April 8, 2013

RED Dragon is Finally Here: Upgrade Schedule Announced, SCARLET Will Get Dragon Upgrade

RED is on a roll. With a stream of new products just announced, it seemed that they had done their damage for the day. However, now we've also got confirmation that not only is the Dragon finally ready, but that the Scarlet will be able to be outfitted with the new sensor. This is huge news for both EPIC and SCARLET owners alike. Read below for the scoop on the new update program.

According to Jarred Land at RED, starting Monday:

  • EPIC-M owners can pre-order the upgrade for $9500
  • Early adopters can pre-order the upgrade for $8500 ($1000 credit when invoiced)
  • New EPIC-M Dragon pre-orders begin tomorrow for $29k. Ships after existing Epic-M owners have had opportunity to upgrade.

And on Thursday:

  • EPIC-X non-early adopters can pre-order upgrade for $9500.

And here's a one of the first photos we've seen of the RED Dragon (EPIC-M) camera after the upgrade:

Jarred also recently posted about the upgrade path for the SCARLET, and much to the surprise of just about everyone, it will be possible to upgrade your SCARLET with a Dragon sensor, as opposed to having to upgrade to the EPIC just to get the sensor:

  1. Upgrade your Scarlet to Full Epic-X (including new black body) - $9500. After that.. you can upgrade your Epic-X to Full Epic Dragon through the normal Epic-X to Dragon process.
  2. Upgrade your Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon - $9500 ( keep your grey body ) Get all the dynamic range and new color science of the Dragon with a max framerate of 5K 60fps. Full specs to come soon.

Pre-orders begin this Thursday. Upgrades begin July.

While we have yet to see any actual images from the new sensor, it's only a matter of time before the interweb is flooded with them [Update: Looks like we will have to wait until after NAB to see footage.] Keep your eyes out for more announcements as we bring you info from the floor in Vegas.

What do you guys think? Is this what you were expecting the upgrade path to look like? Does it surprise you that the SCARLET Dragon is now an option? Let us know in the comments.

Links:

Your Comment

61 Comments

Has anyone seen footage (of a moving object) from the dragon sensor?

April 8, 2013

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David F

Not yet. The color science isn't done.

April 8, 2013

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Brian

Can't wait to see all the Blackmagic 4K Production Camera Vs. RED Scarlet tests that are soon to follow!

April 8, 2013

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Scarlet with Dragon gains 3 stops of DR over MX. The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K loses 1 stop of DR from what the BMCC has. Color fidelity and overall "look" aside, that alone should put the BMPC4K at a disadvantage.

April 8, 2013

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Brian

Technically the Dragon should/will win. Let's see how it looks on set and in post. Also, $20k vs $4k, but hey.

April 8, 2013

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marklondon

I think many people are still looking at RED as the 3k for $3K company and deeming them a failure. I think their focus has shifted somewhat and so has their target market. They're more focused on pushing technology and you can't do that at bargain basement prices. A Dragonized Scarlet makes that camera a very serious competitor to an Alexa, provided it produces an equally or more pleasing picture (according to the people who like the "look" of the Alexa). Comparing Scarlet to the BMPC4K is a little unfair to both cameras now.

April 8, 2013

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Brian

I'd go further - it makes the camera viable. I know there are plenty of Scarlet owner-ops, but its been tough sledding on that cam in rentals, and even attracting work outside of personal projects. I think RED had to do it to bail out its user base. And its great they have.

April 8, 2013

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marklondon

I'll buy that.

April 8, 2013

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Brian

Good point. Some peoples' expectations vs Red's MO; a lot of debates arise when they aren't aligned

April 9, 2013

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Considering the price of the body, lenses, and accessories would make the Dragon more than 10 times as expensive, of course it's going to be more expensive. But I doubt it's going to have the 18 stops of DR they have claimed. They claimed that the RED Epic had only 0.5 stops of DR less than the Alexa but it actually has around 2-3 stops less DR. I doubt even this new sensor will have more DR.

April 8, 2013

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James

*of course it's going to be better

April 8, 2013

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James

Maybe you did not understand much! have 16 stops at 2000 iso clean WOWOW .. I'm sorry though I like Alexia, this being a huge advantage.
I think they also did a proxy module, then 6k + RAW 1080 Proxy, fantastic ...
I look to see what offers Arri ...
Red deserves a big round of applause.

April 8, 2013

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Alexiss

If testing confirms everything RED has claimed, such as 18 stops of DR and the image being as sharp as a still photo from a 5D mark III, then I'll become a fan of RED. As of now, I have a more cynical view of the company.

April 8, 2013

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James

No they don't

April 8, 2013

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Film genius

Jealous?

April 9, 2013

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Natt

Personally I think I'm going to do the Scarlet to Epic-X update, it just seems a little more future proof in the event I want to update the Epic to the dragon sensor.

April 8, 2013

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I really really like the idea of upgrading your personal camera, rather than trying to sell it off to buy the new one. Good on ya, RED. I'm also pleased the Scarlet is getting this love, previously I had heard it wasn't going to be eligible for Dragon.

April 8, 2013

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alex

This is cool, glad RED is giving Scarlet owners the chance to move up to new levels. I think the Epic trade in is better then moving to the new sensor for scarlet owners but this is just me. Everyone is talking about the new blackmagic, and dont get me wrong I will pre order on for my main camera, but RED really has something with all their tech.

April 8, 2013

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I agree, it is a very interesting and admirable upgrade system. I was looking for a way to avoid RED's high prices to get in the 4k+ arena, but I think their model of upgrades is environmentally conscious and very forward thinking. Maybe supporting it will cause other companies to build more sustainable systems.

April 8, 2013

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let's say Scarlet has 13 stops with the current MX + 3 stops of dragon... 16 stops!! wooopppp!

What about iso? Is it now 2000 native? If so... Mannn it costs a lot more but it will be far from BMCC also...

April 8, 2013

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Alex Mand

As a scarlet owner im going for the scarlet dragon, 9950 gets me 5K 60 FPS with new color science and DR. As opposed to getting the epic X for 9950 and then eventually another 9950 for full dragon. Spend twice as much to get 6K 100 fps. As awesome as that sounds 5K 60 FPS is plenty! All I want is that DR and the new color science.

April 8, 2013

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carlos

And iso!

April 8, 2013

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L

yeah I'd imagine its still 2000 ISO clean as current 800 ISO which would be unbelievable. I hope upgrades really do start in july!

April 8, 2013

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carlos

Also as a Scarlet owner/operator, I'm with Carlos on Scarlet Dragon.

Epic Dragon is nice, but hard to justify for most work outside of serious big budget work, then Epic Dragon is a no brainer for a 15 to 300+ million USD budget. Anything under that, especially for no/low budget, I can't see Epic dragon making that much of a difference over Scarlet Dragon

5K will down sample well to 4K, and exceptionally clean to 2k/HD, especially with the cleaner ISO range.
Provides the ability to output 2k/HD this year, then in a couple years when 4K hits the masses in numbers, re-output 4K, all from the same 5K source.

3 stops more dynamic range is gonna be a lot easier to work with (800% more light sensitivity) w/ cleaner toe and heel roll-offs

Up to 60fps in 5K (maybe 96ish fps in 4K) will be extremely useful for virtually most slow-motion/timeplay needs. 60fps gives you 40% real slow motion @24fps - If 4K does 96fps, that's 25%. With a shot planned for single frame interpolation addition via optical flow (twixtor, A/E, motion, etc), say at 4K@96fps, that's 12.5% cinematic slow motion!

The newer color science, well I'm sure it'll be cool... time will tell how much of a noticeable perceptual difference it makes to the most viewers/the audience... not just those with 100K grading beds. The color science as-is is great to work with if the effort is put in.

April 8, 2013

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Dan

Since at NAB Jarred/RED are suggesting that that even taking this option in 2014 is "likely" OK... we have plenty of time to think about it and save up.

April 8, 2013

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Dan

These upgrades are so expensive you might as well get a new camera. Who is RED kidding.

April 8, 2013

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Mark

Beats owning an Alexa and basically being told you have to buy a new 100K camera to get upgrades.

April 8, 2013

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Brian

lol,, the big myth spread by RED... Alexa is fully upgradeable.. Sony's camera in upgradeable. If the upgrade is 20% more that the camera itself-- that's not an upgradeable device. it's a hoax.

April 13, 2013

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steve duncan

Scarlet to Epic Dragon is $19K in upgrade fees, is a 5K savings vs buying it outright for $24K

Scarlet to Epic MX is $9.5K in upgrade fees, is a $8K savings vs buying it outright at $17.5K

I suspect there will be no standard Scarlet Dragon for sale, but if there is, I'd expect it to be around $14.5K
If so, then the Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon $9.5K upgrade fee would be a 5K savings vs buying outright.

The $5,000 to $8,000 savings is 20% to 45% off of list price, that sure sounds like a deal to me!

April 8, 2013

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Dan

All you haters can say what you will, but good luck upgrading your F3, C300, Alexa, Phantom, etc. Because you won't... Good luck updating your DSLR, because you won't. You will sell at rock bottom prices and buy new at full retail. Its good to be in camp Red I tell you's lol... I knew instantly when I saw their frame rates, IQ, and depreciation (or lack thereof) that it made sense for me. Sure people whined about the price cut, but DO I HEAR WHINING NOW? No, as long as you held on you could upgrade and this stuff rocks braj. Think I might go for Epic, I like the frame rates... but waiting for Scarlet Dragon specs to decide....

April 9, 2013

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brian merlen

If you bought an FS100 last year - you can sell it now for $4,000.
If you bought a 5D Mark III last year, you can sell it now for 2,800.
If you bought a C300, you can sell it now for 10 to 12k.
Even an F3, the camera that I know has depreciated the most - you can still sell for 7-8k.

It's cool that Red has buyback programs, but lets not pretend the aftermarket camera market isn't healthy. You can still get at least 50% of the original cost in almost every instance.

April 9, 2013

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Carlos D

yes, unfortunately as Scarlet owners, we got hosed. we were told it was an upgradeable camera. If you want the full Dragon sensor-- your options are limited. if you want Dragon Scarlet- you're camera dies there. RED has guaranteed that the camera will never be able to be upgrades again... And RED, to placate Epic owners, have found a way to dumb down your new dragon sensor.. that's right. they're going to take the sensor and tweak it so it only works to 60% of it's real capabilities. And show me one upgrade program in the world, where the upgrade price is selling at 20% above the actual price of the item. Scarlet sells for 8k new, the upgrade costs 9.5k. that's not an upgrade. that's the cost of a new camera plus 20% for an upgraded part.

your second great option is paying 19K to upgrade your scarlet to dragon epic. Dragon Epic is selling for 24k. So they're not upgrading your Scarlet-- that's buy back program. They're buying back your Scarlet for 5K, less than what you can sell it for and just by a new Epic Dragon. The other benefit? if you get the Epic Dragon for 4k, and put it on your amex, you'll get a 2 yr warranty, way better than the crap 90 day warranty they give you with the fake upgrade program. That's worth another $1,500.. so there really only buying back your camera for around $3,500 and you HAVE to buy the Epic Dragon with the money... You can just sell your Scarlet on ebay for 6k, and buy any camera you want, with full warranty.

problem with RED owners-- they just can't do the math, and admit they got conned from their leader.

April 13, 2013

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steve duncan

** if you get the Epic Dragon for 4k, and put it on your amex, you’ll get a 2 yr warranty**

April 13, 2013

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steve duncan

if you get the Epic Dragon for 24k, and put it on your amex, you’ll get a 2 yr warranty

April 13, 2013

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steve duncan

wow only $9500 ......now to just sell my car

April 8, 2013

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james

5k at 60fps... more than enough for me. i couldn't justify upgrading to a dragon epic at twice the price of upgrading the scarlet... what is the sensor size for 4k 5k and 6k on dragon. is 4k s35 and 5k 1.3 FF crop? is 6k FF? or s35? anyone know?

April 8, 2013

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From what I gather, 6K frame consumes a space of 30.7mm x 15.8mm on the sensor,
5K frame is cropped down to about 1.3 FOV factor, so about 23.6mm x 12.15mm.
S35 film for 16x9 would be about 25mmx14mm.

So roughly at 5K its about 94% the size of S35 motion film and close to DLSR 1.6 crop factors.

April 8, 2013

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Dan

Thanks Dan!

April 8, 2013

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It'll be interesting to see lenses at the highest level, and cheaper level get paired with this camera which seems to be moving away from standard s35.

April 9, 2013

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OF COURSE they announced this AND are offering a Scarlet upgrade. Duh. Probably didn't even want to until NEXT NAB, only they are being trumped BIG TIME by Black Magic!

I'd personally get THREE BMCC's before I got ONE Dragon upgrade.

April 9, 2013

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Shorty

I don't understand the RED hatred at all. It must be the company's public persona that rubs people the wrong way because it can't possibly be price or the capability you get for that price. The original RED ONE body was $17,500. Today, the Epic MX body costs $17,500. What has changed? I think what's changed the most over the past 5 years is people have gotten spoiled and unrealistic in their expectations. That and they just don't like RED's attitude.

You didn't mind Sony's attitude when they were charging $200K for 2/3" sensor cameras a few years ago. No one ever has a bad word to say about Arri on this sight and a follow focus and a complete matte box kit from them would set you back almost as much as the new BMPC4K. Why don't you care about that? It's because you know those products aren't intended for you and your budget and you accept it. Why everyone is comparing RED to BMD is baffling to me especially in light of the Dragon sensor upgrade. RED doesn't make cameras for the no-budget filmmaker and neither does Arri. If that's you, you need to let it go and look at things that are designed with your budget in mind.

April 9, 2013

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Brian

EDIT: "on this SITE"

April 9, 2013

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Brian

It was 20 stops of DR.

Then it was "about 18 stops"

And now it is Epic DR + 3...

So, about a year late, it will finally be something like 15 stops of DR in real life, with resolution of Sony F65 (which is one year ol dand has real life DR of 14 stops).

RED cameras - real cutting edge.

April 9, 2013

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Juhan-i

I know you would marry Sony if you could so I won't speak ill of her. RED never claimed 20 stops of DR. People misread the meaning of that chart and it's only one way to measure DR. If you go back and read that "Enter the Dragon" post, Jim ended up saying it was probably going to end being a conservative 4 stops above MX. As it turns out, it's only 3 stops above MX. I'm not going to damn RED to Hell for that.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92158-Enter-the-Dragon&p=112...

My guess is various tests indicate different amounts of dynamic ranges and, when measured with some of the less forgiving ones, Dragon showed less DR than that chart indicated. In that case (and what I would've done), I believe they went with the least of the measurements. How much more cutting edge can they be? A three stop improvement over your last generation chip is no small accomplishment. Even at 15 stops, it's 1 stop better than everyone else's claimed DR at higher resolutions and higher frame rates in a smaller package than everyone else. That, new color science and less noise should make for a nice looking sensor. If you don't think so you don't have to buy one, do you?

April 9, 2013

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Brian

They have a history of overzealous claims.

April 9, 2013

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Mark

Perhaps. At least some of the claims that I can think of are subject to interpretation. Maybe that's why they officially quoted a lower number for DR. Wouldn't you say that's an improvement over past behavior? They also have a history of being pretty frank and open with their customers, more so than any other camera company. What's that worth to you? We should all be able to separate marketing hype by any company (and they all do it) from actual function and usability.

April 9, 2013

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Brian

Hhahhaaa. And what this is ? :

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97869-NAB13-Dragon-Sensor-Up...

I feel for the guy because Jimbo is gonna be really, really angry now.

One Shall Not Question The Words Of God".

April 9, 2013

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Juhan-i

That is truly great news for Scarlet owners (me), and it seems like going the Scarlet Dragon route is the best all-around option unless you must have high-fps potential. However, I'm still hoping RED can squeeze 4.5k (or 5k) 24fps out of the Scarlet's innards before the current hardware is put out to pasture...

April 9, 2013

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Agent55

What? Basically the same price for turning Scarlet into Epic Dragon? Wtf, who would keep the grey body?

April 9, 2013

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Natt

Read it again. $9.5k to upgrade to CURRENT Epic (no Dragon).

April 9, 2013

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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

Turns out this is no longer the case for scarlet owners. because red is allowing scarlet to upgrade to dragon the scarlet to epic upgrade path has been dissolved. our team just talked to somebody at red, its possible we got bad info, but it seems like this is hows its going to be now.

April 11, 2013

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Michael

we must have gotten bad info because the Scarlet to EPIC upgrade path is still up on reduser. i hate this time of year at RED, everyone over there seems to give you different info.

April 11, 2013

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Michael

I just got an email from RED today explaining all the upgrade options, which includes Scarlet MX to Epic Dragon, Scarlet to Epic MX to Epic Dragon, or Scarlet MX to Scarlet Dragon. Brent@Red on the forums as said this will probably only last a certain amount of time, whereas Jarred as said this is kind of open ended...everything subject to change I suppose...

April 11, 2013

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I think RED is yet again, embarrassing themselves. They're preselling a new sensor, that nobody has even seen any footage from. They can't get it to work, yet they're selling it for ten thousand of dollars. The Scarlet upgrade program is laughable-- it's actually a buyback program in disguise. They're asking $19K to upgrade your camera to a $24K Dragon Epic camera (which you can buy new), AND they take your Scarlet back. To top it off, they only offer a 90 day warranty for the upgrade. In reality it's actually a $5,000 buyback program for your Scarlet, for a camera with almost no warranty. Meanwhile, they're selling Scarlet's new for 40% more at $8,000 on their website.

And that's not at all. They do give Scarlet owners, the option to upgrade to the Dragon sensor-- except it will never be upgradeable again. And Jarred Land, the president of RED, found a way to dumb down the Dragon on the Scarlet to make the image quality worse. Yep, they have an extra guy on the assembly line, after the Dragon is installed, that goes into your camera and limits the sensors ability to work in 6k, or at higher frame rates at 4k and 5k. Literally pour sugar into the new engine's gas tank.... still works, just not as well. thanks for playing.

And get this-- if you put in to upgrade (19k to Epic Dragon for example), and you run into money issues come June, and cancel the upgrade-- RED has said that they will flag your camera in the system, and it will never be upgradeable ever again. Wow. Talk about a way to punish your long standing clients. RED is not the company it used to be. I know, i've owned RED a long time. To see all this nonsense, over a new sensor that they still can't show anyone an image from is embarrassing. And reeks of desperation. I think RED knows that 5k at 120 fps, with 16 stops will be available to everyone in the next two years.

Than RED wonders why the industry has moved to ARRI and Sony. It's about professionalism. Could you imagine ARRI selling a new camera without being able to show an image from it? Or Alexa offering an upgrade to their sensor that costs 20% more that the entire camera new? If you're a Scarlet owner, don't get pushed into the hype. Keep your Scarlet, it's a solid camera. Don't let RED tell you it needs a 10k upgrade, it doesn't. If RED wants to be reasonable and offer an upgrade that isn't twice the price they're willing to buy back your Scarlet for in their buyback program, then i'm all ears.

April 12, 2013

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steve duncan

"And get this– if you put in to upgrade (19k to Epic Dragon for example), and you run into money issues come June, and cancel the upgrade– RED has said that they will flag your camera in the system, and it will never be upgradeable ever again."

Can you post a link for this? This is the first I've heard...

April 12, 2013

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call your RED rep- he'll happily tell you... it's part of REDs new "jam it down your throat, for as much as they can, as fast as they can program", before you realize that 1) you're existing RED product is fine as is 2) all cameras are going to have 5k at 120 pfs RAW with 16 stops by 2015 for under $5,000.

Shockingly, they haven't been able to get any of there Dragon sensors to work at all yet. It's still in R&D. Yet, they're already telling you that the upgrade program won't last (rendering your RED stuck as it is), and it you sign up for it and fail to make the payment, your RED will also never be upgradable.

There's this dullard named Brent that works for the company-- someone asked on the forum if the upgrade program would be indefinite- and he said- no, "because it would be a logistical nightmare to keep the program open"...how laughable. the truth is that RED was swapping out Dragon sensors during NAB-- they took about an hour to do. And charged the price of a new car to do it-- $9,500. The real reason the RED is limiting the time frame, and forcing everyone to pay now, or be left out- is that they know in the next 6 or 7 months, an entire slew of new cameras are going to have the same quality for much less.

It's part of REDs "we're desperate as can be" policy-- forcing users into an upgrade program, with a 90 warranty on an unproven technology, when they still can't even get one camera with a dragon sensor to work. Sad how greedy the company got... using a limited time upgrade program costing more than 20% of the original camera (for Scarlet)-- just to try to instill fear into their customers, that they're going to be left behind if they don't cough off big bucks in the next few months. Pathetic. The worst fake upgradeable camera in the history of technology. Where upgrades cost more than the original cameras (for the Scarlet), and upgrades are forced on to you before you can wait for market prices to come down. Total scam, these guys.

SD

April 13, 2013

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steve duncan

Steve,

As a SCARLET owner I agree that selling your camera and buying a new Epic Dragon is the better deal. However there is a transfer of ownership fee which means, regardless of whether it is you or the buyer paying it, the camera is worth a bit less on the open market including that fee (which keeps it eligible for future upgrades), and now that the Epic Dragon has been announced I imagine there will be more Scarlets on the used market which further lowers its value. Conversely, I do think that the Scarlet Dragon that they have announced specs for is far better than what we could've expected. Yes you end-of-line your camera but 60FPS at 5K is a pretty damn serious camera. And if you think "all cameras are going to have 5k at 120 pfs RAW with 16 stops by 2015 for under $5,000," well sure, feel free to save $5K until then -- but note that RED has been doing internal compressed RAW for five years now and most of the RAW or 4K implementations available today are still external and/or uncompressed, neither of which is very appealing. If it was as easy as you think certainly more folks would be doing it already? The Alexa finally got an upgrade to do it without the Codex and that's a camera that costs several times as much. And adding dynamic range to a sensor is not easy -- or cheap.

I think many of us Scarlet owners were hoping that we would get full purchase price as a trade-in, which is what RED did with the One-to-MX upgrade program, but they never promised that and so I can't really hold them to a promise they never made. As I say I think the Scarlet Dragon is a damn serious camera -- 5K RAW at 60FPS, you are calling that a "total scam?" Funnily enough, that's what people said about the original RED and now look at all the features that have been shot on it. If you don't like their pricing, sell your camera and buy a competitor's. It's a free country and complaining about their pricing and policies is fine, but vote with your wallet. Calling them a "total scam" doesn't do anyone any good and just makes your opinion less valuable.

April 13, 2013

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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

Not to mention the scarlet with no upgrade is still one hell of a camera. All this low light and high DR talk is great, but the truth is (and I don't care who you are or how you shoot) lighting is paramount. Make a film, interview a subject or follow a story, you light it right no one will care what it's shot on and the scarlet will look as good as any camera out there upgraded or not. 2 lights, worth about 90 bucks makes my fs700 footage 75% better under normal shooting conditions (decent practical lighting). Why waste time and money on equipment by not bringing the best out if it? My point being, don't get caught up in all the hype. Why spend $15,000 on a piece of equipment if it's not gonna be used the right way? Light it right, it'll look beautiful and no one will about any new sensor or upgrade path for your camera. Its good already. My 2 cents, Thanks

April 13, 2013

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Anthony Marino

didn't call RED a total scam-- just the upgrade program they promised Scarlet owners. They clearly said-- purchase a Scarlet, and you'll have an upgradeable body for the life of the camera. and if Scarlet had 3 or 4 upgrades over the years, and than this was the ultimatum because of the physical limitations of the body, or for some technical reason- I'm a reasonable guy.

But this is the first upgrade being offered to Scarlet owners that was suppose to be part of an upgrade program for years and years to come. instead, with path 1, the upgrade costs more that 20% more than the entire camera itself, and we're told it's the last upgrade you can ever do. And if you want to get in on the upgradeable Dragon Epic (course 2)-- we'll simply buy back your camera for $4,000.00-- ($5k minus the warranty you lose) which is not an upgrade program at all-- it's a buyback program. And not a very generous one. And if you get in line for an upgrade, and have to cancel the upgrade at any time, your camera gets flagged, and can never be upgraded ever again. And by the way, we still can't show you a single moving image from this camera, that we think is worth 10K.

And I do remember the company saying that they will allow you to give back the Scarlet's for the full value you paid towards an Epic upgrade. That would be fair, since they need to eat a little bit for selling us on an upgradeable scarlet that's not reasonably upgradeable. Instead of eating a couple grand in our favor, they're making us eat a couple grand the other way. Scarlet should sell for $6,500 used, not $4,000 or $5,000 they're willing to pay.

You're right-- the Scarlet Dragon is a damn serious camera... but if it's not upgradeable, will RED even provide firmware updates after the first 6 months? Like if shooting to pro-res becomes available- is that going to be given to scarlet dragon owners as well? You take all those cool firmware updates for granted... it'd suck if that was no longer happening. Especially with all the new cool features that will come out for all cameras over the next two or three years.

I just think we got shafted with the original price of the Scarlet- as the "it's upgradeable for life" part of the price tag, didn't pan out. one avenue is a pretty crappy buy back program, and the other ends your camera from being upgradeable ever again, which saves them a pretty penny. The latest Canon and Sony cameras sell for around 15% off their new value, why should Scarlet be that much worse?

Everything together here, just doesn't sit well. The best move is probably to keep your Scarlet, not upgrade-- and wait til RED lowers their price of the Epic Dragon from 24k to 18k, and buy it new, with all the kinks worked out, grab a two yr warranty w/ using your amex card, - and have the Scarlet as a great second camera. You'd be a fool to turn in the RED Scarlet for 4k or 5k (depending on how you value a long warranty). And if they start selling Scarlet Dragon for $14k in a few months, you're going to be pissed that by the end of this year, you could probably find a Scarlet Dragon for the same price of the upgrade. Of course, if you think you can make 10k more having the new Dragon sensor in your camera over a 12 month period, then it's worth upgrading. Still not a great deal, but worth doing.

My opinion-- people aren't going to pay more for more dynamic range... the big joke in NY is that when you rent a RED to a client, they don't even ask if it's Epic or Scarlet. nobody cares. just the major film directors and geeks that like sitting in their room looking at dynamic range comparisons.

April 14, 2013

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steve duncan

OK I’m really lost with what everyone is complaining about with the opportunity to trade in a Scarlet X for an Epic X for $9500? I keep reading how this isn’t fair or you’ll losing money etc by doing this. Its really simple really look at the math:

Scarlet X with side SSD and PL lens mount is $11,450

Epic X Mysterium with side SSD and PL lens mount is $21,000

$21,000
-$11,450
= $9,550

This price is exactly what RED is asking for to trade in one camera for the other. Now stop your bitching.

April 15, 2013

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Eric

OK I'm really lost with what everyone is complaining about with the opportunity to trade in a Scarlet X for an Epic X for $9500? I keep reading how this isn't fair or you'll losing money etc by doing this. Its really simple really look at the math:

Scarlet X with side SSD and PL lens mount is $11,450

Epic X Mysterium with side SSD and PL lens mount is $21,000

$21,000
-$11,450
= $9,550

This price is exactly what RED is asking for to trade in one camera for the other. Now stop your bitching.

April 14, 2013

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Reply
Eric