September 9, 2014 at 9:53AM

0

How best to match 5d m3 with Red Scarlet-X?

Hey all! I'm using a Scarlet as my A cam and a 5d as a B cam. Any suggestions how best to match the 5d to the Scarlet using Speedgrade? Is there a particular LUT that gets it close? Thanks!

7 Comments

As far as I know, there really isn't a LUT that'll work in that kind of way. That is, to transform "Standard" Canon 5D footage to match the Scarlet's "RedGamma3" look.

The two separate camera sensors and CFAs are manufactured very differently from each other, not to mention that they have their own proprietary debayering mathand inherent dynamic range limitations.

Until ACES fully matures, we won't be seeing any kind of cross-camera IDTs anytime soon (which would conceivably solve this exact problem that you have). Fingers crossed!

Assuming you are shooting with the Standard picture profile setting on the 5D, my suggestion is to grade the Scarlet from RedGamma3, doing your best to shot match the 5D's 601/709 color space. Scopes will lead you through this mess. Careful not to push the 5D footage to far, or you risk producing artifacts since it's only an 8-bit codec and subsampled at a much lesser rate than REDCODE.

Conversely, you can pretransform your 5D footage into a quasi-log, and grade the Scarlet from RedLogFilm.

The idea is to start grading where Cam A and B are at similar starting points, whether that'd be gamma corrected or left in log. You can very much still go ahead and grade from one to the other, but it might be more challenging that way.

As for basic color tips, keep an eye on your black and white balance before applying any looks. Preserve the skintones best you can!

Good luck!

September 9, 2014 at 1:28PM

14
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avatar
Ryan Nguyen
Digital Colorist / DIT
95

As far as I know, there really isn't a LUT that'll work in that kind of way. That is, to transform "Standard" Canon 5D footage to match the Scarlet's "RedGamma3" look.

The two separate camera sensors and CFAs are manufactured very differently from each other, not to mention that they have their own proprietary debayering mathand inherent dynamic range limitations.

Until ACES fully matures, we won't be seeing any kind of cross-camera IDTs anytime soon (which would conceivably solve this exact problem that you have). Fingers crossed!

Assuming you are shooting with the Standard picture profile setting on the 5D, my suggestion is to grade the Scarlet from RedGamma3, doing your best to shot match the 5D's 601/709 color space. Scopes will lead you through this mess. Careful not to push the 5D footage to far, or you risk producing artifacts since it's only an 8-bit codec and subsampled at a much lesser rate than REDCODE.

Conversely, you can pretransform your 5D footage into a quasi-log, and grade the Scarlet from RedLogFilm.

The idea is to start grading where Cam A and B are at similar starting points, whether that'd be gamma corrected or left in log. You can very much still go ahead and grade from one to the other, but it might be more challenging that way.

As for basic color tips, keep an eye on your black and white balance before applying any looks. Preserve the skintones best you can!

Good luck!

September 9, 2014 at 3:09PM

3
Reply
avatar
Ryan Nguyen
Digital Colorist / DIT
95

I would shoot a flat profile on the 5D then when you get to grading focus on luminance first and get those as close as you can, then get your saturation dialled in then tweak your colour. You will have the best chance making the 5D look great then getting the Scarlet to match that since the 5D will fall apart if you try and push it to hard but I have had great success matching the two in resolve so I image no problem in speed grade either.

September 11, 2014 at 1:04PM

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Chase Axton
Cinematographer
1195

If you find a good solution, let me know!

The way you shoot it is everything...

I've tested a few color profiles on the Mark III and have found that Technicolor Cinestyle is virtually impossible to grade (and make look good). Cinelook is too high contrast and CINEMA is pretty good. Still need to try Visiontech and Cinetech.

Here are the links I'm referring to:

http://www.vision-color.com/cinelook-for-canon-eos/
http://www.vision-color.com/visioncolor-for-canon-eos/
http://www.cineplus.ch/cinema.html

And from what Philip Bloom told me, FilmConvert is probably one of the best and easiest ways to grade in Premiere although I'm still figuring that out too. :)

http://filmconvert.com/default.aspx

Good luck!!

October 15, 2014 at 5:29AM, Edited October 15, 5:29AM

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Angelina Sereno
DP/Director
123

And how did it turn out?

(I think it is nearly impossible to match them, image quality wise, unless you degrade the Scarlet's footage. 5D is still only around 800 horizontal lines stretched to 1080, so it will always be softer. So I wouldn't intercut them together in 1 scene. In different scenes it might work.
But I also like to be proven wrong :-)
So, how did it turn out and how did you do it?)

January 2, 2015 at 5:19AM

5
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WalterBrokx
Director, DOP, Writer, Editor, Producer
8638

Are you shooting in raw on the Mark III? If not, that will be the best way to match as you have a ton of info to work with. If you do shoot raw, go through Adobe Camera Raw and set the profile to visionLog. Set the .r3d gamma to RedLogFilm. At that point you'll be working from a level playing field.

January 2, 2015 at 12:53PM

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Luke Neumann
Cinematographer/Composer/Editor
2857

Are you shooting in raw on the Mark III? If not, that will be the best way to match as you have a ton of info to work with. If you do shoot raw, go through Adobe Camera Raw and set the profile to visionLog. Set the .r3d gamma to RedLogFilm. At that point you'll be working from a level playing field.

January 2, 2015 at 12:53PM

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Luke Neumann
Cinematographer/Composer/Editor
2857

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