September 4, 2013

Blackmagic 4K Camera Delayed Another 3-4 Weeks

Shipping is still very slow for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera, and now we've got more bad news coming our way straight from the CEO. While the company was hoping to get the Production Camera 4K out sometime in August, we are now in September and obviously have missed that shipping window. Grant Petty just recently posted a message to update us on the progress of the 4K camera, and things don't look too promising if you were hoping to shoot with it sometime in September.

Here is Grant in the Blackmagic forum:

I just want to give you an update on the 4K camera.

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, we received the production sensors much later than we expected. When we built cameras from them we saw some big differences in the images between these production sensors vs the pre production samples we originally received. What this means is that we have been working over the last few weeks to replace a bunch of the software in the camera that handles the sensor calibration and image processing. 

It's taking a bit longer than we expected to do this and we think its going to take about 3 to 4 weeks more to get those changes done and to get the QA process completed before we can start shipping.

We apologize for the delays from the original promised date. Ultimately, image calibration is a very important step so we want to make sure this is done properly before shipping.

Basically, the camera is not done, and it's not going to be done for probably another month. I would take whatever numbers are being suggested above (3-4 weeks), and at least double those for when regular people might realistically see them in their hands. At this point it's pretty clear that anything they ship camera-wise is going to start out very slow, and take at least 2-3 months before really ramping up (potentially more).

Even though it doesn't make much sense to plan a shoot around a camera you're not already holding in your hands or couldn't easily get, many people do it anyway. With this camera, it's probably not a good idea. Any estimates given are likely best case scenario, so this camera rollout is going to take quite some time. I would not be surprised if all pre-orders took until well into 2014 to be fulfilled.

I guess the only good news at the moment is that you can go buy the original 2.5K BMCC for only $2,000. If you want to shoot RAW with Blackmagic, that's still going to be your only choice for quite some time, as the Pocket does not have it yet, and the 4K likely won't ship with it either.

Link: Blackmagic Production Camera 4K Update -- Blackmagic Forum

Your Comment

103 Comments

I pre-ordered this for a shoot I start at the weekend. With most camera manufacturers you they ship pretty quickly. Blackmagic have lost a customer in me and I imagine thousands of other people.

Important lesson about promising what you cannot deliver!

September 4, 2013 at 12:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ewan Thomas

I don't think it's a good policy to rely on a camera that doesn't exist for shoot (whichever manufacturer it comes from) simply because it doesn't allow you enough time playing around with it before going to an actual job.

September 4, 2013 at 12:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I wasn't relying on it at all. I was hoping it would be available. After all they did promise shipping in JULY! I thought 2 months would be a fair amount of time for a camera to come. I've already got a 5D Mark III so I'm using that with Magic Lantern instead. But lesson learned. I think the mistake they made is they opened their mouths about delivering dates. If they'd said fall 2013 that would have been different. They shot themselves in the foot massively.

September 4, 2013 at 1:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ewan Thomas

This happens all the time. Nikon's D800 pre-orders were insane.

September 4, 2013 at 2:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I feel your pain but this happens ALL THE TIME with ALL THE MANUFACTURERS... I have waited 4 months after the "official" release to get my mkIII, I've waited a long time for the HVX200 (a few years ago) heck, I've even waited 3 months to get my VW Golf from the dealership!

You have to realise that this is new technology from a company that wasn't used to making cameras! We should be thankful just for the fact that they are innovating and creating something that I believe will be truly beneficial for all of us filmmakers.

Early adopters always have issues with their gear... that's the price to pay for being on the cutting edge of technology. Good thing Blackmagic isn't charging near as much as other camera companies.

Good luck to your shoot, you'll be more than fine with the mkIII + ML raw - it's freakin' awesome!!

September 4, 2013 at 5:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ewan Thomas

I feel for you man. You probably had hopes for some beautiful, low cost 4K. 5Dmkiii ML has a bit of a harsh edge to it. I'm expecting this 4K camera will be easy on the eyes.

September 4, 2013 at 8:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

It's your fault for booking shoots on equipment you don't have yet

rookie mistake

September 4, 2013 at 1:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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john jeffries

Rookie mistake to order something a company say is shipping 2 months before I need it. Right, right. So I guess you never Internet shop then...

And I already had a backup plan. And it was my own film. Not a paid for shoot. I was 'hoping' it'd be released in time. It wasn't. I cancelled my order.

The point is, don't promise if you can't deliver. End of.

September 4, 2013 at 2:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ewan Thomas

It's pretty silly to pre-order a camera for an expected shoot when you have yet to use it or even see whether or not the image it delivers is what you're looking for in regards to the story you'll be telling, don't you think?

September 4, 2013 at 3:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Steven

Such a prosumer thing to do, using a camera based entirely off of internet film blog hype

You need to do at least 2-3 rounds of camera tests before every film

September 4, 2013 at 4:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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john jeffries

So I'm making a film, and I want to shoot it on the best camera available to me at that price at that time and I see that some months earlier the 4K is announced. I'm an idiot for pre-ordering it expecting it to actually exist 2 months before I need it. When the company ASSURES everyone it is going to be definitely shipping at that date. And that said company has a track record of not delivering on time and that this time it will be different.

And I will be buying it for work but also my own personal project. And then low and behold said company does not deliver on time or anywhere near the time it promises. It's simple don't make promises you don't keep in business or you lose customers.

September 4, 2013 at 7:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ewan Thomas

Based on the quality of the BMCC and the specs + the price of the 4K it's silly? I'm sorry but I honestly don't know what you are talking about. At that low price point you can absolutely afford to take a punt on it.

September 4, 2013 at 7:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ewan Thomas

Everyone on here gets irrational in their never ending defence of Blackmagic and their failure to deliver when they say they will. Try not to pay attention too much. If it was any other company the same people would be slaughtering them

September 4, 2013 at 4:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Peter

Same issues with Red. It's foolish to expect a company new to camera manufacture will hit a shipping date.

I worked in high tech before filmmaking. Producing and delivering a camera is hugely complex. They rely on suppliers who may not come through. As the CEO said, the production sensor is different than the prototype. So, their decision is to ship something no one will like or delay.

September 4, 2013 at 6:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Charlie

Why not grab the 2.5k camera that is readily available in stores right now? If you're using a 5d3 obviously you don't need 4k on this project. You could have one in your hands minutes after reading this post.

It seems like a better choice than running a hack in a production environment.

September 4, 2013 at 2:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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AGRREEDDD!!!! btw if you are reading or commenting on nofilmschool you are probably a rookie or sophomore, including myself

September 4, 2013 at 3:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kazu

I couldn't deal with the crop factor of the BMCC otherwise I would have.

September 4, 2013 at 7:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ewan Thomas

as if speed boosting isn't an option for super35 sized crop.
It seems you are full of excuses.
Don't harp on release dates. Go to work and one day you'll look up and it will be in stores.

September 5, 2013 at 2:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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VinceGortho

Just today, SONY announced a 4K CAMCORDER the FDR-AX1! It's 4500.00.
IT'S NO BLACK MAGIC!
But some of you may still want to check it out. Although it wont be out until second week of October,
it'll probably be available before Black Magic's 4k comes out. HAHA!

Check out SONY 4K CAM HERE:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/09/04/first-impressions-sony-fdr-ax...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS2yM9kaqag

Sony's new 4K SAMPLE VIDEO HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ01B5y0Vsk

September 4, 2013 at 5:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ramaatis

HEY JOE!
Just today, SONY announced a 4K CAMCORDER the FDR-AX1! It's 4500.00.
IT'S NO BLACK MAGIC!
But some of your readers may still want to check it out. Although it wont be out until second week of October,
it'll probably be available before Black Magic's 4k comes out. HAHA!

Check out SONY 4K CAM HERE:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/09/04/first-impressions-sony-fdr-ax...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS2yM9kaqag

Sony's new 4K SAMPLE VIDEO HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ01B5y0Vsk

September 4, 2013 at 5:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ramaatis

That footage is beautiful. Water is fascinating in 4K!

September 4, 2013 at 8:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Until you have equipment in your hands and have tested (many many times), who assumes it'll work correctly, ship relatively on time??

Blame yourself and you'll never be in this amateur situation again. Blame random manufacturer, sooth your ego for the moment, stay amateur.

September 4, 2013 at 6:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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CJ

New camera! Order yours today!

Delivery? Errrh... When we announce a new one.

September 4, 2013 at 12:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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This company is really slow to act. Even with their existing cameras, they lack firmware features such as audio meters. They're really slow, and thats not going to change until other manufactures are shipping the same type of cameras at the same price.

September 4, 2013 at 12:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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cee

" . . . [T]hats not going to change until other manufactures are shipping the same type of cameras at the same price." And in larger volumes and with complete features (i.e., all announced features are in the shipping product -- there could, and should, always be firmware upgrades).

September 4, 2013 at 1:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tzedekh

I saw an interview a few weeks back when they mentioned new products being announced at IBC probably a active MFT and ef pcoket (just guessing nothing to back that up) dont envy their PR team...

September 4, 2013 at 12:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chris Lambert

An active MFT BMCC makes a lot of sense. Because of the mismatch between EF lenses and the pocket's Super16-ish format, an EF mount for it really doesn't make much sense at all.

September 4, 2013 at 1:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tzedekh

yeh i agree. hopefully the delay might make them rethink the form factor or at the very least shift the cable ports and ssd in to their opposite sides to get rid of cables in the face, give us a more traditional form and all the delays forgiven in my oppinion

September 4, 2013 at 1:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chris Lambert

Yes these delays are disappointing but its BS when someone says that " _____ lost me as a customer".
There is no brand loyalty anyway and filmmakers will always want to save money on the best gear that's available.
Just don't expect to have a camera in your hands just because of a release date.

5d3 raw was the best decision i made after selling my bmc EF :)

September 4, 2013 at 1:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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cee

O_o.....

September 4, 2013 at 1:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Omar A

Sigh...

September 4, 2013 at 1:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I have to agree. I'm thinking the wait is going to be worth it though. Sony coming out with a 4K camcorder and Panasonic following soon in November. In a year it could be standing room only for 4K cameras. Who will come out with 6K (besides Red) or 8K first?

September 4, 2013 at 8:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

>.< Here we go again. Thanks for the update Joe!

September 4, 2013 at 1:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mike

Instead of kept informing customers of another delay, they should just give a vague announcement like, Release Date : End of Year

And once they are going into full production, only announce when they'll start shipping.

Better for the customers and better for the company

September 4, 2013 at 1:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Adam

anyone starting to see a pattern with this company ? they announce a new camera that's essentially vapor-ware, make wildly unrealistic promised about manufacturing and delivery, and milk free PR for a year --- and then it's always a third party/vendor at fault for them not being able to deliver.

bordering on scam. anybody that pre-orders in good faith from these clowns gets what they deserve.

September 4, 2013 at 1:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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sjk

Well the 2.5K BMCC is one of the best images out there right now. It's a really quite amazing. The only "scam" I see right now comes from companies like Canon... who use technology/codecs from 2005, put a "cinema" label on them, and mark up the price to 10x the value. A C300 should be about $1500-$2500 no joke. It really is a scam for the price it is now. Absolutely absurd.

Also, the reason Blackmagic is always waiting on parts from third parties... is because they buy allot of the components from third parties. They are not a sensor manufacturer. They've stated this many times. The sensors are not THEIRS.

September 4, 2013 at 2:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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bwhitz

did you ever hold one or see one in real life. You clearly haven't a clue

September 4, 2013 at 4:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Peter

What the 2.5k model? Yea, I own one. I haven't seen anything come close to it until you get to Red/Alexa territory. Best image you can get besides those cameras, hands down.

September 4, 2013 at 4:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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bwhitz

Or are you talking about the C300? Which yea, I don't own... but the "ergonomics" argument is really dumb. It's not worth $12,500 to have a design that looks more "camera-y". Image quality trumps all. I don't like the 8-bit gradations in the abysmal mpeg codec, I don't like the lack of gradablity, I don't like the long-GOP motion. None of it is organic or makes me think of a feature-film-quality image.

September 4, 2013 at 4:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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bwhitz

Meanwhile some of us have been shooting 4k since March with Canon, and those jobs have paid for the camera already, I guess Canon really sucks eh?

September 4, 2013 at 8:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jess

I don't know if anyone said Canon "really" sucks.

September 4, 2013 at 11:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

;^)

September 4, 2013 at 11:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

It's their first time making a camera, guys. Cut them some slack.

September 4, 2013 at 1:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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john jeffries

+1

September 4, 2013 at 1:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chris Lambert

...or third.

September 4, 2013 at 2:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Pat

its their third camera john, and they're making the same mistakes again

September 4, 2013 at 4:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Peter

well, I assumed that they have been developing all 3 at the same time. It is their first generation of cameras.

September 4, 2013 at 4:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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john jeffries

It is their first generation. It only makes sense to give them slack. I'm thinking the image from this 4K camera is going to be just fantastic. Imagine what following generations will look like! They care about image quality. They don't need a hill of hacks to make a great image. Can't say that across the board for all other camera makers. I'm sure they feel rotten about these delays. But getting something right takes time. People need to look at how long it took for hacks for other cameras to come out...........

September 4, 2013 at 8:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

right. it's their first time making a camera, so you think they would want to establish some credibility. they're wildly incapable of making good on manufacturing and delivery dates, so why wouldn't you think maybe they stretch the truth on specs, performance etc ? if i was them, i'd worry about that ...

they promise cameras that are designed around production sensors --- but they don't have quality control over, or a a reliable stream of those sensors when they trumpet the camera all over the place .... is that a good business model?

September 4, 2013 at 1:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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sjk

designed around image sensors ... sorry.

September 4, 2013 at 1:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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sjk

They have years and years of credibility making high end hardware. Yeah, they botched the camera launch. But that doesn't make them anything near "bordering on scam". They are a reputable, respected hardware company... just having a poor camera launch.

September 4, 2013 at 2:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Actually to be fair even big name companies had problems and delays on cameras, honestly when ever they say a camera will be ready, add 3 to four month for realistic shipments, because the first batches will have glitches also.

Even the first batch of iphones usually have faulty problems, its just the way it is.

September 4, 2013 at 4:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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JAYEEE

+1

September 4, 2013 at 8:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

I'd rather have them take the time to get things right! That being said, I pulled my pre order and bought the reduced cost cinema cam. I'll have fun with this while BM works out the niggles :)

September 4, 2013 at 2:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chaz Newman

I hope Black Magic learn that when they have a camera and a deadline based upon suppliers promises then Murphy's law will apply! Whatever your contingency period is...double it for safe measure. Potentially alienating customers twice in a row is not a good look Black Magic Design. Apart from that though BMD is a pretty damn good company that's actually doing some impressive things in the industry which, depending on the quality of the image on the 4K sensor (and how it looks down sampled in HD...which to be perfectly honest is what I'm most interested in at the moment as my computer couldn't hack the 4K workflow as it is) might just shake up some of the big boys...Canon in particular. This can only be good news for the consumer (or prosumer) as a price drop on the 5DMkIII would be most welcome, particularly as I'd 'have' to buy the Atomos as well to record in ProRes. Meanwhile....back to thinking about things to shoot and not labouring on what I'm shooting them on!

September 4, 2013 at 2:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Darren Wolff

no they won't learn.

September 4, 2013 at 3:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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hansd

It's not their first time making a camera. Last year was their first time making a camera.

I can't wait until everyone gets their 4k and then the month after the 5k launches and the 4k drops half it's value.

September 4, 2013 at 2:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I am surprised that people actually believed the cameras would ship in August...

September 4, 2013 at 2:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I REALLY hope they have different people working on giving the 2.5k camera that big firmware update we're all waiting for. It was my fear that when seeing these new cameras announced that it would halt all progress on the existing camera, which in my opinion isn't "done".

They also need to get that blooming sensor issue under control for the pocket owners...

September 4, 2013 at 2:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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A couple of hours ago, Sony announced the October release of its AX1 "prosumer" model - Quad HD, XAVC codec in 4:2:0, three ND filters, XLR connectors, 60 fps, focus peaking, zebras, HDMi 2.0 with the eventual firmware upgrade. Vegas Pro 12 and a QXD card included. MSRP $4,500.
.
The line forms to the left.

September 4, 2013 at 2:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

any word on the low light on that? glad ive still got a dof adapter gathering dust

September 4, 2013 at 3:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chris Lambert

A very small 1/2.3 sensor - looks like the same as on Pentax Q10, 12.4 MP total that is winnowed down to 8.3MP usable - so it doesn't appear to be all that great in low light at a max 20X optical zoom. With it wide open, it should be OK, I reckon.

September 4, 2013 at 3:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

They won't be able to compete with BM4K in image quality. But I've seen the video of the new Sony. Nice!

September 4, 2013 at 8:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

This is nothing unusual. The audio industry have been suffering with this all year. Korg Volka, Moog Sub Phatty, Korg Ms20 mini etc etc. Don't get me started about any iPad based product from Alesis. They are so late that when they finally get around to shipping, there's a new iPad out and they have to pull production while they build adapters and new firmware! If anything, BlackMagic are quite efficient!

September 4, 2013 at 3:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mark

I hope they're next move will be to do a 1000$ discount again (with the 4K this time) LOL

September 4, 2013 at 3:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mr.Floppy

3-4 weeks?
3-4 month.
Bet on it.

I'm giving up on BMD learning to communicate in a way that's good for them and their customers.

September 4, 2013 at 3:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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hansd

Oh well... the new Sony PXW-Z100 4K will likely arrive before the BM4K anyway. http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/09/sony-announces-sub-6500-pro-4k-camcor...

September 4, 2013 at 3:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Razor

And that's the pro version of the AX1 (with 4:2:2 and much higher bit rate).

September 4, 2013 at 3:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

I think at a certain point giving specific days that the camera will be shipping(July 27 for the BMPCC) then only shipping handfuls out here and there is pretty bad for a company that wants to be taken seriously, they shouldn't have to make excuses about why their camera isn't shipping even if it is just to refine the image, BM should learn from their mistakes.

September 4, 2013 at 3:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Derek

Very annoying but totally expected. Like someone said earlier why don't they just announce later release dates for the camera launches and then give everyone a nice suprise when they're actually available to buy earlier than planned!

Blackmagic design seem to love Apple so they should probably take a leaf out of Apple's book on product launches.

September 4, 2013 at 3:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tris

when i used to work on TV production, they were slow on updating and support for the decklink product line as well. That's why we switched to AJA kona's back then.
When a small company is manufacturing something so tremendously affordable and NEW it is expected.
We all had this conversation years ago with RED-ONE mx's when they started rolling out.
Plus they are still late often on dates

September 4, 2013 at 3:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kazu

By the way, the one Sony model to watch out for is FS-700R. Currently, FA-700 it can shoot 4K Raw with Sony's own digital interface (add $5K) and its own outboard recorder (add $5K more) and that puts the package around $20K or very close to F5 (16 bit) with the same recorder. The Convergent Design Odyssey Q7 ProRes option comes at around $12K, whenever the outboard recorder/monitor ships (suppoR" edly, the next month). If the manufacturer manages to install the digital interface, however, into the updated "version, then there might be a quality 4K Raw piece in the $12-$15K range,

September 4, 2013 at 4:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
The doubts I didn't want to have about Black Magic Design are officially realized.

September 4, 2013 at 4:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Logan

Meanwhile...Sony just launched a 4K camera for 4.5K$. http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/sony-handycam-fdr-ax1/4505-65...

September 4, 2013 at 5:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Quobetah

interesting that when RED Dragon announced months and months of delays (now may be til december before we seem them) nobody had too much negative to say. This is despite RED showing up to NAB with engineers that were in air locked chambers swapping out good sensors, for sensors that didn't work. Taking pre-orders no less back in March. Here Black Magic announces a 4 wk delay, and all the sudden it's negative city, with projections that 4 wks really means 2014, and how people shouldn't buy the camera if they're thinking of shooting in the near future. I'm not saying this assertion is untrue, just funny how the same negativity and warnings didn't apply to RED during their delays.

September 4, 2013 at 5:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Shawn McElroy

Blackmagic Cameras (for the price) are too good to be true. If shipment delays are the company's only fault, I'm okay with it.

September 4, 2013 at 5:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ian B

I was really hopeful that last years BMCC 2.5K was a fluke with its delays and that this years 4K camera would ship in a reasonable time. Like most people, I'm truly disappointed and I am no longer counting on Blackmagic for my future needs. A real shame.

September 4, 2013 at 5:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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JZ

Oh, we're all bickering about different camera companies again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI

September 4, 2013 at 5:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE IT JOE!!!!!!!

September 5, 2013 at 12:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Robert

And just like last month they waited until a few days after the camera was supposed to be released to announce that it would be delayed... yet again!

Same thing with the BMCC last year. This company really doesn't care about their customer base.

September 4, 2013 at 6:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jman

…. Or are they trying to use the technical delays -- which may be quite real -- to build up anticipation for when it finally does arrive? Sometimes I think these future product date announcements are an awful thing….. If in the case when release date closely matches the scheduled date, then fine. But when there are numerous long delays, it leaves me not knowing what to think (but speculate on what sort of problems they are having, and whether it's a bad omen for the product, or does it mean they are being meticulous)

October 27, 2013 at 12:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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luftweg

"the pre production samples we originally received."

It would be a nice thing to see some of this footage now while we wait. I'm not complaining. This camera may be worth the wait! It's just I want to see some footage, even if it's pre-production.

September 4, 2013 at 8:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

They can take as long as they need. What other professional options are out there for 2.5K-4K RAW under $4K? Cheapest Sony option (FS700 + Odyssey7Q) will be over $10K (not available yet). Red Scarlet is over $8K (plus all the required peripherals). Canon's cheapest option is $30K. Digital Bolex is a gimmick, and isn't available. Magic Lantern isn't something you'd want to take to a professional shoot just yet.

Red is the only company with a low cost RAW option available right now, but they've been at this for years, and they were able to strip down their high end products to offer a cheaper alternative. Black Magic are 1 year in, and they're building from the ground up.

Scarlet has, IMO, proven to be the best value. Had you bought a Scarlet when they were first released, you'd have certainly had time to make your money back on it by this point, and definitely well before the next competitor (BM Production Camera) arrives. Still, I'm confident that $4K for that bad boy will be a bargain for its time.

September 4, 2013 at 9:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Interesting views, but why do you single out Digital Bolex as a gimmick compared to other cameras not yet available ? The Digital Bolex looks imminent, no ?

September 5, 2013 at 5:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Saied

@Ben Howling, people said the same thing about the bmcc, that its a gimmick.

September 5, 2013 at 9:03AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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David

The Digital Bolex will certainly have its place, but I think that will predominantly be with Digital Bolex enthusiasts. The Black Magic range looks to cater to consumers and professionals. They're the high-end alternative to a DSLR, at a DSLR price.

September 5, 2013 at 9:32AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Very interested to see 4k global shutter, worth the wait. Relax ;)

September 4, 2013 at 9:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anthony Marino

As I've said before, they continue to associate this camera with delays and just overall bad feelings, even when it does get released it won't sell as much as they would want. If there is one thing camera manufactures must learn is to not make promises and to not announce cameras before they have them ready to ship. Does anyone doubt ARRI is working on an ALEXA replacement? A 4K ALEXA? But best believe, they will announce it and then ship it. No delays, no statements of apology. All independent camera manufacturers must learn this. It's the need for attention and adoration that screw them up at times (PRIMARY COLOR CAMERA COMPANY I'm looking at you!)

September 5, 2013 at 1:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Absolutely agree with you.

September 5, 2013 at 2:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Coty

Actually, I think someone from Arri mentioned a 4K version. So, is that an announcement?

September 5, 2013 at 2:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

I mean this isn't news just for camera manufacturers, honestly I've been in several industries where this is the case (audio, auto, culinary) Trust me, every company ever does it. EVER.

The thing is the internet has made everyone rabid for everything immediately.

If people don't want to purchase a stellar product (if it ends up being, i'm not sure) because of a delay, well that's a huge bummer for them.

If you've ever manufactured anything and some parts were brought in from a separate manufacturer, then you'll know, you can hardly count on people.

So something in production happened where the company wasn't thrilled with and they delay something?? to make sure it's...... right.... *GASP*

sweet lord who cares.

Patience

(p.s if you're into audio/music you've heard of the show namm. At namm every year companies announce new products, most of these products are 6 months to a year away from being produced. Whats the harm in creating excitement? Well I guess the harm is getting the public's soaking wet panties in a bunch.)

October 25, 2013 at 7:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Matthew

It is exactly the same stated reason as with Aaton a couple of months ago, who even slipped into insolvency. Makes me wonder what's going on with sensor manufacturers.

September 5, 2013 at 2:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

I want to preface this by saying that I absolutely love what Blackmagic are doing BUT I've learned the hard way that I cannot rely on their 1st generation products out of the box. Even when they do actually ship the 4K, I won't expect that the cameras coming in the first months of shipments will actually work properly. My EF BMCC had infinity focus problems and had to be returned. And the BMPCC I received last week is sadly being sent back because it is mysteriously clipping the image at 80 IRE. At this point it would be silly not to assume that similar QC lapses will plague the early shipments of the 4K too.

September 5, 2013 at 5:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jamie LeJeune

I am seeing so much negativity regarding Blackmagic at the moment on the whole camera situation. Lots of empty promises when it comes to dates and lots of mistakes regarding QC.

They like any company shouldn't really be setting a release date for any product unless they are 100% certain they can meet the deadline as well as be 100% sure that the product has been put through its paces and simply works.

An old saying comes to mind, "stick to what you know and do best."

September 5, 2013 at 11:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Nate

As the most interesting man in the world once said, "Find out what it is in life that you don't do well...
then don't do that thing".

September 5, 2013 at 1:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Conspiracy theories going wild, but bigger camera companies could be bullying the sensor manufacturers to hinder smaller companies and protect their own higher camera prices. Far fetched ? Read this by Martin Euredjian.

http://www.digitalbolex.com/funding-complex-rd-existing-product-line/

September 5, 2013 at 3:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Saied

I am also disappointed that the 4K didn't arrive in July when promised. But Look at Red with the Epic and Scarlet. The 3K for 3K Scarlet never happened, even having Ted from Red show off the prototype everywhere.
The Epic had one delay after another and when they both arrived some 2 1/2 - 3 years later. They were a lot more expensive than promised. Like mentioned here in forum. Blackmagic is a start up company in the camera field. Others have been building cameras for a 100 years. Where's Panasonic's 4K cameras ? They for one should have been first to deliver that technology. Since they brought out P2 memory recording way back in 2005.
To shoot 4k in camera you need a Sony F55, Red Epic, and they are astronomically priced. So lets give em some slack. It's not their fault their sensor supplier changed specks. If it arrives before christmas it's still worth waiting. But like a lot of you here I was so itching to get my hands on one a shoot.

September 14, 2013 at 9:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Rick Idak

Patience Grasshopper. Over half of you will never order it or shoot anything worthy anyway;)

September 19, 2013 at 9:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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John Black

Personally, I've been very happy with blackmagic. I used the BMCC on a short film project, and was very blvery happy with the results. That being said, I never buy a product like this release day, much less preorder, so I haven't really been affected by delays. It's the sort of thing where I'm not really worried about when it's released, just how good it is when it finally is released. I don't really care if I have to wait until mid 2014 to use it on a production when all the bugs are fixed, because there are plenty of alternatives until then.

September 29, 2013 at 3:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Joey

In sensors I have seen so far, global shutter costs 2 to 3 stops. In a Kodak sensor, DR is 12 stops in rolling shutter and only 9 stops in global shutter.

My guess is Blackmagic didn't expect the CMOS quality to be so bad in global shutter mode. They should explain the misunderstanding, apologize for the global shutter feature, and release it as a rolling shutter model. It will sell well.

The DR will be inferior to the pocket model in any case. 1, 2 or even 3 stops inferior depending on their decision.

October 2, 2013 at 8:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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CMOS

Hear ye, hear ye!!!

The Blackmagic 4k is here-e!!! My friend got his the other day. Can't wait to try it out!!

October 9, 2013 at 5:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tay Mack

So whats the verdict, worth the wait?

December 4, 2013 at 3:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Sean Giliberti

"If you want to shoot RAW with Blackmagic, that’s still going to be your only choice for quite some time, as the Pocket does not have it yet, and the 4K likely won’t ship with it either."

Does this mean that the 4K blackmagic won't shoot raw when it releases? That would double suck.

October 22, 2013 at 5:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Piewee