October 22, 2013

New Apple Mac Pro Will Start at $3,000, Shipping in December

New Mac Pro - Top - at WWDC 2013

While we got a quick surprise look at the Mac Pro back in June at the WWDC, Apple today unveiled the rest of the details on the Mac Pro, including the detail many have been waiting for: the price. Click through for the rest on the new device, and what you're going to be getting for $3,000.

Here is everything you'll get starting at $3,000:

They also showed this video of the creation process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOtrSbvQS8

Obviously this isn't a weak system, and it better not be for the money that you're putting into it. Apple has designed a system that would be difficult, if not downright impossible to put together yourself for this price. This has been one of the advantages of the Mac Pro when they are on the cutting edge: you're getting very high performance for the amount of money you pay. Whether it will stay competitive months from now is a whole other conversation, but we will see just how fast it is when it's released in December.

Check out more specs from the Apple announcement:

Apparently, the new design means a lot not only for power consumption, but for the amount of noise the device produces while idle:

They aren't showing how loud the device is while you're running three 4K monitors for hours on end and editing multiple 4K projects, but I have to believe that the way the middle of the computer acts as a heatsink allows for much cooler insides and thus less noise from fans.

What do you guys think? Is this worth the price for the performance inside?

Link: Mac Pro -- Apple Store

Your Comment

158 Comments

what out FCPX will we get an update now that this beast is lose

October 22, 2013 at 2:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Apparently so...

October 22, 2013 at 2:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Bob

I agree, FCPX is nice as an editor, but mastering audio, working with special effects and color grading shots are tedious. The interface alone can become very meticulous at times. It's so good and so horrible at the same time.

October 22, 2013 at 2:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Sean

A new version of FCPX will be out in November http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/performance/

October 23, 2013 at 3:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Austin Mace

No FireWire?

October 22, 2013 at 2:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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firewire so yesterday.

October 22, 2013 at 2:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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But always useful...

October 22, 2013 at 2:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DvcPro is still widely used, and it often comes on firewire devices.

October 22, 2013 at 2:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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They make a Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter. Still have it covered.

October 22, 2013 at 3:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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only an easy payment of $80

October 22, 2013 at 6:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

October 23, 2013 at 3:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Austin Mace

That's what adapter cables are for. Just like when the MacBook Pros jumped from 6-pin to 9-pin Firewire.

October 22, 2013 at 2:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Rob

With the speeds of Thunderbolt 2 and USB 3.0 FireWire is a little sluggish. So its understandable that Apple wouldn't use it when trying to create the latest and greatest.

October 22, 2013 at 2:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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tregellex

Got thunderbolt adapters for that.

October 22, 2013 at 2:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Roger

lol, you should do stand-up.

October 22, 2013 at 3:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gerald

They make a Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter.

October 22, 2013 at 3:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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October 25, 2013 at 3:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

THe 2013 iMacs have no firewire, therefore no more firewire. Probably across the board. Sadly enough.

October 23, 2013 at 9:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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seth.iamfilms

I think the true death of FireWire came with the Retina MacBook Pros. FireWire was too large of a connector for them to fit on the side of that super-thin computer, so they axed it in favour of something newer and smaller, making an adapter available for backwards-compatibility.

October 25, 2013 at 12:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I'm more worried about having no PCIE 3 slots. Am I missing something because that seems like a deal killer? Does Thunderbolt 2 fix the bandwidth problems of thunderbolt 1?

You can't plug in a video card. You just take what Apple gives you. It's like a giant iPhone.

October 23, 2013 at 2:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Josh

how well will this do with 4k workflow?

October 22, 2013 at 2:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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fernando

Depends on the specific workflow. If, for example, you are color correcting 4K video with DaVinci Resolve, the BM Configuration Guide says 3GB GPU RAM is a minimum. I see a lot of people in the BM forum opting for 6GB Titans in Resolve.

October 22, 2013 at 5:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

The downside to using a 6GB Titan card for DaVinci Resolve is the GeForce drivers are 8-bit color output to the GUI monitor.

October 23, 2013 at 9:04AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

Is $3 over priced? What would a comparable PC set up cost?

October 22, 2013 at 2:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Sam Biel

A quad core Xeon based system for $3000? Heh.

October 22, 2013 at 8:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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wgtwo

My guess: about $1500.
That is, for the basic configuration of this new apple "tower", the one they will sell for $3K.
Because I doubt the $3K version is the one that comes with two firepro W9000 cards (the ones that would add up to 4096 stream processors in total), since each one retails for >$3K.
Very deceiving presentation.

October 23, 2013 at 3:30AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Actually, details are out:
http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-pro

And yes, I could build a $1200 PC with the same performance of this $3000 tower.
Just switch the low-end dual FirePro for a high-end GeForce and you're done.

(it seems what Apple got is a very sweet deal from AMD for its professional video cards: they are the same hardware as the gaming ones but with different drivers and firmware, and AMD is charging Apple a pro fee that is an order of magnitude lower than what they would charge you)

October 23, 2013 at 5:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Which is probably no wonder, since AMD does evidently not include the Windows drivers that make all of the difference between Radeon and FirePro. The name is merely a marketing trick, since the drivers will assumedly be made by Apple.

October 23, 2013 at 3:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

I doubt Apple will make the drivers. They may tune them, but that's also unlikely if you ask me. You have to have a very deep knowledge about the chip in order to write drivers, and AMD is not going to give those details to anybody, including Apple.
But still, the fact that the card can't be extracted and the windows drivers are not included is indeed a reason to sell these at a discount to Apple: it creates an incentive for software designers to use the firepro capabilities, but it doesn't undermine the rest of AMD's business elsewhere, at all.

October 24, 2013 at 4:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Well, the comparison would be difficult. Setting aside that the machine would have to be larger, warmer, an make more noise there's the key issue of actually buying SSD units that perform those kinds of read and write speeds. I'm not even sure if you can (yet) but if you did, you would definitely be talking "enterprise hardware" dollars not "off the shelf at Fry's" dollars.

Could you do it, probably...could you do it in a small easy to use form factor for under $3000? Honestly I don't think so. Now if all you want to do is make a PC with similar CPU, storage capacity, and memory capacity, sure you could do that cheaper (but don't expect equivalent performance, even as a hackintosh).

October 23, 2013 at 4:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

Thanks dude. Well I basically threw this together in a few minutes. I'm not sure about the processor so I basically just estimated the E5-1620 (3.6Gghz, 10mb cache) and that sells for $500 a piece. Because I had no option I went for a $1000 i7 that could be clocked. Strange that they are using a server CPU, but I guess it acts as a gimmick for speed. Not only do I have a $1000 cpu, I also have 4TB of HDD space and 32GB of RAM. Because they stressed their cooling, I grabbed a $100 closed system water cooler.

So, what's the verdict? I have 20GB more RAM, 4TB more storage from their advertised specs and I'm even spending double the amount of money on what could be a weaker CPU. You can not argue that a custom built windows PC is cheaper by a mile than Apples new "tube."

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1SstJ

October 23, 2013 at 9:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

Actually, my CPU is better, and I'm still under price: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-1620+%40+3.60GHz

October 23, 2013 at 9:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

Well server class CPU means it has more options for ram. Such as ECC ram.
AFAIK i5 and i7 do not support ECC ram.
You are speccing DDR1866 right?
Also the i7 has more cache than an i5. Xeons have more cache than their i series counterpart. Cache is good.
Also it will cost you about $800 to pick up comparable PCIE based flash storage.
and does your PC box have TB2 or HDMI?

October 24, 2013 at 6:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Russ D

You kind of lost all reasonable comparison when you said "HDD," dude. If you think server class CPUs are a gimmick, my guess you also haven't done much enterprise work and may not be aware of the remarkably different ways in which RAM can be accessed on different classes of hardware.

October 25, 2013 at 12:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

Pity no update for FCPX was announced :/ Any ideas when this will be announced?

October 22, 2013 at 2:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Malcolm

Apple's site says December.

October 22, 2013 at 2:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Aaron

"Apple has designed a system that would be difficult, if not downright impossible to put together yourself for this price." I'm not sure this is true. It might be, but certainly if one doesn't want the circular case and goes for a more-established cooling system that would likely offset a decent chunk of the cost.

Curious how PCIe slots work here. There's certainly no room for a nvidia card in there (as an example of a large PCIe card), but they've got 40 lanes set aside for it so they're working with it. I'd be curious to see how much space is alotted inside.

October 22, 2013 at 2:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Colin

Do those SSD units even exist on the open market yet? If so, are they priced for consumer purchase, or just for inclusion is very high end server hardware?

October 23, 2013 at 4:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

HAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This system is a joke, not only does it actually look ugly in the video, while it may be fast I would rather have the ability to control the system I do my work on than have Mac take away all of my control. I want a system I can upgrade easily and not have to buy a new one.

HP Workstations are the best thing out, same price and likely same performance.

October 22, 2013 at 2:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

Yeah, well your using cruddy Windows with that HP workstation.

October 22, 2013 at 3:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Angus

Actually, I dual boot OSX on it. Not that I use it, because why use something you can use on windows when it's simply more stable on a windows environment on a computer built for windows?

October 22, 2013 at 4:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

Windows works fine.

October 22, 2013 at 4:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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moebius22

Re: Angus - There’s a reason why Macs never compete with a Windows PC in performance benchmarking.

October 22, 2013 at 6:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

I think what I dislike the most about Apple announcements is that all the petty haters come out the woodwork. Don't like it? Don't use it. It's that simple. And for those of us that do, why rain on our parade? It's primitive tribalism and factionalism. Doesn't make you a better person or filmmaker, just somebody with different tastes. And that's cool. So be cool.

October 22, 2013 at 4:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gerald

Could not have said it better

October 22, 2013 at 5:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Nigel Thompson

I HATE people with different tastes. :)

October 22, 2013 at 6:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

If you dislike apple haters..then don't you respond to them. It's that simple

October 22, 2013 at 6:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jesuan

I agree. Let's let the cavemen be cavemen ;)

October 22, 2013 at 7:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Migs

You assume that all (or most) of the "haters" are well-adjusted adults.

That is a mistake.

October 22, 2013 at 9:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Dan

And you assume that most of the Apple fanboys are adults....

October 23, 2013 at 6:06AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jesuan

Check the 'what's in the box' bit - No keyboard & mouse! - at these prices, they have to be joking! LAME :P

October 22, 2013 at 2:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Most people who buy these will be building them into purpose-designed workstations with lots of specialized peripherals, including keyboards and pointing devices (and shuttles and digitizers and scanners and who knows what else) so putting a couple items in the box that most people will replace might be kind of silly.

It's a personal preference thing. I'm admittedly the kind of person who went "thank goodness" when videogame consoles stopped forcing you to buy two controllers with them.

October 25, 2013 at 12:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

“Apple has designed a system that would be difficult, if not downright impossible to put together yourself for this price.”

Please do your research before making a statement like that. For 3k you could build a pc box that would destroy this performance wise. This has always been the case, apple users pay at least 25-30% more for ease of use/lack of control + pleasing aesthetic. Which is fair enough, not everyone has the time, knowledge or inclination to put together or arrange the build of a pc.

October 22, 2013 at 3:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Alan

@Alan,

If you want to make a point and demonstrate that YOU've done research, you should show, not just tell.

October 22, 2013 at 3:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mike

Why would I spend half an hour putting together a system to prove a point that is as well known as the sky being blue?

October 22, 2013 at 4:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Alan

Whether you can get better performance or not elsewhere is not really up for debate, obviously you can, I'm simply saying that the base computer, if you got the same parts, would be more expensive on your own. The processor and GPUs together would already be well over $2,000.

October 22, 2013 at 3:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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avatar
Joe Marine
Camera Department

And try building your own rig that's comparably energy-efficient. Might not matter that much for a single machine, but for a business, energy consumption costs adds up.

October 22, 2013 at 4:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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mike

A powerhouse can't be energy efficient. They showed idle power usage, but I'm not using my computer when it's idle which means it's in sleep or hibernate. 0 watts being used AND it's a windows PC! Revolutionary.

October 22, 2013 at 4:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

What about the likely cheap, mass produced motherboard and other components? That had to skim on something in order to get the price as low as you say.

October 22, 2013 at 4:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

Actually I just tried to price out the system but I can't. The give me a price of $3000, but tell me figures like 'up to 12gb or graphics meat' How am I supposed to price that? Clearly their marketing team has done a fantastic job of making everyone think the computer is amazing at such a low price and it's unbeatable. lol.

October 22, 2013 at 4:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

More details here, have a go at it
http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-pro

Looking at those specs, I think I can build a $1200 PC with the same performance.

October 23, 2013 at 5:51AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Well, no, due to the Xeon and the ECC DRAMs. And there would only be one Thunderbolt 2 port, since that is all that you can buy in a generic mainboard (e.g. from Asus). Still , I must admit that I find the price somewhat surprising.

October 23, 2013 at 4:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

Xeon and core are exactly the same, the only difference is that some xeons can be used in dual or quad boards, but if you're not going to do that (as in the $3K MP) it makes no sense go buy a xeon.
And you don't need so many external ports when you have an actual tower. You know, with room inside and all that.

October 24, 2013 at 5:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Of course if you need ECC that's different. But 99% of the people who will buy this thing don't need ECC.

October 24, 2013 at 5:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hey Tyler get out of your mom's basement and stop trolling. You have like 10 negative comments on this page, seriously tho if you are happy with your PC why do you even give a shit?

October 24, 2013 at 11:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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matt

No. Since no one would (or at least should) buy FirePro GPUs for a MacOSX system. The Windows drivers are of no use for a Hackintosh. So, instead of FirePros, you would probably buy two normal Pitcairn XT based Radeons and get the same performance under MacOSX, as with the "D300". Which will be around 400 USD.

October 23, 2013 at 4:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

@Alan, if you would of done the research how much the parts do cost separately on the Mac Pro you would understand the point Joe is making. Also, consider the time assembling a comparable machine because time is money.

October 22, 2013 at 6:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Rich

Question about the lack of DVD burners in these new systems.... Aren't festivals/distributors still requesting screener copies? External burners aren't as seamless.

Between that and the no hard drives stuff....

October 22, 2013 at 3:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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b.

In our day and age, to use that much space inside the shell for a dying format would be a waste. I still burn the OCCASIONAL disc myself, but I would much rather pay $80 for an external Apple Superdrive that I can plug in once or twice a year than I would request them to build one in.

October 22, 2013 at 3:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jordan

What are people doing that are currently shopping films?

Someone clue me in. Online screeners?

There's nothing worse than traveling, and needing to get a copy of a fresh cut to someone the next day, without that burner. I already travel with a pound of bubble wrap and multiple external drives.

October 22, 2013 at 3:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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b.

Mostly Withoutabox through IMDB or Vimeo with a password. Festivals have moved away from DVD's for obvious reasons, prone to not working, programmers can watch on their own time without having to pick up from a festival HQ, submission seamless and all online.

October 23, 2013 at 7:55AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Dan

I'm still getting requests for screeners. What major fests have done away with them?

October 23, 2013 at 3:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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b.

External drives are extremely cheap, and since the vast majority of users don't want or need optical now it's folly to engineer room for one into the main system chassis. Most folks would get better service out of an external that they can also use with their notebooks, etc.

October 25, 2013 at 12:43AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

i have had a number of macs now and I can't think of a single one I have had for more than 2 years that hasn't had the DVD drive die. Apple make great computers, excellent software and really crappy dvd drives. Thats why i see it as a bonus that the dvd drive can be made by anyone.

October 23, 2013 at 9:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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brenton

I can't wait to see real world tests (especially 4K workflow) on this machine! The banks been identified and I've got the sawn off and mask ready to go if it doesn't disappoint!

October 22, 2013 at 3:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tris

To effectively handle and navigate 4K footage the price of this unit will triple. Between monitors, a HDD array and video cards plus other things like a BBU, SDI card etc you're looking at well over $10,000. That's about 4 to 5 grand more than a similar spec Pc. No doubt it'll be a beast but for how long? High end guys I'm sure will jump on it (I would) but in today's market it's silly to put all your eggs in this basket. A proper built Pc has come a long way and ill admit a Pc can't touch apple for personal computing devices but believe that's what they're best at these days. Save your money, buy lenses....Happy computing :).

October 22, 2013 at 3:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anthony Marino

Everyone is making their assumptions from the highest hardware to be purchased but the lowest priced version. Also, I love the dual graphics card thing. It's not like you can do that with PCs or anything for cheaper.

October 22, 2013 at 4:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

You can run dual GPUs or even 3-4 on PC for as low as 500-600 bucks. It's nothing special.
What really bugs me with this machine isn't that it's not powerful, it's that it's non upgradable. There's nothing pro about it. You can't change the processor or the graphics cards inside since it was designed to be so small.
Just another choice by apple to make the consumer pay more and more.

October 22, 2013 at 4:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hubert

Bingo!

October 22, 2013 at 5:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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moebius22

What exactly do you need to upgrade? A system like that? To upgrade a processor means you need to upgrade the motherboard. To upgrade the motherboard and you have to upgrade everything.

Graphics card is a beast! What exactly do you want to upgrade?

Ram is upgradable which is right because that's pretty much the only thing worth upgrading.

October 22, 2013 at 6:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Will

You need a ton of HDD space. For pro use you need an enterprise raid set up at least 8TB worth, that's $3,000 for a smaller set up. Plus monitor $1000.00 (talking about editing 4k not 1080p) what if you need to export it? That's another $1000 with nothing else you're talking an extra $5,000 now we're up to $8,000. For what it's worth I can have all that with the latest MB and processor for $5,000 in a Pc. My point was at what cost do we need to incur to be able to handle 4K, since systems change every 6 months...why spend that kind of money on something that will obsolete in a year 1/2? Hey if you got it like that God bless you, but if not there's no real rhyme or reason you need it. Any Pc (properly built) will be just as effective if not more so than the new Mac pro, especially for the money.

October 22, 2013 at 6:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anthony Marino

LMAO, what kind of motherboard are you looking at that needs everything else replaced? I must have missed that memo the last couple times I upgraded my motherboard...

October 22, 2013 at 9:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gabe

I just tried to do the math on this and I couldn't even find a motherboard that can run the latest Intel Core i7-990X Extreme Edition 3.47Ghz 6-Core Processor. I think all these people talking about building a comparable PC for cheaper are talking out of their asses. Dual 6 core motherboards are not even out yet for the Haswell Xeon.

October 22, 2013 at 11:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Harry Pray IV

Of course you can't. The 990X is a two-and-a-half-years-old CPU. Now, look for the very much faster i7-4930K or 4960X. Or just the $300 i7-4770, since it's actually faster than the 990X at most tasks, and just a tad slower in the worst cases.

October 23, 2013 at 5:58AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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That is not comparable. You would have to compare with a Xeon processor, since only those allow for error corrected RAM (ECC). And the Mac Pro does only have one socket. The base processor is the E5-1620 v2 (about USD300). Look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Ivy_Bridge#Server_processors

October 23, 2013 at 4:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

Hahahah what I like most is the fact you have to buy additional keyboard and mouse...ahahahhaahhaha

October 22, 2013 at 4:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jesuan

Who doesn't already have a keyboard, and frankly, who uses mice anyway? Anybody who is buying this machine will already have that stuff as this is not for beginners. If you are outfitting a post house that might be something different but I doubt it. I for one am glad there is no keyboard or mouse (trackpad all the way) because I don't want to pay even more for something I don't need.

October 22, 2013 at 5:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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so why do iMacs com with a keyboard?? ahahha c'mon man you are cool but everybody needs a keyboard....and it should come with the computer, and most with that price....

October 22, 2013 at 5:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jesuan

I have one thing to say DDR4 in 2014....

October 22, 2013 at 7:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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batou

2800 with a student discount, just lie and show them your old student ID. A 4k monitor is 700 on amazon, and a keyboard and mouse is around 100.

Not bad

October 22, 2013 at 5:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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john jeffries

is the $700.00 4K monitor you're talking about the 39" Seiki 4K tv?

October 22, 2013 at 8:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Yeah. Its not for color critical stuff obviously but for general use and for editing its not bad.

October 22, 2013 at 10:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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john jeffries

I am sure it's better than the critics have been talking about it. A company from China has a 39" for $699.00 too.They're coming to America some time this fall. HiSense has 4K tvs with Android/Smart in them. Like having a giant tablet. HiSense 4K is supposed to be available in WalMart before the end of the year.

October 23, 2013 at 12:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

oh, that company from China, Skyworth

October 23, 2013 at 1:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Video of HiSense tvs at CES 2013. There's a 110", comes with Android, web cam, motion detection, voice detection. A man (in another video) said the 110" may be sold for $15,000.00 in the US.

[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whE6st00-S0 ]

October 23, 2013 at 1:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

I definetively will not buy this machine from Apple and turn for something that is more "pro" like the Z820 from HP.

October 22, 2013 at 5:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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King of Punk

I'll second that!

October 22, 2013 at 5:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Yep. We have a few of those. They kick ass.

October 22, 2013 at 8:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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marklondon

A lot of what I'm reading in the comments here make no sense ..... The machine is a professional machine weather you guys like it or not ...... It's a step forward .... A big one like what apple is known for ..... No PCIe slots .... That's what 6 TB ports are for. The are Tb connectable enclosures ... Use them.

You are editing video? Ok so there are TB connectable video devices from BMD & AJA, buy them. I for one prefer the stability of OS X, so I use it ...... If you like windows ... Use it.

There is not TRULY PRO machine ..... Get your head out of 1982. Pro to me in 2013 depends on specs and stability, which in today's world we can actually find on both platforms .....

Look forward not back

October 22, 2013 at 5:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Nigel Thompson

"The machine is a professional machine weather you guys like it or not"
"There is not TRULY PRO machine"

[insert any generic offensive mac fanboy comment here]

October 22, 2013 at 6:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

Just because you say it's a PRO machine doesn't mean it is. I don't call being locked into never upgrading the processor or the graphics card... PRO. I mean seriously this machine can already be beaten by a PC of the same or lesser price. There's a reason why Macs never compete with a PC in performance benchmarking. You won't have to wait 6 months for it to be outdated; it already is! PRO for you, but not PRO for me.

October 22, 2013 at 6:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

And it's not just upgrading; things break. I've gone through 2 or 3 graphics cards on my 2008 Mac Pro, and each time it's taken me about a minute to fix. Will it be that simple with this? Will I be able to plug and play memory?

I had a machine die a few weeks back; I took the drives, memory, and graphics card, put them in the other Mac Pro shell we hadn't been using, bam, same computer as I had before. Took maybe 5 minutes. Is that even possible with this new one? Cause if it's not, I spend days trying to replace it, and that means I'm not getting work done. Which is not a Pro workflow...

October 22, 2013 at 6:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chris

oh but it's so nice and shinny....ahhaha anyway .... I think that Ram and hard drives is the only thing you are accessible....at least for what I see from the pictures where they say "user accesible" :)

October 22, 2013 at 6:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jesuan

oh and you can access to your favourite keyboard and mouse too!!! ahahahahha

October 22, 2013 at 6:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jesuan

Which is sad, because I dont really care about form factor. I actually liked the old Mac Pro form, and it made modularity easy. Either way the thing is sitting in a corner under my desk, so, size, weight, etc are irrelevant.

The design is really cool, the fan concept is awesome; just make the panels removable so I can replace components. I don't even care if they are expensive; it's cheaper to put in a $400 graphics card than buy a new $3k computer. Or wait a few days for it to get fixed (which costs me company hundreds of dollars in my time)

October 22, 2013 at 8:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chris

I've got a ton invested in eSATA enclosurers. I know Thunderbolt is faster and will ultimately graduate to them but in the mean time I'd like to just plug in my ?older? enclosures. How do you get to devices that require port multiplier cards? Is it just toss em?

October 22, 2013 at 6:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Well don't worry...the solution that any macfanboy will tell you is that you are so three months ago.....

October 22, 2013 at 6:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jesuan

You probably know about the Thunderbolt-eSATA bridge that LaCie sell, but I don't think it supports port multiplier devices. eSATA support has always been strictly third-party on the Mac, so I'm not surprised to see it tricky on a new Mac. I have eSATA on my Mac Pro, and it's been great, but I only use it with a dock so I'll just switch to my USB3 dock instead.

October 22, 2013 at 8:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I'm getting it. The only reason that I wouldn't get a windows setup is not that I think macs are better, but I just don't feel like learning the windows platform. I actually would love the ability to upgrade single parts of my computer but I just don't feel like learning the windows platform.

October 22, 2013 at 6:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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My reason is Final Cut. I can't bring myself to take a chunk of my time to learn Premiere.

October 22, 2013 at 9:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Premiere is basically fcp 7. What's there to learn? I went from fcp 7 to premiere (required by a job change) and didn't miss a beat. I have yet to do a project in fcp x but am looking forward to seeing why people love/hate it.

On the topic of the Mac Pro. It's a tool. Use it if it fits your need/workflow or don't if it doesn't. Personally I prefer the Mac OS but work in a PC environment. The OSes are becoming more similar than different.

October 22, 2013 at 10:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Steve

I'll wait to see some benchmark performance comparisons with Adobe CC, then I'll make a purchase.

In my opinion, this seems completely in line with Apple's philosophy of making products you're not supposed to touch except to use - not hack, mod, improve or otherwise crack the case. Disposable products - it's the Apple way. If this is of interest and use to you, great. If not, great. At least we still have options.

And both platforms run Adobe CC. Good for us!

October 22, 2013 at 7:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Can someone tell me the difference between regular chewing gum and the absurdity that is professional chewing gum that is available to buy, tried em both no difference, but mentioned here because that is what all these comments remind me off :-)

October 22, 2013 at 7:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Rosebud

:)

October 23, 2013 at 6:02AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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The professional chewing gun is in 4K.

October 23, 2013 at 3:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Thunderbolt 2 is forward-thinking, but why HDMI 1.4? It should be HDMI 2.0 so it can support 4k at 60fps.

October 22, 2013 at 9:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mel Feliciano

99.9% of people don't need to playback 4k 60fps+. You usually interpret as 24/25 for slow motion. Though Intel intends for Thunderbolt to be a ubiquitous port, so perhaps TB 2.0 will open more options in the future.

October 23, 2013 at 6:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Steve Lee

It's 3k because it is assembled in the US.... anyone thought of that?

October 22, 2013 at 11:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I'll buy one. This is perfect for me. I've already got 20TB of external TB storage. Yeah I could build a faster windows machine but why? So I could save $7-800 and not have a warranty and no support? That amount of money is insignificant when your clients project is depending on it. As a freelancer, a product that works reliably out of the box with a warranty and support is incredibly important.

October 23, 2013 at 1:24AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Andrew

some of the dumbest comments here. how many actually using their machines for paid work? whilst I don't dabble in high effect work I'm color correcting and kicking out broadcast material from FCPX on a Mac Pro 1.1 from 2007.

October 23, 2013 at 1:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jess

Can you handle 4K in it? Sounds like using it is a wonderful way to save money.

October 23, 2013 at 1:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

I used to have one myself, all the way up until a couple months ago. They are amazing machines. The real limitations on the Mac Pro 1,1 at this point are the GPU options out there for it, and the fact that it's limited to running older OS X due to having a 32-bit EFI. Of course there are ways around that, and ways of getting newer CPUs into one and unsupported video...but at that point you could be introducing some instability into a system that you most likely require for production readiness.

October 25, 2013 at 12:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

Just an honest enquiry – are there any off the shelf PC workstations (HP or Dell or whatever) that will run OSX out of the box? Curious about the Hackintosh route but honestly cannot be bothered building my own (warranty less) machines again.

October 23, 2013 at 4:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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If you like the MAC platform then this looks like a solid piece of gear for editing.

Still won't touch it as a grading station, not a fault with the new Mac Pro, just Apple's refusal to open up 10-bit video out, even with the new Maverick OS.

I'd be much more willing to give this a go if even the Mac Pro lines supported 10-bit video out. Professional colorists don't spend tens of thousands, some 100's of thousands) on a DI suite just so their 8-bit computer hamstrings the whole chain.

Apple makes solid products, but the omission of the new Mac Pro, without this is just confusing.

October 23, 2013 at 6:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Steve Lee

*omissions of 10-bit video from the Mac Pro, pardon the mistake.

October 23, 2013 at 6:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Steve Lee

While the general monitor support is 8-bit, pretty sure you can get 10-bit video out of a Mac if you have a Thunderbolt box for broadcast monitoring? Matrox and Blackmagic both seem to support it.

October 23, 2013 at 7:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Yes you can get 10bit capture and playback with say, a 4k ultrastudio from blackmagic. What I'm talking about is doing live grading and viewing your grade dynamically. THe problem is with the GUI, where where you're working with Resolve and no 10bit video support for the GUI is an inherent problem with the OS.

Grading from a playback device is not ideal for a time sensitive workflow. You're doing your correction in the GUI then seeing if the grade is acceptable when played back. You can grade this way, but IMO it's an excellent waste of time.

You do your grade in your GUI and have confidence that it'll be played back properly. For critical color correction you need to see your grade work dynamically so that when you play it back for your Cinematographer/Director/Produer or general client on a DCP projector or large format monitor, you'll be able to reproduce what you've done.

October 23, 2013 at 7:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Steve Lee

I like the idea of having a 10-bit component workflow to the GUI monitor because it allows for a 10-bit VFX/3D workflow to the monitor, 10-bit Photography workflow to the monitor, 10-bit Video Editing workflow to the monitor, 10-bit Color Correction and Grading workflow to the monitor, etc.

October 23, 2013 at 8:56AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

What exactly do you mean by dynamically. Are your changes in Davinci not updated in realtime to your monitor or projector? What speed are you grading at if you don't have time to look at your grading monitor? And final question if your guiscreen is perfectly calibrated why would you even need a evaluation monitor? Not beeing ironic but genuinly curios.

October 23, 2013 at 1:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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T

You are on track Steve. Without support for 10-bit per component color (30-bit output to the display) the Mac Pro is of no use to advanced colorists.

October 23, 2013 at 7:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

For 10-bit color output to the monitor you'll need to cover five component areas:

1. 10-bit capable monitor (Eizo ColorEdge, NEC PA, etc.)
2. Workstation graphic card and drivers (Nvidia Quadro card or AMD FirePro card) Note: Radeon and GeForce drivers are all 8-bit color.
3. Cable (DisplayPort)
4. 10-bit capable application (Photoshop CS4+, DaVinci Resolve, etc.)
5. 10-bit capable Operating System (WinXP, Vista, Win7, Win8)

October 23, 2013 at 8:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

Isn't it possible to just buy a hardware monitoring box from AJA/Matrox/Blackmagic for 10-bit support today? These specs list 30/36-bit output for HDMI: http://www.aja.com/en/products/io-xt/#techspecs

October 24, 2013 at 6:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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It works, but it's a more expensive solution ($1,500 box) because you still need a 10-bit monitor. If you are a Windows user and you have a 10-bit monitor, you only have two more components to get: a workstation card and a DisplayPort cable.

October 24, 2013 at 7:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

Of all the people who will buy this machine, I'd say it's the right machine for only a small percentage of them.

Working professionals will have a good idea of what they need and decide for themselves what to buy. I can see a lot of people buying this though that aren't. Some people are even talking about buying it mainly as a gaming machine!

Personally I'll be sticking with my self built workstation that has been handling 4K files just fine for some time now. (and purchased for a much better $ per performance).

And for anyone living in Australia, Apple's prices are now much higher than before (exchange rate has changed, but no where near as much as what Apple is now charging extra).

October 23, 2013 at 6:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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John

Agreed.

October 23, 2013 at 7:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

"Working professionals will have a good idea of what they need and decide for themselves what to buy."

Well said. It's kinda a guilty pleasure seeing the mud slung in the comments sometimes, but statements like these are very, very welcome. Thanks for being a mature voice here.

October 25, 2013 at 11:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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2014 Q1: Apple announces a rack mount option and a tower-retrofit kit.

October 23, 2013 at 10:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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The term "professional" in this business is a moving target. Here's a short list of things that were once considered not pro:

• Editing video on computers…period.
• Editing video on a standard computer with inexpensive software instead of an expensive turnkey Avid system
• Editing video on a notebook computer

There are many more examples. The lesson seems to be : Some of what seems like a novelty today will be your industry standard professional tool in the future.

I've worked at a number of post facilities and in several graphics departments and I've not known any of them to upgrade computers by swapping out CPUs and motherboards (obviously, those upgrades do happen but I doubt it's the norm). More RAM? Yes. A new GPU? Maybe. Different video capture cards? You bet. Otherwise, they use them until they no longer meet the demands of newer software and they get replaced entirely.

Of all the individuals and companies who make any amount of money using their PCs at any level professionally, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the ones who upgrade CPUs and motherboards instead of buying new are a small minority. In fact, they're an even smaller portion of the small minority of people who need workstation level horsepower and massive expansion options. It's just not something most professionals need or want to be bothered with. Apple is still in a lot of ways a boutique computer manufacturer and they're playing the numbers game. They'll hit the vast majority of their pro users' requirements with this machine. BMD says even Resolve runs extremely well on it. Those who need certain types of expansion also have options. For everyone else, there's Windows or Linux machines.

October 23, 2013 at 12:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Brian

Pro=professional=a person or company whose activities are geared towards generating a income and profit.
Amateur= someone that does it for love.
Any hardware that is making you money is professional people seem to have forgotten the mening of the word. A Lot of films are post produced in 2k because of cost. From the definition above it can actually be quite amaturish to do post in 4k. You do it for the love of quality. You have invested in 4k but customers Pay for 2k. So you are either an amateur or a fool. It is so obvious in theese diskussions which people are which. There is nothing Wrong beeing in any camp but amateur camp tends to have a squeved perfektion of what professional is. Stable gear is more worth than the fastest gear. Predictability is key and in that sense Apple does wonderful but expensive gear. However I feel that their marketing with the new Mac pro is very shady. They are talking about a twelve core maxed out version(for which they havent even released a price) Wanting us to think about that while they release the price of the 4 core and the 6 core with underwhelming graphics. We don't even know what the presented computer will cost. If you are doing video or grading a used Mac pro will serve you better. I still love Mac ( the computer not the company:) it just works it should be their slogan.

October 23, 2013 at 12:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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T

good points

October 24, 2013 at 11:17AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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andy

To the haters complaining about lack of internal storage- The computer is the size of a freaking milk jug, whereas the older model was as big as a mini fridge. To appease the haters that still want the machine I should start a side business putting new Mac Pro holders in old Mac Pro cases and run thunderbolt cables like eSATA cables to stacked and racked external hard drives and DVD/Blu Ray burners.

October 23, 2013 at 8:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Austin Mace

October 24, 2013 at 4:32AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Will be great to run my HD 1080p footage from my GH2. A winning combination.
Watch out RED!

October 23, 2013 at 8:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Norm Rasner

Just a question. Will NFS update the Hackintosh section to try and match/get close to the updated Mac Pro? Obviously the lower spec'd Hackintosh won't be able to match in terms of power. But the Hack Pro would be possible to build for around $1700 with very similar specs.

And just a heads up, the CPU in the Mac Pro is only worth $300, and the GPU's are close to being underclocked

October 24, 2013 at 1:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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David

Whoops, didn't finish the last sentence. I meant to say close to being underclocked AMD FirePro W7000.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1436253/mac-pro-dual-amd-firepro-d300-dual-am...

October 24, 2013 at 2:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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David

Video is not live anymore.

October 24, 2013 at 3:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Lisa

I can easily swing the quadcore. But if quadcore was adequate I would buy a real nice 27" iMac for less. Though the iMac only has 2 TB ports and no HDMI.
The real question though is how much of a price premium will we pay for the 8 or 12 core?

ps and a side note, will there be an updated TB display or LCD display?
The current ones are several design iterations behind the current iMacs and will look pretty ungainly next to the Mac Pro.

October 24, 2013 at 6:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Russ D

I think you may be oversimplifying the machine's specs, or else maybe your needs will simply be met by an iMac in which case go for it and save the money...

...the I/O on this thing is INSANE. It has the fastest SSD you can possibly purchase in anything, and without even adding anything to it there are already SIX thunderbolt 2 channels. That's enough expandability for 36 extremely high speed outboard storage appliances. Also, since when did the iMac offer dual GPU options?

October 25, 2013 at 12:35AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

So waiting for these to come out and bottom out the prices of the older models so i can scoop up a bargain.. Ive pushed my 2008 model to the max and its grading 4:4:4 12bit DNG files realtime.. Just ran out of fast pcie slots for cheap ssd.. Thanks to all the so called power users buying this stuff to surf the internet on and edit h264, u make the gear i need cheaper!

October 24, 2013 at 7:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ross

Hey Ross,

What setup have you configured on your 2008 mac pro? I'm in the process of sorting mine out for DNG editing too. So far I have: 8core 3.0Ghz, 16GB RAM, Vertex4 256SSD for OS on hidden SATA port on motherboard, NVIDIA GeForce 660 Ti 2GB, MAXPower RAID mini-SAS 6G-1e1i PCI controller, which uses the internal bays and allows proper hardware raid, which I have setup 2 RAID0 volumes using OCZ Vertex Vector 256GB and getting around 800MB write, 670MB read..... still not quite there yet and I'm thinking I need dual GPUs for Resolve?... can you explain what you have done. Many thanks

October 25, 2013 at 10:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ibrahim

PERFECT Mac for the GH2. Can't wait to get one!

October 24, 2013 at 8:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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NormRasner

Will it be available in other colours as 'Darth' black won't match my other kitchen appliances, I am talking chrome baby. Will most likely end up with one tho.

October 25, 2013 at 4:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chris K Jones

I've noticed that all their official promo photos it looks like black matte plastic, but in video footage it looks actually super reflective dark chrome almost.

I think it's just the minimalistic lighting they're using to keep it looking sophisticated or something. Seems cool though!

November 19, 2013 at 7:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I'll be fine with a less expensive hackintosh for the time being thanks.

October 25, 2013 at 8:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I suspect many, many people will be...and that's cool. There's nothing wrong with that.

The Mac Pro was a high end workstation in 2006, and finally in 2013 it's going to be one again. Not everyone needs a high end workstation though. For the vast, vast majority of users, a machine that simply has similar clock speeds, numbers of cores, and bytes of storage with a nice GPU will be enough. Your can easily match those specs in a hackintosh for less than half the money.

If you try to engineer something DIY that matches all the specs though, you'd quickly end up spending more and building a monster many times it's size with no warranty and low reliability.

November 11, 2013 at 1:04AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

$3000 for a computer that could be built for $1200???

October 28, 2013 at 4:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael Hawk

No, $3000 for a machine that can't be built for $3000. The difference being, a lot of the features are ones which average personal computer users would never think about or compare, which is why it's a workstation and not a game console or a word processing machine for a college student.

http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1qc447/i_crunched_some_numbers_an...

The only way to build a comparable machine for $1200, or even for $3000, is to ignore tons of relevant details in that comparison. Those details are, to the actual "workstation" user, highly relevant.

November 11, 2013 at 1:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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trackofalljades

Anyone looking to by a new Mack pro with anything less then 512GB SSD is wasting their money and time. Let's face it if your buying a macpro you are likely to be involved in motion graphics, video or other multimedia field. A 256GB home drive after loading software will leave you with around 100gig of working space if you don't store any additional media on your home drive. Most video projects will use this up in a hart beat leaving you with that frustrating out of memory error. The entry $3000 model MacPro should start with 512GB home drive Mac have let us down again. :-(
HP and Dell are looking better more and more each month. As a Mac faithful for over 13years Iv relayed on Mack to deliver scalable quality solutions. The last two years has been a major blow as broadcasters are all moving back to PC avid solutions.

December 19, 2013 at 12:53AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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DavidMHewson