October 6, 2013

First RED DRAGON 6K RAW Footage Now Available to Download: See How Far You Can Push It

If you've been having some trouble seeing what all the fuss is about with RED DRAGON footage on Vimeo or YouTube, and you've been itching to get your hands on the camera to see what it can do, we've now got the next best thing: RAW footage. Phil Holland, who shared with us some great photos on the set of a DRAGON shoot, had a few hours with the camera himself and has been kind enough to share RAW frames and actual footage for the first time. Check out the RAW samples and the video below from Phil.

RED DRAGON - It's Just Paint

Phil has done a tremendous job with all of the samples and information, and it is greatly appreciated. Download the original 1080p on Vimeo for better quality:

If you'd like to watch it in 4K (or at least greater than 1080p if you've got a capable screen), select 1440p or Original on YouTube:

.R3D RAW Clips and Shooting Details

If you haven't yet, download Beta 21 of REDCINE-X here which in addition to DRAGON support, also includes GPU acceleration. Phil has provided a number of samples in many different formats on REDUser. You can download two of the 72 frame clips by clicking on the images below, but head on over to REDUser for the rest:

RED DRAGON Footage 72 Frame 1

RED DRAGON Footage 72 Frame 2

Some details on the shoot:

Red Epic Dragon (Carbon Fiber)
Shoot Date: 10.03.2013
Format: 6K WS, 24-96 fps
Rated ISO: 800 – graded in post ISO 320-2000 (no noise reduction)
Edited in Adobe Premiere Pro CC
Quick Color Grade in Redcine-X Pro
Lenses: Schneider Cine-Xenar III Primes: 18mm-95mm @ T2-T8
Filters Used: Occasionally an ND .9

6K DRAGON REDLog Stills

Here are redlog grabs, 800 ISO (click for the larger 6K version):

Here's one at ISO 3200, everything is still there, and noise looks less chromatic in the blacks than it does on MX:

ISO and Sharpness Tests

Phil has also been doing a lot of testing with the ISO capabilities as well as post sharpening (click for larger):

The first thing you'll “feel” when shooting Dragon is there's a lot more room between the ceiling and the floor if your midtones are rated in the sweet spot of the sensor. There's a big chunk of latitude to be found in the meat of the REDCODE RAW as well. Some of these shots I pushed down to ISO 320 and lifted up to ISO 2000 without any noise reduction, you could even go further.

The full Epic Dragon sensor is a multi-format system. I chose to shoot at 6K WS here, but I can crop into 5K or further just fine. Finishing your material is up to you, just like Mysterium-X. Some prefer the debayer/down organic look. Some will apply post sharpening, especially if they are exporting for print purposes.

I'm doing some finishing experiments at the moment and testing out different sharpening methods, but here's a taste of what you can do.

Thoughts on DRAGON

So while it's not quite the same as actually getting to shoot with the camera, RAW footage tells you exactly what's going on. Something many who've worked with DRAGON so far have mentioned is just how clean the sensor is and how thick your "negative" is. DRAGON seems to be tempting you to push it. Not only does it definitely have more latitude than MX, but it's so much cleaner that you might not believe your eyes. At times 800 ISO can be a little noisy on the old sensor depending on how much you underexpose. Not so with DRAGON. Plenty of shoots will be consistently working at 1250 and 1600 ISO indoors. Downscaling from 6K makes the little noise that's there even less noticeable.

I think most of the comments so far have spoken about not being impressed by the footage, but it's hard to not be impressed once you get this footage into REDCINE-X. It's all there and more. The outdoor scene above is a great example of that. The talent has no fill, and the darker balcony and brighter background are all held by the camera. The tiny bit of overexposure on the tent rolls off very gently.

Footage generally feels softer and more film-like when contrast is lower, and I've seen plenty of ALEXA footage that looks practically ungraded. If you want something like that look, it's pretty clear you can get it with the new sensor. It will be really interesting what this sensor will be capable of when new color science is released. I imagine there is probably a bit more dynamic range hidden in there somewhere, so we'll just have to reexamine the footage once more when the new color science made for DRAGON is released.

Lady Gaga Music Video Shot on DRAGON

In other news, it appears that the Lady Gaga music video released a while ago from Inez and Vinoodh was shot on DRAGON (or at least part of it was, the wording is slightly unclear):

Here is a still:

We're probably going to see many more music videos shot with the camera in the coming months, so there will soon be no shortage of examples with the new sensor in all sorts of lighting situations and skin tone variations.

After playing with the sample clips, what do you think about DRAGON?

Links:

Your Comment

66 Comments

Nothing short of amazing.

October 6, 2013 at 4:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

*YAWN* Red hype as usual. Still unnatural as hell fake plastic skintones. Just look at that dragon girl, she looks awkward and so not organic at all.

October 6, 2013 at 9:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

2
Reply
Natt

She is painted green and yellow, that may have something to do with it. :)

October 6, 2013 at 9:51AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

2
Reply
avatar
Joe Marine
Camera Department

^ :)

October 6, 2013 at 11:21AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

+1

October 6, 2013 at 12:37PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
George

This has some of the best skin tones ive seen. Even beats Alexa.

October 6, 2013 at 10:58AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
John

And...it's still the OLD color science.

October 6, 2013 at 11:02AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

1
Reply
Thom

Keep in mind this IS the old color science, so we've even yet to see how that looks.

But I'm sure no doubt someone is going to find a reason to complain because this doesn't fit within their web video production budget.

October 6, 2013 at 10:11AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Thom

Looks good, didn't think it would be any other way.

October 6, 2013 at 10:26AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Daniel

While I do think it's kinda amazing, I must also agree with Natt. There is something unnatural/plastic about colors and skin tones. The "RED look" just looks unappealing to me. I'd still go with Alexa or F55 over an Epic.

October 6, 2013 at 10:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Tiedtke

Indeed. Very good image from Red, but there is something...strange...about it.

For image comparision, Martin Scanlan seems to have updated their latest beautiful F55 clip to 1080P in Vimeo:

http://vimeo.com/74338401

Looks simply a lot better, especially peoples skin, even thought camera has less rez.

October 6, 2013 at 11:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Juhan-i

sorry but on what you're watching?
I'm curious, because the vision on Christie D4K35 be an amazing thing.
On a screen of 25 meters at the base.
Maybe on lcd or plasma bad quality is plasticky.
If we look at vimeo looks ok, but if you open the original files be a whole other world.
And I'm a fan Arri, but I must admit that this crazy Dragon also be the noise much better to Alexa and F55, and I think also as dynamic range to be excellent.
Even pushing the ISO up I can not notice any noise or noisy pixels.
The Skintone girl who paints and 'perfect on the big screen calibrated.
We also did a version in Rec 709 for the TV, and be very much better than the old sensor Mx.
The image to be smooth on the big screen and 'unbelievable.
We used Resolve 10 beta 2 and DeckLink 4K.

Lucky those who can buy.

October 6, 2013 at 11:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
ZDF TV

This is the ZDF TV you are from?: http://www.zdf.com/

October 6, 2013 at 2:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Gene

Christie D4K35 can run as high as $150K, depending on the light output.

October 6, 2013 at 5:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
DLD

Yes. I am a technical professional TV station ZDF.
Here we have 2 piece 4k from 29000 lumes.
However we had in testing the F55 and had serious problems with LED lights, especially on the Blue channel, also his sisters hdc. ccd in 1500 and 2400 have these problems. For this reason, we discarded immediately.
I repeat I'm a fan of Arri, in fact we use Alexa for the workflow and for its excellent colorimetry.
I must admit that I have downloaded these R3d out of curiosity, are and were impressed seriously. So far as now, this sensor is better than the current sensor Alexa, both as resolution, color, very low noise level and DR, It 'really impressive, only flaw of RED for me still the workflow, too slow. Maybe I am too well accustomed with the ProRes.

October 6, 2013 at 6:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
ZDF TV

ZDF TV,

I'm glad to read your comment because you are actually working with these cameras in a professional setting.

I too like the color of the ARRI. It is a beautiful camera. And I also agree that the Red 6K is an amazing camera, the most impressive camera ever. ARRI must go to 4K soon or they will continue to dwindle business away to Red. But I think ARRI must already be working on having a 4K sensor.

I hope you find time occasionally to come to this blog and comment. I will look for your name. :-)

October 6, 2013 at 7:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Gene

I was mocking the Red Haters, silly.

October 6, 2013 at 10:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

4
Reply
Natt

I must say, definitely a huge improvement in color science on the skin-tone end. Very impressed.

October 6, 2013 at 1:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Vlad

Those that see fault with this camera: it's the commenter not the camera.

October 6, 2013 at 1:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Gene

For the Red Epic is the best camera I ever used...

October 6, 2013 at 2:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

7
Reply
Sergey

Boring. I shoot only 12K. Anything less and you might as well be watching a 360p youtube clip.

October 6, 2013 at 2:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

6
Reply
Swissted

This video really sold me on the Dragon, come on guys, we all know Alexa, Sony F5, F55 and F65 are amazing cameras. But a shooter not being able to see the extraordinary capabilities of this new sensor is beyond me. You watch that balcony seen and the roll off is very pleasing, Phil lets it go to white but ALL the information is there in the highlights when messing with the R3Ds.

Some of those close ups have so much clarity, so sharp without looking harsh or unnatural remind me of medium format photographs. The little grain thats there is very filmic. The color rendition is great and this is still RG3/RC3, old color science. DR is nuts. The RED look? Come on now I'd say 99% of us would have a hard time deciphering what this was shot on if we hadnt known it was dragon footage.

A DP these days can shoot on film, Dragon, Alexa, sony's line of cinema cameras just to name a few. Amazing time to be shooting, embrace the tools for what each one offers instead of bickering back and forth about camera manufacturer preference. It'd be nice for NFS comments to be about filmmaking, learning from each other, sharing ideas and work instead of some of the crazy nonsense people post on here.

And big props to Phil Holland for going the extra mile and providing such in depth analysis on his findings.

October 6, 2013 at 4:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
carlos

Cheers and thanks Carlos.

October 7, 2013 at 12:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

3
Reply

Thanks to you man, all the knowledge you share on reduser has been a big help to many myself included. From Skully to Spike and now dragon, you've been posting all sorts of awesome info and images. If we ever meet I owe you a beer or two!

October 7, 2013 at 2:53AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

6
Reply
Carlos Reyes

Complaints aside, I like the improvements in DR this new sensor has. If the skin tones look plastic, I'm sure it can be solved with filtration and grading, so that isn't too much of an issue. However, I DO have to agree that If I'm looking for something that functions quickly, out of camera, much like film, I'd side on the Alexa or F55. That said, the Dragon appears to be a comparable tool now and I wouldn't balk at it if it were an option for a production.

October 6, 2013 at 7:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

I would think that getting it to work right out of the camera could still be achieved with a little extra prep time since you can load custom looks into the camera settings anyway. Granted, still not ideal in terms of getting it not needing any prep, but it seems like something you'd only really have to do once.

October 6, 2013 at 7:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

4
Reply
Coty

*getting it to not need any prep

October 6, 2013 at 7:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

4
Reply
Coty

This Red Dragon 6K video may have the more pleasing colors some commenters want to see in the RD6K:

http://vimeo.com/71666317

There still has been no RD6K footage that has been carefully planned, lit, and edited. Everything seen so far from it has been done on the shooters spare time.

October 6, 2013 at 8:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

2
Reply
Gene

That was the god damn point, if harsh and difficult run-n-gun footage looks okay, imagine what Bay (Trans4), Fincher (Gone Girl) and Libatique (Pele) are doing right now with these cameras.

October 6, 2013 at 10:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Natt

This is the best footage of the dragon by far. Anyone who complained on the last posts that they didn't have good footage. This is just great. Looks amazingly sharp.

I'll take 2.

October 6, 2013 at 10:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

1
Reply
Hubert

Nicely shot, graded and lit but looking at the "6K" still frames at 100% theres no way that its resolving 6K!!

If they want to claim 6K resolution then a still needs to be able to stack up against a 6K still photo and when I had my D3 which was about 4.2K the stills had a lot more detail than these grabs. That goes for all the frame uploads I've seen to date.

I really want to see this camera resolution independently tested because when the Red 1 was independently tested it only made it to 2.6K!! I'm assuming the Epic did a lot better but I dont purely go off the number of pixels across. If that was how to rate a camera then some of the mobile phones should be taking a lot better images than their megapixel claims suggest.

October 6, 2013 at 10:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

3
Reply

Oh look, another purist soul arrived. 6K is perfect for smooth 4K debayer. 6K is recording format, not for final delivery, jeez. I'm getting really tired of idiots like you running around with shitty debayering math. Record 4K - debayer to 3.4K. Record 5K - debayer to fine 4K. Record 6K - debayer to pristine 4K.

Newsflash, F65 does the same thing on the inside. They claim 8K sensor, but it's not even remotely true. No one cares as long as it's producing gorgeous 4K material.

October 6, 2013 at 11:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Natt

Your the idiot for swallowing Red's line that the only way to reach 4K is to get there by a soft looking "6K".

If you want to be that arrogant here is a newsflash back at you. There are 1080p, 2.5K and 4K cameras that achieve the resolutions they claim. You want to fanboy a company that continually lies to the public go ahead.

Red's 6K sharpness is another company's 4K. You only have to look at the stills to see that.

October 6, 2013 at 11:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

Bullshit. Other companies sharpen the image soo much it looks like shit. Good cameras keep the sharpening to 0.

October 7, 2013 at 3:40AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
mikko löppönen

Constructive response but I said there are cameras, not all other cameras.

October 7, 2013 at 5:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

Come on this is an ancient discussion. The image looks soft because of the OLPF which has to be stronger on motion cameras than still cameras because aliasing and moire are more noticeable in motion. Besides, any camera using a bayer filter should be using oversampling to get better color fidelity.

Every major single sensor 1080p cinema camera has a higher than 1080p pixel count on the sensor...the F35, Alexa, C300 ect.

October 8, 2013 at 4:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

1
Reply
Gabe

Here's the latest FS-700 video shot into a Odyssey 7Q in 2K. It looks pretty but ... underexposed? Still, this is a more affordable gear with a 4K capability. http://vimeo.com/75971603

October 6, 2013 at 11:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

7
Reply
DLD

uh no. nice try.

October 7, 2013 at 12:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
greg egan

I don't understand what you mean by that.
.
By the way, has anyone noticed that YouTube is streaming videos at 1440p (aka 2.5K) now? I guess they switched in late September. So, there goes the "who needs anything better than Full HD?" argument. Hopefully, Vimeo joins the bit stream race soon. And, hopefully, one could see a Dragon video in that res, just as a sample.

October 7, 2013 at 9:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
DLD

Hi and thanks guys. Couple quick notes. Most of you don't know me, but professionally speaking I've used and "intimately" tested every digital cinema camera currently available. It's part of what I do in my line of work for features. I was also a Digital Colorist for a while and still do that work today even though my primary function is that of a DP and Director.

I strongly feel right now after looking at the 6K Dragon files there's literally nothing like it on the market. There's so much captured dynamic range and that also effects how workable the color is. This test was done with a quick one light grade. Nothing crazy. The purpose was to keep it rather "vanilla" actually. If you think the skin tones look bad, I don't have anything to really say because that's not what I'm seeing. It's also why I provided the original files for people to look at.

On 6K. Red cameras literally don't do anything before the raw stream is encoded to REDCODE RAW. This is different from other manufacturers. Meaning, if you want tack sharp results at 6K you're going to need to apply some sharpening. Just like any raw camera really.

Here's a link to a full 6K resolution still with one sharpening method applied:
http://www.artbyphil.com/cgi-bin/phfxview.cgi?image=photography/2013_10_...

No jaggies, just smooth detail with a bit of texture to it.

I use and have been around a lot of cameras in my life and have ample experience scanning and working with film at 4K, 6K, and even 8K. This is clearly better than anything like that. And keep in mind I shot and rated a lot of this in ISO 320-2000 without noise reduction. To me, this is amazing technology.

October 7, 2013 at 12:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

Just so we can understand can you run us through how you've processed that image because it looks like its been sharpened, then de-noised and then post grain added? Its just a very photoshopy looking grain structure that makes me wonder?

October 7, 2013 at 1:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

1
Reply

Nice looking grade tho :)

October 7, 2013 at 1:21AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

It's time to innovate on makeup, because the amount of detail here really doesn't do justice to the poor dragon girl's face.

October 7, 2013 at 5:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Daniel

Great to have Phil here commenting his material.

I was wondering, now that Red shoots this bigger 6K raw material, how long does the de-compression and de-bayering take ? I mean on average.

I was just looking at the few messages by Red user, where he had done test with Phils material.

And it seems, that with powerfull Mac with Nvidia Titan card, the speed ratio was about 1:28,4.
Meaning that one hour of Red Dragon 6K material, takes 28+ hours to fully de-compress and de-bayer.

With new Red Rocket card (6500$) one hour of 6K raw material takes 7,4 hours to process.

That seem ... rather difficult thing to work with.

October 7, 2013 at 1:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

5
Reply
Juhan-i

no way those numbers are accurate, especially considering people are shooting compression ratios of 17:1 with great results at 6K, it seems its not much different than shooting on epic at 5K with lower compression ratios.

October 7, 2013 at 1:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
carlos

The detail is amazing. I think there's girls that won't want this amount of detail seen. I am wondering what 8K detail would look like, and 10K, 16K? These higher K's may have great application in the medical, and military, fields.

October 7, 2013 at 9:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Gene

There's nothing not to like. It's a state of the art camera half the size of the f65. Nice insight Phil, it's an amazing tool, thanks

October 7, 2013 at 1:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Anthony Marino

Almost as bad as some of the other Dragon tests I've seen. Nobody knows how to light and shoot good looking footage so it's hard to see the full potential of the camera.

October 7, 2013 at 1:31AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Rocco

Maybe you could add a link to your work so we can see how its done then?

October 7, 2013 at 2:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

1
Reply

You'd wish. Indie directors generally shoot so badly and still talk the most amount of crap.

October 7, 2013 at 3:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
mikko löppönen

Who invited you? When someone comes here and abuses someone else's work they better be ready to back it up by showing their own work. So you come and make the same sophisticated comment.....

October 7, 2013 at 5:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

Unless I mistook your meaning there in which case sorry.

October 7, 2013 at 5:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply

You shouldn't worry about it Simon. You got your hands on a fantastic piece of equip that most here will never touch. The skin tones are just awesome and big guys will use this cam as hell. I've played a bit with the footage on resolve and I'm shocked!
Seriously I'm jealous... My poor Red MX is something from the past... lol

October 7, 2013 at 12:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

2
Reply
Alex Mand

Sorry thought that you was the one doing the video...

October 7, 2013 at 6:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

5
Reply
Alex Mand

Not me. I just get frustrated when people like Rocco come along and knock someone elses work and then they disappear when we ask them to back it up by showing their own work. Personally I think this work is stunning, thats the work I'm talking about not the camera.

October 7, 2013 at 7:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

8
Reply

It would be good to know which parts of the Lady Gaga video have been shot on Dragon. If one does not know which shots are actually Rad - what's the us?

October 7, 2013 at 7:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Julian

the whole video

October 7, 2013 at 1:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
carlos

looks like vintage Red footage, nice and sharp and the trademark faded out look. can someone come out with a camera that allows the DP/cameraman to work his magic directly in the camera from the source and not rely on artificial post production?

October 7, 2013 at 3:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

7
Reply
boomaklak

The new Arri Amira (2K but the same sensor as Alexa) is supposed to have pre-programmed LUT's that minimize the needs for grading in post. It might sell for about $25K, depending on the configuration and provided accessories.

October 7, 2013 at 5:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

2
Reply
DLD

thanks. did not know the amira would sell so low. from what i have read, the amira will be ready to shoot right out of the box without need of extra peripherals (beside lens). 25k is a great price if it's true.

October 8, 2013 at 2:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
boomaklak

i've worked on numerous productions. i sometimes wonder if more than half of cameramen and directors are colorblind and do not really know their craft well is why they opt for RAW and 4K and do all color and cropping out all the mistakes in post. the cinematographer used to be an artist, they'd do it all, do the camerawork, pull focus, color the scene on the set with lighting. not as much anymore and IMHO, the final product looks cookie cutter and cheap.

October 8, 2013 at 3:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
boomaklak

Lady Gaga looks scarier in 6k.

October 7, 2013 at 3:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

6
Reply
Idaho

Many, if not most, women have facial hair to some degree. And, of the ones who don't, many of them go through a lot of trouble to have what does grow removed. To boycott 6K is basically saying you're boycotting any modern digital still camera. All of which is to say you're basically boycotting women and pictures of them altogether. Enjoy life in the monastery.

October 8, 2013 at 9:03AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

5
Reply
Brian

Now this comment makes no sense out of context. Feel free to delete, NFS.

October 8, 2013 at 9:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Brian

I am curious to see the specs on the computer that he edited this on.

November 3, 2013 at 2:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

0
Reply
Garrett

It will truly allow you to access to the most up to the minute scores of all
playing teams. Alabama will try to rebound from their loss to the Sooners and rank fourth in the
Sporting News college football preseason rankings.
Fan evaluations of the seat ranges will give you a great idea if the tickets you are bearing in mind are worth what you will splurge.

July 15, 2014 at 5:31AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

5
Reply