While they've rarely had major delays with their other equipment, the company has had some serious problems delivering the Blackmagic Cinema Camera. If you've had a pre-order on the camera, you certainly know this by now. With the announcement of two new cameras at NAB, the Pocket Cinema Camera and Production Camera 4K, some of these same questions have come up again. Can they deliver in July as promised? Will there be delays that push camera availability weeks, or even months from the original release date?
In this video from News Shooter, it is reiterated that they are confident the cameras will ship on time, and there is even mention that the Pocket camera should ship with RAW CinemaDNG -- something that has been up in the air since NAB:
Video is no longer available: vimeo.com/68895788
The little camera is still the one I've been most excited about just because of what it packs in such a tiny package. There is not another camera out there shooting RAW and ProRes at this size, and it's unlikely we will see one this size from any other major manufacturer shooting in those formats anytime soon (if ever). If this were a camera from Sony or Canon, it would be shooting highly compressed H.264 of some kind. Instead, we are given just about everything the sensor has to offer, including RAW sensor data.
Richard seems a little less confident about the 4K camera at one point, which has been the word on the street, but after everything that has happened, I would be surprised if the company would have its people saying that they are confident about shipping dates if they weren't internally. It's worth mentioning that the previous Cinema Camera would not have had any delays were it not for the sensor company they were working with changing a key part of the manufacturing process right around the time the camera was originally set to ship.
Either way, we don't have long to go to see if the cameras ship on time and what kind of volume we're actually looking at.
Link: Broadcast Asia 2013: Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera Update -- News Shooter
Disclosure: Blackmagic is a No Film School advertiser.
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Your Comment
98 Comments
I put my order in to review the pocket camera, I am excited to test it out.
June 23, 2013 at 9:52AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Oh yes, Dave, I will buy this depending entirely on what u tell us about it. I never regretted getting the t2i an learning along with you : )
June 23, 2013 at 10:09AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
We are also excited waiting your test !!!! What Lens will you take ? the 12-35 ? ;-) Thanks again for you videos !
June 23, 2013 at 10:25AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Hey Dave, when you do the review for the pocket cam can you also review some potential adapters for using Canon lenses on the Pocket Camera? I think it'd be helpful, especially since a lot of your audience are probably already Canon lens owners (including me!)
June 23, 2013 at 2:06PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
PLEASE do a video review Dave. I use mostly all LED lighting because of your great videos.
June 28, 2013 at 5:50AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Very cool Dave. Totally looking forward to your video. You do wonderful reviews.
June 23, 2013 at 10:09AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
i heard that BMCC 2,5k has some technical problems, for what is not produced and shipped worldwide.
June 23, 2013 at 10:09AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It's not so much that there's "technical problems" - more like when they went to mass produce, they had massive production problems because of a single piece of hardware (the piece of glass in front of the sensor), and it took months to resolve. Now that their supplier has fixed the problem with that part, there are no problems, and the amount they sell is limited only by how many they produce.
June 24, 2013 at 9:44AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I get the whole 4k thing, it's great for the big screen, stabilization, colors and with a slew of other things. However what would we gain (if TV was the destination) by using the new 4K production cam over the BMCC? Aparently they say it has less DR and low light capibilities. For me DR and highlight rolloff are two very important features for my style of shooting. The Alexa at almost 3k is fine for TV (best in the business) so what is the upside shooting with the 4k camera by sacrificing DR and low light in the smaller chipped BMCC? Thanks
June 23, 2013 at 10:13AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I haven't kept up with the BMCC 2.5K vs BMCC 4K in regards to news, specs, sacrifices. Is it true? If so, you have a valid point. DR and low light are far more appealing than resolution... at least for me. Can anyone else chime in on this? I'd like to know more.
June 23, 2013 at 10:27AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Global shutter (which is the reason for the lower DR).
June 23, 2013 at 10:31AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Certainly that's a plus for many I'm sure. That could work out to be more of a benefit than DR. The GH2 looks great dispite it's lack of DR, right? Thanks for adding Gabe.
June 23, 2013 at 10:59AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
the main benefit with the 4k model is the larger s35 sensor vs the bmcc's under m43 sensor
June 23, 2013 at 11:10AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
That's a plus for me too, though I find MFT at closer range sometimes makes the talent look better as most of the longer lenses do as well. I need to shoot close sometimes, noise, crowds etc and wide on s35 people tend to look funny (especially me). My GH2 seems more forgiving in that area (i'm figuring bc of the crop factor) so I've learned to appreciate some aspects of the smaller sensor. Excited to see these cameras released. Thanks
June 23, 2013 at 11:58AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm not quite getting your point Anthony. I thought that if you wanted your shot to look a certain way, you would have to choose certain perspective and focal length. And for the same perspective you would have to be the same distance from talent no matter what camera you were using - only the lens would have to be different.
So for 24mm 'look' you would use 24mm lens on a full frame camera and 12mm lens on m4/3 camera - BUT I think the distance to talent would be the same. No?
June 24, 2013 at 7:21AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
In a room 12x15 room people seem to look better when I have a 35 or 50mm FF lens on the GH2 than at same or less focal length with my kit lens (Sony) at retelively the same distance. I'm close at a greater distance with less distortion on the GH2 is what I meant.
June 24, 2013 at 7:55AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Well 50mm lens on the GH2 should look very close to 100mm lens on 5D. Wich is actually in the telephoto range. And you would need to be quite far from the people to frame anything more than head&shoulder shots.
I recently used old 50mm russian lens (on a GH2) to photograph friend's exhibition event at small gallery space (just for fun). It was quite a challenge to get anything other than portraits in that small space. Most of the time I was hugging the opposite wall to whatever I was shooting :-D
June 24, 2013 at 8:12AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Yes true but when in certain instances it's easier to just put on a 35 or 50mm on the gh2 for low profile shooting. I like that I get in close from a relatively close distance (tight room yes, wall to wall, lol) and it looks incredible. Especially with the vintage nikkor 50mm f1.4 it offers a intimate perspective with out the bulk of a dedicated camcorder. With a table top tripod and the talent laved up, from around 15 ft (in a semi crowed room) I can get the intimacy without a lot of compromise if that makes sense. Nice DOF etc Again it's my low profile way of capturing at times. True I can grab the same shot with a 100mm on a 5d but I got GH2 and 50mm lens and the workaround if I can call it that, works for me. I guess being so impressed with the GH2 makes me think, maybe the BMCC will take over my love affair with the GH2? I guess im one of those people who really don't mind the MFT sensor. I'll get the shot I need one way or the other, the smaller sensor really doesn't effect my style of shooting at the moment which is why I'm weighting out the benefit (for me) going with the BMCC or PC.
June 24, 2013 at 8:54AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I agree that GH2 is great for shooting. Apart from small size and superb image quality, the electronic viewfinder is the best feature. With tripod handle attached you have something very close to old Bolex cameras ;-)
And the depth of field/sensor size - I think that for video it's ok (for photographs I would certainly prefer FF sensor). It was only 5D that started all this ultra low depth of field masturbation. It seems to me like Instagram for photos. Can't make good shot? Just make it with a ton of sexy bokeh and you are good.
It's probable that filmmakers in the future would be amused by this period, when million amateurs got empowered to use large sensor cameras with exchangeable lenses, and they chose to mostly shoot bokeh :-D Most movies I see have actually much higher depth of field in the shots than your average web video, backgrounds are usually very recognisable. And no wonder if most pro lenses seem to be T2.0 and higher (on super35 sensors).
Also lens quality - that's another favorite internet masturbation. On many older movies and documentaries you can see a ton of chromatic aberration in the contrasty edges, and those were top super expensive lenses! And I'm sure if one were to pixelpeep, one would find a ton of 'artefacts' in many great older movies.
After 2 years on the internet learning about craft I realized that people - including me - just love to obsess over technicalities, while they loose the main goal from the sight - and that is producing SOMETHING of value. Dwelling on all these technicalities and researching them is actually killing people's time/space/motivation/energy/resolve. We always wait for the next best camera. We wait for 4K to arrive, so our next masterpiece can forever be immortalized in glorious 4K.
Instead we should spend much more time analyzing the approach of other filmmakers, especially when they were starting out. It was usually their passion that brought them to the top, not their super up to date knowledge of different film stock resolutions.
Sorry for the rant, but it somehow came out. It was a culmination of my thought evolution over past 2 years ;-)
Back to BMPCC - apart from raw, generally superb IQ and low price, it is the small size that is the greatest attraction for me. For certain shooting purposes, small size is a huge advantage.
However I would miss the GH2's viewfinder and 3x crop factor is also a bit undesirable. Finding cheapish and small wide angle lenses will be an issue. Cheaper glass will be probably quite large (FF lenses), and old c-mount glass of decent quality is actually very expensive. It's crazy I think to pay $1000+ for some old Switar. It would also probably have very classic old look that will not intercut well with new m4/3 lenses. So what then? Buy a whole set to have matching look across all lenses? That could end up very expensive. And you might still need a set of modern lenses for the 'contemporary'look. Or do extensive postprocessing for every project? Also not ideal.
The Panasonic 7-14mm is very large and expensive by the way.. Speedbooster will help for sure.. but that's an extra hassle once again. Extra hassles and sizes are detrimental to the whole small camera idea..
I will wait how the people react to the BMPCC once it comes out and what solutions emerge over time. In the mean time, good luck to you with your GH2 shooting ;-)
June 24, 2013 at 8:19PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I loved the rant Peter. Yes that whole depth of field thing is almost as tiring as slo mo these days.. Though it has it place, it doesn't always make sense. I like a nice rack focus so a little blur from time to time isn't bad. I guess you can call me a gear head (kinda) but what drives me towards technology is functionality. My needs are simple, give me great high lights, misty blacks and nice skin tones I'm happy. I've learned, at least for me having a better lower light camera isn't to "see in the dark" it makes the shadows prettier. Better recovery in post along with versatility of course. I shoot for minimal color correction, I'm interested in learning how to create luts and shoot with them someday. Almost neck and neck with resolution, sound is paramount. Unfortunitly I dont usually have a sound tech so having a well rounded system helps out emencly. I love my GH2 it's more than just a tool for me. The fs700 with a pix 240 is a decent well rounded tool I usually use, so I'm hoping at least the S-logII will help with the dreaded blown out high lights that in my opinion plague what is a great all around camera. I'll be excited about 4k when others can see it...lol. I go 4k in the next month or so I won't even be able to see it, My monitor is only 2556x1440. So there's time for that no doubt. Best to you buddy. Nice chat...what a great site.
June 24, 2013 at 10:18PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It's also worth noting that it'll still have a lot of DR (much more than the GH2)...it should have about as much as the 5d Mkiii in raw mode, or Canon's C300/C500.
June 23, 2013 at 1:54PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Hacked GH2 owner here. Don't you also have those murky areas in the shadows? This drives me nuts, especially with skin tones...
June 24, 2013 at 1:29AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Try nebular or what im using now is cluster x T5 moon
June 24, 2013 at 5:20AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
lets not forget the s35 sensor. Also, the camera does compressed raw if im not mistaken, and im not sure if that update will be with the BMCC
June 23, 2013 at 11:11AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Clever, ducky. ;)
I nearly shat when I read BMCC4K was coming for $4k AND a global shutter. But then I read about the stop less of limited DR. Is that a deal breaker?... That's up to you.
Here's some factors to consider:
- Bigger sensors 'collect' more light. Ie. BMCC4K has a bigger sensor - and anyone correct me if I'm wrong - and therefore should perform better than the BMCC in low light. Though the difference could be marginal at best. (Be sure not to confuse the size of a sensor to the resolution of a sensor.)
- Rolling shutter is no fun... though you can manage it if you're aware and design your visual style according.
In my opinion DR trumps resolution ANY day. This 'future proofing' argument always cracks me up. If I were a studio exec or an otherwise established filmmaker I would shoot BMCC4k... wait, no I wouldn't, I'd shoot on an Alexa or a pro equivalent. An overwhelming amount of indiefilmmakers will NOT make something that will be seen and an even larger amount won't need to future proof something no one will ask for in the future anyway. Imagine if sub 4k/35mm films were simply thrown away? Won't happen. IMAX doesn't sell their product with 'future proof your film and shoot 65Mmm! Anything else will not suffice!
But hey, depends on what you want, right? There's no wrong answer.
/goes out and buys inexpensive Pocket Cine Cam with wider DR/
June 23, 2013 at 11:17AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Initially I was excited when I heard that it would have a bigger sensor for the low light possibilities as well. Bigger sensors can theoretically collect more light but since the sensor is very high resolution (4K) the photosites are smaller and therefore the entire sensor is less sensitive than one of a lower resolution might be.
From what I've heard the 4K may be less light sensitive than the 2.5K... Lets hope that's not the case though...
June 23, 2013 at 1:03PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The photosites aren't that much smaller (the bigger overall sensor offsets the higher resolution). The reduced sensitivity is because of the global shutter...it requires more electronics on the sensor which block some of the light getting to the photosites. I personally would take global shutter for a slight sensitivity and DR hit any day of the week.
June 23, 2013 at 2:00PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm fine if it is less light sensitive... all my videos will be black-goth and gritty anyway.
June 23, 2013 at 6:35PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
There's also the ability to reframe in post when downrezzing to 2K or 1080. This is nice on documentary interviews when you can't afford two cameras, and you want to cut between close ups and mediums, etc.
June 23, 2013 at 11:46AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Media Composer 7's new FrameFlex tool will a great help in reframing.
June 23, 2013 at 6:51PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
In most cases DR is much more important than resolution. But a downscaled 4K picture can also be very sharp and clean. So who knows, maybe the 4K camera is better on high iso numbers when shooting 1080p? That can be useful. The size is also really important. That small BMPCC seems to be a great camera for personal projects when you don't wanna carry a lot of heavy things.
One thing about high resolution. If the camera is too sharp it can be a problem for make-up artists and hairdressers. You still want that dreamy, magic look in your film. Hyperrealism is not what everybody wants...
June 23, 2013 at 2:38PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
There's a difference between sharp and detailed...high resolution gives you smooth creamy detail (at least if you're using good downscalers...the faster ones can produce actuance artifacts that look like sharpening halos that are pretty nasty looking).
June 23, 2013 at 3:57PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
well for one thing you get a larger sensor with global shutter which is gonna effect lens choice and also help with motion choice
June 23, 2013 at 7:24PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The Future is 4K.
In 5 years' time when someone wants to buy your footage and you tell them you have but it is not 4K, they will treat you as offering SD footage now.
June 24, 2013 at 2:55AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It depends what the footage will be. If it is for stock then higher resolution is certainly better. However if you produce something that is relevant at the time of release, it will always stay relevant (probably). If it's good, it will stay good. If it's crap, 4K resolution is not going to save it in the future when 4K is actually distributed widely.
And don't forget - in 2-4 years any current camera will be obsolete, if the current tempo of progress doesn't slow down. Futureproof camera? Yeah right..
If you are considering 4K, you should probably have very clear idea if you need it or not. If you are not exactly sure, you probably don't need it.
June 24, 2013 at 7:35AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
That's a silly statement. The jump from SD to HD and HD to 4K are completely different. A lot of people have a really hard time seeing the difference between HD and 4K. Everyone can see the difference between SD and HD.
June 25, 2013 at 4:41PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Its a no brainer, for 4k$ you get a 4k, global shutter and s35 camera. Pretty much what every indie filmmaker has cried about wanting for years. Now its too much? Why do we need it? Simple, we want options and not have to pay for it or hack it or have an archaic compressed codec. Blackmagic is listening.
June 25, 2013 at 1:48PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm taking a once in a lifetime trip to Alaska in July and the Black Magic Pocket Cam ships the week I get back... What I'd give to be able to put it through the paces on my trip.
June 23, 2013 at 10:35AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Really looking forward to the first 4k footage....
June 23, 2013 at 10:57AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
100% good news!
June 23, 2013 at 11:22AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I also hear that both will ship on time. The Pocket cam is going to sell through the roof.
As for the 4K, global shutter counts for me because of the style I like to shoot, and 12 stops will also work fine for me. I hate that its an EF mount. I think we'll see footage very shortly. :-)
June 23, 2013 at 11:29AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
+1
Even pre-ordered the BMPCC in case of a shortage lol
June 23, 2013 at 12:29PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Yes, $995.00 for that quality of a picture should sell fast. One thing that would make all BM cameras sell better is 60 fps.
Is that coming soon to your cameras BlackMagic?
June 23, 2013 at 2:44PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Prime time scripted US TV is heavily going into 4K, with the exception of those shooting on Alexa. Even late-night programs like SNL did some of their (fake commercial) films with the Red Epic. Apparently, F5 and F55 are becoming big in scripted one hour TV while the C500 is getting some traction in the reality world due to size. ENG may wade its feet in the JVC Q30 waters (which isn't priced as outrageously in retrospect, as Sony NEX 700 with a full Sony kit is about $20K, roughly the range of Canon 1 DC and Red Scarlet ... 700 most affordable package is with Convergent Design and the third party EVF in the low teens). To restate the obvious, 4K for $4K will put a lot of downward pressure on all manufacturers.
June 23, 2013 at 11:49AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Will there be true 4k tv channels? Is there enough room in current technology to fit 4k streams through? I can see it coming very soon to internet tv. But I mean in cable and satellite tv channels? Will new satellites have to be launched with 4k capacity?
June 23, 2013 at 2:48PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
TV right now uses digital signals using MPEG2 and perhaps H264 as well now (for cable), so they can keep up with internet tech if the TV companies decide to keep it up to date.
June 23, 2013 at 4:02PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I doubt there'll be a 4K OTA signal any time in the future because the OTA system is regulated by the government and it's still deploying a 20 year old MPEG-2. However, with the newly derived compression codec (HEVC/H.265) or its equivalent, anyone should be able to stream or stream-for-download 4K pretty much right now. Currently, a YouTube or an Akamai 1080p video runs at 3.15MB/s. That would mean a 4K signal at ~ 12.6 MB/s using MPEG4/H.264 or 6.3 MB/s with HEVC/H.265. 12MB/s is pretty ambitious, as an average US broadband signal taps out at ~ 8 MB/s but 6 MB/s is IMO doable. Broadband speeds are nudging up little by little anyway and the introduction of 4K could be a major boost there as well. Insofar as digital celestial goes, new sats using different frequencies/bands are being launched but, at the moment, it looks like slim pickings. Eutelsat has a Quad HD demo channel running at 40 MB/s in MPEG 4 but they hope to squeeze that down, as the new software arrives.
June 23, 2013 at 7:40PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
That's actually an interesting question. Because 4K is really hard to see under the conditions that most adopters will be watching it (smalish screens etc..). So I wonder how the adoption will proceed. For the manufacturers and broadcasters the costs will be really high, costs for the viewers will also start very high and the benefit for the viewers will often will be invisible. So I really wonder how will the adoption work out..
I think that unless many companies throw huge amounts of money (that very few of them have) at the system, the adoption will be very slow. But then again, it's impossible to predict technological progress. Perhaps Apple will go all 4K and other manufacturers will need to follow, thus 'forcing' the 4K on the oblivious customers..
June 24, 2013 at 7:53AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Very excited for both cameras! At the end of the day its just a tool for you to create beautiful, compelling and emotional images, but hey being able to see my high lights not go nuclear makes me smile.
June 23, 2013 at 11:58AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
consider supper 16mm...kodak has 30 percent discount..and it really is the most beautiful
June 23, 2013 at 12:52PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
WAITING
June 23, 2013 at 12:17PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Thanks for the update Joe - was just pondering about the likelyhood of delivery this morning
June 23, 2013 at 1:28PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The 4K cam will also shoot cinema dng RAW at up to1080/60i & 50i (also 24p,25p,30p). This could be converted in post to 1080/60p & 50p to make clean RAW slo mo.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/te...
June 23, 2013 at 2:23PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
might want to brush up on your theory there.
June 23, 2013 at 4:40PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It is possible, but it will be at a lower spatial resolution than the native progressive frame rates.
June 23, 2013 at 9:50PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I've long seen lot of footages from the BMCC.....but had the chance to work with the camera on a video shoot we did in a studio.....first I like to say the everyone should look at the footages in person from the camera, The internet do not do justice for this camera.....but the biggest problem I had with the BBCC was the sensor size....it sucks.....we had a problem getting what we wanted in the shots.....must say for that reason I missed my 5D....once again...not saying the 5D is better just saying it's hard to leave a large sensor....just my take.
June 23, 2013 at 2:40PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Its insane, how a company like Black Magic, is turning out such amazing products, at such a quick rate. I am curious to know, how RAW on the Black Magic Pocket Camera, fares, in comparison, with the (nearly) 3.5 x as expensive 5D Mark iii. Once they get their supply chain in order, I guess, and after the product has been independently tested, I would love to pick up a few of these. They seriously are insane.
June 23, 2013 at 3:00PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm sure there'll be a sufficient amount of BMPCC vs 5D3 videos. Many will want to watch them too. Hopefully they will handle both cameras fairly and not set the cameras to make one camera have an unfair advantage---which I've seen done a couple times by a certain brand of camera users---a brand I will leave unsaid.
June 23, 2013 at 9:11PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Correction: I meant, the Mark iii, WITH the Magic Lantern RAW Hack. Without it, I guess, most people wouldn't even bother comparing them for video.
June 23, 2013 at 3:12PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
With the Raw hack, the Mark3 has a higher resolution like 2.5k and less false color/detail artifacting (because both the BMCC and BMPC have no optical low pass filter). The low light ability is insane, what you get with ISO 12,800 (the Blackmagic taps out at ISO 1800). And don't forget the lovely full frame sensor. It will be possible to record 3k when the new 1100x cards come out. And yes... you can grade the dng in Resolve now...
June 23, 2013 at 3:56PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
iso 1600 is the current max
i wouldnt hold your breathe on 3k on the 5dmk3 especially as your talking about when's and if's those memory cards dont exist in testers hands
June 23, 2013 at 4:43PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Of course they exist, somebody needs to test them. For example here is one: Lexar Professional 1100x (168MB/s).You can already buy them, so test them please.
http://www.lexar.com/products/lexar-professional-1100x-xqd-card
When faster cards cone out (and this is really a if and when) 4k and 5k should theoratically also be possible since the 5D Mark III’s internal memory is clocked to transfer data at approximately 700MB/s.
June 23, 2013 at 5:15PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
JeffO, the Lexar cards have, apparent, already been tested. They seem even better than the advertised specs.
Here's the url:
http://www.digitalversus.com/memory-card/lexar-professional-1100x-xqd-64...
June 23, 2013 at 5:39PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Thank you for the link Zack, just amazing!
June 23, 2013 at 5:49PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
the 5d raw hack is indeed amazing , but if im not mistaken, the current most suitable recording format max resolution is 1080p 14 bit linear. Not 2k or 3k and no sound recording reference what so ever. Low light is amazing indeed.
Low light of canaon raw is indeed amazing but again if i had a choice im going the black magic pocket route if it indeeds ships with raw compression 12 bit and picture detail almost identical to 2.5k camera, you cant beat it for the price.
As far as lighting , while it is not a canon, it has about the same lowlight as a gh3 , just add some lights , rent a c100 end of story
Im just curious on what will be recording times for raw, i keep hearing that max recording time would be around 12 mins with highest sd cards on market
June 23, 2013 at 7:59PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Jay, just so you know the BMPCC will NOT have compressed raw. It will have the same uncompressed raw as it's current bigger brother. Only the 4K BMCC will have compressed raw. As far as picture quality of the BMPCC goes, I won't say that it's bad, but it will not be the same as it's bigger brother in that regards either. The BMCC has a larger sensor (2.5K), and even when shooting prores it benefits from debayering and results in a very clean and sharp image. From what I've seen and been told, the BMPCC will have a similar sharpness to DSLR's like GH3, Nikon, and Canon non raw.
June 23, 2013 at 8:49PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
No the pocket camera definitely has compressed DNG raw...you can't stream uncompressed 1080 DNG to an SD card. The compression is, however, lossless. The impression I've gotten is that all of the BM cameras, including the 2.5k one, will get compressed DNG.
June 23, 2013 at 10:38PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I see that B&H now has the BMCC MFT in stock http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/891443-REG/Blackmagic_Design_cinec...
June 23, 2013 at 7:03PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I would LOVE for BM to release a list of SD cards certified to work with the Pocket. I already preordered and bought some extra batteries but don't want to end up getting a card that won't keep up with the RAW rates.
June 23, 2013 at 8:05PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
On their product page, they display SanDisk 95MB/s SD cards. I imagine they wouldn't have those on there if they didn't keep up with the raw.
June 27, 2013 at 9:31AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I know it's July, but which year?
June 24, 2013 at 3:20AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Thats all well and good, but are they ever going to release actual fuc*ing footage of the 4k camera they began to sell 5 months ago?
June 24, 2013 at 3:34AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The whole argu on many indiefilmmakers NOT MAKING...etc., etc., goesout the window in this digital world.
As an indie MOVIEMAKER/DIRECTOR, writer and obverall, digital based, multi media content creator??? I want the world to see my work. I want and need the world to BUY it if they want to. iF THEY LIKE IT. But, I'll be damned...if I'm gonna scrape pennies together to buy an ALEXA or even a RED.
Footage from the BMCC 2.5 k is more than good enough to make a visually-intense loking genre 90 min. feature with. Do extra work in pist with color correction; de-noising, etc -- whatever trciks you can do and use -- do it, until you can do a test screening and see what happens. You know on the big tv screen at home, or on laptops, where the majority of my auds are going to vbe viewing from...oit'll work, if:
1) Story works and is a visually driven narrative; which is what all, real movies are and not "talking head" plays and majority of bad tv.
2) Reseached my global auds; their likes and dislikes.
Why make a rom com for ZOMBIE fans?
3) Make do with what you got.
Plain and simple.
Can only afford a BMCC 4K, not an ALEXA. Better for me to buy the BMCC, take my time lighting, shooting, make mistakes on my own for this first, second, thrid 90 min. feature(s); seeing what I can clean up in post.
Yeah...I know...all the DPS right now are groaning.
Look, I can't afford you.
Can't afford to rent sound stage.
Have access to some buildings, ranch land, etc.
Have to make do with what I got.
And many times...it's MOTHER NATURE.
It's not GONE WITH THE WIND.
It's a dark, eerie and hopefyully terrifying, visual driven...not so much dialogue, extreme graphic novel-looking 85-90 min. genre B movie.
WITHOUT THE CHEESE!
It's really created for the foreign markets WITHOUT ATTACHMENTS.
This is meant to be done with a small crew, cast...and probably experiment with using
a lot of stock footage or public domain footage for certain montages.
It's not about spending all this money to make it look great to brag about it here on this site.
I'll go with the BMCC 4K and the pocket cam also; probably some GO PROS; pick up some manual primes
at garage sales, on lines for huge discounts; and at the end of the day?
I'll have my genre feature designed to sell to the global marketplace.
good enough for me.
June 24, 2013 at 10:36AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Andrew at EOS HD and his German friends at Slashcam are showing some res tests with 5D Mk III and asserting that the Canon camera resolution is at the moment largely limited by the media card speed writing capabilities and that a 2.5K-2.8K equivalent with a 2.4/1 cinema aspect ratio is possible with the Magic Lantern hack.
June 24, 2013 at 1:01PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Pocket camera is insane, even that it's S16. ProRes, RAW... I love it.
June 24, 2013 at 2:15PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
HOT OFF THE PRESS:
Seiki (SAY-key) will start selling 39" 4k tvs for $699.00 on June 27, 65" 4k coming in fall. They are not just taking aim at the tv market but at the computer monitor market as well. Sears will be the first national retailer to sell Seiki tvs---which should mean A LOT of money for Seiki. Seiki is the first manufacturer to go aggressively at 4k.
Link to story:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100839886
Looks like the move to 4k is in high gear.
June 24, 2013 at 11:07PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
39" is super small for 4K. Decent size for 1080p is around 50" and that's already too large for many livingrooms. I'm sure good salesman could persuade average Joe into buying 39" 4K TV, but is that how all the sales are going to go?
Another question is that of an image quality. Will the cheap 4K TVs have the same quality as same priced LEDs, Plasmas and OLEDs? I would be surprised if they did. It could torn out that first chap 4K TVs will be crap and this fact will become imprinted in the consumers' minds and it will damage the future sales as well.
In any case, it will be interesting to see how the 4K will get adopted.
June 25, 2013 at 8:13PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The human eye at 20/20 merges pixels at ~ 300 PPI, yet a 32" 4K/Quad HD screen produces about 140.
In other words, the display technology can hit 8K quite comfortably.
June 26, 2013 at 9:59AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It does have 120hz at 1080p.
I'm sure it's going to look fantastic. They are aiming sales at it being a computer monitor also, "....ideal for PC users wanting to experience next-generation 4K computing". It is the first affordable 4k tv/computer monitor. Everyone knows the first one out on the market at that low price won't be perfect. But it's going to look amazing and sell a lot. I am certain most people at Sears looking at the $699.00 price tag will not be parsing the technicalities---they know it would be stupid to expect nuanced high specs at that cost. Sears is taking a gamble with an unknown brand. I think it's going to work out good for them. Seiki has a monopoly right now on low priced 4k. I'm hoping this low price will force all others to come down quick! :-)
Some readers here may be looking for something closer to perfection. If they want to pay more for the Sony and pass on the Seiki they will have a emptier wallet for something likely not actually dollar for dollar better than the Seiki. As for me, I'd rather have a Panasonic. Will I find a 39" 4k Panasonic tv for $699.00?
Just sayin.......
June 26, 2013 at 4:45PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
That is an interesting theory. The problem is you completely missed the other most important factor after the eye's ability - the VIEWING DISTANCE. The closer you are to the pixel, the smaller it needs to be and vice versa. So it would seem that your understanding of this issue is extremely simplistic.
I once read an article about eyes resolving ability and it was seriously complex. Nowhere near the simple conclusion of 300ppi. There are many many factors.
But all of the above are technical discussions etc.. The simple fact remains, that when 1080p was compared with 720p, many - real living - people couldn't see the difference at typical viewing distances. But if you will watch your 39" 4K TV from the distance you read your iPad, you are certainly welcome.
June 26, 2013 at 7:30PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
There's a 4k 20" tablet coming out in August from Panasonic. Who will make the first 4k phone display? No stoppin the 4k train!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahO_L3uqrEc
June 26, 2013 at 7:49PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I will fit nicely into my suitcase ;-)
June 26, 2013 at 8:07PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
@Gene - I wouldn't be so excited about Seiki 4Ks without first knowing the facts. Reviews are coming in with Seiki's cheaper panels as having poor black levels, murky shadow detail, noticeable uniformity issues, and inaccurate color. Tested games are blurring or skipping frames. I don't see the point in wanting to demonstrate the new era and grandeur of 4K if the panel displaying the content looks like crap. For the best panel quality, up-scaling, and superior color you'll need a Sony 4K.
June 26, 2013 at 8:22AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It's being sold at Sears. Tell me how many people walking through Sears are wondering, "How's the upscaling in this?"
June 26, 2013 at 4:18PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Dude seriously, were you ever buying a TV? Even average customers ask around about what to get. They ask they friends and family. And they usually have at least a basic idea about the choices. They know that plasma is somehow different to LED and they know if they want 3D or not.
And most certainly they can tell if THEY like the picture or not. And basic picture qualities (colors, contrast, sharpness, motion artefacts, dynamic range) are very obvious to your average human eye. So if for $700 they see a shitty 4K TV next to a decent LED or plasma screen from Panasonic, it will be seriously hard for the salesman to pitch the 'amazing' 4K feature.
Of course we don't know if the cheap 4K TVs will suck. But there is a chance they will, just like cheap TFT LCDs sucked when they became available. No reason to think otherwise. And an INFORMED customer - gadget savvy geek - will certainly prefer more expensive but quality 4K TV. And most are not rich so they will wait till the prices come down a bit.
And it's actually amazing that we are even having a debate about this, while there is still NO CONTENT to watchat 4K! Imagine trying to sell 3D TV but not providing the content for the end users..
These are the reasons I think it is a big unknown how 4K adoption will go. 4K for home use is not a cool and very useful thing like iPhones that everyone desires..
June 26, 2013 at 7:12PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
It can immediately be used as a monitor. There are 4k gaming cards too. It's going to sell immediately just like the 50" sold immediately.
June 26, 2013 at 7:55PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Did you consider for a moment that image quality could suck? That for games it could have horrible motion blurring and lag?
But ok, I give up. You love the 4K, you want it adopted ASAP. Fine by me. I was just interested in exchanging some reasonable thoughts, but since that is not happening, I wish you a good day ;-)
June 26, 2013 at 8:11PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
The image quality on the 50" looks fantastic. There's no reason the think Seiki would have less quality in the 39". The folks at Seiki are heading toward getting rich.
Here's a 1hr 20min review of the 50" with lots of gaming testing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXBu9nxLN78
June 26, 2013 at 8:27PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I Just realised, that the Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera (what a Huge name) suffers from a Serious Design Flaw. It only has an SD Card Slot, which will nowhere be sufficient, for recording RAW. If it has a CF Card slot, a Card like the Lexar Professional 1100x (there a URL for its Test results) would have been sufficient for shooting RAW.
June 26, 2013 at 9:40AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Um...I'm pretty sure Black Magic didn't throw an SD card slot on there without first figuring out whether it can do raw. Remember it's doing lossless compression, which typically ends up being about 2.5 times smaller.
June 26, 2013 at 1:59PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Man quick, send email to Blackmagic to change the specs while there is still time!!
June 26, 2013 at 6:56PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I think, I kindda found the reply to my own soliloquy. Gabe, CinemaDNG is apparently 1.2:1 compressed, which comes to about 63MBps. I still have my doubts on whether any present SD Card can pull this off. But, maybe,I am wrong, and I just haven't read any tests which confirm this.
Here it is:
http://www.blackmagicuser.net/topic/445-which-ssd-cards-to-use-with-the-...
June 26, 2013 at 2:44PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Where's that guy getting 1.2:1? That's a terrible compression ratio. 2 - 2.5 is a much more reasonable expectation.
June 26, 2013 at 4:22PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
I'm trying to figure out if the BMPCC is right for me - I'm more of a live / doc / art videographer, so beauty is important but so is camcorder functionality (sound, shooting time, battery life etc.).
Wish they would get those things happening in a cheap interchangeable lens cam. My detailed thoughts on the pocket cinema cam, and a package wishlist:
http://wp.me/p2cF5b-jR
June 28, 2013 at 11:19AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
DOES ANYBODY HERE KNOW IF THE BMCC 4K WILL HAVE TROUBLE WITH DROPPING FRAMES KNOWING THEY ARE SSDS OUT THERE THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO WRITE 4K FOOTAGE AS EFFICIENTLY AS A REDMAG SSD?
July 3, 2013 at 6:02AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Over in the Blackmagic forum, on dvinfo, John Brawley posted last night, that two new features were added this past week to the PocktmCam. First is a more accurate battery life indicator, and 2nd AF for m4/3 lens.
July 14, 2013 at 3:33PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Baby, this SD card will blow almost EVERY CF card, out of the water. Thank you Japan. What would the world do, without you guys .... :DDD
Now you really don't have to bother, with fast SD Cards for the Pocket Camera.
http://petapixel.com/2013/07/16/toshiba-announces-new-sd-card-series-boa...(PetaPixel)
July 18, 2013 at 7:06AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM
Even although @1080p at the correct view distance pixels are merged Its great to see the envelope being pushed. This will mean stills and video are merged at 4K raw resolution so this is in effect a photographic technology convergence. Hear hear gents, let's toast the fact we are the winners.
September 20, 2013 at 10:34PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM