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RED Cuts EPIC Price in Half: EPIC-X Now $19,000, SCARLET Under $8K, RED ONE Goes 4.5K for $4K

11.1.12 @ 8:17PM Tags : , , , ,

We knew RED was going to respond to the recent announcement from Sony, and respond they have. RED has recouped their initial costs for the EPIC project, and that means they’ve decided to cut the prices on both the EPIC and SCARLET platform (since SCARLET shares many of the same parts as the EPIC). If you’ve been waiting to buy one of these high-end cameras, there hasn’t been a better time than now, especially since RED has created an upgrade path for their new Dragon sensor. They’ve also dropped a serious bomb with a new battle-tested RED ONE MX. Without further ado, click through for the new prices.

This post will be updated as more information is released.

These are the new prices:

  • 5K EPIC-X Brain – $19,000
  • 5K EPIC-X Monochrome Brain – $20,000
  • 5K EPIC-M Brain – $24,000
  • 5K/4K Scarlet Brain – $7,950
  • 4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested – $4000 (includes CF or SSD recording module)

[Update]: Looks like the RED ONE MX with the CF module is sold out, as the page is no longer available. You can always buy the SSD version and the $500 module, which is actually cheaper than if you bought the $4,000 CF and wanted the $1,500 SSD module later.

Here is what Jim said about new pricing in a post on REDUser:

As I said before, everything in the electronics world changes… usually for the better, cheaper and faster. EPIC and Scarlet just did. Right now.

We have built an incredibly efficient factory in Irvine, California and over time learned how to make EPICs in quantity, lowered our assembly costs, found better suppliers and fully paid off our NRE. When we assembled the 1st EPIC camera in Stage 6 at RED Studios Hollywood it took our team 12 hours. It took two more days to de-bug. Today we can assemble an EPIC in 13 minutes and 95+% need no re-work after diagnostics and testing. It is a testament to our manufacturing team and supply chain teams.

Since our costs are now significantly lower we are re-pricing our cameras as of now.

For those of you that purchased a new Scarlet or EPIC brain on or after Oct. 1st 2012, the next time you order accessories from RED you will receive a discount to use towards that purchase. $1000 for Scarlet and $4000 for EPIC. Talk to your Bomb Squad representative when you are ready to use this discount.

Now… here is the new pricing:

5K EPIC-X Brain- $19,000

5K EPIC-X Monochrome Brain- $20,000

5K EPIC-M Brain- $24,000

5K/4K Scarlet Brain- $7,950

4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested- $4000 (includes CF or SSD recording module). The RED ONE is End of Life. Battle tested is all that will be available from here on out.

Due to high anticipated volumes, plan on extended response and processing times.

Dragon sensor upgrade is not included for any EPIC system purchased at the new pricing going forward.

Pricing is being updated on www.red.com as I post this.

So how does this compare to the old prices for just the brain? Here are the comparisons

  • RED EPIC-M: $24,000 vs. $39,500
  • RED EPIC-X: $19,000 vs. $34,500
  • RED SCARLET-X: $7,950 vs. $9,700
  • RED ONE MX: $4,000 vs. $25,000


This is big news for the camera industry. Jim has already said that he appreciated what Sony was doing with their new cameras, but that he didn’t believe they were any competition for the EPIC and SCARLET. Now we know why, and part of it is price. Since they’ve paid off NRE (non-recurring engineering) for the EPIC project, it means that the whole system is currently making money with each new camera they build — which also means they can sell it for less money. This is good for consumers, it means you can enter into the RED system for a lot less money than previously thought, and it also means the new Dragon equipped EPICs should compete price-wise with the new cameras from Sony (without most of the compressed modes of course). This also means we should see some reductions in used camera prices.

Battle-tested RED ONE MXs are a serious contender to Blackmagic and other lower-priced cameras. I don’t think anyone saw that coming. Of course they don’t feature an ND filter and are based on older technology, but you’re getting mostly everything the SCARLET can do (and more since the ONE can do 4.5K) for half the price. They are used, yes, and the boot-up time is longer, but it’s still an amazing deal.

You should keep in mind that the above prices are the brain only, and you’ll still need some accessories to make them work. Also of note, RED had a deal going where if you purchased $50,000 worth of an EPIC camera system, your Dragon upgrade was free. That deal has now ended, but even new EPIC owners will be able to pay $6,000 for a new Dragon sensor upgrade.

You can find the new cameras (including the RED ONE MX) using the link below.

What do you guys think? Will you pull the trigger on an EPIC, SCARLET, or RED ONE MX now?

Links:

COMMENT POLICY

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  • Holy crap. What a time to be a filmmaker. :O

  • Wow, the Red One price drop is INsane. Such a good deal…

  • We live in a mighty fine era.
    Could this signal the beginning of the end of the DSLR Filmmaking era? Or was it started by the BMCC? Where will we be a year from now, in terms of cameras from Canon, Nikon, and other companies that provide cameras?

    So many questions; I can’t wait to discover the answers.

  • Can anyone say “firmware update” for the 5D Mark 3???

    • Jay slocum on 11.1.12 @ 8:30PM

      Wow joe that was fast

      and @ chris that was funny

      saw comparison from another post, Red one looking good, if you are more concered with making a film and less of caring around a heavier camera then RED ONE IS EYE CANDY.

      RED SCARLET VS RED ONE

      Lens mount:
      - RED ONE is PL cine mount with dumb Nikon mount available (the path to Canon mount leads through dangerous woods…)
      - SCARLET can do both PL cine mount or Smart Canon mount (with dumb Nikon of course)
      - so basically it depends on the glass you are planning to use / or you own…

      Speed:
      - RED ONE can do 120 FPS at 2K and 60 FPS at 3K
      - SCARLET can do 120 FPS at 1K and 60 FPS at 2K

      Size:
      - RED ONE is a “monster” – a very large and heavy camera to lug around…
      - SCARLET is tiny in comparison to RED ONE (about 1/3)

      Resolution:
      - RED ONE peaks at 4.5K in wide mode, 4K in 16:9
      - SCARLET can do 5K, albeit at only 12 FPS

      HDRx:
      - RED ONE no can do…
      - SCARLET can – but halves the FPS

      Accessories:
      - You can get cheap used accessories for RED ONE at great prices everywhere
      - SCARLET’s accessories are mostly on backorder (but should be out by end of March)

      - Majtan

  • fuckkkk! RED MX for $4000?????? lol

    I was waiting ofr BMCC… Adios baby! I’m goigo to buy 2 RED MX for that price!!

    MANNNN! This is crazy!

  • Hear that? That’s the sound of hundreds of people cancelling their BMCC pre orders. Seriously, could things get any worse for that camera? This is a dagger!

    • Nah, Blackmagic’s are frikken fine.

      • Nah…they’re not. Watch and see.

      • Jay slocum on 11.1.12 @ 8:59PM

        YEAH but Final cut pro now handles red files natively also, something to consider BMC or RED one decision , decisions

        Just wondering what will be best and quickest work flow between the BMC AND RED ONE. RED one and AJA or samuri

      • Luke, I was thinking the same thing. I think you also canceled your BMCC preorder in place of the BT Red Scarlet deal as I did??…and now THIS has gotta really hurt ‘em. I think a lot of people have been “looking over the fence” at Reds for a long time while trying to find something they could afford. Well now they can.

  • marklondon on 11.1.12 @ 8:29PM

    Ok. I’m in for an EPIC, or a couple of RED ONEs. Can’t argue with that pricing. These are proven filmmaking tools.

  • Does anyone think the Red One is worth buying? Looks like an amazing deal!

    • Are you crazy?? That’s the best deal I possibly think on the universe! I’ve been working with MX for months now. A rented one…

      For that price, now I’m goiong to buy 2 of them… I don’t care for BMCC now. I’m used to RED material and it’s awesome.

      It’s a steal for that price!

    • The MX is a great camera. Buy with confidence. It may be abut big, but its still puts out an equivalent image to the epic in 4k. When dragon drops, that will change, but it will take a full year for all epics to get dragon. For 4k you get something that can hang with the big boys for at least a year if not more. If you can’t make $4000 in a year with it, you have no business owning it. Go for it!!!!!!!!

  • Nice, but isn’t that sensor 3 years old now?

    • Kemalettin on 11.1.12 @ 8:34PM

      its not 1080p :) Have you seen The Social Network and others? you cant do that with F3 F5 5D mark III and other shitty Canon so called cine cameras.

    • It’s a good sensor yet. It’s a proven camera, tested. And you can upgrade the sensor in the future…

    • Jay slocum on 11.1.12 @ 9:05PM

      no it is not it has same sensor as scarlet only weighs more and has a PL mount, so basically you would have to rent or buy expensive Cinema PL mount lens, You could use nikon glass but its a dummy mount still usable though

  • Kemalettin on 11.1.12 @ 8:33PM

    i would like to see classic nofilmschool comments now..Red is dead,Red is gonna Die,New Sony camera gonna bury Red Epic/Scarlet bla bla bullshit..
    So whats happening now Sony and Cannon nothing do :) They cant lower prices insanely like these! lol $4K 4.5K cinema camera..pity for guys who is shooting with DSLRs after today..

  • holy crap. how much would you need to add to a Red One to get it up and running? and would all those parts transfer across to the Epic/Scarlet as well?

    i was thinking of going for a BMCC, but at this price, i just don’t think it can compete.

    • and I wonder how many Ones they’ll have on offer, considering they’re all battle tested and discontinued? they’re gonna go out the door at this rate.

      • There are heaps of cheap RED accessories around these days. I’d strike as early as possible though.
        And 2K should go a LONG way.

        No the parts are not transferrable to Epic scarlet.

        As to how many… I’d get in fast, but it will be a decent number with all the trade ins that ere executed you’d think. But people are going pretty nuts and talking about buying multiples…

  • i´m dead. i´m in a tibetan bardo or i´m still on the effects of salvia? is this true?

  • Holy shit this is crazy! Looks like I’m buying a RED. Wow.

  • annnnnnnnd checkmate. RED wins.

    seriously, the offerings of every other company is just laughable by comparison. canon ESPECIALLY!

  • I remember feeling like I got slapped in my face after red didn’t follow up with their “3k for 3k” announcement years ago. I had pretty much turned my back on red and was planning on purchasing a black magic cinema camera. Now I just don’t know anymore, I think I may have fallen in love with red all over again…. this is like going back to my ex girlfriend after i’ve already made out with the new chick, I feel dirty, and I am, but i’m loving every moment of it!

  • I’m surprised by this. I did not see such a radical price drop coming…
    A Red One for 4k is an incredible deal, particularly with the MX sensor – I’ve shot both and it makes a big difference.
    An Epic X at $19k – incredible times. I think Philip Bloom just placed an order…

  • People who buy these new RED cameras with lower prices, will pay for 6000 dollars for Dragon update.

    About the overall pricing with RED; how about being (here in nofilmschool) honest and doing article how much it really does cost to play with RED stuff…

    There are people right as this moment, who thing they can get 5K Scarlet camera for 8000 dollars and start shooting…

    EPIC-M W/ SIDE SSD AND LENS MOUNT = 27,500 dollars. Add 13 000 dollards for new Prores/H264-module = 40,500 without lenses, batteries etc.

    That 40,500 dollars is the price (without Dragon upgrade !) to get basic camera brain setup that has equal ability with Sony F55.

    It is not that cheap, especially when you add the batteries, RED SSD-cards, display/EVF/control unit etc.

    Fully working RED Epic camera will be easily over 40 000 dollars MINIMUM.

    • You simply…do not know what you’re talking about. Ever heard of buying the essentials and renting the rest of your kit on a per shoot basis until you can add to it? $40k minimum for a working Epic…you sir are ridic.

      • So, everytime you for example need that 3200 dollar RED EVF for Epic you just rent it ?!

        OK.

        • Use a SmallHD monitor. Or plug the $1600 RED Touch LCD in and buy/rent an Alphatron EVF. Plus the 720p RED EVF is $2K battle-tested. You don’t “need” a $3200 EVF…

          • So Ryan, you are an expert: do article that has clear calculations how much it costs to run new “super cheap” Red Epic / Scarlet.

            I know that Bloom did one (with old prices). It was excellent and honest article – and it somehow made many RED users angry. Simply because someone who actually knows about things said facts aloud.

        • Kemalettin on 11.1.12 @ 8:55PM

          evf is serious business go check Arri Alexa’s EVF prices and come back here we ll have nice chat :)

        • Yes. It’s not that hard to rent optional accessories for RED cameras. It’s actually as easy as clicking your mouse.

        • Bomb EVF is $2k in RED Battle-Tested store, right next to MX..

          • Well he does have a point. People are saying this will stop the BMCC. I think it’ll slow it down but the BMCC is a pick up and play camera. The RED ONE MX isn’t. You have to buy expensive add-ons or rent it. BMCC even has mounts for lenses people in most of our group use. Those add-on prices add up. Luke is right that it’s easy to rent, but what if you want to do a high quality guerrilla short and don’t have time to rent. Great option but isn’t always practical. There is a place for both options.

            Don’t get me wrong, this is HUGE. However, it’s not truly in the BMCC price range. What I like is the drive to force companies to create higher quality products at reasonable prices. $3,000 and up there are options galore now. Sub $3,000 needs higher quality cameras that shoot true 1080p now.

            BMCC, to RED ONE MX, to F5, to F55, to Alexa…seems like the way things are going.

    • Kemalettin on 11.1.12 @ 8:46PM

      they just lowered the prices $10K and you still complaining..Are you high? if you cant afford Red go try BlackMagic
      i appreciate Red’s upgrade program do you know any other cinema camera company offers sensor upgrade? NO!

  • Just got a Scarlet , but i’m tempted to get a Red One brain, just to hold it :)

  • The redone’s are not going to last that long, they where just trade ins. I’m sure there must be a few thousand.

    • Kemalettin on 11.1.12 @ 8:49PM

      more than 5000 :) believe me..

    • Jay slocum on 11.1.12 @ 9:11PM

      i said the same thing that basically they are trying t clear inventory of (shells) of RED ONE MX’s but then again, if RED sells start booming because of this price drop, im pretty sure they may make it a permanent stay.

      If you think about Red technically gave us something special but at same time not completely undercutting the price and benefits of owning a newer epic. A great deal indeed but please read the fine print and know what you are getting.

  • $5K Scarlet would’ve been sweet, no surprises here.

    • HAH. And here I was thinking no one would complain about a lack of “3K for $3K” cameras when there’s a 4.5K for $4K camera… But then I guess there’s always someone to go “meh” to anything.

    • Kemalettin on 11.1.12 @ 8:54PM

      yeah they just lowered Scarlet price 1750$..Looks like you missed the Scarlet so called Battle Tested train :)

  • What’s the difference between Epic X and Epic M?

    • M means the Epic is hand-machined, the X is just standard factory assembled.

    • Unless you have too much money in your pocket you don’t want to buy Machined body. EPIC-X is the way to go.

      • Agreed. The M is basically a leftover of the time when you had to purchase an expensive machined version because they hadn’t set up the “automated” assembly line yet. They kept the option for people who wanted that extra feeling of “special”. But, to each their own…I’m a fan, but too rich for my blood.

    • john jeffreys on 11.2.12 @ 3:28PM

      the M is handmade, cast aluminum i believe, and the air vents are rounded as opposed to the angular design of the X. Also, they take your picture with one and you get your own thread in the “M Owners” section of reduser :)

  • Originally Posted by Axel Mertes
    >Jim, Jarred, RED Team,
    >
    >does END OF LIFE for RED ONE mean that no repairs are possible in future?
    >Just to understand what you add to that formula?
    >
    >If it is the case, it might be useful for young starters to understand, when deciding the pro’s and con’s >regarding SCARLET vs. RED ONE M-X BT.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Axel

    Axel, great question. We have accounted for repair inventory for RED ONE BT. So, yes, repairs to RED ONE will be possible until that inventory depletes.
    Brent BC

    Nope… we stocked up on parts.. We will be able to service RED ONEs for quiet some time forward..
    Jarred

    We will continue to support and service of the RED ONE. End of Life means no more new production.
    Jim

    :-)

  • this is amazing news for future camera owners from any manufacturer other than canon really. Now the sony cameras have to come in at lower prices as well. Everybody wins

  • I will order the MX. Is there any difference between the CF and SSD? I’ve got lots of 64 CFs 600x. Are they ok for the CF one?

    • they recommend to only use their cf cards but I’m sure others can chime in here

      • I think 600x can handle the data. You can go 1000x but I don’t think that cf cards at that time on the release were that fast.

        • It’s not a matter of the headline 300 600 or 1000 data rate… it’s all about the maximum data rate that the card can *sustain*, utterly reliably, with *zero* dropouts, for takes lasting minutes… a very different thing to shooting still bursts on a DSLR. Not many cards are up to snuff in that regard.

    • R1 is picky about the CF cards that work with it; RED own brand work, Lexar Pro 300 UDMA work, other than that you’re probably out of luck. They locked that down due to too many problems with cheapo CF cards getting the camera a bad rep.

      • My god, get the ssd module…… Please, get the ssd module……..

        • I did :-)

          But for people at the bottom end, for whom SSD is an unjustifiable expense… they’re going to be interested in CF cards and old Red Drives…

          Mike

    • You should investigate, I think only Red CF cards are fast enough for the highest framerates. You might be able to do normal framerates, but you may have to use more compression to keep the bitrate low enough for the cards to keep up.

    • Jay slocum on 11.1.12 @ 9:14PM

      you can use cf’s with red one but not with epic , they just cant handle all of the power what the epic or scarlet can throw at them

    • john jeffreys on 11.2.12 @ 3:29PM

      You have to use the RED CF cards, they have custom firmware. However, there is an urban legend that specific 8GB 400x Lexar cards will work

  • Thanks for great info again, Joe! And, Koo, you beat my tweet by literally a few seconds. Darn you! lol
    Very exciting times! And here I was, about to drop $6k cash on Blackmagic and accessories. Now, the tables have turned. Come January, I’ll probably just buy a Scarlet package cash. Incredible!

  • Before we all rush out and get the RED ONE, remember that it only has two lens mount options: PL and Nikon.

    • From Red, yes. Quite a few third-party mounts available, notably the Birger Canon EOS mount, with Impero controller for FF and iris.

  • EPIC-M [Brain Only] already rise with $1K to $25,000 now on there site :/

  • VINCEGORTHO on 11.1.12 @ 9:27PM

    How much is it to make a RED ONE MX operational?

    • At minimum:

      Storage: a couple of CF cards. $100.

      Power: The Battle Tested cameras come with nothing, not even an AC power adapter. So you’re going to need a V-lock battery plate or similar, battery(s) and charger. How much? Depends what you buy, new or used, Red or 3rd party, but figure on several hundred bucks at least.

      Monitor: Red LCD or EVF, or 3rd party HDMI or SDI monitor. Another few hundred bucks.

      That’s absolute minimum to power it up and use it. Then you’re ready to throw on your choice of lens and get shooting. You’re going to want all the gubbins you hang of any serious camera of course – brackets, rails, FF etc. etc. – but you can make images with just the above.

      Mike

  • In history of digital cinema camera , i don’t think any camera company in the world have guts to reduce any camera’s prices by 80% of the original price. i have respect for Jim jinard, I am not buying red but still, for other filmmakers this is huge. red had slapped in the face of all the digital cinema camera companies by doing this. great job Jim, god bless you.

  • Might be time to go epic… i too would like to hear from experienced red shooters/owners what a bare bones epic kit to get u started would cost at the new pricing

    • Touch screen, at least 3x 64gig cards, global media pro batteries, wooden camera top plate, bottom plate with 15mm rod support, and a top handle.

      Fcpx will play 4k no problem. In real time at 1/4 res.

      • I think you can’t go cheaper than that… and a dumb nikon mount from ebay. Some nikons too… Everyone got some old good nikon glass on the wardrobre. lol

      • Nick Wernham on 11.1.12 @ 10:17PM

        We own a Scarlet and just ordered an Epic. Our cards are 64GB and that is great for the Scarlet as your most common shooting format is going to be 4k with 6:1 compression (best quality available on the Scarlet) at 24fps. At that data rate you get about 28 minutes of recorded time.

        However, when you step up to the Epic and go with the most common format of 5k with 5:1 compression (best balance of quality to file size… “The Hobbit” is being shot at 5:1 so why go lower…) at 24fps then you only get about 13 minutes of recording time per 64GB card. That might be enough for some applications, but it’s not enough for our workflow so we’re investing in some larger cards. I mean, if you’re shooting long takes then it’s conceivable that you might not even get seven takes onto one 64GB card. I do more than seven takes sometimes. I think you should hope to get at least all of your takes for one shot all on one card except in extreme circumstances so I would advise at least 128GB cards if you’re going Epic.

  • Jay slocum on 11.1.12 @ 9:41PM

    Whats that new SONY F5 at $6k hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    with this we know that price for f5 will be around the 15k mark, it is in competetion with epic, seriously dobut that sony will lower price lower than 6k but if they do then……………………………………..

  • Feels like all the 4k brigade all have their best poker faces on – they know that the playing field is changing dramatically which is wonderful , so one wonders who will call it checkmate and put the final nail in the proverbial sale ? Interesting times indeed ;) hold back from your wallets y’all

  • Could someone explain a full breakdown of the differences between the Scarlet and Epic? I understand that there are higher frame rates and blacks resolve a bit better on the Epic, but is that leap up from the new Scarlet price completely worth it?

    • People say there is a visual different, but I don’t see it. I had a scarlet it looked great. When I got my epic, it was the same, just with 5k and waaaaaay more frame rates.

  • …..am I the only one who is seeing the SAME Scarlet price on their website?

  • Bahahah – bait and switch – the Red one MX with CF recorder are all sold out! DOH!!!

  • are they any safe, and cheaper 3rd party SSD options that work with red?

  • There is nothing better than competition to bring down prices– The filmmakers win.

  • No more red MX with CF cards… lol

    I wonder how long the SSDs will last…

  • Just throwing it out there – I know a camera isnt an investment BUT at $4k and given the supply will soon run out – isnt there a chance the Red One’s will potentially INCREASE in value – if ever so slightly? Supply and demand?

  • So, does anyone know what a Red ONE MX would cost if you used 3rd party parts? Are there 3rd party parts? It looks like on the site I’d be needing a way to capture media, as well as power the body. I’ve never shot red before, so I’m not sure at all what I’d need. I have an EVF already btw.

    • You’ll need decent sticks and head, a V lock or Anton battery rig, and at least a top handle (there are a few of those available). The sticks are the expensive part, although the new Manfrotto heads will take it. Kessler Hercules a good base.
      I have a Sachtler 18, which are available used for about 3k.

      • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 3:48AM

        SO BASICALLY it will cost about an extra $4k for decents sticks,head, and assories including evf to make the ONE X shoot ready not including media

  • The red one deal is tempting, but with needing PL glass, a beefier tripod and rig to handle the extra weight, I think it might end up costing the same as a scarlet setup keeping my current EF glass, rig and tripod.

  • FML i dont have $4,000 now wtf

  • trackofalljades on 11.1.12 @ 10:23PM

    So realistically, if someone wants to buy one of those used $4000 ONE MX brain units, what do they need to kit it out in the most basic fashion possible? Assume you already have a tripod and that sort of stuff, but say a decent “interview” lens (say, 50mm equivalent?) and whatever records to CF cards and a modest monitor and whatever else is needed to actually run it?

    What kind of total investment would that be? An additional $4000? Twice that? Ten times that? I have no idea because I’ve never even considered RED before.

    • I think pretty much just a battery system beyond what you listed…there are a bunch of cheap third party and used options for these things too. You’ve got tons of V-mount battery options for example. Honestly, I’d spend the $4000 and figure the details out later…there are just so many cheap options, you could probably basically spend the same you would getting accessories for the BMCC.

      • Yep.

      • Are you really sure that it is just going to be USD 4k (for brain) + USD 4k (for accessories)? I know that there are many battery options that is cheaper than what RED is offering but what about the Recording Media? I thought there is no way to record this except to Proprietary RED SSD?

        • Depends if you get the CF or SSD one. But yeah it might bump it up a little for media…but you don’t have to buy them new. Other than that, the Red One is much more like a traditional camera, no need for touchscreens or a bunch of modules, ect. There were a lot of Red One’s sold…that means there are a ton of cheap accessories on the market.

          • It seems that it is only on nofilmschool that you here people talking about 6k to 8k configuration. On every other site everyone is talking more about 12k. That is only for the camera, you have to add a tripod that will cost about the same as the 4k of the camera itself. You also have to consider that these are second hand unit even if they are manufactured refurbish. So a good advice is to get a 2 years warranty which will be another $ 1500. So I advise everyone who are on a budget to do there math and just not listen to one voice and make a proper research.

            • Joe Marine on 11.2.12 @ 3:22PM

              You can shoot with as little or as much as you want. There are definitely cheaper tripods out there than $4,000, and many that people already own are right around the limit that a RED ONE package will weigh.

              Here you go, $1,050, will easily handle most RED packages you’ll be using: Libec RS-450M Professional 2-Stage Aluminum Tripod System with Mid Spreader

              This is a DIY site, and what comes with that, are people who find cheaper solutions to problems that “professionals” assume can only be solved by spending a lot more money. Is more expensive gear better? Could be, but there are diminishing returns. You could easily put together a camera system for around $7,000-$8,000 which includes everything you need to shoot something, and since the RED ONE MX can shoot CF cards, those could save you a ton of money. You would just need to add that $500 module.

              Here’s the thing, if you own anything at all and have been making purchases that scale with your camera systems, you’re probably not building a whole new rig. Yes maybe it will cost you $12,000 if you are starting from scratch, but I would not suggest anyone starting from scratch buy a RED ONE MX as their first camera.

  • Define battle tested

  • there is NO pricecut on Scarlet!
    Please point that out in your post!
    new price is WITHOUT side-SSD and Mount!!
    Old prices were WITH side-SSD and Mount, if you add those, price will be almost the same as the price from Nov. 3rd last year.

    • New price is $7950 brain only. Yesterday that was $9700 brain only. How is that not a price cut?

      Yes, they’re close to what they were when originally announced, if that’s what you’re looking for.

      • Yeah, but still $400 more if you take accessories into account ;-) EARLY ADOPTERS RULE!!!

        Kidding, kidding…

      • My understanding is the BT Scarlet packages from a week ago were $3000 cheaper than these “new” ones similarly configured. So not the best. deal. ever.

        Either way, you are still looking at memory at $9000 per terabyte. Commodity SSDs of the same speed are $800 per terabyte. I can’t get past that. That is outrageous. I would be banned from owning their products for “having a bad attitude.” What about their attitude?

        • What company with a proven camera system doesn’t charge a lot on media? Both Sony and Panasonic have pricing similar to Red’s. You can’t use BMCC as a standard.

        • Sony is currently $11,400 per terabyte for SR: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/831335-REG/Sony_SR_512S55_SR_512S55_SRMemory_Card_512GB.html

          Sony is $10,864 per terabyte for SxS: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/737232-REG/Sony_SBS_64G1A_SxS_1_G1A_64GB_Memory.html

          Panasonic is $10,960 per terabyte for P2: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/878244-REG/Panasonic_aj_p2e064fg_F_Series_P2_Card.html

          RED is $7,800 per terabyte (two 512GB modules at $3,900 each)

          So even if we want to complain that they are using regular SSDs and charging more, it’s not much different than what’s capable with any of the other camera systems. How about Canon? Yeah, CF cards and SD cards, but for what, 8-bit 50mbps 1080p? Unless you’re shooting documentaries, you’re not shooting more than a few hours per day anyway, and who is to say you can’t format on location if you’re handling offloading to multiple hard drives right on site. Just because you might need 5 hours of record time, does not mean everyone does. I could only see myself needing 1 terabyte if I was shooting 5K at 120fps, which no camera can currently do (besides RED).

          What about Canon’s RAW? Uncompressed 4K, which ends up being a far bigger deal on the post end unless you convert to another format like Cineform RAW. It’s just like Blackmagic Cinema Camera RAW data rates, except you’re dealing with 4K and not 2.5K.

          • Sony SRMemory has native RAID-5 RED DOES NOT.

            Besides, why you chose the fastest SRMemory ? 2,5 gigabits SRMemory from sony is 8000 dollars for terabyte :

            http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/831331-REG/Sony_SR_512S25_SR_512S25_SRMemory_Card_512GB.html

            And it is still faster than “normal” RED SSD:s.

            • Actually I forgot Sony developed the 1TB models. The 1 Terabyte 2.5 Gbps card can’t do higher frame rates, but it’s only $6,000. They don’t seem to list a price for the 1 Terabyte 5.5 Gbps card. So yes, Sony is cheaper there. But still, it takes a $20,000 recorder to do 4K, so it’s a $100,000 camera system or more.

              With RED you have the compression options, so you can actually record these higher frame rates on the 64GB to 512GB cards.

              Sony could very well produce the new 512GB AXSM for pretty cheap and the 4K recorder for $5K and they could be cheaper than what RED is doing. All I’m trying to say is the situation isn’t that much different anywhere else. RED is charging a premium, no question, but then so is everyone else.

          • Lol. Joe is slowly turning to the dark side.

  • RED leads the second wave of pro camera price/features revolution!:D Now everybody has to drop prices again! Kudos to RED!:) Still want a BMCC though..for the color science…and internal Proress. F5 for slo mo though..most likely it will be below 10K.

  • RED would “make an obscene profit” if it could. (Quote from Jim Jannard at http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87757-Everything-changes-IMPORTANT-post&p=1083486&viewfull=1#post1083486)

    RED could not sell the EPIC at the previous price of $34,500 (EPIC-X) or $39,500 (EPIC-M). Lowering the price of the EPIC models by 45% and 39% (respectively) is a sign that the company is in trouble.

    RED is being squeezed from below (Blackmagic), above (Sony), and sideways (Canon). RED is a private company, so no outsider knows how much money they are making (or losing).

    Why not lower the price of the accessories as well as the “brains”? Maybe RED makes a great deal of profit on accessories?

    The mandatory REDMAG drives are sold at a price approximately six times higher than retail 1.8-inch SSD drives of the same capacity and sufficient write speed (for example, the Kingston SVP180S2 series). How much of that is profit? 83%? Remember that RED does not buy the drives at retail. Just because Sony also requires expensive proprietary storage (SxS cards) does not make it reasonable or right.

    • What makes you think computer SSDs and camera media are directly comparable when every major company has pricing like Red’s?

      • Little camera companies don’t have the hops to innovate on mass storage vs. the broad market. They are just trying to hide profits from the foolish first-time buyer. “Wow 5K for under $20K!!!!”

        • Have you ever seen a Red SSD in real life? It’s clearly not the same thing as a computer SSD. The build quality alone warrants the price, a computer SSD would be in pieces if it received a fraction the beating a Red SSD can take.

          • Actually it is. Internally it’s totally standard off-the-shelf Toshiba SSD modules – *with some very special firmware* to allow absolutely rock-solid write performance however long the take.

          • This is a great misconception about SSDs. An SSD has no moving parts – they don’t generate heat, and they are extremely hard to damaged (unless you throw one against a wall as hard as you can). They also have around 1,500,000 – 2,000,000 hours of operation time. RED propriety media, as well as Sony’s, Canon’s and Panasonic, are all rip-offs. They are nothing but re-housed SSD drivers. The reason RED can drop the price so sharply on their cameras is because they make it back on accessories.

          • @Mike, I wasn’t talking about the inside though.

      • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 3:52AM

        What about AJA ki pro mini that has new firmware that supports red 2k and 4k to pro res, is it possible even though the AJA has 10bit versus red 12 bit, how would that work set up wise as capturing media for quicker post as opposed to ssd cards from red.

    • They sold quite a few EPICs at that price. At this price? I know plenty of small prodcos that will now buy one.

    • The RED business model has always been about hiding the cost. They hide the real price of camera system in accessories, especially in SSDs and similar things.

  • So should I get the RED ONE M-X now? Anyone??

  • I wonder if history will repeat on November 2013 or 2014 and we will see Epic X for $4-6k? I’m going to wait till then ;-)

  • Thank God I’m a soundie. After 15 years my Sennheiser MKH60,Schoeps 41 and SD mixer still function with flawless precision. It helps that we sound people have been recording uncompressed for decades now. I just hope my next DP won’t be a 12 year old skateboard kid with a 8k GoPro and a mil+ hits on Youtube who wants to lecture me about LUTs, color space,and the difference between compression schemes, let alone his/her ideas about sound. Well, at least you guys can still take 3 hours to set the shot and then put a 4×4 flag where we need to boom from … enjoy the future people…just my guess but i think it ain’t pretty

    • ah, the late 90s didn’t happen then? this exact thing happened in digital audio, just happened a lot earlier because the processing power needed was so much less.
      I would compare the mic situation to lenses. An Ultra Prime circa 1999 is still useful today.

      And I notice that decent mics are getting cheaper lately.

      • Do some good research before as from every good resouce I have found be prepared to add at least 6k just for the camera. Now you will also have to add a good 4k for a tripod that will hold its weight. It is still a fantastic offer but the 4k body is only the tip of the iceberg.

  • Here’s the math on a working Epic X minimum. One hour shoot. One hour footage.
    EPIC X Brain / Mount / Side SSD $22500 [$19000 brain only, where do you put the lens]
    Side Handle $950 [for power and control]
    LCD $1600 [maybe you could save here with a SmallHD or Zacuto]
    2x64GB SSD $1450
    REDMAG $250 [to read SSD]
    RED VOLTS [2] $390 [realistically you need a lot more at 30 mins each]
    Charger $150
    Total $27 290 plus tax [$2183]

    Given the power and storage required for even the most basic shoot, the above package is unrealistic.
    Let’s not get crazy with the $19 000 number it doesn’t really mean anything unless you are bought into the RED ecosystem.

    Bottom line. $29 473

    • A) I really hope you’re not a production accountant, and B) that’s down from about $45k that I’ve seen on many a quoted system.

    • …And if you need the Prores-module add 13000 dollars (!!!!).

      Also, if do any more work with RED raw, you need that Red Rocket card. I think it is 6000,- dollars.

      • There is no ProRes module. There is a module that happens to have ProRes recording as an option among a gazillion other advanced features.

      • A lot of people shoot and edit RED without a rocket these days.

    • Don’t use REDVOLTs if you want to lower the price. Get an Al Canon mount if you want to lower the price further. If the price is still too high, get the Scarlet. If that’s too high, get the One for $4k!!! If that’s still too high, rent…

  • This is truly amazing, can’t wait to see price adjustments across the board.

    Battle tested Red One MX, amazing deal. May have to bite.

    • I’m just worried about the cost of buying into the RED system. The SSD’s are crazy expensive…not to mention the other stuff to make it a full package.

      Argh, $4k for 4k is hard to dismiss.

      • The SSDs are really the only thing that you don’t have a cheap option for…everything else should be relatively easy to get a basic workable solution for cheap and third party. Just remember it’s a big heavy camera, so you might need a beefier tripod. If money’s an issue, make sure you’re just looking at used stuff…there’s a lot out there.

        • Argh. So tempting…heck, I could probably get away with renting this locally for maybe $300/day. That’d be a nice way to offset some of the cost.

        • For the Red One you have multiple cheaper options… CF cards are cheap. Red Drives are dirt cheap for the amount of storage. And with more cameras out there, the incentive will be there for some enterprising manufacturer to offer cheaper Red-compatible SSD storage, or other storage options for Epic/Scarlet.

      • I think you mean 4k for $4k. :)

  • Well I can finally say that I CAN own an RED Camera now, Indie film makers rejoice!

  • So happy to say I finally own a RED!!!

  • I learned so much from this thread about commenters. They only hate what they can’t afford until they can, then they love it. How many people have cursed Reds name but have been indoctrinated tonight.

  • Hmmm…now I’m reconsidering. This might not be so special after all, at least on the RED One deal.

    Within a year, all of the major manufacturers will probably be pushing 4K. And you’ll be able to shoot it without the headaches or hassles of a heavy, quirky 5 year old body design with costly accessories and storage media.

    • Agreed. However, as you’ll see from Sony’s move, it’s not going to be at this price. Buying an MX only makes sense if you can write it off within 12-24 months. By that time (late 2014) there will be serious alternatives at the 5-7k mark.
      If you’re making projects RIGHT NOW and already own most of the other pieces then its a slam dunk. If you’re wanting to be a jobbing cam op, then you’ll need to get a more flexible solution. An MX is a 70′s muscle car – very powerful in a straight line. That’s a great thing, but not always the most useful, or easy to live with.

    • None of the alternatives will give you the ability to shoot *raw* at any relatively affordable price point. That’s Red’s great strength; the ability to shoot raw. Coming from a still background it’s a total no-brainer for me to shoot movies raw – like, IS there any other way?!

  • Seriously considering a Red One and pairing it with my 5D3 for projects where I don’t feel like hassling with the big kit. Can anyone who’s used it in small production environments of less than 5 people tell me what their experience is like?

    Is the weight that cumbersome? How does the low-light compare to a last generation DSLR like a 7D?

    • It’s not too cumbersome once you get used to it…like an ENG camera, it’s possible to run by yourself despite its size and weight. But you will need to get used to it…also it starts up in a minute and a half, so plan for that. Get the Black and Blue’s camera guide for it, the menus are kinda confusing at first (the Epic/Scarlet menus are a huge improvement). But it’s a very capable camera, and it’s not rocket science to use it once you know how it all works and you use it for a bit.

      Low light with the MX sensor’s as good as first gen DSLR’s like 5d Mk II and 7d for sure.

      • Agreed. It’s perfectly totable single handed. I’ve shot with the R1 solo on top of a 10,000ft volcano. OK damned near killed me lol but it’s possible!

        Biggest thing for a Red newbie: read, re-read, and inwardly digest everything on how to expose it properly. Grok the histogram, goalposts and traffic lights in fullness, and you’re golden.

      • Thanks man, appreciate the help. If I could ask one more thing, would my Zacuto EVF suffice or do I need to get a monitoring solution that uses SDI?

  • whatever happened to that Canon C something??? ha.

    • The C300 still has a market: documentary. It’s insane low light capabilities compared to the EPIC’s makes it a good contender. However, they are still going to have to lower prices at this point.

  • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 3:35AM

    Can anyone , any RED owners give advice on what would be a cost effective but low cost set on shooting with the RED ONE MX. You know what do we really need to start doing small shooting (power, screen, media) etc.

    about how much extra will it cost today to realistically start shooting with the RED ONE, because all of the older info is outdated

  • Well, after watching this and Sony’s announcements unfold and analyzing and obsessing, I finally bit the bullet and pulled the trigger….on an FS700. Not that Scarlet doesn’t look attractive, but Sony feels like a good fit for me. Great image and ridiculous overcrank now….4K raw later on when I may have some need for it. These are good times; there are a lot of options and each of the major players is working out its own niche…..except Canon…..I have no idea what the hell they are doing.

    Go Red. Go Sony. Go filmmakers.

    • Ah yes, the FS700. Possibly the only camera on earth where if you DOUBLED its price, it would probably still sell a few.

    • Canon is doing fine enough I think. The C500 may be a lot more pleasant to work with than the RED or Sony equivalents, although there will be partisans on the look.

      If Canon is offering two more stops of low light, consider the impact of shooting Canon on the rest of your budget. Two stops makes dinky Lowel Pro-Lights into ARRI 1K’s. You can shoot without a generator and with LED panels out in the woods if you need to. You have commodity media, plentiful and cheap glass options and great ergonomics and build. You also have internal 1080p for convenience.

      Canons are fine cameras to own. RED saturated the rental market and now is trying to get people to buy. But how many 4K features do people actually shoot a year? If you are shooting narratives more than 60 days a year, really, then fine, pick amongst the Alexa RED and Sony options and save money vs. renting. But most people are still doing 1080p work primarily and need to adapt to a wide variety of budgets and shooting situations with minimal hassle and they are going to buy Canons and rent the camera du jour for clients ambitious enough to go 4K just as they will a Phantom for HFR.

      The best upshot of this news is the RED rental rates should come down a third or so because the buy/rent equation has.

      • Please explain how uncompressed 4k raw is easier to deal with then redcode. And I know the c300 is barely more sensitive than the f3 so I doubt the c500 will beat out the f5 there. Also you can’t just shoot at high ISO at least for serious productions, it shifts the dynamic range around and canon cams don’t clip nicely. The problem with canon cams is that they have no innovations other than ergonomics, red brought 4k raw, Arri brought prores, Sony brought low light, now compression versitility, there cams are solid but what’s canons tech break through?

        • brian merkeb on 11.2.12 @ 11:33AM

          dude they brought out the “you can change ur lens” concept lol

        • To your first question: Uncompressed 4K RAW may well be easier to work with and cheaper to boot. If the C500 allows the use of external recorders that use commodity SSDs, and RED SSDs have a 10:1 price markup, then you will have to use 10:1 compression on the RED to shoot as cheaply as on the C500…meaning that your IQ is going to suffer commensurately or your budget will. I don’t care if the SSD I put into the recorder is 512GB or 64GB, what matters is how long I can shoot on it for what cost.

          Then on the post side of the equation the uncompressed RAW may not need a $6000 RED ROCKET card and may offer lots more options for RAW conversion. I don’t know all of these details about the C500 yet but if I was shopping for one of these I would certainly bone up on them.

          • Well just giving you a heads up on a 64 gig card you’ll get around 3 minutes of uncompressed record time on the c500. I don’t think that sort of data rate is easier to deal with

          • You don’t need a Red Rocket unless you need to edit in 4k. Otherwise you just drop the resolution down.

          • The $4000 Aja Ki Pro Quad can take the 4K RAW of the C500 and debayer it direct to ProRes on commodity SSDs if you don’t want to record uncompressed. The C500, which btw is in stock at B&H as I type this, also records a 50mbps proxy internally at the same time to CF, so you have a complete 4K, 60fps system, all media and batteries included, for well under $35K that can record all day long without an unload if that is the assignment. Epic pricing still can’t touch that, Scarlet’s media costs are so high that it only roughly matches that price. And you don’t get the proxy or direct-to-ProRes without a $13K Meizler Module, and the media cost is so high you are less likely to use the safety of redundancy.

            Price-no-object people are of course only going to think about what the right system for their film is and will have DITs and such worry about the details. The pretentious will try to buy their way into matching them but may be just giving themselves headaches. Canon doesn’t sell much to either of those parties but instead to the people who are most interested in avoiding headaches and still having something to be proud of at the end of the day. On the shoots I’ve been on with Epics there’s always a lot of fuss. I’ve never witnessed fuss with the C300, it’s as if it just works, and the operators are more interested in what they are shooting than how to work this damn thing.

          • If you record Proress you lose raw, If you just want prores 4k then why not get a 1dc. Its half price. C500 users are buying for raw. I don’t know how big the market is for people who want to shoot 4k compressed baked for 8 hours without a dump

            The offline online argument is weak for the c500, its the only option that requires an external recorder, rail support and external power, modules for proxy/master solutions are the future.

            Scarlet media is not expensive is 500 for a 50 gig card.

            There are plenty of prores proxy options for scarlet and epic, you don’t need a meizer module, I don’t understand what you mean.

            The best part of Red media is the dump speed. I can dump a 64 gig card via usb 3.0 and have it backed up in a raid config in 3 minutes. I’ve never needed more than three cards for anything shooting all day. These media issues are myths.

            The c500 is a huge headache!!!!. To get 4k you need an external recorder external power and a rail support system and two connect hd sdi cables. And Canon has no 4k raw codec, its uncompressed, nobody wants uncompressed. What wouldn’t be a headache is if you have the proxy recording and masters on the same body no external nothing, o wait sony is doing that. Their solution is no headache. Not to mention canon only has 12 stops dynamic range vs dragon 14-15 and sony 14.

            I’ve shot on the c300 plenty too and never had an issue with it, the codec is very robust, but its overpriced. Epic is not.

        • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 4:25PM

          Canon made waves with the 5d Mark three years ago and honestly have not did shiiit since then, but overly priced stuff. IMO they are irrelevant to everyday working film makers who dont have backings of major hollywood studios. Even spike lee bought a Sony digital camera over the overly priced C5OO.

          When and if the 5D MARK 3 offers uncompressed video with working lcd, then i may consider buying a refurbished one for a B or C camera for low light because the 5D MARK 3 did a good job with moire and aliasing, but if not i getting FS100 for lowlight and BMC , SONY, or REd for RAW and main camera, canon is old news.

  • Nice move! now I`m getting the F55, after heard and witnessed too many technical failures of the Red One and Epic, I would rather not show up with those on a real set…

    • Real sets like Hobbit, Prometheus, Social Network, Pirates 4, Spidey, Margin Call, Dredd…?

      Mike

      • I never used a Red but I too I’m worried about their reliability. The big movies you list all have a bunch of cameras on set. So if one fails they just swap it. But for a small production with only one camera it’s more of a problem when the camera fails.

        • Nick Wernham on 11.2.12 @ 6:21PM

          I’ve been using our Scarlet for the better part of a year now COMPLETELY without issue. This is the first time I have used any camera for that long without any loss of footage for some reason or another.

          • I’ve used RED on an indie feature and several spots. The cameras are solid and reliable. Where they fell down was in the complexity of the rigging required – set up time. And in low light. We felt they maxed at 320 ASA. That slowed us down a bit more with the lighting required. But with the added dynamic range and resolution we were able to fix so many shots in post it was remarkable.

            That said, I would definitely consider other cameras for the next feature.

      • Those are sets where they didn’t turn up with an epic, they turned up with a dozen or more. When one fails they swap it out. Same happens on the shoots I work on when we use Red products.

        • Our Epic-X hasn’t failed. Not once. And right now is shooting a flick with Elijah Wood and Sasha Grey.

          • domenic barbero on 11.2.12 @ 1:10PM

            precisely. i have a scarlet, and ive shot a feature, a handful of shorts, several music videos, rented it out and has not failed once. Its been a solid workhorse.

          • konstantinos on 11.2.12 @ 11:50PM

            So are you doing the porn version of the Hobbit ?

  • Peter Kelly on 11.2.12 @ 4:14AM

    Wow, this is amazing news for anyone thinking about buying any brand of camera.

    I’m gonna hold off a bit and see how Sony/Canon re-act to this. Prices on the $6000 -$8000 cameras are surely gonna have to come down now and that’s what I’ll be looking at.

    Very exciting times

    • If a C300 dropped to $8k… I’d still probably opt for an FS700 or (yes, still) a BMCC.

      • Agreed. And from some footage I’ve seen so far the BMCC still has the most 16mm film look I’ve seen out of a digital camera so far.

        • But for the form factor though the C300 is hard to beat. Much better than FS700 on that side for run an gun.

          • C300 definitely has an advantage in form factor, but the frame rate options and internal ND definitely push the scale to Sony, for me at least. My worthless opinion :-)

            Honestly, though, I’d be really happy with either camera in my arsenal.

  • Ohhh! Amazing prices RED did.

  • So, who’s gonna lend me $4k? LOL :D

    • Maybe a bit more no? 4K is the brain only. No power, no LCD, no viewfinder, no memory card, no battery, no handle. I see more interesting deals on ebay with full packages.

      • I’m pretty sure the cameras will sell out really fast, getting the body for now would be the no.1 thing.

  • On a serious note tho, does red accept paypal? (I highly doubt it)

  • nigel Thompson on 11.2.12 @ 8:04AM

    Im told the RED ONE MX with CF cards sold out last night

  • Wow. This particular RED blog has a very brave new world feel about it. Barely read a negative comment!
    Remarkable :)))) RED is not perfect, they have made mistakes, they admit it. But they are certainly the most remarkable camera manufacturer on the planet and are truly helping to democratise film making.

    People love to state “it’s all about the story” now it can be for a LOT more people.

  • Top ten comments after Red announcement:

    10. I just saw coffee shoot out of Jeff Cronenweth’s nose.

    9. It said Abbie Normal.

    8. More K’s than the KKK

    7. Can I get magic Lantern for it?

    6.That stupid epic brain still costs as much as my boat. Hmmm, little camera or boat….

    5. More moms will be able to afford reds for their kids now.

    4. For the price of a new car you can now shoot a movie as nice as Prometheus.

    3. I can finally be a serious DP for $25k

    2. No need for film school, just a loan.

    1. What do I do with a camera brain?

  • Sorry about your RED REsale…if need be.

  • About time

  • This really is such a cool time to be a filmmaker… Although it is almost scary to think how fast technology is moving. I mean a $25,000 camera is now 4K. That is pretty insane. Definitely a possibility for me.

    • Hell, a freakin’ $400 GoPro now shoots 4K footage, people. Does anyone else realize just how INSANE that is?

      • Haven’t checked it out. heard cool stuff about it. Can use it for lotsa MOS shots. But, no audio, right?

      • Julian Terry on 11.2.12 @ 9:42AM

        The Red is trying to compete with GoPro!

      • The go-pro 4k is only 15fps….not sure what you’d use that for

        • …it was a joke, friend.

          That being said, 2.7K @ 30 fps, 1440p @ 48 fps, 1080p @ 60 fps, 960p @ 100 fps, and 720p @ 120 fps isn’t something to shake a stick at, either. All for $399, weighing about a pound and controllable by an iPhone. Crazy times, indeed.

        • timelapse bursts etc. handy during sunsets/sunrises

        • Agni Ortiz on 11.2.12 @ 2:29PM

          a faster than normal foot chase on treadmills with green screen background composited over 3d animation played to Skrillex ?

  • Alright. cool. pound for pound…spec for spec…how does BLACK MAGIC DIGITAL CAMERA compare EXACTLY to RED ONE:

    I know BLACk MAGIC is only 2.5 k raw compared to 4 k raw…but the specs, from a DP’s perspective? Who’s on the line now?

    • Getting a RED ONE over the BMC would be a no-brainer in my opinion. S35 vs S16-ish, the Mx sensor is still fantastic, RED ONE is built like a tank (and weighs nearly as much:), tons of accessories around for RED, different lens mounts available, 4.5k RAW etc etc….

      Honestly the S35 sensor is a big enough plus in and of itself for me.

    • I guess it really depends on the project and your budget. If you’re shooting a feature for $50k, RED is even more feasible now. But for ultra low-budget features, less than $10k – BMCC could be a great camera for something that would have shot on a DSLR last year. Of course, if you can get your hands on one :-)

    • As long as price is no object (RED accessories will cost more than with BMCC), there really is no comparison here. RED ONE by a long shot.

    • Pound for pound? I think RED one body is about 7 pounds heavier. *Snicker* Sorry.

      Larger sensor. 4.5K equals a lot lot more resolution than 2.5K, and 120FPS in 2k? BMCC also has resolve though and won’t require as many accessories… but imho, hands down, RED one is an unbelievable deal. And I’m a huge fan of the BMCC.

      If I knew what i know now when Scarlet was released, I would have waited and bought two RED ones instead. Hell I almost jumped on a full RED MX package with accessories etc for 14K instead of a Scarlet. Love her. But now for half the cost you can get twice the frame rates… and shoot 24p at a higher resolution. If it wasn’t for upgrade path for Scarlet I would be feeling pretty gutted right now. It’s a lot of hard work paying my credit cards to cover my Scarlet purchase.

  • nigel Thompson on 11.2.12 @ 9:37AM

    I love Alexas , just cant Afford one 89K……. SO ill buy me a RED, thanks bye

    • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 4:39PM

      You dont need and ARRI when BMC can do 2.5k, just port in resolve do a minor change, then encode export to flavor of your choice for editing and walahhhh.

      Also the BMC also has PRO RES HQ 12 bit coming in at 220MBPS , with good color grading this is more than acceptable and amazing for small screen, indie flicks, and TV, WEB etc, could also hold up well as on big screen. The only back draw of this camera of course is getting the right lens for that wide shot, Nikon old AI-S lens stop at 20mm These hold up well on big screen. So the only option for ultra wide shot is VOIT 0.95 but it aint that sharp , so you could rent a ziess but in low light is not good unless you have lighting, So my suggesting is to just “back the h3ll back” to get your wides and use good ighting at night.

      Red Sounds good, but still not shoot ready for under 6k, Im still wating at the BMC bust stop waitng on it to come, but then again They if sony comes correct with the price, then im will pay more for a reliable company that actually will have backups , unlike BMC who as of yet can not even put out more than 12 cameras in the wild.

  • amazing.. but does this mean that Red rental packages and resell value for the R1 will drop in proportion??

    • …of course it does. Rental shops everywhere just got a huge punch in the gut. But for the renters, it’s great news.

  • Anthony Marino on 11.2.12 @ 11:16AM

    I own an Fs700 and wouldn’t think twice about ever owning a Red product. You can say what you want about Red but they are made in the USA and give a beautiful image. For me the Fs700 is more versatile right now but I salivate every time I see a red package. Its happy times for a lot of us right now, whether you’re using a GH2, BMCC or Epic and everything in between there’s a bunch of ways to capture some beautiful imagery at much lower costs. I’m not complaining. Cheers.

    • well said.

    • Amen.

      If you have the money, this announcement is a big deal. If you have an FS700, BMCC on the way, 7D, or GH2…. you can still make incredible images that weren’t possible on consumer cameras six years ago.

  • brian merlen on 11.2.12 @ 11:40AM

    the only thing going for Arri is their bankruptcy claim…oh that and the lawsuit for them hacking into red since they cannot innovate on their own for decades

    • No.

      Do you know what company DOMINATES at the moment both digital TV and cinema world ?

      Hint: it is not RED and it is not Sony.

      As much as megalomaniac Jannard would like to think otherwise.

      • The publishers of Twilight?

      • Oh, the megalomaniac is fully aware about mighty Arri and it’s marriage to the TV market.

      • Oooh! Oooh! Me! It’s Disney right!

      • Jay slocum on 11.3.12 @ 5:45PM

        Yeah but i bet money, that Arri most likely gave away hundreds if not hundreds if not more free cameras to marketing agencies, productions companies, and directors as an investment and marketing scheme. The fact of the matter is that if Arri does not realize that we are in a new era, new economy, and new world where owning a cinema camera capable of gracing the big screen can be owned by the common working man. Because honestly Arris priced above 60k are not flying off shelves and they are not recieving that much revenue from rental houses. Do not be suprised in a year or two if we see an affordable Arri under $18k. They already caved under pressure and produced a smaller version head because of the modular revolution that started with DSLR’s and was perfected by RED.

        • Jay slocum, is your Redfanboyism getting the better of you? Don’t know where you’re situated but, in Hollywood, Arri is still King and the rentals are mostly Arri’s… for serious work anyway. And that, “smaller version head” you mentioned had nothing to do with pressure from Red or anybody else. Don’t kid yourself. And I, a Red lover. :)

          • What exactly is a serious project though? Keep in mind Arri’s name is only part of its adoption…the reason it dominates TV is because it can shoot straight to ProRes which makes many people’s live way easier in a world of short turn around times. In features films, it’s a different story, and Red holds its own, especially with 3d. And no, you can’t disregard 3d since that’s an advantage comparable to Alexa’s ProRes for TV. You can’t say “of course they shot Red because it was 3d” unless you also say “of course they shot Alexa because it was for TV”.

          • @Dixter good points, you made alot of true and valid points, in fact i never said ARRI was not a good camera, i was actually responding to an above response about arri being used in industry, i simply stated that ARRI could have like many companies gave or lending cameras as a marketing tool, to cement its name in the digital era. Also again i think arri’s camera and workflow is amazing, never said it was not, i just simply stated that the price is too and that they changed their form factor for mobility , also they will too eventually they will come out with a camera at a lower price its inevitable.

  • This is great news. I teach a couple Video Production classes and mention the RED and their competitors to the students. One of the questions I have been getting is why get a RED compared to a Blackmagic. At a poor college student, indie film budget, RED has become more of a competitor.

    • Just my opinion, but at an indie budget I would stick with the BMCC. RED Still requires a lot of extra costs to get up and running – lens – battery – EVF etc. Black Magic just needs a lens. On a limited budget I don’t think you can beat the Black Magic.

    • Scarlet is still at $16K to be usable.

      BMCC is $3K, $5K with battery and memory additions….that’s not even in the same ballpark, especially for students.

      The EPIC was a great price drop, but I was hoping the Scarlet would have dipped a bit more. $10K for the basic kit (LCD, SSD, Battery) would have been a real game changer!

  • This is great! Prices keep dropping and quality keeps going up. This helps everyone, but definitely keeps it competitive. Our austin video production company will likely purchase a RED soon because of this drop.

  • ok Sony…how about that pricing now? I’m flying half way around the world on Sunday, would love to know before I leave…

  • Jacobs Ladder on 11.2.12 @ 1:33PM

    Looking at this from a long term perspective, around this this time next year I should be able to buy a DSLR sized camera with at least 13 stops of DR, 60fps, RAW, with a hacked gh2 level of detail for about $5000 max. “C’mon 5D Mark III lets continue to make money over this next year that I’ll use to drop your ass with later”

    • marklondon on 11.2.12 @ 1:56PM

      This time 2014 sure. Not next year.

      • Jacobs Ladder on 11.2.12 @ 2:17PM

        Why not? We’re already 3/4 of the way there with a BMCC now?

        • Exactly. I wouldn’t be surprised if Blackmagic has a 4K BMCC follow-up in the wings. I could see the price point be maybe $4,999, with 30fps for 4K, 60fps for 2.5k, 120fps for 1080p, etc. Perhaps an APS-C sized sensor.

          That would basically put an end to RED’s dominance in 4K/5K territory.

          • easy to say hard to make.

          • Same thing people said before the BMCC was announced, too. I don’t see any reason why they can’t pull it off in the next year or two.

            Hell, even GoPro found a way to stick 4K at 15fps in a $399 camera that fits in the palm of your hand. Obviously a different universe of sensor size…but still. Even that concept would have been unthinkable as recently as a year ago.

  • marklondon on 11.2.12 @ 2:28PM

    Is this your busiest thread this year?

  • Really tempted to cancel the BT scarlet that I bought the other week and jump on the Red One, but honestly the PL mount scares me. All of my canon glass goes to waste, and I’d be back to needing to rent out lenses every time I wanted to shoot. That and the lack of upgrade path. Think I’m going to have to stick with scarlet in the end.

    • I was literally on the site buying a One when I remembered the mount! I have over $10K in Canon glass and I couldn’t find an EOS mount for the One on their site anywhere. by the next day they CF version was sold out.

      I would cancel my BMCC preorder for a BT One with CF or SSD at $4K, if it had an EOS mount.

    • No Don’t the Red one takes 1 1/2 minute to boot don’t do it the scarlets alot nicer

  • What is the minimum price the red one mx is going to cost me to get it functioning?

    • Someone else had the same question on page 1 or 2 of these comments. It was answered well. Check back through.

  • This is not a good thing.

    This creates a downward pressure on wages and rentals in an industry that’s already seeing a deflation crisis in rates and a devaluation of skill sets and equipment.

    My first thought in seeing the prices was, okay well now you have to have a RED to compete and there’s going to be a LOT more competition which means a lot of people out there undercutting each other.

  • The prices are still a little bit too much for me to just flat out buy right now based on the additional things I would need to buy to make them fully work (if I owned some PL glass already, that would be a much different story). My main question now is what will be Sony’s response for pricing the new Fs, and whether the rest of the companies will make some price drops.

  • If you are a working professional, owner/operator especially, buying a Red camera is foolish.
    In fact, buying any camera that costs more than something you are comfortable paying in cash is foolish.
    I’ve been with Red from the beginning. Never again.

    If you are shooting for fun and have money to burn, go for it.

    • So why is that? Why so negative?

      • I have never own a piece of tech that devaluated this fast. Everything you buy from Red is worthless the next day, it needs an upgrade or is unusable. This includes lenses Some stuff you can’t give away for free. They were selling Red One for $25000 a week ago, today they are $4000. They are sure great cameras but I have no intention to keep throwing my money away, I’d rather rent cameras that suit the project and keep a cheaper camera around the house for personal stuff.
        Additionally, the company’s arrogant attitude as well as infantile user base is nothing I want to be a part of.
        This is coming from someone who’s been firmly in the Red camp for four years now.

        Be prepared for an internet avalanche of “check out my Epic rig”, “quick and dirty test” that doesn’t test anything and an onslaught of other unwatchable crap shot on a camera they shot the Hobbit on.

        • Worthless the next day? Are you high?

          The RED ONE is a 5 year old camera. You’re honestly going to tell me that all the people who bought one 3 or 4 years ago (or even 1 or 2) should feel bad about an inevitable price drop? I guarantee you that even if they’re halfway decent, they’ve made many returns on their investment.

          • No I’m not high. Are you stupid?
            I’m $120k deep in the Red platform. I was probably high when I though that I would have a couple of years before the prices get slashed by 45%. My Epic is 7 months old and my rates as a shooter/owner will go down, there will be an influx of rate undercutting goons running around with shiny new Epics that mommy and daddy bought them and they suddenly became DPs.
            Every electronic accessory that Red sells is worthless within couple of months, some are worthless before they get out (quad battery module anyone?).
            The charged $5000 for R1 M to MX sensor upgrade, today they are selling that same MX chip for $4000, wrapped in a R1 and an SSD module. What a fucking rip off.
            People paid $42000 for their Mono Epics weeks ago, $20k down the drain. I can go on but what’s the point.
            Buyers beware.
            I paid off my investment but I have no intention to keep supporting Red’s R&D while being told “obsolescence obsolete” lies.

          • And by the way, Red One was sold by Red until yesterday for $25000 in spite of being a 4 year old camera.
            Now it’s $4000. Poor suckers who gave Red money.

          • When computers and software compilers became cheap enough for everyone to be a programmer, the best programmers in the world suffered from the onslaught of kids pretending to be a programmer so much that I saw all of them on soup kitchen lines a few months later.

            Not.

        • Stay bitter, friendo

        • It’s how the world works. It was always like this. Companies milk things till the last moment. Thats the reason theyre companies, they want to profit. Honestly, the only one you can blame is yourself. And the whole thing about ‘kiddies running around with red’s that their mom bought’ is a laughable thought. Anyone who’s against other people getting into the business, is only afraid because he’ll lose profit.

          Of course, when someone who sucks, and outs you on a job, its irritating. But I highly doubt that credible businesses would hire people with no professional track record. So all in all youre just being a paranoid, who had a pretty decent life ( you were able to pay $120k off for red stuff as you’ve said) and now youre just angry that maybe more people will get the chance to step inside the industry.

          Imho, if youre any good, you dont need to drop any of your prices because a camera company did the same, your portfolio should speak for itself. But if you think otherwise, feel free to correct me.

  • Agni Ortiz on 11.2.12 @ 4:51PM

    Interestingly, Canon’s MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today. This is from canonrumors website: Canon is starting the enforcement of their MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) pricing rules today. Some camera bodies and lenses will see an immediate increase in their base price.
    For example Canon EOS 5D Mark III w/ EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS $4299.00 from $3949.00 and so other models as well.

    • I’ve defended Canon forever but jesus sometimes I think those guys aren’t aware they have competitors.

  • I would have thought Red would have waited until Sony officially released their prices on their new cameras so they were a bit more locked in, maybe this doesn’t change anything but Sony could drop their prices a bit now and no one would know.

  • how long will stocks of RED Ones last does everyone think?

  • Potentially very stupid question for RED One: If I get a Nikon mount, can’t I just mount a Canon lens with a Nikon to Canon adapter?

    • Just realized my own stupidity, a Nikon to Canon adapter doesn’t exist. Never owed anything Nikon but lenses.

    • You can change the mount…they’re probably pretty scarce, but the Birger Canon smart mount for the Red One is awesome.

  • Greg Moore on 11.3.12 @ 1:53PM

    Is RED planning on producing Red One Battle Tested MX cameras and selling them at $4,000 or are they just getting rid of what they have left?

    • Red One Camera Bundle for Sale

      RED Battery Charger w/ (3) Batteries
      RED Compact Flash 16GB Cards (4)
      RED Drive 640GB
      Petroff 4×4 and 4×5 Mattebox
      Red Dovetail
      Petroff/ Zuchuto Follow Focus
      Nikon Mount
      PL Mount
      (2)Pelican Cases w/ foam
      1 HDTV MONITOR FOR Viewing

      (1) Red LCD Cable
      (2) red drive cables

      Base Production Package:
      The Base Production Pack includes:
      (2) Universal Mount
      (2) RED handle (Right & Left)
      (1) RED Bottom Plate
      (1) Cheese Plate
      (1) Shoulder Dovetail
      (1) Top Mount
      (1) Top Handle
      (1) RED Cradle (including Battery Plate)
      (2) 18” Aluminum Rods
      (2) 12″ Steel Rods
      (2) 8″ steel rods for top mount
      (1) Drive clip-on holder for 19mm rods

      Bonus Included
      (2) Soft box daylight balanced / tungsten lights + monfrotto case
      (1) DV Cam Jib Crane (Can mount Red One)
      (1) FlyCam 5000 Vest and Steadycam (not meant for red but included in package – good for most DSLR)

      THIS PACKAGE IS BEING SOLD ALL AS ONE PACKAGE – ALL OR NOTHING – WONT BE SELLING CAMERA BODY SEPERATLY!!!

  • its not the kit…. its the content, you can still shoot s%”t on the best kit in the world.

  • 35mmdirector on 11.4.12 @ 12:20PM

    I like Red cameras. They have a great look and are definitely in the top three cameras in my opinion. However, I like the look of the Arri Alexa better, and I find the suggestion that serious work is not done on the Alexa is uninformed and even silly.

    The Arri Alexa is what they shot Skyfall, In Time, Drive The Avengers, and a multitude of films.plus, Joss Whedon switched from the Red Epic to the Alexa for the Avengers. The teaser scene they shot of Captain America in the gym, was shot on the Red Epic; they didn’t feel it worked for them and switched to the Alexa.

  • Markus Haken on 11.4.12 @ 5:16PM

    could anyone point out which accessories would be needed to get the red one going? (just basics)

    • john jeffreys on 11.4.12 @ 7:09PM

      -monitor (the red 5.6 and 7″ monitors are pretty cheap used, other than that, any hdmi/sdi works)
      -batteries (so red brick(s), charger, and mounting plate)
      -media (the cheapest redmag ssd is 48gb, 500 bucks, and you need the redstation reader. you can also use a red drive, which is 320gb or 640gb for a few hundred used, but its a big, heavy spinning disk so say hello to dropped frames)
      -lenses (PL mount or you can find the nikon mount used for cheap and use manual nikkors, etc)
      -rods, mechanical stuff like mounting arms and cheesplates and things, leave a hundred or two aside for that.

      • John,

        I heard that there is also cheaper option using V-mount batteries with adapter that could last longer. Not sure the pricing though. But based on the given by John here, the total additional item could cost additional USD 2-4k depending whether it is new or used.

        • john jeffreys on 11.4.12 @ 9:44PM

          Yeah, you can use any v-mount battery along with the red plate or 3rd party v mount plate. GMP (global media pro) seems to be a popular budget option…I believe Koo did an article on it/mentioned it back when he got his Scarlet.

          The one thing that a lot of people seem to overlook (including me, as I prepare to take the plunge into 4k for 4k land) is that you need a FUCKTON of accessories for a red, and the camera price is a fraction of the total package…I did not even mention a tripod (o’conner 50 seems to be the best for the budget, 50lbs weight at 1100 dollars used), a fast computer and tons of ext. hard drives, a well made shoulder mount, follow focus, etc.

  • Funny thing is, by the time I am able to afford a RED one they’ll either be sold out or something even better will come up. Crazy!

  • So I’m thinking one would want to get as many third party accessories solutions as possible instead of original red ones – so most of the additional cost is not spent on this one camera, but can be used in the future for other camera systems as well.
    I already figured one would have to bite the bullet regarding media (at least for now), so Redmag+Red Station it is.
    However when it comes to powering the beast, third-party would be the way to go. Anyway, I’m having a hard time finding everything that is needed to get a v-mount battery to power the R1. Is there a proper solution for mounting v-mount batteries (like the ones from GMP) to rods? I guess this would make more sense then to go directly onto the back of the R1, again in light of compatibility with other cameras.

  • Can anyone tell me if the hi bit rate CF cards like the lexar 600x compare at all in reliability and image quality to SSD/Red Mags??

    Could this be a good cost effective alternative to the expensive red mags? or is getting the Red one Mx with the CF slot just a waste ?

    Also can you even use 3rd party CF cards? or is it locked down to RED brand CF cards like with the SSD’s?

    Thanks!

    • David,

      I have asked the same question to a RED Rep that they assigned to help me in my purchase the same question (exactly). If he answered, I will provide you later. However, if Khoo can help (or Joe) they will intervene here.

      Thanks

    • Just got a reply from one of the REDuser member and here is his statement:
      “CF’s are a lot less expensive, but of course they hold less. I believe you have to use RED-branded CF cards…you can’t use most 3rd party CF cards (although I think some Lexar will work)…and I think the largest size RED card is 16GB. Also, even the RED-brand CF cards have limitations in data rate (REDCode) that they can record because of the read/write speed of the media…for example you can’t record REDcode 42 (the highest data rate). ”

      Hope that helps answering your question too David.

  • When will the red drop the prices?

  • how much cost red epic 5K EPIC-M Brain.. with movie lenses?

  • mahadev nare on 08.20.13 @ 3:11AM

    i like red epic camera , i want to buy. send me details and other suggestios.

  • mahadev nare on 08.20.13 @ 3:11AM

    i like red epic camera , i want to buy. send me details and other suggestions.

  • I would like to know where is the best place to get a red epic

  • I need the detailed for red latest camera & price

  • Genius moment… I read the article, got kinda excited, went to the website, found no 4k for 4k… After searching again and again, I checked the date of the post here on nofilmschool. Genious – it’s over a year old!

    #fail

    Perhaps they have other options being it’s been over a year?

    If Red would offer their 4.5k Red One with a CF that accepts 1000x cards and an HDMI out/Canon lens mount, you could get started pretty much right out of the gate. Same CF’s as a 5d3 (that shoots raw), same SmallHD HDMI monitor, it could rock the market for DSLR shooters moving up.

    But… I could see why Red wouldn’t want to do that – they charge big $$$ for all of the accessories and memory – probably making significantly less on their “brains” of the camera system. So, they don’t see a point in doing so. That is, unless they wanted to really quickly grow using some battle tested architecture.

    Travis
    Minneapolis MN Videographer
    http://www.providfilms.com

  • Good post. I’m going through some of these issues
    as well..

  • Lokesh Madhu on 06.23.14 @ 11:11AM

    Goodiformation

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