October 23, 2013

4K Panasonic GH4 May Arrive This Spring to Compete Against Canon Cinema Cameras

panasonic gh3 rumors higher bit rate wide dynamic rangePanasonic has done a tremendous job with the video quality on their mirrorless photography cameras (especially when hacked in the case of the GH2), but their video options in a dedicated camera have lagged behind both Sony and Canon, who chose to go with larger sensors for their dedicated video cameras. Now, it looks like Panasonic is trying to come back at the game at the lower end with a 4K-shooting camera, and give excellent capabilities in a small form factor.

Thanks to 4/3 Rumors, here is the rundown of the possible 4K Micro 4/3 camera:

16mp
1/8000 shutter
1mil dot OLED screen
21mm OLED viewfinder, 3,000+ dot.
Time code
200mbps mp4 All-i/100mbps IPB
4k/30p
4:2:2 10/8bit output
3G-SDI and XLR adaptor (An adaptor that the camera sits on with XLR x2, HD-SDI x4)
Price: €2799

They have given this a very high rating, but as with all rumors, everything has to be taken with a grain of salt until it's announced. 4/3 Rumors also mentioned that the camera is a bit bigger than the current GH3, which apparently will be even bigger with the SDI and XLR adapter underneath. If there does turn out to be some truth to this, I would imagine that this will represent a new line in the Panasonic lineup. Since it seems like it's going to be coming in a mirrorless/DSLR form, it's not going to interfere with the high-end video in their lineup.

Panasonic was at the very forefront of high-end digital cinema with the Varicam (which still looks great, by the way), and at the lower-end with the DVX (and then the HVX), but the AF100 never took off the way their cheap mirrorless cameras have, possibly due to the fact that it had a smaller sensor than Sony and Canon's products. This meant it wasn't as good in low-light, and there was a crop factor on lenses you probably already owned. When the GH2 was hacked, the very good image quality compared to other DSLRs at the time (like Canon), combined with the inexpensive price of the camera, meant that people were more willing to overlook sensor crop issues, and it did very well in the low-budget filmmaking world. Now they could be trying to capitalize on some of that following with a slightly more expensive product.

panasonic_af100_gh2

As much as I prefer the ENG style for video cameras, this move would make a lot of sense. This new line wouldn't cannibalize their higher-end the way that the GH2 did to the AF100 because the larger and more expensive cinema-oriented camera they've been showing off at a few NABs will have a Super 35mm sensor. There was a second rumor source over at 4/3 Rumors who mentioned that this would be all of Panasonic's best tech and would also compete with the C300 (probably on image quality and form factor). It's unclear if it will have ND filters, but there have to be subtractions in order to make it affordable and still leave something for the their higher-end.

Not all the specs are perfectly clear at the moment, like the part about the 10/8-bit output. Up to 4K 30fps (and presumably good downscaled 1080p) and good bit rates would be welcome in a small form factor, and it would not be surprising if Panasonic has also noticed what a certain Australian company (Blackmagic) has been doing with their cameras. While the latter company has faced a few delays getting their products out, they have been in very high demand, proving that sensor size can be less of an issue when the image quality is there and you're getting RAW and ProRes formats. Blackmagic has worked to give the highest possible quality in the most affordable package possible, and the fact that two of the cameras can utilize Micro 4/3 lenses makes for more directly competing products than they otherwise would have been.

I wouldn't mind seeing them put this new sensor into a body like the AF100 with ND filters -- and we very well could get that at some point. For now, all we've got is rumors, so we'll just have to wait and see what they've got up their sleeves come NAB time.

What do you think? How much would you pay for a more professional GH camera with 4K and presumably better image quality than the GH2 and GH3 -- something close to the C100/C300?

Link: (FT4) Full Panasonic GH 4K camera specs! -- 4/3 Rumors

Your Comment

117 Comments

Christ I just bought a GH3. It better have 120fps, bigger sensor and RAW, then I will buy it..

October 23, 2013

1
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Visual

I know a guy that bought an iPhone 4. Two weeks later iPhone 5 came out. I'm thinking of saving up and buying a HP Z820. But if I do I may wish I hadn't since something newer and better will come out months later and I will regret it. My brother builds computers for fun. I should just have him keep me up with things, part by part. With this kind of playing field one thing I won't do is buy a camera, or computer, that isn't future proofed. 4K is needed in a camera for future proofing. By the end of this year WalMart will be selling a line of 4K tvs, though I don't know if it will be in store or via their web site. It is likely it will be via their web site for a while, then in store. 4K is very quickly coming into the mainstream. And I can see why. At Fry's today I saw 4K tvs next to 1080p tvs. Fry's, unlike Best Buy, has 4K tvs on display next to 1080p tvs. Best Buy stores have been told to keep them apart. So they display them standing alone . But with 1080p and 4K next to each other at Fry's the difference is immediately apparent. 4K makes 1080p look flat and even blurred. 4K is more beautiful, more interesting, and easier on the eyes. I am very, very curious to see video from this GH4 4K!!

October 23, 2013

0
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Gene

this is a different class, you probably paid around $1100 for a GH3 (I did 5 weeks ago). This is 3000 euros, quite a bit more.

October 23, 2013

2
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Derek

Amazing news! I'd prefer a DSLR with 4K than whatever Blackmagic puts out. I like removable batteries, and quick-access buttons (like ISO, shutter) on the body. But will it do RAW?

October 23, 2013

-1
Reply

I would rather have 1080 raw than 4k. I can't even watch 4k anywhere within 400km of where I live.

October 23, 2013

1
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Tyler

I love the old battery argument. Imagine your DSLR had an internal battery that kept your camera alive while you swap external batteries seamlessly. Cool feature huh?

October 23, 2013

1
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Kraig

Sending in your camera to the manufacturer to have the battery replaced isn't so cool (as it is with BMD).

October 24, 2013

1
Reply

Do you even laptop?

October 24, 2013

-1
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Louie

You are right in one respect though - buttons (of all things) would be a nice feature on the BMCC. Still doesn't make me love the images I get from my camera any less though :)

October 23, 2013

-1
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Kraig

Sounds exciting. I've personally loved the GH line especially since the hack. Still have my trust GH1. Also, I trust Panasonic. All good ideas so far. Ready to see product!

October 23, 2013

0
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Ben

$4000 sounds about right for a GH4K, considering the upcoming Blackmagic 4K camera is $4000.

I'd buy that for that price in a heartbeat. Not interested in raw as much as I am in the 4K resolution with the battery life and ergonomics of the GH3.

October 23, 2013

1
Reply

It may not need to be $4K. If it doesn't offer Raw, the price will be closer to $3K, which is what many are guessing. It also will not be called a GH4 probably, as 4 is bad juju number in Japan.

October 23, 2013

-1
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Chris H

The price in Euros across the pond usually translates to the same price in the US dollars in North America, so €2,700 should still be under $3,000. Mind you, GH3 is currently sold for about a grand, making the GH4 (let's use the rumored model number) carry a $2K premium over its 1080p brethren. For comparison, the current Samsung Galaxy Note 3 carries very little premium over the previous Samsung models, despite having the 4K recording capability and the very powerful Snapdragon chip.
.
BTW, Sony's Z-100 has already seen an MSRP drop, being currently listed by B&H at $5,500. And Z-100 has a 600 Mbps 4:2:2 recording compared to 200 Mbps expected on GH4. It's also be interesting see what Sony does with its sub-FS 700 models, such as VG-900 and FS-100. Both seem overpriced for 1080p.

October 23, 2013

1
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DLD

Well, heck, I won't complain if it's $3000! I already have all the lenses I need for Micro 4/3, so a GH4K (or whatever it's called) would fit in very nicely. Is it Spring yet? :)

October 23, 2013

0
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I expect more 4K camcorders to be revealed at this winter's CES, something to compete against the already announced Sony line - AX 1 ($4,500) and Z-100 ($5,500). I am surprised that there hasn't been any 2.5K announcements - which is a solid intermediary step in resolution - but that may appear in the $2K-$3K cameras soon. Or not.

October 23, 2013

0
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DLD

Everything in the video world is going to 4K... for now. Red Dragon 6K will make people want 6K. And from there it's step by step to 16K. What would make people want to slow down for 2K and 2.5K?

October 23, 2013

-2
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Gene

Because it's easy to upres 2.5K. Because it's far less expensive to make the 2.5K suitable media cards and data transfer cables/related accessories. Because a high bit rate 2.5K generates less heat. Because it provides for an easier workflow. Because it should suffice for the next couple of years. Because a less expensive but a more feature laden camera allows for a quicker shoot. Et cetera, et cetera.
.
Sure, in two-three years, everyone will be able to shoot a 16-bit 4K lossless Raw into a 4 TB SSD with a perfect baked-in look, no blown highlights or crushed blacks and subsequently copy that data into a 12" tablet, that will then automatically assemble the full daily edit according to the shot sequence.
.
But we're not there yet.

October 23, 2013

1
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DLD

Yeah, acquisition, upload, editing, rendering, all slower with 4K. But it's worth the wait. 1080p is faster for those things than 2.5K too. But faster and easier isn't what life is all about. We have a microwave mentality in America. If you want ultra convenience go with 720p. Memory cards are smaller then. And man, what a nice rendering time! Like making microwave popcorn. But it will be 720p when you're done. Truth is, the video world is going to 4K, and beyond, because the end user wants it, because it looks so good, because humans will always want to go for more. The inconvenience of handling 4K, and beyond, all the way up to the end user is actually not inconvenience but the way to earn a living, a way to future proof yourself. You're keeping up with the times then. You're rolling with the changes. That's life. Taking the easy way can lead to the poor house. Life doesn't give a lot of reward to those taking short cuts. It's about the end users, isn't it? They may not find the product handed to them at lower resolution attractive. Yep, taking the easy way looks so good up front. But the bill ends up being expensive. Pay the price and create something great.

October 24, 2013

1
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Gene

"We have a microwave mentality in America. If you want ultra convenience go with 720p. Memory cards are smaller then. And man, what a nice rendering time! "

I kinda see your point, but for me (and everyone I know personally) not going 4k yet isn't really about that.

It's about the best possible scenario vs. reality. In reality, there are deadlines to meet, and to meet those deadlines, corners have to be cut. The trick/talent is in knowing what corners to cut without affecting the quality of the end result.

Like if I have a 3D mograph-heavy project for online delivery, I'll go for 1080 or even 720p over 2.5k. Why? Because it's going to web and there will be no perceivable difference in the end product online. If it was going to a big screen, that's one thing—but it's not. It's going to social media. My salary doesn't go up if I spent 3 days rendering vs an afternoon, or if a freelance client, they sure won't appreciate paying for that extra render time and get essentially nothing extra for it.

Same goes for video acquisition. Could we get a 4k raw camera? Sure. We'd also need faster machines, more storage and more lenient deadlines to handle the extra ingestion, rendering, etc. all of which are not free and give us almost nothing in return right now because everything we make goes to web or broadcast.

It's not about the "easy way out" for us—it's about reality. Deadlines have to be met.

October 24, 2013

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Reply

Plus, there's probably $1,500 worth of price difference between 2.5K and 4K and, for that difference, you can get a bunch of pro features included:- from zebras to histogram, from XLR's to focus peaking, from Phase Detect AF to time code. And we haven't even started with the lenses.

October 24, 2013

-1
Reply
DLD

David S.

I see what you are saying. What I said---is trumped by what you said.

A much faster technology for handling 4K must be developed.

October 25, 2013

-1
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Gene

Nikon doesn't seem to think 4 is bad luck.

October 23, 2013

-1
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AdRath

$3000.00 also seems very low considering the Canon 1D C that does 4K (4096 x 2160) video, for the body only is $11,999.00:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855962-REG/

October 23, 2013

1
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Gene

Sounds interesting. Curious about dynamic range though as that seems to be missing from the rumor. I'd take 4k 10-bit with pro codec over RAW as well, so long as the DR is in the 12-13 stop range.

October 23, 2013

-1
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Scott

Please be true

October 23, 2013

-1
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Michael Heiland`

On paper it looks like a strong competitor against the Canon 1DC. It's nice to see 4:2:2, 10-bit recording in a camera at this price point. Frame rates above 60 FPS at decent resolutions would be the cherry on top.

October 23, 2013

2
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Marc B

Yeah, it's the 4:2:2 that makes my ears prick up.

October 23, 2013

2
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Tom

I worked on a shoot recently with the 1DC and was quite impressed. Except for its price. If this camera is anything like it I will consider it. My fear too is that it will top out at 60 fps at the higher resolutions. There were rumours Canon was updating its firmware for the 1DC to handle 120 fps but it was still only available at 720 in our rental.

October 23, 2013

0
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claude riban

If I remember correctly the 1DC is only 8bit.

October 23, 2013

-1
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Dave

I can't believe all of the bitching ive seen today in the forums over what this spec list doesn't have, lol.
A Gh series camera with 4k at 200+Mbps with an OLED display, 10 bit 4:2:2, and FULL pixel readout of
The sensor for $3k.

"No ND filters!? Wtf!! This camera is a no go for me.. "

Spoiled kids. Lmao.

October 23, 2013

2
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XML

lol

October 24, 2013

-1
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Gene

Subtracting ND filters would be a no go for me. I still like working with the Af-100 over the Gh2, because it has them. Variable ND filters suck.

October 23, 2013

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moebius22

Just by a proper set of regular ND filters. Who cares if they are built into the camera.

October 23, 2013

1
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Lucian

For the documentary, tv and event shooters out there ND wheels & switches are a godsend. I'd care!

October 23, 2013

-1
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Chris Lambert

+1

October 23, 2013

-1
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Pat

-2

October 23, 2013

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vinceGortho

Exactly. Takes 1 second to hold an ND filter in front of the lens to see if it's the right strength. I have no Idea why people complain about having to use regular (non-variable) ND filters. They're cheaper and better quality than the variable NDs out there.

Would I *like* a built in ND filter wheel in the GH4? Sure, why not? But if it doesn't have it, will I hesitate to buy one? Absolutely not.

October 23, 2013

-1
Reply

Well, maybe some people complain because they are predisposed to being negative.

October 24, 2013

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Gene

I think a lot of people here are clueless about documentary and event shooting.

October 24, 2013

0
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moebius22

buy a camcorder :)

October 24, 2013

3
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Lucian

It takes much more time to change the ND filter... And then change it again and again because the sun moves. If you do documentary you understand how valuable it is.

October 28, 2013

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Martin

Joe, there is something that you repeat here that I feel is a bit inaccurate. You imply that the GH2 only became superior to the other DSLRs of the time once it was hacked. The unhacked GH2 had vastly superior image quality over its contemporary DSLRs even unhacked, at least in terms of resolution, detail, moire, and aliasing. It actually still is superior in those areas to most of the current DSLR offerings, unhacked. From what I understand only the latest Nikons and hacked 5d Mk3 (perhaps the BMCs?) get anywhere close or better. It was, however, always average to mediocre on dynamic range and highlight rolloff/clipping, but those are at least somewhat controllable through lighting and exposure.

In other words, the hacks added some icing to the cake and brought some extra attention to this hidden gem, but the cake (camera) was already superior in most measures even without it.

October 23, 2013

2
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Shenan

Wasn't implying that at all, but the hack made it much more popular than it ever would have been otherwise, and the hack made the footage better for grading.

October 23, 2013

1
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avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

I guess that's how it reads to me, but it sounds like we agree. Thanks for the response.

October 23, 2013

-1
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Shenan

Yes, all measurements except for color, dynamic range and rendering of skin tones. Resolution doesn't help everything, otherwise most productions would've used the GH2 for all DSLR requirements more often. But, it wasn't for those reasons primarily (and of course popularity in other cases).

The GH2 was certainly great for resolution. Unfortunately that's really where the offerings ended.

October 24, 2013

3
Reply

I think the GH2 is superior in color, and skin tones as well. It's the dynamic range were it fails for me. My last job we used both a GH2 and a 5D3, and un hacked the GH2 killed it in every way except for DR. I have other gripes about the Gh2 but it's a winner in my book.

October 24, 2013

1
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ArchiCine

I shoot on GH2 for paid work all the time. Clients really rave about the "fantastic" looking footage. It's really easy to make great images with that cam. There's something about Panasonic that "gets it" in regards to video. The various models highlighted within the article are a perfect example. This forthcoming 4k cam sounds really good.

October 24, 2013

0
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Jim

seems unlikely they are gonna put ND wheel in a DSLR. Heliopan variable ND is suppose to suffer less from the IQ pollution of other variable NDs. I prefer to just stack regular ND's but I can see if you are running and gunning it might slow you down a bit.

October 23, 2013

1
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Lucian

Didn't see anything about a global shutter, so I think I'll pass.

October 23, 2013

1
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Bolex16

I didn't see anything about 4K in the DigBolex so I am passing on it as it is not future proofed.

October 23, 2013

0
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Gene

Agreed, global shutter is over rated. You loose a full stop of light compared to a CMOS sensor and for what?? If people follow the 180 degree rule then fast movements will be blurred as they are meant to be anyhoo so you dont tend to see skew.

Some manufacturers flogging global shutter as a feature like to use examples like plane and helicopter blades that skew all the way around as reason to have global shutter, but who would shoot rotor blades with a high shutter speed anyhow? You want the blurred blades right? Not sharp. So blur hides that. Only time I see jello is really only in tests whipping the camera back and forth. Never in actual production.

October 24, 2013

0
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5-axis (or any other good working) stabilization would be useful for rig-less low profile hand-held shooting.

October 23, 2013

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tony

Don't think it will be called GH4 as that number is bad luck in Japan.

October 23, 2013

0
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Fresno Bob

Maybe not, but Nikon went with the D4 name for their flagship DSLR.

October 23, 2013

0
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avatar
Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

JM,
So, several of us in LA discussed this with Japanese R&D department and while under nda I can say that it's highly probable the name will not change. I'm however extremely doubtful of 4K unless they can change the direction of the huge tanker near the dock.
Remember it's the AVCHD codec..we pressed them about AVC-Intra (Panasonic's robust platform and solid compression scheme) and it's seems thats unfortunately the issue is chipset and hard wear. I cannot comment on bit rate and any other specs....

October 26, 2013

0
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WMD

Unless you're a heavy M/43 user (and great if you are), I'd hold on to your cash just a wee while longer. Many (MANY) interesting things coming. Might be mid-2014 before we know which of the new cameras to be announced over the next 3-4 months will be worth the money. That 4-5K pricepoint is about to get very crowded.
PS: We should all be writing thank you notes to a certain Australian company, even if you don't buy their cameras.

October 23, 2013

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marklondon

Yes, God Bless BlackMagic.

October 24, 2013

0
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Gene

B&H already has the "consumer" Sony AX-1 model in stock for $4,500 (three ND filters included). The prosumer Z-100 is expected to arrive by the end of November. (AX-1 is actually Quad HD, Z-100 is full 4K)
.
They have no expected date of arrival for BMD's Production Camera yet.

October 24, 2013

0
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DLD

Lumix fz200 has 120fps 720p
GH4 should have at least 120fps 1080p

October 23, 2013

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eko nobel

This is definitely the direction Panasonic needs to take the GH line. Blackmagic has proven that the market is there for an entry-level cinema camera, and Panasonic is losing out if they don't bring something to the table.

If they can keep the price under $3k and give us a cinema-cam quality image, they may have a winner. What will really seal the deal is if they exploit the weaknesses of the BMPC/BMCC and give us a camera that not only has a great image, but also has great controls, menus, I/O, audio, and all of the other things that Blackmagic is falling short on.

October 23, 2013

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I hate rumors but I love this one....

October 23, 2013

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I'm guessing the 8/10 bit thing is the same as, say, the Sony FS700 ... which outputs 8-bit of colour depth in a 10-bit wrapper when using HD/SDI.

October 23, 2013

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If it is indeed true 10bit 4k then this is definitely the right step in direction for PANASONIC after a Overated SONY SENSOR /OLYPIC OMD- E5 SENSOR GH3.

However it seems that 4k will most likely require an external recorder, extra cables and extra money , hopefully they will have some ultral 4k compressed codec that will not be too noisy.

So 3k plus about another $1-2k for external recorder starts to sound "so so " , but still if its a true 10 bit output then other than the non existing black magic 4k, there aint really anything else thats competing with 4k at that price range.

1. black magic 4k = $4,000 but not available
2. panasonic gh4 + exteran recorder = 3k for camera, 1-2k for recorder total around $4,000
3. FS7000 (2k, 4k) = 7.5K FOR camera + 2k for recorder + proprietary sd cards+ odyssey codec =$11k
4. 1dc canon (4k 8bit) = 11k
5. red scarlett 4k = camera+ batteires+media+ reader+lcd/viewfinder = around 12k to get started

c500, f55/f5, alexa, etc all above 25k to get started.

still enticing if they get it right

October 23, 2013

0
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JAYEEE

Why would the GH4 need a recorder if the neither the BMPC or 1DC use one? (Even if the BMPC isn't out, I doubt it'll use an external recorder.) Does Sony's camera really need an external recorder? Does it really? Couldn't they have figured that one out to save the consumer $$$?

October 23, 2013

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I don't think it would be manufacturer's interest to save $$ for consumer, remember they all aim to earn money ! They are not charities.

If phone can record 4K using build in slow ass memory, I don't see why GH4 can't do it, especially if the codec doesn't exceed UHS-1 speed.

October 23, 2013

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Nelson

Sony FS-700 needs either a Convergent Design Odyssey 7 (should be out soon) monitor/recorder in a ~ $12K package or Sony's own SR-5 recorder ($5K) and a $2K digital interface (+ media, ECF, etc). Overall, the Sony package runs ~ $18K but does Raw at that price.

October 23, 2013

0
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DLD

"I wouldn’t mind seeing them put this new sensor into a body like the AF100 with ND filters — and we very well could get that at some point."

Panasonic is supposed to be coming out with a 4K camera using the GH3 sensor next month, November, with 4K @ 60fps. It's not a hybrid like the GH3, i.e., for both stills and video. It's supposed to be a video camera---if what I've heard is true. It may not be a professional grade though. It may be a prosumer. And even though it won't be a hybrid, individual frames of 4K video make for great still photography.

October 23, 2013

0
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Gene

3G-SDI is for 1080p. It should rightly have 4K SDI. It should also have Thunderbolt.

Hope you're reading this Panasonic.

October 23, 2013

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Gene

The speculation over pricing is moot. Panasonic has a good track record of giving good video SLRs at a good price point...albeit with some encouragement from the Ptool user hack community. I look forward to their new 4k offering.

Canon, on the other hand, has a long-standing tradition of basically shagging its customers, in the way it overprices "new" technology...

October 23, 2013

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Skeptikal

This is dumb, all people want is cinema camera / magic lantern 13+ stops dynamic range and zebras and focus peaking. That is all you have to do for now panasonic, you don't even have to make it raw if it is too hard.

October 23, 2013

0
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Dylan

This may be even as good as the GH2. 4k is a winner.

October 23, 2013

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Norm Rasner

whatever

October 23, 2013

0
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hansd

man you guys are still going on about cameras? Sell your gear and make a movie and hire someone to do this stuff.

October 23, 2013

0
Reply

hehehe.

October 24, 2013

0
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Louie

This crowd wont do that.lol

October 24, 2013

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vinceGortho

Dude we wish we could do that but you know we are all cheap bastards and don't have the cash anyways.

October 24, 2013

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Dylan

On a side note.. Hopefully by the end of next year i never see another announcement with the term "8-bit"
In the spec list.. That really needs to just go away already. They'll make everything 4k, and record it at
200+ bit rates (or in the case of the 1-DC 400+) - and then bottleneck it through an 8-bit space. I seriously don't
understand the logic behind that..lol. So you can see all of that banding in Pristine detail?

October 23, 2013

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XML

Do you people actually make films or just post pointless babble on an otherwise very decent website?

4K, 2K, 1080p, MK2, Mk3 Arri, Red, Canon, Sony, 8bit, 10bit, RAW RAW RAW at this level it's all disinformation bollocks, go and make films then give me a call.

Actually don't, just keep posting your uniformed nonsense, you'll make the playing field clearer for real film makers.

October 24, 2013

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Filthy Punt

Are you a cinematographer? If yes is there a web site that shows your work?

October 24, 2013

0
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Gene

Thanks for squaring everyone away Captain Cinematographer A.S.C. No one here has ever heard the "camera does not make you a filmmaker" speech. However, this is the comment section for a camera.. I'm just saying there may or may not be a couple of opinions regarding a camera here....but "Content is King" threads and enlightening rants are all over the internet fella. This one appears to be a little subpar for your level of professionalism. Thanks for stopping by!

October 24, 2013

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XML

It doesn't seem that someone that handles cameras for a living, like Filthy Punt seems to be giving the appearance of, would talk about cameras the way he is. At first blush it looks like he is a contrarian.

October 25, 2013

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Gene

actually, i can see his point... and i concur. it is a good reminder.
Image quality is NOT what hinders most of amateur/indie films these days.

October 24, 2013

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tony

Well lets see your films mate.

October 24, 2013

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Lucian

i don't have any good films yet.
But it is NOT because I need a new fancy 4k camera first...

October 24, 2013

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tony

Thinking before you open your mouth is great, you should try it.

October 24, 2013

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Lucian

do you know of any film that was refused from a festival just because of insufficient resolution?
do you realize that with better resolution there is a higher exigency for detail of your backgrounds,make up or special effects?...

it is not like today we are limited to shooting VHS or miniDV. you can already make perfectly watchable films with current cameras like gh2/mk3/bmc, even more so if they're going to be seen on a computer or TV screen.

October 25, 2013

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tony

With the GH2 and Adobe's superior algorithms I was able to take 1080p from the GH2 and 2X it and it gave me an excellent 4k image, better than what the Canon 1D native 4k image is. I would like to see if this new Panny will produce a better picture resolution wise than this but I doubt it will surpass the GH2 superior dynamic rage which is only beaten by RED at this point.

October 24, 2013

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Norm Rasner

With respect, I find that difficult to believe. Better than a native Canon 4K, surely not ?

October 24, 2013

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Saied

Norm the best algorithm in the world from now till probably the end of time will never be able to know what detail is meant to be there if it wasn't shot in that resolution.

October 25, 2013

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http://vimeo.com/75998713 - the AX-1 short promo video.

October 24, 2013

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DLD

For the last two years I've used a CanonXF305 to produce broadcast documentaries and it's usability is great. Cheap cards, great lens, very portable. The noise reduction is pretty good given you often have to shove in a lot of gain. But there are two elements you can't get around, massive depth of field and limited low light performance. So, Panasonic, rework your AF100, give me 2 to 3 stops more light than a XF 305, put the LCD out front as per the XF 305, a decent codec, hand grip, and get rid of your stupid P2 cards.

October 24, 2013

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HMS

Would love to see the G4 spec in a camcorder format! Agree with HMS. If the G4 is as above, I would buy it, but would really want the ND filters. If you are going to do a job, do it well!

October 24, 2013

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WillTech

This would be the best stabilizer for the new panasonic G4 4k coming next spring!
http://youtu.be/jD9kufcZ9qE

October 24, 2013

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RENz

Wow, that seems like a real cool and effective glidecam...

October 25, 2013

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SuperDre

Lot of balancing with every change of lens.

October 25, 2013

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Kuk

I could probably balance one of those in a minute.

October 28, 2013

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Tyler

Im just hoping canon do something, because most of the other brands are stepping up, at least give us DSlr users more features, not even a 60fps thats a shame man they keep giving us the same similar sensor!! smh

October 24, 2013

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WILL

I just cancelled my BMPCC (ordered in April in Germany!), was fed up waiting longer and told BM, I will also not consider the 4k Camera any more, but wait for the successor of my GH3 from Panasonic, which I am very pleased with, except the low light performance.
I am surprised, that my expectations might come true that fast, spring would be perfect, but I am afraid, it will be later.
I hope, at least 12 stops DR, better low light performance and it will be true 4k, like BMCC with 2,5k sensor produce a true 1080p)
I also expect at least 100 fps in 1080p, since they do things better than Canon (1D-C only ridicules 60 fps!)

October 24, 2013

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Markus

I also cancelled my BMPCC. Had Blackmagic gotten their act together and shipped the units when people were actually excited about them, they might have gotten a warmer reception.

Now I'm just holding out for something like this GH4 as well.

October 24, 2013

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Swissted

Wonder how well will codec handle that 4K resolution? Also better dynamic range will be important. But competing with bigger senzors in Canon cameras??? I dont think so. At the end of the day I allway want bigger sensor camera. Wide angles and shallower DOF with smaller sensors are pain.

October 25, 2013

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Kuk

How wide is wide enough for you? I have a 7-14mm on my gh2 which I only use sparingly since it's ridiculously wide. It's almost in gopro territory at 7mm.
Shallow depth of field is easy with fast lenses that m43 have in abundance. Voigtlander 17.5,25,and 42.5mm f0.95. Slr magic also has a lot of fast glass.

October 25, 2013

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Mike

12mm SLR Magic on the GH2 is topper.
Has anyone bettered that camera yet? Alexa aside, I think not.

October 25, 2013

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Norm Rasner

@Norm, while I love the GH2, you must be kidding. Did you just buy one and now feel that you have to justify it by bringing it up whenever you see a chance?

October 25, 2013

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Brian

The black Magic 4k has an internal fan which is why I'm not crazy about it. I know its very quiet while filming but still that means you need an elaborate audio set up and/or you have to have low audio gain.

The 4k30p GH4 will be steller, I'll be buying 2.

The crop factor doesn't bother me in the slightest, you still get plenty of bokeh with anything over 20mm (40mm equivilent).

I'm actually a Canon fanboy so I'm really pissed that they are taking their sweet time with 4k, and the 1DC only does 24p/25p not 30p. There should have been a 4k T6i by now but I guess Panisonic is going to win this one.

October 28, 2013

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Eric

So, just to clarify, this will NOT be a full frame camera? I'm not too savvy with different sensors and ratios. I'm a bit dumbfounded as to why anyone would compromise this...

October 25, 2013

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Josh

So you don't need a chiropractor visit after logging the full frame zooms all day.

October 25, 2013

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DLD

I love full frame too but heres why ASPC or micro 4/3 are used sometimes....

-Further view with smaller lenses, as DLD noted. This is not ideal obviously for maximum quality but for speed/action/sudden shots this can be very good especially in well-lit places, like street photography.

-Cost! Probably the main reason, sensor surface area is bloody expensive. Of course more means a better image but there's a point of diminishing returns. For example a T3i with its ASP-C 1.3 crop sensor is %95 as good as a 5diii with full 35mm sensor in my opinion, yet costs 1/5th as much.

-Power usage, a smaller sensor is more efficient with energy since each scan takes less.

-Field of view, some people want a broad field of view. When you can't run the risk of the photo not turning out because of focusing (again, like action photography), a large field of view is very handy. This is why tiny sensors like cell-phone cameras produce almost no background blur (which is a bad thing for pro photography). Plus you can still get bokeh on a ASPC or 4/3 with the right lens.

So heres the basics:

Full frame 35mm = Huge Sensor. Scoops up light, resolves detail/sharpness.
ASP-C= about 1/2 the surface area as 35mm and about 1.3 crop factor. Still big sensor.
Micro 4/3= about 1/4 the surface area of 35mm and 2x crop factor. Minimum in my opinion for Pro-Work

Consumer sensors...
1/2"= Found on a lot of older consumer cameras and even some Professional camcorders (which drives me nuts). Too freaking small, needs massive amounts of light and even then still can be grainy.
1/3"= Same issues as 1/2" but a tad more so. The only advantage is a super broad depth of field, your subject is ALWAYS in focus lol (unless you do something dumb like focus on a mountain in the background then turn to your subject)
1/4"= Really noisy.
Cell Phone sensors 2mm - 6mm= The bottom of the sensor chain. Can still make a Decent image with good glass in front of it, apple did this well with the newer iPhones. Samsung's 4k video Note 3 is also a good example of a tiny sensor done well.

The same evolution happened with 1080p, early on all you could get was a 1/3" camera for anything under $10k and even those were 1080x1440 not true 1920 untill 3 years into 1080p like 2009. With 4k I'm happy to see its being adopted properly without some stop-gap (like hdv was).

In short, full frame rules. But if no full frame camera has the features I want (like 4k recording) ASPC or 4/3 will do just fine and still look great.

October 28, 2013

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Eric

APS-C has a 1.6x crop factor. APS-H is 1.3. That aside, a good rundown of pros/cons of different sensor sizes.

November 22, 2013

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Speaking of GH hack/patch/cluster, I have read that Nick Driftwood has been working on one for the GH3 and it is expected to be done in November. Anyone know if that's true?

October 25, 2013

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Gene

Driftwood doesn't initially create the hack, he is however one of the most famous ones to tweak it for really good settings that are commonly used, the initial hack for GH3 would be done by VK.

You can keep tabs on the progress over on his website http://personal-view.com/

November 22, 2013

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It's amazing how we're all spoilt now. A MFT sensor is still huge, just a few years ago most were shooting with only a 1/3 inch sensor. A 2/3 sensored ENG camera was the ultimate and costly biggest you could get, and only few did. A 4/3 sensor is exactly 4X that.
Sometimes I see videographers constantly pull focusing on every shot and or worse being out. Shallow focus is good here and there but all the time ? If our eyes were like a full framed DSLR none of us would be allowed to drive and we'd all be extinct long ago. I allows try to light and focus to look like it's the way we see. So the viewer isen't always reminded he is watching a artificial machine's interpretation of the world.
A full frame DSLR's sensor is twice the size 35mm motion picture camera. 2/3 inch to 3/4 I find a nice compromise on most shooting situations.
Lets face it on fashion parades and action/sports I still prefer 1/3 inch sensors.

November 2, 2013

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Rick Idak

kodak for me…cheaper…faster…better

November 4, 2013

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DIO

I really wouldn't mind paying close to three grand on the body alone, but if they can manafacture it for less then they will really blow a storm through canon's line of DSLRS. I still use my GH2 over everything, even though I have access to the 5D Mark 3 with RAW video hack I still retain more latitude and overall sharpness with my driftwood hacks at 150MBPS+. I would love to see panasonic make their firmware more hack friendly to vitality because what he is doing is helping them and this camer could really set a milestone and blow a lot of peoples minds away. Also like the GH3's Venus sensor was capable of doing, 720P 120FPS at least please you guys can do it I don't know what's stopping you.

November 21, 2013

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i recently cancelled my BM4k preorder after months of waiting. I think have done the right choice, what is the point for having 4k footage and to worry about storage, post production issues. I am very new to cinematography.
Canon on the other hand is good only with magic lantern, but then again there are issues with lantern download. So for me the best choice for a great picture is the panasonic GH3. Great picture quality and looks much better the Canon 5d mark iii and Nikon. To my limited knowledge of cinematography, it is not so much the camera, it is all about your imagination of moving pictures.

January 7, 2014

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Zeno

apart from not having a follow focus yet i wish there was focus peaking on the GH3 is my main gripe on a camera in this price range, especially with my eyesight. next would be 100/120fps. even the gh2 looks great so i dont know much about 4k everyones raving about tho a few shots of the BM looked good there are other areas to be improved. sadly too many features of the gh3 were dumbed down. like the ext tele mode in 50p shhoting. the fast /slow frame rates only in 24p havnt excited me as much as i hoped. who manages to get pro results from these features? not sure about Pany's OIS or whether the incamera system of Olympus would be better and cheaper than having it in the lenses but.....geez, sorry to go off topic. its all a new playing field for me. loving it just the same.

January 9, 2014

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clint

Would love to see the G4 spec in a camcorder format !!! If the G4 is as above, but would really want the ND filters. If you are going to do a job, do it well!..then will give others to put on the thinking cap :)

January 14, 2014

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wesley

So far I've seen great images online and specs that seem great. But my question is how would it hold up next to a 5Diii in a low light setting? That's what I really want to see. Anyone has any info on this?

March 3, 2014

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WrongCrowd