Description image

The Agony and the Ecstasy of Shooting on a RED: Why Philip Bloom No Longer Owns an EPIC

12.10.11 @ 3:24PM Tags : , , , ,

On Wednesday my RED SCARLET-X camera showed up at the door, serial number 00072. I posted a quick picture to Twitter but had nothing more to say about it, given I’m waiting for some necessary accessories (this is on me, not RED, given I ordered third party batteries and don’t have access to any PL glass at the minute). But just as I’m getting my RED, Philip Bloom has given up his. Here’s what happened: Philip had originally written a very balanced post about why to get — and why not to get — a RED SCARLET-X. REDUSER exploded with negative reactions, and Philip started receiving emails from a “higher up” at RED:

As the emails went on that person DEMANDED to buy the camera back as they didn’t want me to have it anymore. I of course was utterly shocked. I tried to explain the value of me talking about the good AND the bad and how I got past the issues, I explained the value of having openeness about my experiences, after all RED have been great in helping me get it up and running each time and this was a huge positive!

…This person did two days later apologise for his completely out of order actions and I accepted the apology. He also retracted the demand for the camera back asking if I wanted to keep it but understood why I would not want it anymore. But I was done. I had dealt with too much. After all it was just a camera and no camera is worth the amount of grief (listed above). No camera. All I want is to shoot and create. Not deal with this nonsense.

That’s been Philip’s experience so far, and I think he’s handled it the same way he’s handled every camera over the years: with honesty and integrity.

UPDATE: RED’s Jim Jannard has apologized on REDUSER: “This situation is my fault… no one else’s.” The comments thread there is closed, and given the comments that have been posted here, I can see why. Please, if you’re going to add to this post, do just that: add to this post. I have a policy of not moderating comments on this site unless absolutely necessary, but any more personal attacks below may get deleted (feel free to disagree with me, I can take it, but I don’t like seeing Philip or Jim or Jarred being called names that you usually hear in a school yard, not as part of adult discussions). I’ve left the rest of the post, with my own thoughts, untouched.

First of all, I find it interesting that part of the debate was over an agreement (explicit or implicit) that Philip not talk about the problems he had with the camera. First of all, that’s ridiculous. There is a very clear delineation between beta testing something without going public and buying something with your own money. You beta test things without paying for them — if RED sends you a camera free of charge, they absolutely have the right to say, “please let us know if you have any problems, we’re working out the kinks.” Your payment for enduring those “kinks” is they lent you the camera for free. But if you spend $60,000 on something, you are a customer, and you have freedoms as a customer. Including saying whatever you damn well please. You can’t have it both ways — which it seems is exactly what RED and the “mystery” higher-up is asking for from Philip.


Based on my own experience with my SCARLET so far, I also find it odd that there was supposedly an agreement in place. Usually when you open a camera package you expect a warranty card, a printed manual, CDs with software and drivers, some sort of service contract with numbers to call, more documents that upsell you on accessories… for my SCARLET, at least, there was none of this. Just a (very securely packed) box with the “brain” inside. I’m not even clear on the terms and conditions of my warranty — presumably I can go back to the RED site and find this, but I haven’t had the time to hunt around.

Anyway, like Philip, I am here to try to educate and to share my experiences, as objectively as possible. Because I controversially ordered a SCARLET, I’ve been called a RED fanboy in the comments recently — although, on the other hand, a few posts from this site were also shared on REDUSER with the headline “NoFilmSchool articles bashing RED EPIC” (after a few pages, the original poster went back in and replaced “bashing” with “on,” after several commenters noted that I was just trying to be — shockingly — objective). This is generally what happens when you try to remain objective: some people say you love whatever it is you’re talking about and others say you hate it, when your relationship with anything in this world is always more nuanced and complicated — whether that be your relationship with your phone, your camera, or your significant other. Ultimately, I’m not looking to love or hate my camera — it’s a tool, great for some things and not so great for others, and it only matters to the extent that I can utilize it to achieve what I’m going for. And “what I’m going for” over the next year is to make my first feature, Man Child. If my camera is not reliable, that could get in the way. If I somehow end up on the shit list of the higher-ups at the manufacturer of said camera, that could also get in the way.

And this is what is unique about RED — the “agony and the ecstasy.” The agony of RED is that they’re a startup as opposed to a huge corporation, and that brings with it rough edges: long wait times and unknown backorder periods, convoluted ordering processes (my order history page, for example, has not been updated to reflect what items have shipped and which items I’ve canceled or changed), the risk of getting buggy or unreliable equipment as did Philip, and the fact that important information is often buried in a thread in REDUSER (RED changed their RED Armor extended warranty after their SCARLET announcement, so that while you could originally order the extended warranty anytime in the first year of ownership, you must now order it prior to your camera shipping — and this appeared deep in a REDUSER thread and on the online store, with no notice to those who had already ordered). But the ecstacy of RED is also that they’re a startup as opposed to a huge corporation: they do ambitious things like shipping a 4K camera when everyone else is working with 1080p, they price their 4K brain at $9,750, they give you trade-in pricing on your RED ONE, they offer upgradeable sensors (the importance of which cannot be overstated, I believe), they invest in building future 4K projector and 4K playback systems for lower prices than anyone else, and they make most of their stuff (except their outsourced components) right here in the U.S. of A. The fact that they’re a startup, therefore, is both to their advantage and disadvantage, and as someone with a startup of my own — which is what this site is, really, and if you don’t believe that come back in a year or two — I understood when ordering my own SCARLET that I was buying into a more volatile ecosystem than that of Sony, Panasonic, or Canon. But it’s an ecosystem that I believe has a higher ceiling than those other manufacturer’s, and it’s an ecosystem that I feel a certain kinship toward given my affinity for scrappy, ambitious film startups.

Philip Bloom is probably #1 on the “people you don’t want to start a pissing match about cameras with” list, along with Vincent Laforet. And despite the fact that I have not been a prolific shooter to date, thanks in small part to my very visual and very cheap web series from a few years ago, and thanks in larger part to this website at present, I’m also somewhat high up on that list. If you Google RED SCARLET-X, in fact, you will find multiple posts on this site listed on Google’s first page — above any result from RED.com or REDUSER. After the two most popular search terms for this site, which are fittingly “no film school” and “nofilmschool” — no surprise there — the top two search referrers are “red scarlet” and “red scarlet-x.” So, like it or not, this site is going to be a source of news and opinion about RED going forward.1 And going forward, at no point in shooting on a RED do I plan on being silent about any issues I run into — but this is the SCARLET, which is sold to the masses, not the “beta” EPIC-M. So hopefully when (not if) I share what I like and dislike about the camera, I won’t get on anyone’s shit list. We’re all just here to make the best movies we can and sharing our experiences honestly is the best way to help each other. Because, really, all of the technological advantages of your camera go out the window if you’re sitting in the director’s chair on the fiftieth take of the most important shot in your film, the actors capture lightning in a bottle, the assistant cameraman nails the focus, the sound guy give you the thumbs up — and your camera crashes.

Link: Why I love the RED Epic and why I don’t have one anymore – Philip Bloom

  1. As I’ve said before, this will not change the focus away from DSLRs and other DIY solutions — with more writers, this site will cover more topics more effectively. []

COMMENT POLICY

We’re all here for the same reason: to better ourselves as writers, directors, cinematographers, producers, photographers... whatever our creative pursuit. Criticism is valuable as long as it is constructive, but personal attacks are grounds for deletion; you don't have to agree with us to learn something. We’re all here to help each other, so thank you for adding to the conversation!

Description image 259 COMMENTS

  • Maturity and sincerity. Two keys lacking that people like you and Philip seem to have. Thanks and keep doing what you guys do.

  • I really love this site, one of the best you could find about Digital Cinema and all related. BUT, i must tell you, this article it’s not nice at all, you are not saying nothing more than Phillip Bloom says in his blogpost, and he had problems, but you did not, why are you saying all this?
    And about what you said and i quote below, you really think that? If ever, NOW you look like a RedFanboy, ranting and talking nonsense, far from being an objective opinion. Why?

    “Philip Bloom is probably #1 on the “people you don’t want to start a pissing match about cameras with” list, along with Vincent Laforet. And despite the fact that I have not been a prolific shooter to date, thanks in small part to my very visual and very cheap web series from a few years ago, and thanks in larger part to this website at present, I’m also somewhat high up on that list… forward, at no point in shooting on a RED do I plan on being silent about any issues I run into — but this is the SCARLET, which is sold to the masses, not the “beta” EPIC-M. So hopefully when (not if) I share what I like and dislike about the camera, I won’t get on anyone’s shit list.”

    • Wait, my article is “not nice at all” and that makes me look like a “RedFanboy?” Those two things seem mutually exclusive… how is this NOT objective?

      • Where are you objective? What happend to you? No user manual in the box.. ok

        • Did I say, “there is no user manual in the box and that makes RED terrible?” No. I said, “there is no user manual in the box.” I’m sharing information. Objectively. There is also that long passage about why I like RED, and also the fact that I bought a SCARLET, which is the single largest investment of my life so far.

          I make it very clear in the post that there are things I like and things I dislike, and that is true of everything. If you can’t deal with the complexity of gray areas, I can’t help you.

          • Koo, read the comments, everyone thinks you had issues with your Scarlet-X or something alike. Yes, indeed i have a problem with your “grey areas”. Especially the “we are part of a gropu of people you dont want to mess with if related to cameras..” Why they said you are being brave?!? Yes, i have problems dealing with the complexity of grey areas.
            Again, have a great evening.

        • Carlos, what the hell are you talking about? You’re making no sense…and being a prick.

          • Different carlos here

            Seriously dude, maybe you should read Koos article once more, how much more objective does it get

          • You still being rude man, why?

          • I now understand you are the kind of people this article is headed to.

          • If I’m being rude it’s in response to your idiotic statements. Example – “If ever, NOW you look like a RedFanboy, ranting and talking nonsense, far from being an objective opinion. Why?”

            Re-read Koo’s article, take a deep breath and grow up.

      • This is the last I’m saying about this, but if Bloom who can afford $80k tech had problems on payed shoots, do you really want to mess with this camera on a small budget shoot, that you have so much riding on?

        • Have you ever filmed with a Red One?

        • You’ll notice most RED shoots have multiple cameras. Nowhere have I ever said I’m planning on shooting Man Child on just one RED… and, in fact, owning one sure as hell helps to ensure that there’s a backup.

          • I have seen several shoots with only one Red camera. 3 to 8 weeks of day in and day out use.

          • It is always prudent to have a back up camera, and Koo is wise for having that plan in mind.

  • thanks for your honesty and sincerity in this article man. Your and Bloom’s articles are the two most fair assesments of Red I’ve seen, and that’s coming from a guy who spends the majority of his time defending his Red

  • You and Philip are brave. I wouldn’t go spending that type of money on what is essentially a beta camera.

  • IMO the only reason why this company is so strict about the posts people make about it, is because it’s such a small company and they know if word gets out that they make high priced junk. Then they’ll go down in flames with a few lawsuits to boot. It’s understandable they want to keep the right ideals about their cameras alive. But it’s also not understandable why they do all this stuff in the public realm. This REDUSER site needs to probably shut itself down for fear of putting more bad mojo on the company. And spend ALL of their time making the absolute best camera for the money. Also, just a side note. for the price you pay for the camera, there really should be a bunch of stuff in that box with the camera. I’d say even a t-shirt would be nice. That way you can go out and wear it and give the company all kinds of free publicity…which is what they are always after. Jesus who works in PR at this company. I just gave a bunch of ways to make that company better and yet i’m not being employed by them. IF they ever begin doing these things, they owe me a royalty check.

  • I think it was Jim Jannard himself Philip was exchanging emails with. In his reply to a comment posted about the blog, Philip wrote “Thanks Aidan. I wish it had just been an employee then that person would have had someone to answer to.”

    Isn’t there only one person at RED that answers to no one?

    Pretty much narrows it down.

    Second, who else could authorize buying back an $80,000 camera.

    Hmmm….

    • Nobody cares more about RED more than Jim Jannard himself. I think you might be right ;)

      • stickingwithcanon on 12.10.11 @ 4:53PM

        Yeah, i think its clearly Jim himself. Otherwise, it must have been sanctioned by Jim. No way that an employee could piss of PB like that without the go ahead. Bad move all around on RED’s part.

        Those cameras are going to be expensive paper weights in a few years when RED self destructs with business practices like this. They’ve had a history of being negative, offensive, immature, secretive, etc. about their products and their respective flaws. Only wish they would clean up their act and start focusing on being a company that provides a more reliable service to their customers.

        • Yeah, funny thing is i still wanted a RED, despite Philip’s problems with his Epic and the limitations of the Scarlet (cropping mostly). But after reading about all this drama him and Jim got into, i can say without a shadow of a doubt they won’t be getting my20-80k anytime soon. Not because i am offended so much as scared. Could you imagine investing in a system of this kind and then having to watch your every step to assure that you don’t wind up on their “shit list”. I mean, long lead times and unreliable product is one thing… If the company grows over time those kinks should be worked out. But being shunned and unable to buy additional support and upgrades for your camera because of a blog post or something you say on a forum (especially when they are objective and honest) is something i wouldn’t be willing to risk. I don’t think this is a concern i would have with any other camera company and i think its enough to ensure that i too am sticking to mature, proven companies. Not overly entitled startups.

          • I hate to say this, but if you are following P Bloom, you shouldn’t be buying a Red, or any camera over $10,000.

  • Philip told the truth, his own experience about a camera. What RED did to Philip was EXTREMELY immature, just like thousands of those RED fan boys out there. NO ONE is instantly a better filmmaker for just owning a RED camera. Philip did the right thing, consumer has full rights to say about their experiences with a product, good or bad. RED should listen and improve, by pissing off a well known camera reviewer does not help RED branding. However to the public, it sends a message that we think RED is an arrogant company.

    Speaking of ScarletX, now is 11th of Dec. Once again, RED did not meet their promised shipping date. The legend of RED NOT being able to ship on time continues. RED must have rushed to the announcement to match C300. Their production line is not that ready. This is my first bad experience with RED is having to wait for a UNKOWN period to get hold of one camera body.

    I think you should not worry too much Koo. I ordered one ScarletX to try, I am not afraid sharing my bad experiences (if any) nor I do not care about what RED and their fan boys have got to say. There are people out there who can be honest about a camera, if the tool is shit, drop it and move on.

  • Sorry, but i think this is just for having some attention from the Phillip Bloom problem and blogpost. Please, keep it objective as you said “Anyway, like Philip, I am here to try to educate and to share my experiences, as objectively as possible”. I can tell you, you have the respect from the indie film community, you have my respect as a profesional who knows that sharing knowledge is everything. Aside the user manual “issue”, you had any other problems? Then why you do this? To tell everyone that “hopefully when (not if) I share what I like and dislike about the camera, I won’t get on anyone’s shit list.”

    • Dude — I said “what I LIKE and DISLIKE.” Did you miss the “LIKE” part of that sentence?

      • Dude? Koo, have a nice evening.

        • Hehehe, so now the war is about “Dude” not the Red? I”m a nobody in cinematography but I’ve never seen this kind of intolerance on any western blog, Red Fans sound like some soviet era organization. Thou shall not dissent, nay, thous shall not doubt.

  • You paid fair money for this camera, you don’t owe RED positive feedback or good publicity unless it’s actually deserved. You owe the community your honesty and genuine experiences with the camera. You paid for it with the communities’ generosity, so if the camera crashes, or is at all unreliable, they need to know. Don’t fear any ‘bad vibes’ from RED.

    If they can’t keep their ambitions consistent they should be more realistic. Their customers should not feel pressured to sugar coat them.

    They’re acting like the MAFIA.

    We trust you Koo,

  • Thats the risk of working with a small company, you actually get to deal with people…and their flaws…good or bad. Thats why RED has such a strong following, its personal. Its very hard to find that nowadays. Its a real community, within in itself, with all kinds of characters. Its not all candy and ice cream. I think this is an isolated case because RED is usually pretty chill.

    • I prefer impersonal, anti-social companies which deliver reliable products

      • Do you own any RED products? Do you know what public Beta means? People forget the Epic is just now starting to roll out as a ‘regular’ product

  • THis is all about integrity and it seems to me that Ryan and Philip have retained theirs and
    have risen above this murky development. If you are an Indy just starting out and excited by the new offerings and wrangling with financing options, then, because we are mere human beings, emotion is part of the mix. This is what branding is all about. This episode may affect my decisions about investing in Red systems. I’m reminded that there was reference on the Red site about buying ” with bad attitude”, well, what about selling with “bad attitude”? If a major influencer is treated this way, how is little old’ me going to be treated?

  • “Because, really, all of the technological advantages of your camera go out the window….” literally? i’d like to see a camera being thrown out a window.

  • Wow reading the comments was great till some carlos troll kept showing up.

    • Why you call me that?

      • What are you talking about? Are you really that upset that Koo revealed to the world that the Scarlet came without a manual in the box? If that’s the case why don’t you get over to reduser.net and talk bollocks with all the other like minded fan boys.

        • Great that you read everything i wrote, that means you just want to be rude and dont know why, you feel the same way as Koo for his Scarlet not having a user manual :D

          • How did the fact that there’s not a user manual in the box get blown out of proportion? It’s not a big deal. There are a lot of other observations here more important than that one…

          • again different carlos

            lol dude I really dont get what your issue is?

            Koo just invested ALOT of money, and will have to invest a lot more with time, in this company, he’s a fanyboy but then he’s being mean by saying that he will make clear his struggles and successes with the system, this happens with every single camera, get over it man

          • Im not calling you a fan boy, im saying carlos duenas is contradicting himself

  • this man spits the truth

  • Love how you can’t find a peep about this on REDUSER either. How are we supposed to view the site as a place to go and receive genuine information when they censor it so heavily in times such as this. Very sad day for RED.

    • It was on reduser, it was taken down because it would start a firestorm like the first time. Since Philip posted it on his blog, people should go there or to a site like this which is neutral. reduser.net is for people who like RED…I wouldn’t go to a Christian forum and start arguing atheist points. Its just going to cause problems. All “news” and comments are subjective and can be filtered. Even nofilmschool is SUBJECTIVE no matter how hard Koo tries to be Objective. He can only try his best.

  • Koo, are you impressed by the C300?

    You should be…

    http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=9006

  • Jake Kilgore on 12.10.11 @ 5:39PM

    I don’t understand the negative comments on this website. I have read EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE on this website since I first discovered it about 8 months ago, and I have never run into anything even remotely off-color or bullheaded. And in some of the articles, you will blatantly reveal if you have a bias in the argument. When all of the cards are on the table, what is left to be upset about?

    • Agreed. What I’ve always loved about this site is it’s not just compiled information from across the internet, but there’s a personal level in which Koo is honest about his dreams and aspirations. If you come here often you know how much is riding on this RED camera, and so I think I understand some of why this is a little bit of a bigger deal.

      The great thing about the anonymity of the internet is that it’s really easy to pigeon-hole people into a fanboy/hater…

  • This reminds me of a few years ago when I was labeled an Apple fanboy. Now that everyone owns an Apple device you rarely hear that anymore… lol. Get my drift?

    • No I don’t…but then again I don’t own anything by Apple…android, pc’s, mp3, etc. always rip off their features and charge much less than Apple…

  • Koo can’t afford every camera out there but what he can afford is to give us all a honest assessment of the gear he has access to, personally I’m grateful for all the information here. Love Phillip Bloom but kind of put off that he gave the camera up because of the actions of a few dumb people as opposed to the technical issues.(lots of them) I don’t really care about what’s associated with the camera only the quality it produces unless the camera was made by slaves or something.

    With this new generation of cameras I’m seeing more diverse strengths and weaknesses, C300 rocks for quick set ups, RED kills with quality but comes with a huge time sink.

    Choose the camera best suited for your project, simple as that.

  • Koo, great article, I enjoy reading your perspective on matters such as these regardless of what position you take or appear to have taken.

    Also, just a friendly reminder not to feed the trolls, its like chumming the water ;) Screw em and keep writing whatever you want on *your* site.

  • Hehe it’s funny, with all this talk about RED cameras now i gave up the idea of renting them in the future and rather go for canon c300 or sony f3 x)
    it’s funny how suggestive the internet can be.
    and in no way am i critisizing you Koo, I think what you’re doing is great, but i do find it funny, yes funny, how in one day, after so much talk about it’s problems, i went from “god i would love to have a red epic” to “meh” x)

    • I think it’s easy to swing to either extreme, but… truth is somewhere in the middle. Everyone (this site included) was over-the-top about the SCARLET as compared to the C300 at first, now it’s swinging the other way…. and given time, it will probably swing back to the RED… then the other way again…

      • My point exactly, there is no better camera as a matter of fact, merely preference, something that swings one way or the other quite easily lately with all the revolution in new tech. Next week we’ll probably go back to ” oh no! the C300 only has a 8 bit Codec!” and we’ll forget that bloom ever had an epic x)
        This is starting to sound like:
        “Join the dark side!”
        “No! Join the light side!”
        “Shush! I’ll stay a grey jedi if you don’t mind.” x)

  • Philip reacts pretty strongly to things. He gets fired up pretty fast when chided on forums, and starts making all kinds of demands.

    The boys at red are mostly engineer types, so I can imagine that they didn’t handle the situation as deftly as a PR agent, and Philip probably went off.

    Bottom line:
    -Red is a tool made for pros
    -Bloom said he would use an Epic on a pro job

    -Red was discouraged by that and offered to buy back
    -Bloom said no

    - Private emails start between Red and Bloom
    - Bloom is offended

    -Rumor mill started on forums
    -Bloom lashes back at forum users (anyone of us would’ve been banned or suspended for that.)

    -Bloom is upset and sells Epic back to Red
    -Red buys back Epic + all 3rd party add-ons

    - Forums suppress rumors mill, because conduct is not befitting their format
    - Bloom posts reasons why he gave up Red, which no longer raise questions to the Red camera’s professional applications, but start to raise questions about the personality of the Red staff.

  • Edit:
    -Red is a tool for pros
    -Bloom said he would NOT use an Epic on a pro job

    That is a pretty strong statement once you sort through all the fluff.

  • Koo, just wanted to say good post and awesome site. I’m a Nofilmschool fanboy. ;) I honestly don’t think you have to really even worry about being TOTALLY objective nor worry if someone thinks you are not, as its a blog not The NY Times. I would rather read bout your opnions on the facts,not just the facts. Red and anyone else can suck it if they don’t like it.

    • Richard, i totally respect you and your work, as Koo’s, really dont understand why everyone is been so rude, including you.

      • This is not aimed toward you, I’m just being generally rude toward Red and the fanboys… ;)

      • Egocentric much?

        This is being rude.

        • Like I said…I am being rude to fanboys and Red in my statement. But I wasn’t directing it to Carlos…honestly I didn’t read the comments until now. Hes not an employee of RED nor a fanboy, so the statement doesnt apply to him.

          I believe a blog is great to post facts and ideas and opinions. If a company decides they want to police the Internet and attack bloggers for opinions on their products….then I believe that is not right. I also feel those who act like fanboys don’t help the filmmaking community. I don’t think Koo or anyone else need worry about such people. Sorry if me telling such people that they can “suck it” offends you in some way, it’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

          • Actually Crook my above statement was towards Carlos since he automatically though your comments were aimed at him, thus me asking if he’s egocentric x)
            Sorry if you misunderstood, even more so cause i agree with what you said.

          • Oh ok…haha. I’m definitely not trying to offend anyone, lol. Thanks for clarifying. :)

  • Clayton Arnall on 12.10.11 @ 7:11PM

    When the Scarlet-X was first announced, I admit I was frothing at the mouth like everyone else. I thought Canon was done. Then I read PB’s first post on the issue which brought some balance to everything and I started having a more objective look at the C300. Then all this RED nonsense starts, and I must admit and I am really turned off by the fanboys and people that defend things no matter what, with no apparent reason – kinda like this Carlos character above. I usually end up running the other way. So at the end of it all, I’m already sick of RED and I’ve never even used one. Meanwhile the C300 which I thought was a bit of a dud at the beginning, seems to be getting more attractive and cheaper with time. This whole drama is pretty interesting from a marketing perspective.

    • You know, flip floppers are just fanboys disappointed.

      Red is still the only 4k solution. Has astounding image quality that even Bloom is sad to see go. Red is the only company to bring cameras of this caliber to this price range. Red is the only reason prosumer guys even consider over spending on a digital cinema camera.

      • Edit: Sony has the F65 as of very recent.

      • Clayton Arnall on 12.10.11 @ 10:47PM

        perhaps some ‘flipflopers’ yes, but others are people who believe the marketing hype of a product, only to learn things aren’t so rosy when they read the fine print. Like you can’t even shoot at 60fps without an almost unusable crop factor of 3.9x – fine if every shot is telephoto, but for anything wide, unusable.

        • The Scarlet can’t process 60 frames of 4k RAW fast enough. It is supposedly physically limited by the hardware. Similarly the C300 cannot do more than 30p because the sensor read out is up to 30fps max. And who knows why the F3 can’t do 60p either.

          But I see what you are saying, you felt the specs were presented in a misleading way.

          Clayton, do you have a demo real link?

  • Red will have a very hard time lasting 2 more years with this nonsense. The term “Beta” for Epic, being a “professional” camera only means expect it to fail. An excuse more likely. “Hey RED, my Epic crashed 7 times and I lost all my prime actors moments”. RED would reply, “It’s still in Beta, deal with it”. So I say to RED and all it’s fanboys, “Better watch out for Canon to bring an Aircraft carrier to a bazooka fight”. And yes, I have shot on RED. ANd yes, it crashed….

    • You do realize RED is swamped right now? I hope other people stop buying their products…. that way I’ll get my stuff sooner.

    • If Canon takes them on directly they are toast.

      • Thats not true, Canon would actually take a major L if they did that. They make $0 right now from high end sales. RED competition is Sony and Arri.

        • Canon could, if they wanted too, make a 4k s35 Raw capture camera at the drop of a hat. Look at the 1Dx. 12fps with a mirror in UNCOMPRESSED RAW Cr2. Like I said, just how long will it be until they have a 4/5K camera doing that? DV digic IV? You realize the C300 has a 4k sensor in it. Only the processor is holding that back.

          • I highly doubt that…a lot would have to be redone…you know compact flash is trying to replace CP cards with its new QXD cards right? in 2012, making the c300 even more out of date…in the same year. I doubt making a camera can be done at the “drop of a hat”. Lots of technical factors

        • Canon could destroy RED if they wanted to, for the simple fact that they’re a giant corporation that does a bunch of different things and has deep pockets. If they wanted, they could make a 4k raw camera and selling for $12. That would be a terrible business decision, and they’d lost a bunch of money, sure, but they’ve got other departments they could use to cover it.

          OK, obviously not for $12 they couldn’t, but you get my point. A bigger corporation could easily “Wal-Mart” RED the same way Wal-Mart Wal-Marted smaller local shops even though those shops often had better service, selection, etc. In RED’s case it would only be easier because bigger companies have more resources for testing, shipping, etc. — all the areas where RED has pissed people off…..or, put it this way: if Canon started offering a camera with the same specs as Scarlet-X for the same or a lower price tomorrow, who would you buy from? For me, that’s a no-brainer. And I don’t doubt that Canon COULD do that if they wanted to, I just don’t think they care that much, or perhaps the bean counters added it all up and decided it probably wasn’t worth the effort. That market is tiny anyway compared to what they make off of DSLRs or their even cheaper cameras.

          As far as RED is concerned, I’ve never been impressed with their PR or the image they project, so this doesn’t come as a huge shock to me. But I do hope someone over there is getting fired today. Because whatever you think about Phillip Bloom, this is the kind of PR mistake you really can’t afford to make.

    • Well, this is what people said when they announced the RED ONE. Now it’s five years later, thousands of features have been shot on RED cameras, the biggest blockbusters around are being shot on EPIC… you really think they’ll have a “very hard time lasting 2 more years?”

      • The biggest issue I have with RED right now is that their products don’t ship fast enough…. they are seriously back ordered… that means they are SWAMPED people. They can’t even keep up with demand. Which also affects their customer service. Everyone should know this… I hope they fix it soon. I really have no issues with my Epic camera. Didn’t have playback until last week… but did you guys know that the ARRI Alexa didn’t have playback for 9 months after the cameras shipped? They also didn’t have audio for nine months too. So many on here think RED is like a Mafia… in some ways they are. I won’t deny that… but they do make the best cameras in my humble opinion. I don’t want anything else… so therefore I put up with the delays, etc.

        • dude canon is fuckign HUGEEEEEEE, RED is a small start up in california that HAND BUILDS their cameras, try get that somewhere else, of course theyre going to be backordered, their customer base just tripled

      • As you said, Koo, RED has a solid grip on the hollywood side of the market right now. They’ll be around two years from now, no question. Whether or not they’ll be around in ten years is a question, though. Here’s why:

        For the Hollywood guys, the only real issue is image. If the camera is faulty, ships late, etc., that doesn’t matter to them because they can afford to buy or rent as many as they want (aren’t they using something like 38 Epics for the Hobbit?) So as long as RED can stay ahead of everyone else on image, and barring any kind of major mess-up, they will keep that market. BUT…

        The company clearly made a decision to move into the “video pro” market with the Scarlet-X. I assume that they invested quite a bit in R&D for that camera, so they need it to pay off. Unfortunately, reliability in that market is often everything, it’s way more important than it is in Hollywood, because even guys like Phillip Bloom can’t afford to buy a bunch of back-up Epics or Scarlets in case something goes wrong. And issues like long waits for shipping, etc. are problems too. So is PR. If people get the impression that RED is a company of assholes selling unreliable cameras, they’re done in this market. They’ll still have Hollywood, because those guys don’t care about PR or reliability as much, so long as ultimately it doesn’t mess up the shot. BUT….

        RED has their bottom line to worry about, and I don’t imagine they can really afford for the Scarlet-X to fail. Certainly, losing money on the Scarlet-X would hurt the company. And, as I said earlier, their hold on Hollywood is entirely based on their ability to provide a great image. That’s the sort of thing that (1) financial losses could hurt, as they could be forced to let go of good engineers and (2) big companies like Canon and Sony can afford to take a shot at, if they want to.

        If RED ends up losing the lower-end market to these guys after making their play — and being pretty aggressive about it especially towards Canon — that might be reason enough for someone big to say “Let’s go for the kill” and throw corporate resources into developing a camera with a better image than RED. I think anyone would be foolish to think that Canon or Sony could do that, if they wanted to. And the Scarlet-X took a pretty hard shot at the C300 and the F3, so both of those companies might decide they’re sick of it. RED has good engineers, but ultimately a big company can do lots of little things to undermine them: poach their engineers by offering them huge pay raises, mess with their marketing by running anti-RED ads on a scale RED can’t afford to compete with financially, or just by hiring 10 times the number of engineers RED has to do the same stuff they’re doing and see who ends up with a better product.

        And if someone else comes out with a camera that provides a better image, easier or more flexible post workflow, etc., do not doubt for a second that the Hollywood guys will all switch. It’s not about brand loyalty for most of them, it’s about whatever makes their movie look the best. For the lower-end market, brand loyalty is more of a factor I think, but large scale PR fails like this one are exactly how you lose whatever brand loyalty might be out there.

        Whether or not RED’s here in ten years depends very much, I think, on what they do now. And from a personal perspective, the impression I’ve gotten from them is that regardless of how good their cameras are, they don’t care about their customers. That “we’re RED, we don’t need you,” attitude just oozes from a lot of the things they do, and it’s going to hurt the with the Scarlet-X in ways it hasn’t with their higher-priced cameras.

        • I think this could turn into a disaster for their company. There is already so much going against Red, just from within, as Koo says. The lack of documentation, hit or miss customer service, bi-polar userbase (fanboys), constantly changing futures of products, plus the perception of confusing user interface, lack of reliability, and in addition, a large number of hollywood people won’t use it because its “degrading professional” “giving cameras to outsiders” etc: These are all issues it has to overcome, and most of it stems from the way they market themselves. I don’t think insulting Philip Bloom is going to do them any favors.

          I love the Epic. It represents everything that is great about the future of cameras. It produces by far the most controllable image available. But the company is always more important than the product, especially in hollywood.

      • Just wait for the impact dual Epics at 48fps 3D is going to have. It’s all we’re going to hear about for months and months after THOSE films come out… And FWIW, I saw “War Horse” last week, and it was luscious. Film isn’t quite dead yet. It is the tool that particular filmmaker still prefers.

        • I am pretty sure Janusz Kaminski could shoot a feature on a webcam and make it look amazing. The person’s always more important than the camera… or recording medium!

  • Richard, as i said, and you know, you and you’r work have all my respect. Indeed i’m not a Red employee nor a fanboy, just have an opinion, based on my own experience. Yes, i believe the people commenting here have been very rude, far from an egocentric statement. And they have not read the comments, as you did.

    • Edit: As of today, I’m a RED Fanboy, and that means talking about what i really know, and not repeating what i read on others blogposts.

    • You have every right to your opinion. But I didn’t read your posts when I wrote what I wrote…and didn’t direct what I said toward you at all. I even explained this to you after you posted on Facebook and defriended me. You said I was rude to you both here and on FB. All of this without any grounds whatsoever. I’m sorry you feel ppl are bei rude…but attacking me for no reason is ridiculous.

        • You have every right to your opinion. But I didn’t read your posts when I wrote what I wrote…and didn’t direct what I said toward you at all. I even explained this to you after you posted on Facebook and defriended me. You said I was rude to you both here and on FB. All of this without any grounds whatsoever. I’m sorry you feel ppl are bei rude…but attacking me for no reason is ridiculous.

        • Carlos, go easy… no need to call people rude or fanboys or any name for that matter!

  • Mystery man… yeah okay. Someone tell Jim to calm his nerves down a bit. I’m no longer a fan of RED gear. I’ve had too many problems with the EPIC on a short film shoot, and the customer service I was given while I was filming an independent project on the Red One was horrifying. 4K is awesome, but you know what… I can wait for Canon’s version to come out. For now I’ll continue using the Canon 5D, and 7D, and the Arri Alexa when it fits into our budget. I’ve used it 3 times already and it’s the BEST.

    I don’t care what anyone says, nothing in the Red lineup can compare to that of an Arri Alexa. The only thing RED has over these other brands, is they offer 4K.

    • They do offer 5K and HDRx on the Epic in a lightweight, modular body… with frame rates unto 300fps at 2k. :-)

      • RED is not true 4K/5K, still have to debayer to get RGB at every pixel. Masters of Marketing though, have to give them credit for that. Alexa used 3.5K sensor to get 1080 image, making it the “best” HD camera so far…

  • The startling TRUTH about Philip Bloom!! http://vimeo.com/15064558

    • Cool. Reminds me of meeting and talking with him at NaB this year, even though just for a few minutes. I was surprised at how genuine and down to earth the guy is.

  • Rev. Benjamin on 12.10.11 @ 9:39PM

    So much drama surrounding devices. Unreal.

  • And guess who is laughing his ass to the bank while all this drama is raging?

  • A lot of this could’ve been avoided by RED if they handled the situation properly. They would’ve ignore this from a buyer of lesser not but since it was Phillip Bloom they had to do damage control.

    I don’t think this will hurt them a lot, but it’s unfortunate to lose someone so significant that backed your product.

  • I think it is good. Philip’s purchase of the Epic, probably encourage too many dslr users to take the plunge into the scarlet world. Philip jumping ship is only going to help those who were buying on hype and over reaching their resources.

    Philip over reacts to kids on forums, so I can only imagine how he over reacted to Red’s emails.

  • The best filmmakers use the cameras that nobody else is willing to use.

    • I love that!

      • Everyone has to remember that Philip Bloom is also a brand. It is hard to differentiate, even for Bloom himself.

        • What are you talking about? You have been saying nothing but crap about the man.

          • Am I really talking crap about him? And don’t take that the wrong way, I genuinely want to know what you think.

  • Well I’m glad people here can discuss things openly you get a message like this over at dvxuser if you speak your mind,
    “You have been banned for the following reason:
    The president of RED has absolutely nothing to do with this site, and your accusations are libelous bullshit. Our board, our rules, they work, we’re not going to change them just for you, so go find somewhere you’re happier.

    Date the ban will be lifted: Never”

  • Yeah. I think I’m just going to break out my 16mm Bolex and wait out all this digital fad. ; )

  • weary_of_SPIN on 12.11.11 @ 12:32AM

    am not that impressed by Bloom’s work, frankly… just sort of bland. a personal observation. i mean, seriously, compare his profile pieces to the trailer to ‘dragon tattoo.’ are fincher and cronenweth “blogging” about the inevitable hiccups on working with the just-released Epic?? Jackson? – no. they’re professional filmmakers, not professional bloggers.

    Bloom comes off mostly self-serving in his public airing, draping himself in the flag of ‘integrity.’

    • Jim? Is that you?

    • So you think his work is bland, and that he should shut up about problems he had with the camera – got it.

    • Will Gilbey on 12.11.11 @ 3:22AM

      Fincher and Jackson aren’t blogging because they each have over two dozen Red Epics on set and Red Technicians on location 24/7. The Red was about an affordable solution for lower budget films/projects. If it doesn’t work and/or is unreliable it will lose that part of the market.

      • Really? Are you shooting your next feature on it? Or do you just wannabe shooting your feature on RED?

        • Will Gilbey on 12.12.11 @ 1:51AM

          Slimshady – shot a short and a feature on Red One. Shooting next feature on Alexa.

    • Ha ha! Sorry but must be one of the dumbest comments ever! No offence but comparing why stuff to Fincher’s Dragon Tattoo…Of course it’s better!

      First time i have smiled during all of this. Thanks for that! I needed a good laugh!

      P

      • Will Gilbey on 12.12.11 @ 1:57AM

        Dragon Tattoo is Fincher with a $100 million budget and a 127 day shoot. I don’t think there’s a solo shooter alive who’s work could be favorably compared to it. Phillip – your work is awesome and you’re consistently inspiring and informative.

  • weary_of_SPIN on 12.11.11 @ 12:51AM

    also: in his replies in the comments section, Bloom repeatedly hints – hard – that it was Jannard himself who he collided with. so much for “moving on” and being “otally upfront. it just comes off as more gossip, and detracts from his own arguments of conscience. i mean, i’m sympathetic to the technical issues he encountered, but I wish he could clarify in detail exactly how he tried to contact RED when he the issues arose. is he absolutely certain, as essentially a one-man operation, that the issues were not due in part to his own error? if i were in his situation and had reached the same conclusions he ultimately did, man, I’d just walk away, not create a sh*tstorm of publicity for both parties… unless it was happening to a lot more people.

    • Zzzzzzzzz…. eyes rolling back so far in skull that I can see my medulla oblongata.

    • Why don’t you ask him in his post instead of trying to spin things here?

      • Amen_Sistah on 12.11.11 @ 2:26AM

        A few thousand Epics in the wild, working just fine apparently… except for poor Philip’s. Hmmmm, now where do THEY go to spin??

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 1:58AM

    There is too much testosterone over at RED. Jarred Land runs the forum like a fascist and and douche. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the one Bloom was emailing and who demanded the camera back.

    Philip Bloom is way over praised. He has turned to social networking sites to promote his average self. His reviews are pathetically bland and useless. It always boils down to use the right cam for the right job. So whats the point in reviewing. He’s an opportunist that needs attention. and this one will get him alot of it. He knows what he’s doing. I’d like to hear REd’s side of the story because Philips is just a long whine.

    • Well I guess that settles it.

    • Amen_Sistah on 12.11.11 @ 2:17AM

      Exactly. And if you think Bloom is bland, click thru for the sample reels of the worst RED haters…

      • Ronald Reagan was a RED hater, and yet, he ended the cold war.

        • Amen_Sistah on 12.11.11 @ 2:29AM

          I bet you ten grand that the Gipper was wrong about all that Commie stuff… TEN GRAND, for pete’s sake!

  • Amen_Sistah on 12.11.11 @ 2:20AM

    And get a load of Bloom’s new twitter avatar… as childish a move as one could imagine. NYAH NYAH

  • Yeah, and he’s wearing a scarf, and squinting as he looks thru the eyepiece, and.his hair looks like he gels it, get a load of that!

  • Amen_Sistah on 12.11.11 @ 2:34AM

    At least the scarf is slimming, I’ll give you that

  • Wow, 126 comments. That must be a record for NFS.

    I’ve never liked the way Red is run as a company (and so don’t many others), but they still make great cameras. At the end of the day you need to take the good with the bad. Also, a proper PR person wouldn’t hurt.

    • You don’t like the way RED operates as a company? Oh? What has your experience been as a customer of RED’s, exactly? Specifics?

      • You don’t have to be a customer to have an opinion on a company. Part of their job is to attract new customers, and that requires projecting an image to the market, not just people who’ve already bought their cameras. It is perfectly reasonable for non-RED-owners to have an opinion about the company and the way it is run. That image might not fit with what a RED owner perceives, but 9 times out of 10, that just means that company sucks at PR/marketing.

        And as a journalist who covers the tech industry and a former PR guy, let me tell you: RED sucks at PR. If they didn’t, this thread wouldn’t exist.

        • Where were you a PR guy before?

          • Would prefer not to name names, but a major internet company that works in the area of video.

          • Fair enough C Custer. I saw your icon has Chinese on it. I lived in China for 13years and I was just interested in what your background might be.

        • I really think they should get a PR person too. Not so they can become like every other company out there, or change how they do things, or modify REDUSER… but simply to manage… well, their public relations… much better. As they grow this is even more important…

        • Exactly, great point from a former PR person. I may not be a Red owner, but the fact is that Red hangs their dirty laundry out for everyone to see.

  • It’s a tool. If the handle keeps falling of your shovel, you use a different shovel. You don’t buy multiple of the same brand, anticipating handle-related mishaps on a daily basis.

    I’m not particularly interested in the sort of work he does, but Philip Bloom is a talented professional making a living in a difficult industry. He has also shared a lot of useful information and has raised the profile of DSLR filmmaking. The backlash against him seems largely to be a result of the endless tedious focus (in some quarters) on kit and technology – with little or no reference to the actual craft and technique of filmmaking.

    I don’t care what camera Philip Bloom uses or doesn’t use – it’s his decision and he has every right to pick and choose and say whatever he wants. I do care what films people are making with the amazing technology that’s available to them. It’s so disappointing that a few years down the line the initial excitement of this revolution in filmmaking has come to so little – endless camera tests and reviews, arguments about which is best, 2k or 4k, blah blah blah blah blah.

    • @Alex

      It think it is more than a shovel. It is more like a massive and complex digging machine that allows you to move dirt at extreme rates. In the early days of machinery, they failed often, but it was still faster than man power, so they continued using them, and tech has gotten better.

      The Reds are doing things that other cameras are not. That is why people put up with issues.

      I also disagree with you about the fact that excitement of the revolution has come to so little. I have never seen more creativity and ingenuity than this generation. It may not have lived up to your standards, but I continually meet people that are excited and continually improving.

      Even I dedicate much love to the old canon dslr crowd in my thread on color profiles: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?262094-Adventures-in-the-PSE

      If these forums are not inspiring you, then GET OUT AND INTERACT WITH LOCAL CREATIVES! =) And hopefully that works out.

      Hope you can find motivation and inspiration somewhere.

      • Hi James – sorry, but a camera is a tool. In real terms the developments of the past few years have meant that there’s not a massive difference between the tools available to us as filmmakers. It’s the people in front of and behind the camera, and the story you’re telling that make the ultimate difference.

        As for not being inspired – I come to this website regularly because I’m inspired by what Koo is doing and what he shares. It’s also inspiring that there are so many other sites out there – yours included – which are sharing a massive amount of information. It’s NOT inspiring – in the slightest – that so much creative potential is often wasted on arguments over kit and camera tests. I’m sorry that this opinion seems to have riled you – but hopefully it won’t dent your motivation and inspiration!

        • Well this is a completely different Alex. Wish you had phrased your thoughts this way the first time. Excellent post.

          • Same Alex I’m afraid James. Still not excited by technology over technique!

          • You see how easy it is to get bated into conversations about Technicalities? =)

          • Hey James and Alex, just wanted to drop in and say thanks for a very thoughtful, mature, and useful discussion! Isn’t always the case in the comments section…

  • Geees, if you people spend as much time creating as you do bickering about a hyped up camera, the world would be a better place.
    The amount of crazy comments on here about twitter avatars, scarfs and what who did what is staggering, and only proves what Alex said above.
    Something that really could be exciting has turned into endless test films, pixel peeping, comparing, and bitching. And the numbers of commends here compared to any other posting on NFS just proves that further.
    None of the RED cameras are exciting and neither are the 5D’s, Alexa’s or any other camera for that matter, what you do with it is all that matters.

    • Aha – I can break the habit of a lifetime and agree with someone! Completely right – I’ve got no idea what ‘The Good, The Bad and The Ugly’ was shot on. Or ‘Through a Glass Darkly’. Or ‘Weekend at Bernie’s’. And I couldn’t care less. Great storytelling should always be the foremost concern.

    • There is not a hundred plus different people commenting. It is a few people commenting a few times each. Besides, a true camera operator traditionally knows his tools in and out, and chooses them for a reason. Saying the camera doesn’t matter is a very generalized statement, that glances over some important factors of filming.

      5D’s are exciting! To me.

      If you dislike it that people are talking about “who did what”, then why are you doing the exact same thing by judging and speculating about the behavior of the individuals on this thread?

      • As Michael Winner might say, ‘Calm down dear!’. We all feel passionately about the subject but this alternative viewpoint seems to have got you a little angry. The best solution is always a cup of tea and some scriptwriting… Pen, pencil, laptop – all are acceptable tools for this part of the process.

      • Edit: I used the term “his”, and did not mean to imply women are not camera operators. Some of the best are women. But I hate differentiating male female in this way.

      • Alex, what subject do we feel passionately about? Sorry, I’ve mentioned a couple different things, and I am not sure which one your referring to.

      • thanks for proving my point, whoever you are…

        • Your point is that you are too cool for us nerds. Many people tend to think so. Your work is amazing, btw. I especially like this one: http://vimeo.com/764518 very edgy. I am glad you do not pixel peep. It really pays off. ;)

  • Was the Red One reliable, or was it buggy with crashes?

  • Ramachandra on 12.11.11 @ 8:14AM

    The ONE thing (conveniently) neglected from all this bull***t about poor Phillip’s experience is that no-one has questioned his qualifications, experience nor offerings which are opinionated, lacking in empirical or even qualified / quantified information that actually supports his feeble ramblings and disclaimers.

    For some bizarre reason he is held up as a guru (mostly by inexperienced dilletantes and wannabe’s) which is based on his early adoption of cheap and ill-suited cameras for real productions such as the 1DMk2 & 7D. That he has worked for LucasFilm means little. His “reviews”, hurried and poorly written are apologetic (by his own admission), disjointed, unstructured opinion (“noun: a personal belief or judgement that is not founded on proof or certainty”) premised on appallingly bad organisation, mishaps, execution and judgement.

    Why anyone would believe the credence of a “self-proclaimed DoP” who allows his unsecured camera to be blown into Sydney Harbour (that was the 2ND TIME!) is asking for ignorance personified. That’s plain dumb and amateurish… although an amateur would take faaaar better care of their limited and precious gear. I’ll bet good money he never gets a Release from any of his unsuspecting subjects in his demo street footage. In the 40+ years I’ve been making films I’ve not yet seen anyone so mundane.

    • Amen! Thank you. A last people speaking out to call out a fraud. To call his video montages ‘short films’ is a blasphemy unto itself. Sure he can create a pretty image, so just go back to shooting Christian calendars and leave us all alone.

      Oh and Mr Laforet is probably even worse. Did anyone actually manage to sit through his ‘films’ without wanting to vomit?

    • “early adoption of cheap and ill-suited cameras for real productions such as the 1DMk2 & 7D. ”

      This line says it all about the speaker.

      • I am assuming you have used a 7D on a real production, but even with the work arounds, you have to admit, it is not suited for a production environment, and the crappy codec and no time code is awful in post.

        There are exceptions, and I think it’s great when filmmakers make the best of them (‘Like Crazy’ 2011, shot on 7D? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1758692/ ), but in general they have below industry standard image quality and are ill suited for real productions.

        Maybe you are just referring to the disparity in expectations between you and Ramachandra?

        Anyone with the right skills can do a lot more with a 7D than a novice with an Alexa. And a good story played by great acting, is more important than a good image. Watch a german feature titled “The Edukators” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408777/ that is one of my favorite films from that year. Shot on a Sony PD150, I believe.

        Haha, sorry if I picked o your comment, Moebius22, just wanted to expand on what you touched on. The Canon’s are expensive DSLR’s with great still image capture quality, but their video function is a cheap after thought.

  • Hey Canon, This would be a great (actually the greatest) time to give Mr. Bloom a C300. (and yes I did say GIVE. Not the time to be cheap here. We haven’t much time.) Sure, it still won’t output 4k, but what the hell… it’ll sway a lot of people who are on the fence about your camera after Bloom raves about it. Thank me later…. preferably by hiring me as a part of your crappy PR team.

    • Haha, if they hire you, send everyone here some cameras! Alright, I am going to get up off here. Thanks all that were sincere. Thanks Koo for leaving this uncensored.

      Take care,
      James

  • One more thing…

    thank you also, to all the geeks and engineers that design image making tools. Thank you for your hard work and sleepless nights! You hard work is noticed and very very very much appreciated!

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 11:12AM

    Phillip Bloom has rallied his troops to spit on the shoes of REd. Philip knew this would happen because as an attention whore he knows how to manipulate his base. This is crass opportunism plain and simple.

    I guarantee you though that if RED offered and priced a camera at $3000 Philip would be ignored and trashed in the way he properly deserves for being such a crass opportunist. The only support he’s getting is the troops he’s trained in hid 7D classes.

    The only downside to RED offering a $3000 camera is you’d still have to deal with that dick Jarred Land.

    • I disagree with you, and think you’re a nasty person

    • One of the many random, drive-by, zealots that come up out of the ground when they feel that their God RED has been offended.

    • you are an idiot

    • Blimey!…… dunno, who you are, but I hope you’re not trying to make documentaries… or narratives with any serious comment…. I’m mean, it’s just not gonna work, is it ?

    • Please don’t take this the wrong way… but pms has no place in forming constructive opinions… maybe you should take a break and really think about what it is that you want to say, and how to say it.

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 11:55AM

    The truth hurts Samuel. Nothing I’ve said contradicts what Phillip actually does. Pay careful attention. He tweeted recently he was going to stop tweeting because of what he wrote about RED. he could only hold out for an hour before he tweeted again. Classic example of an attention whore.

    We all want to be loved but constantly asking for it like Philip does feels creepy.

    Look at his response in this thread. He only comments when someone posts his and david finchers name in the same paragraph even if it was disparaging towards him. Just the fact that he and fincher get mentioned in the same paragraph is enough for him to come in and comment. Philip is an attention whore of average shooting ability. TRUTH. His true talent is using social media into manipulating aspiring shooters into thinking he’s giving them useful info.

    And having dealt with JaRED Land I can attest to the truth in that too. And I think just saying you’re a nasty person is childish. Be a man and state your case,

    • Enough of the personal attacks – what’s the point?? All that is really needed is for people to step up and say, ‘here are my films – what do you think?’. Then we can all learn from each other instead of this silliness.

      There’s a great community on here, and obviously people get worked up and passionate about issues from time to time. It is very interesting though that there are so many filmmakers who are expert enough to point out all the defects in the work of others, but don’t put a link to their own work when they’re posting…

    • how this can be a fair reaction to “he didn’t teach me anything” is beyond me
      all I read here is: “he didn’t reply to my comments! only to some other guy’s comments!”

      anyway, my case is: what you stated in your previous comment, and what you’ve posted now, makes me think you’re a nasty person; perhaps if you behaved differently I would think otherwise

    • Bloom and LaForet both prove with their video work that they should stick to non-moving images. Neither has the necessary talent to be anything but a tool of advertisers with lots and lots of money (and, uhm, Rick McCallum).

      • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 12:17PM

        Exactly Lafortes Mobius was amateurish and Philip never moves his camera. Still photographers is exactly what they are.. When Philip started reviewing cameras he never moved the camera when people where screaming for him to do pans so they could see the rolling shutter. He never did it, why? Because that would offend his corporate friends and he ‘d never get the access he need s to run his blog.

    • Hello Sarah. Unlike Samuel, I feel I have a legitimate argument against your post, not necessarily your claim (if that makes sense). Meaning I’m not here to disagree with your opinion over Bloom’s motives or his body of work (which others, NOT YOU have been doing recently), but more so the origin or the source of where your critique comes from. Is it out of hate that so many people look to him for advice? Why is his Tweets under the microscope? Why does it bother you that he posted something on HIS site that got people talking? If you don’t work for RED I would imagine it shouldn’t get that many people upset. But yet it has and I’m having a hard time understanding WHY!?!? Now his one post has snowballed into his body of work and his character being critiqued…rather harshly, might I add. People are now turning his disdain for the higher ups at RED into some questioning his ability and nit-picking at his shorts or whatever. Now he’s an attention whore and other names that not need t be mentioned. All I’m saying is this, if you have a problem with what he does….. it’s simple: DO SOMETHING BETTER! We aspiring filmmakers are simply looking for some good, cheap info that we can’t normally afford. No Film School is a platform we all come to as well as Bloom’s site because well…. WE DON’T HAVE THE MONEY OR TIME TO GO TO ACTUAL FILM SCHOOL!!! If Bloom is breeding hate, misinforming, or misleading us in anyway (which he is, in the eyes of you and countless others). Please, I’m begging you to not direct the energy to attacking him, but to post on your own site some better information for people like me and others to access. I know the first attack of this post will probably be something like “Nobody has time to educate you aspiring f***s!” But yet in still….everyone has time to critique. I’m not attacking you personally, Sarah. I don’t know you, but I just see this type of approach all to often on these sites. Very similar to what I read when Koo decided to purchase a Scarlet-X over the Canon C300… It’s just getting out of control. It’s petty. It’s sad.

      • Sadly, Chuck, yes there often is more heat than light, more style than substance, more ego than skill after film school (real or online). There’s also plenty of time for you to discover this down the road if you do have a professional career. Bloom has been a temporary distraction, by his own design IMHO… Stay open and unjaded as long as you can, and as has been demonstrated in this episode, don’t invest in idols, be they human or mechanical…

        • You cant tell a RED fan boy a mile away. They talk incessantly, in condescending fashion about professional work, yet they provide none of their own. Technology$$$ = professional work to them.

          Challenge their preconceived ideas of truth and they speak of professionalism.

      • wait… Retract: you are now too one of the ones who have piled onto the snowball of new critics of his work post-Red debate… This is getting out of control…

        • Slim, The second (follow up retract) post wasn’t directed at you… I didn’t see your post until after I put that up.

      • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 1:13PM

        Great post Chuck, seriously. Thats the kind of post one looks forward to in a debate instead of the one one slams.

        I guess what it boils down for me is that Philip promotes a way of shooting and reviewing that are anathema to true honest shooting and reviewing. There should be no boundaries when shooting and when reviewing you have to be brutally honest. If like Philip you get a large audience of susceptible minds and those minds get corrupted with his bland shooting and thinking we all as filmmakers or shooters have to deal with it when we cross paths.
        I mean how many landscape shots of trees and brush has he influenced? Come on now.

        And I’m no red fangirl. I dislike the way they handle their promotion of their products. And their arrogant approach to any dissent. When they announced the scarlet It took me two seconds to realize that it wasn’t $9000 or even $14000. It was more than $24000 in reality and when Bloom posts this and everybody applauds his clear thinking on the true cost of a Red when a quick search could have brought them the same info he comes off as a prophet. Sheep like group think in shooting and in reviews that hurt all of us eventually.

        • Sarah Balchik wrote:

          “TRUTH. His true talent is using social media into manipulating aspiring shooters into thinking he’s giving them useful info.’

          Think about the nonsense you are saying in your hate filled rants. This line of argument could be used to attack Koo as well. The information both men provide is a boon to many.

          • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 1:30PM

            “The information both men provide is a boon to many.” Perfect example of sheep like group think. Thanks for that.

          • Amen_Sistah on 12.11.11 @ 1:39PM

            Funny thing about that is Koo buys a RED and gets attacked… right?

          • Bloom gets rid of a RED and gets attacked.

        • Sarah, thank you for not taking my post personally. This type of conversation allows for the indie filmmaking community to grow instead of bicker. I think your follow-up was more unbiased and stated your claim a bit more clearly. Yet in still, the question still looms, if not Bloom, then whom? (Philip you can pay me for the slogan via my paypal account) Who are some other follows that one can seek out on the net that gives advice to indie filmmakers? Personally, I think we all have different styles that we appreciations that attribute to our distinct filmmaking styles… Bloom’s way is one way (that many like myself subscribe to) and now I’m simply asking for other options since his way is being heavily scrutinized…

          • *That we appreciate (sorry for the grammatical error, fellas and fellettes)

          • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 3:51PM

            Chuck you’ll learn a million times more going to any art museum or just walking out your door than you will from Bloom. If not Bloom then whom? is the wrong approach.

          • I’ll answer this one. Dave Dugdale, that’s whom. If you’re new to the DSLR video world, you’ll learn a great deal from Dave.

          • Thanks Steve for answering my question. Thanks Sarah for your add also. My father is an artist, I’ve grown up in art museums. “the If not Bloom…” theme was merely a joke, ma’am. The technical side of filmmaking can’t be learned in an art museum or at least I must have missed the code somewhere between the pastels, oils, watercolors, bronze sculptures, etc… But no big deal, I’m not here to fight, just want to make films. And after all of these damn keystrokes, Steve M. comes along and finally provides a answer to a simple question. Thank you both and happy shooting to you in your next film projects.

          • Sarah Balchik on 12.12.11 @ 10:42AM

            Chuck ,

            You see you made me realize another important point. That Philip has taken the art and made it technical. You can’t walk out your door and learn the technical but so what? What is that Philip can teach you , that you can’t find out in a dozen other ways. I mean theres tons of forums that have a wider spectrum than Philip does if the technical is so critical for you to function.

            Philip also picks from other sites to give you his info like the Prolost pic profile that somebody already mentioned. Philips gift to you is he’s making you think he’s doing you a service but in reality he’s molding you into the same bland videographer he is and teaching you to procrastinate by obsessing over the technical while he makes money teaching about all this technical info thats freely available . Stay away.

            How many musicians have you read a bout that taught themselves the instrument of their choice and in the process found a new sound that they would never have found if they had taken the advice from a tutor. The can apply to a camera too Chuck.

            You can learn the technical in a couple of hours. The people who need a Philip Bloom use it as an excuse to not do any real work.

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 12:08PM

    I guess the 7D class ended and the Bloom fanboys are out tell the world how special he is.

    • Will Gilbey on 12.12.11 @ 1:49AM

      I’ve gotta know, Sarah – what do you actually do? Do you work in the film industry? Your posts seems a little bitter and personal and I’m just keen to know where you’re coming from. Thanks.

  • people, I used to visit bloom’s site on a regular bases, i had a positive opinion of him, which over time changed, his ncreasing commercial nature of his blog and refusal to publish comments that disagree with him or his mission have set me as a bloom refusenik and pissed me off even more when i realised that the picture style he often promoted as his own was really the work of prolost’s stu, but stu being a very down to earth person doesn’t care much.
    what do i think of blooms latest post about the red and his experience. I think he is a big cry baby
    i have never come across anyone professional who cry’s as much as him, he does time and again, when he directed his pop videos, which had been panned critically, he blamed time and equipment.
    he has his fans and they blindly do his bidding for him, i did like him to start with but i find him very much over rated.

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 12:39PM

    To prove my point I’m going to use Philips exact words:

    “I know I am going to get a lot more abuse from writing this but I need to put this to bed and draw a line under it and unless I do this it won’t go away”

    Now if he never tweeted that he got rid of his Epic this whole thing would have never happened. See how easy that would have been, just don’t tweet those words and this never happens. But he did and he did it knowing this would blow up. This has nothing to do with full disclosure, he just can’t help himself because its attention he wants.

    His reviews? How come he praises that they’re balanced? Who wants balanced. If a camera sucks I want him to state it. But he never does because he’d never be able to get these cameras to test. So he gives these “balanced” reviews and the sheep lap it up.

    And honestly if RED offered a $3k camera tell me honestly all you Bloom fanboys wouldn’t jump ship. Look in the mirror.

  • Ewan Thomas on 12.11.11 @ 12:40PM

    Koo, maybe you should have left the comments off this page. A “big cry baby”. Really? Seriously.

  • This comments section is the gift that keeps on giving.

  • ROTFLMAO!!!! This is great!! wonderful entertainment. In a way this is strengthening RED’s base. Based on these comments its like a guy from the Harley Davidson Convention got in a fight with a guy from the anime convention next door. And now the heat is picking up as members of each side starts to get involved.

    Red obviously has the tougher crowd and the Bloom camp are so soft and whiny. Its like Occupy RED.

  • Evan Thomas,
    Can’t you take it….. yeap a cry baby. really, seriously.
    just like your blog you wanna kill the true comments here too.

  • http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?68553-Cannot-adjust-aperture-on-my-scarlet-with-canon-lenses.

    koo, test your scarlet as fast as you can! but keep it secret or sarah will say your great webserie is not good!

    • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 1:38PM

      If REd could just put aside all their side projects like projectors and red rays and stickers and hats and all that other time sucking crap and devote themselves to making the camera 100% solid and finally state OUT OF BETA then they’d have something. As of now its a crap shoot.

  • Freedom of speech in honor, but the most of the people on these Comments doesn’t even have the right to breathe.

    Have a nice day,
    a so far silent reader.

  • Just go out and shoot something,

  • How did you bought your Scarlet? Did you actually had to pay the full $15,515,- in one time? Or do you pay this off per month? If so, how much is it per month? If it’s around.. Let’s say $400,- that means it takes about 37 months to pay this thing off, which is like.. 3 years or so. Is this correct?

    • I actually did some fairly complicated financial finagling involving a new credit card and a balance transfer to an old credit card… both with 0% APR promotions. And some was cash. Of the remaining balance, half of it needs to be paid off in 12 months, the other half over 21 months. I’ll write more about this if folks are interested…

  • Wow, so I see this comments section has gotten a bit out of hand.

    There are way too many personal attacks here to be constructive. I love the comments section, it’s a big reason why I run this site, but I’m going to have to institute some sort of system — NOT moderation — to ensure that folks are not posting with different names and made-up email addresses. Which, by tracking IPs, I can see is going on.

    To all of you who have shared your constructive thoughts and engaged in useful discussions: thank you!

    • Yeah the worst of DVXuser and Reduser has really been out in force on this post, it’s so easy to criticise when you haven’t got the balls to use your own name or even link to your own work.

  • Wow there’s a lot of vitriol flowing today! Too many folks forget that these sites are Blogs that take facts and add OPINION to them. I’m as big a tech geek as the next guy but come on people – they’re just cameras! How about taking some of your passion and putting it on screen by way of creativity and good storytelling? Better yet, why not get angry about something that matters like racism, poverty, inequality etc.? Life’s too short to hate on people because they love one camera more than another.

    It must be driving Andrew Reid of EOSHD nuts that he’s missed the boat on all this controversy! So many lost page views lol

  • BTW, what about films crews of Hobbit/Spider-Man. Do they have similar technical issues too?

  • It’s over!! Bloom knocks out Jannard in the 12th round!! What a fight!! What a fight!!!

    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?68587-The-Case-of-Philip-Bloom

    • Well, I guess in reality, it’s more like Jannard tapped out due to a rear naked choke..

    • Wow.

    • The post has been updated with that…

      No one “wins” here, Diamond Dallas. It’s not a wrestling match… we’re all just trying to make movies.

      • C’mon Koo, Bloom clearly having made Jannard cry “Uncle” means there was a winner. Everyone loves a good fight. Nothing was bruised other than feelings. And no, we’re all not trying to make movies. Some are trying to sell cameras. Si? Yours truly, Diamond Dallas.

      • Well we should just be grateful that both men, are people of integrity. Bloom was honest from the beginning about his experience and didn’t go after it with an agenda. Jannard admitted to a mistake that was blown way out of proportion on many forums. Glad it ended ok, maybe Bloom will once again try RED once they are a little more stable and have a more solid footing in Europe.

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 3:48PM

    Really you think Bloom gets out clean? He showed who he really was and Red in a rare moment showed some class by not airing their laundry. Bloom has no class.

    • Some people just hate.

    • seth.iamfilms on 12.11.11 @ 5:58PM

      Look… If you by some ungodly creation of a chance found residing in this Urth did anything partially useful enough in your life to require what most of like to call sharing, and then with that new found life to live created a film about A Norwegian man’s ball hairs. Something cleverly titled, The Norwegian Man’s Ball Hairs, and then had a influxial wave of people bashing your film, spreading rumors as hateful as “Those aren’t Real ball hairs” to a point where your credibility in the lifestyle in which you had spent years amounting as one you shares now being deemed unsharing, eventually you’d see fit to share the truth as with anything. You’d probably come out and say something to the effect of. “Look guys, The Ball hairs!” and then it would go 2 ways. One, people would rejoice in the silent voice of wonder spewing forth what for some reason people wanted to know about. or two some randoian internettle useless flick of a flat fiat mouth would say. Yea we saw the ball hair film, and we didn’t like it, and now we dont like the fact that your telling us that the ball hairs are real. That in and of itself is most hilarious.

      • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 6:43PM

        Seth learn to write. That was too difficult to get through

        • Hey Sarah, I don’t mean this in a bad way, but if I was your son… I’d drink poison.

        • seth.iamfilms on 12.12.11 @ 10:59AM

          wait… that was too difficult to read and that’s my problem. hahahahahha.. hahahahaha. aaaaahahahahhaha.. seems the tide has turned upon your needs and wants here.

  • I can see most comments on this thread were made from a hater or fanboy/girl point of view. Philip Bloom was a huge eye opener when I first bought my DSLR, but my visits to his blog are decreasing in time, just because I don’t find his posts that useful for my needs right now. Nofilmschool is way more helpful. But I have no strings attached to any blog, as they are all tools for one to use.

    Neither I feel “connected” with any brand of cameras, and if tomorrow another brand released a better camera than the one I have I would purchase it right there. Companies certainly are not emotional about customers, why should we be like that towards them?

    I don’t get all this Canon vs RED – Mac vs PC crap. The companies should be doing all the fighting, but they made it easy, they let their fanboys take that over for them.

    All I want is to make films, I don’t care who make the tools for it. If I prefer a certain brand it is because the product meet my needs and it’s reliable. Period I paid for it, I don’t owe anything else to the company.

    All this “debates” over brands and people has nothing to do with filmmaking and it’s awaste of time.

  • Wow, this turned into a free- for-all quickly! I will say I do agree with Sarah B. On her opinions of Philip Bloom. I won’t however launch a personal attack on him. Let’s just say he is a little to full of himself for my liking, and I too agree, of average talent. I guess the same could be said about me, not the full of myself part, but average talented. It’s just I’m not posting to the world how great I think i am. I think when you do that, you’re open game.

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.11.11 @ 11:37PM

    I hope everyone takes notice of some of these posts that have come my way, like: they shouldn’t breathe , I’d take poison, idiot and make a note of the quality of people you have here. I may have been critical of Bloom and Red but these so called filmmakers I hope never get a chance to put any of their visions within viewing range. Make a mental note, include me , if you wish but the real anger comes from the false idolaters.

    You guys are so easy to get to show your real selves as you stand behind civility. Take a long hard look in that mirror, alas I think those posters a re too dim to see the truth.

  • Enough with the name-calling guys! Let’s pretend we’re all sitting in a real room together.

  • Sarah Balchik = Salah Baker

    • Sarah Balchik on 12.12.11 @ 12:07AM

      Really Seamus you’re going to falsely accuse someone of posting under another name.. If this is any indication of Bloom followers then I’d say he’s corralled the bottom of the barrel and no company should ever give him a camera to test thinking his opinion is going to result in any sales.

    • Salah Baker on 12.12.11 @ 8:33AM

      Excuse me? If I wanted to chime in I would.

  • Sarah, whether Seamus’s accusation of a false name was true or not, which part of his post led you to believe he was a “Bloom follower”? Nothing that I can see; you just jumped to that conclusion – why? Because you can find no other reason for which someone might take issue with you? I think most people who do find it hard to respect your abrasive language and superior tone. You complain of incivility, but since you don’t mind tossing around calls like “jerk”, “false idolaters” and “sheep-like group think” it’s not as if you yourself can lay claim to a civil tongue. Take it a bit easier, huh? It’s not as bad as all that.

    My two cents: if Bloom hadn’t written about his experiences that would have been poor form. Maybe he was attention whoring but who cares? What happened between RED and him was newsworthy and so the blog was justified. Imagine a political reporter getting badgered by a governor and deciding not to write about it because he or she was worried about looking like an attention seeker. Ridiculous. I don’t follow Bloom’s blog as closely as this one, but I check in from time to time and I’m glad it’s there and glad he’s willing to share his experiences (whatever his reasons). I don’t get the venom.

    • Sarah Balchik on 12.12.11 @ 10:28AM

      Lachlan,
      You really find false idolaters and sheep like group think too abrasive, especially for this crowd. Its funny you defend people who posted physical harm as justified yet you jump on me for speaking my mind about Philips motives. See what i mean about group think now? Well maybe not, you just might not have the necessary tools.

  • Sarah can you write me at james@jamesgaodesign.com?

  • Alec Sprinkle on 12.12.11 @ 10:21AM

    Holy tons of comments Batman. Looks like the crew found your page. That’s good … right?

    • Unfortunately not. It looks like the people who comment on youtube videos have arrived. Everyone has an opinion and social media has unfortunately given them a medium to express it. Community would be a lot better off if people just shut up and not say what they think once in a while.

  • I’m not a big fan of Bloom, either. And I agree with many of Sarah’s points (although I visit his blog every now and then because, seeking attention or not, he does post useful stuff sometimes).

    However, the debacle that transpired between Bloom and his Epic showed how flawed RED’s business ethic is sometimes (and it has nothing to do with the fact that they’re a startup. I have seen plenty of startups with excellent service). Jannard and his people (including fanboys) are quite known for conducting themselves in an arrogant fashion, and this is one of the biggest examples (kinda reminded me of a gizmodo blog post about Steve Jobs and a leaked iPhone a week or so after he passed).

    Things like these NEED to be exposed. The fact that Jannard apologized proves that RED messed up, and will hopefully learn their lesson and rectify their attitudes. I do not blame Philip Bloom for posting this, regardless of his motives. I love RED’s image quality, but I refuse to deal with their (highly publicized) bullshit. Until the company develops a healthy business ethic, I’ll keep away from them, personally.

  • Sarah Balchik on 12.12.11 @ 11:40AM

    I find it funny people are constantly disavowing MOTIVE. When did motive become insignificant. Its the subtext to your stories if you filmmakers have any. Without it we cannot find truth. I loo at Blooms actions and I see an opportunist, its as important to state as telling people the % d has tons of moire. And being an opprtunist I can see his reviews and what he says clearly as opposed to accepting what he has to say like a word from God.

    Well, the common reaction would be, don’t read his blog and move on. How can I avoid him when he posts everywhere and I mean everywhere. You cannot turn that guy off.

    • Reading Bloom’s blog is my choice, not yours. I can discern truth on my own, I don’t need your fanatical, hateful, forceful opinion shoved down my throat. Back. The. Fuck. Off.

      Seeing clearly comes from being neutral and unbiased which, clearly, you aren’t.

  • It’s a shame that in the middle of all this we’ve lost sight of something very important and that’s simply that the camera is just one phrase in the whole production dance. It’s hard enough to make anything in the first place but if everyone on set bickered and ranted like the comments on this post then no-one would ever get anything done. The proof is in the pudding and if you’re not very good then no camera will save you.

    • Sarah Balchik on 12.12.11 @ 1:31PM

      Real Original. I think I’ve read that about a million times from other guys wasting their time posting instead of creating. Why aren’t you out there creating now. who said the camera is the only thing that matters. Stop being a cop and go create.

  • Does Phillip Bloom understand a RED workflow? http://blog.facetmedia.com/?p=325

  • Will Gilbey on 12.12.11 @ 1:35PM

    Probably guilty of doing this myself but trying so hard not to – don’t feed the trolls. Confrontation and pissing people off is what they thrive on. I’m now going to do my very best to ignore every post Sarah Balchik ever writes. It may be hard but damn it, I have to try. Cue the name calling.

  • Okay, first time I’ve ever had to do this but we’ll just have to take it as a rite of passage: comments on this post are now closed. The valuable comments are being drowned out by personal attacks and I don’t spend my days trying to share useful information just so people can call each other names. For those of you who chimed in with valuable thoughts, thank you.