February 10, 2014

Blackmagic Production Camera 4K Now Shipping at a Reduced Price of $3,000

Amidst several delays, many of us have been eagerly anticipating the release of the Blackmagic Production Camera 4K, but the time has finally come, and rest assured -- your patience was well worth it. The Production Camera 4K is now shipping, but not at the initial $4,000 price. In hopes that it would become accessible to more filmmakers, Blackmagic is now offering the camera at $2,995. Continue on to find out more about Blackmagic's announcement.

Here's a bit from the press release:

Blackmagic Design today announced the Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is now shipping and with a new low price of US$2,995. This new low price will be available for all customers, including existing pre-orders. Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is available now from Blackmagic Design resellers worldwide for only US$2,995.

"The support from the creative community for the Blackmagic Cinema Camera and Production Camera 4K has been amazing,” said Grant Petty, CEO, Blackmagic Design. “As with all of our products, we work hard in production to reduce costs so we can pass along the savings, even to our first Blackmagic Production Camera 4K customers. The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is a perfect companion for ATEM Production 4K switchers and we hope the new low price will help more customers to expand their Ultra HD live production set ups with even more camera angles!"

As we saw a couple of weeks ago, the footage the Blackmagic 4K is capable of capturing is absolutely breathtaking, so if you haven't pre-ordered, but are itching to get your hands on one, they're now available at all Blackmagic resellers worldwide -- though, you might have to give them some time to catch up with the announcement.

For more information about availability, as well as Blackmagic 4K features, check out Blackmagic's press release.

Links:

Your Comment

242 Comments

But..but...now you can't say "4k for 4k" :<

February 10, 2014

-2
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Yes you can pay 4k if you insist

February 10, 2014

-1
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Jason

I sell these ones for 4k. Call me.

February 10, 2014

0
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LOL!

February 10, 2014

2
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Gene (not the 3...

February 10, 2014

0
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Peter

It would appear.

How many people are still dragging their feet in protest into 4K?

February 10, 2014

-1
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Gene (not the 3...

Looking at the price drop and all I am guessing they'll show us something we haven't seen at NAB and are probably ready to cannibalize their near to be shipped cameras once again...

February 10, 2014

1
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Raul

This just means we will see yet a new camera at NAB this year, If they do I think it will hurt them, not help them. People are growing tired of how they are doing business. The cameras dont even have some of the most basic things you need. They are a sensor that dumps data in a box. Its does a great job at that but thats it.

February 10, 2014

2
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Would have paid even 6k if it shot 4k proress 444 and 13stop dr

February 10, 2014

1
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JustCallDBoss

May well be that they sold so many of them already in advance that they got a better price on the sensor, and possibly other components, because they could order a bigger bulk.

February 10, 2014

-1
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Thyl Engelhardt

The pressure of the GH4 is on?
I just shot my first few productions on my new BMCC, kinda wished I waited a bit longer for this one, but then again im pretty happy with the 2.5k version.

If only this means the firmware updates start rolling out again for the 2.5k version :)

February 10, 2014

0
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Exactly my thought.

February 10, 2014

-3
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Jesper

does anyone know if it's going to ship with the compressed CinemaDNG codec, or just ProRes HQ for now?

February 10, 2014

-2
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luke

Just Prores on shipping. CinemaDNG will follow later, hopefully not too long a wait.

February 10, 2014

1
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do you guys think they will release another version of the 4k camera, that will have a mount other than ef ?
they did make a bmcc version with m43 mount...

February 10, 2014

1
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othermount

of course i meant the "a" in "a mount" as the use of "an" in "an apple". i was not referring to sony a-mount, which is also a mount ... :P

February 10, 2014

1
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othermount

And you are the other mount...:D

February 10, 2014

0
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TJL

This is some kind of weird genius conversation... Deep...

February 10, 2014

-1
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Kraig

I would buy that in a few heartbeats.

February 10, 2014

1
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Bah Bah Bah Bah... Conversation at Black Magic Company.
Black Magic R&D Person: "Did you hear Panasonic is going to release a $2000 4K Camera"
Black Magic Sales Person: "Panasonic did what?"
Black Magic Sales Person: "Not before we release ours"
Black Magic R&D Person: "Ours isn't ready..."
Black Magic Sales Person: "Fuck that Sell it, first we'll fix all the bugs later"

February 10, 2014

2
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Maximus Moretta

How much do we trust this company right now? Hmmm. GH4 is a far more attractive proposition if only for the fact that it's a) also a stills camera and b) you might actually get to own the camera you've bought before we colonise Mars.

February 10, 2014

-2
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GH4k sounds really cool. But, I can't get over the soap opera / sonyish look. It doesn't look cinematic at all, just like the GH3 didn't. I want to make movies, not reality TV!

If the GH4k went with more of the look the GH2 had, that would indeed be interesting.

Even the 5D raw image will still be leagues ahead of the GH4k image in many areas including DR.

February 10, 2014

-1
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Kaleb

Please enough with the "film" look and not a "film" look

BLACK MAGIC you still have supporters they just gave two fingers to all the haters out there doubted them despite updates and actual footage .

I do not doubt that price drop and urge was due to coming competition but it is what it is and i salute black magic for being a continious game changers.

February 10, 2014

2
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JAYE

Well the GH2 was an amazing little camera. The GH3's sensor produces an image that looks like Sony cameras, which is to be expected... being a Sony sensor in the first place. All footage needs to be treated and graded to get a cinematic look if that's what you're after. But with Sony... I'm sorry, it looks like an infomercial no matter what you do to it. The F3, FS100, FS700 or the GH3, no matter how you light and grade it... it looks cheesy to me.

February 10, 2014

3
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Kaleb

Post some examples of you achieving this film look you speak of, then tell us how it was achieved. You bring absolutely nothing to the conversation without citing examples or demonstrating credibility. Just more meaningless talk.

February 10, 2014

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ArchiCine

LAUGHS @ the comment sony has no film look. The Sony F65 IS THE FINEST and best digital camera around in terms of dynamic range in the world today, Also the sony f55 and f5 are amazing peices of technology also. So again tell us how you figure sony has a soap day tv look , better yet post some before and after examples instead of blabbering about nothing .

February 10, 2014

-1
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JAYE

If you think an F3 looks cheesy you should get your eyes checked.

February 10, 2014

2
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All in the color grade. I own and use (2) GH2s, the GH3, the BMCC (m43), and BMPCC for different purposes, and the only difference I can see in terms of "film look" versus "video look" is that I can get cinematic results faster and easier in post with the Blackmagic cameras. The Panasonics can make a very nice image too, they just take a little more time and effort to coax it out of the files.

February 10, 2014

-2
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(oh and lenses and lighting matter more than the cameras anyway)

February 10, 2014

-2
Reply

I agree with everything you just wrote!

February 10, 2014

1
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marklondon

We're allowed to agree with each other in the comments, Mark? This'll never work. Madness :-)

February 10, 2014

2
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The nicest footage I've seen from GH's were made with Leica and Voightlander lens.

February 10, 2014

-2
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Gene (not the 3...

Kaleb, check out the GH3 teaser trailer for my next TV episode and let me if it looks cinematic or not. Thanks! http://youtu.be/Rok11azSfLI

February 10, 2014

1
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Cal

oops, let me *know* if...

February 10, 2014

0
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Cal

No it doesn't.

February 10, 2014

-1
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Steve

Not at all

February 10, 2014

1
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Birdman

Sorry, Cal. I don't mean to be harsh. I'm only saying this because you asked, but I have to agree with Steve and Birdman. Cinematic can mean different things to different people but, if you mean it the way I think you do, the answer is no. I'd say it suffers mostly from poor lighting, exposure and grading. A better grade may help spruce it up a bit but there's not much you can do about the lighting and exposure.

Perhaps this is your best work to date, which may be why you're proud of it. In all honesty, you're going to have to start looking at your work with a more discerning eye because I'm afraid these images just don't look as good as you seem to think they do. Again, I'm only trying to be helpful.

February 10, 2014

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Brian

I don't know what commenters here are looking for. That footage looked very good. We have camera users critiquing camera users in this blog. We don't have the audience watching the shows critiquing. We need to be careful we aren't splitting hairs four ways---which is a common practice at this blog.

February 10, 2014

1
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Gene (not the 3...

Gene, Cal asked the question in a manner that invites the cinematographer's perspective. The story might be engaging as hell but that's not what he inquired about. I didn't like the way it looked and I tried to tell him why. It's the nicest thing I can do for him. Of course, he should take it with a grain of salt but I'd be doing him a disservice by trying to spare his feelings when I assume he wanted honest feedback. It's not the worst I've seen but it's not that good, either. Obviously, you think differently. All I can say is: Cal, don't listen to Gene. You need to step it up, buddy.

Sorry if this is a dupe comment but NFS seems to be acting funky with my usual email address.

February 10, 2014

0
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Brian

The term 'filmic' has changed. Old filmic is gone. It's all new now. I don't think we need to keep trying to make our new cameras look like old cameras.

I get what you're saying. But I still think we all need to consider what the 'outside' world is thinking and not keep hanging on to what we are used to. We need to do like the REO Speedwagon song says, roll with the changes.

February 10, 2014

1
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Gene (not the 3...

35mm film still looks far superior to even the best digital camera. New is cheaper and easier, but it does not look better.

February 11, 2014

1
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stewe

What I noticed immediately was that it looked like it was sharpened too much electronically. Either in camera or in post. This over-sharpening destroys any kind of film look, it always looks like (bad) video.
If your lenses aren't that sharp, then shoot softer images, it doesn't matter, but do never electronically sharpen your images!
First thing to do if you want any kind of film look is finding the "sharpness" slider in your camera and setting it to the lowest level possible!

February 11, 2014

0
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Heiko

Also, a lot of it has to do with lenses. The kit lenses on the GH2/GH3 look overly crisp and digital. Swap those out for some vintage Nikkor lenses and everything goes back to normal...

February 10, 2014

-1
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listen to luke he knows best lol

February 10, 2014

0
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I agree with Luke! My BMPC and my Nikkors are all I need.

February 10, 2014

0
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Dan

Well, I used to have vintage glass when I shot with the GH2. I loved it, it seriously looked amazing for what it was. After that, I tested out the GH3 EXTENSIVELY, with all kinds of vintage / Zeiss glass, like I did with the GH2. Did not like the look, at all. The sensor is fundamentally different and the motion looks like a soap opera, that's just the way it is. Some things just can't be helped with grading or lighting unfortunately.

RED, BMPC, Alexa... those cameras just have the *mojo*.

February 10, 2014

-1
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Kaleb

Didn't use the GH3, here's hoping they fix that in the GH4 though!

February 10, 2014

0
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February 10, 2014

0
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The GH4 sounds really nice with 4K video at 4:2:0 internal 8 bit quality. Yet when I compare that to the BMPC which offers 4K in 12-13 bit raw or alternatively 4K in ProRess 4:2:2 10 bit, the difference in image quality between both camera's will be obvious to most professionals. The form factor is another thing though, I think that is where the GH4 has it's strength. I use the GH2 for 2 years now, and it's very small and handy for certain jobs where a big camera is just too clumsy or too heavy.

Erwin

February 10, 2014

-2
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Erwin

The GH2 might make up the difference with battery life, a time remaining gauge, a media remaining gauge, and hackability.

February 10, 2014

1
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With the GH4, there's always that breakout box with SDI (422 10-bit output).

February 10, 2014

0
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The BMPC has also 800mbps vs a 100mbps on the GH4... not to mention the global shutter. Personally I think BM won't announce any new cameras at NAB '14, they'll rather put some work in the firmwares of the whole camera line and hopefully offer new external recorder etc. But I'm pretty sure at NAB '15 will have a Pocket 4k and the faster UHS-II sd standard will be on the market.

February 10, 2014

0
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Alexander

+1

February 10, 2014

0
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I hope they'll enter the gear sector someday and put some pressure with better prices.

February 10, 2014

0
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MrFloppy

@Alexander - Panasonic says that their new GH4 sensor have a much faster refresh rate, which mitigates the rolling shutter effect. Now, BMD 4K camera has a S35 sensor vs. MFT in GH4 but then Panasonic may be offering other features - higher FPS, focus peaking, zebras, faster auto focus, stills capability, etc - once it's released.

February 10, 2014

0
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DLD

You're right, but at 4k the GH4 can go up to 24fps, the BMPC up to 30. Unfortunately BMPC lacks any higher frame rates, that's true. I really hope BM put some work on new firmware features - the BMPC can handle at least 50/60fps at 1080p in prores, so I'm sure they can implement it if they want... Gh4 looks very promising, especially if the price is around 1500$... but at the end I somehow prefer the detail, dynamic range and colour science of the BM. It's still very early to judge though..

February 10, 2014

0
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Alexander

It appears the BMC can go up to 50i60i, but only in 1080 if i read that correctly on the BM site.

February 11, 2014

0
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Nick

"better' rolling shutter performance does not compare to a global or mechanical shutter.

Doesn't matter if your shot is static or not, there's a difference in the motion of objects passing or moving through frame.

This is why Alexa Studio and F65 have actual mechanical shutters.

February 10, 2014

0
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Kholi

So, if one absolutely positively must have fast moving objects in perfect focus, s/he rent a DB, a BMD 4K or an F55 (F65 and Alexa, I assume, will be beyond the means of most folks with limited budgets) to get that shot. Otherwise, you can change the angle, loosen the focus, back off, slow down or use some other trick like the front projection. It's like that old Henny Youngman joke, "A patient goes to a doctor, raises his arm and says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" Doctor replies, "Well, then don't do this."
.
PS. I am sure we've all seen the FS 700 240 fps videos - rolling shutter but practically no motion artifacts due to a high enough frame rate. I assume that, even if GH4 at 96 fps does have some difficulties, they will be quite limited under most "real world" situations. And, when it doesn't suffice, by all means, get a different cam.

February 10, 2014

0
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DLD

Not Fair, GH4 has a 4:2:2 10 bit HDMI out

February 10, 2014

0
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Archie

By the time you add the external component required for 4k 10 bit with gh4 and external monitor it will infact be more bulkier and less compact than the Black Magic 4k.

February 10, 2014

0
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JAYE

Not to mention more expensive. You are talking a $5K+ setup for the GH4 shooting uncompressed footage. With this reduced price the BMPC can do it for under $4K. If only the Blackmagic had higher frame rates and NDs I would replace my current 5DML/FS100/C100 setup in a heartbeat.

February 10, 2014

0
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Everyone here complains about features or price. Well a GH4 with an external recorder is still cheap. People need to realise you need to spend a bit to get what you want. Open your wallets, sell that car that is more expensive than you need and invest it in a camera setup that makes you money, not drains it like a car.... or girlfriend ;) Besides if the external recorder is say a Gemini with an awesome monitor then bonus!

February 10, 2014

0
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@Dock, @JAYE - by the time the summer arrives, a GH4 4K setup will probably have a reasonably priced 4K recorder from outside manufacturer like Atomos or even BMD itself. The total price for such a rig is probably going to be in the $3K-$3.5 range ($1,500 for GH4, $500 for the SDI attachment, ~ $1000-$1500 for the 4K recorder) or pretty close to what BMD 4K can deliver out of the box. Of course, you can still shoot to the internal cards on GH4 at about half the price of BMD 4K, if that's good enough for your requirements.

February 10, 2014

0
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DLD

Speaking of "obvious to most professionals", I find it delicious that it takes a professional to see and define in words the difference between the $80,000.00 ARRI Alexa and the $600.00 GH2 + Driftwood hack cameras.

February 10, 2014

0
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Gene (not the 3...

+1

February 10, 2014

0
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This is going to eliminate the DB

February 10, 2014

0
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After the Panasonic announcement who wasn't expecting this lol.

February 10, 2014

0
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Trza

The biggest issue with the camera for me is that it seems to only shoot UHD, not real academy 4K. This is not consistent with the "cinema-appeal" of BMs cameras.

February 10, 2014

0
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stokstad

If I remember right the UHD format is due to the camera aimed at broadcast studio and not narrative work

February 10, 2014

0
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Lee

Important when I print back to film

February 10, 2014

0
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BMPC isn't part of the 'cinema" cameras line. This is why BM clearly designate it as "Production" camera and recommend it for broadcast and doc work.

February 10, 2014

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Alexander

Keep in mind Red MX footage at 4K looks more like 2.5K because of their strong OLPF, hence the appeal for 6K in Dragon. BM cameras are much sharper but they have moire problems. It'll be interesting to see how the moire issues pan out with this one. If it does have moire, Mosaic Engineering seem to make OLPF filters that don't kill much of the original sharpness, so that will be a key factor in "perfecting" the image this camera produces.

February 10, 2014

0
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"If" =]

February 10, 2014

0
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Kholi

Or, "if" it is a problem. That's more the question. C100/C300 have moire, it's generally not aproblem.

Not the same case on the 2.5K... but, call it a hunch that it's not an issue on the 4K.

February 10, 2014

0
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Kholi

Why should that make a difference, most movie centers use a 2k projector and require a 4k scaled downed to 1080p source, also 2k is good enough resolution wise for the big screen, so technically the only thing one would gain by having a Cinema standard 4k would be the badge associated with that and nothing else.

February 10, 2014

0
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JAYE

Next up: Canon is announcing a revolutionary camera that shoots 1080P at 60 FPS! Coming in 2016.

February 10, 2014

0
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Swissted

word

February 10, 2014

0
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nowaycanon

Second that.

February 10, 2014

0
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Darren

Yeah, but it'll have an IMAX size sensor!

February 10, 2014

0
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it would be funny if this was just a joke...

February 10, 2014

0
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^That was funny

February 10, 2014

0
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Anthony Marino

lol

February 10, 2014

0
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L-O-L Swissted!!

February 10, 2014

0
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Gene (not the 3...

But will it have a global shutter? What is the dynamic range?

February 10, 2014

0
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Tzedekh

I still have hopes that Blackmagic can bring slow-motion via firmware to this camera, even 48fps at 1080p in burst mode will be great! Anybody knows something about that? Cheers

February 10, 2014

0
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V

GH4 pressure was likely the culprit.

February 10, 2014

0
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moebius22

That and the fact that they're so late to begin with.

February 10, 2014

0
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Pat

It is too bad for them that they haven't already been able to sell their first wave of the BM4K. Building cameras is a new uptaking with them--they're in the pains of cutting teeth right now!

February 11, 2014

0
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Gene (not the 3...

I remember them once saying that they only create products where there is a clear gap in the market so I'm hoping to god that they start to come out with some genuinely affordable accessories this year at NAB. An affordable SDI EVF would make me do a happy dance (c'mon BMD - we all know you read this thing) ;) x

February 10, 2014

0
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Kraig

How many people are actually going to shoot cinema on any of these cameras. The whole bitrate thing is a bit misleading. Most are only delivering for the web. Chances are, if you're shooting a film, you'll shoot with a camera that has a bit more about it for the crew. Guaranteed, three days in everyone will be shouting at this little beast. Anything that gets in the way of the actual business of shooting takes down a shoot very very quickly. So much about the BMC line is off. Not saying that DSLRs are right either, just they don't pretend to be and we take their quirks as part of the fun. Call a unit a 'cinema' camera then that's what it should be. This just isn't.

February 10, 2014

0
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Competition is good for the consumers. The web is going to 4K and the 4K BluRay is supposedly just around the corner (the corner being a year). All cameras, especially on the "low end", will have their quirks. GH4's bit rate is too low. BMD has no "full" 4K. All this means is that new $5K cams will be absolutely perfect and include every feature under the stars. (or not)
-
BTW, B&H still lists it at $3.995.

February 10, 2014

0
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DLD

The people who are really laughing in all this are the guys who make the hard drives. Laughing so hard right now.

February 10, 2014

0
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Unfortunately for the SSD manufacturers, the BM cameras were built to support a larger SSD chassis which is discontinued by almost all major brands. Retailers are selling the old stock for a hefty markup, but the manufacturers don't benefit from this. There's a black hole forming in the compatible SSD market right now.

February 10, 2014

0
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Samsung has just announced pricing on its new V-Nand 1 TB SSD - $615. And it can write at 520 MB/s. This surely beats the CFast 2, SxS, XQD, P2, SRM and all the other cards.

February 11, 2014

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DLD

It's odd that some commenters are saying 4K doesn't have a future because standard DVDs are outselling BluRay DVDs. They are thinking that since 4K dvd players and DVDs won't outsell standard DVDs 4K can't survive. BluRay hasn't withered away even though it hasn't yet outsold Standard definition. 4K will not wither and disappear either. 4K is going strong, obviously.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

BM does it again!!!!

February 10, 2014

0
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The first thing I thought was, this is could be a really good thing or a really bad thing. I want to stay optimistic but the affordable dream cam might be right around the corner....S35, internal 4k 12 bit RAW/prores, 2k 12 bit 444/10 bit 422 all up to 240 fps, plus a real lowlight monster thats just a little more compact than the Ex3 and of course for under 10 grand. Oh and weather sealed too. Haha. But seriously, it shouldnt be too hard to get at least higher frame rates and 10 bit internal 422 with a longer lasting removable battery. Ok I'll shut up.

February 10, 2014

0
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Anthony Marino

So lets say UHD when it is UHD not 4k.

Please. Please. Please.

Not a big GH fan but the GH4 does 4096x2160. That is 4k.

Thanks,
Robert A. Ober

February 10, 2014

0
Reply

This is supposed to be a production cam, and it sports a 6G-SDI output for exactly that reason. Of course it does UHD because it is supposed to do UHD for UHD broadcasting!

February 11, 2014

0
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Heiko

Then don't call it 4k was the point.

Robert A. Ober

February 19, 2014

0
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People are never satisfied! This is a great great great camera.

February 10, 2014

0
Reply

Why are you guys complaining about 4k vs UHD, literally none of you are finishing in 4k, and if you were finishing in 4k this is the wrong camera to use anyway. Just stop it and take another look at what you get for $2995.

February 10, 2014

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ryan

Can you please say that again ... this time in All caps

February 10, 2014

0
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Nigel

Say it as many times as you want. Some people are not going to get it.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Because we were not allowed to call 1080p 2K, calling UHD 4K is exactly the same as calling 1080p 2K. Marketing lies.

February 10, 2014

0
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checks on credit card ..... needs to put money on ....... "Who the f*&^ owes me money?!!!!

February 10, 2014

0
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Nigel

Sorry to say, but the news is a little too late for BM camera.......

February 10, 2014

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Al

Can't believe people still compare the image you get from the BlackMagic cameras to the GH3 and GH4K. its like comparing apples to oranges, both great fruit just not the same. Its all about preference at this point.

Myself I prefer the BM look if its graded correctly. GH3 looks like video (plasticky) BM looks like film. Sick of all these comparisons on every forum online.

February 10, 2014

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Dimi

Im not sure why people are grousing here ...... in 2006 i paid roughly 5 or 6 grand for my HVX200 plus P2 cards then i bought the 60GB dump drive for 1500 ..... all of which i still have today and they work just fine. Now you can get a 4K camera for 3K plus SSD's and people are complaining about this and that ? seriously ? All the cameras coming out are great ... and they will al have their little quirks. but this is not the world of the filmaker. Enjoy all the new tools and their affordability and shut the hell up

February 10, 2014

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Nigel

Now the world

February 10, 2014

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Nigel

Two things:
1 it doesn't overcrank so sadly its not for me - I'm not buying the Panny either, still some VERY interesting cams coming down the pipe.
2 I love how no-one even mentions RED in this discussion anymore. Remember them? How we getting on with our RED RAY players, our '3K for 3K' and our 'always upgradeable' RED MXs and Scarlets?

February 10, 2014

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marklondon

True! I know it could never happen but how nice it would've been if Red was able to offer a Red One dragon type upgrade. Ive read a while back they may offer it to the Scarlet, but for the price of the red one mx I wouldn't be surprised if the image was still better than the gh4 and bm4k. Probably a close match in low light, and grades 2 twice as good as the gh4. I think a company like Red could've kept going to satisfiy both the low end/high end crowd but I guess when you're a billionaire you can get bored pretty easily.

February 10, 2014

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Anthony Marino

Really, Mark? I wouldn't have pegged you for a RED-hater baiter. Anyhoo, the Scarlet is upgradeable to Dragon. I have no idea what's going on with the REDRAY player. 3K for $3K stopped being a thing even when the 2/3" Scarlet was still on the table…and that was a 2009 price. I don't recall any other manufacturer offering anything close to that at the time. To compare that to 4K for $3K 5 years later isn't really fair. As for the R1, they gave FULL purchase price credit towards the purchase of the Epic.

I think it's actually refreshing to not include RED in this discussion for a change because the cameras are in different classes. Until productions that have the budget to use any camera they want for an A-Cam would routinely and SERIOUSLY narrow the choices down to the GH4K (or BMPC4K) and the RED Dragon, those comparisons are silly. RED toyed with the idea of a super low entry point but switched gears and left that segment to the other players. For some reason, people got stuck on the notion RED makes cameras for the most financially challenged among us - and they simply don't. Their cameras are competitively priced and spec'd compared to who and what they view as competition. It's that simple.

February 10, 2014

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Brian

They were spooked by Canon's cinema line. Now everyone's bringing bazookas to knife fights.

February 10, 2014

0
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Saied

That's not really true. Firstly, the C300 was originally $16K. That's hardly the entry level price bracket of the GH4K and BMPC4K. Secondly, if anything, everyone was spooked by 3K for $3K. People scoffed at RED until they actually delivered the R1 for $17.5K. The mere mention of a $3K camera from them doing what a $150K camera did a few years prior lit a fire under Sony and Panasonic. I think the C300/500/100 were more a reaction to what RED was cooking up in general (relatively affordable cinema cameras) versus the other way around, although keeping Scarlet comparable in price to the C300 was probably a consideration at the time.

Like I said before, once RED started adding things like HDRx and other features the price crept up to ~$4500 for the brain alone. That $3K figure was dead maybe a full year before the camera eventually came out. So, RED changed their minds on the bargain basement entry level market. I think it was a very wise move for them. Just read the comments on NFS to see why. This space is heating up. Consumers at this level have become spoiled, cynical, fickle, want the world for practically nothing and will turn on you in a second. Someone has already asked why someone would buy a Digital Bolex now. Catering to a higher end means there's less cutthroat competition, the people don't mind paying for quality, expectations aren't nearly as unreasonable and the users are more likely to be able to get the most out of the equipment instead of claiming their work sucks because the camera only records in 8 bits.

Sorry if this is a dupe comment but NFS seems to be acting funky with my usual email address.

February 10, 2014

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Brian

actually, the C300 was priced at $20k, then the price was lowered to $16k when RED announced their price.

February 10, 2014

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VinceGortho

Vince, that's true. However, they never actually sold any at that price so, to be fair, I used the $16K figure. But, that $20K price illustrates my point even more: RED didn't get spooked out of the sub-$4K camera market because of the C300. In fact, by the time Ted was running around NAB with the fixed-lens Scarlet, he was saying the price for that config would be between $6K and $7K.

February 10, 2014

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Brian

The only time commenters bring up Red is when a post is about ARRI, and vice-verse.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Everyone here should be grateful that they can get a camera with these specs at a price this low. Even if this camera was 8K with 18 stops of dynamic range you'd still find something to complain about.

February 10, 2014

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Birdman

Yes, it's true, we are spoiled. The more spoiled the more complaints.

If we could just sit back and savor how good we have it.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

+1

February 14, 2014

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Kuk

I just queefed my pants............

February 10, 2014

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GD10

As somebody on the verge of buying a new camera, I'm thoroughly enjoying the fight that is currently going on. Here's to meeting my budget.

February 10, 2014

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Nate

the problem with blackmagic is their firmware. You pretty much have to expect that very few changes if any will be made once you buy the camera. And their firmware is archaic and not very smart/or fast to operate/.

February 10, 2014

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cee

What are you talking about firmware, Black magic firmware updates in regards to problems such as white orbs problems etc are alot faster than SONY's, red's, canon's etc. The only hault on updates have been raw and it has a history of being release 4-5 months at max after each camera.

I was waiting on the day for this amazing camera, global shutter alone is an amazing selling point and the older cameras are good also.

February 10, 2014

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JAYE

He is not just talking firmware development in terms of fixing issues, he is talking about the terribly conceived and poorly designed user interface. Blackmagic cameras are such a pain to use you will feel like screaming with frustration. Then, just as you reach the intolerance limit for such awkward interfacing, the battery dies and "saves' you from it.

February 10, 2014

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Munkoli

I never screamed using my BMD-cameras. I never had any issues.
As stated regarding batteries - these cameras are designed to use external power.
Once you run out of external, you can switch meanwhile camera is on, using it's onboard power until
you connect it to wall or other external big battery cell.

I believe biggest issue with these cameras are that they are priced at a consumer level and are expected
to act like consumer cameras. They don't. See these cameras as a film stock camera.

If you feel this camera is that bad - buy a prosumer videocamera instead.

February 11, 2014

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Anders

They fixed the black dot issue on the pocket camera, but still haven't for the 2.5k. Once the BMPCC came out the updates for the BMCC pretty much stopped.

February 11, 2014

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Alex

They need to sort out their appalling lack of quality control before they do anything. My BMCC EF had the 'Rolling Noise' issue and dead pixels in the touchscreen. My two pocket cameras had the 'Hot pixels' problem. The BMCC was repaired and the pocket cams were recently replaced - with two cameras that were MUCH WORSE than the original two.

That's 5 duff cameras I've had from a single reseller! - This hot pixel issue gets progressively worse the more the camera heats up. Judging by the forums, it appears to be effecting a lot of the cameras. BM are aware of this but still don't appear to know what the problem is.

The BMPCC can't be trusted for serious work at the moment.

February 11, 2014

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Agree with birdman. The speed at which technology is advancing is amazing. My take is to go with d best/cheapest option out there. I am nothing close to a hollywood studio, no production of mine will Gross 500 million usd. My first camera was a sony ex1r. Bought it in 2010. Used it. Enjoyed it. Sold it bought a gh2 as against an AF100 cos it was cheaper. Hacked it, used it, enjoyed it, sold it. Now I am in the market for a new camera. I like the alexa, like the red dragon but cant afford neither. Enter the BMPC and the only question I had to ask myself were...is it better than the sony ex1r, the gh2 (hacked) and is it the best/cheapest option for a small production outfit like mine. Answers were yes. So I am on the queue waiting for mine. Cheaper by a 1000 bucks is a+ for me. If u don't like it buy one of the many alternatives out there. If u cant afford ur dream camera, buy wat u can afford now, shoot, make money and upgrade. If u r in no hurry to shoot, wait till the alexa is 100 dollars and buy it

February 10, 2014

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muyo

haha, yeah, go ahead!

February 10, 2014

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Aung

Hmm...the comments seem broken. I can only see two comments on page 1, and a few on page 2, despite the article stating 90+ comments. Hope this gets fixed! Cheers.

February 10, 2014

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P.S. After trying on multiple devices multiple times, I noted this problem via above comment. As soon as I posted that, all comments loaded correctly. Odd.

February 10, 2014

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Same here. Only 2 comments on first page. So, I'm missing 88...

February 10, 2014

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toke

February 10, 2014

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Aaron

Check out footage of the new black magic 4k camera

February 10, 2014

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Aaron

Let the battle begin!! This year will surely be interesting. (**Grabs a bucket of popcorn** )
Blackmagic, you have a little edge but please, give us better removable batteries, higher fps and a 'delete' button. We know you can.

February 10, 2014

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Why do you need removable batteries? It's a cinema camera. Cinema cameras don't have removable batteries. Get a battery pack and off you go.

February 10, 2014

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Harry

It's easy for us to make these requests. But competition between cameras companies has become pretty raw. Just when a company thinks they have an innovation the puts them ahead another trumps them with something more attractive. It looks like the only camera that has no real competitor is GoPro. And that is probably because GoPro is so aggressive with improving itself that they have made themselves their own competition. Maybe we should just pick the camera that has the flavor that suits us and get to work with it---whatever its seeming shortcomings.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

So why would someone buy the Digital Bolex?

Can those people get their money back?

February 10, 2014

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John Reneu

That Kodak sensor has it's own individual qualities beyond a cmos. It is the same one which was in Ikonoskop.

February 10, 2014

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Saied

The digital bolex looks like film. The bm4k looks like the nightly news :P

February 10, 2014

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jj

As others have mentioned the digital bolex uses a kodak ccd sensor, the same as in the ikonoskop, no rolling shutter or tearing and a much more analog/film like look.

Blackmagic 4k is suggested as a broadcast camera and not a cinema camera for good reason. It looks like very sharp video not cinema.

Honestly for narrative work I would take the pocket or cc over this as they have more dynamic range.

February 10, 2014

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simon

We can't deny these new 4K cameras are going to hurt Digital Bolex.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Hopefully, not that much. I always thought of them as a boutique-y camera company catering to a much smaller crowd going for a very distinct look and experience.

February 10, 2014

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Brian

I think the term you are looking for is hipster.

February 10, 2014

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Swissted

Yeah, Philip Bloom is a total hipster.

February 10, 2014

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Kenneth Merrill

Who's we? They are two different cameras, the Digital Bolex isn't meant for corporate video production, it's an artist's tool.

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

You probably didn't understand what I said.

And all cameras are artist tools.

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

I think Hygiene means artist as in someone who is not a wedding photographer or event shooter Gene.

February 11, 2014

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Mitch

I don't think that's what he meant.

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

There can't be art in shooting weddings and events? That may come across as insulting.

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Yes, that is exactly what I meant.

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

Hygiene has obviously never seen wedding videos by the Stillmotion crew or wedding photography by Ryan Brenizer.
These guys create better art at weddings and events than a lot of artsy filmmakers who think shaky camera b/w is art.

February 11, 2014

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Heiko

It wasn't even a year ago that 4k for $4k had real punch. The Sony 4K with lens for $2k, and the GH4K body for sub $2k has made that punch go down the drain, forever! AMAZING!

Hurry up and keep up!

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

A year ago, the cheapest 4K cam was 1D C at ~ $12,000.

February 10, 2014

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DLD

woah

February 10, 2014

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So, BMCC has 13 stops of dynamic range and the BMCC 4K has 12? Why is that? Is it better to go 4K or have that wider dynamic range?

February 10, 2014

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Nick

Consider this, your local multiplex projects at 2k with 12bit color. There is a reason, wide color gamut and dynamic range make a more pleasing image.

Increasing resolution sells camera's and tv's to hobbyists.

February 10, 2014

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simon

Yep, Peter Jackson is a hobbyist.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

The hobbit is almost universally agreed on to be a terrible looking film.

February 11, 2014

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stewe

You missed the perfect opportunity for a joke.

"the hobbyt"

Zing. And I'm out.

February 12, 2014

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Ben Howling

So, all things being equal it's better to go for the widest dynamic range? Can you notice one stop?

February 10, 2014

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Nick

The trade off is you gain global shutter but lose a stop. Imho, a global shutter is a lot more useful than wider dr. You can easily adjust the lighting to make up for the one lost stop versus dealing with rolling shutter.

February 11, 2014

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And this version of the camera has a super 35mm sensor. Wich means you have the same field of view of most professional cinema cameras. And not the crop factor of the BMCC

February 11, 2014

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Ruben

One stop means that such camera can record a light range twice as wide. A significant difference, I'd say.

February 11, 2014

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Thyl Engelhardt

Keep in mind that an additional stop is only the difference of brightness between using a lens at f/1.4 compared to f/2.0 with the same ISO and shutter speed, which is something easily fixed with additional lighting.

Meanwhile the consequences of rolling shutter versus a global shutter are a lot harder to deal with. But if you aren't planning on capturing a lot of motion or performing quick camera movement, then have at it with the first version.

February 13, 2014

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The 4K Black Magic is a production camera, not a Cinema camera. It is aimed at ENG, not filmmakers.

February 11, 2014

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Nick

Since when is the word "production" associated with ENG versus, oh I don't know...film production?

Go take a look at real ENG cameras and compare them to cinema cameras...compare the Arri Amira to the Alexa. Then come back and explain how the 4k Black Magic is an ENG camera.

February 11, 2014

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Gabe

The reason it loses that stop doesn't have anything to do with 4k. It has everything to do with global shutter. You lose the extra stop, but you also lose that nasty rolling shutter jelly effect.

February 11, 2014

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Brett

I just seen this on Vimeo. FOURKS at Venice | Blackmagic 4K Production Camera

http://vimeo.com/85007474

February 10, 2014

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Michael Bishop

That is a nice looking video.and at ProRes too.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Off Topic....

who am I kidding, this is the topic:

The best footage and photos from the GH4K yet, posted 10 hours ago to vimeo,

4:27 minutes http://vimeo.com/86171225

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

wait, posted 2 days ago, but 10 hours ago to GH4K fb.

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

The photos look nice. The video not so much.

February 10, 2014

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VinceGortho

The black and whites feel good down to the bone!

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

I agree, who the hell shot the video?..a photographer?

February 11, 2014

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Tom

I don't think the video itself was shot on the GH4.

February 11, 2014

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Pat

It looks like canon muddy to me. (I'm an owner of 7D & 60D) - this video looks to be what I'm used to seeing... GH4 should be night and day no?

February 11, 2014

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Jer

Why would it? You get a better resolution but nothing else really. It's basically swapping between filming 1080 and 720 - the image looks the same but with a different amount of pixels.

February 14, 2014

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Tyler

Off topic, as usual. Can't stick to the subject of the articles, can you Gene.. Perhaps you should start your own blog?

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

Marcus?

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

So you think the GH4K announcement last Friday has nothing to do with this price change of the BM4K.

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Marcus

I just scrolled through all of the comments and saw that you didn't post replies to anyone else that brought up the GH4K. And odd how 'stewe' shows up in threads at the same time you do. You are friends?

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Omg.. the colors.. they burn.. my eyes...

February 11, 2014

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Peter

Some more details about the GH4K in this 4:12 minute review video:

[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ptCuawYYSg ]

February 10, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

Great, so post it in the GH4 comments section instead, you loner.

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

Loner? Projecting?

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

What kind of sensor is it? Bayer pattern? Or does it resolve true 3840x2160?

February 10, 2014

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Chase

This is some of the best BMPC footage I've seen to date. What impressed me most was the motion, some shots were spectacular too. Getting even more Interesting

https://vimeo.com/86378280

February 10, 2014

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Anthony Marino

Lol, I was too late. That's what I noticed too! The motion actually looks like freaking film. I can't believe it. Even on the Scarlet, I sometimes wish it had more of the characteristics of the Alexa in terms of motion, but the BMPC nails it. I'm actually a little jealous...

February 10, 2014

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Evin

Motion has a nice feel to it, but image wise it looks nothing like film. Will be great for documentary style productions though, concerts and other live action events.

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

Nothing looks like Film BUT Film... including Alexa, F35, F65... and certainly not Dbolex...

February 11, 2014

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Kholi

Actually, both the Arri Alexa and the Digital Bolex looks like film. They're digital, but they look like film.

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

Arri Alexa has a lot of qualities that make it a great choice for replacing film for one reason or another, it doesn't look like actual film.

D.Bolex doesn't come close to looking like actual film, certainly not in the latitude department, absolutely not in the detail department. I guess I could say that it's got color going for it.

Adding grain to an image does not make it film.

February 11, 2014

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Kholi

Agree, adding grain does not make it film, that's obvious. The key word is "looks", not "is". Just one example of the film "look" from the DB:

http://vimeo.com/m/74887302

Anyone who has worked with 16mm film could see it clearly. Again, it isn't film so it'll never be exactly like film, just looks like it.

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

I agree. If you have actually shot 16mm and worked with it, it's hard to deny that when used with the right lenses the DB has come closer to capturing it's appeal than any other digital camera. It has nothing to do with grain. Not to be harsh but i'd suggest putting down the keyboard, closing your mouth and picking up a camera :)

February 11, 2014

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derd

You sure told me.

Back to "discussion and debate", where adults choose to avoid personal attacks when speaking with each other: assuming that -- because I disagree that Digital Bolex looks anything like S16 film, I haven't had any experience with actual film.

You are dead wrong, but that's okay, assumptions generally are.

The video linked, and nothing from the Dbolex, looks like film. Go and search for actual film projects on vimeo, Here, I'll offer an example from Adam Gins:

https://vimeo.com/39606555

You can also take a glance at (sorry to grab at low hanging fruit here) Beasts of the Southern Wild.

I apologize if that upsets someone, but no, Digital Bolex does not look or feel like S16. It feels "nostalgic", but certainly not like S16.

At the end of the day, if you want a film look, shoot film. If you want a CINEMATIC look, there are many options in the digital realm, now, including the Digital Bolex and this here Blackmagic 4K camera.

Feel free to argue amongst yourselves from here on out, I'm not into petty insult-driven dialogue. =[

February 11, 2014

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Kholi

The only one upset here seems to be you, for some reason, and for someone who claims assumptions are generally wrong you sure do alot of assuming. So you can't see the resemblance of film in that link, that's fine. If you don't see it you don't see it. Life goes on.

February 11, 2014

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Hygiene

Phillip bloom has extensive experience shooting 16mm and after shooting with the d16 also stated it captures much of the look.

Just because your eye is not developed enough to see it, doesn't mean it is not there. But if you can't see it, then it doesn't matter to you, so grab a bmpcc and get shooting :)

February 11, 2014

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paul

D.Bolex gentleman seem to be very adamant about making sure the world believes what you believe... that D.Bolex actually looks like exactly like film.

I hope the pre-orders are going well!

February 11, 2014

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Kholi

Also, if you'd like to be more accurately passive aggressive, you would say:

Grab your BMPC (4K) Camera or F35 and start shooting. Those are the two cameras in my arsenal, what I use right now, today.

Neither of them look exactly like film, either, but damned solid.

Good luck.

February 11, 2014

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Kholi

Kholi

Calling for a more adult exchange will not work with a few commenters. Doing that will just encourage them to go even lower and dirtier. This has been seen over and over on the internet. This comment thread has turned ugly. It likely won't turn back---no matter how reasoned your comment is. Some of these commenters will change their names from thread to thread because they know what they are doing is a violation of comment policy and they don't want the same name to be immediately recognized. I think there's one or two commenters using more than one name in individual comment threads to make it appear their numbers are greater than they really are. That's like cheating at solitaire. Spending time exchanging comments with them will only cause them to start following you around the blog.

A word to the wise.

February 11, 2014

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Gene (not the 3...

I'd be interested in hearing what side of super 16 we're talking about, Bolex S16 or Arri SR series S16? I would never take away an ounce of credit from the good folks at Digital Bolex but I say with certainty it's footage leans more in the direction of the origional Bolex than let's say an XTRprod or the Arri16SR. Don't get me wrong, I love the D16 but image wise I don't think it's fair to compare it to the BMPC. They both have cinematic qualities however for highlights, lowlight and resolution I think I'd rather go with the BM sensor. It can even be a toss up depending on the script or setting. They both serve a purpose and serve it well, I just think you'll get more mileage out of the BMPC, if not for anything else the sensor size alone will give you more options.

February 11, 2014

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Anthony Marino

Come on man, didn't you know that Digital Bolex uses the new celluloid sensor to capture digital film? I mean seriously... where have you been. If you knew this, you'd know that DB does indeed have the film look.

February 12, 2014

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Roman

As a RED scarlet shooter, I wasn't convinced by Blackmagic... until today. Scarlet is my baby, and I haven't been tempted to jump ship for any camera system. But this footage is making me seriously think twice.

https://vimeo.com/86378280

If someone said that was shot on the Arri Alexa, I'd almost believe them. The original BMCC had it's cinematic qualities, sure, but this straight up reminds me of film. This is crazy.

February 10, 2014

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Evin

As a fellow RED owner, I hear you entirely. I am convinced this is a highly capable tool, that can be applied in a multitude of situations.

However, I'm not putting down my RED anytime soon, and I wouldn't, for any reason.

Aside from the modularity, inputs, form factor, and upgrade path, REDCODE is superior to all other affordable formats on the market as of right now. This is not some waving flag fanboy, just straight data and facts.

-36 minutes of RAW 4K footage on a RED takes 64GB.
-36 minutes of RAW ProRes 4K footage on a BMPC takes 240GB

I'm none to hasty to swap my main gun.

That being said, I can see this as an acceptable partner to my RED. I love the imagery it is producing, ecstatic about the Global Shutter, and I will most definitely be in contention to pick one up, when available.

February 11, 2014

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Brian

The fact that you just called it RAW Prores footage is funny. Prores is just that. It's not RAW.

February 11, 2014

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Brett

Copypasta, and that's right, file sizes are going to be much worse with Cinema DNG.

Not much to laugh about.

February 11, 2014

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Brian

I agree 100%, and for the same reasons I'm sticking with RED as well. Guess this camera turned out to be more than I expected is all. In terms of everything outside of image quality, I agree RED is vastly superior. If we're comparing image to image, I've got to hand it to BM here, this is really, really good.

I'll likely incorporate the BMPC at some point in the future. Never thought I would, but the footage that's coming out is starting to sell me.

February 11, 2014

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Evin

From what they've released so far, it's really producing some really spectacular images, it would be silly to disregard the potential.

Those interested in taking their production up a notch, are getting a chance. Those whom are already equipped, get to add another to the arsenal.

Should provide some interesting results, in the right hands.

February 11, 2014

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Brian

Don't let one video of people at the park/beach fool you, but if you need people at the park/beach to compare RED watch this,

https://vimeo.com/57785040

looks better to me

February 11, 2014

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ryan

The trade off is you gain global shutter but lose a stop

February 11, 2014

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