March 25, 2015 at 2:51PM

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The c100 mii, the a7s w/ shogun. Thoughts!

Hey all! Just want to spark a friendly discussion around these two cameras. The a7s w/ the shogun comes around the same pricing as the new Canon c100 mii. Both seem like such extraordinary cameras. The colors from the c100 mii are really beautiful, and as a run-and-gun, it's really just perfect as is. The a7s with a movcam cage, nice little audio source and the shogun is also capable of not only run-and-gun if need be, but some very detailed and wonderful images (from what I've seen). Also, more latitude on the a7s and of course the low-light could make for some fun creative play (although the c100 mii lowlight is quite nice as well).
What do you all think? Any hands-on experience? Which would you prefer to act as a multi-purpose camera (client work, doc work, and narrative work)?
Eager to hear your thoughts!

18 Comments

I would also consider the Convergent Design Odyssey7Q+ OLED monitor / recorder as an alternative to the Shogun monitor/recorder. Th Odyssey 7Q+ seems to have a larger feature set...

New Odyssey 7/7Q/7Q+ Firmware Adds New Features Including 4K HDMI to 2K Downscale and Three Different Flavours of ProRes
http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/03/25/new-odyssey-77q7q-firmware-gives-y...

March 25, 2015 at 4:32PM

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Guy McLoughlin
Video Producer
33065

Ah, yes! I saw that earlier...really like it. If the money is there, maybe I could pull that off. Overall the Odyssey seems like a better choice, just more expensive and media is very very expensive with it.
But thank you for pointing out! I really love how it downscales in-monitor.

March 25, 2015 at 4:36PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

Yeah, the 4K ---> 2K downscale looks like a great feature. The reason for the expensive media is that CD pretty much guarantees perfect performance with their media, which includes not losing any footage if the power is suddenly cut.

March 25, 2015 at 5:11PM

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Guy McLoughlin
Video Producer
33065

Yes, totally, which I love. Also the dual slots are awesome. Just so expensive when compared. Probably worth it in the long run, though.

March 25, 2015 at 6:33PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

I just Purchased my A7s last week, the best part about the camera is just how much fun it is. I find myself always using it, and when you just want to shoot 1080P you can run and gun with it and the outcome is superior to any raw black magic footage I've ever shot (aka my previous camera). Hopefully I can afford a Shogun soon, The 4k will be a blast to mess with! Honestly I've used the c300 & c500 in the professional world quite often, those camera are 100% work horses. Unfortunatly there is no reason to knock either camera, they are both awesome, my strongest advice is if you can wait till NAB so you don't get pissed like I'm going too when something even more intriguing comes to light.

Best of luck!

https://vimeo.com/123235129

March 25, 2015 at 11:18PM, Edited March 25, 11:18PM

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John Fitzpatrick
DP/Director
154

Thanks John! Nice video, love the colors. Seems like the a7s just needs a bit of playing with and you can get incredible results. Then again, every camera needs a bit of playing with :).
I'm going to try my absolute best to wait 'til NAB! You never know what crazy camera will come out next. Good advice. Otherwise I think I'm set on the a7s!

March 26, 2015 at 12:42PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

Do it! I just got mine 3 days ago been shooting with it every night.
Probably tonight also! =)

But I know what you guys mean, NAB. =P
I'm not patient enough.

March 26, 2015 at 2:47PM

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Keith Kim
Photographer
1390

I am many, many things. Patient, sadly, is not one of them haha. But even if something new comes out, everyone seems so incredibly happy with the a7s regardless.

March 26, 2015 at 4:22PM, Edited March 26, 4:22PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

I can almost guarantee that the A7s II with sensor stabilization will be announced at NAB. That'll be a killer feature, especially considering you can adapt a ton of manual lenses to that wonderful full frame sensor.

March 27, 2015 at 2:55PM

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David Luderer
Associate Producer / Director
106

Thanks for the input David, very good point actually, since they are improving upon their A7II image stabilization, would make sense they put in the a7s!

March 27, 2015 at 4:35PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

a7s even straight out of the box is pretty impressive. we recently shot an editorial for vogue and numero. the colors held pretty well too. i would say the highlights around 80-100IRE is pretty sensitive to blowing tho.

March 26, 2015 at 12:09AM

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Kazu Okuda
Filmmaker
1076

Good to know! Thanks for the advice Kazu. In all honesty...with all the reviews and videos (and I read A LOT!), I don't think I have read any serious complaints about the a7s. Little things here and there, maybe, but everyone really seems to love that camera.

March 26, 2015 at 12:56PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

Here ben check this out https://vimeo.com/123317029 that's our a7s footage with no external recorder. it holds pretty good

March 26, 2015 at 11:24PM

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Kazu Okuda
Filmmaker
1076

I didn't know the video was slightly NSFW (not safe for work) hahaha, had to end it prematurely to revisit it later. As tasteful as it was.
But what I saw looked great! The camera continues to impress me. Do you use separate audio? Or connect into the a7s for audio. That was my one last thing to figure out with this set up...an audio solution.

March 27, 2015 at 1:19PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

I have 2 A7s' I use for mini docs, and I love them. Can't leave now that I've experienced that full frame look.

I haven't had any issues with rolling shutter etc., being able to record XAVC-S for 2h 40m to a 64 gig card is fantastic (unlike the BMCC/BMPCC - pain in the butt as far as memory goes), shooting comfortably at 40,000 ISO - basically this camera is an amazing tool in a TINY package.

One flaw of the A7s is the blue clipping issue with BLUE LED lights... it's well documented online. I've been able to minimize the blue clipping effect and know how to avoid it, but it's a shame it isn't fixed via firmware). So if you are going to film a lot of theater / concert / club type situations I'd steer away from the A7s.

I'll stick to 2K land for a while with these cameras (downscaling is so sharp, makes the 5d mk3 look out of focus), but knowing i can grab a Shogun down the line to get my 4K on is pretty awesome.

We have a C300 at work, and I must say the downscaled HD footage is amazing. I comfortably crop to 170% without sharpening. I'm assuming the C100Mk2 performs similarly. The disheartening thing for me is, no possibility of 4K with the C300/100 (i'm sure a firmware limitation).

March 27, 2015 at 2:51PM

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David Luderer
Associate Producer / Director
106

Thanks David! Good info here. I've definitely heard of the blue clipping and how to best avoid it. Unfortunately that seems to be a problem in many Sony cameras, but give/take, right? They do so many other things so well.
And totally agree about the Canon C series cams. They are so amazing (but also so expensive), and it always seems a little mean to me to put a 4k sensor in a camera without making it capable of 4k in any way, shape or form!, haha.

March 27, 2015 at 4:37PM

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Ben Meredith
Cinematographer/Filmmaker
974

Yea sorry about that. it did not cross my mind.
What is really impressive is that we didn't even shoot that on s-log.
We borrowed the camera locally and shot that with no test so we weren't sure. nor have we been able to shoot as much as we wanted to.
It was the shot in the regular format codec. We really almost always just use a small mic just for scratch and sync.
Obviously we didnt use any audio from there, but usually we'll use an external sound recorder and a boom mic.
The advantage of having a compact preamp and mic is so you have fast controls over sound without going into menus.

March 27, 2015 at 7:01PM

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Kazu Okuda
Filmmaker
1076

I've been testing the Shogun with the GH4 for the past couple of days from a local re-seller in Phoenix called BKW. The unit has 2 audio inputs through the HDMI and it also has 2 phantom powered XLRs for a total of 4 audio channels when editing. One of the recent updates is that the unit can capture 4k and send a 1080p signal from the output of either the HDMI or 12G SDI. Having false color, luma peaking, and histograms that show their physical numbers, 80 - 100 IRE for example, can really help you shoot quickly with the results you're looking for.

One quick note, the chroma-channels will jump off the screen when shooting in Pro-Res 4:2:2. In fact, I never noticed how flat the internal 4:2:0 codec was until the Shogun tests. Strangely, I will say the flat color space, in the 4:2:0 looks cinematic. Then again that's just me watching 4:2:0 movies a lot on a computer, right?

March 28, 2015 at 2:50PM

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Levi Davis
Editor / Shooter / Writer
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