Comments on: Why filmmakers might switch from Macs to PCs in 2010 http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/ NoFilmSchool is a site for DIY filmmakers and independent creatives. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:26:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: With a New Final Cut Pro on the Way, and New MacBook Pros with Thunderbolt, Apple Pro is Back | NoFilmSchool http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-70851 With a New Final Cut Pro on the Way, and New MacBook Pros with Thunderbolt, Apple Pro is Back | NoFilmSchool Sat, 26 Feb 2011 04:40:28 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-70851 [...] division of Apple “back,” if they never went anywhere? Well, a year ago I posted about why filmmakers might switch from Macs to PCs — or at least from Final Cut Pro to Premiere Pro. In the year since, many DSLR editors have [...] [...] division of Apple “back,” if they never went anywhere? Well, a year ago I posted about why filmmakers might switch from Macs to PCs — or at least from Final Cut Pro to Premiere Pro. In the year since, many DSLR editors have [...]

]]> By: Koo http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-66336 Koo Sun, 31 Oct 2010 20:11:22 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-66336 Great, I'll check it out. Great, I’ll check it out.

]]> By: Dave Dugdale http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-66327 Dave Dugdale Sun, 31 Oct 2010 03:09:56 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-66327 Ryan, I am making the switch from Vegas to PPro and kind of documenting my journey. Ryan, I am making the switch from Vegas to PPro and kind of documenting my journey.

]]> By: Paolo Tramannoni http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-65397 Paolo Tramannoni Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:56:26 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-65397 What I cannot really understand is: with the Production Premium suite costing about 1700 USD (exluding tax), why is the price of the Mac or PC so important? If you can really save on a PC, it will be a small percentage of the total price. In addition, maybe in the USA things are different, but here in Italy 800 USD will buy a PC without Firewire 800 or eSata ports, the slowest processor, and a mere 2 or 3 GB of RAM. Hardly enough to run Premiere. If I really couldn't spend for ad editing suite, I would stay with the cheapest software (like iMovie or MovieMaker) and the cheapest Mac or PC, without even thinking to matters like the Mercury Engine or After Effects. Paolo What I cannot really understand is: with the Production Premium suite costing about 1700 USD (exluding tax), why is the price of the Mac or PC so important? If you can really save on a PC, it will be a small percentage of the total price.

In addition, maybe in the USA things are different, but here in Italy 800 USD will buy a PC without Firewire 800 or eSata ports, the slowest processor, and a mere 2 or 3 GB of RAM. Hardly enough to run Premiere.

If I really couldn’t spend for ad editing suite, I would stay with the cheapest software (like iMovie or MovieMaker) and the cheapest Mac or PC, without even thinking to matters like the Mercury Engine or After Effects.

Paolo

]]> By: Apple Snubs Adobe Again with New Mac Pros - NoFilmSchool http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-65204 Apple Snubs Adobe Again with New Mac Pros - NoFilmSchool Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:37:37 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-65204 [...] hackintosh. Or, you know, thanks to some other Mac issues with editing, perhaps it’s time to switch to a PC.I’m just thinking out loud here, and while I’d rather not spend so much time talking [...] [...] hackintosh. Or, you know, thanks to some other Mac issues with editing, perhaps it’s time to switch to a PC.I’m just thinking out loud here, and while I’d rather not spend so much time talking [...]

]]> By: The iPhone 4 Does Not “Change Everything Again” - NoFilmSchool http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-64756 The iPhone 4 Does Not “Change Everything Again” - NoFilmSchool Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:23:18 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-64756 [...] gone without an update (inclusive of its ancestor the Power Mac). I’ve already talked about filmmakers switching to PCs this year because of Adobe CS5 — or at least switching from Apple to Adobe software — so I was [...] [...] gone without an update (inclusive of its ancestor the Power Mac). I’ve already talked about filmmakers switching to PCs this year because of Adobe CS5 — or at least switching from Apple to Adobe software — so I was [...]

]]> By: Native DSLR editing in Premiere Pro CS5 « NoFilmSchool http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-64470 Native DSLR editing in Premiere Pro CS5 « NoFilmSchool Wed, 12 May 2010 22:43:37 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-64470 [...] the exodus I spoke of begins. In Final Cut there is no way to edit DSLR footage without transcoding. In Premiere Pro CS5, [...] [...] the exodus I spoke of begins. In Final Cut there is no way to edit DSLR footage without transcoding. In Premiere Pro CS5, [...]

]]> By: William http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-64187 William Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:25:17 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-64187 Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, goes out, buys a PC and throws their Macs off a roof, check this out: http://www.macnn.com/articles/10/04/18/earlier.layoffs.from.support.not.development/ (If it's true that is) Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, goes out, buys a PC and throws their Macs off a roof, check this out:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/10/04/18/earlier.layoffs.from.support.not.development/

(If it’s true that is)

]]> By: Apple is getting a bit dickish « NoFilmSchool http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-64108 Apple is getting a bit dickish « NoFilmSchool Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:02:34 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-64108 [...] duality is one of the reasons I wrote earlier this year that I might switch to a PC. After thinking about it some more, I realized that it’s probably not going to happen (if [...] [...] duality is one of the reasons I wrote earlier this year that I might switch to a PC. After thinking about it some more, I realized that it’s probably not going to happen (if [...]

]]> By: Redenen voor filmmakers on te switchen van de Mac naar PC « Filming with digital camera http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-64044 Redenen voor filmmakers on te switchen van de Mac naar PC « Filming with digital camera Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:44:35 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-64044 [...] Redenen voor filmmakers on te switchen van de Mac naar PC By wimhendriks Waarom filmmakers zouden overschakelen naar de PC staat in nofilmschool.com. [...] [...] Redenen voor filmmakers on te switchen van de Mac naar PC By wimhendriks Waarom filmmakers zouden overschakelen naar de PC staat in nofilmschool.com. [...]

]]> By: Ryan http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63943 Ryan Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:10:45 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63943 Guys, I totally agree with you; no one is going to build an OPTIMAL editing workstation for $1k. However, a lot of people only have a grand to spend, and my point is: this year, with a judicious GPU selection one can get a whole LOT of editing machine for $1k -- a lot more than ever before. And this is primarily because of GPU acceleration. Dan, CPUs definitely still matter but their cost curve goes up a lot when you reach the upper-end. Say someone's shooting on RED, is it better to save money and go for the cheapest quad-core CPU and then splurge on a <a href="http://www.red.com/store/100-0012" rel="nofollow">RED ROCKET</a>, or spend the money on a octo-core CPU? Sure, the ROCKET is $4,750. But you can spend $3,300 on Mac Pro CPU upgrades alone! I'm just looking at the writing on the wall, and that is that CPUs matter less when they're given help, and there are an increasing number of options out there to do this. One final thing: one of the main points of this post should've been HACKINTOSH. My bad for not focusing on that. Guys, I totally agree with you; no one is going to build an OPTIMAL editing workstation for $1k. However, a lot of people only have a grand to spend, and my point is: this year, with a judicious GPU selection one can get a whole LOT of editing machine for $1k — a lot more than ever before. And this is primarily because of GPU acceleration.

Dan, CPUs definitely still matter but their cost curve goes up a lot when you reach the upper-end. Say someone’s shooting on RED, is it better to save money and go for the cheapest quad-core CPU and then splurge on a RED ROCKET, or spend the money on a octo-core CPU? Sure, the ROCKET is $4,750. But you can spend $3,300 on Mac Pro CPU upgrades alone!

I’m just looking at the writing on the wall, and that is that CPUs matter less when they’re given help, and there are an increasing number of options out there to do this.

One final thing: one of the main points of this post should’ve been HACKINTOSH. My bad for not focusing on that.

]]> By: Dan http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63942 Dan Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:24:15 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63942 You make some interesting points, but the reality is, if it's speed you're after, you're not going to be able to buy or build a dual CPU, quad core i7 or Xeon machine for $800 or anything close. CPUs still matter. Bigtime. Not everything Adobe is building is hyper-accelerated for the GPU. Not only that but Nvidia plans to bring its new line of Fermi cards to Mac, and ATI the same with its latest wares sometime in the first half of 2010. It IS true that there will never be *as many* GPU options for Mac as PC, but you can easily update the firmware on many PC cards and make them work on a Mac too. Point being there are many ways to obtain good workstation performance on OS X or Win 7, but none of them cost only $800, or even $1000. Really efficient rendering and multi-tasking performance costs real money, simple as that. And for those buying into any computer-maker's marketing hype about "editing on a laptop", you're bound to be disappointed. Of all the options out there, laptop GPUs, CPUs and RAM throughput, suck the worst by a wide margin. Even the fancy laptops. Edit on a workstation. Even if you have to spend more time driving back and forth from a shoot, you'll still save time in the end analysis. That's especially true of HD footage, RED footage, etc. Finally, don't forget OpenCL, which is a GPU technology Apple pioneered with Nvidia. Don't think Apple is selling the farm because of what Jobs said. They may or may not keep up with Final Cut, but if they don't they certainly won't stop selling computers or trying to make them more price competitive. You make some interesting points, but the reality is, if it’s speed you’re after, you’re not going to be able to buy or build a dual CPU, quad core i7 or Xeon machine for $800 or anything close.

CPUs still matter. Bigtime. Not everything Adobe is building is hyper-accelerated for the GPU. Not only that but Nvidia plans to bring its new line of Fermi cards to Mac, and ATI the same with its latest wares sometime in the first half of 2010. It IS true that there will never be *as many* GPU options for Mac as PC, but you can easily update the firmware on many PC cards and make them work on a Mac too. Point being there are many ways to obtain good workstation performance on OS X or Win 7, but none of them cost only $800, or even $1000. Really efficient rendering and multi-tasking performance costs real money, simple as that.

And for those buying into any computer-maker’s marketing hype about “editing on a laptop”, you’re bound to be disappointed. Of all the options out there, laptop GPUs, CPUs and RAM throughput, suck the worst by a wide margin. Even the fancy laptops. Edit on a workstation. Even if you have to spend more time driving back and forth from a shoot, you’ll still save time in the end analysis. That’s especially true of HD footage, RED footage, etc. Finally, don’t forget OpenCL, which is a GPU technology Apple pioneered with Nvidia. Don’t think Apple is selling the farm because of what Jobs said. They may or may not keep up with Final Cut, but if they don’t they certainly won’t stop selling computers or trying to make them more price competitive.

]]> By: Steven http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63941 Steven Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:11:25 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63941 Hardware acceleration is already here. If you haven't tasted real time editing, you're in for a treat. Get or build a cheap PC with the fastest i7 processor you can afford, add tons of RAM and a whole lot of connected storage, stir in a screaming ATI video card. Run CS4 Production Premium on Windows 7 Ultimate, and when you can, drop in a Matrox RT X2 card. Savor the experience of hardware-accelerated speed changes and scaling, tons of effects, transitions, keying and color correction and - very little rendering, and faster encodes. Add your ideas, season to taste and enjoy! Hardware acceleration is already here. If you haven’t tasted real time editing, you’re in for a treat. Get or build a cheap PC with the fastest i7 processor you can afford, add tons of RAM and a whole lot of connected storage, stir in a screaming ATI video card. Run CS4 Production Premium on Windows 7 Ultimate, and when you can, drop in a Matrox RT X2 card. Savor the experience of hardware-accelerated speed changes and scaling, tons of effects, transitions, keying and color correction and – very little rendering, and faster encodes. Add your ideas, season to taste and enjoy!

]]> By: Ryan http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63718 Ryan Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:59:28 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63718 Nick, thanks -- I could go either way but really what it comes down to is what boat I'm in when CS5 comes out, both in terms of the production I'm currently working on and, of course, the money boat. I also think a factor in choosing an editing machine will be whether Adobe enables GPU acceleration on mobile chipsets; most recently they've said "no" but I wonder if that will change given the release of more powerful mobile cards. I've managed fine with editing on a laptop but if Adobe sticks to desktop-only cards I'd have a hard time justifying another laptop. We'll see! Nick, thanks — I could go either way but really what it comes down to is what boat I’m in when CS5 comes out, both in terms of the production I’m currently working on and, of course, the money boat. I also think a factor in choosing an editing machine will be whether Adobe enables GPU acceleration on mobile chipsets; most recently they’ve said “no” but I wonder if that will change given the release of more powerful mobile cards. I’ve managed fine with editing on a laptop but if Adobe sticks to desktop-only cards I’d have a hard time justifying another laptop. We’ll see!

]]> By: Nick http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63711 Nick Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:37:44 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63711 I just want to say I'm exactly in the same boat as your Ryan. I've had my MacBook Pro since 2007 and love it. But with today's throughput in video post production I am definitely moving up soon to a new machine. What I can tell you is that is definitely going to be a Mac. Your article makes very good points, price is a factor. It always has been with Apple, but the same thing made me go out and buy a MacBook Pro in 2007 versus a PC and spend all that more money is the same thing that is going to happen when I buy a new Mac again, this time around. It's not only the hardware, it's the software. Yes Apple is a mobile devices company, but what they really do is software. Without that, the iPhone, iPad and Macs are nothing. Anything from Final Cut Studio to the new Aperture 3 with video support is what makes a Mac a Mac. And yes, hackintosh is a solution, but I would rather have peace of mind and spend the money. In terms of realistic options where does that leave a guy like you and me? Well, let me put it this way, I'm not swimming in a sea of money either, but I know what my priorities are. Besides the world of filmmaking, my computer encapsulates my life, from pictures, to connecting, to watching tv shows, movies, music, web, games, etc... I love the hub that a Mac has brought to me that I love. Can you do all that with a PC? Sure. Can you do it the same way? I don't think so. In that regard, I see that extra few hundred dollars as a sound investment in a Mac, and as you said your MacBook Pro was a work horse, your next Mac will be too. iMac 27'' with core i7 is done better than the current base Model Quand AND Octo-core Mac Pros. It's $2000, I mean, seriously? This would've been a dream, two, hell, even one year ago. On a separate note, I absolutely love your site, I'm sendin it out to all my contact list and facebook. Keep up the great work, thanks for givin back to fellow filmmakers, trust me it'll all come back to you. I just want to say I’m exactly in the same boat as your Ryan.

I’ve had my MacBook Pro since 2007 and love it. But with today’s throughput in video post production I am definitely moving up soon to a new machine. What I can tell you is that is definitely going to be a Mac.

Your article makes very good points, price is a factor. It always has been with Apple, but the same thing made me go out and buy a MacBook Pro in 2007 versus a PC and spend all that more money is the same thing that is going to happen when I buy a new Mac again, this time around.

It’s not only the hardware, it’s the software. Yes Apple is a mobile devices company, but what they really do is software. Without that, the iPhone, iPad and Macs are nothing. Anything from Final Cut Studio to the new Aperture 3 with video support is what makes a Mac a Mac. And yes, hackintosh is a solution, but I would rather have peace of mind and spend the money.

In terms of realistic options where does that leave a guy like you and me? Well, let me put it this way, I’m not swimming in a sea of money either, but I know what my priorities are. Besides the world of filmmaking, my computer encapsulates my life, from pictures, to connecting, to watching tv shows, movies, music, web, games, etc… I love the hub that a Mac has brought to me that I love. Can you do all that with a PC? Sure. Can you do it the same way? I don’t think so. In that regard, I see that extra few hundred dollars as a sound investment in a Mac, and as you said your MacBook Pro was a work horse, your next Mac will be too.

iMac 27” with core i7 is done better than the current base Model Quand AND Octo-core Mac Pros. It’s $2000, I mean, seriously? This would’ve been a dream, two, hell, even one year ago.

On a separate note, I absolutely love your site, I’m sendin it out to all my contact list and facebook. Keep up the great work, thanks for givin back to fellow filmmakers, trust me it’ll all come back to you.

]]> By: Mike http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63647 Mike Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:58:18 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63647 BTW I'm talking a dual boot hackintosh, it wouldn't be smart to create it Mac only and rely fully on that. BTW I’m talking a dual boot hackintosh, it wouldn’t be smart to create it Mac only and rely fully on that.

]]> By: Mike http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63646 Mike Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:53:44 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63646 Well for the $900 you will spend anyways configuring a good editing machine, there is no reason not to create a hackintosh. If your configuring skills are questionalble usually you can give it to your companies IT guy as they love to build these kind of things. Not only is it good to have but you can usually shut up any Mac fanboyz when you tell them this is faster than any Mac out there...not much you can respond to with that. But really they are so much the same that it's pretty idiotic to be preaching about one being better than the other. One IS cheaper than the other though ;) Well for the $900 you will spend anyways configuring a good editing machine, there is no reason not to create a hackintosh. If your configuring skills are questionalble usually you can give it to your companies IT guy as they love to build these kind of things. Not only is it good to have but you can usually shut up any Mac fanboyz when you tell them this is faster than any Mac out there…not much you can respond to with that. But really they are so much the same that it’s pretty idiotic to be preaching about one being better than the other. One IS cheaper than the other though ;)

]]> By: Ryan http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63643 Ryan Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:24 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63643 Good point Mike -- I should've mentioned the hackintosh aspect of cheap PCs. Build a cheap PC and install OS X on it... have your cake and eat it too. Lifehacker's got a great tutorial on this for anyone who's wondering: <a href="http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2009/09/how-to-build-a-hackintosh-with-snow-leopard-start-to-finish/" rel="nofollow">How To Build A Hackintosh With Snow Leopard, Start To Finish</a> Good point Mike — I should’ve mentioned the hackintosh aspect of cheap PCs. Build a cheap PC and install OS X on it… have your cake and eat it too.

Lifehacker’s got a great tutorial on this for anyone who’s wondering:

How To Build A Hackintosh With Snow Leopard, Start To Finish

]]> By: Mike http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63638 Mike Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:25 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63638 I just built a hackintosh and it is as powerful as the fastest Mac. I do use FCP once in a while for things that haven't been created on the PC side (Plural Eyes etc), but I find myself editing more on the PC side. I haven't done a comparison test but PC just seems faster and more choices on third party stuff. It's really not much of a difference beyond that and I have to say a PC is a hell of a lot cheaper. I just built a hackintosh and it is as powerful as the fastest Mac. I do use FCP once in a while for things that haven’t been created on the PC side (Plural Eyes etc), but I find myself editing more on the PC side. I haven’t done a comparison test but PC just seems faster and more choices on third party stuff. It’s really not much of a difference beyond that and I have to say a PC is a hell of a lot cheaper.

]]> By: Ryan http://nofilmschool.com/2010/02/why-filmmakers-might-switch-from-macs-to-pcs-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-63597 Ryan Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:51:50 +0000 http://nofilmschool.com/?p=1059#comment-63597 Uh, yeah dude. Uh, yeah dude.

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