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RED Cuts EPIC Price in Half: EPIC-X Now $19,000, SCARLET Under $8K, RED ONE Goes 4.5K for $4K

11.1.12 @ 8:17PM Tags : , , , ,

We knew RED was going to respond to the recent announcement from Sony, and respond they have. RED has recouped their initial costs for the EPIC project, and that means they’ve decided to cut the prices on both the EPIC and SCARLET platform (since SCARLET shares many of the same parts as the EPIC). If you’ve been waiting to buy one of these high-end cameras, there hasn’t been a better time than now, especially since RED has created an upgrade path for their new Dragon sensor. They’ve also dropped a serious bomb with a new battle-tested RED ONE MX. Without further ado, click through for the new prices.

This post will be updated as more information is released.

These are the new prices:

  • 5K EPIC-X Brain – $19,000
  • 5K EPIC-X Monochrome Brain – $20,000
  • 5K EPIC-M Brain – $24,000
  • 5K/4K Scarlet Brain – $7,950
  • 4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested – $4000 (includes CF or SSD recording module)

[Update]: Looks like the RED ONE MX with the CF module is sold out, as the page is no longer available. You can always buy the SSD version and the $500 module, which is actually cheaper than if you bought the $4,000 CF and wanted the $1,500 SSD module later.

Here is what Jim said about new pricing in a post on REDUser:

As I said before, everything in the electronics world changes… usually for the better, cheaper and faster. EPIC and Scarlet just did. Right now.

We have built an incredibly efficient factory in Irvine, California and over time learned how to make EPICs in quantity, lowered our assembly costs, found better suppliers and fully paid off our NRE. When we assembled the 1st EPIC camera in Stage 6 at RED Studios Hollywood it took our team 12 hours. It took two more days to de-bug. Today we can assemble an EPIC in 13 minutes and 95+% need no re-work after diagnostics and testing. It is a testament to our manufacturing team and supply chain teams.

Since our costs are now significantly lower we are re-pricing our cameras as of now.

For those of you that purchased a new Scarlet or EPIC brain on or after Oct. 1st 2012, the next time you order accessories from RED you will receive a discount to use towards that purchase. $1000 for Scarlet and $4000 for EPIC. Talk to your Bomb Squad representative when you are ready to use this discount.

Now… here is the new pricing:

5K EPIC-X Brain- $19,000

5K EPIC-X Monochrome Brain- $20,000

5K EPIC-M Brain- $24,000

5K/4K Scarlet Brain- $7,950

4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested- $4000 (includes CF or SSD recording module). The RED ONE is End of Life. Battle tested is all that will be available from here on out.

Due to high anticipated volumes, plan on extended response and processing times.

Dragon sensor upgrade is not included for any EPIC system purchased at the new pricing going forward.

Pricing is being updated on www.red.com as I post this.

So how does this compare to the old prices for just the brain? Here are the comparisons

  • RED EPIC-M: $24,000 vs. $39,500
  • RED EPIC-X: $19,000 vs. $34,500
  • RED SCARLET-X: $7,950 vs. $9,700
  • RED ONE MX: $4,000 vs. $25,000


This is big news for the camera industry. Jim has already said that he appreciated what Sony was doing with their new cameras, but that he didn’t believe they were any competition for the EPIC and SCARLET. Now we know why, and part of it is price. Since they’ve paid off NRE (non-recurring engineering) for the EPIC project, it means that the whole system is currently making money with each new camera they build — which also means they can sell it for less money. This is good for consumers, it means you can enter into the RED system for a lot less money than previously thought, and it also means the new Dragon equipped EPICs should compete price-wise with the new cameras from Sony (without most of the compressed modes of course). This also means we should see some reductions in used camera prices.

Battle-tested RED ONE MXs are a serious contender to Blackmagic and other lower-priced cameras. I don’t think anyone saw that coming. Of course they don’t feature an ND filter and are based on older technology, but you’re getting mostly everything the SCARLET can do (and more since the ONE can do 4.5K) for half the price. They are used, yes, and the boot-up time is longer, but it’s still an amazing deal.

You should keep in mind that the above prices are the brain only, and you’ll still need some accessories to make them work. Also of note, RED had a deal going where if you purchased $50,000 worth of an EPIC camera system, your Dragon upgrade was free. That deal has now ended, but even new EPIC owners will be able to pay $6,000 for a new Dragon sensor upgrade.

You can find the new cameras (including the RED ONE MX) using the link below.

What do you guys think? Will you pull the trigger on an EPIC, SCARLET, or RED ONE MX now?

Links:

Related Posts

  1. RED EPIC-X Now Available for Ordering, SCARLET-X Increasing in Price by $2K
  2. RED to Cut Prices on EPIC and SCARLET Cameras November 1st, Dragon Sensor Delayed
  3. RED Claims Dragon Sensor Doubles EPIC/SCARLET Sensitivity, ISO 2000 Cleaner Than ISO 800

COMMENT POLICY

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  • Might be time to go epic… i too would like to hear from experienced red shooters/owners what a bare bones epic kit to get u started would cost at the new pricing

    • Touch screen, at least 3x 64gig cards, global media pro batteries, wooden camera top plate, bottom plate with 15mm rod support, and a top handle.

      Fcpx will play 4k no problem. In real time at 1/4 res.

      • I think you can’t go cheaper than that… and a dumb nikon mount from ebay. Some nikons too… Everyone got some old good nikon glass on the wardrobre. lol

      • Nick Wernham on 11.1.12 @ 10:17PM

        We own a Scarlet and just ordered an Epic. Our cards are 64GB and that is great for the Scarlet as your most common shooting format is going to be 4k with 6:1 compression (best quality available on the Scarlet) at 24fps. At that data rate you get about 28 minutes of recorded time.

        However, when you step up to the Epic and go with the most common format of 5k with 5:1 compression (best balance of quality to file size… “The Hobbit” is being shot at 5:1 so why go lower…) at 24fps then you only get about 13 minutes of recording time per 64GB card. That might be enough for some applications, but it’s not enough for our workflow so we’re investing in some larger cards. I mean, if you’re shooting long takes then it’s conceivable that you might not even get seven takes onto one 64GB card. I do more than seven takes sometimes. I think you should hope to get at least all of your takes for one shot all on one card except in extreme circumstances so I would advise at least 128GB cards if you’re going Epic.

  • Jay slocum on 11.1.12 @ 9:41PM

    Whats that new SONY F5 at $6k hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    with this we know that price for f5 will be around the 15k mark, it is in competetion with epic, seriously dobut that sony will lower price lower than 6k but if they do then……………………………………..

  • Feels like all the 4k brigade all have their best poker faces on – they know that the playing field is changing dramatically which is wonderful , so one wonders who will call it checkmate and put the final nail in the proverbial sale ? Interesting times indeed ;) hold back from your wallets y’all

  • Could someone explain a full breakdown of the differences between the Scarlet and Epic? I understand that there are higher frame rates and blacks resolve a bit better on the Epic, but is that leap up from the new Scarlet price completely worth it?

    • People say there is a visual different, but I don’t see it. I had a scarlet it looked great. When I got my epic, it was the same, just with 5k and waaaaaay more frame rates.

  • …..am I the only one who is seeing the SAME Scarlet price on their website?

  • Bahahah – bait and switch – the Red one MX with CF recorder are all sold out! DOH!!!

  • are they any safe, and cheaper 3rd party SSD options that work with red?

  • There is nothing better than competition to bring down prices– The filmmakers win.

  • No more red MX with CF cards… lol

    I wonder how long the SSDs will last…

  • Just throwing it out there – I know a camera isnt an investment BUT at $4k and given the supply will soon run out – isnt there a chance the Red One’s will potentially INCREASE in value – if ever so slightly? Supply and demand?

  • So, does anyone know what a Red ONE MX would cost if you used 3rd party parts? Are there 3rd party parts? It looks like on the site I’d be needing a way to capture media, as well as power the body. I’ve never shot red before, so I’m not sure at all what I’d need. I have an EVF already btw.

    • You’ll need decent sticks and head, a V lock or Anton battery rig, and at least a top handle (there are a few of those available). The sticks are the expensive part, although the new Manfrotto heads will take it. Kessler Hercules a good base.
      I have a Sachtler 18, which are available used for about 3k.

      • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 3:48AM

        SO BASICALLY it will cost about an extra $4k for decents sticks,head, and assories including evf to make the ONE X shoot ready not including media

  • The red one deal is tempting, but with needing PL glass, a beefier tripod and rig to handle the extra weight, I think it might end up costing the same as a scarlet setup keeping my current EF glass, rig and tripod.

  • FML i dont have $4,000 now wtf

  • trackofalljades on 11.1.12 @ 10:23PM

    So realistically, if someone wants to buy one of those used $4000 ONE MX brain units, what do they need to kit it out in the most basic fashion possible? Assume you already have a tripod and that sort of stuff, but say a decent “interview” lens (say, 50mm equivalent?) and whatever records to CF cards and a modest monitor and whatever else is needed to actually run it?

    What kind of total investment would that be? An additional $4000? Twice that? Ten times that? I have no idea because I’ve never even considered RED before.

    • I think pretty much just a battery system beyond what you listed…there are a bunch of cheap third party and used options for these things too. You’ve got tons of V-mount battery options for example. Honestly, I’d spend the $4000 and figure the details out later…there are just so many cheap options, you could probably basically spend the same you would getting accessories for the BMCC.

      • Yep.

      • Are you really sure that it is just going to be USD 4k (for brain) + USD 4k (for accessories)? I know that there are many battery options that is cheaper than what RED is offering but what about the Recording Media? I thought there is no way to record this except to Proprietary RED SSD?

        • Depends if you get the CF or SSD one. But yeah it might bump it up a little for media…but you don’t have to buy them new. Other than that, the Red One is much more like a traditional camera, no need for touchscreens or a bunch of modules, ect. There were a lot of Red One’s sold…that means there are a ton of cheap accessories on the market.

          • It seems that it is only on nofilmschool that you here people talking about 6k to 8k configuration. On every other site everyone is talking more about 12k. That is only for the camera, you have to add a tripod that will cost about the same as the 4k of the camera itself. You also have to consider that these are second hand unit even if they are manufactured refurbish. So a good advice is to get a 2 years warranty which will be another $ 1500. So I advise everyone who are on a budget to do there math and just not listen to one voice and make a proper research.

          • Joe Marine on 11.2.12 @ 3:22PM

            You can shoot with as little or as much as you want. There are definitely cheaper tripods out there than $4,000, and many that people already own are right around the limit that a RED ONE package will weigh.

            Here you go, $1,050, will easily handle most RED packages you’ll be using: Libec RS-450M Professional 2-Stage Aluminum Tripod System with Mid Spreader

            This is a DIY site, and what comes with that, are people who find cheaper solutions to problems that “professionals” assume can only be solved by spending a lot more money. Is more expensive gear better? Could be, but there are diminishing returns. You could easily put together a camera system for around $7,000-$8,000 which includes everything you need to shoot something, and since the RED ONE MX can shoot CF cards, those could save you a ton of money. You would just need to add that $500 module.

            Here’s the thing, if you own anything at all and have been making purchases that scale with your camera systems, you’re probably not building a whole new rig. Yes maybe it will cost you $12,000 if you are starting from scratch, but I would not suggest anyone starting from scratch buy a RED ONE MX as their first camera.

  • Define battle tested

  • there is NO pricecut on Scarlet!
    Please point that out in your post!
    new price is WITHOUT side-SSD and Mount!!
    Old prices were WITH side-SSD and Mount, if you add those, price will be almost the same as the price from Nov. 3rd last year.

    • New price is $7950 brain only. Yesterday that was $9700 brain only. How is that not a price cut?

      Yes, they’re close to what they were when originally announced, if that’s what you’re looking for.

      • Yeah, but still $400 more if you take accessories into account ;-) EARLY ADOPTERS RULE!!!

        Kidding, kidding…

      • My understanding is the BT Scarlet packages from a week ago were $3000 cheaper than these “new” ones similarly configured. So not the best. deal. ever.

        Either way, you are still looking at memory at $9000 per terabyte. Commodity SSDs of the same speed are $800 per terabyte. I can’t get past that. That is outrageous. I would be banned from owning their products for “having a bad attitude.” What about their attitude?

        • What company with a proven camera system doesn’t charge a lot on media? Both Sony and Panasonic have pricing similar to Red’s. You can’t use BMCC as a standard.

        • Sony is currently $11,400 per terabyte for SR: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/831335-REG/Sony_SR_512S55_SR_512S55_SRMemory_Card_512GB.html

          Sony is $10,864 per terabyte for SxS: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/737232-REG/Sony_SBS_64G1A_SxS_1_G1A_64GB_Memory.html

          Panasonic is $10,960 per terabyte for P2: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/878244-REG/Panasonic_aj_p2e064fg_F_Series_P2_Card.html

          RED is $7,800 per terabyte (two 512GB modules at $3,900 each)

          So even if we want to complain that they are using regular SSDs and charging more, it’s not much different than what’s capable with any of the other camera systems. How about Canon? Yeah, CF cards and SD cards, but for what, 8-bit 50mbps 1080p? Unless you’re shooting documentaries, you’re not shooting more than a few hours per day anyway, and who is to say you can’t format on location if you’re handling offloading to multiple hard drives right on site. Just because you might need 5 hours of record time, does not mean everyone does. I could only see myself needing 1 terabyte if I was shooting 5K at 120fps, which no camera can currently do (besides RED).

          What about Canon’s RAW? Uncompressed 4K, which ends up being a far bigger deal on the post end unless you convert to another format like Cineform RAW. It’s just like Blackmagic Cinema Camera RAW data rates, except you’re dealing with 4K and not 2.5K.

          • Sony SRMemory has native RAID-5 RED DOES NOT.

            Besides, why you chose the fastest SRMemory ? 2,5 gigabits SRMemory from sony is 8000 dollars for terabyte :

            http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/831331-REG/Sony_SR_512S25_SR_512S25_SRMemory_Card_512GB.html

            And it is still faster than “normal” RED SSD:s.

          • Actually I forgot Sony developed the 1TB models. The 1 Terabyte 2.5 Gbps card can’t do higher frame rates, but it’s only $6,000. They don’t seem to list a price for the 1 Terabyte 5.5 Gbps card. So yes, Sony is cheaper there. But still, it takes a $20,000 recorder to do 4K, so it’s a $100,000 camera system or more.

            With RED you have the compression options, so you can actually record these higher frame rates on the 64GB to 512GB cards.

            Sony could very well produce the new 512GB AXSM for pretty cheap and the 4K recorder for $5K and they could be cheaper than what RED is doing. All I’m trying to say is the situation isn’t that much different anywhere else. RED is charging a premium, no question, but then so is everyone else.

          • Lol. Joe is slowly turning to the dark side.

  • RED leads the second wave of pro camera price/features revolution!:D Now everybody has to drop prices again! Kudos to RED!:) Still want a BMCC though..for the color science…and internal Proress. F5 for slo mo though..most likely it will be below 10K.

  • RED would “make an obscene profit” if it could. (Quote from Jim Jannard at http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87757-Everything-changes-IMPORTANT-post&p=1083486&viewfull=1#post1083486)

    RED could not sell the EPIC at the previous price of $34,500 (EPIC-X) or $39,500 (EPIC-M). Lowering the price of the EPIC models by 45% and 39% (respectively) is a sign that the company is in trouble.

    RED is being squeezed from below (Blackmagic), above (Sony), and sideways (Canon). RED is a private company, so no outsider knows how much money they are making (or losing).

    Why not lower the price of the accessories as well as the “brains”? Maybe RED makes a great deal of profit on accessories?

    The mandatory REDMAG drives are sold at a price approximately six times higher than retail 1.8-inch SSD drives of the same capacity and sufficient write speed (for example, the Kingston SVP180S2 series). How much of that is profit? 83%? Remember that RED does not buy the drives at retail. Just because Sony also requires expensive proprietary storage (SxS cards) does not make it reasonable or right.

    • What makes you think computer SSDs and camera media are directly comparable when every major company has pricing like Red’s?

      • Little camera companies don’t have the hops to innovate on mass storage vs. the broad market. They are just trying to hide profits from the foolish first-time buyer. “Wow 5K for under $20K!!!!”

        • Have you ever seen a Red SSD in real life? It’s clearly not the same thing as a computer SSD. The build quality alone warrants the price, a computer SSD would be in pieces if it received a fraction the beating a Red SSD can take.

          • Actually it is. Internally it’s totally standard off-the-shelf Toshiba SSD modules – *with some very special firmware* to allow absolutely rock-solid write performance however long the take.

          • This is a great misconception about SSDs. An SSD has no moving parts – they don’t generate heat, and they are extremely hard to damaged (unless you throw one against a wall as hard as you can). They also have around 1,500,000 – 2,000,000 hours of operation time. RED propriety media, as well as Sony’s, Canon’s and Panasonic, are all rip-offs. They are nothing but re-housed SSD drivers. The reason RED can drop the price so sharply on their cameras is because they make it back on accessories.

          • @Mike, I wasn’t talking about the inside though.

      • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 3:52AM

        What about AJA ki pro mini that has new firmware that supports red 2k and 4k to pro res, is it possible even though the AJA has 10bit versus red 12 bit, how would that work set up wise as capturing media for quicker post as opposed to ssd cards from red.

    • They sold quite a few EPICs at that price. At this price? I know plenty of small prodcos that will now buy one.

    • The RED business model has always been about hiding the cost. They hide the real price of camera system in accessories, especially in SSDs and similar things.

  • So should I get the RED ONE M-X now? Anyone??

  • I wonder if history will repeat on November 2013 or 2014 and we will see Epic X for $4-6k? I’m going to wait till then ;-)

  • Thank God I’m a soundie. After 15 years my Sennheiser MKH60,Schoeps 41 and SD mixer still function with flawless precision. It helps that we sound people have been recording uncompressed for decades now. I just hope my next DP won’t be a 12 year old skateboard kid with a 8k GoPro and a mil+ hits on Youtube who wants to lecture me about LUTs, color space,and the difference between compression schemes, let alone his/her ideas about sound. Well, at least you guys can still take 3 hours to set the shot and then put a 4×4 flag where we need to boom from … enjoy the future people…just my guess but i think it ain’t pretty

    • ah, the late 90s didn’t happen then? this exact thing happened in digital audio, just happened a lot earlier because the processing power needed was so much less.
      I would compare the mic situation to lenses. An Ultra Prime circa 1999 is still useful today.

      And I notice that decent mics are getting cheaper lately.

      • Do some good research before as from every good resouce I have found be prepared to add at least 6k just for the camera. Now you will also have to add a good 4k for a tripod that will hold its weight. It is still a fantastic offer but the 4k body is only the tip of the iceberg.

  • Here’s the math on a working Epic X minimum. One hour shoot. One hour footage.
    EPIC X Brain / Mount / Side SSD $22500 [$19000 brain only, where do you put the lens]
    Side Handle $950 [for power and control]
    LCD $1600 [maybe you could save here with a SmallHD or Zacuto]
    2x64GB SSD $1450
    REDMAG $250 [to read SSD]
    RED VOLTS [2] $390 [realistically you need a lot more at 30 mins each]
    Charger $150
    Total $27 290 plus tax [$2183]

    Given the power and storage required for even the most basic shoot, the above package is unrealistic.
    Let’s not get crazy with the $19 000 number it doesn’t really mean anything unless you are bought into the RED ecosystem.

    Bottom line. $29 473

    • A) I really hope you’re not a production accountant, and B) that’s down from about $45k that I’ve seen on many a quoted system.

    • …And if you need the Prores-module add 13000 dollars (!!!!).

      Also, if do any more work with RED raw, you need that Red Rocket card. I think it is 6000,- dollars.

      • There is no ProRes module. There is a module that happens to have ProRes recording as an option among a gazillion other advanced features.

      • A lot of people shoot and edit RED without a rocket these days.

    • Don’t use REDVOLTs if you want to lower the price. Get an Al Canon mount if you want to lower the price further. If the price is still too high, get the Scarlet. If that’s too high, get the One for $4k!!! If that’s still too high, rent…

  • This is truly amazing, can’t wait to see price adjustments across the board.

    Battle tested Red One MX, amazing deal. May have to bite.

    • I’m just worried about the cost of buying into the RED system. The SSD’s are crazy expensive…not to mention the other stuff to make it a full package.

      Argh, $4k for 4k is hard to dismiss.

      • The SSDs are really the only thing that you don’t have a cheap option for…everything else should be relatively easy to get a basic workable solution for cheap and third party. Just remember it’s a big heavy camera, so you might need a beefier tripod. If money’s an issue, make sure you’re just looking at used stuff…there’s a lot out there.

        • Argh. So tempting…heck, I could probably get away with renting this locally for maybe $300/day. That’d be a nice way to offset some of the cost.

          • I think the only thing bad about it is how quickly they’ll sell out…

        • For the Red One you have multiple cheaper options… CF cards are cheap. Red Drives are dirt cheap for the amount of storage. And with more cameras out there, the incentive will be there for some enterprising manufacturer to offer cheaper Red-compatible SSD storage, or other storage options for Epic/Scarlet.

      • I think you mean 4k for $4k. :)

  • Well I can finally say that I CAN own an RED Camera now, Indie film makers rejoice!

  • So happy to say I finally own a RED!!!

  • I learned so much from this thread about commenters. They only hate what they can’t afford until they can, then they love it. How many people have cursed Reds name but have been indoctrinated tonight.

  • Hmmm…now I’m reconsidering. This might not be so special after all, at least on the RED One deal.

    Within a year, all of the major manufacturers will probably be pushing 4K. And you’ll be able to shoot it without the headaches or hassles of a heavy, quirky 5 year old body design with costly accessories and storage media.

    • Agreed. However, as you’ll see from Sony’s move, it’s not going to be at this price. Buying an MX only makes sense if you can write it off within 12-24 months. By that time (late 2014) there will be serious alternatives at the 5-7k mark.
      If you’re making projects RIGHT NOW and already own most of the other pieces then its a slam dunk. If you’re wanting to be a jobbing cam op, then you’ll need to get a more flexible solution. An MX is a 70′s muscle car – very powerful in a straight line. That’s a great thing, but not always the most useful, or easy to live with.

    • None of the alternatives will give you the ability to shoot *raw* at any relatively affordable price point. That’s Red’s great strength; the ability to shoot raw. Coming from a still background it’s a total no-brainer for me to shoot movies raw – like, IS there any other way?!

  • Seriously considering a Red One and pairing it with my 5D3 for projects where I don’t feel like hassling with the big kit. Can anyone who’s used it in small production environments of less than 5 people tell me what their experience is like?

    Is the weight that cumbersome? How does the low-light compare to a last generation DSLR like a 7D?

    • It’s not too cumbersome once you get used to it…like an ENG camera, it’s possible to run by yourself despite its size and weight. But you will need to get used to it…also it starts up in a minute and a half, so plan for that. Get the Black and Blue’s camera guide for it, the menus are kinda confusing at first (the Epic/Scarlet menus are a huge improvement). But it’s a very capable camera, and it’s not rocket science to use it once you know how it all works and you use it for a bit.

      Low light with the MX sensor’s as good as first gen DSLR’s like 5d Mk II and 7d for sure.

      • Agreed. It’s perfectly totable single handed. I’ve shot with the R1 solo on top of a 10,000ft volcano. OK damned near killed me lol but it’s possible!

        Biggest thing for a Red newbie: read, re-read, and inwardly digest everything on how to expose it properly. Grok the histogram, goalposts and traffic lights in fullness, and you’re golden.

      • Thanks man, appreciate the help. If I could ask one more thing, would my Zacuto EVF suffice or do I need to get a monitoring solution that uses SDI?

  • whatever happened to that Canon C something??? ha.

    • The C300 still has a market: documentary. It’s insane low light capabilities compared to the EPIC’s makes it a good contender. However, they are still going to have to lower prices at this point.

  • Jay slocum on 11.2.12 @ 3:35AM

    Can anyone , any RED owners give advice on what would be a cost effective but low cost set on shooting with the RED ONE MX. You know what do we really need to start doing small shooting (power, screen, media) etc.

    about how much extra will it cost today to realistically start shooting with the RED ONE, because all of the older info is outdated

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