Something weird is going on. We know the Mac Pro hasn't had a substantial upgrade in some time. We know that something is looming over the horizon, but we don't know what, exactly. We also know that Apple will probably over-charge us for it (or it wouldn't quite feel right for anybody). And while it may not be fair to fault a machine that's still quite hefty and robust for losing to brand new ones in spec tests and benchmark performance -- just what are we waiting for here? Should we even be waiting for it at all? How much incentive to hold out for Apple remains when you can build your own Mac Pro, build your own specialized editing PC -- or, for instance, as a recent StudioDaily feature shows many video editors are doing -- switch to powerhouse Dell solutions?
Don't take it from me -- take it from these guys:
Video is no longer available: youtube.com/watch?v=3TyswmRCdl8
This is actually quite nostalgic for me, because I did my very first "movie editing" on a Dell desktop machine (on software called Roxio Videowave) -- but from the sound of things, play time's over. It's hard to believe an industry leader -- and one in our industry, as well -- in both hardware and software would fall as behind as Apple has in this fairly significant niche, for any reason. The tech mantra of Moore's Law doesn't leave a lot of room to play catch up, nor treat the recently obsolete very kindly -- assuming Apple still cares. Whatever the reason, the delay goes on and on, so it was only a matter of time before some significant population within that fairly significant niche made the switch to that other platform.
According to Jason De Vos of StudioDaily, Dell hired a neutral third party (a company called Principled Technologies) to perform relevant benchmark tests on the most powerfully configured Mac Pro and Dell Precision T7600 possible with $12,500 per machine with both using Intel Xeon processors. To test the type of hardcore number-crunching that comes with video editing, the study used Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5, renderin' up all kinds of mess. At this point you may be able to guess the outcome:
The results showed the Dell Precision T7600, featuring Intel Xeon processors, outperformed Apple Mac Pro by up to 96.5% on video production tasks and is up to 28 times faster than the Mac Pro! For example, to render an entire work area for an AVCHD four-layer video, the Dell Precision T7600 with an Intel Xeon processor took only 13 seconds to do what it took the Apple Mac Pro more than 6 minutes to accomplish.
But this wasn’t some fluke test. The average time saved, incorporating every single test that was run, was 79 percent! Can you even imagine if you had that kind of time back in your day? If you do heavy video editing you could literally be wasting your day by working on a Mac Pro. And don’t forget, you get all that power at the same cost!
But it's not just hardware and machinery, these things come in conjunction with Apple's snoring and Adobe's opportunistic body check to FCP in the NLE market. Nobody's post solution system is all well-rounded or smoothly integrated as Adobe's. All the right components are in place for mass exodus and even public outcry from loyal users -- though with solid alternatives such as Dell's really growing into place, at least there's no risk of moral panic.
Furthermore, if Apple's decision to "participate only in markets where we can make a significant contribution" truly will extend all the way to its ground-to-a-halt Pro line, now's as good a time as ever to switch. Lock-in is the rigor mortis of progressive development for both the creator and his/her tools by entrenchment in that which is legacy -- and if Apple is determined that it's best they bow out of the video editing hardworld and softworld, you may find yourself recalling those classic Dell commercials in ways you really never expected to.
With some murmuring today that Microsoft may be looking to purchase Dell, things may get a whole lot more interesting in the near future.
Have you guys noticed a shift like this local to your own work and workflows? Do you see this as the changing of winds, or just a drop in the bucket until Apple releases something big?
I feel vindicated for not switching over to apple system years ago, I love my DIY windows machine. Will be building another later on this year.
January 24, 2013 at 4:30PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I read Lenovo is making some good laptops as well. I never used them.
January 24, 2013 at 4:36PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
A lot of apple hostility coming from this site.
January 24, 2013 at 4:45PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I don't about that; I've seen quite the favor for Apple on many other articles... perhaps just this author?
January 24, 2013 at 4:54PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
That's so Apple fan-boyish... If you don't like the message, attack the messenger. Grow up, smell the coffee and get to work...
January 25, 2013 at 12:20AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I think there's just a lot of alternatives covered here. There's just no Apple fanboyism happening.
January 24, 2013 at 5:11PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
A lot of hostility comes from Apple. I like the way you cry, appleboy.
January 24, 2013 at 7:43PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm sure a new Mac Pro will be up to snuff in specs, but the Mac Pro is a fairly closed system in terms of upgrade options.
Furthermore, if Apple doesn't care about their NLE being the standard of processionals, they may not care either about their professions line either. My guess is if more production companies start jumping ship, it may just motivate the launch of a new Mac Pro.
January 24, 2013 at 9:59PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
A lot of fanboyism coming from some comments.
January 25, 2013 at 3:46AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
This is part of the reason Apple's stock fell 10% yesterday. They're not coming out with anything new or exciting, just continually updating what they already have.
January 24, 2013 at 4:46PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
BS...you should look at the gaps between there "new or exciting" product releases...
Ipod - 2001
Iphone - 2007
Ipad - 2010
January 24, 2013 at 4:53PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Re-inventing and selling the same thing to people.
I call your BS and raise you more BS.
January 24, 2013 at 4:56PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Exactly - you can keep changing the size and shape of the same thing, but it's still going to be just that: the same piece of hardware.
They had such a great growth in the years you pointed out because there were very few (if any) alternatives that were as innovative at the time as Apple's. Couple that with the lawsuits they continually file against other companies, and it makes sense why they've remained king of the hill for quite some time. The rest of the market is catching up and able to do it cheaper with similar (if not better) results in many areas.
Apple is all about simplicity for the user, which I'm all for, but refreshing their product line every six months and calling it "the greatest thing we've come up with yet" is ridiculous.
Now, let's be real: it took them 11 years to conclude this? This isn't innovation, this is common sense that they're selling as the next "wow" factor for their line of products.
January 24, 2013 at 5:22PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Agreed. Was just thinking that to myself. The Apple execs are obviously making more money out of the domestic market (with their 17 models of iOS devices) so they've decided to let their professional market die on the vine. They have NO IDEA how short-sighted that is since there is a lot of product streaming power they will lose by doing that.
I'm not happy about it because it means we will be back to a Microsoft dominated world if that happens - and judging by the epic fail of Windows 8, that's not good for the industry.
Jobs is gone, and so has the vision.
And I am NOT an apple user or a Jobs fanboy. Happen to be a Windows 7 user.
February 2, 2013 at 7:10AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Steve Jobs dies, now they're resting on their laurels. When will there be a substantial update to OSX? It's been essentially the same for years and years.
January 24, 2013 at 5:12PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I half agree and half disagree - I don't expect much crazy new changes to iphone/ipad. They've got it working well. If a big change comes, it will take a little bit. More than a few years. The retina in the macbooks is a big deal.
On the other hand, why is the macpro line treated like an unwanted child? They could easily have come out with an editing powerhouse last year that would put this argument to rest - or at least put it back to the same argument of mac vs pc from 5 years ago.
There is for sure some laurel resting going on, to some degree.
January 24, 2013 at 5:43PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Apple was screwing up long before Steve Jobs died. I think other companies have simply caught up with Apple and are eating them for lunch at the moment. Time will tell whether or not Apple gets it together and shows some innovation in it's product line again.
January 24, 2013 at 6:52PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
While I don't doubt that Dell's offerings are faster (Apple hasn't *really* updated theirs in almost three years now, they had better be faster) I feel the results in this test are somewhat cleverly exaggerated. If you look at their methods, for some reason they are using the 2010 model, though I am quite sure the 2012 update was shipping by mid-August. They use an NVIDIA (and thus CUDA capable) card in the Dell, the Mac has an AMD card, which won't give nearly the performance benefit in CS5.5.
The other interesting thing is the machine is not equally spec'ed on any other hardware; if they had matched as closely as possible, the Mac Pro is almost $3000 cheaper. Just food for thought.
January 24, 2013 at 4:47PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Agreed. They're comparing the latest, greatest Dell to a Mac Pro that everyone knows is quite out of date... the AMD graphics card is pretty inexcusable and makes up a huge portion of the difference. There are several nVidia cards available for the Mac . But yes, until there is an all-new Mac Pro, Apple's top-end pro hardware is definitely going to lag behind.
January 24, 2013 at 4:57PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
thanks for injecting some reason in this discussion.
people here seem to ignore the fact that that youtube video is a Dell commercial.
January 25, 2013 at 1:56AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
This is a great article, if for no other reason than the line "renderin’ up all kinds of mess."
January 24, 2013 at 4:51PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
January 24, 2013 at 10:42PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I currently work on a dell laptop and I'm loving a every minute of it. I push it pretty hard and though it's not completely decked out to handle some high power rendering and playback it performs very well with full HD footage and high frame rates.
January 24, 2013 at 4:53PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I got laughed at 2 years ago for purchasing a Dell T7500, installing a CUDA gaming card and editing on PPCS5 by Apple and FCP snobs. Now 90% of those same people are using PP and saving up for a PC that is half the price of a Mac Pro and is much faster. I'm all about saving time and not about being a fanboy to a certain brand.
January 24, 2013 at 5:04PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
As the only PC-based editor I know, I am loving the fact that things are shifting and it's no longer taboo to use Premiere or work on a PC.
January 24, 2013 at 6:26PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
January 25, 2013 at 12:27AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
January 24, 2013 at 5:33PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
+1 This reads like a paid article.
George - tshit.de/freshdailies
January 25, 2013 at 1:03AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
ok, beisdes the fact the tests are totally borked due to lack of CUDA card on mac... just wait until you actually try to use a PC in real production work. win 7 networking is a nightmare that doesn't work. I wasted to so much time trying to get it to work. want to HFS+ on mac, spend an extra $79 or nothing. write NTFS on mac ? no... not hacks.
oh cross platform codec that both macs and PC's can write ? none except DnxHD which I don't care for. there are so many workflow stoppers in this day and age its painful that simply should not exist.
so reality is this article is nothing but troll baiting based on some really bad tests
January 24, 2013 at 5:33PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It's been sooo trendy to hate apple lately
January 24, 2013 at 5:37PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Maybe it's because they sit on a $100m+ of profit they squeezed out of all of us? Money that's not being reinvested... So the buck literally stops at Apple...
January 25, 2013 at 12:29AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I would probably choose a hp laptop over one from dell. I have nothing against dell but as I already have a z820 workstation which is so amazing and fast I would also choose one from them
January 24, 2013 at 5:39PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm using a 2012 Mac Mini with upgraded 16GB ram, dual 24" monitors, and it handles everything just fine. Unless you're doing heavy graphics stuff you really don't need anything better for video editing at this point. (yes I work with RED footage). Let's face it, most people waste more time on facebook than waiting for stuff to render in final cut.
January 24, 2013 at 5:40PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
there is no "waiting" for render times in fcp anymore, it does it in the background. but i guess people are too busy thinking junky homemade PCs are better to know that
January 24, 2013 at 6:41PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Maybe you should make your own to see how wrong you're. I can make PCs that are reliable that will smoke a Mac for a fraction of the cost.
January 24, 2013 at 10:03PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I did, I built one and it lasted a few years before blowing up. Also built a cad-machine for my father's office and a gaming machine for my friend.
January 25, 2013 at 12:34AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
What parts are you buying?
January 25, 2013 at 8:58AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'd love to know what Koo, Joe Marine and the rest of the NFS staff use as workstation.
January 24, 2013 at 5:45PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It's seems the only people who are mad are Apple fanboys.
I used to be an Apple fanatic but after I used a Dell professional
Workstation I made the switch. Apple does not care about you. Some of you guys are
in denial. If you must only use a Mac then Hackintosh is the way to go.
January 24, 2013 at 5:50PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Do you really think DELL, a giant corporation with its #1 priority being PROFIT (as opposed to Apple, who knows that the real profit comes from good design and service) cares about you? Their customer service is outsourced to a third world country. At least if my mac breaks I can take it to the local apple store.
January 24, 2013 at 6:43PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
You do realize that Apple is one of the largest corporations in the world, right? Not actually your friend but a large corporation.
January 24, 2013 at 6:56PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The only time I contacted Apple for service the first thing they asked if I had a Apple care pack. I didn't have one, so they refused service. Now just who cares about money first and foremost?
January 25, 2013 at 12:32AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Thats funny, because they always replace the unit for free if it is your first time. Maybe you were giving them attitude :P I had an iPod that just fried one day, took it to the store, they threw it into a bin and gave me a new one, free. Another time, my notebook's battery failed and they replaced it for free (but told me the next time it would be 100 dollars). And I have never bought applecare. I guess it also depends on how good of a mood the reps are
January 25, 2013 at 12:36AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
As an over-paying customer, I reserve any right to act like a bozo if the damn products don't do what they're supposed to.
January 25, 2013 at 12:50AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Just watched a commercial.
January 24, 2013 at 6:45PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Oh no, save the children!!!
January 24, 2013 at 7:46PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Seems like an amazing unit, a little much for my needs. 13 seconds? 1-2 minutes are fine for me with my single i7. Hell if its even that much slower, its probably more like a 40-45 second different between the single i7 and duel Xeons. I'm not exactly sure but I was surprised by the benchmarks regarding duel Xeons vs i7 for basic video editing. Premiere pro with 4-5 layers a 3000 dollar system won't put you too far behind in render time behind this beast. Of course If you do heavy grades, have tons of drives, cgi well then im pretty sure the dell hits the mark. It's definitely a fun to read about. And to the few who put apple out of the race I'd choose my words wisely. Apple just got surpassed by Mobil oil again. Apple's huge, they can do anything they want.
January 24, 2013 at 6:47PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Started using Apple computers in college four years ago, had been using PC since birth. I will never look back to the McDonalds computing of the PC flavor. I make my living doing Apple administration now. I have Mac Pro with Dual Four Cores, 16GIG memory, 4 1TB drives striped in a RAID array. The kicker, how about a 4Gbs fibre connect into 70TB XSAN, not to mention 2 LED Cinema Monitors. The point being, if you have the money to spend, nothing compares to APPLE. Usability and Design is king, don't lie to yourself. Why hate on a company that champions these ideals, builds an OS on top of a rock-solid UNIX back end. The comment about redesigning a new OS, really? What is so absent from the current OS that is destroying your computing experience, lol. Oh yeah I forget, playing Call Duty, pffff.
January 24, 2013 at 7:40PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
worthless article from a purely journalistic perspective, regardless of the subject matter.
January 24, 2013 at 7:44PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Never heard of any of those production companies. This is a pitch video Dell is trying to sell to the niche editor market. If they claim everybody is moving over maybe they will?
I don't care about brands or any of that crap, if it works the best for my workflow and I'm not talking exclusively about render times, then I use it.
And as of right now, it's not a Dell.
Guess that would make a boring pitch video though.
January 24, 2013 at 7:59PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
You never heard of Walter Biscardi?
January 24, 2013 at 9:43PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I love Apple, but this days I find it hard to defend the platform. I do believe Apple no longer cares for the pro user :(. Those were the days.
January 24, 2013 at 8:37PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm an Apple fan but they dont seem to care about pros much anymore and I'm thinking more and more that my next system will be a PC. I love the quality and design of macs. PC's just dont feel the same. It reminds me of driving a BMW. It just feels sooooo good. But lately we lost the performance and now have only design.
January 24, 2013 at 9:32PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I will use an outdated mac pro just for the os. I dont know, it just feels more efficient for me. Plus, I have the 2010 8 core model, and it is nowhere close to being slow yet...
January 24, 2013 at 9:34PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
There's every reason to believe that the new workstations Tim Cook swears are coming will be announced at WWDC.
That's in the middle of the summer.
Apple might do really well to rethink that likely plan, and hold one of their little "events" sooner rather than later. The ship is looking better and better to jump from all the time.
January 24, 2013 at 10:36PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The background rendering is really a much required feature which Apple has introduced in FCPX but in Premiere Pro one is not required to think about rendering until the final phase. The need for background rendering was a must for FCP as seeing those red lines and "Unrendered" in previous versions is damn irritating.
FCPX is definitely a noticeable improvement over FCP 7(ignoring GUI) but its not worth the premium paid for Mac Pros. Premiere Pro with a workstation from HP or Dell or custom one performs way better for the money spent.
January 24, 2013 at 11:01PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Ha Dave Dugdale wasnt approached by Dell.
January 24, 2013 at 11:33PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
What's more important aside from any Apple vs PC debate here is the mention that Microsoft is looking to buy into hardware (purchase Dell). Once that happens we're on our way to a new powerhouse (duopoly) that won't be for the better in terms of choice and pricing. Old dogs learning new tricks. I'm sure them guys in Redmond are paying close attention to those in Cupertino and are trying to copy their strategy of locking-in the customer. Scary thought...
January 25, 2013 at 12:40AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I don't think MS will go that deep into Dell. They just want to keep it alive, because it's their portal to a lot of business. I don't think they're eager to become a big hardware player. Could be wrong, though.
January 25, 2013 at 8:23AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Today Apple is an expensive-toy maker.
I have no doubt that a sizeable portion of pro users (not just video editors: anybody who needs performance) will fly away from them. A few years ago they had the FCP card to play: if you wanted to use that, you could only use Apple hardware. Now that's gone, and they're an incredibly long stretch behind in performance. Way to go, Apple!
January 25, 2013 at 1:05AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Exactly. I write this comment on my iPad and because of the many filmmaking aps, my next phone is likely going to be an iPhone, although I hope someone here at Nofilmschool will do a post on what filmmaking apps are available for Android/Samsung.
January 25, 2013 at 1:22AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Android apps for filmmakers? Not many, I must say. I'm an Android user and this is a sizeable cause of envy towards iphone users. Then again, my phone is 95% as good as an iphone, and it cost me 1/3 of the price. That extra 5% is not worth that many $$$ for me.
January 25, 2013 at 8:25AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It's already been proved the author is not a fan of Apple (and he admitted it in the comments previously).
I'm no fan boy, but I don't see the reason to post such a anti-apple story unless it is clickbait.
And as others have said, the test in the article is a nonsense anyway.
January 25, 2013 at 2:39AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I bought a refurb 12-core MacPro in October when it became clear Apple wasn't going to be releasing a new MacPro any time soon. It was expensive (I added memory & SSDs), but it remains a good buy. Why?
I happen to prefer FCPX to PPro, Aperture to Lightroom and Mac OSX to Windows. Since I spend 70% of my working life processing the stuff I get on shoots, this is more important to me that a factor of 2 in raw speed.
I can cheerfully edit RED footage natively with acceptable playback and render times even without a Red rocket and get through editing the couple of thousand Hasselblad RAW files I sell each month... with enough CPU cycles spare to be able to launch a couple of new video-and-stills heavy commercial websites as well.
But Apple- don't let it get to a factor of 10 in raw speed, because then the balance will have tipped for me.
January 25, 2013 at 3:00AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Which GPU option did you go for? Did you replace whatever ATI thing it came with with a CUDA card?
January 25, 2013 at 9:00AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It has an ATI and I added a Quadro 4000
January 25, 2013 at 2:30PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
P.S. I should say that the limit to a lot of my work is the speed of the Mk1 Monkey Brain making the editiorial decisions, not the speed of the machine. Sure, I need to render when I'm done making decisions, but that's fine- I queue up all the exports to do when I need a break.
January 25, 2013 at 3:02AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Honestly, I'm a Apple fanboy. I really really am. I've always rejected stuff like (specially) Dell, just because they made really crappy computers back in the days. I even hated Android, not anymore though. I really think that there's a lot of things iOS and Mac can learn from one and other. And I really like what I see here. What Dell did was really smart. By jumping in the game because Apple has the lack to support the creative industry. Which is a shame really because their products are really, I think, reliable.
For 1600$ you have a powerhouse working machine. Hey and if you just want to use it for video production, why the hell not right? It's so much cheaper than a regular Mac, so why the hell not.
January 25, 2013 at 4:23AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
quote: "It’s so much cheaper than a regular Mac, so why the hell not."
Because Windows, that's why. :-P
January 31, 2013 at 2:09PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
You obviously haven't used windows lately. I do so heavy editing and in over 18 months I've never experienced a crash using windows 7. I've saved thousands by switching back to PC (mainly because of Premiere). Money which I've invested in hard drives and memory.
January 31, 2013 at 6:21PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I've already dropped Final Cut Studio 3 in favor of Adobe CS6, and I am about 2yrs away before getting a new machine is fully justified. As much fear and doubt as I have in Apple with their secrecy, and uncertainty, I really don't want to deal with the headaches of working in Windows again. There is one dark horse I am hoping for. Google! Save us.
January 25, 2013 at 5:15AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Indeed! I am hoping that Adobe adds cloud-based processing/archiving and a browser-based interface for their Creative Cloud service, so we can all use CS6.5 on our $199 Chromebooks.
January 25, 2013 at 6:03AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It's silly to compare anything to the Mac Pro - it's so embarrassingly outdated at this point.
I give Apple until the end of 2013 to release a new one, NOT just a lazy update, otherwise I'm afraid I will have to abandon ship for my next desktop hardware purchase. That being said, I still don't know of a laptop that is even remotely comparable in quality to a MBP.
January 25, 2013 at 5:56AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Asus G75VX - especially with the GTX 670MX. Nice build. Lots of power. Room for two SSD. I'm taking that over a MBP
January 25, 2013 at 8:20AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I have been using the G74S laptop with Adobe CS5 for the past year now...don't think I'll make my way back to a Mac for awhile after using this computer. I've never had After Effects or Premiere have a bad render to date...or even a crash from any of the programs. Very satisfied.
January 25, 2013 at 3:04PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'll add to that the excellent N-series of asus. Great design and build quality, same power as the mac book pro (a bit better even in the gpu compartment). Oh, and did i mention half the price?
January 31, 2013 at 6:26PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I've been using an Alienware M18x laptop (distributed by Dell) for almost 2 years now, and I can tell there is no way back to a Mac Pro. The power under the hood of that monster laptop is just amazing for working on video editing and compositing, on set, or in your editing room with up to 3 screens (internal + HDMI in/out + display port). The chassis is built for 1 SSD + 2 HDD (2 Tb of storage), 2 nvidia graphic cards in SLI (aka 375 to 780 cuda cores for Premiere or After Effects !). I divided my encoding time by almost 10, especially on H264 codecs and compositing shots. And it's the price of an high end Apple MBP for a far better config. Moreover the programmable retrolighted keyboard shortcuts are really useful (copy / paste / undo, etc...). And it's well ventilated so a 10 hours overnight encoding will not make it burn ! That's one of the MBP flaws (many motherboards fried because of overheating).
January 31, 2013 at 8:59PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The Mac Pro is not really outdated so much as people want to claim. Apple sits atop a rather long list of system integrators that have chosen to NOT IMPLEMENT this current round of Xeon CPUs. The Romley E5 platform was more than a year delayed, failed to live up to the originally claimed speeds, consumes upwards of 40% more power than the previous generation, is 35% more expensive than the previous generation, and has a memory speed issue that Intel has been unable to properly address. Real world performance puts my top of the line HP Z820 at about 15% faster overall than my 2010 12-core Mac Pro. I love my Z820 and think it's a great system.... That said, it hasn't been the greatest purchase. It's a power hog and somewhat temperamental. It's the first system I've bought in close to a decade that hasn't been able to ROI itself in the 8 months I've now owned it. I have nearly $15K sunk into it, not including monitors, RED Rocket or Decklink cards or things I already owned and transferred to the system. As configured at the moment with all of those things, it's probably a $22K computer setup.
Intel was supposed to release the next iteration of Xeon CPUs sometime toward the end of March. That may not be happening now. It seems like it's going to be September or October. So those integrators who skipped this generation of Xeon are really feeling the pressure. I know Apple is feeling it for sure. They were feeling it before, more so than most PC vendors, because Apple fanatics usually don't understand the hardware aspects as much. They just saw that Apple had not upgraded the Mac Pro in over 2 years and there was public outrage. Never mind that HP or anyone else had not updated their Xeon towers either, Intel had not released anything new to upgrade them with. In a way, it's probably best Intel is behind schedule (again). It gives me more time to ROI this Z820 pig before I feel compelled to buy another workstation.
January 25, 2013 at 6:29AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Did they perform this test with the stocks graphics card in the Mac Pro!? Then the outcome of this would be a "little" skewed to say the least.
For me it’s more about the OS. Nothing in the near future will get me to use Windows unless Microsoft finally makes some bold moves. MS managed to disappoint me over and over and over again and they simply don’t seem to have any idea about designing good software with great UX. Windows 8 has many great improvements over Win 7 but how do these help me if the OS structure is still a huge mess requiring one to fix basic functionality with 3rd party programs that may break with the next update?
I went for a hackintosh an think it’s a good compromise. Good operating system on affordable and user replaceable hardware. If Apple just wasn’t that greedy, I’d still have a Mac as my main machine but they act as if upgradeability, design and user friendliness excluded one another. While this may be true to a certain degree, I don’t believe it’s impossible to build a machine that meets all three criterias.
January 25, 2013 at 6:43AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The articles I read said that Microsoft would take a position in a private Dell purchase, ie. buy a bit of a private Dell, not the whole thing.
January 25, 2013 at 6:53AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I want to have hope for this to be true, but there's a big, hairy monster in the corner - Windows! At my company we have been doing a ton of testing on Windows 8 recently (not specifically for video editing), and I have to say from what I've seen that I'm not excited about the future of Windows.
January 25, 2013 at 6:59AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
All this people complaining about Windows, of course most of the Top systems does not run the peace of ****. Do your research. They offer Linux on Precision systems, and Linux is also the only option for maxed configs as W7 supports for example only up to 192GB of RAM (and yes, those babies can do lot more).
And if you start again with the line that Linux is "not user friendly" for you, you probably deserve the Windows.
January 28, 2013 at 3:49AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
and can someone tell me what operating system they are running - cause I'm sure it's not windows 8
January 25, 2013 at 7:15AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Dudes- not getting a Dell- at least not yet.
I'm not going to pretend I even do half the compositing and motion graphics work some of you do. I am in college. I shoot on a DSLR. I will work in film when I graduate, and use current gigs as a way to help pay for some of the expenses of school. Thing is, I was made to buy Apple back in 2008 when I decided to attend a private school for a year that required its students to own an Apple computer.
After that, I was hooked. Owning my first Macbook Pro opened so many creative doors for me. I was always mechanically minded, and never really known as creative. This changed that. I can attribute pretty much every thing I've done creatively in my life to having bought into the OSX ecosystem and it's solidified my place in the media business. Romanticizing over.
When it's all said and done, my next purchase of computer will be worth more then all that I have in hardware and software combined on OSX. I know 4k is here, my clients are getting bigger and are in need of motion graphics. With all of the above being said, if Apple doesn't step up and solidify itself in the professional world with hopefully the next release of the Mac Pro, they've lost me. I will be singing the same tired song of many people who have been in this business longer than I have been alive. I'm coming to a giant point of change in my creative life, and if Apple fails to innovate for professionals, they love me, my money for my ipads, iphones, ipods, Macbooks, Apple TVs, etc etc. I will move out of the ecosystem and start anew. I'm giving them till August.
Sorry if this was a tldr; getting off my soap box.
January 25, 2013 at 7:15AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I haven't seen much change in the post facilities I've spent time in recently; they're all still Mac-based. I'm in desperate need of an upgrade but until my finances catch up with that need, I'm stuck still using my outdated equipment.
That said, I've been debating with a colleague who's very much technologically minded as to whether I should buy a laptop, build a PC or stick with a Mac and, though he's seen some great features with Adobe Premiere, until Hollywood really makes a major change, Mac is still probably my best bet. (Hollywood as the figurehead for the way the Industry runs will always be the obstinate party)
My colleague suggests I get a fairly recent iMac and continue from there.
January 25, 2013 at 7:18AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Here is my solution to the outdated mac delemma. (Currently a work in progress)
If you use Premiere: Stick with mac, and build a cheap render farm, and dynamic link everything to AE for Rendering. AE will output a .DPX or Tiff image sequence, re import into Premiere and export movie. PC Speed and you can still export ProRess.
January 25, 2013 at 9:19AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Also about the journalistic integrity of this site- beginning to question it a lot lately- this was an advertisement.
January 25, 2013 at 7:19AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I agree. It would be a devaluation to continue seeing this kind of commercials on nfs.
January 25, 2013 at 2:04PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
If it isn't an advertisement, it's lazy journalism (basically just publishing a press release). Either way it's a little sloppy and I don't like it.
January 26, 2013 at 6:13AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
If NFS praises the Mac: it's ok. If they somehow hint that a Windows machine is good: it's advertising.
You MacHeads... honestly: lighten up !
January 28, 2013 at 3:41AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
@Fabdex : well said !
January 31, 2013 at 9:08PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
We've already switch from FCP 7 to Adobe CS6. Too much fumbling around by apple with fcp to justify long term use of the platform. I think a big issue for current apple users in switching hardware is how do you get 1 for 1 rollover for all the other software purchases made in the apple ecosystem. That would be the main deterrent I think in making a full jump especially if there aren't as seamless transfers between OSx and windows as Adobe. I guess we will see what apple has to say with their next Mac Pro installment. For now the hackintosh will have to do.
January 25, 2013 at 8:28AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I think there is another factor that is kind of kept every one tied to the mac is the heavy reliance on ProRess in the TV world.
January 25, 2013 at 9:23AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I just hate Windows. If a workstation was only used for video and not the rest of my life than yes, this would be an option. However, I interact heavily with the internet and the internet is no friend of Windows and now with Windows 8... I don't really think I like that environment. This is all based off my need to use a computer for Work, Life and Hobbies. I have a MackBook Pro
January 25, 2013 at 8:45AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Yep, I can agree to this 100%. If it was only for work, I could get along with a Windows machine but not as a daily driver.
January 25, 2013 at 9:14AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Hey, I saw your "Rooftop-Shot VFX Breakdown"... very nice. Where did you get the helicopter?
January 25, 2013 at 9:34PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I've only used Windows for editing and "daily stuff" and have no problems. Sounds like user error to me.
January 31, 2013 at 6:00PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Before trashing your mac tower, lets not forget that you can slap an Nvidia GTX 680 (pc version) into your mac tower and get blazing fast speeds in both CS6 and Davinci. This is without flashing the card, only some minor tweaks needed. Currently I'm running the 570 with 2.5 gig of ram purchased for $250 at the time. I rendered a feature length film with TC Burn in 45 minutes using Adobe Encoder. It had taken compressor 3 hours to do this same task. So there's still life left in my 2008 mac tower yet. At least for another year.
January 25, 2013 at 10:14AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Speed is not everything. DELL systems do not run Final Cut Pro or Smoke (unless you install Linux), which makes this a tough argument, depending on your workflow requirements.
Simply saying, "Switch to Premiere, AVID or something that runs on Windows" is not an option for many post production professionals or facilities.
While I appreciate the article, it is obviously biased toward the marketing side of the business and not the practical workflow we've all built around tens of thousands of dollars and hours of our time as editors, compositors and post production professionals.
January 25, 2013 at 10:29AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Just about the only thing FCP/Mac does that a windows based Premiere and Avid can't is ProRes output. Even then as long as the customer does not require ProRes, then the argument for staying with FCP/Mac is just personal preference. Avid, FCP, and Premiere all basically do the same thing, I know I've used them all except smoke. Entrenched Brand Loyalty can be a bad thing sometimes, it can lead to a complacent product maker.
January 25, 2013 at 10:42AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Lack of ProRes is a big deal, as that's the 90% video format for all modern editing (in my experience).
January 25, 2013 at 6:04PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Avid MC 6 can do ProRes out. I don't know if that comes native or as a result of having Final Cut installed on the same system.
January 25, 2013 at 8:17PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I can handle ProRes in Sony Vegas on my PC... but usually use Cineform for all intermediates anyways.
January 26, 2013 at 10:47PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Telestream Episode 6 exports to prores in windows. Anything else?
January 31, 2013 at 1:46PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
ProRes is not "the 90% video format for all modern editing" so stop dropping fictitious statements to justify overrated FCP and Apple products. Hilarious!
January 31, 2013 at 6:03PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Already there friends...have a MacBook Pro 17" laptop that I got refurb, just in time apparently because they discontinued them this year! With 8G RAM, it will run vid apps pretty well, including my fave, PremierePro CS5.5, and of course the Mac OS is so sleek and enjoyable.
But when I need some heavy lifting with no stuttering, and lots of leftover CPU power, I use my desktop DELL XPS Studio. This thing is badass, and in nearly 3 years, it still outperforms higher-end Macs that my friends have and cost HALF the price.
HOWEVER, even though the interface is the same for Adobe programs, using a Mac OS has really made me hate Windows and how passe and childish it looks. So I just leave my Adobe programs running on the XPS so that I don't have to even look at Windows at all. Ha!!
All in all, I need both anyway for cross-platform usage, but I avoid looking at or using Windows whenever I can. It's a good compromise because I absolutely need the speed and processing power value of the XPS system.
January 25, 2013 at 10:47AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
You're saying that Windows looks childish. But that's totally up to you really. Yes when you boot up windows for the first time you have this ugly see trough blue bar on the bottom. But you have a lot of configure options really. I personally love my windows bar. With a right click on it, you can enter settings and make it a lot smaller. Same goes for the pictograms on your desktop. If you right click on your desktop you can change your personal UI settings. I personally like to change it to NON see trough and then change the color from blue to pitch black. With these settings W7 looks very mature and proffesional. And ofcourse change your wallpaper to something smooth.
January 31, 2013 at 5:09PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Is it possible to cut and paste in Apple Finder yet? Until that day I will stick to Windows thank you kindly.
January 25, 2013 at 4:47PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I built a beast of a hackintosh 2 years ago now and it's been going strong. For $3000 I had what would have cost $6500 if I built a Mac Pro with similar specs. It's probably not for everyone since it involves some techy stuff to build, but all in all I think I'll make another one someday. My internal 6 disk RAID 5 reads 500 MB to 1GB (with big Bs) per second which is just awesome for loading video footage into a project.
I agree this test is kinda flawed though. They should use the SAME machine to do the tests - dual booting into each OS not using completely different machines.
January 25, 2013 at 6:33PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Here's my question- do you have to intall updates with caution? I guess a better way to put it- have you had a problem with reliability? I really want to build a hackintosh but am afraid it won't run OSX natively and get me in all sortsa problems
January 25, 2013 at 10:52PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
because it makes the difference if I have to render 72 hours or 4 hours... that is what you upgrade for.
Yes you do not need to replace your old crappy hardware for new one, if you can work with it, but if you start doing some high resolution high frame rate video or if you redden an 3D animated movie it makes the ****** difference if I have to spend a day working and wait for 2 days of rendering or if it is done overnight.
And if you work as professional in movie making business you know that to huge amount of rendering time is often more costly than your whole working time, that is why you upgrade.
To get more work done, to earn more money to buy more beer.
January 28, 2013 at 4:05AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Yes you have to think about upgrading before you do it. Usually that means visiting the tonymacx86 site to see what the update brought and then they give you instructions on the best way to upgrade. Sometimes it's as easy as just installing the update from Software Update just like a regular mac. Sometimes you might have to run an additional tool to install the update. I really don't upgrade very often anyway though since half my software and plugins seems to break when I update as well. I only upgrade if there's a feature I need, otherwise I just stay where I'm at.
January 28, 2013 at 9:33AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
you need minimal tech skills if you stick with the right hardware... i suggest you google tonymac... me think its the best place for non experienced hackintoshers to start
January 31, 2013 at 1:25PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Oh my good..the littel kidyboys...
my 12 Mac Pros do waht they can with twin xenon FCP NUKE....and so on.
my 2 Hackintosh-unix-rdh-clones ( two overexpensive Crays) run in Hackintosh
day night...no problems
my 20 i7-w7-renderbombas do waht they should do in Maya and Houdini and and.
Maya in work is same fast in osx w7 ... if you can. if only an hometroll..not.
where is the probleme?
2015 we have more faster units...
they are just cold silicon machines..
THE CREATIVE COMPUTING MASTERMIND is YOU..
but same is on CAMERA-FRONT... nobody makes any good movie somebody realy wants to see
but all talkin about asspain of a versus b.
this is a HUXLEX-ORWELL vs FAHRENHEIT- funny-kidy-boily-nonsense.
ps: if something works perfect FOR WHAT DO YOU NEED TO UPDATE?
because a marketing-no-souler did it say?
the thing between left and right ear is CALLED B R A I N....
January 26, 2013 at 6:37AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
This is probably one of the best comments on this site.
January 26, 2013 at 8:00AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
January 26, 2013 at 12:19PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I tried google translate but computer says no
January 26, 2013 at 1:33PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
This is the American version but still funny:
January 26, 2013 at 3:13PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
January 26, 2013 at 5:16PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM