December 30, 2012

KineRAW S35 2K Camera Getting Active Canon Mount, EVF Bundle, iPad App, and More

We haven't heard much news about the KineRAW S35 since pre-orders began back in August. The Chinese-made 2K camera capable of shooting a few different flavors of RAW video to SSDs will come in well under $10,000 for a working package, and could make some noise once it finally begins shipping in the States sometime in 2013. It has already begun shipping in China, and Dan Chung over at DSLR News Shooter got his own recently, and he has some news about what Kinefinity has planned for the camera's future.

First, if you haven't seen it, here's one of the latest videos showing off the camera is from DSLR News Shooter's own Matthew Allard (some highlights were blown intentionally as he mentioned in our comments previously):

Taken from DSLR News Shooter, here is Dan Chung on the new developments for the S35:

Like the Red One when it was launched, the KineRAW is undergoing continual improvement even after launch. The newer firmware versions are said by Kinefinity to be more stable with image quality optimised for 640 ISO and its multipliers (1280, 2560 etc.) Firmware version 7997 was made available to download this week – this is an essential update for users.

 

The other big news is that they have an electronic EOS mount with aperture control in the works. This should be due in January and is said to work with most EOS lenses, with aperture control via a control knob on the camera body. The aperture value will be displayed on the camera’s LCD screen. The adapter is powered and controlled via the camera and is connected with a lemo connector on the front of the body. Sadly, image stabilisation will not be supported. But for shooters with a lot of EOS glass this adapter makes the KineRAW a much more attractive proposition.

They are also working on an iPad app that will allow you full control of the camera's settings. Here is the Chinese version, but there will also be one in English according to Dan:

Since the camera does not include any monitoring devices onboard to start with, Kinefinity is going to be working with Cineroid to bundle their Retina EVF with the camera for a lower price than purchasing separately, as well as a more budget-friendly non-Retina EVF:

It definitely looks like they are serious about firmware updates, and will be improving the camera regularly as well as adding new features when possible. It seems they also have a way to lessen the rolling shutter in the camera, but this may lower the image quality slightly and also lose you about a stop in dynamic range. Either way, this camera and the Blackmagic Cinema Camera may finally put some pressure on the big camera manufacturers to get really serious about their camera options under $10,000.

What do you guys think? Is the S35 still interesting to you, especially with all of the recent camera developments?

Link: Kinefinity

[via DSLR News Shooter]

Your Comment

42 Comments

The footage looks great, and RAW with an S35 sensor for sub-$10K? Jesus. Imagine if they offered slow-mo options, too... Bah, details. If the build quality's up to par, this really is an astonishing deal.

December 30, 2012

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No IS on the mount, so what? If you're buying this camera then you sure as hell have enough dough to get yourself a decent stedicam or shoulder rig. I've never understood the whole IS thing anyway - you don't see the big DOP's complaining about no IS on their super35mm primes...

December 30, 2012

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A fair point. I really appreciate IS for running around events with a monopod or worse (*cough*... neck strap used as dodgy stabiliser... body parts used as tripods). But, for anything properly planned and tripod-mounted, IS might even be more hindrance than help.

Might be worth adding that there's probably other small advantages to Canon cameras + Canon lenses apart from IS (like peripheral light correction; and I think the C300 might have some sort of chromatic aberration correction).

By the way, I think Matt Allard's Philip Bloom-esque profile piece is a good example that, even though the S35 is not a small camera, you can mount it with perfect stability in all sorts of places; and even though it doesn't have IS, you can use it for this sort of mini doc.

December 30, 2012

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Some where in Canons learning center I read that you do not want to use IS on tripod shots it actually creates movement in the lens when the camera will not shake from being hand held . They recommend turning it off for any video or still shot on a tripod.

January 3, 2013

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Gary Simmons

You know, not for nothing (I appreciate the news reporting), but for a site with a moniker of "No Film School", a lot of time is spent showcasing some rather expensive gear.

Everyone is looking for a piece of the pro-am and budget-friendly independent filmmaking market; it's kind of getting annoying.

December 30, 2012

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DIYFilmSchool

Think you've hit the nail on the head there.

I think since Ryan's stopped posting, it's become a split between highlighting new rig equipment for the click-through money, and a high-end gear-whore paradise.

December 30, 2012

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Fresno Bob

Sub-$10K raw cameras are budget friendly for independent filmmakers. Let's not forget that as with any "school" people graduate to higher levels that can accommodate more advanced tools. It's still clearly in the same league. There are plenty of tech advances well outside of the indie film league that don't get extensive coverage on NFS because they aren't relavent beyond a passing mention as a point of interest. The S35 is more than that or a lot of us. It's news worth keeping up with.

December 30, 2012

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We still post almost daily about DSLRs or other budget cameras, but it only makes sense that our coverage would expand with more resources. Also, just because something is expensive, doesn't mean you have to buy it - you can always rent it, and even if you're not renting it, knowing that it exists could potentially benefit you down the road. We have a much more varied audience than just people who are starting out for the first time. That's just like anyone who might have a specific camera in the title of their blog - that doesn't mean they only cover that one camera.

http://nofilmschool.com/tag/DSLR

http://nofilmschool.com/tag/cinemacamera/

December 30, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Joe, i really appreciate you posting about cameras like this. Through this website i have learned so much, my tastes and goals have grown as well though knowledge gained here. Two years ago i was all about film making with DSLRs , but as you stated, things change and i hope like my self more of your viewers have grown as well. With that said posts like this one are extremely relevant to myself and i thank you for taking the time to update us on this information.

This camera looks like an amazing product (almost alexa quality) and as my knowledge has evolved i am always excited to come back to this site and learn more about technology through posts like this that are within my reach.

December 30, 2012

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Matt

I'm glad it's helped - I know I continue to learn something new every day, and it was actually through reading this site in the beginning that I learned a lot of things I never would have learned in school.

December 30, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Right on Joe you guys have helped me go from can I do it with my T3i to yes I can and now I am ready to invest in a more expensive rig. You should cover both High and low end because we do want to move on up.
Never listen to people who say it's got to be this way or the highway you are doing an excellent job and there is nothing wrong with being noticed and courted by higher end gear advertisement. It shows that you got something going on. As long as you still provide the beginner with the same support that got me started you go for it man.

January 3, 2013

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Gary Simmons

...and reblogging about a very non-DSLR non-ENG cinema camera from a site called "DSLR News Shooter."

But that's just it, the story has moved forward. People were making low-budget films 10 years ago with ENG style DV cameras, and then the 5D2 showed up and all these sites sprung up with "5D" or "DSLR" in the name. And now that too seems anachronistic as genuine cinema cameras have broken through the $10K barrier. The standards have gone up as have the delivery opportunities. Not only do you not need film school, you don't need a rich uncle either to just about match the big boys in objective output quality or reach. And this is all happening right now, and coverage of the transition naturally generates the most views, comments and affiliate revenue.

In a few years this will all settle down as everyone will have fully satisfactory purpose-built equipment and will cast about trying to think up something to shoot with it. And the story then will be about the departments other than camera. There are as many non-camera articles posted here, you just can't resist reading the camera ones (nor can I). It's fun and easy to go shopping.

With the money you save not going to a 4 year accredited film school (as much as $100K or more), you can buy all the pro equipment you want and learn how to use it yourself in far less time. Doesn't mean you'll entertain many other people with your work but I'm not sure film school or reading non-camera articles would change that much.

Many of the other sites have truly rotted down to pure sales vehicles but this one retains good nutrition, allows respectful criticism without censorship, and doesn't have a severe house bias. It's my favorite of the couple dozen out there. Koo has found good writers while he works on his film and/or redesigning all this.

December 30, 2012

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Peter

The thing with affordable cinema cameras...is that they're affordable, lol. $10,000 is expensive, but it's not impossible... just expensive enough to be just out of reach.. (not me.. that's still closer to a new car than a 5D. lol) vs. what they were going for back in the F35 days... (wtf.) it's conflicting because people start crunching numbers to own rather than rent. DSLR's are still, "we're stills cameras first!" - mainly because they still rock moire / aliasing, 8 bit, same ol shitty codec.. Canons do great at high iso's in lowlight for a cleaner image, but are soft as hell. (dslr's that is.) Where they fall short, Panasonic picks up. Gh's can resolve a mens group of fleas having a circle jerk across the street. Canon's have customizable picture styles like Cinestyle for more freedom in post which i love, (and i actually prefer the way they see color over the Gh's.) ...etc... It's funny. back and forth.. enter BMC... backordered till the apocalypse. Small sensor. lmao. First guy to make one with the BMC's specs and a 35mm sensor for $3,000 so we're not bouncing around.... well.

December 30, 2012

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jeremy

DIYFilmSchool, be careful. That's a scary implication. To state that higher end gear (which I would argue this is not) doesn't belong on a site designed specifically for learning implies that there is a ceiling on what a "student" should be aware of. To not include news such as Red Epic upgrades, etc. limits the path of growth.

To be fair to your point, I am a working director/dp, so perhaps my interests lie in a different place than yours. However, when I was just starting out, I religiously consumed issues of American Cinematographer, even though I had no access to the gear they spoke of, nor really understanding what it was they were even doing with it. Sticking with it and learning about things that were at the time beyond me was one of the most valuable things I ever did for my own education. I would assume that's one of the main points of this site, no?

All that aside, I'm very excited about this camera and the (rumored) Mini Kineraw follow up. Give me some dynamic range and a large sensor and I'll be a happy camper.

- Andrew

December 30, 2012

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Well put. Regardless of your education level, it's imperative to stay abreast of the direction the industry is moving. More often than not this will include discussion about gear, techniques and many more things that are far out of reach for the no-lo filmmaker. What an absurd suggestion by DIYFilmSchool that NoFilmSchool is getting out of its league. Besides, since when does your education level correlate directly with your budget?

January 2, 2013

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Brian

NFS is all about gear, perhaps to appease advertisers but it seems that's what filmmakers want. Tangible devices are hope, that optimistically it will take us to the high road, but realistically it leaves us in the poorhouse with greater indebtedness to phat-and-getting-phatter financial institutional giants. Hustling for grants is a hassle, no fun, 'doesn't make people feel good like a $10k Chinese apparatus in our crusty hands. Gear is god? Bring on god!

December 30, 2012

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Jimmy S.

Why the hell are you getting sodomized by haters all the sudden? lol. hats off to you man for this site. I don't think articles with Screenplays from working Hollywood writers has anything to do with expensive gear...But whatever. I see tons of resources on here with no ulterior motives other than to teach something. Thanks for doing it man.

December 30, 2012

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jeremy

Not really sure...Glad you appreciate the effort, we work hard every day to bring relevant topics to the community.

December 30, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

yes I 2nd that. don't be a hater - if you don't like the news story you don't have to read it and certainly don't have to comment on it. NoFilmSchool is my favorite film blog. I like seeing high end and low end gear. There's lots of different great articles. Something for everyone.

December 30, 2012

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Ed David

+ 3

Why people bother ragging a place where they can choose to read free articles OR NOT is beyond me. If I don't like a site, I vote with my feet (or fingers). Silly anyway. Very clear that all NFS bloggers are passionate about our craft and the site, and do an excellent job. Blows most other sites away and as such is my preferred aggregate film making site. It's just a pity about some of the readership it attracts. But you get that I guess.

December 31, 2012

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Speak for yourself. Most of us here actually work with this gear.

December 30, 2012

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that's awesome.....

i feel like a noob in the company of true badasses.

What does that have to do with anything I said, lol...? I was addressing the vibe in the thread that this was a sellout site focused on advertising.

December 30, 2012

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jeremy

@ jeremy - My comment wasn't directed at you. I totally agree with what you had to say and wasn't trying to kick any attitude. I was responding to "Jimmy S" who seemed to be projecting his own creative frustrations onto others re being taken advantage of by giant companies attempting to consumerize indie filmmaking. My point was just that these are tools we are talking about. Tools are things you use; not things you worship or wear as a status symbol. You buy them, sell them, rent them, break them, use the hell out of them, and hopefully make worthwhile stuff with them. The stuff you make is what matters. Gear is interesting, but it's nothing to get all emo about.

December 31, 2012

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Well, NFS is becoming one of the best sources for news about all aspects of cinema right now. When Roger Deakins himself takes the time to comment on your site, you are doing something right.

December 31, 2012

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Keep it to yourself, man. Since when does education level dictate budget? That's an absurd assertion. You'll find plenty of film school graduates (a number of people that I graduated with, for example) floundering or flipping burgers, and plenty of no-film-schoolers working in top-dollar production.

If you're annoyed by what NoFilmSchool are posting, avert your eyes.

January 2, 2013

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Brian

the no-film schoolers working on top flight productions
are just people who wrote killer scripts.

January 3, 2013

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sammy

This camera looks very promising. Good form factor great specs and the images from the documentary were very beautiful. Fine grain shallow DOF and great resolution. I'm excited to see this camera blossom. But to be honest I'm done with these camera posts. As your websites name "no film school" post some lessons for us. Maybe how to light a certain way or how to achieve certain shots. I would appreciate that more than reading about a camera.

December 30, 2012

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Caleb

Why he's not posting as much... Ryan's making a feature film.

As someone working on DSLR shoots all the time (and also shooting with BMC) I appreciate both the gear coverage and the other creative department articles.

December 30, 2012

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Newman

Aside from monitor, what else is needed to make this camera operational?

December 30, 2012

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VINCEGORTHO

A battery of some kind and an SSD.

December 30, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Also hope to hear more about kineRAW... If it works well it will certainly influence future offerings from BMD, Canon, Sony et. al

December 30, 2012

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Newman

Very interested in this cam and have spoken with the company a number of times. They take a LONG time to get back to you. :-) But at least they do. I've also had long, um, odd conversations with Dan Hudgins out of San Fran who is/was involved with them. They are actually planning to release that 8mm version. If you have that glass, hang on to it.

I also know Dan Chung. Dan is a no-nonsense cameraman in the proud London tradition. He does not suffer fools. If he's actually bought one, and persuaded Matt Allard (also no idiot) to shoot with it, this camera is for real. I also like the flexibility of the lens mounts, and the upcoming 'sport' mode, promising 2K 50fps is a very sexy idea.

I've only held off buying so far because of, well, plain fear. That anxiety is declining with every one of Dan's posts.

Re the other issue: in our office we have guys & girls fresh out of high school (!) and people like me who remember Steenbecks and 1 inch tape. People who shoot with T2is and people who own their own EPIC. People making their first short, and a lot of us who have worked many major features. I constantly forward different articles from this site to different people. I've written this before: this is the best all-round site for post-2008 indie filmmaking.

December 30, 2012

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marklondon

"I’ve written this before: this is the best all-round site for post-2008 indie filmmaking."

I second that motion.

December 30, 2012

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Thanks everyone for the feedback, positive and negative! We're proud of how far we've come and we're always trying to improve, so we appreciate hearing from you either way...

December 30, 2012

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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

2k. Snore.

December 30, 2012

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Mark

I played with this camera, worse rolling shutter I have ever seen, a medium/slow speed pan on a 35 mm lens looked horrendous

December 30, 2012

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Mikki

Where did you play with it? We're very keen to get our hands one.

December 30, 2012

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marklondon

If that report is true, I thank you for it...

Uhm....Dan? Should the Kineraw be nicknamed the Cannotpan?

December 31, 2012

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Peter

Hey guys it's your Blog and it's a readable one so post whatever you think is appropriate.

Besides... wingers are free to fuck off if they don't like the articles.

December 31, 2012

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Skeptikal

Got word from Kinefinity.com (sm) that they will be going to NAB 2013 in Las Vegas (in April),

http://www.nabshow.com/

Quote: [Our booth number in this coming NAB is C12813.]

So if you have wanted some 'hands on' time with their cameras, this will be the first time they are showing them outside China as far as I know.

I've been shooting some additional test footage with both the KineRAW-S35 (tm) and the prototype KineRAW-S8p (tm) and may post that on my Vimeo page when I get it edited together. They are working on a demo reel for showing at NAB 2013, so if you have any suggestions of shots you would like to see you can email them and ask them to have one of their field testers shoot something like what you would like to see maybe so that when you go to NAB 2013 you can see how it turned out. They said they will have cameras there you can look over, and maybe the KineRAW-S35-mini (tm) they are still working on, its a smaller version with the same high quality 100% true RAW DNG recording and S35 sensor with sub-PL mount for using a wide range of movie and still lenses, as I understand it, you can email them for detailed specs if you are interested.

Also the MSRP and shipping should be lower for the KineRAW-S35-mini (tm). So jot down booth C12813 if your going to NAB this year and say high, they have been developing these cameras for many years, and the larger KineRAW-S35 (tm) has been in field testing in China (in addition to the one I got to do calibrations in the monitoring with). They said they are very busy putting cameras together to ship out, so, so far things seem to be going well for them.

February 1, 2013

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Its possable that the production KineRAW-S8 (tm) will be jell-o and skew free, they are reviewing the changes needed which is why the S8 has not gone into production yet, it you would like to email them and suggest that they talk to me about the changes needed to get jell-o and skew free shooting modes feel free to do so, its important that they know how important that is to many filmmakers, to get away from the HDSLR issues etc.

February 1, 2013

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