One of the biggest hits of the year is the romantic film It Ends With Us. The Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively project has made all the headlines for being the movie everyone is talking about from the summer of 2024.
When you see the movie, the editing perfectly blends all the different elements. The movie balances different tones, some serious scenes, and a theme, but all of it works because editor Oona Flaherty was performing the delicate balancing act.
We had the pleasure of sitting down with Oona to talk about the movie and her process.
Check it out below.
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1. Hi Oona! It Ends With Us features several poignant flashbacks of young Lily and Atlas. Can you walk us through the editing process for these sequences?
The flashbacks were such a wonderful part of the film to edit. I felt it was important to edit them in a way that felt different from the rest of the film in that they were not just flashbacks, but also memories. I wanted the scenes to evoke particular feelings that many of us can relate to, having been young people ourselves – the curiosity of teenage romance, our first kiss and first love, as well as looking in our youth for that someone or something to believe in – but in a way that evokes how memory can be selective in what or how it is remembered. On top of that we needed the scenes to give us information to help us understand why adult Lily is making certain decisions in the present time – why is she drawn to Ryle’s character as well as why she is so impacted when Atlas re-enters her life. So it was a balance of finding the moments in the flashbacks to be grounded in reality as well as evoking the more abstract and selective memory moments.
The first thing I always look at when I edit a scene is the actor’s performance. Isabela Ferrer as young Lily was remarkable, as was Alex Neustaedter as young Atlas. A lot of what I looked for in their performances was their curiosity in one another, as well an undeniable draw toward one another – so a lot of glances, looks, and listening moments. In addition, I looked for the moments when they felt free together – we needed to understand their trauma but also see how they were one another’s safe haven. One example is the scene where they make love for the first time. I plucked out these beautiful and fully relatable moments that Justin and the DP, Barry Peterson, were able to capture when the characters are simply in the moment with each other feeling excitement, love, and safety. And because I wanted it to feel nostalgic and like a memory, I used jump cuts to highlight and engage the audience in the momentum of the dream-like the excitement and frenzy of first love that these characters were experiencing.
2. Can you describe the working relationship on the film between yourself and co –editor Robb Sullivan?
Robb is a wonderful person and editor. We were put together on this project not having ever met before. However, because of the time constraints that the film had due to the strike, Justin and the producers felt it would be advantageous to have 2 editors working simultaneously on the film. Robb and I really complemented one another in how we worked on the film. As the dailies came in, we would each gravitate toward certain scenes and take a first pass on those, then pass them to each other for notes. Or, if we felt inspired by the other’s cut we’d take a stab at the scene ourselves, then review both versions and do, what Robb coined, “our greatest hits” of the scene – combining the best moments of each cut together. It was a really fun, collaborative way to work and it went really smoothly because neither of us have big egos. We would sometimes have things that we disagreed on or wanted to fight for in our version of the scene, but if that happened we’d discuss it, bring in the assistants sometimes and ultimately (as with all scenes) show it to Justin to get his thoughts. As we got deeper into post, and things got pretty hectic with cutting and juggling visual effects, sound, music and all things that go into finishing a film, we were so in sync with one another that we were able to divide and conquer. If I was in the edit with Justin, Robb would run visual effects meetings and we’d check in at the end of the day to go over what we both accomplished. Robb is also one of the most optimistic and positive people I’ve ever met, so every day was fun and full of good energy which makes a huge difference when working in this intense business.
3. It Ends With Us includes a few intense scenes depicting violence and abuse. What were your main challenges in editing these sequences to maintain their impact while ensuring they were handled with sensitivity and respect? How did you collaborate with the director and other team members to approach these scenes responsibly?
It was extremely important to Justin, Robb and myself that this film reach victims, or potential victims, of domestic violence. While we wanted to portray both the emotional and physical abuse in the film so that it could be recognized, there was a real effort to not glorify the violence just for cinematic impact or to portray it in a stereotypical way. That was both because we wanted to be respectful of how triggering such depictions could be to the audience, and also because we felt it was important to give a nuanced portrayal of the complexity of domestic abuse, while staying specific to Lily’s story. Justin worked on developing this portrayal from the very beginning. He collaborated with the No More Foundation, fans of the books, victims of DV, and all of the department heads on the film to get as much nuance and truthfulness into the depiction of this story.
For Lily, there is a denial and a blindness to the abuse at first – which from what I heard from Justin is very common for many victims – and then there is also the psychological manipulation from that abuser that gaslights the abused into thinking they are understanding the situation incorrectly. The script did a lot of the heavy lifting as far as building this situation between Lily and Ryle, and Justin had a clear idea as to how he wanted to portray that visually. That is where the idea that the physical violence would not be seen clearly until the moment on the couch came from. We wanted the audience to be in step with our main character, unclear as to the specifics of the physical violence until she was deep into the relationship. This, of course, created a challenge for us in editorial. How do we tell without telling?
When dailies came in, we got two sets of takes for the scenes with physical abuse – one where you see the moment of violence and one set where the actors actions are unclear. It took a lot of different tries to find the right momentum and visual language for these scenes, starting with the kitchen scene when Lily first gets hit. The more we worked on it, the more it became clear that we needed to stay in Lily’s point of view as much as possible. It was less important that we get a clear understanding of the physical act, and more important that we see and feel Lily be confused, in love, forgiving, fearful, and uncertain as to what is happening to her. And like the flashbacks, the language of memory lended to a number of editorial choices like staying in close-up coverage, jumping the line, lingering in moments that you might want to remember by holding in shots, and using jumpcuts to get a sense of gaps in memory. It was also clear that seeing the actual quick moment of violence was much less important than what surrounded it. The moments of manipulation were just as scary, disturbing and relevant as the moment of violence. So we leaned into that more.
One of the most intense moments for me is at the top of the scene where Ryle finally attacks Lily on the couch. He puts her up on the counter and tells her to read the article about Atlas’ restaurant. Justin and Blake both gave incredible performances here in multiple takes – it was very tempting to want to show all of the footage of him being scary toward her and her being scared. But there was one take of Blake where she just nailed it, and every time I watched it I felt her fear so intensely – her eyes, her body language, her mouth – that I knew we needed to stay in that shot for as long as we could. It took a bit of convincing because Justin gave such a strong performance in his coverage, and there was discussion as to whether it was scarier to see his eyes, to see what she was seeing and feel how intense Ryle was being in that moment. But after trying many versions, it felt like we knew what Ryle was doing, we understood that state of mind even without seeing him straight on. Ultimately, we all agreed that staying on Blake was more impactful and despite looking at her mostly, we were in her perspective, we were living through that moment with her. And for women watching, as well as men or people of any gender, those are the emotions we needed to highlight – the victim’s experience.
Oona FlahertyJillian Patterson
4. The birth of Emmy and Lily’s decision to divorce Ryle is a significant turning point. How did you approach editing this critical moment to highlight Lily’s growth and transformation?
The birth scene is one of my favorite scenes in the film, beautifully acted and shot. I had a lot to pull from for the edit. When I approached cutting it, I wanted to convey a constancy of motion in a heightened state of both physical and emotional strength and beauty. I didn’t want there to be time for contemplation of action – but I did want the scene to offer tiny simple moments that made the audience both reflect on these characters' journey and reflect how in-the-moment humans typically are during a birth. Because this was a place in the film that was overwrought with complexity, it also needed to feel somewhat simple, so I decided to try it with a beautiful piano piece and no additional sound. It worked really well. It helped draw closer attention to the minutiae, and, I hope, also added space for the audience to experience it in their own “words”. I tend to be a fairly intuitive editor throughout my work, and this scene was one that didn’t change very much, if at all, from my very initial cut of it.
The divorce scene that followed could not have worked as well, I don’t think, without having the birth scene the way that it was. We come out of this beautifully moving scene into the silence and stillness of the hospital room. The feeling of hope (hope for Lily, hope for Ryle, hope for Lily and Ryle, hope for this tiny baby – it could be any or all of those) is lingering and our characters are newly bonded over the birth of their daughter, and yet there is distance. As scripted, it was important to have Lily invite Ryle back into her intimate space with their daughter and once he enters that space, we tried to stay in the closer coverage as much as possible to both see how Lily is processing this moment in her life and making the central decision of this film, as well as to give Ryle that moment to take in his daughter. It’s a heartbreaking scene, and Justin and Blake deliver an incredible breadth of human emotion through the scene, and although we believe most of the audience is rooting for Lily to divorce him, I still think many people had compassion and sympathy for Ryle’s character.
5. How did you approach editing to ensure that all the characters – including Lily, Atlas, and Ryle – were presented with depth and nuance? What strategies did you use to keep the audience connected to each character’s journey?
I find complicated characters so much more interesting than stereotypes. This film could have lended very easily to stereotypes – the long lost first love (Atlas), the abusive husband (Ryle), the victim (Lily), the comic relief BFFs (Alyssa and Marshall) – but no one wanted this film to be a glossy romantic drama. Everyone at every step knew how important it was that each character was more than one thing. Of course all of this starts with the script and then through Justin’s directing and the actor’s performances.
Watching dailies is a very important time for editors in my opinion. It’s the only time we see a performance for the first time, so I find it critical to take note of anything interesting that I respond to. I am looking for nuance and interesting choices that actors make in their performance – anything that made me laugh out loud, get choked up, be curious about, or just really enjoy. Those notes become a jumping-off place, but also a pot from which to pull when developing the nuance and complexity of a character and a scene. I love to find subtle moments for characters in their “in between” moments – moments when they’re not talking, or not in the central action, but they are reacting. I took an acting class long ago and the teacher said that how characters are reacting to another character is just as telling and important than what the main character is saying or doing. I always keep that in mind when cutting a film, because the audience is also reacting – and oftentimes the characters on the screen inform the audience as to how we as filmmakers want them to react or feel about what’s going on or about a certain character. We are creating the tone and world within which the audience is invited.
The second stage of character building in editorial for me is building out each scene with the best takes based on performance and storytelling – what information do we need in this scene? What is critical to each character in the scene? Then I look at coverage – is each moment better told in a wide angle, close, medium, with the characters both in frame or not? How do we use the frame as a tool for developing each character on their own and in their relationships to one another as well as their surroundings – are they small, big, together, alone? All of this has to be considered.
Another thing I try to do is watch the film from each of the main character’s points of view to see if I am tracking their arc and overall journey. Are we following their emotional journey? Do we believe what they’re saying and doing? Are there any gaps in the character’s storyline that need explaining? Editing is almost always a retelling or reworking of the script – because visual storytelling is quite different than on paper. We’re often moving scenes around, taking things out for time or clarity, adding new elements in and/or reimaging scenes, so it’s essential to revisit the overall story of the film and story of each character to make sure we, as editors, haven’t lost something critical in either the plot or in any one character’s arc.
With It Ends With Us, the most challenging characters were Lily and Ryle. There was a lot of ground to cover and we didn’t want to portray them as just a victim and an abuser. They needed to have depth and complexity; we wanted the audience to both root for them to stay together and to break up, and most importantly feel like real people going through a relatable journey, which was what was so impactful about the book. Everything I have mentioned contributes to building those types of grounded characters, but for this film I think it ultimately came down to finding the balance between characters being comfortable and uncomfortable, triggered and safe, and complicated and real. Not any stereotype.
6. The rooftop scene is a pivotal moment in the film. What were the key considerations in editing this scene to balance tension, intimacy, and character development?
This was an epic scene – I kept joking with Robb that we cut a short film within a feature film! It was an 11 page scene, shot over 2 days and the blocking of the scene had them moving around from one space to another – to another – for different parts of the scene. So it was a tricky scene to cut technically because we were tied in many ways to how the scene was blocked. Robb and I were also very aware of how long the scene could end up being because of this. Let me just say that I don’t have an overall objection to long scenes – I’m a huge Cassavetes fan! Our concern was that it was toward the beginning of a film that had a long way to travel to get us to the end, and sometimes a long scene at the front of a film can drag the energy down and disengage the audience, making our job of reengaging them an uphill battle. The scene also carried the weight of it being the very first, very memorable, first chapter of the book. So we knew we had to deliver for the fans.
The biggest consideration in cutting this scene was getting them from personal space to shared space without undercutting where they both were emotionally at the top of the scene – so the length of the scene was actually helpful in easing us through it. We didn’t want to rush through the beats of them getting to know one another, and through each beat we wanted to find moments that reminded us that they were both struggling emotionally at the top of the scene. So it was a balance of seeing how they were taking the other in, how they disarmed one another, how far they were each willing to go in the conversation, and what their boundaries were. This really came down to choosing the momentum of each section of the scene – the ledge needed to feel a bit quicker and support more flirtatious banter. Then the section about Lily’s name needed to show how funny both characters could be with one another, but start to slow down a bit to get us to her admitting her father just died and then Ryle’s admission of losing a patient. Then we move to the chairs where things are more serious and thoughtful and paced, more still, so that we could move into a more intimate space. I like to call editing the psychological choreography of a film, and this scene illustrates this very well in how complex and effective that dance can be.
7. As this is your fourth book-to-film adaptation, how does the existence of iconic source material impact your approach to elements of story and tone? Can you provide examples of how you navigated the balance between staying true to the source material and adapting it for the screen?
Is it really? Ha! I didn’t realize it’s my fourth. There is definitely an added pressure when doing a book-to-film adaptation because you’re up against book readers' imaginations, which can be limitless in possibilities. More likely than not, the book is also beloved by a large fan base so there is pressure to deliver to those fans' expectations. The advantage of book-to-film is that it’s a story that’s been tested and that you know resonates with an audience, so as filmmakers our job is to focus on what it was that resonated and why, because ultimately the material will have to be cut down.
My first step, if time allows, is to read the book. While I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary for the editor to have read the book of the film they are editing in order to cut a great film adaptation, and I’ve actually heard of some directors asking editors to not read the book so that they approach the film with no bias or preconceptions, I find it helpful. It’s a bit like watching dailies for the first time – I want to know what my first impressions are. I also like to look out for iconic scenes, images, or items in the books that stand out and should be included in the film because of how meaningful they most likely were to the readers – like the wooden heart in It End With Us, or the “I must, I must, I must increase my bust” scene from Are You There God? It’s Me Margaret. Books have the benefit and dexterity of going into great detail over hundreds of pages that films just don’t have either the time or ability to do, so including the more iconic imagery or visceral moments in the film is key as a way to honor the book. So I try to note these when I read the book. More likely than not, the screenwriter has worked these into the script, but I like knowing that they were from the book so that I don’t miss them in the edit. Or I will flag them to the director to see if they warrant consideration.
A lot of the consideration of what to keep in the story of the book is done in the writing of the screenplay, and much of the visual tone is established in the production design and cinematography. In editorial, we get these amazing puzzle pieces and get to figure out how to put them together in the best way we can to tell the best version of the story. That can include “rewriting” to some degree to either condense, explain more, or make the material work for a visual medium. We are establishing pacing, sound design, and music – that psychological choreography – which for a book adaptation needs careful consideration since we want to try to mirror the tone of the book as best we can. Imagine Are You There God? It’s Me Margaret cut with Miley Cyrus songs (no offense to Miley) and tricky visual effects that jump around in time – it could be fun, but it wouldn’t capture the feeling or the tone of the book!
That’s not to say you can’t take big, interesting swings at a film adaptation. Film offers really interesting ways to experience a story that books can not. The Performance was an adaptation of an Arthur Miller short story, which was expanded into a screenplay by writers Josh Salzberg and Shira Piven, and directed by Shira. It’s a historical drama that takes place in Europe in 1939. And we could have cut it like a straight historical drama – which we did for some of it. But Shira, who is an incredibly interesting and unique filmmaker, wanted to illuminate the material in a world that danced between this fictional story and the reality of the actual history of the time, so we weaved in archival footage from that time period and used footage from an 8mm camera – neither of which were in the writing of the short story, but really helped bring the story to life on screen and enhance the overall impact of the film.
There are always going to be differences in the film from the book – like I said, there isn’t time to include everything. So as an editor, at some point during the editorial process you have to let go of the book and watch the film as its own piece. Hopefully all of the prep work and editorial choices has created a solid adaptation that both honors the book and gives it a new cinematic landscape to exist in. I love a good book and I love a good film – so it’s a world I enjoy working in.
8. It Ends With Us features a moving score from composers Rob Simonsen and Duncan Blickenstaff as well. How did the music and sound design influence your editing choices, and how did you ensure that the score complemented the film’s emotional and narrative arcs?
Score is always integral in the momentum of any film. From the beginning of working on this film, Justin, Robb Sullivan and I felt that the film warranted a more orchestral, theme–based score to carry us through Lily’s life and story. It needed to be able to take us through the gamut of emotions – grief, love, romance, terror, despair – and we felt that the use of orchestral instruments allowed for the versatility that we needed.
That said, I am a firm believer that the picture edit should come before any music or score and that the edit should influence the music, not the other way around. It’s an easy mistake to put music over something and think that it’s working because the song is pulling you through emotionally. So I cut the scenes first and then see if the addition of score or music would elevate the scene in any way. If yes, then try it. And try different things! I like to go with my first instinct, but also try something completely out of the box that you may not expect. Even if that doesn’t work, it may lead you in an exciting direction. Oftentimes we don’t engage with the composer until we’re closer to locking picture, so editors work with temp score – or score that already exists from other movies. It can take hours and hours of trial and error to find the right tone and composition to suit the film, and more often than not, we’re pulling from multiple film scores to fill out our temp so it can be a bit of a smorgasbord. But it both gets us to a place that is working in the edit of the film as a whole and gives the composer a wonderful, and tested jumping off place when they do join the film.
I recently saw some viral video of the artist known as Prince performing on stage without music or vocals – all you hear are the sound effects of his movements. It’s very funny to watch. But I saw it and thought, this is what editors get when we get the footage from production, except as opposed to only hearing sound effects, we hear dialogue. The rest of the sounds, we fill in. Every stage of making a film is critical, and sound design is no exception. Without it, it would be an eerie, empty space of people just talking. I love working with sound teams, they do incredibly specific work to build out the auditory world of the film. It’s really cool. That said, even before we get onto the sound stage with our sound team, I like to work with as much background and sound effects as possible through my edit. That can be as basic as hearing birds outside, or traffic out the window, and as complicated as creating tension with more abstract base tones. My wonderful assistant editor, Wilbur DiTullio is a whiz at building out our temp sound design as we go through editorial. Wilbur and I both bring a library of sound effects and backgrounds to every job we work on. We work in tandem with one another – I will cut a scene and once we’re feeling confident in our rough cut, Wilbur will take it and add any background or sound effects needed. If either of us have any crazy ideas, we will pitch them to one another and try them. I find that it really helps with being able to watch scenes without being distracted by the absence of the sounds that our brain is unknowingly and constantly processing behind the action. We also tend to do screenings of the film before engaging with the sound team, so it’s really important to have our temp sound bed in the film so that whomever we are screening the film for can experience the film as fully as possible. On It Ends With Us, Robb and I were lucky to have multiple assistant editors on this film – Mark Perzley and Eric Fernandez as well were great at building out our temp sound design.
9. As a female editor who enjoys working with diverse women in the industry, how do you think your female identity influences your work? Are there any particular experiences or collaborations that stand out to you in this regard?
There is something unique and special about working with women in this industry. There is a shared language and experience that innately comes with walking through the world as a female, and being able to be in a room with other creative and artistic women is empowering, inspiring, and supportive. Working with Kelly Fremon Craig on Are You There God? It’s Me Margaret.was very special. We are both what I like to call intuitive perfectionists – we go with our guts but also search through every nook and cranny to find the right take or look or moment. I trusted her ambition and vision, and she trusted me with the work of editing. We tried and failed together, but we also knew when we hit it out of the park and really celebrated with each other. I remember presenting her with a cut of the “2 minutes in the closet” scene with the song “Son of a Preacher Man” under Philip Leroy beckoning Margaret to come with him, and Kelly screeching with delight and screaming “oh my god OONA!!! That’s it!”. And we both definitely cried every time Barabara (Rachel McAdams) steps out of the bathroom after Marageret gets her period and has one of the most nuanced acting moments I’ve ever seen. Every time, we teared up – and we didn’t feel embarrassed or silly for getting emotional, we felt seen and accomplished. It was a very symbiotic, safe, and supportive relationship and I think we both made each other better and the film better working with one another.
I love being a woman in this industry. It’s a muscle that this industry needs and I feel is starting to embrace, support, and seek out more and more. I feel lucky to be a part of the movement for developing and making not only female-driven films but films that appreciate the female perspective. It’s important for women in the industry and in our audiences to feel seen and heard and empowered, and it’s important for men to see women represented truthfully and with depth. I come with my own personal experiences that I undoubtedly infuse into my editorial work, especially for female characters and female-driven storylines. That can be as intimate as my own experiences as a mother, or as broad as my fantasy of being a kick-ass superhero. It’s not one thing.
10. What kinds of projects or stories are you interested in exploring next? How do you see your editing style evolving with future opportunities?
I’m really drawn to character-driven projects that really push the boundaries of genre and utilize the film medium in ways that enable an audience to experience the world with a slightly skewed lens. Films like Delicatessen, The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind, Promising Young Woman, The Favourite, The Royal Tenenbaums – all of these are really evocative and original in how they tell their stories and utilize the screen in such interesting ways. I’d love to have the opportunity to work on films like that. I think it would be such an exciting canvas to work with. And there are a lot of fantastic female directors out there right now making great stuff – Emerald Fennell, Sian Heder, Charlotte Wells, Sarah Polley, Greta Gerwig (just to name a few) – that I would love to collaborate with at some point.
Honestly, every film I work on I feel like my editing evolves because every film is its own breathing entity. There is 100% skill and experience that I bring with me to every job, but the artistry of editing is something that has to be discovered during each film which is what makes it so intensely creative and fun.
