October 23, 2012

Canon 5D Mark III Getting Uncompressed HDMI in Official Firmware Update

That's right, Canon is going to be giving users clean HDMI in a future firmware update for the 5D Mark III, and it's not coming from the hardworking folks at Magic Lantern. Canon has innovated in some ways in the DSLR space, but they have made a clear distinction between their video and photography product lines. Lack of clean HDMI is a feature their competition already has -- namely Nikon and Sony, who both have cameras with clean HDMI -- with the Nikon D800 being the first full-frame camera out of the gate with a fully uncompressed 1080p. Obviously Canon has a plan for announcing this now, the only question is, when will you actually be able to get it?

Here is a bit from their press release about the announcement, which will also include new AF improvements:

Uncompressed HDMI Output Support

When shooting video, HDMI Output makes possible the recording of high-definition uncompressed video data (YCbCr 4:2:2, 8 bit) from the EOS 5D Mark III to an external recorder via the camera's HDMI terminal. This, in turn, facilitates the editing of video data with minimal image degradation for greater on-site workflow efficiency during motion picture and video productions. Additionally, video being captured can be displayed on an external monitor, enabling real-time, on-site monitoring of high-definition video during shooting.

 

Improved AF Functionality

Even when the EOS 5D Mark III is equipped with an extender and lens making possible a maximum aperture of f/8, the firmware update supports AF employing the camera's central cross-type points (currently compatible with maximum apertures up to f/5.6). Accordingly, the update will allow users to take advantage of AF when shooting distant subjects, benefitting sports and nature photographers, particularly when using telephoto lenses.

The new firmware update will be available, at no charge, in April 2013 from the Canon U.S.A. website and can be downloaded by end users or through Canon Factory Service Centers.

Yes, you're reading that right, you won't be able to get the 8-bit 4:2:2 clean HDMI firmware until April 2013. Canon must really love making people wait, or maybe they think users are planning on jumping ship if they don't feel like the company is supporting them? While telling users they will get a certain feature is usually comforting, I can't help but think that the capability to really make this work could be done right now. Magic Lantern, with its limited resources, has proven that these cameras are capable of far more features than have been initially included. Either because of compatibility concerns or concerns over keeping their product lines separate, the Mark III was not given some of these key video features that the competition has decided to include right from the start.

Still, it's good news, no question, for those who would rather not play around with third party firmware. It's not going to magically turn the camera into a C300, but having the extra color space is extremely helpful for color grading, not to mention for those who are trying to do green screen work. You might think, why buy into an external recorder when cameras like the Blackmagic Cinema Camera are including ProRes and RAW internally? If you're going to move to a video camera at some point, the C100 is the next logical step in the Canon line, but with its low 24mbps internal codec, an external recorder would be helpful. That's one way to make your gear grow with you, assuming you've got some Canon lenses and you like the image that is coming out of the Canon cameras.

So why is Canon announcing this now, when we can't get it until next year? There are a couple possibilities, but a good theory might be that they are trying to take away a little of the thunder from whatever Sony is announcing at the end of this month. It's likely going to be a new camera with 4K capabilities that will slot above the F3, and while that's worlds away from a Mark III with clean HDMI, this announcement may get some of the focus back on Canon.

What do you guys think? Are you excited by this announcement? Does this change your opinion about Canon and their support for cameras, or do you feel like this is something Canon should have included in the first place?

Link: Uncompressed HDMI Press Release -- Canon Website

Your Comment

132 Comments

Curious if 422 hdmi will happen on the 6d as well then? same tech basically... something tells me canon won't do that though.

I dunno, on the one hand, its great that this is being offered, on the other hand, it fits in perfectly well with the thesis that canon is gaming its customers.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
dv

I think this is basically them admitting that the 6D's video features are going to be about the same as the current MKIII ones minus the headphone port.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Carlos D

They would have announced it in the press release, of course. The point here is to further differentiate the 5D and 6D.

October 23, 2012

-1
Reply
Swested

Did the release say if it was a full 1080p on the HDMI or a reduced resolution like the 7D? I haven't had the time to investigate.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

I have to imagine they've enabled full resolution, or else it's a completely pointless upgrade.

October 23, 2012

-1
Reply
avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

I'm done with Canon.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
carlos

+1

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
JkMorganChase

Same here. They're too late with BMC on the horizon.
No more toy video for me.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
vincegortho

Implying the BMC is not a toy? HA. Tiny sensor, non-removable battery, unconventional storage medium. Oh, and before you even get one, they ship an updated model.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

Agree buddy, if and when BMC gets their inventory serious , then as of now im in. They have to do more than start shipping cameras from first and second batch loads, because what if you finally do get a BMC and it malfunctions, waiting another month or two for replacement is not at option, but im through with canon and BMC has a new customer when they get it together.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
JkMorganChase

Compared to the results?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
vinceGortho

You forgot to add a toy with 2.5k 12 bit raw output and 13 stop of DR.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Danyyyel

None of those fancy numbers will make your shitty videos any better. The problem with the spec-obsessed, post-DSLR crowd is that that they rely on hardware to compensate for a lack of creativity. There are people out there winning festivals with ancient camcorders, T2is, etc. If you need power, just rent a RED for your project. content > cameras, every time.

October 24, 2012

2
Reply
john jeffreys

An SSD is an "unconventional storage medium"?

Ha. Yeah, CF is so much better for video...

November 1, 2012

1
Reply
Daniel Mimura

canon died for me the day they announced c300 for 20k and then bring the price down after the price announcement of red scarlet. now these kind of tricky news for firmware update in april 2013 is to lure canon users who are looking their options to upgrade or change the company,( including me) why didn't they put the this firmware when canon users were expecting hdmi out and 60p in 5d markIII. instead of supporting the community by providing a descent camera for future they are building a an old 5years strategy plan, people are moving so fast, time has changed. if canon will not do it some one else will,
Like Sony, Panasonic, Nikon and above all black magic every one is listining to there customers except canon, now canon has a big pressure of loosing the existing market share for vdslr, so this news is here on the block to retain the existing customers, i am sorry canon you had your time and now you are beating around the bush, people have moved on or at least decided to move on, who has time to wait till next April for the firmware, canon is still not realizing...... no doubt canon makes amazing sensor i ll always be a fan of canon but simply can not afford the new breed of canon dslrs, when i can get better quality at the lesser amount in other brand cameras. sorry pal you loose.....at least me.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
auri

Canon isn't your pal and they don't care about you, they're too busy selling their cameras by the truckload

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Peter Kelly

Thanks to canon's advocate.

October 23, 2012

1
Reply
auri

Ah yes, disagreeing with you makes me an advocate. Or maybe I just disagree with you POV

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Peter Kelly

That truckload contains very few 5D3s.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
marklondon

Hi auri, absolutely agree it. Canon must be change their strategies and innovation steps, if they really care on their customers.

October 24, 2012

-1
Reply
Aung Aung

Dear Peter Kelly, you are not disagreeing with my pov you are stating canon doesn't care about me, it means you know canons strategy. That's exactly my point is, in fact you are supporting pov. And here all the filmakers who write about topics are much aware about the technological adavencements and are updated like geeks.
If canon doesn't care about us then we as people don't care about canon.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Auri

+100000000000

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Voltaire

+1000000! Canon, the most conservative company in history. They could have had it all, but chose greed instead.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Voltaire

should have been included in the first place, but still a nice gesture to have. i'll be using magic latern before that though.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

April 2013! is this a joke - They are now acting like Microsoft sending PR 6 month out to get credit for something now. Nikon has this now Canon needs this now

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

Canon is past for me. Good cameras though, I just can't get my head around their prices, also with the fact they always have a new camera release doing almost the same thing, however it makes yours look obsolete and cheap in the market.

October 23, 2012

-1
Reply
Marcus

Yes, this is pathetic, but for those of us who own a Mk III it's at least a piece of good news.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Swested

+1

October 24, 2012

1
Reply

Anybody use a D800 with an external recorder on the regular here? Is it worth the workflow?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Carlos D

This is exactly what I am wondering Carlos!

October 23, 2012

1
Reply
Jef Gibbons

Carlos, I believe fstoppers did a review on this exact thing with an Atomos Ninja and d800

October 24, 2012

1
Reply
Kyron

Fstoppers: It was a Ninja 1 and they didn't have the correct Nikon firmware. With the Ninja2 it rocks. If you have the moire filter its very very good. We just shot a national commercial on this rig.

October 24, 2012

1
Reply
marklondon

Good 'ol Canon.. Breakin' it off in our wallets, then subsequently dropping crumbs on the floor so we'll hang out at their feet, lol. Who can afford a 1DC, C100, 300, 500, 5D3, hell... Anything but a rebel? Those are about the only realistically priced Canon cameras on the market. If someone can attain Raw acquisition at 2.5k for $500 cheaper than a 5D3, (yes i know it's a stills camera... But would anybody give a damn about the 5d3 if it weren't for the massive success of the 5d2's filmmaking abilities?) - then praise Canon for throwing us a bone, lmao.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Jeremy

AGREE and even though the BMC may not be a stills camera, the camera still produces amazing stills from video. If Black Magic gets there inventory and shiiit together by Feb then i grabbing 2 Black magic cameras and for stills i will grab a smaller compact cheaper olympus that takes pictures just as good as the hefty non true 1080p 5d 3

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
JkMorganChase

Me too. I am super done with Canon and their dangling the carrot business strategies. But yeah, the HDMI is at least a move in the right direction.

October 23, 2012

-1
Reply
Gene Sung

next year we will maybe see cameras that can do 1080/50p with 4:2:2 internally or maybe something like blackmagic for the same price.. poor canon.. they can´t even release it now .. they just want to keep their sad dslrvideocustomers that are paying money 4 years for the same video quality..

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
matt

Canon is trying to satisfy your guys' needs and y'all STILL complain. HURP DURP I CANT WAIT TILL APRIL 2013 IM TOO IMPERTUNT

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

They're trying to satisfy us? How? By intentionnally crippling features and unlocking them when they feel they're losing too much to the competition? I don't even own a 5D MKIII, but this kind of marketing makes me sick.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
JP Belanger

I've owned two 5Dmark3 and always wondered where the money went.
I sold them both and now own a 60D for video/stills.
Waiting for the blackmagic now.
Canon doesn't give a shit about it's customers. They finally see their offers
falling behind the competition and strategically are playing catch up.
How in the hell is a C100 considered a cinema camera, when it's specs make it sub broadcast standard?

Canon video is gargbage!

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
vincegortho

Because cinema and broadcast are two entirely different things?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

replaced 5DIII with 60D? ofc you will feel like the video is garbage. these are, in my opinion, 2 different hdslrs for video... quality is superb on the 5DIII lol!

October 24, 2012

0
Reply

Not $3400 superb in 2012.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
vinceGortho

The quality is not superb on the 5D3. Yes, it performs better in low light and Aliasing is nearly gone... at the sacrifice of sharpness. But it's still a 720p camera disguised as a 1080p camera with all the bells and whistles of macroblocking and compression artifacts galore!

October 25, 2012

-1
Reply
VINCEGORTHO

I don't think its a matter of just unlocking it, I'll bet at the moment you get 4:2:0 from the HDMI like on the GH3, so Canon has to develop the firmware that allows it to be 4:2:2 and test it to make sure its 100% before they release it to be used on professional jobs, and that is why its going to take so long. It is bad they didn't put it in in the first place though.... I see comments moaning about canon and the 5D3 all the time but when you go and look a hell of a lot of professionals use the 5D3.... I was at a music festival the other weekend and all the videographers were using canon DSLRs, and more than half of those were 5D3s, the only nikon there being used by a pro, was used by a newspaper photographer using old nikkor lenses on it. I see the same thing with the C300, amateurs bash the hell out of it, and pros love it....

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

The people that are on here whining about cameras, are NOT the people that are out using the cameras and actually making content.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

You are so right John! These days is not about cameras anymore, if you have even a T2i you can create some kick-ass footage.
Besides for the price of the 5D mk3 I can rent a C300 with Zeiss glass for two weeks. With new cameras being announced evry weekend renting is still the best. You can always charge the client for renting AND you don't have a camera sitting around your house doing nothing.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Ska

i agree, spec obsessed

October 23, 2012

-1
Reply
Peter Kelly

Renting has ALWAYS been the proper way, haha. It's only with this recent trend of cheap cameras that resemble higher end cameras image-wise where people think its cool to own.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

It doesn't matter if you are or aren't making content. If you enjoy shooting ducks in a park, you are still allowed to have standards for good video.
Worrying about what others are using their equipment for is fucking stupid!

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
vinceGortho

The pixel data is basically 4:4:4 before they compress it. They already have HDMI out for other things. You are talking about a few hundred lines of code, max, to convert to 4:2:2 and shove it into an output buffer.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Asdf

Yes they don't want people to see how nice the image is yet, that's all. C100 might suffer.

Another thing is they might try to get into the external recorder business by then. Why make money for other companies?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Peter

because they are your partners and the c100 purchases will only partially rely on image quality, I'll be buying more for scopes, ergonomics, viewfinder, weight, quick focus

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Ryan

See it's a difficult situation because the C100's internal codec is consumer level (to protect the C300). So you will want an external recorder anyway to get the most from it. And right now the Ninja/Samurai is the direct-to-ProRes option. If you are using a focus puller I suppose they can get the Ninja but otherwise it's already something else to carry. And I already have and need the 5D3 for stills. And a Zacuto EVF.

So while the C100 would be better starting from zero for motion-only work, in my situation I am just adding the Ninja to the 5D3 and hoping this April thing is a joke and they ship the firmware earlier or ML can get rid of the pillarboxes. My rig will be clumsier than a C100 even with a Ninja, and won't have the IQ or RS performance, but it does everything quite well and it's all already here. I suppose I will suffer for a generation until there's a genuine winner out with HFR etc. beating rental value.

I doubt Canon values Atomos or Aja as a partner enough to surrender all the external recorder biz to them. But they might not find it worth the investment.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Peter

I don't think most future c100 owners care about getting the very best out of it they just want decent quality with amazing ergonomics and ease of use, and competitive dr,, it's ideal for daily production.

Canon partnered with at least 6 companies to provide a external recorder for the c500 and none of their other pro cameras are designed for

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Ryan

You've been bitching and moaning for clean HDMI out for years. They give it to you. You still complain. Go shoot a wedding or some ducks, you annoying gear enthusiast.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

what's wrong with shooting weddings? so elitist...=(

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
John E

I agree with john, why are you guys complaining SOOOO much, would you rather not get the feature. Companies are competing and you win, but you're upset, quit being babies and just reap the benefits.

And Vince, I'm guessing you haven't seen what the c300 can do. Its literally amazing from operation to post. So the c100 doesn't have as robust a codec big deal, it has the large majority of its big brothers features at a solid price. Big name films and commercials have cut in 4:2:0 stuff plenty and get broadcast all the time. Whether you like it or not that camera is going to sell of the shelves.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Ryan

It looks like they're really afraid of the competition. They made some really dumb marketing decisions with pricing and the lousy bitrate on the C100. Judging from the comments here, it's going to take mor than a firmware update to win their fans back. Of course it's always good to upgrade an existing camera for free.

George - tshit.de/freshdailies

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

Announcing something 6 months before anyone can get it and everyone complains..

Funny I can think of another company who have done exactly that but they can do no wrong according to some commenters on here!

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Peter Kelly

What is the advantage over this? Meaning it just allows it to have no codec and better/no compression footage. Please could somebody describe the benefits

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Alex James

It allows you to compress the footage however you'd like within an 8-bit and 4:2:2 color space. I go into some of the advantages in the post above.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Somehow, right from the title of this story, I knew there was an ugly catch to it. That is just what I've come to expect from Canon. Nothing ever comes easy. Either the stuff is ridiculously expensive, and when it comes to free firmware, yeah, wait for 6 months.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Bobcat

With all these amazing DSLR blogs (nofilmschool, Bloom, Cheesey, LaForet, Zacuto Shootouts etc) providing almost constant feedback to Canon product designers, it baffles me that Canon has failed to provide that KILLER replacement for the 5D MKII phenomenon! Recently Sony seems to be releasing more creative products with interesting features than Canon at the below $10K price points. I'm hoping some lower priced but improved version of the yet to be released Canon 1DC will be that killer camera that will enable independent filmmakers to SOMEWHAT level the playing field against the Big Boys with their Epics Alexas etc There are certain things a solo filmmaker can do that is beyond the capability of those slow moving big studios...As a Canon shooter I am hoping for something more substantial than this obviously needed belated firmware.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Rob

Canon seems to be turning into the Apple of the film industry. They completely revolutionized the industry with the MKII, and now, while some people swear by their cameras (Philip Bloom), the majority of filmmakers complain about everything they do, even if these people don't use their cameras. All they do is complain.

These comments show that exactly. All Canon did was say "Hey, we're giving our users clean HDMI out!" and then all of a sudden....

"omggg im totaly done with cannon"

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
TehRandax

Are you sure this "majority of filmmakers" complaining about canon are not just amateurs that don't know what they are talking about, posting nonsense comments on blogs? Most professional users (like Philip Bloom, Dan Chung, Shane Hurlbut) that take the time to blog about cameras seem to love canon.... can you post some links to blogs by working professionals that don't like what canon are doing? (And I am asking this as someone looking to buy a DSLR for video purposes)

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

Vincent laforet

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
vinceGortho

He is probably the biggest Canon fanboy there could be. He has just about every L series prime you could get, and he uses the C300 the most.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
TehRandax

He didn't like the 5D3

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
VINCEGORTHO

"But this now becomes the camera of choice for HDSLR videography in my book" - Vincent Laforet
The only thing he seemed really annoyed about was no clean HDMI out.... And re your other comments the 5D3 is a $3400 stills camera that also shoots video, it costs that much because of its AWESOME photographic capabilities... and I am going to tel you the same thing I told John Jeffreys, if I click on your name it doesn't take me to your work...

October 25, 2012

0
Reply

It is just people who don't produce work and just complain. Spec geeks waiting for the perfect camera so they can finally start that short film they had in mind for 4 years. I have my complaints about Canon but I don't crucify them. I use a T2i and it has issues but I try my best to work around them. It works well when you know what it can and can't do. Never will I let it stop me from creating work.

We're spoiled to death. The image out of these Canon cameras are great but these "filmmakers" who only post comments on blogs want Hollywood quality for basically nothing. Now people are saying if BMCC can do it...

I love the BMCC. Definitely my next camera. However, there are several things DSLRs can do that the BMCC can't. Just know your tool and create work. Stop complaining so much. Get what you like and use the hell out of it. Notice most of the pros look at what the camera is good at and play off of its strengths and hide to the best of their ability the faults.

I'm ranting.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

It'll never happen, bro. DSLR's consumerized filmmaking, and brought the never-ever-satisfied mentality to the industry. Every thread about cameras, especially on amateur-oriented websites like NFS, will be full of whiners, nonfilmmakers, and gh2/BMCC fanboys that know nothing about the filmic process and only care about specs.

You asked for the democratization of film, this is what you get.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

Bloom is not a professional, he shoots ducks and horses for fucks sake.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

Yet he manages to afford a C300, an FS700, BOTH an NTG-2 and NTG-3, Litepanels, the 1D-X, Canon L lenses, Zeiss lenses, and a whole lot more.

And no, he wasn't given these things. He's mentioned how he receives prototypes for SOME cameras, but he buys all his sweet stuff with his own cash.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
TehRandax

So you know him personally enough to know to take his word for that , pleaseeeee?

While i will not completely discredit bloom ,because he does give technical insight on camera properties, asthetics, and fuctions (which is not hard to do by the way ) but he does what he does. However phillop bloom in my opion is nothing more than a glorified camera reviewer who just happens to moonlights as a documentary directory from time to time.

Any film maker that cosigns or recommends canons crappy glass ( yes L-series glass included) and praises canon glass that has stabilization should be questioned as a director. FYI if you are a real director , then having image stabilization is the equivalent of a fat person ordering 7 meals with a diet cola. Learn the craft, buy support needed to make a proper film, and if you do not have money for dollies and other euipment , get a tripod, learn mcomposition, use static shots get creative. learn blocking and camera movement, 60 years ago they didnt have image stabilization.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
JkMorganChase

He's far more professional than 9 out of 10 people who post on here. The guy clearly understands the most important aspect of this trade: marketing yourself.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Swested

Surprise surprise, John Jeffries is here with personal attacks. I literally don't think you've ever written something nice here and you write about 5 comments for every single post.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
tobyloc

i love you?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
john jeffreys

lol!

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
tobyloc

There are professionals who just shoot coffee beans and make a fortune with it!

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
gerald

A "professional" is a person who is paid to undertake a specialized set of tasks and to complete them for a fee. wikipedia bro, if you do NOT know what professional means

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
John E

You lost me at Wikipedia...

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Daniel J

Cute comment but P. Bloom got paid by George Lucas to make a short film in Tuscany, and was hired by Adidas to shoot Beckham for a quicky music video on a couple days notice. That's pretty decent professional credibility. Also the ducks he shot in Kauai was communicating a decent concept as a witty visual metaphor...

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Rob

If I said that AMATEURS on this blog were complaining, then I would have been slammed by the butthurt newbies more than I already knew I was.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
TehRandax

Canon is in no way like Apple. Apple's iPod, iPad, iPhone...etc...just happen into prominence through dumb luck. Don't ever forget that that's exactly what happened with Canon and the D-SLR.

November 1, 2012

0
Reply
Daniel Mimura

This is cool if you already own a Mk.III. Means keep it even if you're going to get a new camera to be your A cam.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply

Its a great thing I thought and then I saw the timeline - April 2013, is that an early April fool ?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Jim

Ninja please.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Peter

can anybody explain to me how 8-bit 4:2:2 is 'uncompressed'?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
dixter

Talking out of the side of my ass here but I believe uncompressed just means the image data hasn't been written onto any codec at any bitrate yet. However Canon chose to let the HDMI output read color space from the sensor doesn't really make a difference as to whether or not it can be called compressed.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
carlos d

Color space compression is not the same as codec compression, that's the distinction.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

In case anyone cares, I'd like to cut through the black-and-white mentality that seems to be coming out in the arguments above. Yes, I feel preachy.

This news is good. A camera like the 5DIII with 4:2:2 uncompressed HDMI out is, frankly, fantastic at the price.

However. There's no reason it couldn't be A) even better, and B) a few months ago, apart from Canon's attitude towards it's customers. I don't appreciate that side of it, and there's no need to defend them on that. One can criticize some aspects and like others; stop playing the false dichotomy card.

Finally, can we PLEASE stop with the idea that "people who complain about this aren't shooting"? That's straight-up bollocks, and it's one of the most common forms of fallacious argument all over the internet, whether you're talking cameras or anything else.

You can be shooting and desire something better. You can be shooting and be fed up with Canon, while still loving your current Canon camera for what it is. You can be shooting and still find the 30 seconds it takes to express an opinion on the internet.

/rant

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Luke

hi ... question here: what's the difference, if any, between the clean hdmi that magic lantern has just announced for mkiii, and the clean hdmi that canon is promising for next april ..... what am i missing? f you don't want to wait till april, wouldn't you jump on the magic lantern hack now ? thanks in advance for answers .....

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
timeoutofmind

the difference to my understanding is that the magic lantern firmware/hack is not a complete solution to uncompressed video. I'm hearing that there are black bars and that basically the end result image/video has to be stretched in post. In my opinion that is just too much work and at the same time, you have some people who worry about voided warranties of a $3,500 camera and i understand, especially relating to universies, schools, and colleges who dont have the luxury to thake that chance. Canon is basically saying once you update with their firmware you simply have an external recorder and grab to include in your work flow, no extra streneous post stuff needed.

ALL in all , i was considering a 6d, but as of know, its forget canon completely and im going with 2 BMC cameras and maybe a gh3 or d600 for production.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
JkMorganChase

How much do you want to bet ML will get their hands on this firmware and basically push the full version long before Canon's official 6 month artificial deadline?

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Swested

Well said.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Marcello

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. A 6 month advanced notice of a firmware update. How silly is that? Just release the firmware now and stop playing that stupid game. What's next? "In year 2015, we'll upgrade the firmware to have...." Canon always plays mega safe, mega conservative and doesn't do it for the sake of the customers, they do it to save their own arse. Japanese bureaucracy at its best.

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Philip

I Guess this is going to make us all better film maker..... we can move on from this and cry about something else... REALLY GUYS IS THIS BIG OF A DEAL?????????

October 23, 2012

0
Reply
Alvin

That time April 2013, all brands camera can shoot 10bit 1080P 60fps raw except Canon.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Aung Aung

I am going to preemptively complain that those cameras aren't shooting in 4k 120fps for $300.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
David S.

April Fools!

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Chad Hustlington

I think people are entitled to complain should they be amateurs or professional. Many have invested in Canon gear the last four years since the 5d mark2 and have made Canon what it is today, that is a market leader in large sensor video camera. It is the low budget crowd that have put Canon where it is. It is not the people that would pay $ 10K+ that made Canon what it is today in the video world. But the gift/upgrade path from Canon to those customers was a complete set of Cameras that out of there range.

It is normal that these people are frustrated by Canon. Every new model seems to come with some limitation/crippling and price hike like the C100 has no high frame rate mode found in $ 700 t2i. A C100 type camera with at least 60fps 720p at $ 5k would have been a perfect upgrade bath to all these customers, who again have contributed to Canon success.

More so, when every competitor from Nikon to Sony at the $ 3k range are giving better feature at much lower prices.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Danyyyel

CANON is the equivalent of APPLE, with the exception that APPLE does not have a higher end hardware computer for true professional video editing, but other than that they are the same. A company fanboys generated off old achievements of yester year. The iphone just like the 5d mark 2 /7d were amazing years ago, but since then the iphone and cameras from canon have seen little improvements technology wise. Meanwhile canon just like APPLE spoon feeds older technology with minor enhancements in new bodies to appease to hungry fanboy appetites while crippiling it just a enough to protect its higher end line. An I.E would be the ipad mini.

The ipad mini for 320 , the only reason it is not 300 is because APPLE would not be able to justify paying 300 for a smaller ipod at same price. Canon could easiy come out with a 3500 dollar camcorder with xlr but they know better

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
JkMorganChase

As for me I think that the days have passed for all those dslr. Looking at the Black magic footage, I think I am making my mind. The dof is enough for me, shooting really wide is not good for features because of the distortion (makes very amateurish) and the the tokina 11-16 will be wide enough for me and I am a studio photographer so low light/no light is not my style. Good 1600 is enough for me.

I think a company like BMC needs filmmakers support and they will get mine. No more to think about moire/aliasing, low bitrate etc. I get back to the medium I am use too with high quality jpeg or Raw like with my Nikon cameras as with the BMC prores and raw output. Until the supply issue is sorted out, I will put some money aside and still use my D800 and gh2 for video.

If the BMC is as very good success, I am sure that we will find a S35 version in the next 2 years. That is why, as people invested in Canon for video, we should now move to the BMC at least for filmaking. It will yields its dividend with such a company.

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Danyyyel

I've never used an external recorder before. Wondering if anyone who has could tell me: will clean HDMI + external recorder allow you to bypass the 30 minute recording time on the Mk3? Or does the camera actually have to be rolling at the same time in order to capture to an external recorder?

October 24, 2012

0
Reply

Another query for anyone who can help... does this mean that a MkIII + external recorder will become "broadcast legal", in terms of BBC specs?

November 3, 2012

0
Reply

I'm so sick and tried of this. Canon comes out with something that is good and people still complain. Its a camera that's its, a block of metal with buttons that shoots video,its a tool that must be put in the right hands to do what it really can do. If this isn't good for you then go ahead and get a BlackMagic or since most of you think your so bad-ass then you should all just get an Arri or RED or C500. Most of the people hear not only couldn't make anything better with these cameras they probably couldn't handle these cameras and the amount of work that you must do to handle them. The 5D3 is amazing, its small and in my thoughts, has a good image that does well on the big screen. I've seen it on a 30 foot screen. People forget that it matters who has handled the camera. I have a friend that owns a few 5D3 and a RED EPIC, when its all put into post and fixed its hard to tell what camera did what expect for the known like slow-mo and the GoPro in Shots.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Russell

Then move on with your life and ignore the comments if you're so happy.
As if your post is going to moderate how negatively people feel about the camera.

Maybe we're not attracted to the idea of spending nearly $4k for camera and HDMI recorder for mediocre video. Oh wait, Russell says it's not okay to express that.

Has anyone seen the benefits of HDMI recorded video? Ever since the FS100 was announced to be capable of clean out, I've heard nothing but problems and concerns by those who explored it.
When results are shown side by side or swapped back and forth, compressed vs. uncompressed... nothing.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
vincegortho

Hey if your not happy with spending that kind of money thats fine never said it wasnt, Black Magic has made a great camera and I will pick one up after I have some Hands on with it. HDMI will help those who need it and those who need it know they need it.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Russell

You're not going to see much of a difference between internal and external recording if you just look at them straight out of the camera. You might see a slight difference, but that's not the point of being able to have uncompressed, the point is that you can actually grade the image without it falling apart, and if you need to pull a key for green screen work, it makes your life that much easier.

As far as the FS100, the issues you are taking about are related to the fact that pretty much all HDMI signals from cameras send out 60i, so the recorder itself has to understand how to do the pulldown in order to get you back to 24p or whatever frame rate you are shooting at, otherwise you have to do that in post.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Clear Canon's continuous consumer's manipulation.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Otavio

I find this ironic how this news occur right on Magic Lanterns news. Well its great that they actually allow it now, so congrats to 5D users.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Xiong

Only 8 bit? Is it a stream coming straight off the sensor? will DR be higher or are we basically getting an uncompressed version of the same files on the CF card?

October 24, 2012

0
Reply

IIRC HDMI can only handle 8 bit 60i 422 which will give you 11 stops of DR with a standard sRGB gamma (you can try to extend it with Cinestyle if you want, but you may get banding in the mid tones from the limited bit depth). The sensor at ISO 1600 could theoretically do more stops once downsampled but there isn't going to be a way to get that out of the camera in realtime. HD-SDI can do it and it's conceivable ML could do it to the cards but at some point you have reached decreasing returns.

I think 8 bit is acceptable, the noise will be much finer recording direct to ProRes 422HQ and exposing for the highlights some added NR in post ought to give a fine result in most any situation. The C100 won't be able to do more than 8 bit in any configuration though it will have a built-in log gamma that may suffer from the same problems as Cinestyle on the 5D3. The BMCC is what you want if you care deeply about formats above all else under $10K. I'm sticking with the 5D3 for now.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
Peter

Since the c100 has a lut that retains full dynamic range log won't do much anyway

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Ryan

i don´t understand why all people are running for the black magic camera. i mean what projects do you do where somebody pays you this crazy workflows like 500gb per hour? i earn my money with filming and photografing and i never have customers you even would see the difference between the 5d and the bmc and if they would see a difference they would not pay much more for the work because i need a raid system with terabytes of space. i mean 3000€ for uncompressed raw video is great but 500gb per hour is just not working. compressed video is great, the only thing i would love to see from canon is a constant bitrate in the mk3 because in some situations the nitrate falls to 40mbit. 90 mbits you only get when you film wideangle, bright light and you move the camera like crazy. but recording under let´s say 100gb per hour is good for me...

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
benjolino

We shoot a lot of DSLR, but if your clients don't know the difference, you need better clients.
I think having both cams will be the way to go.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
marklondon

You're ignoring one of the biggest advantages of the BMCC, which is its ability to shoot ProRes...especially ProRes LOG, which basically makes it like a baby Alexa. I personally don't think uncompressed raw is very useful, but that's kinda beside the point when you can get 10-bit ProRes LOG with 13 stops of DR instead of super compressed 8-bit H264 with 11 stops of DR.

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Gabe

Yes people always forget , more so intentionaly omit the high quality intraframe prores/dnxhd mode, that ar are editors friendly and much better quality that the low bandwidth dslr codec. You can also covert very efficiently in cineform raw to 5.1 and lower if you still want to keep working in raw.

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Danyyyel

i´m not a canon fanboy, but somebody wj´ho has a lot of canon glass and need a camera to work with day to day. but you get quite a lot with the 5d mark3, not only a very good stills camera. i work with it since half a year and had the mk2 since spring 2009 and i really don´t want my 5dmark2 back. a few weeks ago we did a documentary of an old paper flower factory and used both, the mk2 and the mk3. that was the point where i really saw how much better the mk3 is in video mode. when the update comes out i will surely try to record external and decide if it´s worth the money and the stress for me. i could imagine the there will be less digital noise in the darks. that would be great. also the bitrate wouldn´t fall down so often which cause really ugly artifact especially in high iso shots with a lot of dark areas.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
benjolino

one more thing. this year a was thinking about buying me a fs100 because i had a a big videojob for 3 month. i thought i could keep the mk2 and buy a fs100 that would have cost me 6000 bugs. i need a stills cam cause i do photo jobs. that seemed to i bit much money and i know in one year maybe i want something else. so i decided to sell the mk2 for 1000 bugs and buy a mk3 for 3500 bugs. that cost me 2500 bugs. i saved 3500 bugs. nice story, hm.

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
benjolino

I can't believe people are still defending Canon! Imagine you have delivered a promo video to a client. Then you send them an email saying:
"I am pleased to announce that I didn't use the best shots in the promo. I have a much better edit which I have completed already. And you can have it for free! But not until April 2013. You should also know that all the work I've done for you since 2008 I have made deliberately sub-standard. I have done this to justify charging higher prices on work I produce for different clients."
Would that be acceptable?

October 24, 2012

0
Reply
TiCa

Haha. It's funny cos it's true.

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Marcello

Maybe it works like this at Canon HQ.
Worker: I've completed the report on the flooding in Thailand.
Manager: What's wrong with the last five pages?
Worker: I've printed them smaller and overlaid them with red dots. If you want to read them please double my salary.
Manager: What the hell???
Six months later:
Worker: Boss, good news! You can have the last five pages of the report without raising my salary! But not until April 2013.
Manager: [other Nofilmschool commenters please complete]

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
TiCa

Manager: Dear Worker, hereby we terminate your contract immediately.

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Spanic

i think you miss understood me. for some jobs is just not necessary to film in 422. for one client i did photos with a phase one middle format camera with a hasselblad body with 65 mp. normaly they do small prints or things for the web. it´s just not necessary for them, that i use this kind of camera. i still can use it, but they wont pay it. so most of the jobs the 5d is enough. and for a 720p image video for the web even the mk2 is enough. that´s why i´m asking, which jobs do you do where it´s worth using the bmc? and what do say to you clients why you really have to use the bmc? and by the way, i don´t produce shit. what do you produce? anything?

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
benjolino

The 5d is not the point of marginally utility for the web, what are you nuts?!

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
Ryan

benjolino: my post was not a reply to your comment. Just adding to the whole discussion, trying to have a laugh at the situation.

October 25, 2012

0
Reply
TiCa

I use Canon because I like Canon glass but I do have to say I am not fond of many decisions they make. especially now that I have crossed over to video from only stills it seems that with canon it's either overkill or under done they are really stingy about adding features to their cameras without their competition's success proding them up the kazoo.

October 28, 2012

0
Reply
Gary Simmons

If I ever am handed a DSLR to run with a Hypershuttle or other HDMI/HD-SDI recorder I would only be shooting certain things uncompressed. Documentary stuff would just throw it on the SD/CF card...not going to be pulling colors around like crazy. Now if I was shooting one of my short films where I have complete control over the environment and want the absolute best quality I would no doubt be using an external recording deck...one of my next projects I plan on doing is going to have HEAVY color grading and I already know my Canon 550D's H.264 output is not going to hold up that well even being upped to 100+mbps then put in ProRes 422. Canon needs to hop on the 10-bit 4:2:2 train...12-bit would be even better....4:2:2 is perfect and 10-bit gives me that extra bit of edge (pun intended!). Gotta get off this 8-bit 4:2:0 crap...it hasn't changed enough...we have a Codec that can do it in AVC esk style too! Its called AVC-Intra...but for now I just hope more than the 5D MkIII gets the ability to output uncompressed. Positives are that the color space not being as subsampled is good for allot of effects but 10 or 12bit would be ideal...maybe Canon will surprise us...who knows...Im off now, gotta go grade some BMCC footage for fun XD XD

November 16, 2012

0
Reply
Nate O

I've worked with some very high profile clients, and this year that continues. What you shoot on doesn't particularly cross many clients minds. Apart from the FILM industry, and if your making good money from the film industry, I dare say you have that much interest in forums like this. Doesn't teach you anything. When you're speaking to marketing directors etc they don't have that much of a technical knowledge, if any. They might know the 5Dmkii quiet openly because it's completely confusing to why you would use a stills camera to shoot video. It sticks in the mind and most of them know and see the results it can achieve. For web, for HD playback, the results can be be good or bad depending how professional you are. However what you shoot on is one element to the business. And for the amount of chippy operations looking to shoot 4K to downscale to 1080 and upload to vimeo or whatever..having resort to using cheap plastic lenses to afford the rest of production and post production..they're all missing the point.

March 12, 2013

0
Reply
andy_uk

Love all the guys complaining about the 5D instead of moving on with their lives. Don't like Canon or the 5D? Move on. Get something else. Shoot something. Make it look amazing. Put it on youtube. How many of us actually have our stuff shown in a cinema anyway? Do the issues that come with blowing something up 400x really matter to most of us? Does the general public (your viewers) really look at a video and go "Hmmmm.... Seems that only has 10 stops of dynamic range, I'm going to ask for my money back."

No, they don't. They don't care. They want to be entertained and that's it.

There's a lot of hungry "cinematographers" out there...

April 19, 2013

0
Reply
BadGrrmmr

+1

December 26, 2013

0
Reply
John