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Will the new V-Log for GH4 get rid of the absurd amount of digitag sharpening that the kamera apply to the recorded footage?
Will it look less like video?
First rule when shooting with the GH4 camera: Set the profile sharpening to -5 when shooting and then sharpen your footage as needed in post.
The GH4 image only looks like video if you don't set the image controls properly. For general shooting I recommend trying the following settings...
- Natural Profile
- Contrast -5
- Sharpness -5
- Noise Reduction -5
- Saturation -2
- Tint 0
You can also use the Shadow/Highlight control to take things a little further.
Master Pedestal should almost always be set to zero, unless there is a reason to raise the black-levels of your image.
Always expose for the highlights you want to keep, and then lift the shadows in post if you need to. ( you can also add fill light to lower the contrast of your scene when shooting ) You will also have to add noise-reduction in post depending on the shot.
Also, always shoot with the LOWEST ISO setting you can because this will have the MOST dynamic range and the LEAST amount of image noise. Most of the time I am shooting between 200 - 800 ISO.
Shooting V-log will give you 2 more F-stops of dynamic range ( 12 F-stops ) and more accurate color but you will have to apply ARRI Alexa or Panasonic Varicam LUTs in post ( these LUTs can be downloaded for free ) to transform your V-log footage into something you can use. ( Davinci Resolve 12 is free and it supports applying LUTs to your footage, so that would be my first choice )
V-log won't do anything for digital sharpening, but adjusting Sharpening and Noise-Reduction will take care of this for all GH4 color profiles including V-log.
September 12, 2015 at 7:34AM, Edited September 12, 8:01AM
I've been using those exact same settings (except I turn saturation to -5) for the last few months, and I'm quite happy with it as well. I definitely like it more than Cinelike D. It seems like the closest I can get to a fairly noise-free, flat profile until I get V-Log.
September 12, 2015 at 11:40PM
What a shame. It's just too much at times even with the sharpen all the way down.
And thanks for a lot og good advise here :)
- But I don't like the midtones in the Natural Profile I also never turn down the contrast as I think it introduces noise when adding it back compared to letting it be at 0 while capturing. I have been shooting with Standard 0, -5, -5, 0, 0 for 6 months with very fine results but just went back to Cinelike D 0, -5, -5, -5, 0 due to a new LUT workflow.
Panasonic just released a V-log to v709 lut for the V-log profile some days ago, and I belive that that is more correct than Alexa luts. I have been playing around with that and the Cineon converter scince the V-log will take the characteristics as cineon:
This from Panasonic:
In response to the demand from the film production market, log video recording (V-Log L) is now available for the LUMIX GH4, and offers exceptional flexibility as well as wider dynamic range for color grading in post-production process. V-Log / V-Log L were developed to feature similar characteristics to Cineon, which is a characteristic curve for film digitalization. Taking full advantage of Four Thirds sensor, V-Log L boasts a log characteristic with 12 stops. Both V-Log and V-Log L have the same characteristic curve, and LUT (Look Up Table) can be utilized.
You can get it here: http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/e...
Shame about the video look in this device :)
September 12, 2015 at 5:14PM
LUT download link no longer valid?
September 14, 2015 at 1:57AM
>>>What a shame. It's just too much at times even with the sharpen all the way down.
Hmmm... I'm not finding that at all. In fact most of the time I am applying a small amount of sharpening in post to resolve fine details that would otherwise be blurred out.
>>>But I don't like the midtones in the Natural Profile
It's my favorite profile, but I always grade my footage so maybe this is why I like it so much.
>>>I also never turn down the contrast as I think it introduces noise when adding it back compared to letting it be at 0 while capturing.
I'm rarely adding any contrast back in post, as most of the time the -5 contrast is a good match for my lighting.
I do shoot at higher contrast levels when shooting outside when the overcast ambient lighting is just way too flat for -5 contrast.
>>>I have been shooting with Standard 0, -5, -5, 0, 0 for 6 months with very fine results but just went back to Cinelike D 0, -5, -5, -5, 0 due to a new LUT workflow.
I used to shoot Standard all the time with my GH3 camera, but I find Natural to be better with the GH4. I will probably switch over to shooting V-log once I've got my hands on it.
>>>Panasonic just released a V-log to v709 lut for the V-log profile some days ago, and I belive that that is more correct than Alexa luts.
The Panasonic Varicam LOG curve is very similar to the Alexa LOG curve, so Alexa LUTs can look quite good when applied to V-log footage, but the Panasonic Varicam LUTs should be even better.
>>>V-Log / V-Log L were developed to feature similar characteristics to Cineon
I don't know why Panasonic are saying this because the Cineon LOG curve is NOTHING like the Varicam or Alexa LOG curve, so Cineon should be a terrible match for GH4 V-log.
>>>Shame about the video look in this device :)
Again, I have to TOTALLY disagree with you here. I've been able to get great looking footage from my GH4 within the first week of shooting with it, and I expect V-log will definitely up the ante. ( especially when shooting 10-bit 4:2:2 with an external 4K recorder )
September 12, 2015 at 6:32PM, Edited September 12, 6:43PM
One thing I forgot to mention with regards to the "Ultra" sharp GH4 image... Pretty much all of the Olympus and Panasonic Micro 4/3 lenses will automatically apply their own electronic sharpening to the video image, and there are many times where I find this image to be way too sharp to my liking. ( even with contrast and sharpening turned down to -5 )
This is why I like to shoot with a set of Nikon AI-S primes using a straight through adapter or the Metabones SpeedBooster 0.71x adapter, and the image from these lenses does not have that over-sharpened look. ( the manual Voightlander and Samyang/Rokinon lenses should have a similar "natural" un-sharpened look )
If you haven't shot with Nikon AI-S or Canon FD lenses on your GH4, then it's definitely worth investigating, as you might find the finished look of the image more to your liking. ( I know that I do )
I find I'm only using Lumix lenses for still photo work where the OIS and AF can be very handy for hand-held shots.
September 12, 2015 at 6:56PM, Edited September 12, 7:36PM
We will just have to wait and see how well it grades with the different luts. All in all it boils down to personal taste and creative choice and where your personal limit goes for how "video sharp" you like your footage. And if you are shooting a music video og a interview :)
I only have Nikon and Canon Lenses Both Ef & FD, and love the fd look very much. I haven't tried the old Nikon lenses yet but want to get my self a 50mm soon.
The only Olympus lens I have is the 12mm f2 and have had both great and not so great results, depending upon the circumstances. But all in all I'm happy with it at 3.2 and up.
Where can I see some of your work using the graded Neutral profile?
I can't seem to find any links on your profile..
September 13, 2015 at 2:51AM
I don't have a show reel online. I shoot mostly corporate training and educational work, and for most of it I don't have permission to post anything online.
I will put together some frame grabs that illustrate the look that I am getting, and will post a link. It might not be a look that you like, but I am very happy with it.
September 13, 2015 at 4:55AM
That would be nice to see :-)
September 13, 2015 at 11:12AM
Just to chime in here, I agree that the sharpening can be out of control if left unchecked. Unless you like that look, you have to turn it down all the way. I have a similar setup to Guy - Nikon primes with a Metabones adapter - and have been very, very happy with the results. Here's a recent showreel:
I'd rather start with a slightly too sharp GH4 image and have all those details available to me than with a 5D image that looks like mush. (Not that the 5D is bad - I like it just fine.)
I'm happy with my GH4 and can't wait for V-log!
September 13, 2015 at 12:02PM, Edited September 13, 12:04PM
Oh ye of little faith... :-)
Here is a download link to a 5MB ZIP file containing a few frame grabs from past projects. Just click on the link to get to the Google Drive page, then click the download arrow in the center near the top of the web page to download the ZIP file.
Make sure you read the PDF document I've included that explains a little bit more about the images, and also make sure you view these images in 1:1 pixel mode to see the difference between a non-sharpened and sharpened GH4 image. As I've stated previously I find the image from my GH4 to be slightly blurry given the camera settings I am using, so I will often add a tiny bit of sharpening when creating my editing masters from pretty much any of my shoots.
I am pretty certain that almost everything here was shot with the GH4 settings I posted earlier in this thread, which is using the Natural image profile. My LED lights are a little old so I know the color could be better than this, but I am still happy with the end result I am getting even with my semi-crappy LED lights.
I can't wait to start shooting with GH4 V-log, especially on shoots where I get to make things look a little more "filmic".
September 13, 2015 at 2:37PM, Edited September 13, 2:42PM
Really cool of you to share these images, Guy. You're always a great help in these forums, appreciate it!
September 14, 2015 at 10:24AM
Thanks a lot Guy!
I'll take a good look and promise to use my calibrated monitor to you justice ;)
September 14, 2015 at 12:50AM
Your question: "will it looks less like video", is probably best answered by: Don't regard the output of your camera (like a GH4) to be the only and final look of your footage. Take some time to look into all the information on this website and others, about color correction and color grading. It is really worthwhile to learn it (Da Vinci Resolve 12 is free!). Once you have mastered the basics of this "art", your video footage never has to look videoish again. And then to help you, there are plugins (for Premiere etc.) like Film-convert. Good luck and enjoy!
September 14, 2015 at 2:03AM, Edited September 14, 2:04AM
- Shoot with V-log
- Use LUTs in post
- Use FilmConvert in post
- Grade in DaVinci Resolve
- Use high CRI lights
- Light for the "film" look
- Compose your shots for the "film" look
...Any camera can be made to look great or horrible depending on your workflow when shooting on set and when processing in post.
September 14, 2015 at 10:48AM