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January 1, 2013

RED Dragon Unleashes Its First Image, and SCARLET Camera Gets an Upgrade Path

It may be 2013 in many places around the world already, but it probably feels like a whole bunch of holidays wrapped into one over at RED. The company has been somewhat quiet about their Dragon sensor over the last few months, but thanks to the CEO Jim Jannard we've been getting details here and there throughout 2012 about the sensor. It's claimed that it will be able to achieve over 15 stops of dynamic range, and they are trying to back up that claim with a dynamic range chart showing what appears to be that, and possibly more.

This is the first image from Dragon (click for larger):

UPDATE: If you're curious exactly what's going on in the chart, Graeme Nattress stopped by to post this in our comments section:

If the 1st step is at clip, any point below that has detail, so the jump from step 1 to step 2 marks one stop of DR. Each step below that you can differentiate from the background counts as another stop of DR.

There will be a wide range of valid values that you can place mid-grey at, just as with our other cameras. That’s the beauty of how we have ISO gain work on our cameras.

Looking at the raw data here I can see steps 1 through 19 inclusive which would indicate a 18 stop DR, and as you say, and as Jim says, the sensor team is still tweaking…. I can’t wait to see what they send me next to analyze!

Here is what Jarred Land said in the forum:

Happy New Year everyone... just a bit of an update on Dragon.

There are some people that think RED has been standing still.. Quite the contrary. We just have been a bit quiet with our hands full harnessing the fire-breathing power of the Dragon.

Dragon was born from a brand new pixel design, with a new fab process and a new read out architecture that has resulted in a sensor that is cleaner and that has more dynamic range than anyone expected.

One of our most reserved sensor engineers wrote Jim and I this morning after shooting a test and these were his words:

" First time in ten years that I'm speechless "

Getting Dragon done was one of the most difficult things we have ever done... but it has turned out to be much more than we could of ever imagined.

This much range coming off of a sensor has never been done before.. let alone at over 6k at 80 frames a second.. so we had to beef up the entire infrastructure of EPIC.

This is likely to affect the price of the upgrade a bit.. and its going to close the door on any chance of a Scarlet to be able to upgrade to Dragon.

We are however.. going to be offering a trade-in program much like we did with the R1 for Scarlet customers to get into an Epic Dragon.

So on the last day of the year of the Dragon, I am going to share with you a frame that was taken this morning.

Don't look at image quality here... this is a dirty debayer with no black calibration, no offset correction and no processing on a special 21 stop DR Chart from DSC.

This is from a prototype " Frankie " Epic camera with a really, really expensive engineering lens that really, really sucks at taking pretty pictures, on a non-sealed lens mount ( hence the light bloom ) but it gives you a bit of an idea on just how powerful all your cameras are about to become.

"Real" Images coming soon... ( but not tonight )

A little later he said:

...notice the little piece of tape on the top of step 16 on the chart. That is where it was supposed to end :)

We are getting a longer chart made. We have such precision now we actually need a chart with in-between wedges for Graeme to do what he does best.

The Engineers keep reminding me that this is the worst we will ever see Dragon. There are still alot of knobs to turn :)

Some words from Jim Jannard (all of these are combined from different comments):

It appears that the Dragon will have about 4 stops more DR and less than half the noise of the current Mysterium-X sensor.

I'm not quite sure if everyone fully understands what this actually means. This is the 1st time in history that a digital sensor blows away the dynamic range of film... and at a resolution that rivals 65mm. Couple that with 80+ fps at full resolution. Of course you can shoot lower resolution at higher frame rates. Record to a small SSD. REDCODE. Dragon. RED.

This is the equivalent to HDRx +5. Native. I guess we just obsoleted HDRx. Oh, well. Progress.

Get your wallets full... the increase in ASIC spending means the upgrade will cost a bit more. But well worth it.

UPDATE: Jarred Land added later that the Dragon will be getting a brand new IR OLPF, so the issues many have been having because of IR pollution with heavy ND filtering and the MX sensor may be a thing of the past. This is essential as the Dragon is set to be even more light sensitive, and will probably require a bit more ND than the MX sensor needed depending on where the dynamic range is biased. He also said this related to the global shutter/rolling shutter debate:

You guys are going to be thrilled...

Global Shutter creates foundational problems in other aspects of sensor design.... as much as everyone thinks they want a global shutter they really just want the side-effects. We took things to a whole different level.

UPDATE: Jannard also added a bit more about the sensor later on:

I don't think there is anything left in the "native ISO" thinking. You can shoot ISO 100 to 12,800 depending on how much noise you can tolerate.

I think "ideal" will be somewhere between ISO 400 and 2000.

Conservative... and I think the chart shows 18+ stops. But remember we still have a lot to go in calibration and color science.

I'm not sure where the 21 stops came from but clearly we see a usable 18+ stops of dynamic range. Maybe more given some tweaking. In any event, it is more than any film stock we have ever seen and certainly more than any digital sensor known to man. This is meaningful. :-)

While it's a little hard to tell where the highlight detail ends because of the blooming, it definitely looks like there is some detail in 2, and I can see it cleanly through 16, which would make this sensor at least 14-15 stops or more. It looks like there is detail in a lot more than just those stops, but at the very least if the chart is accurate it means that Dragon should match or exceed what is currently out there in terms of dynamic range, including the Arri Alexa and the Sony F65/F55. Not to spoil the excitement for some people but we do have to take it with a grain of salt until we see the real images from the camera, but there is no question this is a promising start, especially with the reported ISO 2000 sensitivity of the sensor.

We also got our first details about price. The current upgrade price looks like it's going to rise for EPIC, which previously stood at $6,000 (and this even included new owners). This is due to the need to upgrade most of the internal boards, and at this point, they are now dealing with all sorts of new R&D. It's not clear what the higher price will be, but if you're just buying an EPIC right now, even a $10,000 upgrade would still be cheaper than what people had been paying before the price drop.

Unfortunately, if you were a SCARLET owner hoping for an upgrade, it's not going to happen. That doesn't mean you're out of luck, however. From what they've said there will be a trade-in program very similar to the RED ONE, which means you'll be able to take your SCARLET and likely trade it in for full value towards an EPIC Dragon. This is going to mean that some people may not get a chance to use the Dragon sensor in their cameras if they can't afford the extra price of EPIC, but if you look at it the other way, no camera manufacturer allows you to trade in anything for the full price you paid for it and get a brand new camera with a new sensor. It's unclear what this will cost, but it's probably safe to assume it will be $10,000+ above what you already paid to get yourself into RED EPIC Dragon. It will be interesting to see if the amount changes depending on when you bought the camera, considering they've now offered the SCARLET at three completely different prices for a working body.

If the sensor can really deliver 15 stops or more, it's actually a much bigger deal than the 6K resolution or the ISO sensitivity. Increasing the dynamic range means you're going to have more room to work with when you're in difficult lighting situations. If there is anything that can save you time on set (unless you're shooting in the dark), it's being able to not worry about controlling specific parts of the image if they are too dark or too bright because you know you've got the dynamic range there. This isn't to say that you always fix it in post, but a sensor that can hold detail in almost any situation in the highs and lows makes for a more powerful grading process and a better-looking product overall.

What do you guys think? Is this exciting news or are you waiting for the real images first? If you're a SCARLET owner, what would you be willing to pay for an upgrade? Does this news mean you might not be able to afford to shoot with Dragon? What about any EPIC users, how much more do you think the upgrade will cost and does that affect you in any way?

Link: Enter the Dragon -- REDUser

Your Comment

99 Comments

It is 1:50AM and you guys are posting articles. I would to say THANKS!

January 1, 2013

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We do our best :)

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

You're quietly becoming the site of reference in digital filmmaking. Congratulations.

January 1, 2013

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Álex Montoya

Let's hope we can make some more noise in 2013 and attract as many creative individuals as possible to this community. :)

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Post on New Years? I love this site.

January 1, 2013

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Now make an IMAX 70mil sized sensor with that dynamic range capabilities and I'm totally shooting my 'The Dark Samsara Mastering' this year. S35 and VistaVision sensors are sooooooo 2012.

January 1, 2013

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Natt

wow you guys are on it... well done and Happy New Year.

January 1, 2013

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Happy New Year to you too, Jarred, looks like it's going to be quite the year. :)

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

The way you read this chart, is you have to hook the camera up to a Waveform. You then read the chips as they climb up to 110% IE clipping. You start at chip 1 and go down till you cant differentiate detail in the toe.

I feel like it cuts out somewhere around 17-18. The more important thing is that the middle grey chip, seem to fall around chip 10 or 11. This mean if we count Chip 17 lets say, as black, it holds 10 stops over and 7 stops under. Thats the significant thing. This is a more filmlike light response. Digital has always been, far more sensitive on the shadow side, while film has always held the top better. This seem like its closer to a even split, with a slight bias on the highlight side. This is the real break through.

January 1, 2013

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OK mildly under the influence of NYE celebration.... I may have been unclear on the first paragraph above. You open the lens till the #1 chip hits "clipping" at 110, then you count down to "black". Sorry for the confusing first paragraph.

January 1, 2013

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Thank you for someone finally talking about where middle grey falls. I was pretty skeptical of their claims, but that's pretty impressive for digital. Now I want to see a real picture. Still skeptical of the color quality and what-not.

January 21, 2013

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As an Epic owner, I'm extremely excited with these new tests! Hopefully the new upgrade price isn't too high, the original $6,000 price was a no brainer! I was planning on getting a Scarlet as a B cam in 2013...not sure that's a good idea now.

January 1, 2013

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Awesome stuff. This is the very reason I bought into RED!

January 1, 2013

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As a scarlet owner I feel a bit cheated. I bought a scarlet because i was assured that i will be able to upgrade it to dragon for better DR etc. Then "maybe" but, if not, they will find a way. Now it's "pay the difference to get a dragon epic". "Scarlet users should be doing backflips" said Jarred Land. Why would I do such a thing? This path program was interesting in the past. But for the scarlet ..... It's 8000$. Epic is 19000. Dragon will finally be around 10000 probably. I have to add more than 20000$. Where is the backflip thing? If i sell my scarlet on ebay I will maybe lose 1000 or 2000$. On a 29000$ camera it's almost a detail. I mean if I can find 20000$ to upgrade my scarlet, 1000 or 2000$ would be almost nothing. I feel cheated because it was in the initial deal, and because they should have told it a long time ago. I would have jump on the red one deal (as the only drawback was the no path to dragon).

January 1, 2013

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JDHink

I understand where you are coming from, I would feel the same in your position

January 1, 2013

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Peter Kelly

Well, you have a great camera in your hands and you are complaining? You are probably not shooting anything otherwise you would have been happy already. I recently bought a Scarlet and shot 2 short films currently in post production and I'm very happy with the images out of the camera, on the first short, I shot along with a Red One which also is a hell of a camera, but its too big and heavy, you need a much more expensive gear to support it. I can do run and gun with my Scarlet but not with the Red One, I shot gerrilla in 2 locations, I could have never done that with the Red One, I would have got busted by the size of the equipment.
Its always good to remember 2 things:
- Cameras are not investments for you money, they are like cars, will be outdated in no time and you lose money as soon as you buy it.
- Do never buy anything based in speculations, buy the camera for what they currently are.
You have a good deal in your hands, just go out and enjoy it.

January 1, 2013

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Marcus

Always the same arguments .... you don't own a red ...... you don't shoot anything ..... Well just read my messages. I'm not complaining about the camera, I'm complaining about red communication.

January 1, 2013

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JDHink

I did read your messages, You bought your Red based in some early information given by Red, you're probably expecting way more than it has ever been said. Red did comply with what ( at least so far) they promised: an upgrade path to scarlet users, they never mentioned about prices, and honestly what's the difference on spending probably 20k in upgrading your current camera or 20k in a fair trade (im speculating the price)? Buy cameras for what they are currently offering. Red communication wont change, they post out of excitement, usually things get better and pricier after they first announce, as long as you understand that you should be fine for the next purchases. And if you still have a problem with Red communication you can join the line along with all the others who waited 2 years for the 2/3 Scarlet fixed lens for $3K.

January 1, 2013

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Marcus

I was not expecting more than what was said. I was told "obsolescence obsolete", upgradable camera. Today's announcement just told us that it's the end of the scarlet road. Or I have to add probably 3 times the price of my camera to have a path.

January 1, 2013

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JDHink

Well maybe I shouldn't be replying again, but... “obsolescence obsolete” applies for few other things not just the sensor exchange, since I bought my Scarlet I upgraded the firmware twice and I have a a better camera today with some cool features. All the accessories will be still compatible with epic/dragon stuff. Currently there's a path from Scarlet to Dragon, a painfull one (expensive), however it's there. Scarlet is a low cost hardware, it's sort of expected to cost a lot to go to dragon, if it's a surprise for you you should research more before buying anything or you can apply for a marketing position and help Red with their communication issues :)
Im not worry, my Camera is capable of very good looking images and I dont need a Dragon sensor for the next few years I believe. Your grief is just painful to see.

January 1, 2013

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Marcus

I got the my Scarlet to get into digital cinema.
There was no promise made just talk which is cheap.
You only lose on the body.
The misc you purchased will work with anything above the Scarlet in the RED eco-system.
I for one love this option since its an option.
I have no use for Dragon and doubt it will make my learning and getting my creative ideas on screen.
Its an option that most of us can look forward too but thinking far ahead and not doing anything with what you have now is a dangerous game in this industry.
The digital cinema field is not stocks and bonds.
Its a creative medium that needs to be used at all times.

January 1, 2013

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Eric Santiago

"but if you look at it the other way, no camera manufacturer allows you to trade in anything for the full price you paid for it and get a brand new camera with a new sensor". That's true but Red is making his communication on it. It's part of the product promise. Obsolescence obsolete. If you claim "don't buy other brands, buy our camera, we will not let you down like others, look in the past, we offered red one customers super cheap epic, etc etc" you should expect people to wait for it. It's in the price. I don't take it as a gift, because it was a sale argument.

January 1, 2013

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JDHink

I hear what you're saying, but an upgrade path is an upgrade path, there was never any promise that it would cost a specific amount of money. It's unfortunate for a lot of people that they probably won't ever be able to afford Dragon, but there are still a lot of details left we don't know about. There are going to be a lot of leftover EPIC boards - who knows what they might do. If they offered $6,000 for an upgrade to EPIC with an MX sensor, would that be worth it? We don't know what they might do yet, but we do know that you can't get a deal like this from any manufacturer. It's not a consolation, but EPIC was always going to be the camera that got the most love because it cost the most.

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

I was more ranting about red communication behavior than about the prices in fact. We never had any answer about scarlet and pal users for example. When the red one was suddenly half the price of the scarlet, nobody answered about the possibility to add the red one specs into the scarlet. Just a yes or a no would have been enough. I would have preferred "we announce the scarlet camera but given the price and the positioning of the epic, there is not a chance that you will have a better camera with some dragon upgrade in the future".

January 1, 2013

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JDHink

I'm not expecting anything like that. It worked with the red one and the epic. With the scarlet it's a different situation. Some epic owners already screamed when people were just asking if 4.5k would be possible to implement in the scarlet. An epic for 14000$, they would have a heart attack. I was just hoping for a dragon scarlet with better DR and iso, even just 4.5k, around 10000$. Too bad.

January 1, 2013

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JDHink

Are you not pretty pissed Joe, and for that matter Ryan, that you will not be able to upgrade your Scarlets to dragon sensor?

January 1, 2013

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Peter Kelly

Why would I be pissed? No one held a gun to my head and forced me to buy it, and the camera doesn't all of a sudden become extinct just because a better version exists.

Also, who knows what will happen in a year when the upgrade program finally starts rolling around to SCARLET. They already stated they would start with EPICs first, so I don't realistically see any SCARLET owners actually having the option until well into next year.

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Well you said one of the reasons you bought a scarlet was for the upgrade part to dragon sensor. Now that is not going to be possible if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't mean to attack you btw.

January 1, 2013

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Peter Kelly

Yes they apparently did promise the Epic to Dragon upgrade would be $6000, as you said in your article. Now they switched that without consideration.

Imagine buying an Epic for $39,000 just a couple months ago, thinking the Dragon would be $6000 more and available soon. A few weeks later, RED cuts the price of the Epic in half as Sony announces the F5 and F55. You'd be devastated as we heard from some who were. And then just a few weeks after that you're told that the $6000 upgrade won't be available but some upgrade will be made available at some unspecified but higher price at some point in some future. You'd be forgiven for ramming your head through the wall at that point.

What we've learned over the last year from RED and BMD and Digital Bolex and Kinefinity et al. should be clear:

1) Buy or rent what you need right now regardless of what's promised for the future. If you sense a product is at the end of its lifecycle and will be replaced or outmoded soon, rent instead of buy.

2) Don't pre-order anything unless you can cancel at no charge, no money is tied up in the preorder or is of no consequence to you if it is, and you are able to make unbiased decisions even after preordering.

3) Don't buy things from Kickstarter unless you are essentially being charitable. If you actually receive something you bought on Kickstarter at some point consider it a bonus.

4) Pay no attention whatsoever to future upgrade scheduling, quality, or promised pricing. Consider that all marketing spiel and be pleasantly surprised if it ever materializes.

5) Buy into a system that's in stock and returnable for a full refund from a reputed dealer. Buy the camera itself first in a minimal configuration, ensure you like it first, and then buy rigging for it...do not buy rigging for a camera that you don't have direct experience working with and aren't sure when it will arrive.

6) If a camera can't be purchased on returnable terms, go ahead and rent it if you can't borrow one from a friend for a few days. Consider the rental or restocking fee an insurance policy that you are buying into the correct ecosystem. Getting used to renting is only going to be a good thing for you...may save you the purchase price of the entire camera and ecosystem.

7) Assume all samples and reports on a camera's performance prior to its being generally available to the public are bunk. Look for independent appraisals once a camera is generally available...preproduction cameras are typically made available only to people "on the team" under conditions where certain problems are not to be mentioned. And nothing replaces direct personal testing in a risk-free situation.

All that said it's fun to keep up with what's coming down the pike. However don't make bad financial or planning decisions while you're having all that fun. Having to wait an extra couple of months because you didn't preorder may not give you "first kid on the block" bragging rights but compare that momentary glee to all the people who have been frustrated if not straight shafted in a 2012 more memorable for its marketing than its cameras.

January 1, 2013

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Peter

They didn't promise one from SCARLET to Dragon, that's what both of us were talking about. Companies don't owe customers anything, as much as we like to think they do. If people don't like the product, they'll stop buying it, and the company will have to adjust.

Imagine if you bought a C300 for $16,000 in early August, mere months after they first became readily available, and then Canon announces that they've produced a camera capable of the same image quality with an external recorder for only $6,500? Think of all the money those people would have saved...

People buy cameras for all sorts of different reasons, and renting is just as viable an option depending on what you're doing and the project.

Clearly we need a forum for you because you have quite a hard time staying even remotely on topic, and for someone who runs a recording studio for a living, you spend an unbelievable amount of time on this site talking about cameras and giving advice about what people who shoot for a living should be buying or renting.

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Well Joe I want to thank you and Ryan and the rest of the people here I've learned so much from this past year as I expand my service offerings into video. I've always made it clear that I contribute here strictly at your pleasure and will withdraw accordingly. I have the setup that fits me now and am happy I was given an opportunity to share back the very hard-won lessons decades of investing in media production equipment have given me.

Have a happy 2013!

January 1, 2013

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Peter

I don't think Joe means you should leave, but maybe it's time to sit back, post less, shoot and learn more so that when you do give advice it's accurate and from field experience.

Nothing wrong with being green, everyone was or is at some point.

Happy New Year man.

January 1, 2013

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Kholi

You know what Kholi I think I've contributed everything I have to say and it's time for me to speak in product rather than words. And the product really isn't there yet and all my attention should be on that. Bantering with youzeguys is a very fun thing to do while I sip my morning tea or wait for something to render but I can find something else to kill time with. I'm either all in or all out on things...just my personality and why I (eventually) get good. I learn a lot from writing explanations and being forced to defend my position in debate but it's too much for a lot of people.

Making a film worth seeing (obviously music videos in my case) is a serious challenge! I salute you for mastering it to the level you have. The equipment is there now and I should start ignoring the topic and thinking more about art. You are completely right in saying that an awful lot of things you initially think may matter don't in practice. Learning what you do need to obsess over, while making everything else routine, is most of mastery. Equipment doesn't much matter after all, but it's fun.

Anyway, please don't deny me the distinction of being kicked out of No Film School! =D

January 1, 2013

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Peter

Joe,
Without going into full disclosure, I can safely say that the C100 with an external recorder is not....not the same image coming off of the c300 natively.......!

January 1, 2013

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WMD

Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't exactly the same as the hardware is different internally - but I wasn't saying it because I necessarily think it - that was a conversation Peter has been bringing up for a while.

I would be interested in seeing the difference between the two though, and how much of that difference will actually make its way through post production. I do know the FS100 and the F3 can look very different, even though they share the same sensor.

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Peter, excellent summary and thoughts!

January 1, 2013

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Ron

Peter, wherever the advice is coming from or what you may be basing it on, I would have to say that your post is really good advice to how to be measured, conservative and rational in your camera purchases and avoid excessive disappointment and surprises.

For some people, there are other criteria that are so paramount to them that they are willing to take a risk, but I think it is important for people to acknowledge that risk.

January 2, 2013

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there was never any price put on anything, and it always comes down to money, be it an upgrade or a trade in or just selling and buying. So it's moot.

I think the point is that Jarred and Jim always maintained that those investing in RED win. You can be assured by their track record that they will provide good opportunities.

Also remember the recent 'attitude adjustment' post about looking to yourself to create value, not the camera per se. RED provides an opportunity, not inherent value.

January 1, 2013

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brett

I wonder how will such high dynamic range affect midtone/shadow, especially skintone, as the higher the DR, the more sacrifice on midtone signal bandwidth.

January 1, 2013

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Marvin

That's interesting Marvin- I have never heard of nor considered that trade-off. I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

January 2, 2013

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FYI, only the very brightest step is at clip. Yes, it may appear that lower steps are clipping, but they're not clipping in the raw data. We ask our sensor team to put the top step at "just" clip so that we can measure the DR easily and also confirm we're getting everything due to the top step "just" clipping.

January 1, 2013

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Thanks for stopping by and clarifying Graeme. Is that confirming what I was looking at by seeing detail starting at 2? It's hard to tell without looking at the RAW data from the camera if 17 and 18 are above the noise floor, but do you believe those stops will have usable dynamic range?

Also, where do you think you'd place middle grey at this point? How many stops over/under are you seeing right now in the testing?

If you can't answer these we still appreciate you correcting any misinformation that might be floating around. I'm being conservative in my estimates right now since the sensor is still being tweaked.

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

If the 1st step is at clip, any point below that has detail, so the jump from step 1 to step 2 marks one stop of DR. Each step below that you can differentiate from the background counts as another stop of DR.

There will be a wide range of valid values that you can place mid-grey at, just as with our other cameras. That's the beauty of how we have ISO gain work on our cameras.

Looking at the raw data here I can see steps 1 through 19 inclusive which would indicate a 18 stop DR, and as you say, and as Jim says, the sensor team is still tweaking.... I can't wait to see what they send me next to analyze!

January 1, 2013

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Thanks again for responding Graeme, looks like some pretty amazing stuff. I've added your response to the post above.

January 1, 2013

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Joe Marine
Editor-at-Large
Shooter/Writer/Director

Holy fuck, RED.

A near IMAX resolution that can film at 80fps? Film is definitely being put into the coffin, and within the next 5-10 years the nails will be in and it will be deep underground.

But shit, 6k at 80fps! I wonder what speeds they are aiming to get at 4k and 1080p!

January 1, 2013

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Tyler

Film is not being put in the coffin for this alone - film still has the best looking skin tones motion and tonality and "magic factor" - I.E. Compare looking at the Master shot on film vs Hitchcock shot on the Red Epic. Of course, it's not that simple of a comparison, but I still prefer film.

January 1, 2013

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I'm not exactly sure why this is being said but, IMAX/65mm film resolves fully at around 10-12k. 6K resolution would be just over the "diminishing returns" point of 35mm film. The DR latitude however is now being surpassed.

Medium format film and even digital Hasselblad pulls out about 10-12k. So this is HALF of 65mm, not nearly equal at all.

January 1, 2013

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You mean to say 10-12 megapixel, which is about equivalent to 4k. 6k has more than double the information than 4k.

January 2, 2013

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False. Medium format is FAR beyond 10 to 12 megapixels. 35mm still film (practically vista vision) is around 20 megapixels with some of the slower fine grained films. I would guess that Imax is around maybe 80 megapixels. Once you get enough sensor, you're really limited by the resolving power of the lens. I've seen photos from the Fuji GW690 still camera that are only limited in resolution by the lens, and the film still had plenty of grains left for more detail.

January 21, 2013

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