August 8, 2013

First Full-Quality ProRes Clips from the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Have Been Released

They may be shipping in relatively small quantities, but there are at least a few Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras floating around. If you haven't ordered one yet, it's probably going to be a while (since the pre-order list is long), but if you've been disappointed by Vimeo-only footage, we've got some camera-original ProRes clips for you to mess around with. Click through to check those out.

First up is footage from Hook, which you can download here. This footage is from his Auckland video we recently shared:

We've also got a clips from John Brawley. First are files with people and motion in the frame that you can download here, and then some more static shots you can find here (these were all shot in film mode on the Pocket, which is like log). Some people have tried their hand at grading the footage, here are a few samples with grading and stabilization from :

This  test showing what different FilmConvert profiles can do to the footage:

The last grading test I'll be doing (publicly) with John Brawley's Pocket Cinema Camera footage. This time around a grade which was meant to be a quick grade but took several hours to put together. It's done using FilmConvert with basic settings and using the 'Blackmagic Cinema Camera Film' profile. Nothing was done to the original footage before applying the FilmConvert filter in Premiere Pro CC. Film Grain was kept at 100%, as was Film Color. With the lake-view shots I also increased exposure with 0.08, marginal, but it just looked better that way

Not all film stocks from FilmConvert were used, I made a selection of seven stocks.

Here is  take on the rest of the footage in the second batch:

Dynamic range looks pretty good in these test clips. The footage has a very similar look to the original BMCC, and that makes perfect sense since they are supposedly from the same sensor family -- with the Pocket simply being a scaled down version. We don't have any RAW clips to play around with yet, as RAW is not yet finished on the camera, but you can still push these quite a bit. Just like with the BMCC, I was able to push color and saturation a lot, since the log mode on these cameras is relatively flat.

All in all, not bad for a camera that's only going to run you $1,000. There isn't another camera in this price range capable of putting out a log image that is this malleable without many penalties, so it's impressive to say the least.

What do you guys think of the footage? Feel free to post your graded versions.

Links:

Your Comment

147 Comments

Wow. That's pretty impressive. for around $4k you could run an entire production house. This is blowing away my 7D. I'm seriously thinking about snagging one of these and trading out of that DSLR dinosaur.

August 8, 2013

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Nate

You still need lenses, rigging, lighting, sound, recording media, editing hardware and software...

August 9, 2013

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Pat

thats why he said "for around 4k" haha

August 9, 2013

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john jeffries

Go for the BMCC instead of the pocket, then you can potentially re-use the same Canon lenses. The Pocket is lighter, but the lenses are different — which can be expensive.

August 9, 2013

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DSLRs are dinosaurs lol. They are so 2008 ;)

August 9, 2013

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Michael Hawk

Technology is changing fast. The Red Dragon 6K is forcing every camera maker to go for 4K, and at fairly a low priced in order to keep sales high. The 6K sensor is showing that higher K's are are too beautiful to hang on to lower resolutions. BM4K for $4K is forcing the price of a 4K down too. God Bless them for it! :-)

DSLR's MUST go for higher resolution. What they currently are now has no future. I've seen a Panasonic rep say Panasonic is going for 4K in the next GH. Within 1 1/2 years the general population will begin to see 6K movies. There will be no looking back then, no time to debate if higher K's are better. Every camera maker MUST begin to make changes now so they can hit the ground running when the higher K demand hits in earnest, because it's coming.

August 10, 2013

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Gene

I doubt any theater chain is going to spend millions changing its brand new 4K projectors for 6K ones.

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

I don't think they will. They don't need to. Video recorded on 6K and played on 4K projection will look better than 4K video play on 4K projectors. Look how good 6K looks on vimeo. It looks better than 4K on vimeo.

But I bet there'll be a few 6K theaters. and I'll go.

August 11, 2013

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Gene

The only difference in the 6K vimeo video from normal epic footage was the dynamic range. Don't even pretend like you could see a difference in detail/resolution in that 720p compressed morass.

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

I had the wrong impression of you.

August 11, 2013

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Gene

You don't think it looks better?

August 11, 2013

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Gene

It's not about what he or you thinks.

Optically there's not much to really tell 6K and 4K apart even on a big cinema screen, much less on Vimeo, where's it's also physically impossible.

You're just pixel-peeping.

August 11, 2013

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foljs

Did you see the 6K Red Dragon video? It did look better than any 4K, 1080p, or any other video I've ever seen. I'm not doing anything other than seeing a fantastic video. That's all.

August 11, 2013

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Gene

It looked better than Skyfall...

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

?

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

I thought we were talking about vimeo/YouTube videos.

I suppose it will take about 1 1/2 years before we get any movies in theaters shot in 6K. We can compare final products then rather than final product vs. ungraded.

August 11, 2013

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Gene

Well presumably if the vimeo compression has no effect on how good something looks, then what you're saying is that the Dragon footage looks better than Skyfall. However, if vimeo compression really DOES affect the look, then it must be scientifically measurable what it does. Scientifically speaking, vimeo takes your footage and turns it into 720p footage, no matter what it was shot on.

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

Ok, well, we all have our own opinion.

I'll have to get going now.

August 11, 2013

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Gene

Presumably what you're saying is that vimeo doesn't affect the look of footage, or at least in only affects it in a way such that resolution can still be seen. Thus, the 6K footage from the dragon should look better than Skyfall. Apparently you're conceding on that point. So, let's talk about what vimeo does to your footage. It basically takes it and crunches it down to 720p resolution, not matter how many K's it was shot at. 6K? Nope, now it's 720p. So it's physically impossible to tell the difference--at least in resolution--between 1080p, 4K, and 6K footage when it's viewed at 720p on vimeo.

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

I wasn't comparing anything to Skyfall. I was talking about the 6K footage that looked fantastic.

You don't think it was as great as that. And that's ok.

Let's just leave it at that.

August 11, 2013

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Gene

If Skyfall was shot on the cameraman's spare time on the weekend, without professional lighting, and ungraded, then, yes, the 6K Red Dragon video would look better.

Is that fair?

August 11, 2013

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Gene

Assuming all or most videos are played at the same resolution on Vimeo the reason the higher res videos look better is because when they convert them down to 1080p or 720p is that you get the smoothest lines/edges basically making the most efficient use of the space. Is that right or wrong guys?

August 15, 2013

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Gary

BS, people around the world are going to be using their 1080 hd tvs for at least 10 more years, if they even have got one at all yet. Nobody making a feature film is going to be using a pocket cinema camera even if it had 6k anyways, someone that poor would not be able to pay for even one weeks catering let alone finish a feature film on a pocket cam.

August 16, 2013

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Dylan

As the last man on earth to convert to digital, from analog, in professional sound recording, I'm amused by the epidemic of GAS ( Gear Acquisition Syndrome ) I find on these boards. The studio I've worked for, for the last 16 years, only started doing video work two years ago. Not only do we shoot everything on DSLR's, but Pani GH series, and even subs are required to use them.
Presuming you're not producing feature films, and it's dubious that you're a "pro", ( I'll retire in four years, at 55, after 30 years in commercial audio/visual production ), I posit that you're wrong.
Don't get me wrong. The footage is gorgeous. But as someone making a living ( professional ) in video production, you might concentrate more on "talent", then the latest greatest gizmo.
Love, Health, and Money, to you and yours.
Dinosaur

August 20, 2013

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Dinosaur

Not bad? NOT Bad? And in this price range? Man the IMAGE is better than any camera sub $8,000 excluding BMCC's obviously. And I don't see any Canon dslr natively shooting anything close to this anytime soon if ever, even with the hack (unusable in a pro setting). Sorry but it's the cold hard truth.

August 8, 2013

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Michael Garcia

Tell that to the other pros using it :D.

August 8, 2013

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Dan

Yea, seems like the 'unusable for pro setting' is a label being spread by anyone who doesn't own one...

August 8, 2013

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Yep... because another cold hard truth, is that 70% of pros are only "pros" because they had access to equipment and tools that others don't have (school, fortunate connection, right-place-right-time, ect.). This changes up the whole game now that it's becoming more of a talent-based meritocracy.

August 9, 2013

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bwhitz

You are totally RIGHT!. And if they have a truck full of lighting equipment and a big crew and a best boy or girl to bring coffee they are super PRO. But nowadays and in the future there wont be needs of so much logistics, like in drone wars than they dont need trucks, tents, cooks or WC. Perhaps that kind of PROS are going to disappear like dinosaurs.

August 9, 2013

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Simon

It also opens up a lot of the faux-pro youtube culture.

August 9, 2013

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Pat

Haha, tru dat

August 9, 2013

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Bobkat

Keep telling yourself that, you know, drinking the gear blog kool aid.

If you show up to a job with a hacked DSLR, and you are proud of it, the client/producer is going to drop you and go with the team that has a real camera. It's fine for equipment-focused hobbyists (people that write for NFS and eosHD, haven't really done much else and their vimeos are bland, etc) and your own projects, but don't ever think ML rigs have a place on actual jobs where money and time is on the line, and "oh, my card isnt fast enough, hold on" or "oh, i guess it froze, lemme take the battery out" is not an option. The set has no time for you and your 800 dollar camera from best buy

August 9, 2013

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john jeffries

I don´t think that is a valid argument...Sometime ago on FILM SETS the RED EPIC was freezing all the time. They had several replacing cameras to backup while the faulty one went back to be repaired. Also the size thing has no more weight than the people hiring you. If they give you a valid reason to drop you due to the size or name of your equipment is because they didn´t chose you...If they did they have seen your work with that camera and liked it so that was the reason they hired you. I shot commercials with Alexa, Canon 5D, GH3 even some shots on a iphone. Which one is the best camera? All...depending on the look you chose. While we see more and more K´s 2,4,6 we have vimeos and youtubes that gives us a compressed footage that can´t even compare in compression with "old" digibeta camcorders. Until people refuse to see how much creativity weighs in all these matters, the guy with the bigger camera will have all the clients and this is not true for a few years now.

August 15, 2013

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Augusto Alves d...

I don't see how it's unusable. I've been using it since it's released.

August 8, 2013

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Hubert

I think Michael Garcia meant real pros. Those with budgets, crews, etc.
No one (in their rightt mind) would risk a big $ shoot on a hacked camera.

And, like Pat said, a lot of the 'pros' commenting here, make videos for YouTube.

August 9, 2013

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dixter

A lot of modern videography professionals work directly with clients for web based projects and often use YouTube and Vimeo for hosting (allows easy web embedding, etc). Let's be clear here, a professional is someone who makes their living solely off of their work, so if YouTube and Vimeo end up being the primary distribution channels for a videographer, shame on you for your shallow and transparent efforts to make them feel inadequate.

August 9, 2013

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Jules

Well said.

August 10, 2013

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Amen!

August 15, 2013

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Efren

I second that!!!

August 15, 2013

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Augusto Alves d...

OK, let's see then... Jules, Simon Bailey, Efren and Augusto Alves da Sliva make videos for YouTube. Noted.

August 15, 2013

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dixter

Dickster why do you not include your website linked to your profile name. Clearly your work must be great to make claims that the web is not for pros. So back it up. I worked with a group on a project for Havianas footwear a few years ago that was solely for the web and the budget was over $150k. But according to you if its for the web your not pro?? Broadcast has been dying a slow death for 15 years but that death has started speeding up the past few years. Its web now.

August 16, 2013

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Very impressive. I would like to combine it with canon raw, but it seems a little tedious.

August 8, 2013

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Edgar

Impressive, really ?
Have you downloaded Ruben Kramer's full quality file (500 Mo) on Vimeo ?
I did, and really I find there is a lot of noise (especially in the wide shot, look the trees).
So not impressed for now, I am rather anxious to imagine all my wide shots to "move" like that.
Have to wait for raw files, but for now, I wait before preorder any.

August 8, 2013

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Christophe

It might be the film grain level from the filmconvert software?

August 8, 2013

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Sotts

That's what I'm thinking. I was also surprised, but the noise is very dense--looks like a grain plate.

August 8, 2013

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Kenneth Merrill

The default grain settings on Filmconvertpro put too much grain into the picture. I've experimented and have found that 40% grain yields a more pleasing picture.

But to be honest, I'm preferring the image straight out the BMPCC and color corrected. I don't think it needs Filmconvertpro. I think Filmconvertpro is the best film grain tool out there, but it takes a while to get used to using, and really is great for emulating a film look. But unless you are wanting that specific film look, a proper color corrected image is usually going to be more pleasing to the eye. At least IMHO.

August 9, 2013

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FILM VOLTAGE

How long do you think emulating a film look will last?

August 10, 2013

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Gene

Christophe, the noise you're referring to is a filmgrain plate which is part of the FilmConvert software. That piece of software processes the image to make it look like specified film stocks, including the correct grain. That's what you're seeing.

To judge the footage without the added grain I suggest taking a look at my second grading test of BMPCC footage at http://vimeo.com/71853739 ... hope to have been of help ;-)

August 9, 2013

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Thanks Ruben, will give it a try right now !

August 11, 2013

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Christophe

I must have spent an hour wading through the various color grading clips last night and found the Pocket Cam performance to be a disappointment.

August 8, 2013

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DLD

+1

August 8, 2013

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carlos

What exactly are you having trouble manipulating in the image?

August 8, 2013

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Gabe

I can't wait to see this camera with a PL lens on it. The Lumix lenses are very nice and all, but no accident the best looking footage so far was the Aucklander who put Canon primes on it.
Those who are disappointed above must have had very different expectations. This is stunning, especially at the price. Just so we're clear - it shoots edit ready ProRes. OUT OF THE BOX. It may yet shoot RAW. At less than a third of the cost of even a decent DSLR. It has a terrific 'film' look.
I like the ML Canon hack, but its not 100% stable, the workflow is not plug and play, and if you're converting from another camera, its at least a 4k investment.

August 8, 2013

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marklondon

I am disappointed because I don't think it comes close to the BMCC quality, which I really like. In fact, I'd rate the Pocket Cam below GH3 and D7100, two models by the major manufacturers in the same price range. Maybe, once it has a different lens and Raw recording, it'll show improvement. Then everyone can reevaluate. Of course, by the time the first firmware upgrade comes along, there may be a bunch of other cams vying for the same dollar. The 1080p market is getting very saturated while the 2.5K niche is barely touched.

August 9, 2013

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DLD

Ok, whatever credibility you thought you had just died right there. The D7100? I'm a Nikon guy and that is just straight up wrong. The GH3 is nice, but nowhere near the film DR look of this.

August 9, 2013

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marklondon

One doesn't always need a film look, Mark. (and who says I have any credibility on the hardware side of things?)

August 10, 2013

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DLD

You must have missed this one :-). http://vimeo.com/72021270
I think the BMCC pocket shoots amazing images for it's price. John Brawley must have shot with ND filter to keep the iso native and iris wide open. That introduces IR pollution, a red-brownish color, preventing proper color separation. Good IRND filter might help a lot.

August 9, 2013

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EricV

Could you specify what bits of the camera's output you don't like. Just wondering, because I'm pretty excited about it and would rate it far above any DSLR.

August 9, 2013

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I wont speak for other DSLRs but the D800 easily has better dynamic range and detail than this pocket camera.

I dont get what dynamic range people are talking about in this footage? Unpleasant highlights and shadows with poor detail. Its a very muddy looking image. And its soft.

I've uploaded a D800 frame grab here for download.

http://www.overseafilms.com/cameras-and-gear.html

August 10, 2013

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I take back anything negative I said about the pocket camera as I don't want to be someone who bags other cameras, I just meant to say DSLRs are not to be underestimated. I believe video on DSLR is just warming up and has a solid future.

What other camera platform is full frame, rainproof (not to be underestimated), compact, takes SD and CF cards, can fit in readily available waterproof housings and is about the toughest camera out there.

My choice of DSLR is for aesthetic and ergonomic reasons. They rock more and more each year :)

August 10, 2013

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Good stuff JOE, IF AND when raw is released and cameras start shipping in large quanitys then this little camera will be a serious problem.

August 8, 2013

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jay clout

I've spent a bunch of time grading a number of these BMPCC clips -- and I'm thrilled with what I'm seeing. The image can be pushed and pulled in all kinds of fantastic ways.

Quick tip for folks in Premiere Pro CC who want to play with the footage: to get started, use a LUT. Add a Lumetri filter. Drop in a LUT like CaptainHooks. Good starting point for grading.

August 8, 2013

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Ben Prater

Why not just shoot it correctly and you won't have to push & pull?

August 15, 2013

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I'm very excited about the DR coming out of this camera, but does the footage seem more than a little soft to anyone else? Like, softer than a 7D?

August 8, 2013

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Kenneth Merrill

That's because the 7d has more moire and aliasing that give the appearance of a sharp image. It's kind of like looking at an old CRT screen running in a low resolution and calling the image sharp because the edges of the pixels are sharp.

August 9, 2013

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Gabe

Nice explanation. Have you played with the images at all? Is it acceptable how soft it is? Especially in this day of 2.5K+ imaging, I wonder if the pocket camera will be able to compete with the likes of the C100 in terms of sharp image. I'm afraid it will look cheap because of how soft it is.

August 9, 2013

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Kenneth

Can be sharpened very well. Here's a good tutorial on how to best sharpen in Resolve:
http://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/building-a-better-s...

August 9, 2013

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EricV

Well the C100 is downscaling from a 4k sensor, so it has an innate advantage there. However, the pocket cam shoots a fatter image (10 bit vs 8 bit) to a better codec (ProRes vs H264), so color grading should be much better. If you're looking to shoot for a look in camera with little to no post work, the C100 would fit the bill nicely (albeit at a rather higher price).

Closer to the Pocket Cam's price is the GH3 which also does a nice downscale, and also shoots 8 bit H264 similar to the C100. On the flip side the GH3 probably has less dynamic range than the C100, and the C100 has less dynamic range than the Pocket Cam.

I personally think nothing remotely near in price can touch the Pocket Cam when it comes to a nice filmic look, and capturing subtle color and shading. I would gladly give up a little resolution for that...but that's obviously not a style that fits everything.

August 9, 2013

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Gabe

Yeah I suppose it is unfair to compare the BMPCC to a camera with a 4K sensor. However, for the price point I think the BMPCC is unbeatable. A C100 costs 6500 if you want it to shoot ProRes. The BMPCC costs 1000. Amazing. Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to purchase a BMPCC and eventually sell off my 60D and get a GH3. One for more serious projects, one for events. They will share glass nicely.

August 9, 2013

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Kenneth

Though I do wonder about the noise I think it just plays into the Super 16 feel of the camera. Plus I think it's worth bearing in mind the compression on most of this files, individual settings could be affecting the quality quite significantly.

August 9, 2013

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Jack

The noise levels are pretty low, at least, in my opinion. With my DSLR the noise just wasn't as visible because the high compression killed it and turned the grainy noise to block noise.

August 9, 2013

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Fair point. I've always found I can crush most of the noise out of existence anyway.

August 9, 2013

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Jack

Got to say I'm not particularly impressed with any of these videos. Of course, Vimeo probably isn't helping due to compression but what's worse is that I'm not seeing the expected latitude. Some of the whites look overexposed or blown out in post - can't tell which, though.

I'll have to wait til the downloads finish. In the meantime, I'm sorely tempted to cancel my preorder

August 9, 2013

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Neil Randall

Strange things happen when I push this footage in Resolve I wonder if it was shot on 1600 iso, because particularly of the shot with the people at the streetlight, I try to crush it with curves and I get terrible results.
Definitely not a super sharp camera either. I've just been grading BMCC clips and the detail is just unbelievable. Yet to see a clip from this camera that blows me away like that.

Anyway, probably buying one soon. I'd love if someone started making better lenses for it though, I really don't like the MFT consortium and the lenses they make, the only I'd buy is probably the voigtlander. C-mount s16 lenses all look unacceptable in their color and sharpness.

August 9, 2013

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Rafael Lino

You bringing it in with the right raw setting?

August 9, 2013

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Jack

Re: "Definitely not a super sharp camera either." - Agreed. The detail looks too soft. It's very noticeable in the trees. While it's defiantly better than a DSLR's detail mush, I too was expecting a little more sharpness than what I'm seeing.

August 9, 2013

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Razor

Really hum drum examples here. I'm sure it's a great camera and all, I just think the examples lack any creativity. I'm sure Black Magic could find a better DP to showcase their product.

August 9, 2013

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Nick

I'm sure John Brawley is a cool guy, but a lot of dryness in his image choices. You have to have a talented "eye" for subject, framing, and anticipation. People choose the wrong careers all of the time.

August 9, 2013

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Razor

Guys, he's a pro DP, and the few clips he's given are when he has a few minutes to shoot some stuff. I doubt they're paying him for any of this.

He just shot this video: http://vimeo.com/70027687

He's currently the DP on this TV series in Australia: http://vimeo.com/67051291

August 9, 2013

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avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Haha then is goes to show how bad the camera is. Joking. I can't help to think why not buy the 2.5k cinema camera, sell the resolve (super cheap) and it might end up costing just a few more hundred dollars or so than the pocket camera. Images are nice, not complaining at all but from what I've been seeing the pocket and cinema cameras images are like night and day so far

August 9, 2013

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Anthony Marino

If he doesn't have time, then why is he doing it anyway? In mean, if Blackmagic handed me that camera I would take it pretty seriously to provide the best footage I could to showcase its capabilities rather than a drab little 7-Eleven street scene. It freak'in is what it is; no excuses.

August 9, 2013

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Razor

The man is trying to take time out of his schedule to give us at least something to work with. He doesn't have to, but he is supporting the community. You are crucifying him for something we wished every Pro DP did.

August 9, 2013

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it's a scene that isn't stage real world coniditons and something we can easily compare and contrast our own experiences against as we could easily go and do the same with what we currently have.

its a test not citizen kane

August 10, 2013

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Chris Lambert

You should be a life coach

August 9, 2013

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Wihelm

I am.

August 9, 2013

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Razor

A life coach who hides in the shadows and throws cheap shots at those who have achieved greatness. Yeah you're a winner...just replace the 'i' with an 'a' and an 'n' with a 'k'.

August 9, 2013

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Paul

@Paul - Say what you will, but I'm not the only one commenting on the examples lacking in creativity and not properly showcasing the camera.

August 9, 2013

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Razor

Sorry you weren't happy with the examples released.

I'm constantly shooting for BMD as part of their development process. It's highly iterative so a lot of stuff doesn't get released because it's not from finished firmware.

BMD also don't commission content to be shot as demo footage.

jb

August 9, 2013

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John Brawley

I wasn't the only one not happy with the examples. You have thousands of people scrutinizing every aspect of theses demos in evaluation to buy or not buy the camera, so I think the examples are pretty important for sales. Based on what I've seen so far, I will be skipping the Pocket camera.

August 10, 2013

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Razor

I'm not here to sell cameras mate.

I work on the development of the camera itself. I use them every single day alongside the other cameras on my sets.

jb

August 10, 2013

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John Brawley

Thanks for the samples, John. I really appreciate it.

August 10, 2013

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Kenneth Merrill

Are you working with them on the 4K? I've been waiting for footage. It might be my first step in 4K.

August 10, 2013

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Gene

likewise thanks John out of curiousity (i havent seen any mention of it in the blogs i have seen) what iso was the footage shot at?

Is there anything on the 4k camera you are able to say?

August 10, 2013

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Chris Lambert

Hi Chris. There's a mix of ISO 800 and some 200 as well. 200 doesn't have the same DR, but I was short on some ND filters and some of the lenses like the 7-14 Olympus are next to impossible to ND.

jb

August 10, 2013

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John Brawley

thanks! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the 4k appreciate there's a ton of stuff you can't say but do you know when you maybe able to show/tell us more? Though I'm guessing that's very R&D progress dependent I'm chomping at the bit to learn more

August 10, 2013

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Chris Lambert

How much DR is lost when you bring it down to 200? Any estimates? I would hope that it's still better than a DSLR's 8 stops.

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

Where on earth did you pull 8 stops from?? The best DSLR's are around 12, 13 in the case of the D4 and that was measured in just the standard colour profile. Would love to see what it could do with a flat profile.

August 11, 2013

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@Simon

It depends on the DSLR, but DSLRs that line skip have less DR in video than in their stills because there's going to be more noise than if the image were achieved through some form of downscaling. It also seems like there's some amount of DR loss in the change from raw to H264 based off the recent raw hacks.

August 11, 2013

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Gabe

@Simon

I would love to know what DSLR's you're using! Most Canon DSLR's (7D, 60D, Ti models) are rated for 8 stops in video mode. The Mk2 and Mk3 are rated for 10 stops in video mode. The GH3 and full-frame Nikons that I'm aware of are about the same, 10 stops. This is without any hacking, of course.

I would be happy if the BMPCC still held even 11 stops of DR with lower ISO, though getting some ND's would be smart for anyone buying the camera.

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

@Gabe

Line skipping is related to resolution not DR and that effect on resolution results in the amount of moire. It also doesn't add noise, different cause.

@Kenneth

I'm using a D800 measured by the European Broadcast Union at 12 stops (in video mode, standard colour profile, H264 codec). The D4 they measured at 13 stops. I agree the Mk2 was a little over 10 stops but the Mk3 I read was 11.

This is largely why the D800 is used on Wilfred and Dexter. For Dexter they said they chose it because of the cameras they tested it most easily intercut with Alexa footage.

If you look at this image and look at the smooth graduations in skin tones yet with detail and not mushed out like some DSLR's. Smooth highlight and smooth shadow rolloff.

http://www.overseafilms.com/cameras-and-gear.html

August 11, 2013

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Wow, I had no idea about the D800. That frame looks very slick, though it's hard to say anything about the DR of a frame-grab when I don't know anything about the lighting setup. However, I will take your word for it. It really is a shame that the Canon DSLR's aren't competitive anymore. Too soft, too little DR (I don't doubt what you said about the Mk3 either, but 11 still isn't much for that price), and too crippled feature-wise.

For 1000 bucks I would still pick the BMPCC over the D800 since I would prefer to invest the rest of the money in glass. I've promised myself I'll never spend over $3000 on a camera since I will be renting for most projects anyone, and the D800 just misses the cutoff ;)

August 11, 2013

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Kenneth

Sorry Simon, that's not true. Anything that cleans up shadows adds dynamic range to the shadows. (Remember another term for dynamic range is signal to noise ratio...there's a reason for that) Line skipping is leaving out the information from some of the lines of the sensor instead of averaging them into the image. Averaging them would average out the noise. Go take a still with a DSLR that line skips in video mode and then shoot some video of the same thing. Downscale the still to 1080p with a decent downscaling algorithm and compare the shadows.

August 11, 2013

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Gabe

Kenneth in that interview I had no lighting and was just using the sky above to light him. He wasnt getting any shade from the building. Also worth checking out in the price bracket of the BMPCC would be the D5200. I've heard very good things about it like no moire, good dynamic range and sharp. Maybe not at trendy as a blackmagic camera tho... Still cant believe people placed orders on a camera before they ever saw any footage from it.

Gabe I agree with you about what you say rescaling a still using the full sensor and all its pixels down to HD and having less noise. But I havent seen examples of that resulting in less noise for video scaled to video. Maybe thats why the F55's low light is so good?

August 12, 2013

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Downloading original files from the camera is essential for observing this resolution. Thanks so much!

August 9, 2013

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The nice thing about this debate is that the unit is being shipped out and, within a couple of weeks, all major streaming sites should be full with its footage. Given how much of the (glorious) BMCC video is already out there, the comparison should be relatively easy.

August 9, 2013

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DLD

I think to compare the two cameras (BMCC and BMPCC) up against one another is not doing any of them justice. As a reference, yes. From what I saw so far it's better to compare the pocket cam to S16, NEX, Nikon J or even Gh3 and the BMCC to other cameras in its category. The pocket camera IMHO is a speciality, novelty or even crash cam. Anything other than that, if you need to shoot in a professional environment I'd much rather have the cinema cam.

August 9, 2013

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Anthony Marino

Perhaps so but - as mentioned by folks at the top of the page - if you need a full rig and are spending $4K-$6K (whether as an outright purchase or a rental) anyway, the difference between the BMCC and BMPC, as currently priced, is $1K and that includes the full featured version of Resolve on BMCC. And $1K of a $5K budget is a relatively small (20%) difference with the Resolve accounting for a major part of that difference.

PS. Perusing earlier on YouTube, I found a young lady shooting the 2.5K BMCC into an outboard recorder (Ninja2 with a converter or Samurai, which enables monitoring, focus peaking and a slightly longer battery life) with ProRes and the footage was just outstanding.

August 9, 2013

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DLD

LInk?

August 9, 2013

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jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omwPG_49vA8
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She begins with her rig set-up and her explanations for it. The actual video starts at about the 6 min mark. I think the sidewalk footage is a bit underexposed.

August 9, 2013

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DLD

Nice, I'm gonna check it out.

August 9, 2013

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Anthony Marino

I also find the noise annoying. I don't know how you guys would deal with the noise like that, with Neat Video? I find even my Nex5N (ISO400) produces less noise. The latitude is quite good though.

August 9, 2013

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Koseng

What noise? The footage I downloaded is super super clean...did I miss a sample clip?

August 9, 2013

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Gabe

Download the original 1920 x 1080 ProRes. The noise is prevalent in the darker areas: guy's Billabong black shirt, car windows showing interior, all over the street, etc.

August 9, 2013

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Razor

Really? That's what people are worried about? That looks perfectly fine to me...I think a lot of people have just mistaken H264 mush for clean video. The truth is this is a very clean image...DSLRs are typically noisier but the H264 mushes the noise in the final image (you'll find a lot of people complaining about higher noise levels on the high bit rate GH2 hacks for example). The thing is if you end up delivering to 8-bit, even "clean" images need dithering, and the fine noise does that job quite nicely.

Seriously, I remember the images that came out of the F900 and F35...the people complaining about the Pocket Cam's noise would have a heart attack, and those cameras were $200,000 cams!!!

August 9, 2013

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Gabe

I've found most users that find the noise annoying haven't tended to have worked with true LOG encoded footage.

This means it's NORMAL to see the noise because all cameras have it. It's just that the blacks are lifted enough so that you can see everything, including sensor noise with a LOG encoded (FILM) image like this. If you download original BMCC2.5k footage you'll find it's the same.

Most cameras, even ones that shoot a kind of LOG like the C100/300/500 tend to some some processing under the hood that you as the user have no control over, such as noise reduction and sharpening. None of the BMD cameras do in-camera noise reduction or sharpening. You have the choice to do this (or not) in post.

Once you apply a LUT or perform a normalising grade, you should find the noise will disappear into the grade.

jb

August 9, 2013

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John Brawley

Yeah, to me these images look super clean...tons to work with here. Thank you for providing camera files to play with, it is very appreciated!

August 9, 2013

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Gabe

So very true, not much experience with Log but Jeez you're right it's definitely a learning curb. This little camera seems incredible, can only imagine how serious the 4k cam will be. Thanks JB

August 9, 2013

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Anthony Marino

The problem is that for the many graded samples shown here, the noise is still there. I have graded some BMCC DNG files on Speedgrade and have never found any noise issue. It seems that the quality gap between the DNG and ProRes files is quite big. It would be nice to see a properly graded version to see if the noise would disappear.

August 10, 2013

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Koseng

Awesome to finally see some files...only 2 weeks after they had originally expected to release it! They're getting better...

August 9, 2013

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Hummer

Just ran a quick grade on the clips provided by Captain Hook.
https://vimeo.com/72059004
Thanks guys!

August 9, 2013

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I loaded the "as downloaded" files into FCPX. No transcoding and the files played as smooth as my low res proxies. My jaw hit the floor. I did some quick corrections to exposure and saturation. My jaw hit the floor again. I put the camera in the cart for preorder, then reality hit me. These files are approximately 3.5 times larger than the GoPro and iPhone video files I'm working with (I'm just starting out) so the investment will have to go beyond camera and lenses and into new, fast storage as well. If I earn the money through aerial video I will buy it for sure.

August 9, 2013

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Jorge

ProRes HQ is just under 200Mbps (variable depending on the frame rate). At 25fps, it's about 83GB/hr, so a 1TB drive will fit ~12 hours of footage. If you're used to keeping just native H.264 files from a DSLR, then yes, you'll be chewing through that space 4x faster. Luckily, hard drives are cheap — you just need an archiving strategy.

August 10, 2013

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The ProRes HQ I use is 220Mbps.

August 11, 2013

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dixter

If you're grading BM ProRes clips without Resolve, you'll need to compensate for the flat Log look. In FCP X there are a few options (free from CoreMelt, or free for now from Antler Post) which I talk about here:

http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/final-cut/final-cut-pro-x-a-bmcc-flat-pic...

You can work with just the built-in tools, but a plug-in is easier.

August 10, 2013

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I like the BM image! They made a beautiful camera. And adding to that it's $995.00 makes it the best you can get for what it does. But I do have this to say, and I don't want to come across as negative, there's a full supply of negative comments on the internet, I mean I've had my fill of seeing them, so I'm hoping I won't come across negative: after watching so much 4K video, and now that beautiful 6K, (downloading for watching is better :-) ) the difference in 1080p is starting to stand out. You can see it right off. It doesn't looking as exciting. And that's funny because 1080p used to look so awesome. It seems like it's going to be hard to keep 1080p sales strong with how good 4K and 6K look, especially 6K.

It's good for BM that they already got into 4K. Maybe they should be thinking about R & D-ing 6K or 8K. I was at Best Buy last night. They now have a Samsung 4K tv, on the opposite side of the Sony 4K tv display. In ways, the Samsung looks nicer. And I've read there are 11 more manufacturers coming out with 4K tvs within a year. As 1080p cameras go this one is great. But I don't see any reason the trend toward 4K, and the trend away from 1080p, will stop.

August 10, 2013

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Gene

4k? 6k? how about 12k. or 24k, or 100k. the neverending technology upgrade cycle has got you all!

August 10, 2013

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ishoot720p

Chicks dig 720p? 720p does create excitement!!!!

I'm looking for the girl that digs 16K! ;^)

August 10, 2013

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Gene

;-)

August 11, 2013

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Gene

Is 100K physiologically possible? 16K is.

August 11, 2013

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Gene

8K is close to the "retina" quality, unless sitting within the first 12 or so rows in a 60-75 foot wide screen room. 16K will probably be the end of the pixel talk in projection cinema. The holographic imagery will probably be the next barrier.
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BTW, this was shot on GH3. It's not as "filmic" as some may like but, to me, the non-CGI footage looks splendid.
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http://vimeo.com/71460025

August 11, 2013

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DLD

That is a nice looking video. I can tell, at times, it's from a small camera. But it does look great.

I am not certain 16K will be the limit. But I sure do want to see 16K video!

This is 3 more GH3 videos, watch them in 1080p. What a great money saver the GH2 Hacked and GH3 are! :

[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pctGkQpafI ]

[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3fhEazbFKI ]

[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZIJJTBI66Y ]

August 11, 2013

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Gene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1p4RO355Nc
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This is the one I'd pick of all the various GH3 clips out there (I know, some shots have distortion due to the camera and subject movement and the choice of lens). To my eye, it just looks sharper than the Pocket Cam.
.
As to grading/correction for GH3, someone mentioned in another video that, if you choose the "natural" type and then go to "-5" on all the settings, you will leave yourself quite a few options for later on. As I understand, before the Log and Raw recordings became widely available on the high end/pro cameras, that's how the pros shot, by dialing down the color schemes.

August 11, 2013

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DLD

Ya, that video is a beauty.

August 12, 2013

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Gene

Interesting. I saw Ruben Kremer’s video of people in the streets and I now I see the noise everyone was talking about. There is none of that in the footage I downloaded from:

https://www.copy.com/s/bHQjkpc21Q1d/Pocket%20Cam%20-%20Originals

It's different footage though. I'm currently downloading Ruben Kremer’s video to see how the native looks. But the footage I linked looks spectacular with a quick grade in FCPX.

August 11, 2013

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Jorge

Ok saw the native footage from Ruben Kremer’s video and it still has the noise. Why is that? Why doesn't the footage from the Auckland video show this noise? It doesn't look like it was a brighter day outside.

Different ISO settings maybe?

August 11, 2013

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Jorge

RedShark got their hands on one but they're not posting any clips yet.

August 13, 2013

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DLD

https://vimeo.com/72391838

1st real test I found on Vimeo.

August 15, 2013

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Anthony Marino

This looks great.. and for the price is impressive.. but all you making comments about no other camera looking as good, you need to check out the 14-bit RAW hack for Canon cameras. Especially the 1080P 14-bit RAW.. it's outstanding. I'd still pay $1K for this than $3500 for the MK3 and use RAW. Hopefully the RAW CinemaDNG is added soon to this camera and looks better.

Also, for those that don't know.. the BM 4K has a global shutter.. which besides 4K resolution for $4K (and a $1000 software package included).. global shutter is huge at any price. If I had my choice I'd get the 4K simply for the global shutter, but also the 4K headroom when working with 1080P output.

August 15, 2013

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Kevin

The one thing alot of people are not taking under consideration are some basic, simple facts:
Broadcast industry is in many places not even out of the 720p HD era.
Consumers are just starting to get into 1080p and 4k tv's are not going to be mainstream for another couple of years.

My advise, if you want to save some money, are into commercial production for TV broadcast outlets, and are not expecting to have your stuff played in a movie theater any time soon? either stick with the 1080p, milk the hell out of it, or jump on a BMCC 2.5k and milk that for a few years so then you actually have the budget to buy several 4k cameras.

August 15, 2013

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franko776

I think alot of folks (pro & non-pro) are not discussing a very important aspect of 4/6 K... one can reframe/zoom in in post without pixelation. 1080 is less forgiving in this regard. Ultimately, Pro's have the production company rent them gear a opposed to buying the flavor of the month in this mad consumer driven koo laid slupees.

August 22, 2013

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Babylon Slim

A lot of BMC fanboys floating about...

August 15, 2013

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Michael R

i did a quick moodier grade on the juggler.
https://copy.com/WStMCXZRseEdedXC
Music is this month's free download from Audiojungle.net

The thing that shocked me about the footage is that while it's rather large, it plays back perfectly smooth and doesn't have the compression that h264 does from DSLR's. It also doesn't fall apart while editing.

Perhaps it's just me, but it didn't seem as sharp as 5d2 footage. I could be totally wrong, if I spent more time with it - it probably is sharper, or maybe I just need to add it in post, but didn't want to for comparison sake.

August 16, 2013

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Put the Fuji cabrio then the Canon 14mm and then the Lumix 12-35 on the pocket camera. Original ProResHQ available for download. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaRx16UlBi8&feature=share&list=UUOgTA07w5...

August 16, 2013

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Hey! One short question …

Are all of these Micro Four Third lenses you can buy from Olympus (for example) lenses that fit the Super16mm-format? Means … If i would put on one like the Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45 mm 1:1.8

(http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0058G40O8/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_...)

is there a cropfactor of 3 than or do I get real 45mm?

THX!

September 7, 2013

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Tom

I have cancelled my order yesterday with "magic multi media" in Munich:
I have ordered in April, right after the NAB, had to pay the full price immediately, I am on No. 6 in the list, this online reseller got only 1, in words "one"!!! camera.

Today, 18th Oct. I read at "nofilmschool" a comment from Joe Marine 7 days ago :

"Regarding shipping, it looks like the Pocket cameras are starting to become more available, I walked in without a pre-order and picked one up from Rule Boston Camera, and I was told that more will likely be coming in."

This was one week ago!!!

There is no doubt: In Germany we pay the highest price, about 1200 US Dollar, but we are the last to receive.

Germany is obviously not on Blackmagic's priority list!

Now, Blackmagic is not on my priority list any more!

October 18, 2013

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Markus

Today's coffee brewers will need to create connoisseur style tasting cappuccino, they should
look nice around the kitchen countertop. One cup coffee brewers brew directly in
the thermal mug as a way to preserve the drink's temperature.
Reports of difficulties with even the basic models are rare.

January 10, 2014

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Hey Im a complete newby when it comes to any of this... but i would like to make it hobby. Im pretty dead set on buying this camera but what did you use to color grade these videos... im about to buy final cut pro x but is there anything else i need to get or do?

April 13, 2014

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Jessed