March 11, 2014

Hacking the Feature Film: Can You Get Two Shots at Once Using a MōVI?

movi combo

Having a two-camera set-up can have many great benefits. It can cut down on your production time/cost, streamline your work and make it more efficient, as well as provide much-needed continuity to the final product, which will ultimately raise your film's production value. If you're working with a skeleton crew, a multi-camera rig might be a good solution to having to hire more people, but be forewarned -- there can be pitfalls to that set-up (e.g. Tommy Wiseau's multi-camera/multi-format frankenrig that he used in The Room). Filmmaker Rubidium Wu puts this set-up to the test, mounting a Blackmagic Cinema Camera and a Canon 5D Mark III to a MōVI 10 gimbal stabilizer to see if he can cut down on costs, time, and even permit applications!

This is a guest post by Rubidium Wu.

A few months ago I was putting together a budget for a million dollar 'low budget' feature film and something struck me. Some of the numbers were big. Really big. This got me thinking: is all this stuff really necessary to make a good film?

Over the past decade, film production has gone digital, but many of the practices (and subsequent expenses) of filmmaking have been carried over from the celluloid age. The size of crews, how sets are built and lit, the way scenes are blocked and shot, are all time and cost intensive. I'm not saying that 100 years of film technique is obsolete (I've shot some big budget commercials on 35mm,) but I wondered if with the right story and connections, I could utilize the last decade of technological improvements to make a feature film for half, or even a tenth, of the normal cost.

The central question here is, "How far can filmmaking be stripped down and still retain its narrative power?" In other words, what's the cheapest you can make a good film for? After all, a good film that gets made is better than the perfect one that gets stuck in development hell and never produced.

I set out to make a thriller that draws strength from its constraints. I looked to the horror genre: a swath of films have succeeded (and spawned countless rip-offs) because they used their inherent limitations as a stylistic choice, such as The Blair Witch Project and Paranormal Activity. The "one room feature," where the fewest number of actors interact in the fewest numbers of locations, also appealed to me. This sub-genre includes movies big and small, such as The Killing Room, Exam, The Disappearance of Alice Creed, and Hitchcock's famous Rope.

After watching a couple of these, I realized that my main challenge would be to keep the story moving when the characters cannot. The same four walls get very tedious after a while, and we still needed to build and light a set that would be worthy of the time we'd spend it in, with wild walls nestled within a sound stage.

The polar opposite of the "one room feature" is to keep the characters constantly moving. In New York City, you do not need a permit to film in the street unless you put down a tripod, or block traffic. And then it hit me: if we could come up with a film that consisted of mainly daylight exteriors, and if we moved fast enough not to attract attention, we could get the texture and beauty of Brooklyn's streets for free.

With all the disclosure of the NSA's domestic spying program, and the continuing revelations about cyber warfare, a gritty urban thriller emerged in my head. With a script in hand, I brought collaborators on board, and a production plan of our feature began to take shape.

In the past couple of weeks we have been testing a two-camera rig mounted on the MōVI 10 in order to shoot both wide and close up shots in one take. With surveillance as our subject matter, we will incorporate CCTV-style GoPro footage and longs lens "private eye" shots into the film and get extra coverage. As we plan to capture less stylistic camera work than a typical feature, we are excited to showcase our actors' performances.

Because the cast lives near and has access to the "set" of the Crow Hill neighborhood streets, we plan to rehearse the film on location for weeks leading up to principal photography. We could even shoot these rehearsals, edit the videos, and refine the scenes before we start official production. We are excited to expand upon the experiences gained during my last project, The Silent City, a post-apocalyptic zombie web series shot in abandoned locations around New York City.

Ultimately we arrived at the plot of Crow Hill by working backwards from the usual method. We started with what would be cheap to shoot, and crafted a story around those limitations. Will it be a success? I don't know. I'm more interested in telling a good story than I am in making the next Paranormal Activity. More than anything, I hope we can try some new ways to make a film and help other people make theirs. We'll be doing detailed behind-the-scenes videos about the problems we face and the solutions we come up with. We'd love to hear comments and feedback from anyone who has undertaken a similar project.

We're currently running a kickstarter campaign to raise the $22k cash part of the budget. If you're interested, please check out the video and consider coming on the journey with us.


RBRubidium Wu trained as a painter, but became fascinated with the potential of film to unite art and technology. Over the last 17 years as a filmmaker, he has produced the art documentary 'Portraits of Silence' and directed commercials for Nike, Playstation, and Nintendo. His web series, The Silent City, was crowdfunded on Kickstarter and has been watched over 2 million times online. Originally from Melbourne, Australia, he now lives and works in Brooklyn, New York.

Your Comment

66 Comments

Obviously they didn't use ML raw in this test, the bmpcc looked so much better :) I'm interested to see how well the 2 cameras will blend, I have the same setup, and when in raw they can intercut pretty seamlessly. The 5D3 is better in terms of moire, but the pocket has "richer" and more pleasing colour.

March 11, 2014 at 8:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

Have to disagree. Technical aspects aside I actually think the 5D looks a lot better and more cinematically immersive in my opinion.

March 11, 2014 at 9:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Sean

Have to disagree with your disagree.

March 11, 2014 at 9:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ed

I have to agree with your disagree of his disagree.

March 11, 2014 at 1:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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keith

Here's one thing we can all agree on: I'm really confused now.

March 11, 2014 at 1:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4489

I agree with the guy below me.

March 11, 2014 at 7:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I disagree with your disagree to disagree.. love the 5D

March 11, 2014 at 2:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Archie

+1

March 11, 2014 at 3:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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JAYE

which one is which?

March 11, 2014 at 4:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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poromaa

I agree to the +1

March 11, 2014 at 8:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ed

I like the idea but is it just me that feel the wide footage doesn't look stabilized by the MoVI? I could be wrong but please let me know if it is just not me that think the footage is not well stabilized.

March 11, 2014 at 9:32AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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The angles are so close - it really just looks like a punch in. I would think it would be simpler to film in 4k (as long as it isn't cost prohibitive) and punch in in post for a 1080p delivery.

March 11, 2014 at 9:58AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ed

That's because it is a punch in.

March 11, 2014 at 3:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tyler

It isn't a digital punch in.

March 11, 2014 at 3:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mark

Good luck with the film!

Just incase you didn't know, NYC Film Permits are not required when "Hand-held cameras or tripods are used and the person filming does not assert exclusive use of City property."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/film/html/permits/permit_required_fee.shtml

March 11, 2014 at 10:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

neither shot looks stabilized! I agree with Ed. shoot 4k and crop in to 1080. it looks like a punch in anyway.

March 11, 2014 at 11:11AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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steve chase

Interesting setup. I'm working on building a similar rig (sans stablization, but a 2 camera rig) for skateboard films, using a GoPro on the magic arm.

I just think they need to buy that camera op a pair of roller blades because it's bouncing a lot. Or maybe it just had to do with how high he was holding the rig?

March 11, 2014 at 11:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Pat

you know its nice to have enough crew people on set so that you aren't killing yourself and working a 10-12 hr day. its not bad to keep people working.

that said, the new gear does completely change what you need. my example is the short I did in one day, 2 person crew and while it was 18hrs, it was a relaxed shoot with breaks and no one killed themselves or was completely wiped out. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngY7iGbVI-A shot on C100

I think the thing that made this happen was that camera. I know what this would of taken shooting on older cameras or 35, a LOT more lighting to overcome the technical limitations of those recording mediums. in this case I shot from 800 to 2000 ISO, and a few shots at 5000 all in C log. I used vastly less lighting including a couple LED lights bounced on foam core rather than pulling out the HMI's I had ready to go. even some trees outside a window at night light up too bright with a LED panel light on 1/2 power. power windowed that area down in grading. nice problem to have !

March 11, 2014 at 11:21AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Man... I have to be honest, I don't like that at all, but each to his own. The difference is too small to warrant the cuts at all, almost like saying "my footage is too boring I need this!!"

March 11, 2014 at 11:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I think this has potential, but they clearly didn't spend enough time prepping with the Movi.

March 11, 2014 at 12:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Wow

I can do way better motion shots without the obvious foot stomps with my Glidecam and less to worry about since it is purely mechanical. I agree with everyone that posted to use 4k and give yourself latitude to create closeups and wide shots. The only real reason I see to use 2 seperate camera bodies for this purpose is if you are going to put a art lens on one such as a fisheye to give 2 distinct looks.

I looked into using 2 separate cameras side by side on a rig for documentary work and it was just twice the hassle with no payoff. I simply now just use one camera worth of footage and crop in and out for the effect you are experimenting with. Only when I use a long side interview shot and move to a straight on closeup or side profile shot does another camera and tripod / monopod come out and play.

anyway my 2 cents. good luck with your film!

Digi-

March 11, 2014 at 12:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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digiman

This isn't a bad idea, but I don't think it would necessarily cut down on shooting time or make things easier. It doesn't give you more coverage. What ruins one shot will ruin both shots. The sound guy is certainly not going to be happy when you tell him you've cut the number of shots in half. Plus, usually you cut to get a different perspective or to coverup a break in the performance. This set-up doesn't get you a new perspective. Also, cutting between the two cameras may get you perfect continuity, but why would you make a cut between the two cameras when it wasn't to get from one take to the next or to cut out gaps in the performance? At the very least, the close-up needs to be much closer or the wide much wider. As it is, even with perfect continuity the cuts feel like jump cuts because the angles are too similar. Still, If you want to maintain maximum resolution and still want to have multiple crop options on a take without using 4K, this isn't a bad idea.

March 11, 2014 at 1:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Casey

A Glidecam and a 4K camera is a much simpler way.

March 11, 2014 at 2:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ebrahim Saadawi

For real. And it won't look like shit as this example showed. The footage from the two cameras doesn't even match, look and feel wise. It looks like the low budget digital push ins from a low budget made for tv movie. Not to hate but this is one example of how all this new technology is making most of the new filmmakers out there lazy.

March 13, 2014 at 9:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Jorge Cayon

Thanks to everyone who read the article and took the time to comment. A couple of updates, ideas, answers:

1) I have tried the 4k shooting wide on glidecam on my last project and didn't like the result. I think its due to the depth of field being the same on both shots. We tried adding some vignetting to differentiate but you always end up compromising the close-up, which should be your priority.

If you're curious you can see it here. The scene in question starts at 3:17. Shot on a RED Scarlet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2rG7-iSQ60

2) The BM pocket cam was tricky to use and got very hot over the 30 minutes we shot. I'm exploring some alternatives such as Gopro and the Canon SL1.

3) Something I learned about the Movi was that once its 'running' you can't touch the camera until the Movi op has switched it to a different mode. This means you need all camera adjustments, including focus, to be remote.

March 11, 2014 at 3:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rubidium

..you do understand that you're talking about a product that still doesn't exist in the market? In addition, they said they would be shooting ML raw, sooooo, not sure about what you're talking about..4K for punch ins is just so much less important than colour and dynamic range in narrative. If we were talking about a documentary in the jungle then sure, GH4 all the way. But wait, I forgot, where can I buy a GH4? :)

March 11, 2014 at 3:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

pwned

March 11, 2014 at 4:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Anon

You know, aside from the part where that camera isnt released for another month and a half.

March 11, 2014 at 3:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Chris

double-pwned

March 11, 2014 at 4:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Anon

Let's hope Movi doesn't see this. This is the worst Movi footage I've seen so far, looks like it was shot with a shoulder rig. How hard is it to set things up properly before you're going to post an entire article and publish it online ... I really don't get it.

March 11, 2014 at 3:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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An expensive rig with two cameras to get a wide and a close simultaneously to save time and money?.... Obviously they have never watched Robert Rodriguez's 10 Minute Film School on El Mariachi...

March 11, 2014 at 3:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Robsquatch

and what do you think would happen if you made el mariachi now? people would laugh.

March 11, 2014 at 6:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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eckel

He uses a technique to get wides and closeups in the same shot with a single camera. All you need to do is use your brain rather than spending money on equipment. I don't know what this has to do with the lasting quality of El Mariachi...

March 12, 2014 at 4:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Robsquatch

I love your enthusiasm and ambition. Just terrific.
I look forward to the day that results in something watchable.
This is terrible.

/I've made the same mistake of looking at large budgets and thinking: we can do this MUCH cheaper! In reality, yes, and no.
Mostly no.
/Dallas Buyers Club was shot for >3M cash, actors worked for scale, shot in 22 days, no ADR(!), no fx, 2 handheld cameras, everyone stayed in motels, and the makeup budget was $250.
Even a Blumhouse runs 2.5m to 5M before marketing.

March 11, 2014 at 4:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon

For those complaining about the footage- it's a camera test.

March 11, 2014 at 4:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Casey

Soaps can shoot upward of an hour of footage per (12-14 hr) day. Now, they obviously do it on the set but, IMO, it's possible to come close outdoors. In fact, Guiding Light, before being canceled by CBS, managed to come close to that with the handheld digital. And, if it can be done, this is probably what a production will need - 3+ cameras with 3 camera operators (probably each with the 3-Axis stabilizer on an EasyRig type of a body support); fully rehearsed dialog and blocking; lav mics; a reasonable sized crew.
.
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubfY74jmdRc&list=UUbse5pDS-Hq3JB1Pai0IjUQ ]
.
This is GL from 2008.

March 11, 2014 at 4:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

DLD: I don't think anyone should show that as an example of something to reach for. I'm baffled that was broadcast on TV, it looks beyond awful.

March 11, 2014 at 6:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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eckel

There are several problem with their look on YouTube -
1) they were using the same shooting/acting/directing techniques for the outdoor as they did traditionally for the indoor set;
2) the equipment was mid-00's HD (IIRC, 720P camcorders);
3) it was probably uploaded to YouTube in 240p, as the show itself was canceled way back when.
.
The point being, however, is that it's possible to shoot 40 pages of dialog in a day outdoors. Indoors, soaps have been known to do as many as 140. Do they cut corners? Yes, absolutely. But I think there's a lot to be learned from how they manage to accomplish their task.

This was from last September :
"HuffPost TV has learned exclusively that Academy Award-winning writer-director Francis Ford Coppola spent some time on the set of "The Young and the Restless" this week. Apparently, he is interested in learning more about multi-camera and live TV and was on set and in the control room of the hit CBS daytime soap".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/francis-ford-coppola-young-and-...

March 11, 2014 at 9:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Soaps look like crap period.

March 12, 2014 at 2:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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eckel

i'm surprised how shaky that footage was for being on a MoVi.

March 11, 2014 at 4:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ben Howling

4K. 4K. 4K. 4K. 4K. 4K. 4K. 4K. 4K.

This is why 4K will be useful in the short term -- reframing shots or adding "faux" cameras.

If this was shot on the BMPC or upcoming GH4, there would be no need to cobble together Franken-rig. You can handle it all in post instead.

March 11, 2014 at 5:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Who would have known that using two cameras with different sensor sizes and different lenses/focal lengths can be replicated by one 4K camera by just punching, screw tele lenses, you can punch in, lol..the things we learn in NFS :)

March 11, 2014 at 5:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

lol

March 11, 2014 at 7:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marcus

@Michael - FWIW, during the BVE 4K discussion, Phil Boom said just that. One 4K camera can substitute for two Full HD cams. He was mostly talking about interviews - where there's little need for 4K - but, under a one-man-band type of a scenario, he shoots with 1D C using a wide angle lens and then punches in for close-ups in post. Could something like this work here? I don't see why it can't, especially if time and budget are in short supply.

March 11, 2014 at 9:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

@DLD you clearly didn't understand what Michael ironically said. By changing to a tigher lens you not only punch in, you change the perspective perception, the depth of field will be different as well. Not to mention punching in 4k footage you dont get the sharpest image as well.

March 11, 2014 at 10:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marcus

The depth of field will be the same whether you punch in on 4K or use a new focal length lens.

March 11, 2014 at 11:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Casey

@Casey, Not True, just get a DoF calculator app and check for yourself if you can't notice the difference in the image, each lens size comes with their hyperfocal distance, hence the dof will vary from one to another.

March 11, 2014 at 11:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marcus

I do understand what he said and how he meant it. I added what I thought was relevant to the discussion. Clearly, some time saving techniques come with their own shortcomings. As to resolution, if one shot in 4K, the punch-in could still retain reasonable sharpness. Then one could downsample 4K to 1080p just to match shot resolutions.

March 12, 2014 at 1:22AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

DLD, with all due respect, you are quoting P. Bloom (who is a lovely fella, but...) and you don't understand DOF (judging from your answers). I'm sure that punching in works if you don't have the time/cameras, but It's in no way the same as using & choosing different lenses. My point was simple.

March 12, 2014 at 6:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

@Michael - what is there not to understand about the Depth of Field (or DOF with different cameras/sensors and their corresponding lenses)? With regard to Bloom as it concerns this particular project, my point was that one can pick a lens and a 4K camera with quick AF, frame the wide shot, then cut/punch-in to the individual pieces within that wide shot in post. Bloom is using the technique in his interviews with a claim that the 4K 1D C (without top tier AF, as is expected on the new Canon Cinema series and presumably offered on GH4) lets him have the 1080p closeups for which otherwise he'd need a second operator. Now, this mythical second operator is why the subject of this post was experimenting with a dual camera setup. Multiple cameras/operators was, however, the reason why Frank Coppola visited the set of Y&R.

March 12, 2014 at 11:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

You're right. Did some quick calcs/research and realized that punching is not the same as using a new lens on the same sensor size. You'll lose more DOF using a longer lens vs punching in.

March 12, 2014 at 1:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Casey

Thanks for spamming every single threat with your out of subject links, even on YouTube you'd be flagged as spammer. Honestly.

March 11, 2014 at 6:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marcus

This post should have been titled "please give me money - by idiot with movi" .

1. can't even stabilize a shot with a movi.
2. Your gonna cut from what mid to a slightly less mid shot? good work genius.

get a refund on your movi and pay someone who know what the fudge they are doing to help you.

March 11, 2014 at 6:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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eckel

I just can't see how on earth this would cut shooting time in half on any real project - you're not getting two different setups at the same time, you're just getting two different focal lengths. Big difference. Changing lenses and repeating a shot is a lot less work (and time) than changing rigging, lighting, sets and camera movement. Add in the extra time managing two battery-, media- and lens systems instead of one, and not a lot of time has been saved (I do realise that for this particular project, rigging, sets and lights will be kept to a minimum, but even so, different focal lengths do not equal different angles and not everything needs to be covered in wide and close, making for reduntant shots and needless extra costs in post).

But of course, if the B-cam is not a big hassle and doesn't compromise the camera operation in any way, then it's a good thing to have because why not.

However I do think one should be considered definite A-cam and the other a bonus B-cam, just to keep the filmmaking deliberate and focused, always making sure that everything you need is covered with the A-cam.

March 11, 2014 at 7:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Davíð

really cool! I'd love to see how this film unfolds with other simple indie tips. Best of luck guys.

March 11, 2014 at 8:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Nate

I've seen a lot of these dual camera setups lately and really must say that different shot sizes don't cut well together unless they have at least a 45° angle distance between them. Of course all rules are made to be broken but this is one rule that you really have to be
CAReful about

March 11, 2014 at 8:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Fernando

If you jump from at least two standard camera lengths, say from a 24mm to a 50mm or greater, it doesn't look too bad.

March 11, 2014 at 11:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Casey

I don't like it... It always look "jumpy" to me... The best solution is always to spend some time blocking the scene properly and then let it play out in front of the camera using as few angles as possible.

March 15, 2014 at 12:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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NOFS Please find more indie feature filmmakers like the guy who shot Sleepwalkers on the BMPCC, RED and 5DMk2 ML RAW.

March 12, 2014 at 7:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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zachariel j shanahan

Either the MoVi operator doesn't know what they're doing or the two cameras seem to be throwing off the balance. You seem to be sacrificing composition in one of the cameras and pulling focus on two cameras at once seems like a pain. Seems like two camera operators shooting 4k would save more time than anything.

March 12, 2014 at 7:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Paul

The pros either A get a Steadicam or B. Put two cameras on a fisher with a u-bangy. But hey this is $50 film school we're talking about here. Less poop more decent articles.

March 13, 2014 at 12:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Lose

Does anyone know which camera is the BMPC and which is the 5D?

March 13, 2014 at 9:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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poromaa

"a good film that gets made is better than the perfect one that gets stuck in development hell and never produced."

Yes, yes, yes.

March 13, 2014 at 11:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Wanted to buy a Movi until I saw how shaky it is on this film. Thanks for saving me the bucks...

Dano

March 13, 2014 at 8:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dano

I could understand the two camera rig if you were using special features that are not just a change in the focal length. A camera in infrared or a camera with a fish eye. But why (other than the definition) bother with two cameras almost from the same viewpoint with two different focal lengths. One is a sub crop of the other, dirt if by trigonometric design. Why? On a handheld you're likely not to be exploiting different depth of fields, or one in 2.8 with an 8x filter and another one without at a more normal exteriors diagram ? Why?

March 14, 2014 at 4:13AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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George Chiesa

I think it's a great idea To Use 2 Cameras. I Do It All The Time. I'm Also Thinking Of Getting The BPMCC. If You Could Take A Look At My Film Trailer STEEL CHAMBER, I Shot it With The Canon C300 and C100
Go To http://steelchamberthemovie.com

April 20, 2014 at 12:08AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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