April 20, 2012

Blackmagic Design's Cinema Camera Now Available for Pre-order - What Will the Barebones Cost You?

It seems like it was just yesterday that Blackmagic Design's Cinema Camera was announced -- and now it is available for pre-order!  As expected, the camera body will run you $2,995, and the projected availability is July 30.  So how much will you have to spend to get this thing bare-bones hand-held shoot-ready?  And what effect will the Super16-ish sized sensor have on your existing lenses?  Let's see:

Lenses  and Crop Factor / Focal Length Magnifier

The nice thing about this camera, as previously detailed, is that it will accept EF/ZE mount lenses -- so if you have that Canon-EF and Zeiss-ZE glass, or EF mount adapters, you'll be able to save yourself some money.  Otherwise, you can approach it just like shopping for DSLR lenses.

Using a Super16-ish (or Micro 4/3rd-ish) active sensor area of 15.6mm x 8.8mm, you'll have to re-calibrate your perceptions with regards to different focal lengths (i.e the 35mm lens you've used on your 7D will have a smaller viewing angle on the Blackmagic).  By my calculations, the "crop factor" or "focal length magnifier" for the Blackmagic Digital Cinema camera's active sensor area will be 2.4 relative to a full frame sensor camera like the 5D (or 1.5 relative to the APS-C sensor on a 7D/t2i).

So, lets say you want the viewing angle you get from a 50-55mm lens on a full frame camera like the Canon 5DmkIII.  On the Canon 7D/t2i, you would need a 30-35mm lens.  On the BlackMagic, you would need a 20-25mm lens.  Something to consider if you are using existing lenses or thinking of buying new ones.  With a 2.4 crop factor/FLM, folks are going to need to some very wide lenses to achieve wider angles, at which point some of those wide Tokina lenses start looking pretty attractive.  Just how wide can you get before distortion becomes an issue?  I'm sure it will depend on the quality of the glass, and the area of the image.  It'll be interesting to see just what folks find out once they start shooting.

Storage

Unless you're outputting to an external recorder, you'll need to buy a compatible SSD (solid state drive) for on-board recording.  B&H has a few suggestions (when you click on "Accessories" and "Media"), just remember it will need to be in a Mac OS Extended format (you can do the formatting on a Mac or through software like Mediafour MacDrive on a PC).  Looking at the prices, it looks like you'll have to put down between $280 and $965 for something between 256GB and 480GB.  You can go for smaller drives, but considering that shooting in RAW at 24fps will get you 30 minutes on a 256 GB drive, I don't see why you would.

Hand holding...

Wondering about that nifty handle thing-a-majig?  You can get it for $181 dollars.  I could see that being helpful, although I'd probably go for something shoulder mounted if I was really needing to do something handheld.

Barebones Price

So, assuming you buy one prime lens, a basic 256 GB drive, and (what the heck) the handles.  You'll have something you can shoot with for between $4500 and $5000.  Not bad!  But what's even nicer, is that for folks who already have DSLR rigs and lenses, they should be able to knock that down to the price of the body and SSD (so around $3300-$4000 depending on how much storage you get).  Who would have thought we'd have a ready to shoot 2.5K raw shooting camera in that range?

Are you planning on buying it?  What do you consider a barebones rig?  What would it cost you?  Are you debating between this camera and a 5dMkIII or D800?

[*Update*:  I decided to simplify and clarify the section on lenses/crop factors -- some folks were getting lost in the jumps from the 7D to 5D, back down to BMD CC.  Understandably so!  (It makes more sense to go from largest to smallest.)  Also -- updated the sensor comparison image.  As Marco points out in the comments, one could easily call it "4/3"-ish!  But I like Super16-ish :) ]

Your Comment

178 Comments

I'm sticking with my Digital Bolex

April 20, 2012

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Javed

joke?

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

Yes: the Digital Bolex IS a joke.

April 21, 2012

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FabDex

Still have not seen any original files for download straight from the camera (and I'm not talking about youtube or vimeo web recompressed footage). Why the fuck would you buy a camera you've never seen the footage from. No one is talking about the IQ from the sensor. If it's shit, none of the file formats will make a difference. Would be nice if they gave DxO optics a pre-production unit to test.

April 20, 2012

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Look how many people put down great money on the Bolex - a camera not even in production yet!

April 23, 2012

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You probably will also have to upgrade your hard drives to have enough space to store and edit all that raw data.

April 20, 2012

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john jeffreys

Only if you shoot RAW. ProRes (Apple) or DNxHD (AVID) are great formats to shoot if you want compressed footage.

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

for me at least, even a prores 422 workflow will require massive hard drive changes :/ I have 20GB left on my main internal and 200GB left on my external

April 21, 2012

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john jeffreys

I think this will take EF-S lenses, so the Canon 10-22 (which has remarkably low distortion and quite good optics overall) will be akin to the 24-70 range on FF. 17-50 EF-S zooms will be like 50-150 tele zooms. 24mm primes will be your "normal" eye-view lens. And all of these are faster lenses for the price than you could get for FF formats, although the sensor will harvest far less light and have not as narrow a DoF.

I am tempted to pre-order one of these, but am not in a particular rush since there will apparently be several fine cameras released this year. The SSD-based storage and direct-to-ProRes is awesome. The whole system is very well thought out though I want to know more about powering the unit (Battery grips? The 2 hour internal battery is not removable?). I think Blackmagic have established a watermark here in price/features and when they come out with a larger sensor version and everything starts working well I think the industry will have to follow with massive price reductions and elimination of proprietary nonsense like the RED SSDs.

April 20, 2012

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Peter

It would make sense for the camera to take EF-S lenses with the smaller sensor, but everything points to it being an EF mount...

April 21, 2012

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MRH

EF and EFS are the same mount different field of view in lens so that the EFS doesn't cover FF completely. Same mount different glass.

April 27, 2012

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Dietrich

Not yet entirely convinced that "everything" is well thought out until it gets some usage in the field. Also, what's the go with the lens mount? Doesn't look like you can bolt a different one on (like a PL mount or MFT mount). No reason they couldn't have finished a generic mount place closer to the sensor so that we can choose our own. I hope I'm wrong.

April 21, 2012

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I've seen rumors regarding a 4/3 lens adapter. I'll be sitting on the sidelines with my GH2 until that happens.

April 20, 2012

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Eddy

you can't adapt EF to M43... You need to hope they have different lens mount options or swappable mounts.

April 21, 2012

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Markertek has it for cheaper...

April 20, 2012

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I can't afford it, but if I could there is still one thing I have mixed feelings about - how it looks. It just looks like a toy, and if you were to show up to a shoot with that it honestly doesn't look all that impressive.

You can't attach any monitors to it (touch screen) and overall to the ignorant client it looks like something you could pick up for $200 off of Ebay.

April 20, 2012

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Tyler

Bury it inside a huge mattebox (those are cheap nowadays) and it will instantly look dressed for success. The SDI out will drive a monitor, you have to control the camera on its own body isn't unusual and touchscreen interfaces are nice and quiet.

April 20, 2012

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Peter

I may be wrong, but from what I heard it couldn't have an external monitor.

Or I just mis-understood, it was a quick video from NAB so yeah.

Also, that crop factor annoys me. I hate crop factors. Argh. Oh well.

April 20, 2012

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Tyler

Yes, you can use the SDI out for an external monitor

April 20, 2012

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Ryan

HD-SDI out and Thunderbolt will both be capable of monitoring. (Though thunderbolt exact functionality remains to be seen)

April 21, 2012

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Thunderbolt will power BlackMagic Ultrascope and Media express software.

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

*Sigh* So what!? Are you shooting to impress colleagues/clients on set or to produce great images? I do have a matte box, but the only time I've used it was when I rented it out to someone in dire need of impressing a client, just like you. He didn't need the filters (indoors), just to make the package look more impressive... IMHO, it's just plain silly...

April 21, 2012

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Oh, I forgot...while everyone has been picking apart/judging/questioning/critiquing all the other features of the camera DR, flexibility in post, codecs, resolution, inputs/outputs, color space...you're the first person I've seen worry about the important factor of how cool it may or may not make you look.

I think you've taken the old Canon/Agassi slogan, "image is everything" and totally misinterpreted it.

April 30, 2012

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Daniel Mimura

Oops! Grr...I don't get where these comments get posted, sometimes. That was not for Richard, like it looks. It's for Tyler.

April 30, 2012

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Daniel Mimura

& remember you can shoot to ProRes or DNxHD on this puppy. I would only shoot Raw when I'm looking for something major in post.

April 20, 2012

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Tyler, attach a monitor via the HDMI out. Put a matte box on it, and rails. You'll need a follow focus anyway. Presto, big time look.

Or just put it in a cage.

As a RED owner, I prefer the aesthetic BMD is going for with this cam.

April 20, 2012

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There is NO HDMI out. But you can use the SDI for a monitor. They also make EVFs with a SDI loop-through so that you can have both..

April 21, 2012

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c.d.embrey

Sorry, SDI out.

April 20, 2012

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I'm really intrigued by this camera, but I'm cautious because it still seems too good to be true, as if there has to be something they aren't talking about that is bad. I really hope this is as good as it looks. I'm going to wait until the reviews and test shorts start rolling in this summer, and if it proves itself as a good camera, I'll almost definitely be getting one.

April 20, 2012

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Anton

My point exactly. If BMD wants to make sure people don't hesitate pre-ordering, they should release some raw footage for us to play with and give some blogs the opportunity to play with the camera. If it is THAT good, they have nothing to hide...

April 21, 2012

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I'm digging the raw capabilities, DSLR have no range and suffer for it.

Only think I don't care for is the touch screen, looks like a giant Iphone.

April 20, 2012

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But the ability to add metadata during the shoot is plain revolutionary and a huge timesaver in post!

April 21, 2012

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I had this very question about the crop factor and lenses and then bam, an article answers my question. Damn, this sites good.

April 20, 2012

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Jason

The article says that the "Cinema Camera features a Super16-ish sized sensor" which in reality, the sensor fits right in the middle of Super 16mm and Micro 4/3rd. So larger than Super 16mm, but smaller than 4/3rd. For a larger comparison of all sensor formats, from 1/3" to Full Frame 35mm, I created one for my article on Creative Cow: http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/is-the-new-blackmagic-cinema-cam...

April 20, 2012

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Marco, you are absolutely correct! Which is why I threw in the all important "-ish" ;) I think folks use Super16 as a shorthand to describe the sensor because they are comparing it to other larger sensor formats like APS-C, or Super 35mm, giving folks a rough sense of how large the sensor is. I threw that image in just for relative scale, but you are right, the sensor should be somewhere in between the Super16 rectangle and the Micro 4/3"(since Super16 is 12.5mm x 7.4mm, compared to the BmD CC's 15.6mm x 8.8mm). Great article, btw!

April 20, 2012

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Ah yes, the "-ish"! On that token, I'll say 4/3rds-ish, LOL! ;-) No worries.

Just another note if you don't mind me saying: As you referred to, if you wanted to shoot around, say, a 50mm lens equivalent in 35mm world, I'd use a 20mm or 24mm lens (preferably my 24mm f/1.4L). But I'd be shooting in the center sweet spot of the lens, without the wide distortion you mentioned (especially using EF as opposed to EFS lenses). Also no edge softness or vignetting. Realistically, I think the 24mm f/1.4L will probably look rather nice on it as my 50mm f/1.2L replacement. And my 35mm f/1.4L will then be my 85mm f/1.2L replacement! Of course, I wont know until I get my Cinema Camera to start testing on. But from what I've been seeing, I think my Canon L set is going to be very juicy on this camera. Can't wait!

And thanks for the kudos on my article. Much appreciated!

April 21, 2012

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In considering this purchase, it's the Resolve/Ultrascope addition that pushed me over to the "buy" side of the fence.

April 20, 2012

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Eric Emerick

http://vimeopro.com/johnbrawleytests/blackmagic-cinema-camera/video/4058...

Thats pretty darn good skin tone - even Vimeo compressed and at 720p

DSLRs don't look like that.

I preordered - it can only look better at RAW 1080 and with future upgrades.

April 20, 2012

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Jordan Carr

Wrong. The blackmagic's sensor is somewhere in between super 16 and m43.

April 20, 2012

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Chet

And for everyone complaining about hard drive space, or any trouble they may encounter with the raw workflow...DON'T BUY ONE. For some of us it doesn't even cross our mind and we're ready for it. It's nothing.

April 20, 2012

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Chet

Or just use DNX compression.

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

Yeah. Just buy a raw capable camera and opt to use compression.

April 21, 2012

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Chet

DNX or ProRes is nothing like avchd or the canon crap people are used to - those files hold up well.

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

Yeah that crop factor makes me a little apprehensive. I've dealt with the GH2's, and that's as small as I can go really with my existing lenses. If you need a wide shot but can't pull back far enough, its already much needed for m43, so good luck with that.
The other thing that bothers me is the ergo, and the fact that I can't swap batteries and it internal lasts about 2 hrs only? Don't forget to add to that number a battery belt that can power the thing handheld/shoulder mounted.

April 21, 2012

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Joseph

Sigma makes 8-16mm zoom and there are tons of 10mm and 11mm and 12mm options - no "very" wide but enough for establishing shots.

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

You forgot battery.
how about this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/503090-REG/Tekkeon_MP3450_MP3450_m...
it's 8.3 x 2.3 x 17.3 cm and the camera is 16.6cm by 11.cm x 12.6cm
and this to hold it
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/598008-REG/BEC_BEC_TEK_BEC_TEK_Mou...

April 21, 2012

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Andres

I think you need to look a bit left field, this takes ANY battery in a large range of voltages.
12v lithium 6.8ah off ebay are only $25 AUD so prob cheaper if you are in the states. Have an old cordless drill? connect it up! doing a shot out the back of your car? straight into the cig lighter. In an emergency you could run it of 10 AA batteries for crying out loud. I am super impressed!

I think the best thing about this is the openness of the design, Standard voltages, Standard lens, Standard SSD even standard workflow and file formats.

If I had $3k I would get this over a 5Dmk 3 and stay with my 5dmk2 for stills.

April 21, 2012

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Unfortunately, it's closer to a M43 sensor, not S16.

I say unfortunately because if you could adapt S16 lenses (which can be gorgeous AND cheap), you would have severe vignetting. If it were closer to S16 you could get away with it and have some very nice glass for cheap.

April 21, 2012

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ISO - Why aren't we talking about this?

Good stuff:
I'm super excited about this camera. I feel like I have already been benefited by it before anyone's even bought one. Why? simply because of the big ass hole this created in the fence of the existing marketing paradigms of companies who seek to sell video cameras to people like me. Black Magic Design fired a shot... and they hit something big. The innovation and competition of the market is going to a new level, like it did with the 5D. This camera has game-changer potential.

Bad Stuff:
Now that we see the potential here, why on earth would this game-changer have ONLY THREE steps of ISO???

Is there something to understand here that I don't get? Is there another type of gain control or something?

It seems rather odd and debilitating to me. And I'm not even talking about wanting to go HIGHER than 1600 ISO. I use the range of ISO selections on my 60D heavily to manage the noise/depth of field of my images. I've been told that the BMD camera has been finalized and that the ISO settings might change. In my mind, the ISO range currently available on the camera seems terribly out of step with the rest of camera.

Someone clear this up for me and explain how this isn't as much of an issue, please.

April 21, 2012

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You obviously have never shot Red / Alexa / Phantom etc that you shoot almost exclusively at a native ISO.

Same goes for this cam and because it shoots RAW you push/pull ISO in post production. And since they claim (seems true) around 13 stops of DR - you will have plenty of latitude to work with.

Remember that it is really only the cheezy DSLR folks that shoot one scene at ISO 200, another at ISO 1600 then back again to ISO800. Then when someone watches the footage they see different amounts of grain, sharpness, contrast, color, dynamic range....nothing matches and everything is a mess.

The idea behind a lot of Cinema Cameras is that you LIGHT and LENS your shots. Not tweak with ISO and wonder why NOTHING matches when you get your footage on your timeline.

(journalism and available light nature shoots are different - just rent a C300 for those)

Make sense?

Even when shooting film RARELY would a director use more than a few different film stocks - consistency is very important. You never want to take your audience out of the film and make them think..."yuck someone changed a camera setting."

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

One interesting fact about the Cheezy 5D3 is there is only one stop of delievered DR difference between ISO 100 and ISO1600, instead of the 4 one would expect. This is due to readout noise making ISO100 worse than it should be, rather than ISO1600 being so special. But the 5D3 does offer terrific low-light and shallow DoF vs. most anything else, should you be willing to suffer the soft resolution.

The 5D3 and this BMD camera would make a nice combination in some ways, but this camera and a FF variant of it (one has to imagine they are just looking for a proper sensor at this point) would be a better duo, DSLRs be damned.

April 21, 2012

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Peter

True about the 1 stop of DR - but NOT true about sharpness or color. So it still doesn't look good.

As for a compliment - yup you are on to something ! But getting the 2 to match in post? Tricky. You might have better skills than I. I doubt I could do it.

I once owned both the Ikonoskop a-cam D2 (similar to this BMCC) and a Canon 5DMK2. Hated the Canon look and could never get it to rival the film look of the CCD from the Ikonoskop.

:)

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

Excellent point! Thank you.

April 21, 2012

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Just a difference in workflow between raw and demosaiced formats. For most cameras ISO is just selecting which portion of its sensors dynamic range to keep and what to discard. In other cases it's apply a combination of digital gain and noise reduction. Raw allows for all that to be done post-shoot. That is why it makes sense to find a cameras native ISO, so that you can use the maximum dynamic range of the sensor thereby giving you the most data In the raw stream.

The infusion of any ISO setting on a raw cam is for only for preview purposes on the monitor, if going out to prores etc, or for later reference in the metadata.

You are probably more concerned about low light capabilities than ISO since that is how it translates in nonRaw cams. Check out the sample videos linked to above on Vimeo. That are some great examples of low light shooting.

April 27, 2012

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Dietrich

SSD drives, just like Sony SxS cards, Panasonic P2 cards and RED's overpriced CF cards,are just a cost of doing business. If you can't afford to play in that market, buy an FS-100 (SD cards) or a C300 (normal CF cards).

April 21, 2012

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c.d.embrey

You're suggesting people to buy a $16k C300 if they can't afford the SSD market? LOL.

April 21, 2012

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Chet

hahahahahahahahaha

April 21, 2012

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kevin

Your math makes no sense.

(You forgot to mention the Sony F65...)

April 21, 2012

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FabDex

You seem to lack a sense of humor or a sense of the absurd (ridiculously incongruous).

April 21, 2012

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c.d.embrey

Pre-ordering the hell out of this little sweetie.

April 21, 2012

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Natt

Sure you could use a Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 for some things, but where do you find 7mm to 25mm T/1.8 primes in EF/EF-S mount ???

April 21, 2012

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c.d.embrey

Sigma has 8mm-16mm
Sigma has 10-20mm
Tokina has 11-16mm F2.8
Canon has 10-22mm
Tokina has 12-24mm
and lots of fish eye options if you don't mind distortion

The small sensor will limit "extreme" wide shots - ie those under 24mm but users of this camera will just have to buy lighting equipment to compensate for the slower f-stops.

Remember though that in cinema, wide shots are "establishing" shots and are 99% tripod and bright light anyway.

The "advantage" of this camera is that users will be able to shoot "normal" 50mmish FOV shots of actors with enough DOF to not have to rack focus much - big bonus.

Cheers!

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

And you can always rent one of these guys from borrowlenses or lensrentals.com

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/721926-REG/Zeiss_1839_792_LWZ_2_Li...

YUM!

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

Does Raw automatically suggest 444 color space? Is this true raw? meaning you can change everything in post like iso, wb, etc (like on red) or is it just a 12 bit file you can adjust the thresholds on? Also a plus, many lenses will become macro lenses :D

i use premier pro on a PC, how well (if at all) do the compressed formats edit on that platform?

April 21, 2012

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mike

RAW is RAW. It's what the sensor gets (more or less, since WB since to be embedded). The 444 terminology does not apply exactly here.

You'll get all the data the 2,5K single chip gets. If you NEED to translate it to x:x:x terms, with proper debayering it would yield a true 1,75K 4:4:4 resolution.

April 21, 2012

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Álex Montoya

I read somewhere that the WB is baked/set into raw, meaning it's not flexible in post, a little strange I thought, can anyone shed light on this
thanks

April 21, 2012

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kuban

Damn, so guys on here are spoiled. Either stick with a dslr, but the BMD camera, or buy an expensive camera. Be happy that you have that middle option now. Some of these comments are like saying I would date Beyonce, but only if she had Angelina's lips, and J Lo's butt, then I might date her.

April 21, 2012

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Ryan

Posted in the wrong place

April 21, 2012

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Ryan

I like Beyonce and J lo.. Don't know about Angelina J

April 21, 2012

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canon

Spot on Ryan

April 22, 2012

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Lliam Worthington

No it is the opposite.
White balance is not baked into True Raw like Black magic.

Compressed versions of Raw like RED and others are different from True Raw.

April 26, 2012

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sammy

I'm getting a different sum on the debayer. You should definitely be able to get over 2k after debayer with this camera...unless I am completely wrong.

April 21, 2012

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Jared Caldwell

Depends on the demosaicing algorithm. I calculate based on 70%, at 75% the raw 2.5k debayers to a resolution of exactly 1920 pixels while 80% would get you exactly 2k.

2k isn't realistic (if even theoretically possible?) and as far as I'm prepared to argue, debayered resolution from this camera is likely to be just below HD.

April 21, 2012

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nobody

The math is wrong. You have to multiply 2.5k by the vertical resolution (1300+ something I think). THEN you take about 75% of THAT number. Then compare that to 1929x1080, and you will see the resolution is much higher than 1080p/2k.

April 23, 2012

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Jared Caldwell

I'm sure it'll look great whatever but if I've been calculating it wrong can you show your math? RED are on record as saying that their 4k demosaics to 3.2k (chroma), they claim around 78% effective resolution.

http://www.google.com/search?q=(4+%2F+100+*+78)

For the BMD.

http://www.google.com/search?q=(2560+%2F+100)+*+78

April 24, 2012

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nobody

Hi Alexi
I just listened to fcxguide's nab podcast, I think this is what they said referring to Black Magic Cam, it records RAW Log, or Log RAW which isn't raw as we know it, that might explain why WB is baked into the image.
check it out, I may have got this wrong

April 21, 2012

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kuban

Hi Alexi
I just listened to fxguide’s nab podcast, I think this is what they said referring to Black Magic Cam, it records RAW Log, or Log RAW which isn’t raw as we know it, that might explain why WB is baked into the image.
check it out, I may have got this wrong

April 21, 2012

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kuban

The sensor data is passed through log circuit. ProRes and DNxHD are pulled from an appropriate segment of the curve while RAW uses the full curve. Despite all the questions -- it's RAW.

As I remember, Color Balance isn't defined. Of course, a LUT may generates the monitor image and so there may be a WB switch that becomes metadata.

Works just like other CinemaDNG cameras. Just import into AE (export as ProRes 12-bit RGB 4444) or import into Premiere.

"The shallow DoF is still in there with the right lens combo, friends." At the correct aperture. Yes, all this "I can't make a movie without a BIG chip camera" is just plain silly.

April 27, 2012

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Steve

Also, given that this camera is touch screen driven and heavy on meta data entry, it would be nice if they also produced an app for mobile and tablet devices to enter this in without having to go through menus on the camera. it would be even nicer if there was built in wifi and you could do wireless video to an ipad like the cube....but thats just being greedy :P

April 21, 2012

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mike

what i'd like to know how much the perspective distortion truly affects if the camera has to be "moved" due to cropped view? If someone has both 7D and 5D could the shoot some test pictures with similar framing.

For example shoot a photo with 24mm lens on 5D and then 15mm lens on 7D, don't move the tripod between. If you used 15mm lens on 5D, you'd need to move camera closer to get the same framing and this would really bring out the perspective distortion.. so 7D is actually shooting from longer distance to target than that lens on 5D would be shooting to get the same frame... so will this give us a picture that is similar to 24mm lens on 5D as the camera's distance to the target is exactly the same???

April 21, 2012

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sebasti

Just shoot a photo with your existing camera and crop it in Photoshop.

April 21, 2012

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Andrey

I don't get your question. A 24mm on full frame and a 15mm on a 1.6 crop will give identical framing at the same distance to subject. The only difference is depth of field. Perspective is entirely based on distance to subject and FOV. If your FOV is the same, and your distance is the same, your perspective is the same.

April 21, 2012

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Luke

Well you pretty much answered it even though you didn't get the question. The article in its previous wording said that what you get with wider lenses cropped isn't the same. Basically it hinted that when shooting with ultra wide lenses and a cropped sensor some of that proportional distortion would still be there... therefore i wanted someone owning cameras with both sensor sizes to shoot an all defining answer to this question.

April 22, 2012

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sebasti

with a crop factor of 2,4 and uncompressed video, this camera isn´t atractive at all for me. that doesn´t make any sence. who should use such a cam. 250gb for half an hour? for indy filmer? what? hte red epic in 5k mode doesn´t even do a quater of this data rate. and a super 16mm sensor is way to small. for me even the micro 4/3 is too small. i don´t understand what the developers of this camera where thinking, to develope a camera in the price range for indys and a workflow which not even peter jackson could afford. video must be compressed. there´s no way around...

April 21, 2012

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ben

If you put Tokina 11-16 lens on the, with 11mm at front you are pretty much covered in the wide end.. that's 7D or FS100 with 16mm lens, so far i haven't shot video with anything wider than that, sure there are situations you might want more not denying that.
You don't need to record RAW.. you can also do ProRes or DNxHD. I recorded prores 422HQ with ninja and FS100. 120gb takes in 70minutes.
S16 could be small if you like shallow D.O.F, also little worried of its low light capabilities. But these days it seems that the trend is to shoot with 5DmkII and lenses capable of doing 1.2/1.4 aperture just to get shallow D.O.F like that would be the only thing that makes your movie cinematic.. kinda silly.. i think most of the cases people step down as controlling the focus would simply be too hard without professional puller. This camera is not optimized for 3D due to lack of sync but I can still see people using it for that, and for that shallow depth of field doesn't really work as it can feel strange due to the way how our eyes work.

April 21, 2012

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sebasti

As a 1st AC, I can tell you that working with the 5dMkII is really hell when it comes to focus pulling. It's possible though with a 3 man camera crew because each person is focused on their own job (framing, focus, etc.) I shoot all of my videos with my GH2 as the sole operator, but the smaller sensor makes doing all the jobs much easier. If this camera is aimed for the indie market, it'll be harder to get shallow DOF but the convenience of having a smaller sensor will make up for it. (fewer crew, harder to screw up the focus during a shot) Plus, whoever said Super16 isn't "cinematic"? As far as I know, we've been shooting more films with that format than we ever did with VistaVision or anything close to a full frame sensor.

April 26, 2012

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I shot a low budget feature on 16mm and nothing was better for us with our super small lighting package...and the fact that we didn't always have an AC...and if we did, they weren't exactly the geniuses (professional) AC's are.

But...that being said, I remember the director and producer occasionally being really impressed with certain scenes, and I couldn't articulate it at the time, but when it looked "like a real movie!" (director and producers comment, not mine), it was when the focus was the most shallow. It's something I noticed re-watching the film years later. The shallow depth low light scenes (with longer lenses), with more close ups of people instead of wider establishing shots are when the film looked it's best.

It's not just b/c bigger film planes have a shallower depth of field...it's b/c apparent grain is lessened significantly with a shallower depth of field. When the focus is really deep, it really looks grainier even when you're using the same stocks and lenses as when you have a shallower depth of field. (Note: this apparent sharpness applies just as much digitally as on film).

April 29, 2012

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Daniel Mimura

Sebasti, I don't think the trend is to shoot at 1.3 to get a shallow depth of field...it's more of a consequence...it's just that when you're shooting a low budget without a lot of lights, upsizing to a super-35 (or greater) sized chip means your depth of field is smaller. The popularity of the format took off b/c of that shallow depth of field...but there is a huge problem to this...when a big movie crew shoots in 35mm, they have the budget to light for it! People that used to shoot on 1/4" or 1/3" DV, super16 and 4/3rds...etc...now can shoot with the bigger sensor size...but they don't have the lighting to pull it off. (It's also really hard for the AC's, often completely unrealistic.) If I remember right, Stephan Burum lit Prague to a T4 at night (anamorphic) for Mission: Impossible 1. There were buildings literally a mile or more away lit to T4. It was some kind of record of cabling, I think. But...it was 'scope at night...Burun still wanted enough stop for the actors...you still want to see them in their environments...this is what's missing by this fast lens, fast large sensor shooting.

April 29, 2012

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Daniel Mimura

You might not choose to work with this camera, but tot think media or sensor size is a bottleneck for independents is frankly ridiculous. And what PJ has to do with it I have no idea.

April 21, 2012

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Lliam Worthington

um....it records to ProRes as well.

April 21, 2012

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Hummer

It's not super 16. It's closer to m4/3.

April 26, 2012

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Tzedekh

Since, in terms of editing workflow, I'm on PC (cuda cards + better value for money) rather than Apple (IMHO the best gadget company in the world), it sounds a bit cumbersome having to format the SSD to extended MacOS. Hopefully BMD will make this a very easy process...

I truly believe their approach of adding metadata in-camera is truly revolutionary and deserves following from all other camera makers.

Other than that, I think I do want to wait until some more test videos and/or tutorials appear, before commtting. That may mean that I'll have to join the back of waiting queue, as I expect this bby to sell like hot cakes.

April 21, 2012

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Hi everyone, I though that maybe guys from Blackmagic will read this , so here´s what I want to say about this cam:

First I want to say I´m very happy to see a camera in DSLR price range that shoots raw video , but as we all know.. there is no such thing like a best camera .. every camera is good in specific way .. and also as this camera is in one way revolutionary... in second way it has also its flaws whitch can dissapear till the cam starts shipping..
As I´m very interested in this cam.. I´ll write some suggestions that would probably force guys like me to buy it this year...

1. first thing is about crop factor/dof..
yes I would like to have S35mm senzor or nothing smaller than GH2 but the more I shoot the more I think that it´s more important to have subject in focus than out of focus.. a 2,4x crop is not that bad many of you are now thinking about how to get wide shot on this cam with your asp-c or FF canon lenses.. but I think Blackmagic should seriously think about making a m4/3 mount .. remember the crop factor is 2x so your wideangle pannasonic 7-14mm (14-28 in 35mm) will be (17-34mm in 35mm) is that wide enought for you? I think it should be more than enough!
next dof.. I see that many of indies like to shoot wide open on their 5D´s because it´s cool , but I think that good f-stops for good focusing on full frame (picture full frame) are from f4-f8 .. only kids are hunting with f1.8 on 5D because it looks cool.. so and what about GH2? I want the same dof as 5D .. so I´ll probably shoot with fast primes f2-2,8 prime will give me same dof as f4-f5,6 so if a m4/3 primes would have original mount on this cam.. you can use
wide lenses: panasonic 7-14/ olympus 9-18 / olympus 12mm f2 / noktor 12mm f1.6
mid-telephoto primes or zooms: panasonic 14mm f2.5/ nokton 17,5mm f0.95/ panasonic 20mm f1.7/ panasonic-leica 25mm f1.4/nokton 25mm f0.95/ panasonic 14-140mm
portrait lenses: olympus 45mm f1.8
m4/3 system solves the wideangle lenses problem..and also the dof should not be problem because of the fast lenses.. you don´t need to stop down those lenses ! except nokton and noktor they are all sharp wide open!

2. next thing is for me resolution and codecs
uncompressed raw is nice thing..but many of us doesn´t like a situation where after 30min I have full 256gb ssd
even red epic has compression options , so adding a 2:1/ 3:1/ 5:1 raw compression would be verry welcomed solution for more recording time .. and also for faster frame rates.. slowmotion is a must have feature so I would like to have 1080/50p raw with compression 2:1 or 2,5:1 .. i would like to see this function also on prores and DNxHD codec .. I think this would be a big plus for this camera.. 1080/50p is now a standard for me and even with a little compression (which would be still better than epic´s 3:1 compression) footage would be still a lot gradable and useable for pro work.. people would get more frame rates, more space more options .. they could choose what they need more.. to push footage in post or to have more space and fps

So that´s my thinking about this little miracle..i think m4/3 mount is the best solution for this camera because of the similar senzor size.. add overcranking options for slowmotion in 1080p or 2,5k and people will love you..
I really want to buy this camera but these two things are keeping my hands out from it .. I think it´s nothing impossible for you guys and I hope you will think about it .. Some things that I would also like to see are electronic nd filter and battery grip for this baby , or some kind of dslr grip that would get this little box an ergonomic feel in hand .. So guys pleas think about it.. I love resolve.. I want to give you my money but this camera needs few more tweaks to be perfect .. I´m wishing you the best and I apologize for my english !

April 21, 2012

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matt

These flaws are the reason why they can make it that cheap.

April 21, 2012

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AlexKarr

sorry but I think giving a new mount option and a firmware update that gives more fps and compression is nothing impossible for a company that works with codecs and software

April 21, 2012

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matt

More fps and compression needs more power. It's hardware, not firmware.

April 21, 2012

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AlexKarr

you´re right.. I hope something can be done in this way

April 21, 2012

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matt

Yes i will buy one and I will enjoy the benefits of the s35 in regards to focus. 26mm with my Tokina 11-16 will be fine. It's distortion is pretty damn good. Wanting to scrap the power of RAW so you can save a little money on media is a crazy trade off and a very strange way to view a camera which is so revolutionary BECAUSE it offers raw. M4/3 ok, I get it. But to then expect something already so incredibly disruptive in price and specs to have the slow motion, for less than the price of a 5D? People are insane.

April 21, 2012

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Lliam Worthington

Im thinking of this camera, and the way Im gonna shoot on it, as a hybrid 16mm camera but definitely not expecting a 35mm DSLR.

April 21, 2012

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shaun wilson

I read a lot about sensor sizes. Please explain me. The Alexa uses a super 35 mm sensor. Output: 1080p. This BM camera has a super 16mm sensor. Output 2,5. I don't understand. Is the image of the Alexa downscaled? Why doesnt BM uses bigger sensors?

April 21, 2012

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John

The Alexa has a 3.5k sensor and debayers to 1080P in camera, the BM camera has a 4/3", 2.5k sensor which can be recorded raw but demosaics to just under HD resolution.

April 21, 2012

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nobody

One aspect I like about this camera is that its made by a software company, meaning if you can work around the limitations - sensor size, need of a V-Lock battery rig to run in the field, big ass storage issues (I can live with this)- the added plus is that there are established workflow options included in the package - especially no proprietary codecs to deal with, an industry standard software to grade/process, and if its anything like their software, the camera will (hoping here) actually "work".

And... we didn't get our hopes up by a company that promises us amazing technology who then takes years to finally release it and at 6 times the original price (3k for 3K ring a bell?).

April 21, 2012

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shaun wilson

I hope there will be some update so my 27 iMac can work with resolve. For the moment it's not compatible and keeps crashing my computer.

April 21, 2012

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AlexKarr

Whats the issue? Might be able to help.

April 21, 2012

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shaun wilson

Well I can open the software but when i'm loading anything it crashes (not only the soft, everything).
I've read the 2009 iMac card is not compatible with resolve lite.

April 21, 2012

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AlexKarr

Resolve needs nVidia hardware to run. Probably want nothing less than a 560.

April 21, 2012

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Travis

Just download the Lite version and test it for yourself, that's the easiest way. :)

April 21, 2012

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Chris

uh?

April 21, 2012

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AlexKarr

Resolve WILL run on an iMac. I'm doing it right now. however, its possible your older machine may not. you should check that you have current / correct versions of everything. is does work *IF* the config is correct

April 22, 2012

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I use Resolve lite on a 2009 iMac 24" sometimes (just before stupid Apple released the 27" for the same price... yeah), and it runs perfectly. It doesn't render what I see though. The grade always renders quite a bit darker. Anyway, that's an nVidia GT 130 512mb (quit laughing at me). Resolve is very video card picky, and if you got the Radeon in your '09 27" that's probably the reason.

September 5, 2012

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For all the belly aching, either it works for you or it doesn't. If Raw is attractive to you, touch screen with meta data, Resolve color correction software with the nodes(beautiful feature), then lets Rock n' Roll. (keep in mind the software alone is a little under $1000) This camera is a B and C camera or an A camera for those wanting to shoot a film worth putting on a big screen for a festival or something.
FYI, Although these are film movies, check out link for films recorded in Super 16 format. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_shot_in_Super_16

April 21, 2012

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Since the folks from my local equipment rental already offer 5Ds and 7Ds for rent and quickly and thouroughly upgrade their stock (the C500 already ordered, and 5D Mark III just in), I suppose that they will have the BlackMagic for rent in about August. I'll have a first hands-on tests and probably rent it for myself for a day of test shooting, also to get a feeling of the crop factor and probably have some first thoughts about a workflow with the material, as I have never worked with RAW format on video. I will definitely consider renting it for future projects, but buying it also doesn't seem to be a hard decision as my computer is already equipped to handle RAW footage and I own some Canon glass already. If the sensor also delivers some great images, then I'll start saving my money. On the other hand: When I'll have the money the'll probably have realeased a bigger sensor model. So in any case I'll just sit and wait a bit.

April 21, 2012

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Matt

I don't care for a bigger sensor, there's already a wide selection of cameras availiable with S35 / APS-C... and an equally wide selction of out of focus footage on vimeo / YT by folk proclaiming that "shallow depth of field is cinematic".

This camera is awkward because of the sensor / mount pairing. If they _reduced_ the sensor to S16mm and could maintain the dynamic range that would be an excellent camera. Alternatively if they could just give us dumb mFT instead of EF with their current sensor, that really would open things up... to f/0.95!

April 21, 2012

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nobody

Totally agree with you regarding the shallow depth of field. It's nice to have it as a narrative tool: I wouldn't want to miss it completely. But too many people use it when they were too lazy to get themselves great locations to shoot on or for the ominous 'cinematic look', that of course a whole bunch of cinema films shot on 16mm film also lack. We have all been there on locations that were visually uninteresting, but just using depth of field to fix that is many times a bit shortsighted. Not only can it give your movie an unintended 'feverish' appeal if you overuse it, it's also living hell for your focus puller. And yes: Cameramen DO love it because it is beautiful, but one of my standard sentences to my cameraman is: Higher aperture, please! There is no point in a senseless use of beauty, especially if you shoot establishing shots with an f/stop of 1.2!!!
Cinematic look has also a lot to do with lighting, composition, and, as mentioned, the selection of your location. And casting. A good actor could even make a MiniDV video seem more cinematic, at least if not a complete amateur is filming.

April 23, 2012

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Matt N.

I think this camera looks really awesome, I want 2 of them!

April 21, 2012

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Matt

Offering of 4/3 mount and the possibility to crop to s16 with at least hd resolution and ill get one for sure

April 21, 2012

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jonas

Just a heads up, the 5D is a 1.0 crop, so a 35mm lens of a 5D is 35mm. The 7D is a 1.6 crop, which would make it 56mm. You have it reversed in your article.

Exciting times to be a filmmaker,

April 21, 2012

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You are correct in that the 5D has no "crop". What the article says is that if you are trying to achieve the equivalent viewing angle of a 35mm EF lens on a 7D (which would be roughly the same viewing angle as a 50-55mm EF lens on a 5D), you would need a 20-25mm EF lens on a BMD CC. In other words, i'm not talking about the viewing angle of a 35mm lens on a Canon 5D, i'm speaking to the viewing angle of a 35mm lens on a 7D. I think some folks are missing the part where I'm referring to "viewing angle". In other words, viewing angle of 50-55mm EF lens on a 5D = (roughly) viewing angle of 35mm EF lens on 7D = 20-25mm EF lens viewing angle on a BMD CC.

April 21, 2012

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Mark my words in a year to eighteen months another company will bring out a S35 version of the BMC. It's just logical. I love 16 and S16 dearly but lens FOV issues (buying more glass) are the reason I'm mixing up my GH2 (voigtlanders) with the Nikon D800 and my Nikkor primes. If i want a 16 FOV look I cheat it with the GH2 ETC mode. I'm still scratching my head why everyone has gone nuts for 2 1/2K how many people are heading for cinema display? The images coming out of consumer procameras the last several year from Vimeo, TV commercials, award winning documentaries has convinced me as a filmmaker that staying with these now low-res cameras is the way for me for a good more couple of years.

April 21, 2012

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dan

I agree with you to a point Dan.

But the cost of production work for green screen and special effects is FAR lower today than ever before. And RAW with a vast color space like what this camera provides is as close as one can get without getting into Red/Alexa territory. Renting those cameras is around $1200 a week - rent them 3 times and you have the cost of the Black Magic Cinema Camera and a few large SSD drives paid for. The value of the BMCC can't be denied.

Remember that with crowd sourcing and so many people available to "hire" these days - getting a few special effects shots into your indi-film is easier than ever.

The other advantage of a RAW type file from this camera is the ability of film makers to hold onto a digital negative of their work - ready for cinema "if they need it to be." One could shoot a small indi film short, test the waters out and see there is a market for their work at a higher resolution/bit rate, and then re-edit and render out a new file. And as softer gets better, so will the final render.

How many times do we see studios going back to film archives and re-releasing footage at a higher quality for fans? Same could be done here (to a smaller extent). IMO this camera (and other RAW type cinema products) are all about future proofing your work and giving you options later down the road that a DSLR can't.

Third, while I love my GH2 and other DSLRs, the "look" of this camera will indeed be different - and that alone will be a great tool for film makers. Watch this short shot on the Ikonoskop a-Cam small sensor CCD.

https://vimeo.com/36804057

It looks 100% different than DSLR footage. You can not create this look with a Canon 5D or GH2. Not saying it is better or worse, but being different is fun.

Cheers! :)

April 21, 2012

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Jordan Carr

"Third, while I love my GH2 and other DSLRs, the “look” of this camera will indeed be different – and that alone will be a great tool for film makers. Watch this short shot on the Ikonoskop a-Cam small sensor CCD.

https://vimeo.com/36804057"

great film!
in the "old days" there was diferent stocks for diferent looks. these days diferent stocks = diferent cameras! RED look, Alexa look, Ikonoskop look, F3 look, 5D look, GH2 look, etc... Would be great if we could change sensors (film stocks) on the spot without the need of changing cameras. :)

April 22, 2012

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guto novo

In a way Red users like the owner of this blog will be able to - the new Dragon sensor is an upgrade path for them.

April 22, 2012

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Jordan Carr

in a way indeed. I even think it´s an amazing move by the company and more and more I think RED is a good investiment for indie filmmakers from shorts to low budget features. It´s a pitty that for now in Brazil to import a RED Scarlet kit would make it cost around U$45000! To legally import a BMD camera would make it cost (with the tax) ~U$8000... I´ve been saving to get a ikonoskop in the end of the year, but i´ll may change to BMD. But RED Scarlet is an amazing camera indeed. It´s just a pitty RED doesn´t have a representative in my country. :/ but to rent is the common option in the end.

April 22, 2012

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guto novo

Jordan, yes! I watched that Belgian short this week and completely fell in love with the look. It's an exceptional piece of filmmaking. Can someone enlighten me what diffrence the Ikonoscop 1080 RAW 12 bit as opposed to BMC 2 1/2 K 12 bit is? I know the cameras are way off in price, not my point,question is I'm confused by 1080 12 bit and it's ability to produce such stunning images like that film. Why no more affordable cameras pushing 12 bit 1080 like Ikon or is that the $64k question again?

April 22, 2012

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dan

CCD (ikonoskop) and CMOS (BMD has the rolling shutter bonus prize) may be the diference?
CCD is analogic sensor, CMOS is digital sensor. May be the root of diferent looks is in how analog and digital deal with the light incoming. :)

April 22, 2012

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guto novo

wow thanks Guto, learn something everyday. So why Ikon go for the CCD, simply because it deals with rolling shutter better? or worse?

April 22, 2012

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Dan

There is no rolling shutter on CCD (charged couple device). They came out before CMOS or were more popular than CMOS early on. They were (are) used in a lot of 2/3 cameras but usually have a prism in front to separate RGB. Many cameras have 3 - one for each color so no de-bayering.

CMOS became standard on DSLR's mainly because larger sensors could be made from them, you don't see any FF CCD's around. With CMOS comes rolling shutter and bayer patterns, something DSLR's weren't concerned with (until video came out). Remember, RED came out with CMOS as well.

April 23, 2012

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Bolex is CCD. For the sensor size of the BMCC, I sorta think they should of gone with CCD like Bolex did. It would eliminate rolling shutter and have cleaner color separation. Again, depending on the prism, this could of changed the form factor though.

April 23, 2012

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The CCDs are going out of favor because of noise. On the low end no one is really making larger CCDs because the technologies for CMOS have a better signal to noise ratio and more dynamic range.

There's a big difference between a CCD single sensor and a 3 CCD camera. A single CCD sensor camera like the Bolex is still a Bayer pattern - there's no other way to get the other color information - it must have a color filter over specific pixels.

Honestly I like the image that CCDs produce, but this Blackmagic camera will have less noise because of the CMOS sensor - not to mention it's probably a newer sensor so they can get more out of it.

April 23, 2012

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avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

"CCD is analogic sensor, CMOS is digital sensor. May be the root of diferent looks is in how analog and digital deal with the light incoming. :)"

AND

"... light passing through a prism ..."

Where does this c**p come from?

"... here is what I found on her eye-lashes" has to be a LOL inducer.

This is a great summary that moves past chip-size and crop-factor:

"DR and Resolution are what make a camera shine, and in that, the BMD is a masterpiece at $3,000."

Well said!

April 27, 2012

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Steve

the only thing I'm worried about is the battery, I hope they do something about that before it comes out

April 21, 2012

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Robert

Just plug another one in and mount it on your rig/steadicam/tripod. The internal battery is a bonus but does not have to be used.

Problem solved.

April 22, 2012

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Jordan Carr

Robert, just came across a tweet from @eoshd and Ilya Friedman at Hot Rod who has figured something out for the battery set up.

April 22, 2012

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dan

awesome thanks so much, will look into it!

April 22, 2012

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Robert

I've seaerched for that Ilya Friedman battery fix for BMD issue on Hot Rod yet can't see it anywhere. Any pointers you can give to see Ilya's ideas?

Rgds - Howard

August 21, 2012

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HowardG

... Oh yeah Dan - I don't do twitter! 8-| or FB...

August 21, 2012

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HowardG

Ya Robert, they are not going to change it in this model. The entire reason for the internal battery (which Bolex has as well) was to create a solid aluminum body which greatly saved cost in manufacturing. Future brothers of this camera will be more expensive with removable battery and larger sensor, you can be sure of it. You have to understand, manufacturing unibody aluminum is expensive.

April 23, 2012

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What speed SSD will you need minimum if it shoots 5MB/frame in Raw 2.5K? Also, I am aware to avoid the two hour battery, you could use an external battery source what would be a good option? I am going to be getting this camera this summer, hopefully, and any information would be helpful.

Thanks,
Cory

April 22, 2012

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Cory Ewing

try multiplying the 5MB with your frame rate :P

April 23, 2012

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sebasti

I'm excited about this camera! Not to be too much of a downer, but since I pixel peep my 5dmkII video images for moire my eyes were on the lookout with the test footage. At the beginning of the "Leah" video, here is what I found on her eye-lashes:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/moireartifact.jpg/

April 23, 2012

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You must be a fun guy to be around. It costs 3k. It shoots 'raw' AND two compressed codecs. It fits most lenses. It has a crop factor that a lot of us already work with. If there was a 1 in front of that, some purple fringing and moire in a pre-prod camera would be fine. The C300 has moire. It costs 16k and records only one format. You are looking a gift horse in the mouth.

April 23, 2012

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I like the camera, I was one of the first who started getting info and blogging and checking it out. But let's be honest here: if the 5dmkIII showed moire on some shots, all hell would cry out "It is soft and still has moire!"

I checked into the eye lashes as someone on John's site had pointed it out as well.

Anyway, let's see what the testing brings in. Eager to see what people say. I still think they could of saved money and used a CCD sensor - then everyone's bellyaching over rolling shutter would be silenced as well.

April 25, 2012

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I've already ordered one.
It will go in my case next to my Canon 550D, my Nikon d800, an Af101 and a hole where an FS700 may end up sitting. If you shoot for a living, 3k for that nice 'feel' this camera gives is a low low price (note: I'm really an editor that self-shoots for a lot of different projects I then cut).
If you have little money and are burning to make films, buy a 60D. Still the best value camera ever made, and now used its ridiculous. I realise a lot of people on here are just starting out, either before or after college. If you can find 5k somewhere for this to be your first camera, you are much luckier than I was. With luck and imagination you can achieve almost anything with this kit.

April 23, 2012

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how much bigger is the BMD sensor over an EX3 sensor? because getting a nice, filmic shallow DOF on those bastards is ridiculous unless you're in broad daylight.

this is just a completely personal opinion, but DOF dictates how nice the image is for me, far more than how far i can push a grade.

April 23, 2012

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Ben

Hey Ben,

check out this image from Marco's article over at Creative Cow: http://library.creativecow.net/articles/solorio_marco/NAB_2012-BMD-Cinem... The BMD sensor is at least twice as large

April 23, 2012

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Legend. Thanks for the reference. Sensor looks much larger, so that's very promising.

April 24, 2012

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Ben

er... and by twice, i meant four times as large

April 23, 2012

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to the 4.5 - 5k pricerange for an ready to shoot kit you can easily another 1k to hard drives to store all the data you produce over the first weeks/months.. my guess1 small weekendproject = 1TB = 50€? at least i would prefer keeping the raw data over deleting the files after finishing the project - or unless compress it into something "useable" like the second rec-option - prores 422 which also eats ups gigabytes pretty fast.... its like buying miniDV tapes, only with harddrives :)

April 24, 2012

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mps

I have the money lying in wait to outright buy this thing. I also have more coming from scheduled client projects. I was just about to pull the trigger on the 5D3 when they announced this thing, and now, I am flat out torn. For me, a cinematic look is a process, not DoF alone. With that said, if I was FORCED to pick (I am a DoP and the question is frequently posed), I would actually peg Dynamic Range as being the deciding "cinematic" camera benchmark to strive for. That's where this BMD cam delivers a massive punch to the dslr/value gut! And in DR world, even a half stop is a big deal. There is a difference in proclaimed DR and actually usable DR from any camera, but the small amount of test videos already released show that the DR is in fact in there. "Cinematic" is perceptual and not measurable, but when I see an 11-stop 7D (something like that) put next to a 13-stop Alexa, what is causing the Alexa to obliterate the dslr is not output codec, crop factors, etc., but dynamic range, working in harmony with its "cinematic" wife; Resolution. Maybe that's just the way I personally perceive "cinematic," but I think DR and Resolution are what make a camera shine, and in that, the BMD is a masterpiece at $3,000. With allllll of that said.............. I may just save a bit longer for the FS700. lol Slow motion is becoming increasingly important, after all. Exciting times with these cameras though! And I don't at all mean to say that I would be dissatisfied with a 5D3. It's still a beautiful tool as well.

April 26, 2012

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Oh, and I meant to say: Let's not forget the role of focal lengths in shallow DoF. More than sensor size is at play here. Shane Hurlbut recommends (for focus sanity) keeping an APS-C around f2.8 give or take a stop, and keeping a FF around f4-f5.6 or so. I think some of you would be pleasantly surprised at what this S16 sensor would dish out on a 50mm f1.4 at f1.4-f2. Or how about backing away with a 70-200mm f2.8 L II from Canon? I usually stop my APS-C down to about f2.8-f4 and it's a thing of beauty. The shallow DoF is still in there with the right lens combo, friends.

April 26, 2012

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I just don't see the cost effectiveness for a camera like this? It has some great features, but just the fact you have to spend an extra $200 bucks to hand hold a 4+Thousand camera is ridiculous! And the fact is there are much less expensive cameras that real world shooters can buy that will do the job just fine with a larger sensor.
Is the viewfinder fixed...if so, so much for more low or over the head creative shooting...in your hand!
And as someone mentioned, why buy this when the Canon 5D is available.
I think Black Magic needs to re-think the design.

April 26, 2012

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Profotog01

Wow...so you don't think you need a $200+ device to handhold the 5D? Cuz the BMD camera is just as unergonomic as a D-SLR (for motion...modern SLR's are great ergos for still photography, being well refined by Canon/Nikon/etc over the last 50 years).

You can just look at any d-SLR footage and know by the quantity and quality of the shake and direction of the shake whether or not it was handheld with a weight plate/rods...etc...or just by itself.

the center of gravity and the film plane are in the same place...the closer they are to each other, the crappier to image looks and that's why cell phones are so shaky. Probably like your footage looks without "$200" dollars of gear.

Also...how big a deal is $200 if you're talking about a $4,000 camera?! For an iPhone, yeah, I'd think twice about $200 worth of gear.

April 30, 2012

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Daniel Mimura

It's a $3,000 too, btw...

April 30, 2012

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Daniel Mimura

This camera looks great. Good price and ideal for my undergraduate filmmaking students as a step up from working with S16mm Bolexes. Working with lenses that are poor for focus pulling you don't really want FF sensors, particularly if you are planning on varying the camera/subject distance by tracking/slider/ mini-jib. All grip options that become more affordable with the camera's small form factor.
Going straight to DNxHD instead of some crappy old AVCHD codec is massive too. John Brawley has said that white point is baked-in to the RAW, which is a real shame if true.
Affordable media, great recording codecs, small form factor, good sensor size, low price - what's not to like?
The only current concern is the battery.....

April 27, 2012

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Nigel Smith

I went to a store called Batteries Plus here in the greater Nashville, TN area and explained the situation to them and asked for their thoughts. They pointed me to a rechargeable all-purpose 12v battery that costs $21.99 that is about the same size as a Redvolt batt. Also, there are the V-mount plates for rigging up 12v Li-Ion batteries that you could rig to the 1/4"-20 threads on the top via some Redrock Micro gear. That's the extent of my research so far, but I'm sure that Blackmagic Design will point us all to the right equipment options when the camera is released. Some third-partier might even make us a dslr battery grip-like device. I think the solution will work itself out in the next couple of months.

April 30, 2012

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I'll buy this Camera.

June 11, 2012

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teaspoon

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