April 13, 2015
NAB 2015

RED Introduces 8K Full-Frame WEAPON Camera, Shipping End of 2015

RED WEAPON 8K Full Frame Vista Vision 1
It's NAB time again, which means late-night announcements from RED.

The biggest news is their new 8192 x 4320 sensor, which will actually be slightly wider than a standard full-frame 35mm sensor at 40.96mm x 21.6mm. This new 8K WEAPON will be an upgrade that is set to ship at the end of the year, but there will be significant discounts during the NAB show itself. It will cost $10,000 more than Carbon WEAPON during NAB, and $20,000 more after NAB. The final upgrade price will depend on which camera you are trading in, but there will be $5,000 and $10,000 deposits depending on which package you're looking at.

We now have the full details about what makes WEAPON what it is. As of right now, the big changes in the camera are ProRes recording internally simultaneously with R3D RAW files. These are scaled down to 2K from the full sensor. There will be multiple versions of the WEAPON camera, with Carbon Fiber having slightly higher ProRes specs over the Magnesium Body (up to 120fps for CF and 60fps for Magnesium). They've also eliminated black shading, added built-in wireless connectivity, apparently lower fan noise, and tethered ProRes streaming, where the ProRes is sent over Ethernet. 

The 8K cameras will supposedly be shipping by the end of 2015 and the 6K WEAPON cameras should ship sometime this summer (with upgrades taking place over a long period of time).

8K WEAPON — Full Frame / Vista Vision 

The new 8K sensor is 40.96mm x 21.6mm with a resolution of 8192 x 4320 and a max frame rate of 75fps at 8K. The other specs are unclear, but it seems like this 8K version should still have the same functionality as the other WEAPON cameras.

Here's what Jarred said about it:

NAB price for the upgrade is $10k additional to Weapon CF or Weapon CF upgrade during NAB only. Upgrade Price when 8K ships at end of the year will be $20k. 
If you order 8K now, you will receive 6K Weapon when 6K ships the beginning of July and be upgraded when 8K ships. 

Here is a limited edition forged Carbon Fiber version:

WEAPON 6K Carbon Fiber

$49,500 Brain + Media Bay + CF Sidekick + Magnesium PL mount

RED WEAPON Carbon Fiber Body Only PL Mount

Trade-in Program

  • If you own EPIC CF DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON CF is $22,500. If you own Epic CF After NAB starts, it is $20,000.
  • If If you own EPIC-M DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON CF is $17,500. If you own Epic-M Dragon After NAB starts, it is $15,000.
  • If you own EPIC-X DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON CF is $15,500. If you own Epic-X Dragon After NAB starts, it is $13,000.
  • If you own SCARLET-X DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON is $5000. If you own Scarlet-X Dragon After NAB starts, it is $2500.

Record R3D RAW and Scaled ProRes At the Same Time

Records R3D and scaled version of same footage as ProRes. For example 6K master, and 2K ProRes up to 120fps.
Files recorded simultaneously to same media
Consistent naming and internally accurate timecode (easier workflow than external recorder)
Apple ProRes 444XQ, 444, 422HQ, 422 or 422LT
As well as tethered streaming ProRes - ProRes recorded proxy can be sent to Ethernet, while R3D master sent to media

The rest that's new with the camera:

  • 33x33x33 3D LUTs
  • Faster Data throughput. Up to 50% higher data rates to card. Existing RED MINI-MAG 512GB cards are already ready for transfer speed increase
  • Dual monitor ports on Brain for EVF/LCDs. 
  • Automatic sensor calibration. Select exposure times from 1/8000s to 1/8s without calibrating. Wider operating band for sensor temperature
  • Better thermal management, Lower fan noise with no front fans and more stable operating temperature 
  • Integrated top-plate
  • Integrated wireless control connectivity
  • Interchangeable and removable I/O options with accessible port placement.
  • Interchangeable OLPFs with smart detection of which OLPF is installed.
  • Monitor flip and mirror on all outputs, including SDI.
  • Integrated dual digital front microphones

WEAPON DRAGON 6K Magnesium

$34,500 Brain + Media Bay

RED WEAPON DRAGON 6K Magnesium

Trade-in Program:

  • If you own EPIC CF DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON CF is $22,500. If you own Epic CF After NAB starts, price is $20,000.
  • If you own EPIC-M DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON CF is $17,500. If you own Epic-M Dragon After NAB starts, price is $15,000.
  • If you own EPIC-X DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON CF is $15,500. If you own Epic-X Dragon After NAB starts, price is $13,000.
  • If you own SCARLET-X DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON is $5000. If you own Scarlet-X Dragon After NAB starts, price is $2500.

The rest of the specs:

  • Simultaneous R3D and Pro-res recording in-camera
  • Records R3D and scaled version of same footage as ProRes. For example 6K master, and 2K ProRes up to 60fps.
  • Files recorded simultaneously to same media
  • Consistent naming and internally accurate timecode (easier workflow than external recorder)
  • Apple ProRes 4444XQ, 4444, 422HQ, 422 or 422LT
  • Tethered streaming ProRes - ProRes recorded proxy can be sent to Ethernet, while R3D master sent to media
  • 17x17x17 3D LUTs
  • Faster Data throughput. Up to 50% higher data rates to card. Existing RED MINI-MAG 512GB cards are already ready for transfer speed increase
  • Dual monitor ports on Brain for EVF/LCDs. 
  • Automatic sensor calibration. Select exposure times from 1/8000s to 1/8s without calibrating. Wider operating band for sensor temperature
  • Better thermal management, Lower fan noise with no front fans and more stable operating temperature 
  • Integrated top-plate
  • Integrated wireless control connectivity
  • Interchangeable and removable I/O options with accessible port placement.
  • Interchangeable OLPFs with smart detection of which OLPF is installed.
  • Monitor flip and mirror on all outputs, including SDI.
  • Integrated dual digital front microphones

They've introduced a new Magnesium PL mount as a separate option for $3,500

And here are all of the modules RED has shown off so far:

RED WEAPON 7" Touch LCD

$2950 - Attaches directly to Weapon monitor port on WEAPON brains ( cableless )

RED WEAPON Lemo A and B Adapter

$195 each - Mounts directly to WEAPON brain. In conjunction with WEAPON Lemo Adaptor B, will allow use of Lemo cables to mount W LCD/EVF to locations where not mounted directly to WEAPON brain. 

Use a single Lemo Adaptor A to connect existing 7" and 5" LCD or EVFs to WEAPON

REDVOLT XL Module

$1150 - REDVOLT XL slot, 12V DC IN, 2x 12V 3.8A Aux ports, also trickle charges attached batteries.

RED WEAPON REDVOLT XL Module 1
RED WEAPON REDVOLT XL Module 2

OFFHOLLYWOOD OMODZ 3rd Party Modules

RED has finally opened up modules to 3rd parties, and the first ones on the market are from Offhollywood. Here are the first three, the OMOD MINI, OMOD LT, and OMOD 4K PRO.

REDVOLT Expander for WEAPON

$3950 - 2 x 3-pin Full-Size XLR audio in, DC in, HDMI out, USB power out, HD-SDI out, Genlock in, Gigabit Ethernet, CTRL, 3.5mm headphone jack, Timecode , phantom power, 2x Aux power out. REDVOLT slot for power / hot-swap 

REDVOLT EXPANDER for Weapon 1
REDVOLT EXPANDER for Weapon 2

Jetpack for WEAPON

$950 - Includes DC in, CTRL, SYNC, HDMI out, USB power out. I/O module for handheld and other gimbal applications and includes adjustable HDMI port + USB power for wireless transmitter dongles and switchable for remote power on when power is detected. 

RED WEAPON Jetpack 2
RED WEAPON Jetpack 1X

Base Expander for WEAPON

$1750 - Includes 3.5mm mic jack, headphone jack, HDMI out, HD-SDI out, CTRL, SYNC, DC in.

RED WEAPON Base Expander 1
RED WEAPON Base Expander 2
RED WEAPON Base Expander 3

Your Comment

67 Comments

Rambo!

April 13, 2015 at 6:35AM

13
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klausd
88

Red? Oh it's the company who pushed people to upgrade their scarlet-x to dragon to be able to get the incredible weapon offer, even generously decreasing the upgrade price from 12500 to 9500$ to get them there, and who is now offering 5000$ for their camera as a trade in for weapon? So it's only 30k to pay to get prores, monitor flip, no connection, stupid name and super expensive modules and media to pay for to be able to switch it on. And fanboys on reduser screaming like crazy about the incredible offer. I hope Red is including lube too.

April 13, 2015 at 6:37AM

22
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JoachimV
307

Still more affordable than Arri Alexa and way more advanced than Arri Alexa

April 13, 2015 at 11:00AM

0
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"Advanced" is a relative term.

April 13, 2015 at 1:39PM, Edited April 13, 1:39PM

4
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Joshua Bowen
Editor
439

You clearly have never shot on Alexa before.

April 13, 2015 at 8:06PM

11
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Alan Dembek
Camera Assistant
238

K

April 14, 2015 at 9:33AM

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I've shot on Red One, Epic, and Dragon. Alexa XT and 435 ES. Judging from your profile pic you already seemed to have pledged your allegiance to ARRI, while probably closing the door to Dragon. Both systems are great as I said before. But working with both systems, Dragon and Alexa, Dragon and now the Weapon exceed what the Alexa produces. Just have to learn the differences, just like you had to learn the differences between analog and digital. Many DP's enjoy the Alexa because it's easy and automatically spits out a 5213 colorized image. I prefer having more control over my image and functions on the camera. Hope you look past brand name

April 14, 2015 at 1:15PM

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I'm looking at Red 6K for $49,500.00 and I can't believe my eyes. Why people are complaining is odd. Any time Red is brought up there is immediate talk of Arri. Red 6K footage looks like the best video I've ever seen. Arri had created noise with the 6K, 65mm. We have yet to see footage from the Arri 6K. But I think this 8K will put Red back in the lead. There is footage in the works right now with the pre-production Red 8K. Hope it hits nfs as soon as it comes out.

There's people that like Arri more than Red? That's great. No reason to change if they don't want to. But there's also no need for them to put Red down in EVERY post about Red.

April 16, 2015 at 10:33PM

0
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Gene Nemetz
live streaming
507

I made the jump from Scarlet-X to Dragon in November, and I was honestly eagerly awaiting this upgrade as a "body upgrade" that would cost about the same as the last upgrade to Dragon. It was completely unexpected to read that they decided to carve the whole body out of Magnesium, and it's really discerning to see REDUser guys pooping their pants over it. The only viable option for the lower-end Scarlet is one last shot at upgrading to an Epic Dragon before June 2015 ends... for another $9,500. I'm not sure I need 6K for my projects, nor do I need the slow-motion capabilities. Rentability... maybe? I think that's the end of the RED ladder for me until a simple metal version or upgrade is available... and even then, I'd never trade in this Scarlet Dragon body for as low as $5k. Here's to hoping for some success this year.

April 13, 2015 at 11:23AM

3
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Anthony Berenato Jr.
Director / Cinematographer
81

Well I guess the good point is that we will not read anymore about the incredible "generosity" of Red like if they were some kind of charity. That was ridiculous to hear. Red is a company like any other. Making money. They sell cameras, upgrade them, use the parts from the upgraded cameras to sell them again in another form. But this time I guess they went a bit far. $5k for a scarlet dragon, that's totally insane.

April 13, 2015 at 11:33AM

0
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JoachimV
307

Totally agree. I think Scarlet Dragon will be my last upgrade for the foreseeable future. While I love my camera and workflow, I was not super thrilled with the high pressure upgrade deadlines. Luckily Scarlet Dragon is more than I'll need for quite some time.

April 13, 2015 at 2:17PM, Edited April 13, 2:17PM

6
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Ian Mora
Writer, Director, Editor, Camera Operator
126

holy shit

April 13, 2015 at 6:38AM, Edited April 13, 6:38AM

0
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now Rambo can become a cinematographer

April 13, 2015 at 6:39AM

10
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klausd
88

I guess we are finally in the season of bank loans

April 13, 2015 at 7:01AM, Edited April 13, 7:01AM

0
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LOL. Who cares. 8K won't look any better than 4k or 6k. Diminishing returns. Our eyes won't see it unless its projected on an IMAX screen which won't be able to play that anyways. This is the best RED can do? ARRI got it right with the Alexa 65.

April 13, 2015 at 7:05AM

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Our eyes would have a hard time even on an IMAX screen

HOWEVER - the 8K will help for push-ins and stabilization BIG time

April 13, 2015 at 9:03AM

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David J. Fulde
Colorist
122

40.96mm x 21.6mm sensor will not help for focusing .....

April 13, 2015 at 9:05AM, Edited April 13, 9:05AM

3
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JoachimV
307

A 1.4 lens on super 35 is still hard to incorporate

April 13, 2015 at 3:53PM

0
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Alexa 65 is an amazing system, no lie. But credit is deserved where it's due. The Alexa 65 is a fixed PL proprietary rental system that cost $10,000/1 day. Red has already corrected their color science(without it being teal and orange), their fan noise, dynamic range, with the addition of a sensor wider than full frame and 8k resolution for TRUE 4k output. All this in a much smaller, lighter, and cheaper package. Plus you can adapt many more lenses and have the option to change olpf's and have global shutter with motion mounts. 8k makes a huge difference, and I can totally tell a difference watching Gone Girl(6k) and Skyfall(2.8k) on a regular 4k projector. And having worked with both alexa and red, both systems are perfect they way they are. I prefer Red's mostly due to alot of customization and and workflow. Cheers man, hope to have made you appreciate what boths companies are doing. :D

April 13, 2015 at 10:47AM, Edited April 13, 10:47AM

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8K won't make a big difference. That is the irony. Unless you follow this rule ...

"One advantage of high-resolution displays such as 8K is to have each pixel be indistinguishable from another to the human eye from a much closer distance. On an 8K screen sized 52 inches, this effect would be achieved in a distance of 50.8 cm (20 inches) from the screen, and on a 92 in screen at 91.44 cm (3 feet) away."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8K_resolution

Did any of you guys see the 8k Super Hi-Vision demo at NAB? I did. Two years in a row. It didn't look much different than 4k. In fact, the SonyF65 4k demonstration blew the pants off it.

Things that will make a difference ....

dynamic range
color science
S/N ratio
ISO
Ergonomics
Price
Reliability

April 13, 2015 at 12:29PM

2
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As I said before, I agree with the list of things that make a difference. Red has improved it's dynamic range over a year ago, and is improved further with the Weapon processor. Color science is improved dramatically, sure it does not have the teal and orange look that comes out of the Alexa, but it's very easy to implement it after if the colorist knows what he or she is doing. S/N ratio and ISO is clean up to ISO 2000. Ergonomics much smaller and lighter than many of Arri's cameras. Price much cheaper than the Alexa and definitely much cheaper than the Alexa 65mm. Like i said 10,000 to rent a day. Reliability, you are rarely going to have an issue with the Dragon and Weapon system that is a problem from the past. Also know what to do and not to do with each camera system. In addition that you are getting 8k, which will give you more detailed 4k and help you future proof your project. Both systems are great, but you are definitely getting a huge advantage in one of these

April 13, 2015 at 3:17PM

0
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Hopefully one day we will get a 6x7 sensor, focus pullers will shit a duck

April 13, 2015 at 10:57AM

0
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Yeah, make the monstro sensor an equivalent of 15-perf 70mm used in IMAX film cameras. Focus pullers will have an amazing time on those projects.

April 13, 2015 at 6:22PM

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Terma Louis
Photographer / Cinematographer / Editor
792

Why would they add ProRes and then limit it to 2K? High resolution ProRes would be a dream. Here in Sweden, the cost of going RAW is just too high for most productions, but if this is limited to 2K, might as well go for Alexa.

April 13, 2015 at 7:23AM

0
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Oscar Stegland
DP/Steadicam
550

Thats a very confusing list of optional add-on extras.

April 13, 2015 at 7:52AM

0
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If you like having the most customization, you will love it

April 13, 2015 at 11:10AM

1
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Stick to Arri, it's easy.

April 13, 2015 at 6:23PM

0
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Terma Louis
Photographer / Cinematographer / Editor
792

I mean, this is obviously aimed to more high-end customers.

April 13, 2015 at 7:59AM

0
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Viktor Ragnemar
Director/Cinematographer
1188

Disappointing. Why force people to pay for a Carbon Fibre body they don't need? And why offer a cheaper Magnesium option if it's not going to be compatible with the new 8K sensor? Magnesium will be completely out of date with no sensor upgrade path by the end of the year.
Some of the Weapon redesign decisions are nice, but the 8K full frame sensor is the only thing that will radically change the "look" we can already achieve with an existing Epic Dragon... and even with a trade-in, it'll cost 46K-56K to get there. Pretty stunned at how ridiculous this is.

April 13, 2015 at 8:11AM

12
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I'm torn.

On the one hand, it's great that there are companies out there devoted to pushing technology.

On the other hand, it seems like Red is making their cameras less and less affordable for guys like me.

April 13, 2015 at 8:46AM

0
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The camera is still cheaper than Alexa, but the reason why the cameras are raising in price is mostly due to cost of manufacturing while pushing the technology compared to other businesses. Red does not make much return from new cameras, the goal is just to push digital imaging technology. All this so that filmmakers have access to the best technology through rental or purchase!!!! Cheers dude

April 13, 2015 at 11:09AM

2
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It's about 50% more expensive than the Alexa Mini which is the main competition. Granted, on paper, Weapon wipes the floor with Alexa Mini, but we all know which one has the better image in the real world.

And if you don't upgrade to Weapon during Nab it looks like it'll be even more expensive than Alexa XT, and that's before adding all the accessories you'd need for Weapon even to start (whereas a monitor and batteries are really all that's needed for the Alexa XT.

Alexa SXT will probably be slightly more expensive, but the problem with Red here is that they've alwasy been more affordable, both from a renting perspective, and from an owner's perspective. That simply isn't the case anymore and when the Alexa still puts out a better image, I'm starting to wonder what reason (other than perhaps specifically resolution or frame-rates) someone would have to justify going the Red-route...

April 13, 2015 at 4:14PM

0
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Oscar Stegland
DP/Steadicam
550

Where alexa put out better image?
Do you have any link Dragon vs Alexa's that you say?

I read last test of Shane and be very happy with DRagon. I read that DRagon be better than Alexa, especially at lower ISO.

https://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2015/04/extensive-red-dragon-sensor-...

April 13, 2015 at 5:59PM

0
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Alexx
139

Having worked with both, I can say the Alexa is spitting out an image that already matches Kodak 5213. Red color 4 gives you a more accurate color representation than the Alexa. It just harder to color grade, cause you don't have that look already applied to the image. (teal and orange color) Which is why many DP's don't like using it, it's harder to color grade.

April 14, 2015 at 9:38AM

0
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I guess they've finally realized they won't be able to improve their color science so they might as well continue to up the rez? No thanks. :/

April 13, 2015 at 10:11AM

0
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Vladimir Druts
Founder & Director at Intangible.co
327

I will tell R&D that customers want a teal and orange profile. ;) Color science is already improved and will continue to improve over the years to represent true color, to allow filmmakers to manipulate it however they want. More power to you!!!!

April 13, 2015 at 10:54AM

0
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What's wrong with color science in Dragon?

April 13, 2015 at 6:24PM

1
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Terma Louis
Photographer / Cinematographer / Editor
792

Meh. Honestly most of the people producing content these days don't need 8K. Does anybody really need 8k? For the maybe couple thousand people who do ...congrats?

April 13, 2015 at 10:45AM

0
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Saskamodie
Filmmaker
266

Super dope..

April 13, 2015 at 11:10AM

0
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Kyle Lamar
Director Producer DP
960

Super silly..

Sculls and warning signs all over the design (how childish)\\\DO NOT OBSTRUCT/// JETPACK:)))... Then you have to pay USD1750 to get basic connectors, which were "free" on my Epic. And nearly 4000 for XLRs?

April 13, 2015 at 12:10PM, Edited April 13, 12:09PM

7
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Kalle
74

Wow... I'm extremely underwhelmed by this. I really thought RED was gonna blow the roof off on this update. Unless I'm missing something, it looks like all they did was up the camera to 8k, add ProRes recording and a bunch of module choices. The good side is I won't feel bad buying a Dragon Epic instead ;)

April 13, 2015 at 12:36PM, Edited April 13, 12:36PM

1
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Kaster Troy
Director, DP, Editor
680

Yeah, value on those has dropped considerably. We have been trying to sell ours for a while and no one bites. Seems like in a month you could get a used brain for well under $20k. Same goes for EpicMX now I assume.

April 13, 2015 at 12:40PM

0
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Luke Neumann
Cinematographer/Composer/Editor
1893

I'm Really excited for this camera!! i sold both my Car and My 2700sqft house to accomadate for this NEED in my life! my wife says its going to ruin our marrage and family. "where are the kids going to get ready for school?!" she exclamied. PROBLEM SOLVED BABE, I sold them too for the insurace and upgrade factor i know ill need for this thing in 6 months. they were a wasted investment anyway. College? pshh. they both can get jobs at McD's like i did.

April 13, 2015 at 1:04PM

0
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Aaron Miller
Boom-Poll Operator
200

8K full-frame... can't wait for all those unfocused shots lol.

April 13, 2015 at 2:01PM

0
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Max Bedroom
Fauxfessional
82

lol

April 13, 2015 at 4:13PM

0
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CABLE (X-FORCE)
DP/EDITOR/DIR
101

Just like the old man dying scene in Interstellar. Bring it on.

April 13, 2015 at 6:26PM

0
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Terma Louis
Photographer / Cinematographer / Editor
792

So the specs are up. No improvements ..... It sounds like a joke for this price.

April 13, 2015 at 2:39PM

1
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JoachimV
307

20-30fps improvement. 1/2 stop of DR. Pro Res.

At this point, I love my Dragon and the image it produces but the price/value and what it can do vs. competition isn't making much sense.

BMCC 4.6K URSA - 4.6K resolution, 15 stops, 120fps raw + Pro Res simultaneous. Built in XLR/Monitor/Viewfinder - $8,000.

RED Weapon - 6K resolution, 15 stops, 150 fps raw (in 4K) + Pro Res simultaneous. XLR/Monitor/Viewfinder all paid accessories - $35,000. Another $5,000 if you want the accessories.

That's a $27,000 difference for 1,500 extra (arguably unnecessary) lines of resolution, a bigger sensor, and 30fps.

From where I stand, I wouldn't have done this upgrade if it was $2,999.

$19,999? Are you kidding me?

April 13, 2015 at 2:58PM

8
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Luke Neumann
Cinematographer/Composer/Editor
1893

It's such a small upgrade isn't it. Im still shaking my head as to what all the build up was for. I love Prores just as much as the next guy but is it worth that much... NO! There was no mention of better low light performance either.

April 13, 2015 at 3:31PM

0
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Kaster Troy
Director, DP, Editor
680

Blackmagic vs Red? Oh boy, here we go.

April 13, 2015 at 6:27PM

6
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Terma Louis
Photographer / Cinematographer / Editor
792

lol

April 16, 2015 at 10:40PM

0
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Gene Nemetz
live streaming
507

Also...Scarlet Dragon worth after NAB is $2,500?

I will take two if that's what they really value them at.

April 13, 2015 at 3:11PM

4
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Luke Neumann
Cinematographer/Composer/Editor
1893

Perfect, i need this in interaktfilms

April 13, 2015 at 5:41PM

8
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leandro lima
Director of photography
170

So what cine lenses can cover this 40.96mm x 21.6mm sensor ? ( it's a lot BIGGER than Super35 format )

April 13, 2015 at 8:03PM, Edited April 13, 8:03PM

10
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Guy McLoughlin
Video Producer
30100

WAIT WAIT WAIT Hold the phone. Either I'm super confused or missed something. PL lenses don't cover full frame....So what lenses are they expecting to use with this camera if it has a PL mount? They'd have to make a new set of lenses that would work with it. As far as I know, Schneider makes those Xenon FF lenses, but that's it for Full Frame PL mount. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, or missing something.

April 13, 2015 at 8:13PM, Edited April 13, 8:13PM

0
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Matthew Miller
Director of Photography
88

There's also Leica Summicron-c and CP.2's! Woo-hoo!!! Who needs master primes, ultra primes, primos, and cookes? Why use those old dinosaur lenses when you can use upgraded still lenses instead! And anamorphic? Who needs those? Remember at one point where RED was saying they were unnecessary because they could do everything better flat because they had more resolution than 4-perf? (Even thou they were missing a lot of the reasons people want anamorphic in the digital age.) And then later they announced they were going to make anamorphic lenses? And then later announced they were no longer going to make lenses at all? I'm done. Bye, RED.

April 16, 2015 at 8:26PM

0
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Daniel Mimura
DP, cam op, steadicam op
2056

I hate how Red is manipulating things. I noticed that, many times.

From the big boss:

"6. Enter the Dragon. One of the most significant advancements in the history of cinema cameras. 5K resolution, high frame rates, monster dynamic range and improved color.

7. Now Weapon. Everything better still. 6K and 8K. 16+ stops. 15 bit color. High frame rates. Smaller. Lighter. No cables. Every accessory option you can imagine. The current Gold Standard in every way."

So to try to show how much "better" the Weapon is, they are claiming that the Dragon is 5K resolution with unclear DR and color, and that Weapon is better with 6K, 16+ DR and 15 bits colors, so exactly the specs of the epic Dragon....

That's why I prefer brands like Arri. They are quiet, logical, they do what they say, the boss doesn't act like a spoilt child leaving the house because someone criticized him, they don't kick out people that are speaking loud. I guess Red should do a behavior upgrade instead, people would pay a lot for that.

April 14, 2015 at 3:39AM

2
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JoachimV
307

I'm done upgrading my Red for quite a while. I doubt very much that an end user would ever be able to tell any quality difference between Epic and Dragon footage. I hate to say it, but Dragon is overkill and Weapon is overkill except for very select situations that most don't encounter shooting web spots or low budget films.

April 14, 2015 at 8:12AM

0
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Chris Santucci
Cinematographer
188

A bit oversimplified. Dragon is definitely not overkill (definitely in the money realm, however) in terms of the leaps-and-bounds better color science and increased frame rate options. It's just a drastically better sensor than the MX for a lot of reasons.

Obligatory disclaimer: I do not own a RED and I hate a lot of what they do. The cameras have given me very few problems, however.

April 16, 2015 at 11:21AM

0
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Taylor Russ
Director of Photography
522

"It's just a drastically better sensor than the MX for a lot of reasons."

I don't see anything like "drastically better" in the footage I'm seeing. It may be 5% "better."

August 29, 2015 at 12:15PM, Edited August 29, 12:15PM

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Chris Santucci
Cinematographer
188

I love the RED cameras, what the company stands for, and their philosophy with making a modular camera. I love that the camera is constantly evolving and their firmware updates and color science improvements. My only real complaint with RED is how pushy they are to upgrade, otherwise you're cut off from the discounts. I wish they were more sympathetic to individuals who cant afford to budget 10-20k per year to keep their systems current. 10-20K every 3 years would be more reasonable, for individuals, and small businesses.

April 14, 2015 at 1:04PM

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David Sharp
Video Editor, Cinematographer, Teacher
383

First, I will say, I am no RED fanboi. I don't like much of the culture that circulates around the camera. I do own one however, a lowly MX Scarlet. I was a bit upset about all the hype around Weapon, and the "pressure to upgrade". I didn't. What I think is awesome is that there is an upgrade path in the first place. Regardless of how much it costs, or that now they say Scarlet Dragon is only worth $2500, it is a path. I think the "pressure" was just to let people know that they would have an option. Expensive, but it is an option. People who plan to buy a new Weapon will be waiting a long time. So RED said, "Hey, let's give our loyal customers first dibs, it is the least we can do." What's wrong with that? I have friends who own C300s who have seen the blowouts on the camera and the super low used prices because of course, the Mark II is out. Brand new. Shoots 4K and RAW to an external recorder if you want. Wait. My camera is from 2011 and does that and 5K stills. And it doesn't need an external recorder. So I am not disappointed after all. The thing that is most misunderstood about RED (and how the Alexa is so superior) is that RED lets you have all the technology they can muster. Do what you will with it. Need SloMo? Well, we have to window the sensor to do that, but let's do it. Where's the SloMo on your 5D? Give our customers the option. And what do people do? They bitch. Really? Let's say the Alexa color science (teal and orange not included) really is that much better than Dragon. Is that why Hollywood chooses it so often? Sadly no. It is because it shoots ProRes. And because assistants don't have to "build" the camera with tons of twiddly bits. Again, lots of options brings out the whiners. The new Will Smith Movie "Focus" (cut on FCPX) was shot on Alexa. The studio didn't want to mess with Arri RAW, so 95 percent was shot on a baked ProRes. Shots that were to be used in heavy VFX situations were shot in Arri RAW. Way back in the day, VHS and BetaMax battled it out. VHS won the day even though it had a poorer image quality. Why? You could get more minutes on a tape. It was cheaper. I love the Alexa and what it can do, but RED as a company (outside the silly names, designs and warning labels) has produced a phenomenal product. So, in a way I am glad they are still willing to push and piss people off.

April 14, 2015 at 6:00PM

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Scot Yount
Director/Editor/Photographer/Motion Graphic Artist
269

We joint the RED-family late in the game. We bought our Red Epic a few month ago. The point of beeing able to upgrade was quite important to me.
When they announced the limitied upgrade time to dragon. I stood there with an open mouth!
Why didn't they advertise that more loudly when you buy a camera?
I love the Epic but she has no chance beeing a dragon anymore!

April 15, 2015 at 4:21AM

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F.-Michael Krause
Gadget Addict
86

Same here. But, what matters is what you do with it. You can always sell it and buy a Dragon. If you can't make money with an MX because it is an MX, that would be one thing...remember, no other camera offers an honest to goodness upgrade path. As to not letting people know what is next as far as models and the like, there is a much, much bigger offender, and it is the most valuable company in the world.
Apple.

April 15, 2015 at 8:49PM

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Scot Yount
Director/Editor/Photographer/Motion Graphic Artist
269

The fundamental difference is that with Apple, when they make their big grand product announcements that whip the fanboys up into a frenzy, it only costs a couple or few hundred for an iPod, iPad, or phone. And $2500 for a computer... With RED, it's huge money. With Apple, it's, for most people (excluding big workstation purchases) just disposable income.

April 16, 2015 at 8:37PM, Edited April 16, 8:37PM

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Daniel Mimura
DP, cam op, steadicam op
2056

If you want a heavy dose of complaining read the comment threads at NoFilmSchool. I need to learn my lesson and not scroll though the litany of unhappiness.

About the camera: sure we're going to see the difference from 6K to 8K. We could see the clear difference between 1080p and 4K. It will be no different with 8K. The thing I like the most about higher K's is the step up in richness in color, the pop in color, with each higher K. It keeps getting pop-ier. :-)

Other than that, have a nice night. And lay off the sour grapes. :-)

April 16, 2015 at 10:47PM

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Gene Nemetz
live streaming
507

January 8, 2016 at 9:45AM

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Ian
Director/Writer
87