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RED DRAGON Gets Some ASC Love: DP Peter Collister Delivers a Gorgeous Clip from the New Sensor

RED DRAGON Footage Peter Collister ASCWe’ve gotten our hands on a few pieces of sample footage from RED’s new DRAGON sensor, but we’d been told that more was coming from all sorts of shooters. RED has been making good on that promise, allowing more sample clips to be uploaded, and while the following clip from ASC Cinematographer Peter Lyons Collister may not feature exotic locations like what we saw from Mark Toia’s video (and what we’ll surely see from Tom Lowe), it shows off some gorgeous skin tones and quite a bit of dynamic range.

Here is the short test posted to REDUser (download from Vimeo for the highest quality). A better quality version is supposedly being uploaded by Jarred, so we will update the post if/when that happens:

He posted his settings on REDUser:


Beginning Closeups: 85mm Nikkor T/4 60 fps (11:1 compression)

Old man at window: 24-70mm Canon T/4 40 fps (7:1 Compression)

Highlight T/16 incident
Shadow T/ 1.0 2/3 incident

Beach exterior sunset 
Nikkor 105 macro T/22

Pier Night amusement park 24-70mm Canon zoom T/2.8

Lightbulb dimming up 85mm Nikkor
48 fps (9:1 Compression)
T/ 5.6 1/2

Sparkler Test 
Incident 2.8 1/2
48fps 
2.8 (9:1 compression) 

Dog park 
70-200 Canon Zoom 

100 fps (17:1 Compression)
POLA
T/11

Those first few images in the clip are what people (myself included) have been looking for, and to me it actually has a different feeling than EPIC MX footage I’ve seen in the past, even some of the nicer stuff that’s been graded with secondaries to get the skin tones just right. There definitely seems like more dynamic range with the sensor, as the highlights and shadows are holding practically everything (a good example is the clip shot against the window). Again, with a sensor that is as clean as DRAGON, even if it doesn’t have that much more in the highlights, underexposing slightly should move that dynamic range around without penalty to ensure you don’t blow anything in the higher end.

Though we’ll have to wait for higher quality files from the sample footage above, right now the test from Evin Grant is available to download in ProRes LT, which shows much higher detail and gives you a better sense of the noise at high ISOs. You can watch that clip again below, or download the ProRes here:

And if you missed the first clip from Mark Toia, check it out:

I’d be really interested in seeing some log clips that give you access to even more of the details in the highlights and shadows since there is only so much you can infer from graded web footage. Hopefully we will be getting some .R3D files from DRAGON in the next month or so. We’ll update as soon as possible when more downloadable footage is made available.

Links:

COMMENT POLICY

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  • Wonderful footage.

  • Beautiful images coming off the Dragon. I know that the color science isn’t quite set yet, but the skin tones are looking fantastic.

  • Impressive, sir.

  • Wonderful? Beautiful? Impressive?
    I’m not anti-Red but, I don’t think this footage deserves much more than a ‘pretty good’.
    Most of it looks kind of video-y to me.

    • I can see what you mean by video-y in the night shot but that environment would be problematic for any digital camera, given the mixed and spiky light sources. Aside from that, what two shots look the worst to you and which one looks the best? I’m trying to see what you’re seeing and I’m usually pretty sensitive to it but I’m not getting that from this video. Have you watched the 663MB version? It helps.

      • Well, for the record, I didn’t mean to say any of it looks bad. It looks very good indeed. Yes, it has great detail and DR but, as Robert Hunter said, ‘it looks like ultra clean video’. That’s exactly what I think it looks like. It, definitely, does NOT look like film. Film is not this clean. And, It does not look organic, as Alex commented.

        This particular sample looks color corrected but, it doesn’t look graded. Perhaps it was not graded purposefully to, more precisely, illustrate the DR the camera is capable of. If that’s the case, fine. But, without a grade, it look like very clean video to me. Sorry if I offend anyone by saying that but, it’s my opinion.

        That said, I think it is now necessary, in the no-film, digital domain, for acquisition to look like this. I’m not sure it exceeds the capabilities an F65 or even the Alexa but, it exemplifies a facet of the changing landscape of modern film-making in that, as many have stated before, the ‘look’ of the film is moving from the film stock to the grading room. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. As long as the DP, if he or she wishes (and I hope they do), has the opportunity to oversee and guide that process. (I hate the idea of the DP becoming merely a camera operator.)

        My point is that, since we are moving away from the use of film, digital camera footage needs to look like the sample Mr. Collister generously offers above to start with… super clean… smooth tonal gradations resulting from huge DR and great color science… things this camera has in spades… providing a lush and richly textured image the director, DP and colorist can push and pull to their heart’s content.

        Ultimately, I think this camera will be a smashing success… in the hands of gifted DP’s and equally gifted colorists. I love the look of David Fincher’s films. I’m sure he, and others, will realize the full and magnificent capabilities this camera offers.

        I wish I could afford one.

        • What planet are you from? Certainly not this one, that was way too solid an explanation of your opinion.

          That’s a weird way of saying that I agree with you, and post on.

        • Ok. So, video-y in the sense that it doesn’t look like film and there’s nothing else to choose from. I get that.

          I hate to call a piece out, especially when the subject matter is for a worthy cause, but below is an example of footage from the F65 that exemplifies what I think of when people say something looks video-y. By comparison, Peter Collister’s images have more in common with the look of film, which is where I think many people are coming from. I’ve seen Oblivion and it looks fantastic. To me, Oblivion and and this Dragon footage are indicative of camera makers being on the road to regaining what I think is most appealing about film (perhaps it’s the starting point you referred to) that was lost when we went digital.

          For the record, I don’t think the magic of film is solely in the grain of film or in the color response, although leveraging those things in post do help take the edge off digital images. I believe it’s in what happens when photons strike silver halide crystals, the way it bounces, spreads and gets absorbed. Light film with unappealing lighting, do a poor makeup job, have unattractive wardrobe and degrain the footage and film still has that beauty that a photochemical reaction imparts. I said to DLD in another section that digital audio is to the point where they’re starting to do a pretty believable job of reproducing those elements that made analog audio so appealing. I predict digital video will see the same thing happen in the next 10 years. Aaton was already toying with it by having the sensor physically shift position. It doesn’t make sense to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

          What I thought you meant by looking video-y:

        • I’m copying my reply from above because the video caused some of it to get cut off.

          Ok. So, video-y in the sense that it doesn’t look like film and there’s nothing else to choose from. I get that.

          I hate to call a piece out, especially when the subject matter is for a worthy cause, but above is an example of footage from the F65 that exemplifies what I think of when people say something looks video-y. By comparison, Peter Collister’s images have more in common with the look of film, which is where I think many people are coming from. I’ve seen Oblivion and it looks fantastic. To me, Oblivion and and this Dragon footage are indicative of camera makers being on the road to regaining what I think is most appealing about film (perhaps it’s the starting point you referred to) that was lost when we went digital.

          For the record, I don’t think the magic of film is solely in the grain of film or in the color response, although leveraging those things in post do help take the edge off digital images. I believe it’s in what happens when photons strike silver halide crystals, the way it bounces, spreads and gets absorbed. Light film with unappealing lighting, do a poor makeup job, have unattractive wardrobe and degrain the footage and film still has that beauty that a photochemical reaction imparts. I said to DLD in another section that digital audio is to the point where they’re starting to do a pretty believable job of reproducing those elements that made analog audio so appealing. I predict digital video will see the same thing happen in the next 10 years. Aaton was already toying with it by having the sensor physically shift position. It doesn’t make sense to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

      • Hi Brian,
        For the video-y portions, I would say, in particular, the night shot, the old guy at the French-style doors, the dogs running at the park and the orchid shot.

        The opening shot of the kid is beautiful but, the subsequent head shots look like video, too. Very nice video but, video, nonetheless. I say that because I’ve seen other very good video cameras produce a very similar look.

        Unless I missed the BTS somewhere, we don’t really know what the light was, exactly, or how and if it was modified so, there just isn’t much here to really tell us about this camera. Certainly nothing that should elicit a ‘wow’ which, no doubt, will be forthcoming.

        I don’t think slow motion footage of flowers, dogs running in the park, kids faces (young and old), all set to really sappy music is anything to be gushing over but, to be clear… none of my comments here were meant to be disparaging in regards to this camera. In the right hands, I’m sure it will perform as well as other cameras currently available.

        • I know the “Sticks and Stones” video isn’t quite an apples-to-apples comparison because we haven’t really seen any artificially lit indoor scenes from Dragon yet, other than the light bulb and sparkler shots in this video. However, it does serve to illustrate the video-y-ness that people generally try to avoid. The trailer does have a few outdoor scenes that, while being better, are in a similar vein. Under the same circumstances, Dragon may behave the same. Roger Deakins said of the Alexa (I’m paraphrasing) that you can’t just point it at something willy nilly and you have to light it correctly.

          For me, a very telling video-y marker is how light scatters in specular highlights. The c-stand in the light bulb shot doesn’t have that typical “shot with a digital camera” look to me. It doesn’t say “shot with film”, either, but it doesn’t draw attention to itself as being digital in nature. The wider DR probably has something to do with that, both in the higher clipping point of the sensor and the finer granularity in luminance levels a wider DR offers. But that’s just surmising on my part.

          It’s also probably worth mentioning that Dragon has something like 40% more pixels than MX and manages to look smoother and more refined instead of harsher and overly detailed, as one might expect. That’s the case in these examples, anyway.

        • Ghosts are not real. The plepoe who bleeive the see or feel the presence of ghosts are both superstitious and gullible (which is a perfect tradeoff to the user Brittney above saying that plepoe who don’t bleeive are all ignorant or atheists.) It is all random chaos theory. We tend to see patterns in chaos, such as in the beauty of snowflakes or virgin mary’s on burnt toast. A lot of those older photographs were doctored and subsequently disproven (they got better as technology advanced), others are merely shapes or blobs in the background that your mind understands as human faces/bodies. The man on the moon? Same thing. In Japan they see a bunny, not a face. It all depends on what your mind sees. Your vision can often fail you, and your mind can warp how you see things. Like how your mind creates mirages. When plepoe get freaked out, the smallest noise can be considered a haunting. Demons? Get real. From what religion would these demons be from, because personally the ancient nordic version of demons are far more terrifying than its christian successor. Depending on what belief system you align yourself with, how you understand ghosts is so different. I bet you that back before the age of enlightenment, plepoe thought they saw ghosts too. Only these ghosts reflected how they understood the world and were wearing the attire of that era. You don’t hear many stories about plepoe seeing Native Americans running around America.(Because seriously, how arrogant can Americans get? Native Americans lived in this country for THOUSANDS of years before our little stint of 400 years, yet we only see ghosts that wear attire after white plepoe got here?)((Maybe its because the average person doesn’t know what a traditional Native American would have worn, so they don’t assume to see those images in the random chaos?))(((Maybe because one can’t see what one doesn’t know about beforehand? Similar to dreams, you can’t dream about something you haven’t seen while awake?)))The reality of ghosts is so subjective. My aunt seriously thinks that she can speak with animals and they tell her a bunch of things like what they dream about. That is just as illogical as the remnants of a human soul (if there is such a thing) remaining on our world to fuck with the living. Why is it that plepoe only see ghosts when they are feeling vulnerable, and often alone? How many sets of plepoe have seen the same ghost at simultaneously, and remembered concrete details? (Or rather, I would trust groups of plepoe because sets of plepoe can easily fabricate details.)

    • Agreed, skin tones are pasty still. The way I judge skin tones is ‘would they look like that if I was standing in front of them’ and those girls at the start I dont believe would look like that in person. The elderly gentleman shots are deceptive because he has a lot of detail. The camera definitely has detail tho.

    • Someone is jealous and full of shit, as usual. Compare these portraits to the portraits in Kodak demo footage for Vision3 and go away in shame.

      • Why did you pick Vision3?

      • Do you mean THIS demo footage?

        • How nice is that? Effortlessly beautiful.

        • Steven Huber on 08.22.13 @ 3:31PM

          Goddamn that looks good! Digital still has a ways to go.

        • That looks great, but it’s also a much punchier look than Peter’s video…I felt like the look in Peter’s video was much more similar to Moonrise Kingdom, with a lower contrast but saturated look (but minus the extra grading).

          • Now let’s break down what makes this beautiful at first glance vs the Red footage above.

            1. For one thing, this is color corrected (not graded) after a full film scan. If you would scan in film negatives, it would do so logarithmically, giving the flat, low contrast look. It’s only AFTER correcting the luma values that we get this look (i.e. putting it back to the way the negative looks physically). I’m sure we’re all familiar with Log profiles, so this shouldn’t need any explanation.
            2. Kodak Vision 3 is very contrasty, and red and cyan biased; some of its most distinct characteristics. It’s super vibrant overall. With the Red footage, as with any Log based footage, you can add these visual tastes in post. That is, if you know how to do it and know what you’re looking for.
            3. Highlight roll-off is of major importance. With the Red Dragon, it does happen, but it isn’t as distinct (and the previous sensor just had a nasty clip). The extra latitude from this Dragon sensor helps, but it’s not as pronounced as it would be w/ the Alexa or with celluloid. You could solve this w/ diffusion though.
            4. And of course there’s the grain issue. A matter of taste. I love it and it seems many folks do in varying degrees. We have many options today that can help with that, be they digital grain from plugins or film grain scan packages.

            Uh…yeah, that’s all I got.

          • Well what I was pointing out is that Moonrise Kingdom, which was shot on 16mm Vision 3, is much more similar to Peter’s footage than the Kodak reel, and that’s largely due to stylistic choice than innate format differences.

          • Agreed on that second point.

        • I’m thinking Kodak worked long and very carefully with this video. I think they’re feeling digital taking their business. So they put their very best foot forward in that short. It is a beautiful video with carefully chosen, and edited, colors and sets, by, I’m fairly certain, Kodak’s best available personnel. It gets my A+!

          I’m wondering what a short using the Red Dragon and given the same attention would look like. What we’re seeing so far seems to have been done on the shooters spare time.

  • Finally some convincing skin tones from RED!

  • Yes, this is the closest to real life I’ve ever seen.
    Yes, this is better than film and ‘filmic’.
    Yes, this is better than ARRI.

    Yes it looks better than Skyfall (preemptive comment to those who will ask).

    • “Yes, this is better than film”
      Whenever the topic is RED you can always be relied upon to bring the comedy ott RED fan gold, money each and every time. But you usually over do it by chiming in with the insane RED fanning 5+ times per thread. Its funny enough the first time but wears pretty thin over the course of the page…

      p.s footage looks great

    • Robert Hunter on 08.22.13 @ 10:01AM

      Looks like ultra clean video. Definetely not the best thing ever.

    • You can’t really compare it saying its better than Skyfall till you shoot under the same lighting that they did. Lighting is key for film you can’t compare them under these circumstances.

  • beautiful skin tones and this is still old color science. Amazing shadow detail in that night shot. Highlight roll off looks wonderful. DR is very impressive. And you can pull 6K from all this, shot in the 86-100 FPS range. So much to be excited about!

  • Wow, I can’t believe that a professional DP with a professional camera and professional (?) color grading was able to capture beautiful images in an interesting location, clearly this is story of the century.

    Seriously I’m over this camera porn. Maybe give it to some professional DP’s who will show off what the camera CAN’T do well so we can be better educated on what cameras are best to use in what situations. (Maybe in a post film world, camera’s should be judged more like film stocks then actual cameras) Instead of this, if-I-show-off-the-camera-I’ll-get-a-free-package-and-the-producers-will-hire-me-for-the-next-movie mentality.

    • I dont think Peter Lyons Collister ASC has any trouble finding work. Im not sure where you get that idea, its pretty laughable actually. Mark Toias footage was the sort of stress test you were asking for. The camera handled extreme situations very well. Who said its the story of the century? Any cinematographer should be excited that tools of this caliber are on the horizon, regardless of manufacturer. Honestly, I dont know what youre on about.

    • Let’s just clarify something – these videos are trying to make the camera fail. The locations, the cinematography, camera movement is all out to make this camera seem worse than it is.

      But it’s not. They were shooting with firework sparklers as the light source. Professional DPs would never do that unless the want the camera to fail – but it doesn’t. This camera constantly surpases all of these tests – the only thing it would fail in is when there is no light source at all, however when there is no light…

      …so maybe, just maybe, you should get over yourself. I’m sorry that this camera passes almost ever test that these people have thrown at it. Just because the camera is good at what it would never do, doesn’t automatically make it a showcase or as you call it; camera porn.

    • Nick, why are you even reading this article and watching the videos? Looking for something to complain about?

    • As if there’s something to complain about. Well, people are people.

    • Wasn’t trying to say that this particular DP was shilling for the company, I’m just sort of over this level of “camera” test. Just trying to understand the reason behind the fanboy love, not just for this camera, the xt, the f55, pretty much you name it. I’m not surprised when Professionals deliver professional results, it’s expected, These cameras are professional, They should be expected to deliver. (though the sparkler shot was impressive, the rest seemed run of the mill for cameras these days)

      Fair enough I probably shouldn’t watch these tests anymore, but it was late and I was bored, perhaps a little drunk I don’t remember. My argument is that we’re starting to split hairs and it seems like each camera that comes out is designed to be the “everything” camera, to me it would be more interesting to focus on what each camera brings to the table. I.E. if I have a shot lit by sparkler I used the epic dragon, if I have a shoot with critical skin tones I use an Alexa, If I have a shoot that needs cheap aerials I use a gopro3, I have no budget I use the 5dm3 raw, or the black magic etc.

      I guess I’m over everyone going gaga over processed footage that looks good, that seems to me like something from the f900 days.

      I don’t think that the manufacturers should stop developing and pushing the limit, I just think that you should be more impressed when you see professional looking work from non professionals and non professional cameras, which I thought was kinda the point of this website.

  • This footage looks amazing. Doesn’t look video to me at all. No digital camera has this kind of detail and range. look at the shot with the tree! The sky is blue, the sun is facing the camera and yet the tree still looks detailed. Very impressive.

  • Ha I was just talking to Pete. I guess this is what he was up to.

  • Does anyone else mute music on camera test videos so they can look at the image without the ‘emotional’ music?

    • I mute music on *all* internet videos when I want to check out the cinematic storytelling for its own sake.

      In this regard, it’s *shocking* how few hook me and tell a good story from the visual content alone considering how well they can grab me with the music turned on.

      Not saying a video which fails in this regard is a failure overall (think how many good slow dialogue-heavy films would fall flat like that), audio is definitely a key part of the storytelling. But I think, nonetheless, it’s a very revealing way of checking out a film.

      Yes, I do this for camera tests too for a different reason (to concentrate on the visual from a technical level),

  • Anthony Marino on 08.22.13 @ 2:00AM

    Funny Dan, when there’s nothing else to complain about I guess there’s always the music. Haha Love em or hate em, its one hell of an image.

    • As impressive as the footage is I (unfairly) long for an image that surpasses Baraka or Samsara shot on 70mm film scanned at 8k. While I know technically the Dragon should hold up to it in DR and resolution, I am just waiting to see it. As I said, it is unfair of me.

  • Ivan Gómez on 08.22.13 @ 2:00AM

    I no longer know what “looks like video” means. Wanna know what impressed me from this footage? The bulb shot, the subtleties in the skin as its being dimmed up. No easy feat

  • It looks silky, creamy smooth.*

    “Silky, creamy smooth” is the new euphemism for “filmic” (TM).
    .
    PS. Joe, did Mr. Collister mention what filters he was using for the shoot?
    .

  • Kenneth Merrill on 08.22.13 @ 2:24AM

    Wow. This is the kind of footage that really shows of the sensor. I’m for one am amazed.

  • Still kind of video to me. Fantastic sensitivity and dynamic range, just doesn’t look particularly organic or pleasing to me.

  • The Dark Knight looked video to me and it looked awesome…and was shot on film. The first few images of people look just stunning. This color in itself is already amazing. Dynamic range in the tree shot is insane!

  • In the Dragon Skin ProRes you can see the spider web on the bridge wall waving in the wind, from 2:18 to 2:31, so well!

  • Look at those skin tones! Amazing!!

  • Really loving the image that’s coming out of this. Normally it’s hard for me to be impressed with RED footage because of the amount of post work necessary to get the best look out of it but these look very filmic to me.

  • just think about it if they shot this test with BMC camera :) at least hundreds of people would say how awesome and best looking footage that is..
    dont get these indie filmmakers they just hate products that they cant reach..
    Iphone 5 shoots better than Red right assholes? or T3i.you guys just miserable

  • Why hasn’t anyone commented on THIS rather than sparking arguments?
    “Highlight T/16 incident
    Shadow T/ 1.0 2/3 incident”

    That’s nuts for it to capture that amount of measured light right there w/o the highlights clipping and the shadows being too crunchy or noisy.

    I do agree, still not very impressed by skin tones. However, w/ this amount of DR available on the Red finally, that’s one oversight I can let go.

    Just out of curiosity, are the images actual RAW this time around, or does it remain as Red’s “RAW” (i.e. wavelet JPEG w/ metadata)?

    • Production Red cameras never shoot uncompressed Raw without REDCODE. However, with newer fast SSD you can lower the compression dramatically to 3:1 which is mathematically lossless as they claimed. 5:1 and 8:1 are visually lossless, but more compressed.

    • Love your comments KahL, I always stop and read’em when I see ‘em. Wish you wrote for nofilmschool ;-)

  • Finally, perfect skin tone, it was a long time I was waiting for this to be RED.
    This movie has character, lightness and maybe now have too DR :)
    Alexa certainly would do no better and no other camera at this time.
    Now Reduser will be happy, and those who have less Alexa especially for the price, but maybe Arri to ‘IBC will release its Alexa 4k, we’ll see.
    Now back to playing with my 5D: (

    Does anyone know if the new Dragon still have HDRx? and how many stops if you reach 21 stop?

    Luis

  • Impossible to judge “organic” or “filmic” qualities on H264, and no one can. H264 compression destroys subtle details from any camera, no matter if it’s Red, Alexa, Sony, Canon…

    You only know how good or bad a camera is when you open the RAW footage (digital or film) with a grading software and a good monitor (calibrated). The rest is just guessing.

    Anyway, there are three interesting shots in this video in terms of dynamic range, noise and color: man at window (beautiful DR an skin), the dimming bulb (highlight detail in the bulb!), and the sparkler (skin tones and sensitivity). Maybe I am wrong, but i think that you can’t get this shots with the MX sensor, not with this quality. Would be great to watch this shots on Full HD ProRes

  • I think the impressions of a professional colorist would be the best source of the images true qualities. I have a colorist friend who told me that he prefers the Arri Alexa raw to anything he has worked with besides film. However, he has not handled footage from the Sony F65 or the Dragon.

    Colorists are truly the final determinants as to the color sciens, DR, and skin tones in my opinion. Perhaps one could chime in with their thoughts?

    • Hi. I’ve seen this exact footage on a 4K monitor. We’ve also worked with a ton of Arri RAW and F65.
      The DRAGON footage looks really really good. If you own an EPIC I would definitely get the upgrade. I’d book it in NOW.
      Would I buy one, or recommend it to clients? Depends only on their specific production needs. If they want small footprint then yes. That’s how we recommend the RED now, and it won’t change: it sells on its size. :-)
      For me personally I’ve now gone the 5D RAW route and the BMDPC. We’ve pulled stunning 1080 out of the Canon/ML route.

      If it gets ‘hot’, i.e a DP wins an Oscar with it, or the current hot ad director won’t shoot with anything else, then that might tip the market, but otherwise most of the TV drama market is very happy with the Alexa and (slowly) the F55, doco/reality is VERY happy in the Canon 50mbps universe, and indies will shoot with anything they can get their hands on (we just posted a beautiful looking drama shot on the unfashionable F3).
      I think its a tremendous product and will sell pretty well. Will it dominate? No.

      Finally – does it look ‘filmic’. NO. No digital camera does. Seriously. Just as even a LEAF/PHASE back doesn’t look the same as 120 film. Digital is sharper, and still much much harsher. But crushed down to Blu-Ray or Netflix, (or even cinema screens) they can look pretty similar. Digital cinema is like a very expensive fake watch. At the end of the day, its still a pretty good watch. :-)

      • Being an owner of an F3, I’d like to see your drama, Mark.

        • They’ve moved onto sound mixing now, so probably still a while until a trailer surfaces. But when it does I’ll post it.
          I’ve always liked the F3. Came very close to buying one in London in early 2011. CVP didn’t have one in stock and i was shooting the following week. If they had I’d have one now.
          I also saw a high-end reality crew shooting with 3 of them on Universal Walk a month back. Still working!

      • Totally agree: “Finally- Does it look ‘filmic’. NO. No digital camera does. Seriously”.

        No digital sensor is like photochemical. Forget about that, please, that’s not the point.
        I’ve seen terrible films on 35mm, very filmic, but horrible

        Find the camera you need, as any other tool, as a light or a crane. Make it within your budget, with the quality YOU like,
        and do your best to get beautiful footage.

        This is not about maths. Harris Savides shot “Zodiac” on a Thomson Viper, a camera almost disappeared, and it’s an
        amazing photography. Most of us, in 10 years, with a camera generations ahead of the state-of-the-art technology right
        now, couldn’t film anything like “Zodiac”. This is about taste and hard work.

      • Well said.

  • It looks great. i think its going to need a low con filter like the Alexa to make it look really great though.

  • On some of the first video’s more DR pushing shots (like the tree), I’m seeing what looks like noise. We shot on an Epic for the first time this week and absolutely loved it, but I was really surprised at the amount of noise in the image (coming from a C300.)

    I loved the RED and will definitely rent it again, but is noise just a part of the territory when dealing with RED’s lovely images?

    • Most other cameras including the C300 automatically do noise reduction…to get to the same place you would need to run noise reduction on the Red footage (I typically use Neat Video). However if you’re going to 1080p, I find that with a good downscaler the noise usually turns into a slight dither effect which is actually desirable.

  • Nice shoots, but they look like any other “nice shots”. As far as I’m concerned, slap any pro camera name on them and I’m not sure anyone could tell the difference.

  • I think Dragon footage would cut, very nicely, with F65 footage.

  • Man – be great to see Zacuto do another Great Camera Shootout. Crazy to think even since the last Shootout, how many more cameras we have and what they’re now capable of. Does anyone know if there is going to be another Shootout? Certainly time for another one eh.

    • Yes, there is one in the works right now. The shoot is supposed to be completed, and now in the editing room, ready for release at any time. I was told they are comparing large 35mm sensor cameras. But, there’s a chance they may have a couple new cameras in it that are not 35mm. They weren’t sure they could get a new camera in at the late stage in the shoot, because they were released when they were almost done with the shoot. So, I’m expecting to log onto nofilmschool any day now and see the new Zacuto shootout posted.

  • There’s people that say no car has ever looked better than a ’57 Chevy. In the same way some people will always say nothing in digital looks better than film. And that’s alright. They have their own personal feelings about it. I wouldn’t want to dare argue with them over it. Film has evolved since the late 1800′s. Digital is still in its infancy. 6K is the first step that distances digital from film. I know 8K and higher is on the way. I don’t know what film can do to keep up anymore. I suppose breakthroughs are possible. But in a comparatively short, very short, time digital has overtaken film. And it seems that handling memory cards is a cry easier than handling film. I really am looking forward to 8K, 10K, 16K and higher.

    It might not sound impressive for me to say this, but how the black dog’s tongue looked says a lot about this 6K sensor. I don’t think film, 4K, 1080p, or anything else can capture the same.

  • Meanwhile, Dan Chung of Newshooter sat down with a KineRaw bigwig over at a convention in Asia. The bigwig claimed that they will release an outboard recorder by the end of 2013, thereby turning the KineRaw Mini into a 4K camera for ~ $8K or so. The 2K images that EOS HD shot on the Mini recently are gorgeous.
    .
    If one of Red’s major selling points is its small size (I saw MarkLondon’s comments), then the Mini could provide it with some competition. The Mini’s price will obviously be its trump card. With the BMD’s 4K4$4K offering still in the queue, the current 4K price leader is the $12K Canon 1D C. When the Convergent Design’s Odyssey Q7 ships (AbelCine is aiming for October), the FS-700 package will run roughly the same amount.
    .
    PS. With the new camera on the horizon, some older ones are lowering their prices. Panasonic’s GH3 can be had for a grand. 1D C itself was once $15K too.

    • I was just reading—won’t tell you where—that the GH3 sensor is being used in the new Panasonic 4K camera being released in November—the SAME sensor. So the GH is ready and able for 4K but they won’t be making it 4K able…… just yet.

      • The photo sensors themselves, for the most part, have not been the main problem of transitioning from 2K toward 4K. Rather it’s been the processing power + heat + battery drain + media storage / data transfer / data recording. Hypothetically, this could have been done on a larger body – think Aaton or Alexa – but the consumer and the prosumer markets have long been about smaller sizes. The development of camera-smartphones helped with the processors. The advances in NAND technology and faster transfer rates (T-bolt, USB 3.1) are helping with the media. Heat build-up is a mechanical-electrical problem that can be solved with certain types of (very expensive space/aviation quality) materials or more efficiently running processors and codecs or combination of all of the above.
        .
        The deployment of an outboard recorder a la Convergent Design Odyssey Q7 and Gemini or Sony SR5 solves the heat (two separate bodies), the media and the camera size problems at once, which is why it seems to be the go-to solution of the day.

        • I wasn’t told what the name of the Panasonic 4K camera being released in November is. Do you know what line they are putting it in? The AG/AF has a beautiful picture at about $2000.00. I’m wondering if it’s going to be upgraded to a 4K. Of course it wouldn’t be $2000.00. They’ll probably put it in a more expensive line.

          I’m working with a church in Nebraska to buy an AG/AF. They want a professional grade camera, rather than a prosumer, that isn’t at a high price. They’re really happy with the video samples they’ve seen of the AG/AF (here’s one [ http://vimeo.com/32321042 ]), and the fact that professionals have used it to make movies and music videos.

  • Looking at this with the downloaded original file, the 663MB one, i think it looks great.

    I’m not looking at it from the standpoint of “this shot looks good” “this shot looks bad”. I’m looking at it, in combination with what i’ve seen so far, as what am i going to do with it.

    Like a chef tasting a dish and thinking what he could do with the same ingredients.

    Great new tools benefit everyone because remember eventually, there will be a Scarlet version as well for much less $$ than a full dragon Epic. It seemed pretty cool, 5K up to 60FPS. That would be enough for most every production.

    • An outfitted Scarlet Dragon will still run about $25K-$30K. Will the difference be worth it compared to an expected gaggle of competitors in the $10K-$12K range?

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