November 1, 2012

RED Cuts EPIC Price in Half: EPIC-X Now $19,000, SCARLET Under $8K, RED ONE Goes 4.5K for $4K

We knew RED was going to respond to the recent announcement from Sony, and respond they have. RED has recouped their initial costs for the EPIC project, and that means they've decided to cut the prices on both the EPIC and SCARLET platform (since SCARLET shares many of the same parts as the EPIC). If you've been waiting to buy one of these high-end cameras, there hasn't been a better time than now, especially since RED has created an upgrade path for their new Dragon sensor. They've also dropped a serious bomb with a new battle-tested RED ONE MX. Without further ado, click through for the new prices.

This post will be updated as more information is released.

These are the new prices:

  • 5K EPIC-X Brain -- $19,000
  • 5K EPIC-X Monochrome Brain -- $20,000
  • 5K EPIC-M Brain -- $24,000
  • 5K/4K Scarlet Brain -- $7,950
  • 4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested -- $4000 (includes CF or SSD recording module)

[Update]: Looks like the RED ONE MX with the CF module is sold out, as the page is no longer available. You can always buy the SSD version and the $500 module, which is actually cheaper than if you bought the $4,000 CF and wanted the $1,500 SSD module later.

Here is what Jim said about new pricing in a post on REDUser:

As I said before, everything in the electronics world changes... usually for the better, cheaper and faster. EPIC and Scarlet just did. Right now.

We have built an incredibly efficient factory in Irvine, California and over time learned how to make EPICs in quantity, lowered our assembly costs, found better suppliers and fully paid off our NRE. When we assembled the 1st EPIC camera in Stage 6 at RED Studios Hollywood it took our team 12 hours. It took two more days to de-bug. Today we can assemble an EPIC in 13 minutes and 95+% need no re-work after diagnostics and testing. It is a testament to our manufacturing team and supply chain teams.

Since our costs are now significantly lower we are re-pricing our cameras as of now.

For those of you that purchased a new Scarlet or EPIC brain on or after Oct. 1st 2012, the next time you order accessories from RED you will receive a discount to use towards that purchase. $1000 for Scarlet and $4000 for EPIC. Talk to your Bomb Squad representative when you are ready to use this discount.

Now… here is the new pricing:

5K EPIC-X Brain- $19,000

5K EPIC-X Monochrome Brain- $20,000

5K EPIC-M Brain- $24,000

5K/4K Scarlet Brain- $7,950

4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested- $4000 (includes CF or SSD recording module). The RED ONE is End of Life. Battle tested is all that will be available from here on out.

Due to high anticipated volumes, plan on extended response and processing times.

Dragon sensor upgrade is not included for any EPIC system purchased at the new pricing going forward.

Pricing is being updated on www.red.com as I post this.

So how does this compare to the old prices for just the brain? Here are the comparisons

  • RED EPIC-M: $24,000 vs. $39,500
  • RED EPIC-X: $19,000 vs. $34,500
  • RED SCARLET-X: $7,950 vs. $9,700
  • RED ONE MX: $4,000 vs. $25,000

This is big news for the camera industry. Jim has already said that he appreciated what Sony was doing with their new cameras, but that he didn't believe they were any competition for the EPIC and SCARLET. Now we know why, and part of it is price. Since they've paid off NRE (non-recurring engineering) for the EPIC project, it means that the whole system is currently making money with each new camera they build -- which also means they can sell it for less money. This is good for consumers, it means you can enter into the RED system for a lot less money than previously thought, and it also means the new Dragon equipped EPICs should compete price-wise with the new cameras from Sony (without most of the compressed modes of course). This also means we should see some reductions in used camera prices.

Battle-tested RED ONE MXs are a serious contender to Blackmagic and other lower-priced cameras. I don't think anyone saw that coming. Of course they don't feature an ND filter and are based on older technology, but you're getting mostly everything the SCARLET can do (and more since the ONE can do 4.5K) for half the price. They are used, yes, and the boot-up time is longer, but it's still an amazing deal.

You should keep in mind that the above prices are the brain only, and you'll still need some accessories to make them work. Also of note, RED had a deal going where if you purchased $50,000 worth of an EPIC camera system, your Dragon upgrade was free. That deal has now ended, but even new EPIC owners will be able to pay $6,000 for a new Dragon sensor upgrade.

You can find the new cameras (including the RED ONE MX) using the link below.

What do you guys think? Will you pull the trigger on an EPIC, SCARLET, or RED ONE MX now?

Links:

Your Comment

340 Comments

Holy crap. What a time to be a filmmaker. :O

November 1, 2012

-1
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McKay

Wow, the Red One price drop is INsane. Such a good deal...

November 1, 2012

0
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I know, the same camera that was used on Pirates of the Caribbean, The Social Network, Contagion, District 9, and many other Hollywood productions is $4,000. Amazing.

November 1, 2012

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Nicholas

Yeah it's hard to believe.

November 1, 2012

0
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We live in a mighty fine era.
Could this signal the beginning of the end of the DSLR Filmmaking era? Or was it started by the BMCC? Where will we be a year from now, in terms of cameras from Canon, Nikon, and other companies that provide cameras?

So many questions; I can't wait to discover the answers.

November 1, 2012

-1
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Edge

Can anyone say "firmware update" for the 5D Mark 3???

November 1, 2012

-2
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Chris

Wow joe that was fast

and @ chris that was funny

saw comparison from another post, Red one looking good, if you are more concered with making a film and less of caring around a heavier camera then RED ONE IS EYE CANDY.

RED SCARLET VS RED ONE

Lens mount:
- RED ONE is PL cine mount with dumb Nikon mount available (the path to Canon mount leads through dangerous woods...)
- SCARLET can do both PL cine mount or Smart Canon mount (with dumb Nikon of course)
- so basically it depends on the glass you are planning to use / or you own...

Speed:
- RED ONE can do 120 FPS at 2K and 60 FPS at 3K
- SCARLET can do 120 FPS at 1K and 60 FPS at 2K

Size:
- RED ONE is a "monster" - a very large and heavy camera to lug around...
- SCARLET is tiny in comparison to RED ONE (about 1/3)

Resolution:
- RED ONE peaks at 4.5K in wide mode, 4K in 16:9
- SCARLET can do 5K, albeit at only 12 FPS

HDRx:
- RED ONE no can do...
- SCARLET can - but halves the FPS

Accessories:
- You can get cheap used accessories for RED ONE at great prices everywhere
- SCARLET's accessories are mostly on backorder (but should be out by end of March)

- Majtan

November 1, 2012

-2
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Jay slocum

Can't leave out Scarlet gets firmware upgrades, upgrade path to Epic and Dragon as well while Red One is basically discontinued.

November 1, 2012

1
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fuckkkk! RED MX for $4000?????? lol

I was waiting ofr BMCC... Adios baby! I'm goigo to buy 2 RED MX for that price!!

MANNNN! This is crazy!

November 1, 2012

-3
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Alex Mand

Hear that? That's the sound of hundreds of people cancelling their BMCC pre orders. Seriously, could things get any worse for that camera? This is a dagger!

November 1, 2012

0
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Nah, Blackmagic's are frikken fine.

November 1, 2012

1
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Natt

Nah...they're not. Watch and see.

November 1, 2012

0
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YEAH but Final cut pro now handles red files natively also, something to consider BMC or RED one decision , decisions

Just wondering what will be best and quickest work flow between the BMC AND RED ONE. RED one and AJA or samuri

November 1, 2012

3
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Jay slocum

Luke, I was thinking the same thing. I think you also canceled your BMCC preorder in place of the BT Red Scarlet deal as I did??...and now THIS has gotta really hurt 'em. I think a lot of people have been "looking over the fence" at Reds for a long time while trying to find something they could afford. Well now they can.

November 1, 2012

-1
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Ian

I actually never pre ordered a BMCC, was just first in line at a rental house to get one for review. Yeah, this is insane!!

November 1, 2012

0
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Ok. I'm in for an EPIC, or a couple of RED ONEs. Can't argue with that pricing. These are proven filmmaking tools.

November 1, 2012

-1
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marklondon

Does anyone think the Red One is worth buying? Looks like an amazing deal!

November 1, 2012

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Gareth

Are you crazy?? That's the best deal I possibly think on the universe! I've been working with MX for months now. A rented one...

For that price, now I'm goiong to buy 2 of them... I don't care for BMCC now. I'm used to RED material and it's awesome.

It's a steal for that price!

November 1, 2012

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Alex Mand

How hard is it to operate? Are the menus intuitive?

November 1, 2012

-1
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Gareth

Super easy. Take it out for a day and you will be up to speed.

November 1, 2012

0
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The MX is a great camera. Buy with confidence. It may be abut big, but its still puts out an equivalent image to the epic in 4k. When dragon drops, that will change, but it will take a full year for all epics to get dragon. For 4k you get something that can hang with the big boys for at least a year if not more. If you can't make $4000 in a year with it, you have no business owning it. Go for it!!!!!!!!

November 1, 2012

-1
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Nice, but isn't that sensor 3 years old now?

November 1, 2012

0
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Nigel

its not 1080p :) Have you seen The Social Network and others? you cant do that with F3 F5 5D mark III and other shitty Canon so called cine cameras.

November 1, 2012

-1
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Kemalettin

It's a good sensor yet. It's a proven camera, tested. And you can upgrade the sensor in the future...

November 1, 2012

-2
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Alex Mand

No sensor upgrades for Red One :(

November 1, 2012

-1
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its already MX..no need for sensor upgrade

November 1, 2012

0
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Kemalettin

He means to Dragon.

November 1, 2012

-1
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avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Well... But it's a good camera even without sensor upgrade. I will buy it anyway. It's an insane deal.

November 1, 2012

0
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Alex Mand

gotta confess this :) im a scarlet owner but Red One produces better image than Scarlet...i did my side by side test and this is reality.it was $25K when i bought my scarlet..Dude this is must buy

November 1, 2012

-2
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Kemalettin

No sensor upgrades for Canon, Sony, BMCC, Pana...

November 1, 2012

1
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Mike Ross

no it is not it has same sensor as scarlet only weighs more and has a PL mount, so basically you would have to rent or buy expensive Cinema PL mount lens, You could use nikon glass but its a dummy mount still usable though

November 1, 2012

0
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Jay slocum

wow

November 1, 2012

0
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filip

i would like to see classic nofilmschool comments now..Red is dead,Red is gonna Die,New Sony camera gonna bury Red Epic/Scarlet bla bla bullshit..
So whats happening now Sony and Cannon nothing do :) They cant lower prices insanely like these! lol $4K 4.5K cinema camera..pity for guys who is shooting with DSLRs after today..

November 1, 2012

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Kemalettin

:D

November 1, 2012

1
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guto novo

Yeah, surprised there's not more hate speech yet :-P

This deal is amazing though, and I already own a Scarlet....but I'm tempted to get something else now...

November 1, 2012

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Yea cause the haters can afford it now.... Suddenly the tune changes.......

November 1, 2012

1
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holy crap. how much would you need to add to a Red One to get it up and running? and would all those parts transfer across to the Epic/Scarlet as well?

i was thinking of going for a BMCC, but at this price, i just don't think it can compete.

November 1, 2012

-1
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and I wonder how many Ones they'll have on offer, considering they're all battle tested and discontinued? they're gonna go out the door at this rate.

November 1, 2012

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There are heaps of cheap RED accessories around these days. I'd strike as early as possible though.
And 2K should go a LONG way.

No the parts are not transferrable to Epic scarlet.

As to how many... I'd get in fast, but it will be a decent number with all the trade ins that ere executed you'd think. But people are going pretty nuts and talking about buying multiples...

November 2, 2012

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Lliam

i´m dead. i´m in a tibetan bardo or i´m still on the effects of salvia? is this true?

November 1, 2012

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guto novo

Holy shit this is crazy! Looks like I'm buying a RED. Wow.

November 1, 2012

0
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annnnnnnnd checkmate. RED wins.

seriously, the offerings of every other company is just laughable by comparison. canon ESPECIALLY!

November 1, 2012

2
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dave

I remember feeling like I got slapped in my face after red didn't follow up with their "3k for 3k" announcement years ago. I had pretty much turned my back on red and was planning on purchasing a black magic cinema camera. Now I just don't know anymore, I think I may have fallen in love with red all over again.... this is like going back to my ex girlfriend after i've already made out with the new chick, I feel dirty, and I am, but i'm loving every moment of it!

November 1, 2012

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Jordan

I'm surprised by this. I did not see such a radical price drop coming...
A Red One for 4k is an incredible deal, particularly with the MX sensor - I've shot both and it makes a big difference.
An Epic X at $19k - incredible times. I think Philip Bloom just placed an order...

November 1, 2012

0
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Stevie P

People who buy these new RED cameras with lower prices, will pay for 6000 dollars for Dragon update.

About the overall pricing with RED; how about being (here in nofilmschool) honest and doing article how much it really does cost to play with RED stuff...

There are people right as this moment, who thing they can get 5K Scarlet camera for 8000 dollars and start shooting...

EPIC-M W/ SIDE SSD AND LENS MOUNT = 27,500 dollars. Add 13 000 dollards for new Prores/H264-module = 40,500 without lenses, batteries etc.

That 40,500 dollars is the price (without Dragon upgrade !) to get basic camera brain setup that has equal ability with Sony F55.

It is not that cheap, especially when you add the batteries, RED SSD-cards, display/EVF/control unit etc.

Fully working RED Epic camera will be easily over 40 000 dollars MINIMUM.

November 1, 2012

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Juhan-i

You simply...do not know what you're talking about. Ever heard of buying the essentials and renting the rest of your kit on a per shoot basis until you can add to it? $40k minimum for a working Epic...you sir are ridic.

November 1, 2012

2
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So, everytime you for example need that 3200 dollar RED EVF for Epic you just rent it ?!

OK.

November 1, 2012

-1
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Juhan-i

Use a SmallHD monitor. Or plug the $1600 RED Touch LCD in and buy/rent an Alphatron EVF. Plus the 720p RED EVF is $2K battle-tested. You don't "need" a $3200 EVF...

November 1, 2012

2
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avatar
Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

So Ryan, you are an expert: do article that has clear calculations how much it costs to run new "super cheap" Red Epic / Scarlet.

I know that Bloom did one (with old prices). It was excellent and honest article - and it somehow made many RED users angry. Simply because someone who actually knows about things said facts aloud.

November 1, 2012

0
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Juhan-i

evf is serious business go check Arri Alexa's EVF prices and come back here we ll have nice chat :)

November 1, 2012

0
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Kemalettin

Yes. It's not that hard to rent optional accessories for RED cameras. It's actually as easy as clicking your mouse.

November 1, 2012

0
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Bomb EVF is $2k in RED Battle-Tested store, right next to MX..

November 1, 2012

0
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Mike Ross

Well he does have a point. People are saying this will stop the BMCC. I think it'll slow it down but the BMCC is a pick up and play camera. The RED ONE MX isn't. You have to buy expensive add-ons or rent it. BMCC even has mounts for lenses people in most of our group use. Those add-on prices add up. Luke is right that it's easy to rent, but what if you want to do a high quality guerrilla short and don't have time to rent. Great option but isn't always practical. There is a place for both options.

Don't get me wrong, this is HUGE. However, it's not truly in the BMCC price range. What I like is the drive to force companies to create higher quality products at reasonable prices. $3,000 and up there are options galore now. Sub $3,000 needs higher quality cameras that shoot true 1080p now.

BMCC, to RED ONE MX, to F5, to F55, to Alexa...seems like the way things are going.

November 1, 2012

0
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they just lowered the prices $10K and you still complaining..Are you high? if you cant afford Red go try BlackMagic
i appreciate Red's upgrade program do you know any other cinema camera company offers sensor upgrade? NO!

November 1, 2012

0
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Kemalettin

November 1, 2012

0
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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

Just got a Scarlet , but i'm tempted to get a Red One brain, just to hold it :)

November 1, 2012

0
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Marcus

The redone's are not going to last that long, they where just trade ins. I'm sure there must be a few thousand.

November 1, 2012

0
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more than 5000 :) believe me..

November 1, 2012

0
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Kemalettin

i said the same thing that basically they are trying t clear inventory of (shells) of RED ONE MX's but then again, if RED sells start booming because of this price drop, im pretty sure they may make it a permanent stay.

If you think about Red technically gave us something special but at same time not completely undercutting the price and benefits of owning a newer epic. A great deal indeed but please read the fine print and know what you are getting.

November 1, 2012

0
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Jay slocum

Finally a red camera I can afford, but to big and heavy for my work.

November 2, 2012

0
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$5K Scarlet would've been sweet, no surprises here.

November 1, 2012

0
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Natt

HAH. And here I was thinking no one would complain about a lack of "3K for $3K" cameras when there's a 4.5K for $4K camera... But then I guess there's always someone to go "meh" to anything.

November 1, 2012

0
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avatar
Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

No no, it's fine.

November 1, 2012

0
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Natt

yeah they just lowered Scarlet price 1750$..Looks like you missed the Scarlet so called Battle Tested train :)

November 1, 2012

0
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Kemalettin

What's the difference between Epic X and Epic M?

November 1, 2012

0
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Gareth

M means the Epic is hand-machined, the X is just standard factory assembled.

November 1, 2012

0
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Unless you have too much money in your pocket you don't want to buy Machined body. EPIC-X is the way to go.

November 1, 2012

0
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Natt

Agreed. The M is basically a leftover of the time when you had to purchase an expensive machined version because they hadn't set up the "automated" assembly line yet. They kept the option for people who wanted that extra feeling of "special". But, to each their own...I'm a fan, but too rich for my blood.

November 1, 2012

0
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the M is handmade, cast aluminum i believe, and the air vents are rounded as opposed to the angular design of the X. Also, they take your picture with one and you get your own thread in the "M Owners" section of reduser :)

November 2, 2012

0
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john jeffreys

Originally Posted by Axel Mertes
>Jim, Jarred, RED Team,
>
>does END OF LIFE for RED ONE mean that no repairs are possible in future?
>Just to understand what you add to that formula?
>
>If it is the case, it might be useful for young starters to understand, when deciding the pro's and con's >regarding SCARLET vs. RED ONE M-X BT.
>
>Cheers,
>Axel

Axel, great question. We have accounted for repair inventory for RED ONE BT. So, yes, repairs to RED ONE will be possible until that inventory depletes.
Brent BC

Nope... we stocked up on parts.. We will be able to service RED ONEs for quiet some time forward..
Jarred

We will continue to support and service of the RED ONE. End of Life means no more new production.
Jim

:-)

November 1, 2012

0
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this is amazing news for future camera owners from any manufacturer other than canon really. Now the sony cameras have to come in at lower prices as well. Everybody wins

November 1, 2012

0
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Ryan

I will order the MX. Is there any difference between the CF and SSD? I've got lots of 64 CFs 600x. Are they ok for the CF one?

November 1, 2012

1
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Alex Mand

they recommend to only use their cf cards but I'm sure others can chime in here

November 1, 2012

0
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Ryan

I think 600x can handle the data. You can go 1000x but I don't think that cf cards at that time on the release were that fast.

November 1, 2012

1
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Alex Mand

It's not a matter of the headline 300 600 or 1000 data rate... it's all about the maximum data rate that the card can *sustain*, utterly reliably, with *zero* dropouts, for takes lasting minutes... a very different thing to shooting still bursts on a DSLR. Not many cards are up to snuff in that regard.

November 1, 2012

0
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Mike Ross

R1 is picky about the CF cards that work with it; RED own brand work, Lexar Pro 300 UDMA work, other than that you're probably out of luck. They locked that down due to too many problems with cheapo CF cards getting the camera a bad rep.

November 1, 2012

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Mike Ross

My god, get the ssd module...... Please, get the ssd module........

November 1, 2012

0
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I did :-)

But for people at the bottom end, for whom SSD is an unjustifiable expense... they're going to be interested in CF cards and old Red Drives...

Mike

November 1, 2012

0
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Mike Ross

You should investigate, I think only Red CF cards are fast enough for the highest framerates. You might be able to do normal framerates, but you may have to use more compression to keep the bitrate low enough for the cards to keep up.

November 1, 2012

0
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Gabe

you can use cf's with red one but not with epic , they just cant handle all of the power what the epic or scarlet can throw at them

November 1, 2012

0
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Jay slocum

You have to use the RED CF cards, they have custom firmware. However, there is an urban legend that specific 8GB 400x Lexar cards will work

November 2, 2012

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john jeffreys

Thanks for great info again, Joe! And, Koo, you beat my tweet by literally a few seconds. Darn you! lol
Very exciting times! And here I was, about to drop $6k cash on Blackmagic and accessories. Now, the tables have turned. Come January, I'll probably just buy a Scarlet package cash. Incredible!

November 1, 2012

0
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Before we all rush out and get the RED ONE, remember that it only has two lens mount options: PL and Nikon.

November 1, 2012

0
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TehRandax

From Red, yes. Quite a few third-party mounts available, notably the Birger Canon EOS mount, with Impero controller for FF and iris.

November 1, 2012

0
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Mike Ross

EPIC-M [Brain Only] already rise with $1K to $25,000 now on there site :/

November 1, 2012

0
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Ant

How much is it to make a RED ONE MX operational?

November 1, 2012

0
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VINCEGORTHO

At minimum:

Storage: a couple of CF cards. $100.

Power: The Battle Tested cameras come with nothing, not even an AC power adapter. So you're going to need a V-lock battery plate or similar, battery(s) and charger. How much? Depends what you buy, new or used, Red or 3rd party, but figure on several hundred bucks at least.

Monitor: Red LCD or EVF, or 3rd party HDMI or SDI monitor. Another few hundred bucks.

That's absolute minimum to power it up and use it. Then you're ready to throw on your choice of lens and get shooting. You're going to want all the gubbins you hang of any serious camera of course - brackets, rails, FF etc. etc. - but you can make images with just the above.

Mike

November 1, 2012

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Mike Ross

Can I get one going for about $6500?

November 2, 2012

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vinceGortho

In history of digital cinema camera , i don't think any camera company in the world have guts to reduce any camera's prices by 80% of the original price. i have respect for Jim jinard, I am not buying red but still, for other filmmakers this is huge. red had slapped in the face of all the digital cinema camera companies by doing this. great job Jim, god bless you.

November 1, 2012

0
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auri

Agreed.

November 1, 2012

0
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marklondon

Might be time to go epic... i too would like to hear from experienced red shooters/owners what a bare bones epic kit to get u started would cost at the new pricing

November 1, 2012

0
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Touch screen, at least 3x 64gig cards, global media pro batteries, wooden camera top plate, bottom plate with 15mm rod support, and a top handle.

Fcpx will play 4k no problem. In real time at 1/4 res.

November 1, 2012

0
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I think you can't go cheaper than that... and a dumb nikon mount from ebay. Some nikons too... Everyone got some old good nikon glass on the wardrobre. lol

November 1, 2012

0
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Alex Mand

We own a Scarlet and just ordered an Epic. Our cards are 64GB and that is great for the Scarlet as your most common shooting format is going to be 4k with 6:1 compression (best quality available on the Scarlet) at 24fps. At that data rate you get about 28 minutes of recorded time.

However, when you step up to the Epic and go with the most common format of 5k with 5:1 compression (best balance of quality to file size... "The Hobbit" is being shot at 5:1 so why go lower...) at 24fps then you only get about 13 minutes of recording time per 64GB card. That might be enough for some applications, but it's not enough for our workflow so we're investing in some larger cards. I mean, if you're shooting long takes then it's conceivable that you might not even get seven takes onto one 64GB card. I do more than seven takes sometimes. I think you should hope to get at least all of your takes for one shot all on one card except in extreme circumstances so I would advise at least 128GB cards if you're going Epic.

November 1, 2012

0
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Nick Wernham

Whats that new SONY F5 at $6k hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

with this we know that price for f5 will be around the 15k mark, it is in competetion with epic, seriously dobut that sony will lower price lower than 6k but if they do then............................................

November 1, 2012

1
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Jay slocum

they cant :) FS700 is already around 8K.

November 1, 2012

0
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Kemalettin

Fingers crossed for an FS700 price drop...

November 2, 2012

0
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Feels like all the 4k brigade all have their best poker faces on - they know that the playing field is changing dramatically which is wonderful , so one wonders who will call it checkmate and put the final nail in the proverbial sale ? Interesting times indeed ;) hold back from your wallets y'all

November 1, 2012

0
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Sam

Could someone explain a full breakdown of the differences between the Scarlet and Epic? I understand that there are higher frame rates and blacks resolve a bit better on the Epic, but is that leap up from the new Scarlet price completely worth it?

November 1, 2012

0
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People say there is a visual different, but I don't see it. I had a scarlet it looked great. When I got my epic, it was the same, just with 5k and waaaaaay more frame rates.

November 1, 2012

0
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.....am I the only one who is seeing the SAME Scarlet price on their website?

November 1, 2012

0
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TehRandax

Bahahah - bait and switch - the Red one MX with CF recorder are all sold out! DOH!!!

November 1, 2012

0
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Paul

What is the advantage to really get RED ONE-MX now? I thought GH2 beat its resolution through the Hack in one of the YouTube videos.

November 1, 2012

0
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Ummmm no.....

November 1, 2012

0
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Hah, maybe at their 240p resolution setting?

November 1, 2012

0
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avatar
Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

Lol

November 2, 2012

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are they any safe, and cheaper 3rd party SSD options that work with red?

November 1, 2012

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No. That's part of the reason RED can afford to lower the camera's prices.

November 1, 2012

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no forget it..i tried and no chance :)

November 1, 2012

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Kemalettin

It needs a hack; I'm working on it but don't expect anything too soon.

November 1, 2012

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Mike Ross

There is nothing better than competition to bring down prices-- The filmmakers win.

November 1, 2012

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No more red MX with CF cards... lol

I wonder how long the SSDs will last...

November 1, 2012

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Alex Mand

A week I guess... lol

November 1, 2012

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Alex Mand

just ordered one

November 1, 2012

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vik

Just throwing it out there - I know a camera isnt an investment BUT at $4k and given the supply will soon run out - isnt there a chance the Red One's will potentially INCREASE in value - if ever so slightly? Supply and demand?

November 1, 2012

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Paul

So, does anyone know what a Red ONE MX would cost if you used 3rd party parts? Are there 3rd party parts? It looks like on the site I'd be needing a way to capture media, as well as power the body. I've never shot red before, so I'm not sure at all what I'd need. I have an EVF already btw.

November 1, 2012

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You'll need decent sticks and head, a V lock or Anton battery rig, and at least a top handle (there are a few of those available). The sticks are the expensive part, although the new Manfrotto heads will take it. Kessler Hercules a good base.
I have a Sachtler 18, which are available used for about 3k.

November 1, 2012

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marklondon

SO BASICALLY it will cost about an extra $4k for decents sticks,head, and assories including evf to make the ONE X shoot ready not including media

November 2, 2012

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Jay slocum

The red one deal is tempting, but with needing PL glass, a beefier tripod and rig to handle the extra weight, I think it might end up costing the same as a scarlet setup keeping my current EF glass, rig and tripod.

November 1, 2012

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FML i dont have $4,000 now wtf

November 1, 2012

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Stan Perry

So realistically, if someone wants to buy one of those used $4000 ONE MX brain units, what do they need to kit it out in the most basic fashion possible? Assume you already have a tripod and that sort of stuff, but say a decent "interview" lens (say, 50mm equivalent?) and whatever records to CF cards and a modest monitor and whatever else is needed to actually run it?

What kind of total investment would that be? An additional $4000? Twice that? Ten times that? I have no idea because I've never even considered RED before.

November 1, 2012

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trackofalljades

I think pretty much just a battery system beyond what you listed...there are a bunch of cheap third party and used options for these things too. You've got tons of V-mount battery options for example. Honestly, I'd spend the $4000 and figure the details out later...there are just so many cheap options, you could probably basically spend the same you would getting accessories for the BMCC.

November 1, 2012

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Gabe

Yep.

November 1, 2012

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marklondon

Are you really sure that it is just going to be USD 4k (for brain) + USD 4k (for accessories)? I know that there are many battery options that is cheaper than what RED is offering but what about the Recording Media? I thought there is no way to record this except to Proprietary RED SSD?

November 1, 2012

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Depends if you get the CF or SSD one. But yeah it might bump it up a little for media...but you don't have to buy them new. Other than that, the Red One is much more like a traditional camera, no need for touchscreens or a bunch of modules, ect. There were a lot of Red One's sold...that means there are a ton of cheap accessories on the market.

November 1, 2012

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Gabe

It seems that it is only on nofilmschool that you here people talking about 6k to 8k configuration. On every other site everyone is talking more about 12k. That is only for the camera, you have to add a tripod that will cost about the same as the 4k of the camera itself. You also have to consider that these are second hand unit even if they are manufactured refurbish. So a good advice is to get a 2 years warranty which will be another $ 1500. So I advise everyone who are on a budget to do there math and just not listen to one voice and make a proper research.

November 2, 2012

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Danyyyel

You can shoot with as little or as much as you want. There are definitely cheaper tripods out there than $4,000, and many that people already own are right around the limit that a RED ONE package will weigh.

Here you go, $1,050, will easily handle most RED packages you'll be using: Libec RS-450M Professional 2-Stage Aluminum Tripod System with Mid Spreader

This is a DIY site, and what comes with that, are people who find cheaper solutions to problems that "professionals" assume can only be solved by spending a lot more money. Is more expensive gear better? Could be, but there are diminishing returns. You could easily put together a camera system for around $7,000-$8,000 which includes everything you need to shoot something, and since the RED ONE MX can shoot CF cards, those could save you a ton of money. You would just need to add that $500 module.

Here's the thing, if you own anything at all and have been making purchases that scale with your camera systems, you're probably not building a whole new rig. Yes maybe it will cost you $12,000 if you are starting from scratch, but I would not suggest anyone starting from scratch buy a RED ONE MX as their first camera.

November 2, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Define battle tested

November 1, 2012

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Galo

Used in some way.

November 1, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Used to some degree, refurbished, given QC, and sold with short warranty.

November 1, 2012

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Mike Ross

there is NO pricecut on Scarlet!
Please point that out in your post!
new price is WITHOUT side-SSD and Mount!!
Old prices were WITH side-SSD and Mount, if you add those, price will be almost the same as the price from Nov. 3rd last year.

November 1, 2012

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Michael

New price is $7950 brain only. Yesterday that was $9700 brain only. How is that not a price cut?

Yes, they're close to what they were when originally announced, if that's what you're looking for.

November 1, 2012

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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

Yeah, but still $400 more if you take accessories into account ;-) EARLY ADOPTERS RULE!!!

Kidding, kidding...

November 1, 2012

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My understanding is the BT Scarlet packages from a week ago were $3000 cheaper than these "new" ones similarly configured. So not the best. deal. ever.

Either way, you are still looking at memory at $9000 per terabyte. Commodity SSDs of the same speed are $800 per terabyte. I can't get past that. That is outrageous. I would be banned from owning their products for "having a bad attitude." What about their attitude?

November 1, 2012

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Peter

What company with a proven camera system doesn't charge a lot on media? Both Sony and Panasonic have pricing similar to Red's. You can't use BMCC as a standard.

November 1, 2012

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Gabe

Sony is currently $11,400 per terabyte for SR: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/831335-REG/Sony_SR_512S55_SR_512S5...

Sony is $10,864 per terabyte for SxS: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/737232-REG/Sony_SBS_64G1A_SxS_1_G1...

Panasonic is $10,960 per terabyte for P2: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/878244-REG/Panasonic_aj_p2e064fg_F...

RED is $7,800 per terabyte (two 512GB modules at $3,900 each)

So even if we want to complain that they are using regular SSDs and charging more, it's not much different than what's capable with any of the other camera systems. How about Canon? Yeah, CF cards and SD cards, but for what, 8-bit 50mbps 1080p? Unless you're shooting documentaries, you're not shooting more than a few hours per day anyway, and who is to say you can't format on location if you're handling offloading to multiple hard drives right on site. Just because you might need 5 hours of record time, does not mean everyone does. I could only see myself needing 1 terabyte if I was shooting 5K at 120fps, which no camera can currently do (besides RED).

What about Canon's RAW? Uncompressed 4K, which ends up being a far bigger deal on the post end unless you convert to another format like Cineform RAW. It's just like Blackmagic Cinema Camera RAW data rates, except you're dealing with 4K and not 2.5K.

November 1, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Sony SRMemory has native RAID-5 RED DOES NOT.

Besides, why you chose the fastest SRMemory ? 2,5 gigabits SRMemory from sony is 8000 dollars for terabyte :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/831331-REG/Sony_SR_512S25_SR_512S2...

And it is still faster than "normal" RED SSD:s.

November 1, 2012

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Juhan-i

Actually I forgot Sony developed the 1TB models. The 1 Terabyte 2.5 Gbps card can't do higher frame rates, but it's only $6,000. They don't seem to list a price for the 1 Terabyte 5.5 Gbps card. So yes, Sony is cheaper there. But still, it takes a $20,000 recorder to do 4K, so it's a $100,000 camera system or more.

With RED you have the compression options, so you can actually record these higher frame rates on the 64GB to 512GB cards.

Sony could very well produce the new 512GB AXSM for pretty cheap and the 4K recorder for $5K and they could be cheaper than what RED is doing. All I'm trying to say is the situation isn't that much different anywhere else. RED is charging a premium, no question, but then so is everyone else.

November 1, 2012

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Lol. Joe is slowly turning to the dark side.

November 2, 2012

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RED leads the second wave of pro camera price/features revolution!:D Now everybody has to drop prices again! Kudos to RED!:) Still want a BMCC though..for the color science...and internal Proress. F5 for slo mo though..most likely it will be below 10K.

November 1, 2012

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quobetah

RED would "make an obscene profit" if it could. (Quote from Jim Jannard at http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87757-Everything-changes-IMP...)

RED could not sell the EPIC at the previous price of $34,500 (EPIC-X) or $39,500 (EPIC-M). Lowering the price of the EPIC models by 45% and 39% (respectively) is a sign that the company is in trouble.

RED is being squeezed from below (Blackmagic), above (Sony), and sideways (Canon). RED is a private company, so no outsider knows how much money they are making (or losing).

Why not lower the price of the accessories as well as the "brains"? Maybe RED makes a great deal of profit on accessories?

The mandatory REDMAG drives are sold at a price approximately six times higher than retail 1.8-inch SSD drives of the same capacity and sufficient write speed (for example, the Kingston SVP180S2 series). How much of that is profit? 83%? Remember that RED does not buy the drives at retail. Just because Sony also requires expensive proprietary storage (SxS cards) does not make it reasonable or right.

November 1, 2012

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Vlas

What makes you think computer SSDs and camera media are directly comparable when every major company has pricing like Red's?

November 1, 2012

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Gabe

Little camera companies don't have the hops to innovate on mass storage vs. the broad market. They are just trying to hide profits from the foolish first-time buyer. "Wow 5K for under $20K!!!!"

November 1, 2012

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Peter

Have you ever seen a Red SSD in real life? It's clearly not the same thing as a computer SSD. The build quality alone warrants the price, a computer SSD would be in pieces if it received a fraction the beating a Red SSD can take.

November 1, 2012

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Gabe

Actually it is. Internally it's totally standard off-the-shelf Toshiba SSD modules - *with some very special firmware* to allow absolutely rock-solid write performance however long the take.

November 1, 2012

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Mike Ross

November 1, 2012

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Mike Ross

This is a great misconception about SSDs. An SSD has no moving parts - they don't generate heat, and they are extremely hard to damaged (unless you throw one against a wall as hard as you can). They also have around 1,500,000 - 2,000,000 hours of operation time. RED propriety media, as well as Sony's, Canon's and Panasonic, are all rip-offs. They are nothing but re-housed SSD drivers. The reason RED can drop the price so sharply on their cameras is because they make it back on accessories.

November 1, 2012

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Voltaire

@Mike, I wasn't talking about the inside though.

November 1, 2012

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Gabe

What about AJA ki pro mini that has new firmware that supports red 2k and 4k to pro res, is it possible even though the AJA has 10bit versus red 12 bit, how would that work set up wise as capturing media for quicker post as opposed to ssd cards from red.

November 2, 2012

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Jay slocum

They sold quite a few EPICs at that price. At this price? I know plenty of small prodcos that will now buy one.

November 1, 2012

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marklondon

The RED business model has always been about hiding the cost. They hide the real price of camera system in accessories, especially in SSDs and similar things.

November 1, 2012

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Juhan-i

So should I get the RED ONE M-X now? Anyone??

November 1, 2012

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If you make music vids, commercials and drama, sure. Plan on a 3 year obsolescence.

November 1, 2012

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marklondon

I think you got a week to think about it... Their supply wouldn't go beyond that I guess.... 2 weeks most....

November 1, 2012

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Alex Mand

agreed. I'm climbing in tomorrow.

November 1, 2012

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marklondon

I wonder if history will repeat on November 2013 or 2014 and we will see Epic X for $4-6k? I'm going to wait till then ;-)

November 1, 2012

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Paul

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