Thanks for your input, all very good points!
The Ursa Mini is what i immediately gravitated towards when i first started looking at cameras to buy, the only thing that really kills it for me is that it uses CFAST cards as storage. I would have no problem with this if it weren't for the fact that a single 125 GB CFAST card is roughly over $500 CAD, and considering the formats that one would record in on an ursa mini, a 125gb card isn't going to get you hardly any footage. Thats really the only reason I'm leaning towards the Blackmagic Production Camera 4k as it takes SSD's which are much less money per GB. Wish they wouldn't have gone with CFAST or that there there were more options that would allow me to record off board onto something else.
I totally see where you are coming from man, and i respect you in your response.
That being said, I've actually been doing videography work for years now, plenty of corporate jobs with a multitude of cameras. i learned from some pretty fantastic videographers and took some courses as well early on. I know how to operate a camera and how to operate one effectively at that. Ive worked with more complicated cameras than the 5D and have never had problems until this camera.
Maybe the way in which I convey my thoughts/ideas here just isn't working as well as i thought. Like i said in my original post though; I'm fully aware that the thing is capable of producing great video, and the thing has been great to me when it comes to the few photoshoots that i have done. When it comes to video though its not like I'm over exposing my shots, cranking the iso up to high or anything like that. I personally haven't gotten good results myself and have spoken to others who haven’t either so even though i respect your opinion i just have to disagree on a certain level with you.
That aside though, the reason I'm ditching this camera isn't simply because of the not awful but barely adequate results that i have gotten out of it...but if you read more into my initial post and responses to other comments on here its mostly because I'm looking for cameras that simply have so many things that are simply better about them than the 5D when it comes to video production. There is no disputing that all of these cameras on this list easily produce significantly better quality video, not to mention the 5D has been completely outclassed in the last 4 years by a large number of cameras in the same price range and some that are even cheaper (I've honestly seen some better video footage out of a $600 galaxy note). Sure the large sensor on the 5D is nice ill give it that, but the video encoder is pretty awful. The files you get from this camera fall apart in post if you want to do any sort of colour grading meaning that you have to make absolute sure that your footage looks exactly how you want it to look while you’re filming. This is obviously something that would be great to achieve but to be able to grade your footage in post without them looking awful afterwards is essential when it comes to narrative work. It has a very tight dynamic range, noise is bad at low levels (banding) in a number of situations despite proper exposure as well.
I hope I’m not sounding super abrasive or rude in any way, but the idea that the reason I’m getting bad video out of the 5D because “i lack the skill to operate a camera effectively” is simply not true at all.
Dude....that video is KILLER!
Seriously, great job on that! Colours, framing, everything is really solid. Im impressed!
Definitely cool to see that its capable of that sort of work if you try hard enough.
Im essentially buying this camera for personal use only. Any video work i currently do is through this company that owns the c100 so i just use that for free.
I guess i have a couple of situations here that i could go for;
1. Buy a C100 MK 1 (same one works has) put much more work into the filming process to avoid having to over grade footage that won't take heavy grading super well.
2. Buy the Blackmagic Production Camera 4k (this is the one I'm talking about by the way, not the pocket camera; https://www.amazon.com/BlackMagic-Design-Production-Camera-CINECAMPROD4K...). Use this for my own personal narrative work and use the work camera for corporate jobs.
3. Buy an Ursa Mini, better ergonomics than the production camera, footage relatively the same though (slightly better) but let my wallet die a slow and painful death attempting to purchase CFAST cards.
4. Buy a C100 MKII which pushes my budget a bit.
I guess I'm just trying to figure out what is the best option given my budget, desires in terms of what i want in a camera and which camera is best bang for buck. My 5D was sort of an impulsive purchase (which i regret now) and i want to make sure i don't make that mistake again with this.
Yeah, sad about the Digital Bolex for sure, owning one of those would be cool. It would have given me that unique visual style I'm looking to achieve for sure.
The Sony PXW-Z150 unfortunately is a no-go for me. The fixed lens kills it. Without that it would be an option.
In regards to your side rant i totally understand where you are coming from. Ideally, i would like to shoot things as much as possible the way that i want it to look meaning that i would have to do zero to minimal simple colour grading in post. Things just look better that way because they are more natural. The thing is though that at this point in time people don't simply colour correct for the reason of there being something wrong with the footage where as in the past that is likely what they would have used it for. They will intentionally film things in RAW with the idea that it will look awful ungraded, but with the thought that after colour grading the footage will look better than what you would have been able to achieve in say regular 1080. This doesn't necessarily mean it'll look unrealistic or won't accurately represent the real world, but that those colours you get through colour grading will be sharper and that you are more in control of how your footage will look in the end. There are people out there that I'm sure will take colour grading WAY too far and will make their footage look awful and unrealistic as you say, but those are people who don't really know what they're doing and when they should stop the grading process.
When it comes to colour grading though, in terms of narrative, dramatic, or cinematic work i think that for me at least it is essential even if its just a minimal amount of simply colour grading. A video clip conveys more than the just content it contains. Specific colour pallets can convey ideas, feelings, and set atmospheres in a scene. It enhances the mood of a scene. It gives you a way to emphasize the tone and feel of the narrative through colours which is something that can take your work to the next level.
I always like to compare two shows I've watched; The Killing vs. Broadchurch. Both of these shows are phenomenal murder mysteries. Absolutely fantastic and relatively similar in stories as well. The difference is that The Killing takes place in Portland (i believe) and has this very dark and dreary sort of feel throughout the show. Sure thats how things will usually look in a city that rains A LOT, but through the use of colour grading they are able to enhance the emotions and feel of the story through the use of dark and muted tones.
Broadchurch on the other hand takes place on the coast in Dorset. They story is still a murder mystery, but throughout the show its constantly sunny, and the colours used give off this odd happy sort of feeling that i can't help but feel shouldn't be there. Every episode of that show i watched i couldn't help but feel that they were missing that next level of emotion, or were unable to convey the mood of the narrative properly. Im sure that you understand and know very well what colour grading is for, I'm not trying to "teach" or tell you what it is. I'm just giving these examples to explain the sort of things that i would like to achieve through whatever camera i purchase and in the post production process because these are things that i consider to be important.
When i initially had the idea that i was going to ditch my 5D MKIII, it was to get a C100. There were really no other ideas that i had in mind because i thought that to get what i wanted, the C100 was the only thing in my price range. This was until i realized that they had come out with a MK II version of the C100 and before i actually looked at footage samples and spec sheets and compared it to other cameras that i didn't know were in the same price range.
C100 does produce good images, but in your experience have you ever attempted any colour grading or narrative/cinematic work on the cameras? Or has it all just been corporate work? Because if you do primarily corporate work then i would understand you using your C100 99% of the time. Im just really struggling with the footage coming out of the C100'S having a really strong corporate or documentary and not being able to cover a range of styles. That being said i know that the black magic cameras have almost the exact opposite problems in the fact that it produces fantastic cinematic style footage but only really that which would be awkward for some types of work. I guess I'm just leaning towards that because i can't achieve that cinematic look right now with what i have and with the limited corporate work I do the company i work for owns a C100 so i would just use theirs.
I wish the stupid Ursa Mini didn't use those expensive as hell CFAST 2.0 cards, because if it used SSD's that would be at the top of my list. Those things are just so expensive for such little storage that i simply cannot justify buying one. Otherwise i would have to buy the CFAST to SSD adapter thats out there, but that alone costs over $500.
In regards to the sony FS5 I'm totally with you on that. Ive seen good footage out of it but with a lot of the footage I've seen something just looks off about the colours (flat, like you said).
To close, a couple questions for you;
Would you (someone who owns a C100 MKII) say that there is any noticeable differences between the original C100 and the MKII that would make it worth the difference in price?
Would you (also being an owner of a Blackmagic camera, though a different model than the one I'm considering) say that you are happy with the experience that you have had using it?
Thanks for your response, cool to hear from someone who owns both!
Yeah, this all makes sense.
I realize that I'm going to have to make compromises in the sub $5000 range, that being said unfortunately renting is not an option in the city that i live in so I'm going to have to work with this budget if I ever want to get started on these projects.
The problem I have that I mentioned before with the C100 is exactly the fact that its perfect for me if I'm doing documentaries. Im not doing documentaries and don't plan on doing documentaries. Every single frame of footage I've seen come out of one of those things has this incredibly dull corporate look to it. If I were running a marketing company and doing promo videos for local businesses that wouldn't be a problem, but if I have the desire to delve into the realm of narrative/short film projects then I'm afraid that this camera just won't cut it for me. It sucks, because i have shot with one of these a few times for corporate jobs as the company I work for owns one. The thing feels great in hand and is fantastic for run and gun projects. However, attempting to do anything in terms of tweaking, colour grading with the footage from a C100 is hell. Like you mentioned yourself I would need raw or prores for that, and that is the best way that ill be able to achieve that cinematic "look" that I'm talking about.
The Digital Bolex looks cool, would totally consider. Unfortunately (and correct me if I'm wrong) they don't make these anymore, and you literally cannot find them available anywhere for purchase. Not even used.
Maybe I didn't describe well what I'm really looking to get into in terms of work well enough. I currently work for a marketing company where I live and do plenty of corporate shoots (with the C100). The company I work for owns one, and because I've used one and am familiar with one is the main reason why I put it on my list as an option. It has positives for the work i do with that company, but I'm looking for a camera to use for personal projects ( i.e short films). For a personal camera, since for corporate work I can use the C100 owned by the company I work for, it would be great to have a camera that will allow me to take a more artistic approach to my own passion projects. A camera that will give me the breathing room to be creative and experiment more with unique or distinctive visual styles. So yeah, I guess I should have explained this more in detail in my initial post. If what I'm saying now gives you any better ideas of cameras you may think would be good for me then let me know. If not its totally fine, I appreciate your input thus far. I just really want to make sure I consider all avenues and options and I'm afraid that without more than one mind/opinion it is easy to miss or get caught up in certain details that maybe i shouldn't be.