August 17, 2016

Oops: Canon 5D Mark IV Spec Leak Might Mark Disappointment for Filmmakers

5D Mark IV images
The camera that kicked off the DSLR revolution is about to release a major upgrade. But is it too late?

While we don't generally run gear rumors or leaks here at NFS, the Canon 5D line is a landmark for our industry, and the leaks about its upcoming revision from digicame-info.com (link in Japanese) appear at this point solid enough to be worth covering. The biggest news for filmmakers is that the Mark IV finally includes 4k recording (what a great branding tie-in, Mark IV: 4k!), though in actual delivery it looks like serious users will be disappointed by its video offering.

When it was first released in 2008, the 5D Mark II was the camera that really kicked off the DSLR video revolution, although unintentionally. The video feature was added because they could, not because anyone feasibly thought it would be used for filmmaking; Canon had an entire filmmaking line of cameras built around HDV (remember that format?) with ergonomics designed for a film set. Why would anyone give up ease of use those cameras brought and adapt a stills camera for film set use, just for the sake of beautiful image quality? Canon apparently thought video would primarily be used by news photographers to capture quick clips in the field, and would maybe see some limited home video use.

 With the upcoming release of the Mark IV, it appears that Canon is trying to make up for some lost ground.

Canon was wrong, of course, and it turns out many people will give up ease of use for image quality, especially when the improvement is as obvious as it was when comparing 5D Mark II footage to comparable footage from HDV or DVCProHD cameras like the popular Panasonic HVX-200. The 5D took fire in the indie film world, and ignited our very own site, with the release of Ryan Koo's DSLR Cinematography Guide. The big-sensor images it created had a cinematic depth of field, beautiful bokeh, and great low light performance without the need for complicated lens adapters, which ate stops of light and were a hassle to operate. It didn't do slow-mo (that would come with the 7D), it overheated all the time, and it was hard to keep the images in focus—but it looked beautiful. 

The Mark III update was relatively minor for filmmakers, especially as other cameras moved into the gap left behind. Canon released the C line with the same sensors, but with the needs of motion image capture in mind, and they went on to some success, but the price point started higher than the 5D line so they never really gained the ubiquity of the 5D/7D. As other competitors have come to dominate the sub $4,000 camera space (specifically the Sony A7 line and Blackmagic offerings, along with Panasonic), Canon had a real opportunity to renew the 5D to keep it prominent in that space. As the Sony and Panasonic cameras prove, filmmakers will still put up with a lot of hassle to get an affordable camera that shoots beautiful images. With the upcoming release of the Mark IV, it appears that Canon is trying to make up for some lost ground.

Rear View
5D Mark IV Leaked Rear ViewCredit: digicame-info

Since it's 2016, 4K is the name of the game with this update, and the Mark IV does deliver. However, since the sensor is 30MP, Canon has to either use a crop (the middle 4000 pixels), or pixel-bin to downscale the images into 4K resolution in realtime. Considering the processing limitations of a DSLR camera, pixel-binning inevitably leads to artifacts including moire and noise, and generally comes with a hit of at least a few stops of low light performance. Pixel-binning is how we got 1080 from the Mark II, but that of course had artifacts galore. With the Mark IV, it appears Canon is going for crop, as it did with its previous DSLR 4k camera options, the 1D X Mark II and 1D C.

If you haven't had to work with a lens crop, it uses a smaller sensor (or, in this case, portion of a sensor), which changes the field of view of your lenses. If you are using this exclusively for video, you can get used to it and build your lens kit around it (though your selection will be more limited with the EF mount of the 5D being primarily meant for Full Frame glass). However, if you plan on going back and forth between stills and video it can be frustrating. A full frame 4K option would be nice, even with its artifacts, but since the 1D X Mark I—which costs twice as much as the 5D line—doesn't have it, we shouldn't be surprised if it's missing here.

The Mark IV is also using the same 4K codec as the 1D X Mark II and 1D C MJPEG 4:2:2 500Mbit/s, 8bit. It's not a terrible codec, but a lot of the competition at this price point is getting image benefits out of H.264 and some are even implementing H.265, so those would have been good options to include for longer runtimes and smaller file sizes. 

It seems with this release that our initial suspicion—that Canon really had no idea what they were creating with the Mark II—is still true. Even today, this is a stills camera with video as an afterthought. That afterthought was revolutionary in 2008, but the rest of the market has spent the last 8 years reacting, and in 2016, the afterthought feels like just what it is. If you have a solid need for stills and occasional video, this is an exciting update. If you a primarily a filmmaker, for this price point there are a lot of competitors that push further. 

TECH SPECS:

  • Dual Pixel CMOS AF
  • AF 61 points
  • 150,000-pixel RGB + IR photometry sensor
  • Anti-flicker
  • Continuous shooting 7 frames / sec.
  • ISO100-102400 (extended sensitivity)
  • Touch panel
  • 4K at 30fps, MJPEG 4:2:2 500Mbit/s
  • JPEG still image of 8MP from 4K video
  • 120fps HD video for slow motion (1080)
  • Time-lapse movie
  • GPS built-in
  • Wi-Fi, NFC
  • Media SD / SDHC / SDXC and CompactFlash TypeII
  • USB3.0 terminal, HDMI terminal (unknown if 1080 or 4K via HDMI, likely 1080)
  • Size: 150.7mm x 116.4mm x 75.9mm
  • Weight: 890g

Anyone thinking of upgrading their earlier 5D?  Or picking up a Mark IV as their first 5D?     

Your Comment

96 Comments

How is it this is getting wifi but the 1DX2 doesn't have it without an adaptor? That's the only spec that doesn't make sense to me.
Other than that, seems exactly like what you'd expect. Minor improvements all around, the only real attention-getter being internal 4:2:2 and maybe theOH LOOK A NEW SONY...

August 17, 2016 at 12:57PM, Edited August 17, 12:58PM

6
Reply

And another new Sony... :-p

August 17, 2016 at 3:09PM, Edited August 17, 3:09PM

7
Reply
avatar
WalterBrokx
Director, DOP, Writer, Editor, Producer
8912

Sony is loving Canon

August 17, 2016 at 5:13PM

8
Reply

If these "leaked" specs hold up it might be safe to say Canon is going to loose a decent amount of DSLR filmmakers to Sony. We'll see

August 17, 2016 at 1:31PM

5
Reply
avatar
Charles C.
Editor/ Director/ Director of Photography/ Wannabe Thinker
1088

Maybe the Magic Lantern people could pull a (helluva) rabbit out of their hat and make it a full frame 4K camera.

August 18, 2016 at 6:46PM

3
Reply
Vidrazor
359

If that would happen - I'd consider buying this. If I would use the same camera for both stills and video - I wouldn't like the crop I'd get from switching the modes.

August 19, 2016 at 4:00AM, Edited August 19, 4:00AM

0
Reply
avatar
Joonas Nieminen
Cinematographer and editor
243

Maybe this leak is secretly intended for public to check reactions from potential customers.

August 17, 2016 at 1:56PM

3
Reply
avatar
JeffreyWalther
Steadicam Operator/Owner
1770

I surely hope so. But don't believe so.

August 17, 2016 at 2:43PM

0
Reply
avatar
David R. Falzarano
Director / Writer / Editor
1371

Haha the reaction doesn't seem good. Sent this link to a group chat of filmmakers I'm in and got three replies basically saying "I'm switching to Sony". Not sure if thats the overall reaction from the industry to this news but again we'll see soon.

August 17, 2016 at 2:57PM, Edited August 17, 2:58PM

0
Reply
avatar
Charles C.
Editor/ Director/ Director of Photography/ Wannabe Thinker
1088

MJPEG! This is sad! And why cropped 4K? If 42MP A7R mk2 can take FF 4k video then why 30MP 5D mk4 can't do it?

August 17, 2016 at 2:00PM, Edited August 17, 2:07PM

0
Reply
avatar
Rayhanur kabir
Director, DP
175

A7RII performs much better in cropped mode than full frame mode. A7SII would be the one to use for full frame mode.

August 17, 2016 at 2:24PM, Edited August 17, 2:24PM

0
Reply

True A7R Mk2 does better in APS-C when it comes to 4K video, but my point is it still does FF 4K video (though slightly soft). Why can't canon introduce something like that?

August 17, 2016 at 3:04PM

0
Reply
avatar
Rayhanur kabir
Director, DP
175

My guess it that the fact that the camera that costs twice as much doesn't do it, they'll keep it out of the Mark IV.

Dumb, but, y'know, pretty normal.

August 17, 2016 at 3:16PM

0
Reply
avatar
Charles Haine
Director/Writer/Colorist

Do the math. The sensor is much larger than 4K. The only way to record 4K without pixel binning or cropping is to use a 4K sensor.

August 18, 2016 at 7:03PM

0
Reply

The question really is how large the cropped area is for 4K. Who really needs full frame for cinematography? The super shallow DOF is becoming the overrused hallmark of the amateur DSLR videographer. You can get shallow enough with Super35. So if the area is close to equivalent to that, I don't see the issue.

Also other factors like rolling shutter and so forth will determine whether this camera is good for cinematography. Personally, I don't have a dog in the race. I'm not a Canon shooter, and don't intend on switching.

August 17, 2016 at 2:11PM

0
Reply
avatar
Christopher Kou
Production Manager
145

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/08/depth-look-video-specs-canon-5d-mark-iv/ 1.7 - 1.6x, might as well buy a cheaper camera

August 17, 2016 at 2:47PM

0
Reply

It's not about shallow depth of field at all. It's about being able to slap on a 35mm lens and it being true 35mm instead of 50mm, and so on. I personally prefer working with FF over any other size.

August 17, 2016 at 6:55PM

0
Reply
avatar
Kaster Troy
Director, DP, Editor
1027

That's complete nonsense. If the lens is a 35mm, it's always a 35mm - are we still having this discussion after all these years? APS-C is essentially the same size as super 35. If you want to talk equivalent field of view for cinematography, at least define it in terms of a motion picture standard. Your 35mm lens is a 24mm equivalent on your 0.7x crop "full frame" 5D.

August 17, 2016 at 9:22PM

0
Reply

Pretty sure we all understood what he meant. I applause you taking the opportunity to try and make some else feel stupid though.

August 18, 2016 at 7:03AM

0
Reply
avatar
Logan Fish
Video Journalist
217

I don't get why those people feel that way.

Are you ever going to want to work with a person like that on set? No
Are you ever going to want to have them on your team? No
Are you ever going to want to associate with a person like that? No.

It just seems like a stupid attempt to boost their ego when their are on an indie film site schooling people that aren't schooled... It really does not get much lower than that.

August 21, 2016 at 4:41AM

0
Reply
Kyle Dockum
Videographer and Editor
437

@Dominic Mulligan

You don't get it do you? This is real and you need to know this .

Well let me break it down.

35MM represents a focal length.
The focal length is the distance between the center of lens or curved mirror and its focus.

Even though light may come though at a flat plane of glass... Sometimes... light still bends its way into the glass and its completely out of your control.

Which is called angle of view. When you only use a smaller portion of where the light was sent distance it warps the image. Because since you are not getting a larger part of the the curve of light coming in, there is less distortion which effectively changes the view of the image.

So when a large amount of the sensor has to be cut around the edges, you loose all the edge distortion. Which makes it look more flat.

You are right though, the lens is still labeled as a 35mm regardless if you put it on or off your device. But it is only labeled that for a complete frame of light... not a cropped one...

I am sure if we had lenses that were dedicated to cameras that have crop sensors they would go ahead and change the label to correctly display the focal length it would provide for that camera too... Which would be the micro four thirds market.

The kind of nit picking you are making is really snobby to say the least.

August 21, 2016 at 4:37AM, Edited August 21, 4:37AM

0
Reply
Kyle Dockum
Videographer and Editor
437

A true 35mm for photography...and you call yourself a DP lol

August 19, 2016 at 5:03PM

0
Reply

I was waiting for the 5Dmk4 like for the messiah, specially that was first rumored for Q1. It is insane why they aren't taking pace with the DSLR video competition as they were clear leader of that segment for long years. Sony A7s2 knows all this specs and still better for about a year now, with added and quite well working sensor stabilization. Although it is a great camera, I don't like to work with it, Canon DSLR simply fits better - maybe because Sony feels like a toy camera:-)
A dream is broken for me, I was really hoping that I will get again the perfect still + motion combo in my hand again. I think Canon will lose a lot in the DSLR video segment.

August 17, 2016 at 2:14PM

0
Reply
avatar
Miklos Terei
DOP/Cinematographer/Editor
104

Also the colors straight out of canon cameras are nicer, even though with simple color grading you can close the gap due to Sony's higher achieved color portrait depth

August 17, 2016 at 2:48PM

0
Reply

You and me both: I'm in the camera market myself, and was holding off on Sony waiting to see what the Mark IV would bring.

Sony (or MAYBE Blackmagic) here I come.

August 17, 2016 at 3:22PM

0
Reply
avatar
Charles Haine
Director/Writer/Colorist

Im a huge fan of blackmagics current line of cameras. I shoot red scarlet and use my blackmagic pocket camera as the b cam on a regular basis they actually cut very well together after some minimal color correction/grading. We're actually looking at the ursa min 4.6 as a primary b cam and occasional a cam when the Scarlet is out the office

August 18, 2016 at 12:44PM

0
Reply
avatar
Charles C.
Editor/ Director/ Director of Photography/ Wannabe Thinker
1088

I would be shocked if they put 4K into this camera. I have a C100 mark II, a dedicated cinema camera and they did NOT give it 4k. Why would they give a still camera 4K and not give it to their cinema line? Canon is a conservative company and this does not seem like a methodical move on their part. They are behind the curve and not focusing on the needs of their users. They should at very least give mark II owners a firmware upgrade to 4k.

August 17, 2016 at 2:29PM

0
Reply
avatar
Walter Wallace
Spokesperson/Entrepreneur
1148

I agree that they SHOULD go 4k in the C100mII, but I don't think they will.

Remember, cinema and still are different divisions from each other in Canon, and like a lot of big corporations, they aren't always great at coordinating with each other.

My guess with the C100 is that the cinema folks think "well, that's our entry-level cinema camera, they'll go for C300 or C500 for 4k."

Of course, the C100mkII is still pricier than the 5DmkIV will be, so it's a strange move, but Canon HAS to put 4K in the 5D. Even with it, without H.264 or FF, it's gonna have problems.

August 17, 2016 at 3:21PM

3
Reply
avatar
Charles Haine
Director/Writer/Colorist

The C300 does not do 4K. The C300m2 does.

August 17, 2016 at 4:26PM

0
Reply
avatar
Jonathan Gentry
DP Potomac Media
255

We dont know the price the 5D Mark 4 is coming in at, and the C100 mark II is only 3,999.00.

August 17, 2016 at 7:52PM

0
Reply
avatar
Walter Wallace
Spokesperson/Entrepreneur
1148

There wouldn't be much to change if they didn't put 4k in it. Considering the 5Ds and 5Ds r already came out. Also, I don't think 4k in the C100 ii would be as drastic as you think. For example, compare the C300 to the C300 ii. Obviously a lot of things different, but the overall detail of the image is largely only noticeable by pixel peeping.

August 17, 2016 at 5:22PM

2
Reply

Firstly the c100 Mark II came out a year ago. It records from a 4k sensor and downsamples without pixel binning, or cropping the sensor. It has built in ND's and a codec that will record for hours with a cheap $23 sd card. It records in Canon Log and outputs 10bit 422 to external recorder. Has built in XLR with decent preamps for mic input. It has a base ISO of 850 (for canon log) and timecode output Waveform monitor; standard and RGB modes
Exposure/Focus aids: Peaking, Zebra, Magnify, Edge Monitor Focus Assist, Black and White Mode
Drop Frame (DF) or Non-Drop Frame (NDF) Timecode
Timecode modes: Regen, Record Run, Free Run

Take this thing out of the package, slap an sd card in it and toss a lens on it and you're ready to film a doc or commercial.

August 17, 2016 at 6:27PM

0
Reply

Well said!

August 17, 2016 at 11:49PM

0
Reply

Just imagine if it had 4K capability then! ;)

August 18, 2016 at 4:27PM

0
Reply

I see it as a strategic move to make sure both cameras are still marketable. If one does what the other one does it'll cannibilize sells of the other line. From a business perspective it makes since, from a our perspective as customers/users its annoying haha

August 18, 2016 at 12:47PM

0
Reply
avatar
Charles C.
Editor/ Director/ Director of Photography/ Wannabe Thinker
1088

this will actually be awesome. Dual pixel autofocus and if you can touch the screen like the 70d. you'll have an easier time framing it when attached to the ronin. I really love the 70d but its image wasnt great, so this 5d mark iv has it's place !!!

August 17, 2016 at 3:09PM, Edited August 17, 3:13PM

0
Reply

If I'm going to upgrade from a DSLR, it's gotta be a cinema camera.

August 17, 2016 at 3:50PM

0
Reply

sorry if i seem like i dont have a clue, but everyone saying there now moving to sony and just wondering whats wrong with these specs

August 17, 2016 at 4:01PM

7
Reply

Haha. I know what you mean. For me there's only one problem:

MJPEG 4:2:2 500Mbit/s

Ouch. 500Mbit/s is 5x the data as the GH4 or A7whaterver2's.

August 17, 2016 at 5:11PM

0
Reply
Lane McCall
Producer/Director
439

MJPEG is quite old, and very inefficient in compressing vs H.264. It compresses each frame individually, vs compressing based on the content of the frames before/after. Bitrate isn't always an accurate way to determine quality.

August 17, 2016 at 6:45PM

1
Reply

Yeah I know. My point is the data usage. It's an inificient codec and I would need more storage. Doesn't really matter to me though. I likely won't get one.

August 18, 2016 at 5:29AM

0
Reply
Lane McCall
Producer/Director
439

The aversion to H.265 from so many manufacturers is baffling, especially since so many NLE's can now edit it natively. The Samsung NX1 's 4K is surprisingly sharp and detailed for 8-bit/4:2.0 at much lower than the MK4's 500Mbit/s. This may limit the appeal of the camera for anything other than narrative work more than the crop at 4K. The footage will look great if the 1DX2 is any indication.

August 18, 2016 at 12:07PM, Edited August 18, 12:33PM

0
Reply
Marc B
Shooter & Editor
474

h.265 requires a lot of processing power or a dedicated ASIC, and I suspect that this new Canon won't have either of these things.

August 19, 2016 at 11:09AM

0
Reply
Guy McLoughlin
Video Producer
31395

I'm with you. Obviously it's a subjective thing, but I just have never liked much of anything I've seen shot with these Sony cameras people hype to death (A7whatever, FS7, etc). I think the Canon cameras just produce more appealing colors, IMO. Maybe 4K people become obsessed with the extra latitude and just grade their stuff to death. IDK.

August 18, 2016 at 11:55PM

0
Reply
Matt Minnotte
Freelance Filmmaker
102

What a totally opinionated article, that does not reflect reality. The 1DX2 is an amazing video camera with limitations. The image and colors created are far easier to grade than the Sony image. The mjpeg codec is excellent. The autofocus for video is unmatched. The lens choice is unmatched. The mount is EF (nothing close when it comes to options.) Also why are talking about a crop being an issue? Video is Super35 not 35mm. The crop should be 4K @ Super35 or slightly smaller to give us the proper FOV for video.

If people would stop looking at paper specs and start shooting and editing videos this would be a different story.

August 17, 2016 at 4:23PM, Edited August 17, 4:32PM

1
Reply
avatar
Jonathan Gentry
DP Potomac Media
255

Because if I'm going to shoot with full frame lenses, I want to get the true focal length. Most people are not going to be shooting with PL lenses(made for Super35mm) with Canon dslrs. If you do shoot with Super35mm lenses you might as well shoot on the A7rII(crop mode) or a6300 with a PL adapter. Plus the larger the format the more immersive it feels, look at IMAX footage. Why do you think ARRI and RED are pushing for larger format sensors. Super 16mm and Super35mm was the standard because of cost benefits. Now with digital, you don't need to buy the celluloid if you want larger format look

August 17, 2016 at 4:44PM

0
Reply

H.264 H.265 are much more efficient than the archaic Mjpeg format that takes up way too much space on your card because it has to be at 500mbit/s due to the format being more compressed. Just is just Canon trying to save their "cinema" department

August 17, 2016 at 4:49PM

0
Reply

Finally someone who talks sense! I cant get my head around why people are worried when in reality Canon have decent specs. The ease of use on a Canon is unbeatable.

August 18, 2016 at 4:31AM, Edited August 18, 4:31AM

0
Reply
avatar
Ranjit Matharu
Wedding/Events Filmmaker (Ronin Films)
1

I'm with you on the 1DX2. Just had a friend here shooting for a week on his and I have to say I was damned impressed. Sure, it is a monstrously inefficient codec and it ate CFast cards. But my god, shooting with the dual pixel touch screen AF for capturing one-rolling-take improv was a revelation, and the colours were beautiful.

We were spoiled by having the Canon 11-24 mm F/4 monster to shoot with, so the crop (1.3x on the 1DX2) wasn't troubling at all.

Now the 1DX2 is probably a bit too expensive for me to use as a second-string camera, but the 5D Mk IV? Gotta be worth checking out when it is released to see if it's footage and AF are anything like as nice.

August 20, 2016 at 2:18PM

0
Reply
Hywel Phillips
Director / Cinematographer
185

Oh boy... all the technical shenanigans from guys who care more about their gear than the actual films they produce. Get a nice image, nobody cares on the back end how you get it, just get it! One more little thing before I get off the soap box...If you can't make a great film with a 5Dmark whatever, chances are it ain't the cameras fault.

With that said, I share the opinion of a lot of people that Canon seems a bit behind. It seems that we (filmmakers) have given them low hanging fruit to just knock it out of the park with this camera, however we all have a feeling that we'll be slightly disappointed. One thing that Canon is, is consistent. So maybe we can just learn from that little fact and not act super surprised when this thing is officially announced?

August 17, 2016 at 4:58PM, Edited August 17, 5:01PM

0
Reply

It's not about technical shenanigans, it's about helping others understand the positives and negatives with certain gear and help them make the right choice <:

August 17, 2016 at 5:12PM

0
Reply

Honestly, that's what I want it to be too. But I think you know what I'm talking about. I just now realized that my post was kind of pointless after rereading the title of this article. Oh well:)

August 17, 2016 at 5:30PM, Edited August 17, 5:37PM

1
Reply

While you recommend the most terrible video camera ever made the A7S. This camera is he reason specs don't matter. Sure you can shoot in near dark condition, but the image is crap. All the low light in the world will not make that shutter jello go away from all your images. Even images on a tripod have Jello for the A7S. Specs don't matter besides the fact you can shoot 4K, dyand your lenses. Everything else is BS, lenses and lighting matter much more.

August 19, 2016 at 5:20PM

0
Reply

Hey dude, now before you read any of this - We've had our interactions on this forum - and I've said to you already before that I don't hate you - so don't jump up and get offended - this isn't a hate comment, but - you are wrong.

The sony A7s image is great! the camera is fantastic itself. The problem is the people who use the camera -
Yeah, it's great in low light - You still need to light thou. People think because it's good in low light they don't NEED to light it.

I've edited more than my fair share this and last year, from reds, arris, sonys, blackmagics etc, by far one of the nicest images I've seen is the A7s but thats because of the DP's.

August 20, 2016 at 8:00AM

1
Reply

What about the shutter jello? You are okay with all your images looking like they were shot on a rocky boat? Can you not tell? God bless you.

August 20, 2016 at 10:53AM

0
Reply

Shutter Jello? You mean Rolling shutter?

That only happens with ridiculous whip pans or running hand held (aggressively) with the camera.
You don't buy a DSLR/Mirrorless for shooting unless you understand its limitations.
Agian, the camera isn't the problem, it's the operators. People who don't know how to use certain cameras can make the camera look bad.

& I can tell yes man, however I rarely edit DP's footage who don't know what they're doing.
Come on dude don't start being sarcastic and offering silly comments like "God Bless you"

August 20, 2016 at 6:08PM, Edited August 20, 6:09PM

0
Reply

I have seen footage on a tripod from an A7S and the wind hits the matte box causing the image to turn to jello. You obviously can't tell, and that's cool for you. I can't use that crap camera and would never pay for someone to shoot with it. You need to look closer at your footage, I would be willing to bet all of it has noticeable jello. Good luck you'll need it.

August 20, 2016 at 7:35PM

0
Reply

"If you can't make a great film with a 5Dmark whatever, chances are it ain't the cameras fault."

Please make a great film with the Canon 5D Mark 1 and share it with us here. Methinks gear does matter.

August 18, 2016 at 5:43PM

1
Reply

Methinks more time should be dedicated to elevating your mastery of sarcasm if you really think that comment was clever and worth posting.

August 19, 2016 at 12:24AM

0
Reply
Matt Minnotte
Freelance Filmmaker
102

Mark 1 did not have video...

August 20, 2016 at 3:45PM, Edited August 20, 3:45PM

0
Reply

^This all day long! Gear and tech junkies who will bend your ear all day long about every technical specification under the sun related to a piece of gear that produces a moving image, yet don't have a creative bone in their body. Total pet peeve.

Remember the days of those Canon XL1s? Read the comments people are fussing about, yet how great of a film is 28 Days Later? You could've given Kubrick the most bottom end consumer Hi8 camera and he would've created something moving.

August 18, 2016 at 10:44PM

0
Reply
Matt Minnotte
Freelance Filmmaker
102

I've no interest in the video functions Canon thinks important. Cropped-sensor 8-bit 4k? Might as well go Sony. Uncompressed full sensor please.

My interest in this camera will depend completely on sensor read time (i.e. how bad is the rolling shutter in full-frame video), whether Magic Lantern can be ported to it, the size of the buffer, and the combined write speeds of the card slots. The CF slot isn't CFast, but the SD slot could be very quick.

The biggest limiting factor for recording Magic Lantern raw video on the 5DmkIII is the card writing speed -- you can get to 1080p25 but beyond that you can only record til you fill the buffer (people have managed a few seconds of great-looking 3.2k raw video: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16439.0 )

So if Magic Lantern raw video becomes possible on the new camera, and it's possible to write at the speeds necessary for 3k 23.98fps or better, that'd be a significant improvement over the mkIII. If the card slots are no faster than those of the mkIII, then even if Magic Lantern is ported we'd likely be stuck with the same limits.

August 17, 2016 at 5:07PM, Edited August 17, 5:07PM

0
Reply
Zach Fine
Editor
8

Meanwhile many people seem to be surprised or disappointed, I'm holding my breath for C-Log, 4K HDMI Out and MagicLantern.

Actually Canon brought Dual Pixel AF, on-Chip ADC (improved DR) and the 1Dc's internal 4K to an affordable price. Sooner or later I'll go for a C100mk3 anyways.

August 17, 2016 at 6:18PM, Edited August 17, 6:23PM

1
Reply

You lost me at cropped 4K...

August 17, 2016 at 6:50PM, Edited August 17, 6:50PM

4
Reply
avatar
Kaster Troy
Director, DP, Editor
1027

I don't think this will be THE camera for 2016, although i liked reviews of the 1Dx2. But i don't feel for Sony either. A7s it's filled with specs and configurations s-log2 yara yara yara, but the colors seems awful!!! I'm editing a commercial in studio with slog2 and the color correction it's being one of the worst headaches ever! The cameraman wasn't the best, i'll give you that... But is there any setting that keep skin tone more close to REAL skin tones??? or is it just Sony color science? I'll appreciate any feedback on this.

August 17, 2016 at 8:09PM

0
Reply
avatar
Rafa Ga
Digital Film-Video Editor / Colorist / Motion Graphics
227

Maybe take a look at your colorist's abilities. I get great skin tones from Sony slog. But, I've suspected for some time now that some folks have different ideas of what good skin tone is.

It's been said many times, color from Canon is best right out of the box but, with Canon's typical in-camera codecs, you don't have much information there to wrangle a different look. If you''re happy with what you get from Canon, great but, Sony's slog is there to give you the opportunity to have a color palette capable of delivering many different looks. That leeway, for me, far outweighs Canon's 'one look' philosophy.

August 18, 2016 at 11:32AM

0
Reply
Richard Krall
richardkrall.com
1749

Since you seem to have an idea of what i think a good skin tone is, can you tell how is it for you? I´m not expert colorist, but i can do just fine most of the times. But with the slog, it was too yellowish, then seemed too baked even contrasting... My question was about in-camera settings, not about craft skills.

August 18, 2016 at 3:43PM

0
Reply
avatar
Rafa Ga
Digital Film-Video Editor / Colorist / Motion Graphics
227

You say, now, your question was about in-camera settings... sorry, maybe I misunderstood but, seems you were talking about difficulty with slog.

No, I have no idea what good skin tone is for you and I didn't mean to suggest that, either. I think many people have different ideas on what good skin tone is. Somewhat subjective for me, it's a fairly delicate balance of color. Coming from many many years working with stills of female models in Photoshop, I think I've developed a fairly good sense of what skin tone should be. I've done pre-press Photoshop work for ads (with models. skin) in ELLE, Lucky and InStyle magazines to name 3 of recent, developing CMYK conversions from the original RGB files. My clients were quite picky about, not only the color of the clothing but, the models skin color, as well.

Sony slog is not for the faint-of-heart. And, Canon, for most folks not wanting to get too involved in the world of color grading, may be the best choice as 'out-of-the-box', Canon colors look pretty good. My argument with that is, I would rather have a starting color 'field' that allows me to develop many different styles (with slog) than a few (or one) with Canon. Slog has much more versatility and there is nothing wrong with Sony's color science. And, with it, the skin color is there you just have to be willing (and able) to go in and get it.

August 18, 2016 at 5:28PM, Edited August 18, 5:32PM

1
Reply
Richard Krall
richardkrall.com
1749

Watch out, we got a real badass here

August 18, 2016 at 11:22PM, Edited August 18, 11:25PM

0
Reply
Matt Minnotte
Freelance Filmmaker
102

I guarantee your cameraman doesn't know how to expose for log on Sony cameras (if any). Why people shoot log anyway is crazy to me when you have the hyper gamma options on the a7sII (Cine3/4) that give you 10 stops of DR, a super clean and noiseless image, and no issues during grading like you're experiencing.

If you overexpose S-Log 2/3 a little too much, the skin tones fall into the flatter part of the curve and you have real problems. My guess is the footage was exposed in an ETTR method, which will fk up most log footage shot in an 8-bit compressed codec.

August 18, 2016 at 4:34PM, Edited August 18, 4:35PM

0
Reply

I don't even hire people without a rotating LCD, you can forget using this on a Gimbal, Slider, Crane, Steadicam, or hell it won't even work on a tripod.

August 17, 2016 at 8:56PM

1
Reply

Im more than happy with the specs listed here. I did shoot strictly on DSLR's for years but that time has passed. They created a great image for a great price and the footage was good enough to land itself on broadcast and even the big screen. But in all honesty when it comes down to shooting a production it just makes since to get into a "real" production camera. You end up spending so much money on getting your DSLR production ready it just makes more sense to purchase a C100, FS5, BM Ursa, or something else comparable.

I will be purchasing the 5D because its my all time favorite camera. No not because the video is the best thing on the planet but because the pictures and reliability of the camera are amazing. Plus my 5D mark ii has seen better days...

You can beat the living hell out of a 5D and never have any issues!

If it finds itself next to my C300 MKii for interviews so be it. Treat this camera as a B or C cam for video production houses, and an amazing stills camera for professional and novice photographers alike.

If you plan on shooting an indie film pick up a Sony they're cheap and barely need any light. Don't beat up on Canon when you have so many options from other manufacturers.

At the end of the day get out and shoot the damn thing!

August 17, 2016 at 11:04PM

1
Reply
avatar
Caleb Rasak
Camera Operator / AC
341

I must be only one who looking forward to this camera judging by conversation we having. The ease of use and navigation around the camera makes Canon unbeatable. Being on a job and fixing the settings are easier to set in seconds than most cameras out there. The lens available on a Canon is unbeatable especially the L series. First and foremost we have to remember the MKVI is not made for video but photography. Canon just given few add on video features which for many is a joy to work with. Although I would have preferred at 120fps at 1080, but I'm content with 60fps. For the work I do (weddings/events) none of my clients have or ever will ask for spec based camera.

For all the argument for jumping to Sony, I found it difficult to adapt purely because of the body size, poor external lens adaptors, user friendly, focus pulling, colour grading, and lens choices.

Before any release, the camera is tested by professionals, journalists and experts to get their view before it hits the open market. Makes me and many of you wonder, wouldn't the experts have shared many of the views in this conversation with Canon?

August 18, 2016 at 4:48AM

0
Reply
avatar
Ranjit Matharu
Wedding/Events Filmmaker (Ronin Films)
1

poor external lens adaptors, lens choices???? You know you can use Canon, Leica lenses, PL, and PV lenses on E-mount, you can mount almost any lens. You have to take out the guts of a Canon to put a PL lens on that and let me know when you can mount an M-mount lens on the EF mount without once again taking out the mirror. I have no idea what you mean by "focus pulling" that's solely depends on the lens, focus system, and focus puller. And "color grading" on the Sonys is just as easy as Canons. Every camera has different slightly different color, but the profiles can be matched. Sony put an out an Alexa lut for their F55, and alot of guys working at Sony productions switched cause they couldn't tell the difference and it was outputting 4k resolution

August 18, 2016 at 9:21AM, Edited August 18, 9:21AM

1
Reply

Personally after using my C100 mark ii for a year I'll never use a DSLR again anyway, definitely not as an A cam, but maybe a B cam. I don't think Canon care, but believing that Sony, Blackmagic or Panasonic care more is a bit of a mistake. They're all big companies. They all have their strategies and they will probably all sell cameras for many more years and make you believe that 4k, 6k, 8k, 16k are really important. I guess I'm just asking why people would show loyalty to one huge company over another, don't they just want our money?

There's a seriously weird internet culture of trying to hold big companies to account and everyone demanding more and more and more from them. It shouldn't be a surprise that they don't rise to your demands.

August 18, 2016 at 7:36AM

0
Reply
Liam Martin
DP, editor, part time director
883

Just want the same dynamic range performance of kodak portra400 for photos

August 18, 2016 at 9:57AM, Edited August 18, 9:57AM

0
Reply

Im thinking about getting a 5d mark iii Should i wait and get the mark 4 and what price will the mark 4 be?

August 18, 2016 at 8:40AM

0
Reply

I think the announcement of the mk IV will drop the price of mk III. That's why I would wait.

August 18, 2016 at 10:38AM

0
Reply
avatar
Reino Pirttijärvi
Photographer / Cinematographer / Editor
85

I shoot strictly underwater and nothing beats Canon's ability to while balance correctly underwater and produce great color. I was hoping for 4k@60fps as the 1DXII is a lot to drag around underwater.

August 18, 2016 at 10:17AM, Edited August 18, 10:19AM

0
Reply

Oh, Canon...

August 18, 2016 at 11:01AM

0
Reply
avatar
Terma Louis
Photographer / Cinematographer / Editor
1419

Someone correct me if I'm wrong....... Is the difference between this 5D mk4 and a A7s2 that: 5d does Cropped 4K, but fullframe 120fps. A7s2 does Full Frame 4K and cropped 120fps?

August 18, 2016 at 4:23PM, Edited August 18, 4:23PM

0
Reply
avatar
Frogy
Director / Shooter / Cutter
311

Congrats, Canon...you've created a Sony A7RII without an EVF, focus-peaking, or S-log2.

Too late for me. I'm selling my 1DX...I switched to Sony and probably won't look back.

August 18, 2016 at 5:07PM

0
Reply
David Manning
Cinematographer/Photographer
81

The NFS-list is wrong (check canonrumors.com and other sites). It's supposed to be 4K/30p, 1080/60p, 720/120p

August 18, 2016 at 11:58PM

0
Reply

Have fun with that terrible Sony image. Unusable for my work.

August 19, 2016 at 5:35PM

0
Reply

I Will buy this ONLY, and I repeat ONLY if the Magic Lantern community makes a port. Otherwise, I don't think it's worthy.

August 18, 2016 at 5:11PM

0
Reply
avatar
Luc Beloix
Director Of Photography
227

I think one issue people might not be fully considering is that Magic Lantern is going to give you uncompressed 4k footage *if* it is made to work with this camera. We thought 11 mins on a 64GB card was bad news for HD :) I doubt there will be a huge amount of interest for raw 4k. The people attracted to the price point of a large sensor 5dIV video camera will likely not be interested in the price point of the storage. And what about CFII handling the data rate? I continue to assert that one of RED's greatest accomplishments was their wavelet-based compression to make raw data truly workable in a high-resolution environment. It's the codec, not the camera that separates RED and Blackmagic in my mind these days.

Dual pixel with a touch screen is the only thing that get's me excited here. Canon definitely has a leg up on Sony there.

August 18, 2016 at 5:52PM

1
Reply

Honestly, I don't know who (except di-hard fanboys) will go for this. I'm not interested. And I shoot Canon DSLRs! (and Sony FS7 for video). Zero interest in this body.

Bummer. I was eagerly awaiting the Mk IV and since I shoot stills and video, hoped this would be an incredible thing. Meh. I have other options. We have LOTS of other options.

August 18, 2016 at 6:18PM

2
Reply
avatar
Erik Stenbakken
Videographer & Photographer
369

If I didn't own an NX1, I might be excited...

August 18, 2016 at 7:16PM

0
Reply

Everyone just pause for a second. Think back to what was available circa 2004. MiniDV? A Sony VX2000? The holy grail at the time, the Panasonic DVX100? None of those prosumer cameras produced anything even remotely cinematic. And several years later Canon gave us a camera that for a few thousand dollars produced images that didn't look so far removed from what you would see on the big screen. Whether or not it was a happy accident rather than a brilliantly hatched plan by Canon, and regardless of how well Canon has innovated since, they still ultimately kickstarted this whole thing. Maybe stop bitching about what technical specs they're not giving you on their latest camera release. It's the old give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk. For a while every Joe Shmo aspiring filmmaker was plenty ecstatic to have the power to create filmic images at a reasonable price point. Now, it's gotta be 4K. No, that won't do either, I need a specific codec as well. Oh, and that ISO better reach 150,000. And why are you complaining anyway? Just get one of those Sony cameras you all are praising as the end all cameras for video, which seem to have the specs you're trashing this 5D Mark IV for lacking.

Any filmmaker worth his salt knows it's about story/creativity, and what you do with the tools at your disposal. If you can't make a compelling short film, or shoot a nice wedding video, or whatever video project you fancy with one of the first line DSLRs (7D, 5D2, etc) despite their limitations, you might need to just try your hand at something else.

And lest we forget this is a rumored leak! Jesus Harold Christ on rubber crutches.

August 19, 2016 at 11:15AM

0
Reply
Matt Minnotte
Freelance Filmmaker
102

Invalid. Canon has had years and years to get a clue or hire someone who knows something about filmmaking. Their original failure to provide 24 FPS on a video-shooting camera gave us all some insight to their... lack of insight.

Hell, they continued to peddle only interlaced cameras for YEARS after competitors made 24p widely available.

They continue to use ridiculously poor codecs, while pricing their cameras astronomically. It's sad: Canon was the company that other cinema-camera companies feared before they entered the video space, but they blew it with the overpriced and outdated C300 and the rest of their "cine" line.

Canon has exhausted our patience over the last 10 years. Come on, they still don't have a time-lapse function on their cameras. That's pathetic.

August 21, 2016 at 3:02PM, Edited August 21, 3:05PM

1
Reply
David Gurney
DP
1594

I expect this new Canon is going to be like the new Nikon D5, where it's a fantastic still photo camera and a so-so video camera.

My hopes are now on the new Panasonic GH5 for video work... 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording will seal the deal !

August 19, 2016 at 11:20AM

0
Reply
Guy McLoughlin
Video Producer
31395

What people don't seem to realise is that the 5d mark 4 and all other Canon dslr's are not cinema cameras and that dslr's are never going to have cinema quality video as they are designed primarily to be photography cameras. Canon decided to break off their camera line to the c100/300/500 series for cinema video and decided to make all of their dslr's for photography only. Canon's big f up was to release the overpriced c100 mark 2 and continue the c100 series and then shortly release the 5d mark 4 as a photography camera. What Canon should have done is to bring out one camera to replace a c100 mark 2 and to replace a 5d mark 4. Something like a modular mainly video oriented full frame 5d-c camera should be released with the option like RED camera to add on modules to make it more professional oriented or to upgrade the camera.

August 19, 2016 at 11:03PM, Edited August 19, 11:06PM

0
Reply

Are there other filmmakers out there like me? In that, if it wasn't for my Canon glass and the many EF adaptors available I wouldn't care at all about Canon DSLRs. They are clearly behind the pack.

But, since I own and like canon L lenses for small to medium productions, I hold out a bit of hope whenever canon makes a new camera announcement....

If it wasn't for L glass (and EF mount offered on many bodies) I feel like canon would have stopped being relevant years ago.

August 20, 2016 at 5:48PM

0
Reply

I'm not an owner. I know others that own prosumer cameras and lenses for Nikons and Canons (and others). Your statement is also the conclusion I arrived at based on all of my research; the L-glass is terrific, but Canon is more expensive and both Canon and Nikon are slow to react.

Alternatively, I have seen lens adapters that enable Nikons to use Canon glass. It loses auto-focusing, but doesn't appear to lose quality.

Waiting on the open-source full frame camera to hit the market, which works well with all major lenses, packed with features, for 1/3 the price — purely wishful thinking.

August 21, 2016 at 12:51PM

0
Reply

# My Position
I'm not a photographer/videographer, I'm interested in diving-in head first to purchase a prosumer DSLR. I've been waiting on these rumors for over a year, doing the Nikon vs Canon vs Sony / body vs lenses vs features, balancing act. Meanwhile, learning different approaches to photography and videography with lesser-powered devices.

# Confusion
What I don't understand is...
What's the deal with 4K? Why is 4K the focus?

# Technology's Already Moved
Apple has a 5K monitor (http://www.apple.com/imac/) and 8K TVs are already on the market and feeds already coming to them in other countries (http://www.cnet.com/news/8k-tv-broadcasting-coming-to-japan-during-2016-...).

They're expensive, but by the time this camera comes out, they'll be much cheaper. Why build for yesterday's technology when they could introduce a 6K version?

# Full Frame Limits
Isn't a full frame sensor (35mm) capable of 6K (IMAX) footage? Capture everything, and let professionals do the cutting in editing, but please stop acting like 4K is the next big thing. It was the next big thing, 3 years ago.

Also, wouldn't the "brand tie-in" sound better as 5D: 5K?

August 21, 2016 at 12:41PM, Edited August 21, 1:38PM

0
Reply

When does Canon NOT disappoint filmmakers? They have repeatedly shown that they're clueless about motion pictures, from the original 5D's lack of 24 FPS to their continued use of garbage codecs and bitrates.

Hell... these clueless asses still don't have an intervalometer for time lapse on their cameras! This is an essentially FREE feature to implement and should be present on EVERY camera at every price point today. And no, we do not want a clueless "time-lapse movie" mode; we want to take STILLS at full quality at intervals. Nikon got this years ago.

Canon needs a major house-cleaning among management, and they need to bring in a regime that understands filmmaking and photography.

August 21, 2016 at 2:55PM

0
Reply
David Gurney
DP
1594