April 9, 2013

NAB Video: Blackmagic 4K and Pocket Cameras

As we all know by now, Blackmagic has shocked again with their announcement of not one, but two new cameras at this year's NAB. Get more intimate details in this video from our coverage partners over at FreshDV:

One piece of notable information here is regarding the 4K camera's sensor: it retains the S35 sensor crop when shooting in 1920 x 1080. This means to create the 1080 image they are using the full sensor and downsampling as opposed to cropping the sensor, creating an undesirable crop factor. These cameras are available at the end of July.

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100 Comments

"These cameras are available at the end of July".

I really truly hope so.

April 9, 2013

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Gus

Impressed with how directly he answered the delay question. I think the pocket camera is a no brainer. I mean everyone can grab one of those bad boys. Who wouldn't?

April 9, 2013

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I wouldn't. With a sensor that small, you'd need pretty expensive lenses to achieve a shallow depth of field at reasonable focal lengths. Yes, 1k bucks für 12 stops DR & RAW is a steal, but I'd rather go for the S35 4K BMCC instead. It will be worth spending 4k $ on.

April 9, 2013

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Heiko

I'm not a fan of the ultra shallow dof. I've shot 16mm with the bolex several times and I never had issues with achieving the dof I need. Lenses don't have to be expensive. Russian lenses exist.

April 9, 2013

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It just challenges you to figure out new ways of shooting. Lots of great stuff has been shot on 16mm. I plan on starting with the pocket camera and once my work requires the higher quality, I'll get the newest version of the BMCC. This will probably be a few years from now so ill get more bang for my buck. I'd also have an awesome B camera to use.

April 9, 2013

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Julian

Absolutely! 16mm is still used today. This shallow dof fascination is due to DSLR movement and filmmakers thinking that is what make images "cinematic". 16mm looks great and you still can achieve shallow dof.

Also one camera can't rule them all. I plan to use the pocket camera, the BMCC4k, as well as my Canon DSLR together. These are simply tools (incredible tools) one must find what the camera can't do well and find ways around that. There will always be some downside.

April 9, 2013

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Cosign , With a VOIT or SLR MAGIC 0.95 15MM OR 25mm 0.95 or even 17mm panasonic DEPH of fied is not a problem, trust DOF will not be hard to acheive.

The last thing we need are overly blown out youtube web and music video footage from you cousin t2i B-ROLL footage.

April 9, 2013

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JayClout

Wow. Actual common sense.

April 9, 2013

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marklondon

yup, shallow DOF as it overused today is quite ugly

April 17, 2013

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soulofsound

13 stops of DR

April 9, 2013

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Roy

In my opinion the dynamic range is more cinematic than shallow DOF. But you do have to be able to get shallow enough to focus the audiences attention, but that's easy enough with a long shallow lens, wide stuff needs to be in focus anyway.

April 9, 2013

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Julian

Agreed :)

April 13, 2013

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Grey

Actually alot of TV shows were shot on Super 16 until the Alexa came out. "One Tree Hill" shot for about 6 Seasons on Super 16 and it looked great. So it's very possible to get a nice shallow depth of field out of a Super 16 Camera.

April 9, 2013

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Charles Stewart

Shows and even movies are still shot on super 16. Walking Dead is shot on super 16. So was Moonrise Kingdom. I'm definitely choosing this camera over upgrading to the gh3. Now I can get prores hq right out of the box without using my Ninja.

April 9, 2013

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Philip

Yep. And this will be even more sensitive than actual 16mm film. Also remember, 35mm film was used in the past because of the color/DR/grain, not for the sallow DOF. This super16mm sensor is the same design as the 2.5k BMCC, and it almost no noise under 1600 ISO. It'll have all the characteristics people used 35mm film for, but with deeper DOF. It might actually prove to be a better filming tool for some.

April 10, 2013

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bwhitz

This is clearly someone who has no experience shooting S16 and has been lured in by large sensor hype. With S16, you have the option to move to C mount lenses. Which can be found for pennies, which have outstanding image quality and can be found at apertures as lower as F1.1 The reality is the literally the opposite of what you state.

April 9, 2013

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Steve

Watch Academy Award winner for cinematography "Skyfall", and cound how many times they used ultra shallow DOF....you can count it on your fingers. There's a proper way of using dof purposefully..and majority of the time..it isn't. Cinematic look is more of color, detail, and dynamic range.

April 9, 2013

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quobetah

There was a recent Roger Deakins profile in ASC. He mentions his distaste for ultra shallow DOF, and states that one of the things that fascinates him is "people in their environment". So I imagine he doesn't usually blur the hell out of the background. Coen Brothers working with him on No Country mentioned that they asked him to get a cutaway of the watch, but he filmed it in such a way that it was about the landscape as well, which they thought was interesting and important for the movie.

But, I do think most people, including Deakins, would agree that it's just taste at the end of the day -- and what suits the scene and the project. If people run around shooting everything at f/0.95, more power to them, as long as it "works".

April 10, 2013

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I had exactly this discussion with my girlfriend the other day, talking about how the over-use of shallow DOF can isolate an audience from the world of the film.

Did you see Side Effects by Steven Soderbergh? Almost every shot in that was as shallow as he could get it. As a result, it placed an enormous burden on Jude Law's face to be his only source of characterisation- the script sure wasn't helping him! Those scenes could have been shot anywhere. I bet the set designer was angry as hell when they saw it for the first time.

April 10, 2013

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Or wait for metabones MFT speedbooster....

April 10, 2013

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kyle reid

??!?

Voigtländer f/0.9 en 17,5mm et 25mm
SLR MAGIC 12mm f/1.6 et 25mm f/0.9
Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 ou f/1.2
...

April 10, 2013

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Grégoire

Its easier to achieve shallow depth of field with longer lenses on 16mm anything above 25mm at around f4 will give you a very nice depth of field... i am so excited for the pocket as i shoot a lot of super 16mm still much to the bafflement of people until they see the images and have some great arri zeiss superspeeds t1.3 the widest being and let me tell you wide angle is no problem with the 9mm lens, just shot a documentary in the cramp bespoke workshops below savile row and had no problems with getting shallow dof and wide angles... especially with super speeds as they have such a close focus distance they are near macro. also the gh3 zoom lens is amazing and again has no problem with dof. people just get caught in the hype big sensor x shallow = cinema which it does not... artistic composition, lighting, colour, lens choice = cinema... shallow dof screams vimeo and hipster these days unless used for effect or reason.

April 10, 2013

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JBV

Excuse for my noob question. I am seeing all this 4k hype all over the internet and wondered if still make sense to buy a HD camera to shoot movies or shorts. I know the camera is relatively cheap, but is there a risk of falling short once 4k is adopted?

April 11, 2013

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Premini

I would actually put out the money for Leica lenses to go with that camera. That'd be amazing.

April 10, 2013

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pat

Have you seen footage from it? I haven't, but I certainly am going to wait until I do before I think about getting one. I mean, the image could be really soft, or really noisy, or the color could be really bad, or any number of things. I doubt this will be the case but without knowing anything at all about the sensor it seems a bit presumptive to decide on getting one.

April 9, 2013

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cows

It's exactely the same as a 1080p crop from a current BMC image. Same sensor, same color science, same everything, just a smaller active sensor area.

April 9, 2013

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hansd

I believe these new cameras use CMOSIS parts and that the original used sensors from a BAE subsidiary whose name I forget.

April 9, 2013

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nobody

They have a new CCD sensor... That allows the global shutter....And explains why they couldn't get the 13 stops DR as the original BMC

April 10, 2013

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Leo

the 4K camera has a new sensor, not the pocket one

April 10, 2013

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hansd

Where'd you hear that? On the video right on this page, at 7:45, he says "the new cameras have new sensors." I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but I'm not sure I'd automatically trust you over him, either.

April 9, 2013

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cows

given the history of BM staff talking false about their new camera(s) at NAB, you can actually trust ANYBODY over them ;)

April 10, 2013

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hansd

I've seen the footage from the first BMCC so I know the target quality of Blackmagic. Also I know color is Blackmagic's thing. To me it seems like Blackmagic is trying to create cameras for each level. Therefore, they should be able to cut together well.

Trust me I always wait to see footage. I expect this to have a great image and therefore it'll be a no brainer since it's so affordable. I didn't pre-order, I'm just confident based off of what I seen from their version 1 camera that the image will be great. I'm the wrong person to accuse of buying into something before I seen it. I'm one of the few who didn't hit the pre-order button on the first BMCC.

April 9, 2013

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The Hurt Locker was shot on S16 and it looked great, There are plenty of people shooting with large sensors and it still looks crap.

April 10, 2013

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Tulio

16mm film and 16mm sensor are different animals.

April 10, 2013

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Kenneth Merrill

Yes, they are. And the S16 Sensor in the Pocket Cam will produce a larger frame than S16 Film.

Thanks for pointing that out. =]

April 10, 2013

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Kholi

You obviously know even less about film stock than you do about this camera.

April 10, 2013

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Kenneth Merrill

i can confirm the image wasnt soft or noisy. i got to to see it at the booth and was very impressed. very filmic

April 9, 2013

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Mark K

Good to hear.

April 9, 2013

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cows

Had no doubts based off of Blackmagic's already established image standards.

April 9, 2013

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I saw it as well and it looks every bit as good as my bmcc.

April 9, 2013

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Jason

Mark are you referring to the BMPC4k or the Pocket or both?

April 10, 2013

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Stu Mannion

I have a BMCC MFT on preorder right now.
do you guys think the 4K model is worth the extra wait? I don't want to purchase an obsolete camera.

also, the cost of the BMCC MFT +Metabones Speedbooster is only $400 less than the 4K camera, which solves the crop factor issue, and you also get 4K.
I am more concerned about overall image quality than resolution specifically, so I am also curious to know how much of a difference the 12 stops of DR the 4K camera has from the BMCC v.1

April 9, 2013

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Luke Lasley

Firstly... Yes I you should cancel and order the 4k.. You have a few months to offset the extra $1000 and the benefit of 4K sampling down to 1080p is just priceless.

Secondly, the Speed booster does not and will never work with the BMCC, it is designed for cameras with a short flange depth.... ie. NEX and Fuji X cameras. So that is another reason to bump up to the S35 version.

April 9, 2013

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Tom

I'm sorry, but if you have a MFT version of the BMCC, the flange distance is in fact that of MFT, not EF, so you can perfectly use the SpeedBoster.
What you can't do is change the aperture or make use of IS in electronic EF lenses, but as long as they are manual (like the Samyang ones, or adapted Nikons, or FDs if Metabones makes an adapter) are perfectly useable and a great option to get S35 depth of field and field of view in the BMCC, with the added benefit of an extra stop.

April 9, 2013

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THIS.

The active micro four thirds mount on the BMPC should allow for IS on the Lumix glass such as the 14-140mm(which gets plenty wide , is plenty sharp - just not fast enough for all situations).

The speed booster on the BMPC will be amazing for legacy and cine glass.

April 16, 2013

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Jules

If you're too busy worrying about your camera being obsolete due to 1.5k more pixels, then you probably shouldn't be filming in the first place.

4k is a different animal for storage in RAW frames, so if you haven't even learned to do so in 2.5k (which is already more than enough for most unless you're outputting on IMAX 4k screens), you shouldn't be worried about filming anything in 4k.

Quit trying to keep up w/ the Jones'. This factor is so annoying with you guys.

April 10, 2013

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Smart way they create 1080 video in the s35. should make it easy to cut with a variety ofnother product on set. Well done bm!

April 9, 2013

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Mark Weston

Confused by the below quote, why would downsampling to 1080 create an undesirable crop factor? Seems desirable to me.

"One piece of notable information here is regarding the 4K camera’s sensor: it retains the S35 sensor crop when shooting in 1920 x 1080. This means to create the 1080 image they are using the full sensor and downsampling as opposed to cropping the sensor, creating an undesirable crop factor. These cameras are available at the end of July"

April 9, 2013

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Clayton Arnall

"Creating an undesirable crop factor" modifies the "cropping the sensor" clause, not the "using the full sensor" clause. Parse it like this and you'll see it says what you think it should say:

[This means to create the 1080 image they are using the full sensor and downsampling] as opposed to [cropping the sensor, creating an undesirable crop factor.]

April 9, 2013

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cows

Undesirable crop is like how the Red Scarlet does it. Instead of using the full sensor and downsampling, they crop the sensor which then crops your lenses. So by the time you get down to 1080p, you're at like a 2.6x crop or something ridiculous like that.

April 10, 2013

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