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February 21, 2013

Canon C300 Price Drops to $14K, Plus Some New 7D Mark II DSLR Rumors

A little over a week ago, there was a rumor that Canon would be introducing a brand new digital cinema camera between the C300 and the C100 at NAB 2013. At that time, the C300 was retailing for $16,000 and the C100 could be had for $6,500. In terms of the price difference, it was feasible for there to be a camera in-between (even if spec wise it doesn't make much sense). Now, Canon has dropped the C300 price by $2,000 until April 30th for both EF and PL models, and it very well could be a permanent price drop. We've also got a rumor of a replacement 24 Megapixel camera for the aging Canon 7D. So what does that mean for the rest of their product lines?

The price drop makes me less inclined to think that they will bring out a camera between the C100 and the C300 -- but the $2,000 off the current C300 definitely makes it look like a little better of a deal, especially for those who may be in the market for a second camera body. If you were looking at C300s, now might be a better time than ever since the camera is barely a year old, and likely won't be replaced or superseded by a better model for at least another year. Either way, what it does make me think is that Canon may be more likely to introduce a C50 or 7D C -- which brings us to the 7D Mark II rumor.

Here is Canon Rumors on the 7D Mark II rumors:

It was also mentioned that their could be as many as 3 prototype configurations of the camera out there, and this one of them.

Specifications

  • 24.1mp APS-C Sensor
  • Dual DIGIC V
  • 10fps
  • Dual Memory Card Slots (Unknown configuration)
  • 61 AF Points (I wonder if we’ll get red focus points in AIS?)
  • 3.2″ LCD
  • Build quality like 5D3
  • GPS & Wifi
  • $2199 ($500 more than the 7D at launch, I’d like to see such a camera come in under $2000)
  • ISO Performance to get close to the 5D3
  • “Lots of video features”

Something else that has been rumored before, is a possible C50 camera coming in below the C100. While it's unclear exactly what Canon would strip away, we've also heard about a video focused camera in a DSLR body, possibly a 7D C. Could this be referring to the above 7D Mark II? The current Canon 7D is a workhorse, and it was the first DSLR from the company to natively shoot 24p -- and plenty of them are still in use now. The video quality is fine for most uses (obviously you can get great results with any camera), but we know Canon can (and probably should) do better with a second version.

Canon 7D HDSLR DSLR VDSLR

This new camera could be a miniature version of the 1D X, which makes a lot of sense from a product line point of view -- having different tiers of consumer, semi-pro, and professional APS-C and full-frame cameras. We know the new 1D C is capable of great video in its 1080p Super 35mm mode, but they haven't extended that same quality down to the 1D X (even though they are almost the same camera). That doesn't make me hopeful the new 7D Mark II will have any better video quality than the 1D X since they are both photo cameras, but Canon could certainly introduce two models based on the same body as they've already done, only this time with a 7D Mark II for one price, and a 7D C with better video for a bit more money.

Will this actually happen? Who knows, but they've been pretty conservative with their offerings over the past couple of years. With increased competition from Nikon, however, a DSLR with video quality almost as good as the C100/C300 would probably sell well. It may be expensive for some people's A camera, but a $3,000 7D C would be a great B camera or crash cam for tons of productions, especially those who don't necessarily need or want the 4K or high prices of the 1D C.

At the moment this is just speculation, but we can definitely expect to see the 7D replacement in 2013 at some point, and I'm sure more details will be revealed near or at NAB, and certainly in the coming months.

What do you think about the price drop on the C300? Do you think that means anything for the rest of the Cinema EOS line? What would you like to see out of a 7D Mark II? Would you pay more than $2,200 for a 7D Mark II with better quality video?

Links:

Your Comment

61 Comments

What does that do to the 1DC pricing/positioning?

February 21, 2013

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sean

I think the 1D C is still a specialty camera. It's going to be a crash cam, and it's got an audience with people who've got plenty of money and want a nice and small camera that can shoot great video.

February 22, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

2 Major studios bought quite a few 1DC's from a vendor I deal with. They won't be using them for crash cams by the way. Cheers.

February 22, 2013

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Ron

I wouldn't doubt it, and I didn't mean they would only be crash cams, but I'd be very, very surprised if it's an A cam on any movie with a budget over $10 million, especially with everything else out there.

February 22, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

no apparently when you say something it has to be completely correct or it is COMPLETELY wrong. sigh. animosity on these boards is rampant. love the posts guy keep it up.

February 22, 2013

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biagio

Haha I actually don't think he was being aggressive, but I felt like clarifying anyway. Either way appreciate the support. :)

February 22, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

No, but it will be the B cam. (not the C cam). Lot of love for that camera.

February 22, 2013

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marklondon

@biagio,
Only relaying a little info from what a vendor told me in which he said 2 major studios bought alot of 1DC's . You shouldn't be offended as there isn't anything wrong in saying they won't be used for "crash cam". They will be using them for other production aspects. Cheers.

February 22, 2013

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Ron

Hey Joe, just wondering what the term "crash cam" means. Thanks in advance! :-)

February 22, 2013

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Its a camera you leave in a vulnerable position while filming a stunt. Although often encased in a steel box, usually it gets beaten up, or in some cases, destroyed. If you ever see that shot of a truck about to hit the camera directly and it cuts away just as it does - that's a crash cam. Michael Bay's famous freeway shoot for The Island destroyed about 12 'crash cams'.

February 22, 2013

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marklondon

If they dropped that price another 2 to 4 grand I'd buy one tomorrow.

February 21, 2013

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If you're willing to buy from eBay, you can get C300s for around $12k, sometimes cheaper. Just do a search.

February 22, 2013

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You can find Sony F3s on eBay for ~8k.

February 22, 2013

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pat

...and that's still 3k more than I'd pay for one. Great cam, but its not got a long shelf life.

February 22, 2013

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marklondon

i will pay for Canon 7D mark II body approxim. 8.000$ if it has this spec.
1. Full 4K resol. 4096x2160, (5K, 6K or more)
2. 120-300 fps FULL HD 1920x1080
3. video quality - color depth 16-24 bit RAW footages
4. 35-70 mm sensor
5. anamorphic spec. setting in camera
6. audio 24-32 bit 192 KHz
7. Photo - 50-60 Megapixels, 1-24fps RAW/ 1-30 fps jpegs

February 21, 2013

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Mher Hakobyan

8. bitrate of video - 200Mbit - 1 Gbit

February 21, 2013

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Mher Hakobyan

One can only dream.

February 22, 2013

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Hubert Hotte

i dreamed to have 1 TB RAM for my computer, it's already produced M/board which support 1.5 TB.

February 22, 2013

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Mher Hakobyan

I'm going to guess that you won't have to worry about paying for that camera, then.
:-P

February 22, 2013

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Blah

Keep Dreaming

February 22, 2013

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Alexis

A camera with that spec can not be a 8000$ camera !!!!!!!

February 22, 2013

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your Limited brain does not allow to think differently. think that it can be cheaper than 8000$, think better than the world camera producers create, for example RED anounced 6k sencor, Canon 5-6 years producing 1080p and 4k but extremely expensive, in the competition Canon is succumbing, because when we compare Canon 1Dc and RED scarlet, RED is killing with 4k 16 bit RAW against 4k 8 or 10 bit mjpeg, RED has 120fps (720p), canon has not 120fps only 50/60 fps FULL HD, same 50/60 fps has RED scarlet

http://www.thefilmmakersworkshop.com/movie-cameras/cannon-1-dc/

February 28, 2013

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Mher Hakobyan

The Japanese are currently devaluing the value of the Yen to increase their trade. I wonder if this has anything to do with that? and if so what might come next?

February 22, 2013

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Yeah, I been hoping to see better Canon prices since they mentioned devaluation.

February 23, 2013

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fiftybob

"ISO performance to get close to the 5D3"

I suppose it's all in how you define close, but considering that the best APS-C on DxOMark for Low-Light ISO score is the D5200 which scored 1284 ISO.

DxOMark sports (low-light ISO) score

D600 2980 ISO

D800E 2979 ISO

D4 2965 ISO

5D3 2293 ISO

APS-C

D5200 1284 ISO

7D 854 ISO

Considering the huge disparity between FF and APS-C for high ISO shooting the claim that the 7D II will get near the 5D3 sounds unlikely.

So even if the 7D II improved high ISO shooting by 1 EV (an unprecedented highly unlikely amount to improve) it still won't get anywhere near the 5D3. Even if the 7D II were to use a new sensor designed by Sony or Toshiba, we just can't expect it to be significantly better than the D5200 or D7100 and to reach the 5D3 levels is simply not going to happen.

In video mode, it may be possible. For still photography, there is no way it will improve so significantly, I'm sorry to say.

February 22, 2013

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Markus

Considering that the T3i and T4i share the same sensor as the current 7D, but cost as little as $450, I'm wondering who would consider buying a 7D MkII for $2200 ? It would have to be exponentially better than the current 7D and samesensor cameras.
And even if it was, pricewise it's way too close to the 6D, so how will they differentiate it from that camera (which is fullframe, so hard to beat the low light performance).

February 22, 2013

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They don't need to differentiate it pricewise from the 6D. Some just want to stick around the S35 sensors (that includes me). Also built quality will be probably closer to the 5D3 than the 6D. 5D3 is their flagship full grame and 7D2 will be their flagship APS-C. 6D does not enter the equation.

February 22, 2013

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Not every one films. 10fps over 3.6fps is a big enough reason for a lot of people. Also, watch the Digital Rev test video. They couldn't get the 7D to stop working. I doubt my T3i would work after being frozen in a big ice cube.
Wonder if Magic Lantern will happen for it though?

February 22, 2013

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I would love a Canon DSLR with 2.5K resolution up to 60fps and a proper codec... Can't be that hard...

February 22, 2013

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Fotis

Hows the 2.5K will benifit you? post?

February 22, 2013

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Alexis

I'd definitely like 2.5k for post.

February 23, 2013

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Casey

Agreed. The ability to blow up and reframe for 1080 delivery would be great.

March 1, 2013

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JohnK

I see shots like this coming from the BMCC and the C300 is just a joke for the price, even after the drop: http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?2917-Testing-BM-(desert-low-light-night-macro)

February 22, 2013

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Voltaire

holyshit balls!

February 22, 2013

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Chris Lambert

That stuff looks great.

I've heard from dealers that they receive 7 or 8 at the beginning of every month. If you haven't preordered you're looking at the end of the year before you could get one.

A 7D doing 2.5K (even MJPEG) would be sweet right now.

February 22, 2013

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Travis Jones

Guys from pre order April last year are receiving their cameras now... Just take a look at bmcuser... It's just crazy.

February 22, 2013

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Alex Mand

I don't know, some people's 2013 orders have been delivered...just depends on where you ordered from.

February 22, 2013

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Gabe

That's correct. If you read ALL of bmcuser there are those that have received them within a month. My info is that they are now shipping about 100 a month.

February 22, 2013

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marklondon

tangent from voltaire, what a surprise!

February 22, 2013

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ryan

Judging by that comment I'm guessing you haven't actually used either camera?

February 22, 2013

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Peter Kelly

Now it would probably cost me less to buy a return ticket from Australia to America and buying a c300 than getting one in aus....

Now if canon dropped 2k off the c100, that would be a very competitive camera amongst lowbudget doco filmmakers. I'd seriously consider getting on then.

February 22, 2013

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Zeb

They'd need to drop the price lot more to make this cam competitive... same goes for C100 and C500. After F5/F55 announcement C300&C500 feel way too crippled for their prices.

February 22, 2013

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ts

Agreed. The C300 should be US10k, the C100 around $5k based on features. But as the poster below points out, they are a terrific working machine as is. They are still selling well.

February 22, 2013

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marklondon

But with $2000 price drop it's apparent that they are not selling as well as they were while back...

February 22, 2013

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ts

Maybe. The C-line seems aimed at what certain professional users are equipped to use RIGHT NOW. Unlike some of the Sony's cams, neither the C300 nor C100 have been positioned as future-proof products. As such, the first round of C offerings might be repositioned or replaced fast than we imagine. Poor sales might still be a factor, sure, but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that the C300 is doing well. It's reasonable to assume a price reduction implies disappointing sales, but think it's just as reasonable to assume Canon is shuffling its current round-up to pave the way for a second generation of products. It's also possible that Canon feels it has saturated the market that obviously benefits from the C300, and that to continue expanding, they need to compete with Sony's pricing. This doesn't mean that sales are poor, just that Canon is moving into another phase of its strategy.

None of the above is meant to defend Canon's pricing; I'm just providing another point of view on what the sales drop would mean.

FWIW, a $3000 DSLR with a sharp Super 35 crop mode (like the 1D-C) and a decent codec would sell. No 4K, no ND filters, no XLR inputs-- such a device would be compromised enough to protect the C100 but a big enough jump over the current DSLRs to motivate step-ups. The jump from a T3i to a C100 is pretty big. Even a 6D or 5D Mark III to a C100 isn't trivial. Canon clearly hasn't built the C-line with DSLR-style indies in mind, but I doubt they want to cede that market to others. A $3000 7D-C makes sense in the line-up. If Canon gave us the device I described above along with decent frame rate options (e.g. at least 60 fps at 1080p and 120 fps at 720p), I think it'd remain a great seller at even $4000. Yes, this would stomp into the 1D-C territory a little, but this theoretical 7D-C would still like full frame/ ASP-H coverage, 4K, and all the 1DX video features. Given that the majority of 1D-Cs aren't being bought by people who rely on DSLRs, I think that separation could work.

February 22, 2013

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Mike

Someone please explain this to me, the C series cameras are for people who operate in a certain fashion, they never want a single headache from their camera, they want a camera that can work very well without accessories, they want to be able to hold it in their hands, they want a small bit rate that still delivers fantastic quality, they don't want to swap cards, they want to shoot none stop, they want treatment of footage to be quick and minimal even shooting log. Some one please explain what other cameras are providing products for these needs, which is most consistently working professionals. 4:4:4, 12 bit and/or RAW will not get you more set ups in a shoot day. I hate that things that only make theoretical sense are driving down the price of things that make practical sense.

February 22, 2013

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ryan

Its an interesting point. Surely value doesn't just lie in the spec sheet.
Ease of use means you are more productive with your time, and time is money.
IMO however, this camera seems more like the new "Scoopic" -- a more in-the-trenches workhorse
than the name "Cinema" camera suggests. But then, whats in a name?

February 22, 2013

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ruben huizenga

The first c100 promo was a little confusing but their latest featured short film did 90 set ups in two days, a production can buy a BMC just based on the time saved by using a C series camera.

February 22, 2013

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ryan

The "C" is designated for "cinema" - the "C" series isn't designed for people that want to pull-off a lot of set-ups in one day, it's for people that want a cinematic image. Period.

If you want to pull off heaps of set-ups in a single day, you could do it with an FS100/AF100. Hell, if you watch the making of "28 Days Later", you can see that you could even pull it off with a Canon XL1s.

If you are more interested in the final look over how many set-ups you can pull off in one day, then there are better cameras than the C300 in this regard. Whether people like it or not, the $3000 BMCC, though not ergonomically perfect by a long-shot, will give a better image than a C300 - and I'm not talking about RAW. I'm talking in 10bit ProRes at either 110Mbps or 220MBps - more dynamic-range, more bit-depth, more superior codec. You probably wont get as many shots by the end of the day as you would with the C300, but if overall image quality is your concern, then a BMCC, for example, is superior in regards to final image quality.

Personally, if I had $16,000 to burn on a new camera, I'd go the Sony F5 - internal 2K with 14stops of DR at up to 120FPS at 10-Bit 4:4:4 110/220/440/880 Mbps - now that's a company that respects it's customer's dollar.

February 22, 2013

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Voltaire

The specs have got the better of you, image quality no longer matters, almost all cams deliver on that now, all that matters is the feel of the camera, if thats appropriate for the shoot, and how it handles while shooting. Dogging a pro camera is like a painter saying purple sucks I'll never use it. Hating on your own tools is an excuse, and it will limit you.

February 24, 2013

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Ryan

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