July 2, 2014

The Canon C300 Just Got Another Big Price Drop

C300The Canon C300 was announced nearly three years ago (alongside the RED SCARLET), and since its release it has been a workhorse for many TV, doc, and reality productions, with quite a few movies thrown in there like the Cannes-winning Blue is the Warmest Color and the recent indie hit Blue Ruin. Its light weight, good dynamic range, EF lens compatibility, and excellent low light abilities have brought many productions out of the 1/3" or 2/3" realm and into the large sensor arena. While the price dropped $2,000 a little over a year ago, the C300 is seeing yet another price drop, this time to an all-time low of $12,000.

This $2,000 price drop applies to all variations of the C300, including EF and PL, and also the new cameras which are shipping the with Dual Pixel AF autofocus upgrade built-in:

Canon C300 EF 2K Price Drop

Obviously this is still out of the budget range of many people, but it's not really a secret why this camera gets so much use on so many productions. The big question now is when we will see a replacement. Since Canon also dropped the price $2,000 last year to $14,000, these price-cutting moves don't necessarily mean anything new is imminent -- but it's definitely part of their phase-out plan that they do with most higher-end camera models. I do think something new in this price range is coming with 4K video, but Canon has been rather unpredictable at times, so we could very well see a new 4K camera in a C100-like price range.

Since the C300 was the first large-sensor video announcement for Canon, it stands to reason that it will be the first to get replaced, but we'll have to wait and see. The IBC show in September would be a logical time for the company to announce something new, but they may also create their own event just like they did with the C300 nearly three years ago.

Link: Canon C300 -- B&H

Your Comment

97 Comments

Canon have taken so much flak, I hope and suspect they will come good with something quite interesting. I know they make occasional slip ups in quality control, but there is something to be said for conservative product testing and supporting a product to actually make it last a three year life cycle before replacement. I imagine most C300 and C100 users are happy. I believe the sensor in those cameras is the same one in C500, so 4K capable, but can anyone speculate what might be coming ? (Cough, marklondon, cough).

July 2, 2014 at 7:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Saied

I happen to be one of those very satisfied users Saied. In fact I just ordered a second C100 today. People are often complaining about how underwhelming the Cinema line specs are but these cameras sure do deliver incredible results when in the right hands. I am definitely looking forward to the future announcements because higher frame rates would be nice :[)

July 2, 2014 at 8:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Daniel M

C500 is a different sensor than the 100/300. just read the specs, its a different size !

July 3, 2014 at 12:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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All 3 have the exact same sensor.

July 3, 2014 at 8:03AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Can confirm, I own a C100 kit, it's been flawless.

July 4, 2014 at 6:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tony

Gosh... I just got 2 more C300's ... time to get some money back in this case!

July 2, 2014 at 7:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Not to knock Canon but recently did a shoot with 3 of their cameras, all the cameras shot a different codec...5D, C100 and C300...its kind of bs the c100 doesn't have a professional codec to be frank, I get product separation but they seem to stick it to the prosumer models just to force adoption of slightly different models... thats such a bad thing to do to customers, its why i bought a red, phantom, and soon arri...they don't play the bs games canon and sony do...

July 2, 2014 at 8:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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brian merlen

Look at the price difference between an Alexa and a C300, or even a Red Scarlet and a C100 OR 300. You're comparing apples and oranges by staying Canon should have professional codecs in their pro-sumer line, and comparing it to a company like Arri or Red (who's cameras are leaps and bounds more expensive).

July 2, 2014 at 8:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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dembek

@dembek it is Not apple to oranges I merely used those high end cameras because someone mentioned that Sony color science was not good , those high end cameras have Sony sensors which is why I mentioned

However there are several cheaper cameras that have just as good of an 8bit quality and even better with more features and possible higher than 8 bit video qualities such as the F3 , Gh3, fs700 both of which have Sony sensors for less even a used s35 that's ancient but still has better codecs and runs laps around the c100 in terms of dynamic range can be bought used for about $8 to $9k

July 2, 2014 at 10:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

actually canon has 50mbit mpeg2 422 in their $2500 1/3" plamcorders. there is no reason the C100 is crippled with the crappy AVChd 24mbit codec when it could just as easily do 45-50mbit h.264 that their dslr's do. and for that matter doing 100mbit would be quite doable on SD cards. the question is, where is ML on doing the most basic hack to upgrade the data rate on these cameras ? as some one who owns a C100 I had to buy a ninja blade for another $1000 + SSD + extra batts + SDI->HDMI converter to have a suitable recording format. I shouldn't have to do that. in fact I'd be willing to PAY a reasonable amount to have h.264 50 / 100 mbit on the C100. canon take my money !

July 3, 2014 at 12:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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While the C100 codec is 8 bit, 4:2:0, 24mbits h.264, I have never, ever used any other codec that surpasses it in terms of gradeability except for raw, and that includes some 10 bit ones.

If you want to go by specs, the 550D has a codec similar to the c100, they're both 8 bit 4:2:0 h.264!

Where did the C100 image fall apart with you? I can push the image so far that it makes makes me doubt it's 8 bit 4:2:0 sometimes, how they make such a pushable, banding-free h.264 codec is beyond me

that's what the C line is great at, delivering high image quality in a tiny h.264 container to 4 gb SDs!

July 3, 2014 at 9:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ebrahim Saadawi

Just plug in an external recorder brah

July 3, 2014 at 11:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cine

FUCK. CANON.
That is all.

(C500 is perty kewl though)

July 2, 2014 at 8:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gordon

Hu - uh Did Too Did Not U - Huh Oh Ya ? ........ Ya ...

July 4, 2014 at 12:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dheep'

No internal bit rate recording higher than 8bit or externally , really no reason to get this camera other than lowlight capabilities IMO I'd rather get a fs700

July 2, 2014 at 8:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

Except the C300 just has a much nicer image than the fs700, whatever the bit-rate...

July 2, 2014 at 8:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Davíð

Depends on how/who's tuning in the picture profile. You can't customize your picture coming out of a C300 nearly as much as you can the picture coming out of an FS700.

July 2, 2014 at 8:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gordon

That's your opinion the fs700 has a cleaner look and is just as good in lowlight with new update , not to mention that it has 240fps , and filters , and can do 2k, 1080 444, and 4k up to 60fps externally

No matter how good you think the c300 is vs the fs700 at the end if the day you're stuck with 8bit and 8bit will always be 8bit with ugly possible banding that you have to mask in post usually with noise , which defeats the purpose of using higher is I for cleaner noise free images

July 2, 2014 at 8:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

Plus, hasn't the FS700's dynamic range been measured at 13-14 stops, while the C300's is more like 12?

July 3, 2014 at 1:26AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tzedekh

Every time I've used an FS700 I've been disappointed in everything except the slow motion. And even that has tough artifacts near high contrast lines. Usability wise the FS700 is a catastrophy and image quality is ... ok but not good in low light in anyway. And skintones really suck.

July 3, 2014 at 7:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mikko Löppönen

Agreed. It struggles in low light and skin tones are much to be desired. Canon still has some of the best color rendering in regard to skin tones. If I was shooting a feature, I would likely mix in footage between the C500 and the Alexa. Or, if there happened to be a Dragon laying around.

July 3, 2014 at 10:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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RidingtheDragon

How many features have been shot on fs700 and how many for c300. Maybe that will tell you that there are other factors other than the specs.

July 3, 2014 at 10:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ryan

I was a big fan of the C300 image (used it on many projects) and despised the image of my FS700. Now I have the Odyssey 7Q and you wouldn't believe how much it improves the look of the image. IQ wize it is now superior in every aspect to the C300. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k926SsW_6pE

July 3, 2014 at 1:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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and the FS700 + Odyssey 7Q is still several $$$ cheaper than a bone stock C300.

July 3, 2014 at 11:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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sean

I own an FS700 + 7Q and have used C300s several times. The image from athe FS7Q blows doors on c300. Much better highlights, less video looking,10-bit codec and I love the skin tones from SLog. Canon skin tones are so artificial looking. It's funny that after DSLRs, people are coninviced that Canon is the gold standard in color. FS7Q is a considerably better camera than C300. Try both, then post.

July 3, 2014 at 1:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene Sung (non-...

Little went the a7s sony, but I have to admit that I don't like Sony color science, still see that canon is better in this regard. However I think that Canon has been stingy with its technology and has forced us to look at Panasonic and other brands with much interest (just bought the lumix gh4). If only it had placed 60 fps right now would be owner of a Canon C100, however the a7s have gone more away and shoots 120 FPS in 720, which indicates to us that Canon has to go in this regard, not all the time using slow, but Canon has to open his mind and also thinking to offer a camera similar to the nikon d810 or sony a7r in terms of resolution for photography

July 2, 2014 at 8:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Carlos

That is BS Sony has the best color science in the game

#facts

The F65 Is the best digital camera available in all areas

- the dynamic stills camera digitally d800 uses a Sony sensor
- Sony makes sensors also for Panasonic cameras

So please stop it with Sony not having color science right , if you shoot 10 bit or higher then the colorist usually handles the rest in post

July 2, 2014 at 9:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

Sony color science is some of the best

Not only do they make the best cinema camera in the world but the f55 and f5 is not far behind the king camera the F65

They also make some if the best sensors for stills like d800 and a7s , etc

Hassleblad maker of possibly the best medium format digital camera has done several partnerships with Sony

July 2, 2014 at 9:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

No, Sony does not have the best color science. No.

July 2, 2014 at 9:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Enjoying Some G...

The Sony f35 has done more big screen box office movies than all red cameras combined infact up until about a year ago is was still widely used on many TV productions

One of the best digital cameras ever in terms if color gamut , do your research

Red is still tweaking has been tweaking their dragon cameras for almost a year since announced release date and the camera has not been real world production battle tested either the jury is still out in the red dragon

July 2, 2014 at 10:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

I see. Well you love Sony quite a bit.

July 3, 2014 at 12:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Enjoying Some G...

Got rid of my FS100 because I could not stand the look of the footage. While some cameras emulate film to some degree. Sony emulates video quite harshly.

July 3, 2014 at 12:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

Agreed. They don't have the best color science. But, the F65 is a good camera.

July 3, 2014 at 10:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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RidingtheDragon

You have seen Red Dragon, and ARRI?

July 2, 2014 at 9:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Enjoying Some G...

The red dragon does not have a global shutter

Also while the dragon looks promising , the F65 has been battle tested and used for some time now

Third the original king cinema camera digitally long before Alexa or dragon was the Panasonic Genesis which basically was a repackaged Sony vari cam

The genesis even today is neck and neck with an Alexa sans 2k pixels
Sony has produced beautiful productive cameras for years

Do your research before you make biased bs statements

July 2, 2014 at 10:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

I think you mean Panavision, not Panasonic

July 3, 2014 at 5:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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bestdpflife

I have no doubt that sony f65, f55 and f5 color science is very good. I'm talking about the new a7s and also include the fs700. I own a sony a6000 which is a camera that was released recently and that in theory had a better color than the canon70d. Now that I see the a7s videos it looks like much of the a6000 because share the same sensor and I'm going to say that your image is not great, color leaves much to be desired despite the fact that I bought you touit zeiss lenses. and I don't see so far a video of the a7s exceeding in color to the canon c100, being that the c100 is not a new camera. to could tell that the blackmagic 4 k has better color and appearance of cinema than the fs700 and the a7s.

July 2, 2014 at 10:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Carlos

@Carlos gotcha and agree with those statments , my overall point was that SONY does have experience and history of making proven cameras with good color science, i just do not like when some people make BS statments about Sony having a video look or not having color science together when that is utterly nonsense, but i agree with your statements.

It will be interesting to see how the A7S holds up, even though the camera is 8bit, the dynamic range even in lowlight looks very promising, if the camera does not have terrible banding then it still may be a game changer amongst indie filmakers even at just 8bit.

July 2, 2014 at 11:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cJay

The A7S has a sensor that was designed specifically for the camera and currently no other camera uses it.

July 3, 2014 at 5:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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neil

Sony F5:
http://vimeo.com/99421874

Sony F55:
http://vimeo.com/98462796
http://vimeo.com/72598776

F55, F65:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xasvQYdvSD0

Sony F55 a-cam, F65 b-cam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1KY_pMBVXQ

If you only look at one clip, look at the first one. And then come to tell us, that Sony color/image is bad. Maybe it used to be, but it certainly is not anymore.

July 3, 2014 at 4:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Juhan-i

Just as good as ARRI and cheaper.

July 5, 2014 at 4:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rich

Honestly, if you've shot 10-bit, using the C300 is a very underwhelming experience.

July 2, 2014 at 8:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Johnny

If you've shot 10bit, anything less than 10bit is underwhelming.

July 3, 2014 at 12:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I hated the specs on C line when they first emerged, however I have come to realize that Canon made a extremely wise move. At the time Red and a few other camera makers were offering 4k. At the same time the DSLR revolution was in full swing. Why create a camera system that their newly created target audience could not afford to financially outfit properly (rigs, powerful pc, more storage, media, batteries,etc). Plus who would want to have to upgrade alot of their gear to handle this new weight? Finally 4k is not here!

July 2, 2014 at 8:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Krishna Yalla

4k is now here! sony and panasonic have it clear, but not only that have improved the rate of pictures per second, if Canon reaches only 30 fps, would be a real disappointment. It's been three years and nothing new high-impact of Canon. I hope they will surprise us now, otherwise many will have to migrate to other brands. Many people already are migrating not? It's the fault of the lens adapters? No! ... is Canon

July 2, 2014 at 9:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Carlos

@cjay: Dude...chill out with the specs shit. We shot a film that had it's world premiere at SXSW '14 with a 5d III using the h.264 codec. People thought it was shot with an Arri Alexa. Come on. Did your imagery distract from the story? Did your imagery convey the story? Those are the two questions you should be asking. Enough is enough with specs. Make a fucking movie. International premiere at Locarno '14. What did you shoot of note with your sweet specs? I challenge you to a 16mm dual any day. Peace out.

July 2, 2014 at 10:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dudeoflife

What are you talking about , I only made one post about specs and it was relevant to my opinion of picking a fs700 over a c100 and the specs were there to back up my reasoning in comparison

All of my other comments have been replys directed at me , if you do not like my statements then stay out of my conversation

Not to be rude but using specs further more proves that I'm not just trolling or babbling bs

I did not call anyone out of name nor did I curse or use derogatory language

So once again if you do not like my replies then stay out of my conversation

July 2, 2014 at 10:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cjay

I can just so tell you're a douche. Make a film. Then we can talk.

July 2, 2014 at 10:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dudeoflife

@Dude you act as if you won an academy award or something , so what if you made it to SXSW, you ignorant fool that is not the topic of conversation, nobody cares about you debuting a film at SXSW with a c300

As a matter of fact you could shoot 500 pictures with a c300 and it will still have possibly banding in the skies and will be inferior to a gh4 which paired with a future external recorder is more than half cheaper than the c300 and superior with 4k and 10 bit.

You can not make a legitimate reply or statment , this is why you reply and choose to name call and use words like DOUCHE or make references to your SXSW film that nobody heard of, go away with your mediocre statments and trolling mentions.

July 2, 2014 at 11:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cJay

Nope. Not acting like I won anything...though I have. And it was a 5DIII, not a C300. Your talk of banding, codecs, etc. is tired and played out. Get over it and make work. That is what matters.

July 2, 2014 at 11:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dudeoflife

Hey dudeoflife, might be a lot of folks here think you're the douche.
And if people were telling you your mk3 footage looked like an Alexa, they're either lying, blind, the only camera they own is a mk3 or have had 0 experience with either of them.

July 2, 2014 at 11:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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@DudeofLife you sound hilarious comparing a film you did with a 5d3 and saying it compares to an Alexa, you probably do not even have a hacked 5d3 at that. Even RAW on a hacked 5d3 dynamic range is no match for an alexa.

Now this is not to say that you can not make a great film with a 8bit camera but what everyone is saying pertains to "Bang for Buck" and specs related to the price of the C300.

You sound very immature saying that banding from a 8bit camera and codecs are tiresome, if that is the case then maybe we should just ignore camera specs and capabilites all together.

I tell you what , you continue to flush money down Canon's throat for limited overly pricedd 8bit cameras while the rest of us in this community choose cheaper highly capable cameras for a fraction of the cost.

July 3, 2014 at 12:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Chase

Wow. Just make movies, dudes. He wasn't comparing a 5DIII to an Alexa. He said else did. And that person probably proved a point. The film got the message across. The imagery was there. The story was told. But you're right...all that matters is that there is 10bit output. Jesus. I'm with you, DOL.

July 3, 2014 at 2:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Sammy

Fury Road cut in 5D footage with Alexa captured footage. You will not be able to distinguish between cameras. Just wait. Sometimes, you guys get lost in the tech and not about who's behind the camera. I get tired of company bashing.

July 3, 2014 at 10:22AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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RidingtheDragon

If you couldn't distinguish between the two then you're right, it's the one behind the camera. The one behind the Alexa handled below its potential.

July 4, 2014 at 1:55AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Enjoying Some G...

Don't worry cjay, others readying can see you're talking sense :-) And I agree, from the beginning, Canon has been very disappointing with their specs. Of course now it is much worse for Canon, as tech moves forward so fast that to just be able to stand still you have to be running flat out trying to improve! Canon only holds such a prominent place with filmmakers because of their huge marketing muscle as part of the Canikon duopoly.

July 2, 2014 at 10:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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arrghh... reading, not readying! Wish these comments had an edit function :-/

July 2, 2014 at 10:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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@David thanks bro, im far from a troll and make statements with facts and logic as opposed to BS tuff guy talk or meaningless ramblings.

July 2, 2014 at 11:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cJay

@Dudeoflife - Agreed. It's about who's behind the camera of that 5D.

Shot on the 5D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UP1VtoGXRs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnlPgo9TaGo

Even Marvel's The Avengers utilized the 5D for a few shots.

July 3, 2014 at 10:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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RidingtheDragon

It is still overpriced. I guess this is hint the sales are weakening.To be honest, I think it wasn't selling before because of it crippled specs but just because the earlier 5D revolution made everyone so committed to Canon system and EF lenses that C300 easy step up. Sad fact is that if you look doc/corporate etc jobs.. this camera is still the most reasonable choice. Yes FS700 with 7Q would be much better but needs rigging.. but if you own one, it shouldn't be too hard to convince client or producer to go with that instead of C300. And when you run into project wanting something better than C300 (4K or even 4K RAW or just a camera with bigger price tag cause there's budget for it) then FS700+7Q camera won't cut it cause it doesn't have reputation although it may do the exactly same quality picture for example with F5.

July 2, 2014 at 10:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ts

I hear you and you do make some valid points but i refuse to pay or see no reason for paying $12k for a 8bit 1080p camera that can not do higher than 60fps, i would take a fs700, 3 gh4s with nd filters/rigs, or possibly a few new a7s cameras with rigs before paying $12 for the c300 and will still have change left over for lighting , media, and other things

July 2, 2014 at 11:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cJay

For the lower level jobs which C300 works you don't really need 60p. If you need to overcrank you usually need 100... 120 or more to start with requiring you to rent something else. I said it is overpriced, but it is also the camera many producers know and suggest (yes, producers making camera decisions for DPs) so if you look at it on perspective of making the money back from the camera (jobs or renting it out to your pals who most likely are more or less on the same level with you), then C300 is fitting for most of the jobs because 25/30p is enough for like 95% of lower end jobs and 8-bit doesn't matter either. C300 is still cheap enough so that you don't need to own 5D too because some clients can't afford you with C300, you can still do the jobs with your C300 and make your own life bit easier. Going for F5 or RED is already big overkill for those jobs so they are not good buy unless you work on level where most of the jobs need require them. But then you most likely have to invest whole lot to PL lenses and other accessories.

Back to C300... I wouldn't buy it because I don't want to support the strategy Canon has... and it sickens me they brought out their cameras with such a high price with crippled specs. Talking from the indie filmmaking perspective FS700 with 7Q is much better buy, it even beats F5 to me. Of course when it comes to paying client you may need to have F5 just because FS700 is too "cheap" for that job. It's like walking to a set without light meter and people think you are unprofessional...

July 3, 2014 at 3:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ts

THIS...All of this!

July 3, 2014 at 11:24AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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sean

Honestly I wouldn't pay $2000 for a C300. There just seems to be better options. If you want a do it all, GH4. Filmmaker wanting more dynamic range - Blackmagic. Low light - A7s. What does the c300 have that those three don't have. XLR inputs? Built in NDs? Eh. Not really worth $10,000 extra. Maybe like $500 extra.

July 2, 2014 at 10:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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@zach

+1

July 2, 2014 at 11:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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cJay

@Zach, haha, I was gonna say it might be an OK buy at half it's price but, you topped that with "I wouldn't pay $2000 for a C300". Agreed.

July 2, 2014 at 11:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Unfortunately it is has become a game where camera is decided by which camera producers know... which camera client may expect to see after spending certain amount of money to the shoot. "I'd like to shoot with A7S" "What's that?" ... and then they think you are unprofessional and find someone who wants to do it with the camera they expect DP to shoot with. If you shoot for yourself, you can go with any combination that gets best bang for the buck.. when you get hired for jobs you can't just appear there with any camera and say this is better and cheaper even if it is true.

July 3, 2014 at 3:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ts

Read and watch Dave Dugdale's GH4 review and why he is ditching Canon and going Panasonic... http://nofilmschool.com/2014/06/dave-dugdales-gh4-review-retire-canon-ds...

July 6, 2014 at 11:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tom

Canon's price drop is an attempt to stay relevant. They have major updates to do along with the price drops to earn my money.

July 2, 2014 at 11:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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the comments here have made me lose a few IQ points.

July 3, 2014 at 12:24AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Yes, many needless, useless turns.

July 3, 2014 at 12:40AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Enjoying Some G...

Are we quite though with the mud fight?

July 3, 2014 at 12:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Enjoying Some G...

It seems Canon must have it's new line coming out. I don't think this is an eye-on-the-GH4 move. BlackMagic did seem to do eye-on-the-GH4 moves because they are aware of what the GH4 can do with video. Canon wasn't moved much by what the GH's were doing. They have their devoted clientele who may be not be concerned about GH's because GH still photography cannot hold a candle to Canon still photography. So Canon shortcomings in video don't faze Canon users or makers.

I am guessing, like the blog writing above, Canon has 4K cameras ready to come out soon and wants to make sure the inventory of the old line is sold.

Canon is coming in late to the 4K scene. 6K is already moving in. How long till they get 6K?

July 3, 2014 at 1:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Enjoying Some G...

Off rumor sites, Canon has a Non-disclosure Agreement expiring in mid-August IIRC which is when they are expected to announce their new products for PhotoKina in September. That said, C300 has been a major warhorse for many a shooter. It produces pleasing enough images and it works (and the work flow is also reasonable). But, as a 3-year old camera, it's time for it to retire.
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@Andre - Red has a thingy called "motion mount", which is ~ $4K on top of what you may pay for the camera itself. It has an electronic shutter that acts de facto as a global shutter.

July 3, 2014 at 4:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Having been an avid NFS reader for the best part of the year, and still being relatively new to the industry, I have to give me 2 cents about Canon.

I come from a Nikon stills background, and moved to video about two years ago. When making the transition, everyone and every review site basically told me the same thing. If you want to do video, go Canon (5d3). Two years later, and I am starting to regret that decision. I placed my order for the GH4 last week, and fortunately I kept all my Nikon glass.

I think all filmmakers are in a tough period of time due to the wide selection of tools available, without there being a definitive solution. Right tool for the right job?

But then why does one have to spend $1000s of dollars to get merely 'pro-sumer' gear and not cinema grade/quality. I guess that is just our industry.

Does the RED Dragon really have rolling shutter? (read it on this thread)

My camera feature wishlist (technical specs);

10 bit recording (internal or external, doesn't matter to me)
global shutter
1080p up to 120 fps (ideally @ 4k, but let us be realistic) (also no line-skipping or softness like the GH4)
4k up to 30 fps (should theoretically be close to the same bit rate as 1080p at 120 fps)

if any camera had just those 3 features (i understand a camera can have those features and deliver terrible color/image.) for anything less than $5000, I would spend my money instantly.

Current solution: GH4 + GoPro Hero 3+ (can't wait for GoPro 4)
I shoot mostly extreme sports videos.

for a fraction of a Dragon.

July 3, 2014 at 1:04AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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André

Canon is probably one of my favorite camera manufacturers. I think canon is smart for not jumping instantly into 4K and taking their time. When they release there new cinema line I think we will all be very satisfied just like a lot of us were with the current cinema line. Yes I know I want slow motion 10bit good codecs and even 4k but that can't be just thrown into a camera. I know from experience I bought a BMPC4K although it does produce beautiful images it wasn't thought through like a c300 which is being used by 100s of production houses and camera operators for all types of work. I just hope we get a c100 type camera with the specs I want so I can justify purchasing one. I would love to buy a c100 right now but I know 4k is around the corner and I'd rather have a camera that will last me much longer.

July 3, 2014 at 2:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Caleb

I still rent canon cinema cameras for certain gigs even though I have a camera that can shoot 4k raw. I don't throw my black magic on my shoulder and cover an event that's what a c100 or 300 is for. You get nice image quality that is nice on skin tones with a manageable codec. People who want all these crazy specs don't seem to be people that work in the industry but just make independent films. Nothing wrong with that but the majority of the work these cameras are used for is commercial and documentary work which I mainly do. These are just tools if we force every camera into being a hammer then we're only going to get one type of job done. It's good to be diverse.

July 3, 2014 at 2:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Caleb

No Film School now seems like a place for pissing match. You cant Compare 8bit to 10bit neither can you compare 4:2:0 to 4:2:2... but there is nothing i hate more than the whole crap talk about quality when most people cant even tell a frichen story! IF you Are a really Good DP you can make any camera a film camera with proper aesthetics to be visually appealing and bring a great story or documentary to life. And Again, to each is own, You like Sony, I Like Canon, (or Black Magic, Arri, RED [which i think is over-hyped]).
Sure canon could do something to upgrade certain specs but some of us would have never even had the opportunity to own something that shoots proper quality if it wasn't for Canon and their market disrupt so let not knock Canon. No Matter what anyone says i think that Canon still has the most flexible system and also better color science. Still think that C300 is too damn overpriced and i do agree that canon needs to step up and give these other guys a run for their money.

July 3, 2014 at 3:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Z-Axis

Your point make no sense, of course you cant compare 10 bit to 8bit because they are night in day in terms of color information.

However you can compare a $12k camera that is limited to just 8bit internally and externally to cameras that cost a fraction of the price that are capable of so much more in all aspects .

Also there no Adults on here are arguing or fighting, only the trolls and kids alike, several of us on here make valid points and meanful statements, it just so happens that when comparing cameras you have to include specs because other wise it would just be a back and forth fanboy argument.

It is very easy to decipher trolling and the talk of nonsense on her versus people that actually know what they are talking about.

July 3, 2014 at 5:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Chase

Guys chill out. What's the point in fighting over specs? Specs won't take you anywhere. Just see if a camera is good enough for you to achieve your vision and helps you in earning a living. If we can squeeze the maximum out of this camera, or from any camera, then we are a winner. We don't have any ideal camera. There never will be any ideal camera. Shoot with what ever camera you can afford to buy or rent. If it pays your bills, and helps you survive and thrive, then that is the camera most suitable for you. At times one may need a combination of a few cameras to achieve the shots that one has in mind.

I own the C300 and love the image. I would obviously love slow motion capability at 1080p. The dual pixel update is a great move by Canon. Though I need it, I am unable to send my camera till mid of next week as I am busy. And still don't know if I will be able to do so, as one gets lot of last minute broadcast jobs. Despite many 4K cameras, the C300 will continue to be used atleast for the next few years. Life is too short for regrets and negativity. Go out and shoot as that is what gives us all the pleasure. Camera is not your wife. :) When the next great camera comes out and if you can afford it, then sell your current one and upgrade.

July 3, 2014 at 4:40AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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@sabyasachi no one never said that the C300 was a terrible camera, what many many of us are saying is that in 2014 the price does not justify a $12k price tag , no matter how you try to slice it , the price is absurd.

To be honest the c300 should have been the c500 from the start and the c500 should not have had a higher price tag than $10k IMO , especially since it needs an external recorder just for a 4k 10bit

Even the hacked 5d3 is capable of 14 bit HD internally.

i mean seriously this is a $12,000 camera that only does 60p in 720 not even full hd , seriously this camera at the price tag is a joke, a $400 go pro or pocket A6000 or rx1000 3 can do better slow motion video at a fraction of the price all under 1k

July 3, 2014 at 5:31AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Cjay

I have paid my hard earned money to buy a C300 and hence not a defender of Canon so there is no need to attack me. Second, I would love a C300 at the price of a GoPro or a BMC so that I can afford several of those. Unfortunately, Canon is not going to listen to such a ridiculous suggestion. Pricing is a complex science and every organisation follows a different pricing strategy.

The way every potential customer has the right to evaluate whether a product is good value, similarly the company also has the right to decide what is fair for it. It is a free market. If a lot of people think that Canon is ridiculously priced and decide not to buy its products, then the company will be forced to take action. So either it will a)reduce the price of the product or b) phase out the product and launch another at a lower price.

The Pricing decisions are based on strategy of an organisation. Some companies follow a cost plus pricing which means if the total cost to manufacture one unit of product is X, then the company will charge X + a small amount of profit (say Y).

If this method is to be followed by Apple for its Iphone, then the iphone should be around 100 usd for the BoM(Bill of materials) plus some for other costs plus a small amount of profit. So it shouldn’t cost more than 200 usd.

Some companies use a Premium Pricing strategy. The premium they charge gives an impression of premium quality. It also goes with the image of the brand of being high end or exclusive. Arri adopts a premium pricing for Alexa. It virtually lords over the high end. People swear by its quality, service etc and the premium pricing adds to the image.

Some companies adopt a market penetration strategy. So they price the product low to ensure lot of sales. Black Magic which was new to manufacturing cameras created lot of hype by virtue of its pricing strategy. It is another matter that it struggled in other areas. Once a company adopts a market penetration strategy for a product, it can later on increase the product prices by releasing other variants.

Some companies adopt a market skimming strategy. So if a product has been launched a price X and has been sold for sometime, and if the company feels that the sales have become lower because the universe of potential customers at that price band has been already tapped, it decides to lower the price to reach to the next level of customers. So from say X the company can lower the price by 12-15%. All this is estimated by deciding the price elasticity of a product. It is in the interests of the company to keep the product in the market as long as possible and sell as many as possible so that it recoups the initial investment along with sizeable profits. Arri took the smart route to create the Amira which is the same sensor as Alexa but in a different form factor and a lower price than Alexa. So the life of that sensor is now prolonged by several years and the company makes profits. However, Arri still sells the Alexa side by side at the moment.

However, if some consumer feels that the value of the product has dropped from X to 0.5X, then there is a disconnect between the company and this customer.

Even if there are new product launches at a lower price and with higher specifications etc, slashing the product price is often a suicidal move for a company. If Canon is to listen to you and reduce the price of C300 to say 5K USD, then existing users will be up in the arms. There will be huge discontentment. Remember how people felt cheated when RED slashed the EPIC price?

Immediately the rental amount charged by people will drop. Its perception about a top notch product will also get a big hit. Resale value will also go for a toss. In short, it will be a lose-lose situation for all.

Canon is doing fine here. It is enhancing the quality of the product first by software updates to enhance features and then the Dual pixel upgrade. The discounts are gradual so that the existing users don’t panic and the cameras age gracefully. If Canon can find another hardware update to give some more features at a cost, it will do so, so that the overall benefits to the company as well as to customers are more. However, rest assured, despite all the rants in this site and elsewhere, Canon will not drop the price of C300 to ridiculous levels.

July 3, 2014 at 1:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Amen

July 3, 2014 at 6:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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the_watcher

When the C300 came out I was in full swing Red Fanboy mode. I thought the whole Red Scarlet idea was amazing! I was underwhelmed by the C300 specs.

After using the Arri Alexa, Red Epic, Red Scarlet, C300 and C100, 5D3, 5D2, and 7D extensively I have formed some opinions.

Arri Alexa is the best camera in terms of IQ and usability, but it is also the most expensive.

The Red Epic is right there with the Alexa in terms of IQ and it does surpass it in terms of resolution. It is also a lot less expensive to buy but around the same price to rent. I would only ever shoot on the epic at 5k.... at least 95% of the time, I don't like cropping in on the sensor.

The Red Scarlet is okay, but you are already cropping in on the sensor as a default. I try to never shoot with the scarlet if possible.

The C300 for me is great option for 24p 1080 work. I like to think of it as a Baby Alexa, just in terms of ease of use, good IQ and Dynamic range. The image quality is amazing. The dynamic range is very good, love the cinema mode(log). Love the internal ND's, long battery life, long record times on cheap CF cards. I like how you can position the monitor many ways, Like that it has a top handle, XLR's, good viewfinder, lightweight body, durable, reliable. I love that you can magnify and move the magnify spot while recording to check focus. I thought that the 8 bit codec would be an issue, but it really hasn't been an issue. oh and the low light performance... yes its wonderful.

I just used the C100 for the first time for an even, a wedding. It was similar to the C300 in a lot of ways (ease of use, battery life, ND's, low light performance) There were a few things I didn't like, the view finder, the less movable LCD. For weddings I loved the new dual pixel autofocus, when used with the AF lock function it was super good in helping focus be tack sharp even on moving targets. I am looking at the footage now and I have to say that the 4:2:0 codec is doing fine for this video. I shot cinema pic profile, I have no complaints so far, it is a lot better than any DSLR H264 video I have ever shot or looked at. and for a camera that is $5500 it is definitely worth it.

I should note that I only own a 7D, I rent or have worked on productions with all of the other cameras.

I am lucky enough to live in NYC where at Adorama you can rent
Arri Alexa for $725/day
Red Epic for $725/day
Canon C300 for $200/day
Canon C100 for $150/day

For $200 a day the C300 is a cheap rental a better deal than buying it for $12,000 IMO, still I'd love to have one!

As far as sony cameras, I've played with a F3 but have no real experience with them, I'd say that the f5 f55 f65 all look like great cameras.

July 3, 2014 at 10:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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This somewhat delves into what Peter mentions above. Prices are dropping for a reason. Canon will be releasing new tech soon. At this stage of the game, I would encourage renting. The market is just about to be flooded with even more cameras very soon.

July 3, 2014 at 10:17AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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RidingtheDragon

More rumors came out today with regard to 5D IV - 4K included, out probably by January, 2015 (I assume official announcements will be made at or just prior to Photokina) It may feature a new type of a sensor too. Or not.

July 3, 2014 at 11:35AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

JUST GO TO YOUR LOCAL RENTAL HOUSE AND ASK THEN WHAT CAMERA GOES OUT THE MOST OTHER THAN OTHER THAN ALEXA AND THE PRICE IS JUSTIFIED.

July 3, 2014 at 10:30AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ryan

Raising the price because it is rented more often does not justify raising the price. Rather, that would be greed.

July 4, 2014 at 2:03AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Geno

The Canon Cinema series are excellent cameras with plenty of working life left regardless of the current surge of 4K cameras, just not at their respective price points.

July 3, 2014 at 2:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marc B

It's 1080p!

It's going to be replace in a second for much cheaper than this. I happen to love the C300 and have shot reality TV with them for Animal Planet. Again, I love this camera. But at this price? Why buy this camera unless your clients really want stuff shot in 1080p? Canon needs to step it up and make this camera shoot RAW with it's high ISO ability. Or at least match the quality of BMCC's 1080p ProRes with all the C300 built in features that make it worth buying. It should have higher res with more latitude. The handle on the side should be like the Sony EX-1r, for quicker adjusting. That's my opinion anyways! Sony's new camera shoots at 200,000 ISO and is totally usable. It also has the ability to shoot 4K. Not sure what the latitude is, but the 1080p coming out of it is WAY beyond the 5DMarkIII in sharpness and detail.

July 3, 2014 at 4:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dusty

Sometimes the producer request for camera model is predicated on the budget said producer has submitted to the post house responsible for edit through mastering and deliverables. Some cameras are just easier to work with than others depending on time, budget and platform. Those projects are bread and butter. No caviar, not really a DP choice

July 3, 2014 at 9:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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doug b

BTW, this camera didn't hold up as well as you'd think in the Zacuto Shoot Out. There was a far less expensive camera that did do well---but I won't dare mention its name as it has a loyal following of devoted haters.

July 4, 2014 at 6:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Geno

The C100 can look really really good:
https://vimeo.com/88374849

July 4, 2014 at 3:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I'm expanding from stills into video and I'm rather surprised that the value of the camera is so commonly measured in specs. Here is my tongue-in-cheek valuing of the camera I bought just over a month ago:

--can use all my canon glass +$2500
-- internal broadcast spec in a handheld street-shooting form +1000
-- dual slot recording (no small thing if you've ever lost a day's shoot to a bad card as I have, more than once) + $1000
--internal ND $1000 (yes it's worth that)
--easily fits into carry-on with glass, mic and extra batteries, still body too +$500
--uses cheap cf cards I also use for stills +$500
--low-profile shooting and general maneuvering much easier than with bigger cameras +$500

I could go on. My point is, the c300 allows me to also do practical things other higher spec'd cameras are unsuitable or less suitable for. That is valuable. What other camera offers all of those advantages? Yes I'd love the option of 10-bit but not at the cost of a larger form factor or external recorder (and I don't want to create a storage issue). All things considered, it's the best option for me currently available, even if I'm more than a bit miffed at missing the price reduction by a month. Specs matter but other factors do, too.

July 4, 2014 at 6:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I believe the reason the c300 is falling to 12k is just to make some room in the approx. 15-16k pricepoint c300 originally occupied. I don't the the c300 is going out of production, just that there will be another camera between it and the c500. I think it's the same reason the price fell on the c100 to 5.5k. There will be something new around 8 or 9k to replace it. Because of this reasoning, I predict the c400 will likely still be 1080 with a choice of higher frame rates and the c200 will be just like a c300 is now, but with a crappy viewfinder.

July 5, 2014 at 9:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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derek

A much needed move by canon . This argument is not as straight forward as most and there are a couple of things that need to be looked at .
When the C300 came out it was launched along side the RED Scarlet . The specs were underwhelming a bit and that was clearly expressed by a lot of people including myself . But Canon had started the DSLR revolution and expected the C300 do to where the 5D left off . What happened once the camera reached Cinematographers and went on shoots is well for everyone to see . From a rental house POV i bought the C300 and recovered the money in a months time . That in itself is a big thing and one which anyone who has invested in a camera system will agree with . The people who shoot with it day in day out absolutely loved that camera . The reason being they wanted a camera which not only gave them a good image but just worked . It did everything it was supposed to and delivered what was needed . Most pros want a camera package that is hassle free and that is the main reason why the Alexa is at the top of the game because it works , C300 being second to that in that respect .If i am shooting a project and if i have the option of shooting 8bit 422 C300 , RAW/ prores blackmagic with countless issues , a noisy and expensive on a daily basis RED or even the hacked 5D which is not stable i would choose the C300 which will do almost everything the others can without the headache .

Yes off late there are other cameras which give better image and at a lesser price but then ask anyone who shoots with these cameras , the setup time is quite a bit . Setup time is a huge part of choosing a camera package . It should work out logistically .
Canon lost the plot with the C500 which was a disaster and the number of cameras in the market proves that . C100 promises a lot but again is borderline in terms of features . Personally i don’t have any issues with 422 8Bit what the C300 gives , it proves to be more than sufficient for any project and with movies like “ Upstream Color” which was shot with GH2 shows that it is the person behind the camera that matters . Yes 10bit is brilliant but for documentary , indie films and even tv shows which are on a tight budget as is , every thing counts . If i am getting the desired output with 8Bit why do i need 10 bit or even Raw for that matter . Instead of coming up with new cameras to replace the old Canon needs to focus on better firmwares . The cameras are capable of handling higher farm rates and resolutions and they should be allowed to .

For the argument on which is better FS700 or C300 . Out of the box the C300 image and for that matter C100/C500 is much much better than the FS700 . This is coming from a person who owns , uses and rents out these cameras . Yes the Odyssey 7q is a brilliant addition to the FS but thats extra gear on top .
The main thing is that the C300 is not going to be a good buy even of they reduce the price by another 2000$ simply because they are behind others in terms of tech . But for rental houses they can still be a good investment as there are a lot of projects still being shot on HD and will continue to do so till the point 4K doesn’t become a deliverable standard . For owner operators there are other cameras which will make more sense .

What Canon do from here will be worth a watch .

July 6, 2014 at 2:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Karan

Just waiting that C100 price drops too :-D

July 9, 2014 at 12:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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