November 23, 2013

How Does the New Sony RX10 Perform as a Run & Gun Documentary Camera?

Sony made a bit of camera history back in October, by announcing the first full-frame mirrorless cameras, the A7 and A7R. While those got most of the headlines, Sony also introduced the RX10, a 20 Megapixel fixed-lens camera with a sensor right around Super 16mm. Doesn't sound too interesting on the surface but the fixed lens is actually a great range of 8.8mm to 73.3mm (24-200mm full-frame equivalent), with a constant aperture of f/2.8. Let's also not forget the built-in 3-stop ND filter and image stabilization, and you've got a pretty interesting video camera that you can hold in the palm of your hand.

Johnnie Behiri over at cinema5D had a chance to test the camera, and put together this fantastic short documentary:

He did have some major issues with the lens however:

The lens is very confusing. While it is really good with manual aperture it is really bad with zoom.
There is no real “manual zoom”. It is a “fly-by-wire” one.
You can only zoom with your hand on the lens when not in “manual focus mode” as the focus and zoom are using the same ring.
If you use your hand to zoom you will find yourself twisting the focus/zoom ring at least 3 times from end to end.
Now, if you are in manual focus mode, you can use the little rocker opposite the “on/off” switch for zooming. This rocker has a certain “zooming speed” when not filming. In the minute you press the “REC button” it slows down dramatically.

While the camera does have some more cinematic features like clean 8-bit 4:2:2 HDMI and 60fps at 1080p as well as 24fps, it's not going to give you ultimate image quality in a controlled situation like you might get from something like the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera (which is now capable of RAW recording). To be fair it's still designed as a photo camera first, but it does have a bunch of features that make unpredictable video shooting much easier, like image stabilization and a built-in ND filter. Obviously a lot more is going to be in focus with a camera like this, so its aliasing/moire will be harder to hide.

It's an interesting model, and as long as you're not too picky, it looks like it falls in line with lower-end DSLRs in terms of image quality. I think the video above looks good enough for a lot of uses, but it all depends on your needs. At $1,300, it's not the cheapest camera of its kind on the block, but if you need a take-with-you-anywhere kind of camera that can do all sorts of things, is decent in low-light (12,800 max ISO), and can also double as a photo camera, it might be worth giving the RX10 a look.

Link: Sony RX10 -- cinema5D

Your Comment

60 Comments

This is a camcarder with dslr aparience, If i wouldnt need DOF i wil take it, but ... you know, until them i keep my old mark 5d.

November 23, 2013 at 7:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Nelson

If only they had put that video quality in the Sony A7/A7R... not quite right there Sony!

November 23, 2013 at 7:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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A built in ND is most impressive for a camera of this size. Sony is definitely pushing the envelope in terms of features.

November 23, 2013 at 7:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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moebius22

FWIW, the "pretty" footage starts about 6:20 in. And, with HDMI out, Johnny may have used an outboard recorder too. Of course, that sort of defeats some of the purpose of this camera.

November 23, 2013 at 7:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

"it looks like it falls in line with lower-end DSLRs in terms of image quality" well this test shows the opposite ...

http://www.eoshd.com/content/11576/sample-video-comparing-sony-rx10-a7r-fs100

November 23, 2013 at 8:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Heldico

In fairness, that was a Sony vs. Sony vs. Sony comparison. Would have been better if it was Sony RX10 vs. 5Diii vs. GH3.

November 23, 2013 at 11:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

I think I should have included the Fuji X-Pro1. But I didn't because I don't think video from it compares to the others. Its video has rich, appealing color. But its video characteristics lack compared to the others. It just does not excite me. But! For still photography----I think the Fuji X-Pro1 beats all three, including the 5Diii! So maybe I should have included it.

Nice video showing the photo capability of that Fuji: [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERUyWkcNSrQ ]

November 24, 2013 at 12:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Sorry, the FS100 is the leader in image quality out of an affordable large sensor.

November 24, 2013 at 1:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tulio

Still photos?

Was that reply to me?

November 24, 2013 at 5:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Whatever you read in EOSHD, do the opposite. He's an amateur, with no technical knowledge [the worst part is that he believes he actually knows], and that's why half of his articles are just speculation and rumors, or stolen material from vitaliy's website, PV. It still amazes me that people listen to someone who hasn't shot a single, watchable, high quality clip, just mediocre tests and "artistic" mood pieces ;)

November 24, 2013 at 7:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

That being said, this little cam sure looks interesting. Once it goes under $1000, it will be a great deal for a back-up/b/c cam for news/documentaries

November 24, 2013 at 10:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

He does know what he's talking about and he's shot some nice footage. He's very well versed, technically speaking and he keeps up to date with technology. You sound like a bitter hater. And as a member of PV, I can say that it's the other way around – his posts are most often explored on that site.
EOSHD is a very good site. What have you given the world apart from sour grapes?

November 24, 2013 at 1:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Bo Brummer

No bitterness, I applaud him for being able to pull it off, but he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that's why he caters to amateurs, like Dave Dugdale does. But at least Dave knows his audience and weaknesses, EOSHD just repeats what he read somewhere, and 90% of the times he's wrong on many of the technical stuff (and he doesn't get it, which is funny). I f you haven't seen it throughout his posts, then you obviously have a lot to learn, which is not a bad thing, we all do, but don't advertise someone whose knowledge is laughable. If you are a PV member as you say, you would have seen his stealing pattern. He is at least a joke in PV for that reason amongst others, if you haven't noticed it, then you're obviously a "fresh" member.

November 24, 2013 at 6:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

Btw, this isn't an attack as you tried to present it. It's just an effort to let people -with limited knowledge- know, that they should read what he writes with a very big grain of salt -because 99% of the times, there's a huge misunderstanding in his though process, which originates from his limited understanding on the subject, be it cameras, codecs, sensors, processors, etc-, nothing else. He's highly entertaining otherwise, but just-a-blogger.

November 24, 2013 at 6:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

Wholeheartedly agree with you micheal. Not hating here either, but it is very frustrating to read Andrew speak with such authority and later realise he was actually wrong a lot of the time. He is rather eloquent (and arogant) ill give him that, BUT that just makes it worse! as you end up believing his hype....
I was so keen to pick up his 5d raw magic lantern guide, but just dont have the confidence to follow his gospel... anyone have any good experience with that guide, is it a safe buy?

November 25, 2013 at 5:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jojo

Agree with micheal. Andrew speaks with great authority and arrogance, be it well written, and is often proved wrong. When commenters show this he often does not reply. interesting articles, but unreliable if you need serious facts. Must also agree that ive yet to see anything aesthetically pleasing come from his work, and ive checked.. not hating here either, was really curious to get his 5d raw shooters guide. Anyone have any luck with that?

November 25, 2013 at 5:17AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jojo

Yeah, "eoshd" can't frame a decent picture no matter what camera he employs. Absolutely zero sense of composition, and more often than not he speaks and writes directly out of his bottom area.. Sorry, but that's just the truth, he's neither an artist nor does he possess much technical knowledge. Let's not forget the "dvxuser.co.uk" debacle.. His so-called popularity depends solely on the ignorance of his followers.

November 25, 2013 at 7:11AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Erin

Lay off the Hatoraid guys.

November 26, 2013 at 1:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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moebius22

As someone who has been in the film industry for 20 years, with credits including an acclaimed feature film and documentaries @eoshd has pretty much guided me through this new digital frontier and revitalized my passion for filmmaking, renewed my career by showing me what works on a budget. We are all amateurs at heart!

November 25, 2013 at 4:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Dan

oops duplicate comment above...
were all amateurs at heart, absolutely, but a bit of humility would do him well. there is definitely some good info on his blog, its just not knowing when to confide in his knowledge, especially when he gets worked up about something.. passion blinds.

November 25, 2013 at 5:24AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jojo

It's his blog! Andrew Reids opinions! Good lord.

November 25, 2013 at 5:31AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Dan

So Dan, you just confessed that your knowledge on digital is quite limited, and that's where the problem lies. You trust EOSHD to guide you, but how do you evaluate his findings? Anyway, I never said that he's not amusing, just try to double/triple check whatever he says, and soon you will understand where I'm coming from.

November 25, 2013 at 6:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

Michael I am not arrogant enough to assume I know everything. I am a filmmaker who learns something new from many sources daily from over 35 years of shooting from S8, 16 s16mm then DV through to this new era. I'm 50 years old, run a production company and have to figure most of this shit out myself based on the budgets presented to me. Besides its a challenge to learn stuff that was always the domain of DP's and editors.
Across several boards DVX, BMCuser and half a dozen more including Andrew Reid I have to make decisions on gear to buy based on bloggers. Filmmaking is nuts and bolts, it's not a science. It's a big old mechano set and if one lug I bought off ebay or B&H does not fit a 5/8 to my Rode mic, I'm screwed. Eoshd and others who are part of this new wave get this altruistic new world and give out info for free, yes free! Back in the dark 'ol days Mikey I had to learn how how to use a 16mm camera from mail order magazines from enthusiasts around the globe. Often it took weeks to sort out a tech problem that now takes a minute on a blogger board like Andrews site. Unfortunately users like you, use these boards as your personal Facebook or Twitter a cacophony of useless comments that benefits no one jumping from site to site to comment on other bloggers. It's pathetic.
A far as your comments on this Sony RX10 camera is concerned you show your inexperience. This is no B camera. A colleague just bought the RX10 a week ago and is using it on a doc down the Amazon this week and reports back is blown away by its capabilities. And yes he bought the camera based on a link I sent him for the camera based on EOSHD's early review from last month.

November 25, 2013 at 9:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Dan

November 25, 2013 at 11:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mitch

Oh Dan, I respect your age (although I'm 35 myself), but unfortunately your thought process is flawed. If you actually had the "knowledge", you would understand why I'm doing this. But you admit that you have been "guided" by EOSHD, which is kinda sad. On the other hand, it's normal for older people-of course there are exceptions- to feel kinda lost with the digital revolution, and seek help (which ironically is what I'm trying to do for you right here). As far as my experience and knowledge, please understand that not everyone is created equal or has the same opportunities. I've been blessed to have worked since the age of 18 in the industry while having a Phd in Digital TV Production & Management, a filmmaking degree, and a journalism degree (and I admit that I was fortunate enough to have many friends in the business). You see I know my "shit", that's the problem ;) I know that when someone is stupid enough to suggest that h.265 could be used for stills, it's because he doesn't understand the basics in image processing. Also, when someone writes with Andrew's style, no references just pure speculation, and unthinkable generalizations, he's not even an average journalist. In addition, as a filmmaker he has produced zero/nada quality material, not even a simple short. But there you are, "fighting" for your master, it's normal ;)

p.s. And btw, for my needs (and most professionals'), the RX10 will be a backup/b/c camera, that doesn't mean that someone, like your friend, can't use it as his A cam. One mans c cam is another man's a cam and so on. But someone as old and experienced as yourself should already know that, right?

November 25, 2013 at 5:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

Oh, and do bother to give Mitch's link a go, it might help you understand at least "some" things..

November 25, 2013 at 5:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

Andrew Reid of EOSHD has an amazing work ethic and is very knowledgeable. He's brought many interesting stories to light regarding affordable camera tech and I don't see him bitching about people the way you guys do.

Aside from that, he's done more than any other blogs to promote the 5D raw; in depth testing and examples; work flow examinations, all sorts. In contrast, I remember Shane Hurlbut announce on one of the Zacuto shoot outs, in the company of many well known DoP's – I'm paraphrasing but words to the effect of – "If they could get this thing to go raw it would change everything". And since the 5D did go raw Shane has never concisely posted anything about it. Same for Philip Bloom. And the reason is they simply don't want to piss Canon off because they make money from their associations with Canon.

Understandable but the point I'm making is, EOSDH is truly independent and that independence has been of great benefit to indie film makers unlike the big guys like Shane and Philip who pander to their big sponsors. SO let's hear a bit of respect for Reidy.
And Personal View is a mess of a site with lots of arrogant twerps not excluding the Vitaly who runs the site who is hardly courteous himself.

November 26, 2013 at 4:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anne Drew

^ lol

November 26, 2013 at 5:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mitch

I thought he was being ironic, but the more I read, the more I realized that he was being serious. It seems that Andy continues to write about himself through other identities. lol

November 27, 2013 at 11:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

Since I dind'nt have the opportunity to test the camera myself I check test footages made by others. I believe what I see and in this case the RX10 stand up very well in front of the FS100. Of course you cannot have a devinitive opinion an the camera with this test only (and I never had one), I'm sure the RX10 has its drawback and that s why I want to try the camera myself. I just wanted to report that comparing the image quality with lower end DSLR (and by so canon's ones) was a bit unfair.

To speak about Andrew Read's opinions is another topic and I think it is to everyone to stay critical about what you see especially on the internet. So sayin his opinions are bad and PV is the only website makes you sound very religious and not very open minded... I made me look like a total ignorant (and makes you the more arrogant in he story).

Btw no hate I just felt a bit offended there ;)

November 27, 2013 at 6:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Heldico

En contraire mon ami. No one said that PV is the only website to read, far from it, it's full of crazy people, but at least there are some people there that know what they're talking about, I know that they know, because I know as well ;) I also said that he's fairly amusing, so I don't understand the problem and why you're offended. Like I said, if you agree with him, think twice and read on the subject, you will soon understand why it's funny. For every article he writes, we could have another article analyzing what Andy got wrong (usually very basic stuff..). As far as ML RAW, he still hasn't managed to create a properly graded video, everything looks like shit, but he rushed on creating a guide. That's the kinda of things sociopaths/posers like him do. He "can't create", so he acts like he's testing while attacking everyone and stealing from others. It's actually eye opening reading some people defending him, ignorance is the most dangerous thing.

November 27, 2013 at 1:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

As I said that's not the point, I'm old enough to stay critical about what I read. What's disturbing me is the way you are assuming other people are ignorant and the arrogant way you criticize other's people work... For me you just look like those forum guys who think they know everythink and try to convince other that way ...

BTW it's "au contraire" and not "en contraire".

November 28, 2013 at 7:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Heldico

I agree that there's something off about EOSHD's reviews. He gives a glowing review of the Nikon D5200, a low-budget DSLR, calling it an "extraordinary camera" and a bad review of the RX10 which has far more interesting specs and features that no other camera seems to have. Makes me very suspicious. I will not be reading any more EOSHD reviews. He is either not very knowledgeable or deliberately misleading people with his reviews, in my opinion.

December 4, 2013 at 9:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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panda

I think it's perfect for the crowd it's meant for. If I wasn't as "into" cameras as I am, and I just wanted a nice digital camera to have for parties/family, I would be plenty happy with the quality it's putting out.

It'll make lots of people happy :-)

November 23, 2013 at 10:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Michael

The documentary looked really nice. Colors stood out. And there was clear details. The bouncing in the car was not bad at all---bouncing could have made those segments unwatchable.

Fixed lens isn't a bad Idea. Fuji did it with the X100. They did it because they wanted to have a camera that was easier to handle, not bulky, and with a lens that worked best together with the sensor. The Fuji X100 takes wonderful photos, and good video, the color of the video being the biggest attraction. (Link to their thinking behind that camera: http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/story )

Sony also used a Carl Zeiss lens in the RX100. For its size and price the RX100 has excellent video. But I am not sure if it's the equal of the Nikon 1 V1. It probably comes down to personal tastes. (video sample from the Sony RX100, http://vimeo.com/45682834 )

Because of its size and price this camera will be compared to Panasonic GH's. And it is right that it is. Which is better? It depends on personal preference I suppose. Some people prefer Sony's color and video characteristics, other prefer Panasonic's.

November 23, 2013 at 11:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

This camera really is perfect for traveling. An all-in-one lens is what you really want when you travel.
I hope this camera sells well, because it certainly pushes the boundaries. Especially with it's high ISO (on a small sensor) and the incredible lens that goes with it.

November 24, 2013 at 3:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ian B

This mini-doc is a bit of a gem. Really well done. Interestingly, I would say that this and Philip Bloom's little piece from last year about the fellow who owns a used camera store and collects memorial photos are two of my favourites in this genre, and both were shot with cameras worth less than $1500.

November 24, 2013 at 7:43AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tom

Less than $1500.00--mind boggling. Who would have ever thought a few years ago that such beautiful video could have been shot for such little money!

And if any one of these company wanted to make a simple video camera without sophisticated still photography capability they could make it cost even less. For example, if Nikon made a camcorder with the video technology found in the V1 (cost just under $1000.00 when it first came out, now as low as $299.00) how much would it cost? video samples from the V1:
http://vimeo.com/77361496, 4K bursts: http://vimeo.com/72247280

November 24, 2013 at 9:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Yeah I don't get why people are complaining about how much it doesn't compare to the BMPCC... Two different beats! Hell, I'm waiting for more results to come in but I'm planning on buying three for live event shooting and ENG, which is my bread and butter. I'll eventually get a BMPCC for more filmic work, the RX10 is not aimed at this kind of work.

November 25, 2013 at 10:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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JP Belanger

I'm not really sure the RX10 couldn't be used for shooting movies. The 5Diii, GH2 Hacked, and GH3 are used for it. This one could be too.

November 26, 2013 at 11:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

The moire is due to the electronic IS system according to Salshcam. Turnip off and the RX10 resolution at lower ISO can rival a C300, not bad.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=tr...RX10---Der-Camcorder-Killer--Aus-dem-Messlabor.html&usg=ALkJrhgzT5w-op5jj1Vav_doj2oVh5L5DQ#Aus_d

November 24, 2013 at 7:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Philip Lipetz

So that explains the moire, its the active steadyshot feature which is a software based stabilisation. Because of the full sensor read out theoreyically we should not have moire. And if we turn actuve steadyshot off and just rely on the optical steadushot, moire diappears and sharpness increases significantly! Pretty amazing!

November 24, 2013 at 5:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Quobetah

That's pretty interesting!
I guess since the active steadyshot crops a bit into the image the re-sampled video must take a bit of a dive in quality.

November 24, 2013 at 8:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mr Blah

All the mid-range 1080p cameras are just placeholders for the 4K capable units. Sony's own A7 designers admitted to avoiding the 4K feature due to the heat build-up within that camera's thin body. The hint contained within that interview was that 4K will be present on the more beefy Alpha 99 replacement. Additionally, since the bulk of the processors are using the ARM technology, new developments in that field such as the Snapdragon series (now up to 805 model number) will allow any smartphone size camera to feature 4K. As nice as RX10 is, it's no more than a stop-gap for a pro shoot.

But it surely takes nice images - [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d80gzn4R87w ]

November 25, 2013 at 1:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Dear friends.

I can confirm from the following regarding Sony's RX10 SteadyShot as stated by Sony's technical marketing manager:

-Optical SteadyShot Active Mode: roll correction is achieved by crop-out of the picture.
-Optical SteadyShot Standard Mode: pitch and yaw correction are done only with optical stabiliser function, therefore no cropping.
-OFF: Neither optical nor electrical stabilisation is processed.
The resolution of Active Mode is a bit worse than the other 2.

Standard mode and OFF should be the same image quality.

Thank you!

Johnnie

November 26, 2013 at 12:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Johnnie, any rumors on what Sony got in store with their prosumer interchangeable lens 4K lineup?

November 26, 2013 at 6:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Hi DLD

Sony already showed a 4K VDSLR concept camera during NAB 2013.
(http://nofilmschool.com/2013/04/sony-teases-concept-4k-dslr-octagonal-ca...)

Thanks!

Johnnie

November 27, 2013 at 6:56AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Prosumer?

November 27, 2013 at 7:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Hi , i need a different cam for live events that my Panny GH2 just can't manage with hdmi ouput not sending audio in live mode..
Can anybody confirm audio is sent via hdmi in liveview and record ? and hdmi is clean and at least 720 resolution?
thanks.

December 14, 2013 at 1:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Henry

Not impressed...

December 17, 2013 at 8:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mladen

Lol... This cam is light years ahead of a low end DSLR... Then to compare to a BMCC.. Lol
A great cam for those fed up with low end DSLRs and needing a bid sensor.. And fed up with zillions of lenses no decent AF or headphone monitoring, nd filters etc etc.. Really ..

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January 27, 2018 at 7:57AM

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NEM
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