There's been a lot of buzz regarding affordable 4K acquisition recently, and for good reason. How about affordable 6K? You may know Chinese manufacturer Kinefinity for its strangely familiar-looking family of cameras, but with features like simultaneous compressed and uncompressed RAW recording and very competitive pricing, it's a family with merits all its own. Our crew on the floor of NAB 2014 talked to Michel Juknat, a Kinefinity european distributor, discussing the ~$5K KineMINI 4K camera in depth and hitting upon the upcoming KineMAX 6K camera. Check out the video below -- plus some KineMINI footage from Michel himself.
Michel has also posted some great-looking footage using the very KiniMINI cameras Kinefinity has been sporting at its NAB booth -- shot in and around Vegas, of course! If you'd like any of the original footage used below, (or you just plain want to buy a Kinefinity camera) you can reach out to Michel at contact@kinefinity.tv.
Video is no longer available: www.youtube.com/watch?v=opnsA-arL0E
Preorders for the KineMINI are ongoing at HD Videoshop, which states: "Production will start in the second half of April, and the first batch will be shipped in early May 2014." Below are pricing charts for KineMINI bodies and options.
At this point, not many of us have had the opportunity to get our hands on a Kinefinity camera, but that may certainly change over the course of this year. Given the maelstrom of camera announcements made so far this week, how do you envision incorporating a camera like the KiniMINI -- or even the KineMAX -- into your arsenal? Be sure to keep following our NAB master post for the latest from Vegas, and let us know your thoughts in the comments below.
Links:
- Kinefinity -- Homepage
- Kinefinity.tv
- Michel Juknat Innovative Technologies -- YouTube
- HD Videoshop by Michel Juknat Innovative Technologies -- Contact Page
...
NFS's coverage of NAB 2014 is brought to you by My RØDE Reel and Limelite. Subscribe to the No Film School YouTube channel for the latest video updates direct from NAB, as well as filmmaker interviews, tutorials, and behind-the-scenes features.
Your Comment
51 Comments
So... $10K for 6K, is this a complete, ready to go package or just body?
April 9, 2014 at 3:52PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
They need a Ted Schilowitz
April 9, 2014 at 4:07PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Indeed!
April 9, 2014 at 4:37PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Lmao, Was just thinking that as I scrolled down and saw your post. If they had a US distributor I would take a closer look though what saw so far looks pretty darn good.
April 9, 2014 at 7:10PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Jesus. After all the camera options released at NAB - this one finally makes sense. Please, please, please take my god damn money!
April 9, 2014 at 4:24PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
awesome ,and looks like a RED.. q: does the 4k one have 16 stops of dr like the 6k?
April 9, 2014 at 4:25PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
13 stops according to the website but still! That and 100fps HD, and 4K and RAW... Seriously tempted by this :)
April 9, 2014 at 4:41PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
No, only the 6k one has 16 stops DR
April 9, 2014 at 7:59PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
What about ISO sensitivity?
April 10, 2014 at 6:33AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Also, FINALLY someone decided "how about we announce a camera and before we ask for peoples money we show them what the damn footage looks like" haha! :D
April 9, 2014 at 4:27PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
I'm actually a big fan of the images Kinefinity cameras make. The video above doesn't do it justice at all. Visit their website and download some footage. It is absolutely beautiful.
I really wish they get more support here in the states and coverage from blogs etc. I'm actually more interested in the Kinemini 4k than any other camera. I've been grading and messing around with Kinefinity footage every since it was first announce a few years back.
April 9, 2014 at 4:32PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
I'm liking this more than blackmagic. And it has an upgrade path.
April 9, 2014 at 4:39PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
its built like an actual professional camera as well, modular, logical. this should also have more than 3 ISO options.
April 10, 2014 at 3:52AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
This looks very promising.
April 9, 2014 at 5:20PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Dave Kendricken
Is this the official announced price of the kinemax?....thinking of buying max
April 9, 2014 at 5:24PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
No. That's the price for the 4k one.
April 9, 2014 at 8:04PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
@jason so they haven't announced the max official price yet?...waah it would hv broken my bank...am hoping it will be a little bit cheaper than 10k,you still hv to add matte box and batteries,external monitor too
April 9, 2014 at 10:19PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
No, they haven't yet. I guess they will announce the price for Maxx on the last day of NAB. I'm afraid it will be around 12 grand since they take it as flagship camera.
April 10, 2014 at 5:10AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Not impressed by that footage...
April 9, 2014 at 6:06PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Check out the Kinefinity website. I agree the footage in the post isn't doing the camera justice.
April 9, 2014 at 6:13PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Same footages that can be found on vimeo? tried navigating the website. Japanese
April 9, 2014 at 7:35PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
...Chinese*
April 9, 2014 at 7:43PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
No they have several footage that isn't on vimeo. Just right click and use google translate if you're using Google Chrome. The website that host the footage is pretty slow though. I'm currently downloading some of the ones I don't have right now.
April 9, 2014 at 8:03PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Man.... wonder what >10 year old self would've thought about this upon hearing the news :P
"Hey man; you lookin for 6k compressed AND uncompressed raw? Same time? How about $10k? Yeah? Cool."
I feel like we all say this every NAB; but dang. Crazy times :P
April 9, 2014 at 7:35PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Actually the footage is kinda neat, someone did homework on in-camera LUTs.
April 9, 2014 at 7:59PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
I was thinking the same thing. The asphalt shot and the shot of the neon building from the car... Great.
April 11, 2014 at 1:52PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Downloaded some DNGs from the KinerawS35. Fantastic dynamic range, recoverable highlights, great motion cadence, great color. Looking forward to the new cameras.
April 9, 2014 at 8:01PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Forget about the KR35, go for a Mini4K or Maxx.
April 9, 2014 at 8:19PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
For those who wanna download the original 4k file at vimeo, pls visit https://vimeo.com/91493490
April 9, 2014 at 8:02PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
I wonder how much they'd ask from someone to start their US distribution. Their best bet is to go through either a major existing online retailer or an accessory manufacturer without major tie-ins to a camera company. They'll need a traveling sales rep and a US based repair center. Mailing cameras from China or Europe won't be enough. A manufacturer's rep may do the job if he has industry wide connections.
.
PS. In the audio biz, there is/was a (Chicago based?) reseller/service center called Pacific Valve that shipped Chinese tube amps like Ming Da, Yaqin and Opera around the country. Now, there's a company called Grant Fidelity, which ships out of Airdrie, Alberta, Canada.
.
http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/
April 9, 2014 at 8:26PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
@vince...the English link.. www.kinefinity.com/?lang=en browse there and you will find the footage from kineS35 and the Mini
April 9, 2014 at 10:34PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
These guys are super promising. Color science could use a bit of work, but overall it's a great image. I think the one thing they need to work on is motion cadence, which seems to be a bit videoish like Sony. If they improve that aspect and get it anywhere near RED / Alexa / BMCC, I'd be very interested.
April 9, 2014 at 11:10PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
New cam talk - rumors have both Leica and Pentax coming out with a dMF hybrids that will record 4K video. It is probably the same 50 MP Sony sensor. Pentax is slated to be priced at ~ $10,000. Leica ... eh, more.
.
So, if or when Arri will have a dMF cinema camera, someone has beaten them to the punch, albeit in a different form.
April 10, 2014 at 1:13AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
More from Jihua Zheng from Kinefinity:
http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=24929
April 10, 2014 at 1:16AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
I must say these are sorely tempting ........ I'm actually looking at the Cion but the mini ..... Beautiful images
April 10, 2014 at 3:57AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Hopefully a rental house in L.A. will get one of these. The images really remind me of the old Viper cam that was used on Zodiac amongst other films
https://vimeo.com/88770398
April 10, 2014 at 10:13AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
These two cameras are very interesting. I'm not sure about the mini but the Kinemax has a feature they're calling 'sports mode' which claims to effectively reduce rolling shutter (since – as far as I can tell – their sensor's are not global shutter). I'd really like to see some footage with this feature enabled and disabled, for a comparison so we can see what difference sports mode makes.
And also, wether there is some kind of trade off in image quality, such as a drop in dynamic range.
If that's the case then it's still a pretty neat feature.
Loving the passion that I'm seeing from the Kinemax team.
April 10, 2014 at 12:20PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
KineMINI has the same sports mode.
April 10, 2014 at 2:20PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
ADC, the sports mode DID reduce jello effects. Go check it out, it's in a Chinese forum though.
http://www.filmaker.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=44253
April 10, 2014 at 6:38PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Wow, impressive. Has to be some trade off though. I wonder what that is.
Thanks
April 11, 2014 at 1:14PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
4K for $6 - awesome. No pro audio? Not so awesome.
April 10, 2014 at 1:47PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
When it comes to Pro audio, go get a Sound Devices recorder and use dual system.
April 11, 2014 at 1:41AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Actually I just tested a SD633 and that is AWESOME.
April 11, 2014 at 1:43AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Wow, gotta say... this is by far the most compelling option I've seen from NAB this year. I thought that demo footage was superb, although they would have helped themselves by using some nicer lenses. Some of them weren't that great.
But all in all, this one has piqued my interest much more than anything BMD, AJA or any of the others are bringing to the table.
April 10, 2014 at 2:20PM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Anyone knows why prices differs so drastically for EU and the rest of the world? I mean, prices listed on their .com site are so much nicer. Can I just order the camera from the site?
April 13, 2014 at 7:43AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
EU import duty taxes + people in EU have to make some money too. We have an office in Shanghai so I could of ordered one there and pick it up it would have saved me about 1000€. Call me stupid if you will but I think this camera is already decently priced and I do put value on the fact that there is a responsible dealer closer to me (EU). That's just me.
April 15, 2014 at 3:10AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Sorry for the spelling, keyboard plays tricks on me.
April 15, 2014 at 3:11AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Hi,
Just ordered the following;
1xBody (kinemount), 1xGrip, 1xHiSpeed, 1xWifi, 2xBattery, 1x EF electronic mount.
Michel (http://www.hdvideoshop.com) cleared a lot of questions for me so I suggest you contact him directly here are some of the answers I got:
I heard the old Mini has a 20fps out on the monitor?
It is true the old Mini had only 20fps in video output, that's the only reason we sold so few, but luckily this issue was fixed. It was caused by the slow CPU built in the old Mini, the new KineMINI has a processor that is 8 times faster than the old one. Thus choppy video output is no more.
Is the HDMI out 720p?
yes, but SDI Out is 720p/1080p
Is the SD signal 8 bit 10bit (clean) could I record it on a external recored like a Atomos Blade?
Unfortunately SDI Out can not be used for external recording. If this is about having Prores, there will be a firmware update of the software KineSTATION which will allow to transcode the footage from KineMINI into Prores444.
If I choose the kine mount can that mount then hold different kind of mounts (EF - with aperture control, Sony E mount if they make one and so on)?
yes, KineMOUNT is designed to fit all Lens Adapters provided by Kinefinity (i.e. active EF mount with aperture control)
other lens mounts are:
- Nikon F
- PL
- OCT-19
- B4
- Micro Four Thirds (will ship in a few months)
If I choose the EF mount (with aperture control) then I am stuck with EF and if I want a different mount I need to send the camera back to you guys?
basically yes, if you consider using other lenses i.e. PL mount or Nikon I would strongly recommend you choose the KineMOUNT and buy the Active EF Mount now. The cost may be a little higher for now but still much less than the cost of shipping the camera back and forth plus the cost of the upgrade, plus the lens adapters. Actually if you consider the options you'll receive with the exchangeable lens mount it's not that expensive. Most camera users have to switch camera if they want to use different lens mounts, or, if they exist, the lens adapters are really expensive.
Can I delete clips in camera and format in camera?
Yes you can do both.
Does the camera have sleep mode?
currently no, but it will be implemented with a future firmware update. The Fan shuts down during recording so you don't record fan noise. Currently the booting time is about 45 seconds
Does the camera have Audiometers?
No. This camera is not strong in any audio settings, it's meant to be used with an external audio recorder.
Does the camera have headphone out and I control the volume?
yes there is Audio Out, but again it should be used with an external audio recorder.
Can I record 96fps at 4K with 4K and HiSpeed Option?
currently no. for 4K the max framerate is 30fps, for 2K it's 96fps and 1080p it's 100fps
Is the audio recorder stereo or still in mono?
Mono
Can I upgrade to Wifi option later down the road?
yes, but the camera needs to be shipped back.
Can the camera record 4K CineformRAW in camera and what is the max fps without the HiSpeed option 60fps or 96fps?
It can record Cineform and Cinema DNG in 4K in-camera. Without highspeed option the max. frame rate is 50fps@2K, 60@1080p and 96 and 100fps is only with the option. Sorry on the website the "*" was missing, I updated it
Sorry for the monster post but thought you guys might be interested.
April 14, 2014 at 7:14AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
Just talked with Zhang Cheng from Kinefinity and here are some more details:
They have audio meters in the camera in the newest firmware.
The audio connection is MONO and thus will always be mono even if the camera makes two tracks the actual connection is mono. They might change that for next model and users might be able to upgrade but I guess you'll have to send the body back.
They are working on IS for EF lenses.
They have not planned fro E type mount but if people keep asking for it they might consider it, few people have asked. I'd like one so I could use a speed booster. They have focused their effort on EF and IS on EF right now.
The reason I care about audio is because CineformRAW cuts really nice in FCPX and with prices of SSDs going down I wouldn't mind using this for A cam in interviews for HD/720p delivery cropping camera angles from 4K (didn't order the 4K option yet though). Most of the interviews I've been doing work great with JuicedLink into 5DIII and they save time in post. Just did a company video with more than 20 interviews and it helps. For run & gun I was considering using iRig Pre with and AudioTechnica shotgun mic.
I do realise that RAW is a bit too much for interview corporate video stuff but if I don't make things a bit more difficult from time to time I guess I'd never learn new stuff :).
Hope all this info has been helpful and thank you for a great site and NAB coverage.
April 15, 2014 at 3:02AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
KineMAX 6K price $13000
http://imgur.com/mCbAU9h
April 15, 2014 at 5:34AM, Edited September 4, 8:56AM
I have made soem monitoring tables for the Kine- cameras to emulate the gray scale curves of ARRI Log-C, Sony S-Log(1), S-Log2, S-Log3, and Canon CLOG as well as revised Kodak Cineon Film Log, those tables are look groups named, KineLOGC, KineLOGS1, KineLOGS2, KineLOGS3, KineLOGN and KineLOGF, you can see the test video U1 at,
http://vimeo.com/105938940
and
http://youtu.be/5ycLVMH0wI4
If you want the LK5 and cube files I have them in some zip files and can email them to you for testing, my email is: tempnulbox (at) yahoo (dot) com the cube files not starting with Kine are from the internet you need to google to get those.
September 26, 2014 at 4:46PM