August 22, 2014

'Inside the Edit' is the Creative Editing Course We've All Been Waiting For

A few months ago, we shared an excellent short animation that detailed the ins and outs of what exactly an experienced editor does. Although we only briefly mentioned it at the time, that video was an advertisement for Inside the Edit, a soon-to-be-released online creative editing course. Yesterday marked the official release of Inside the Edit, and we here at No Film School couldn't be more excited about the tremendous potential value that this course offers to aspiring editors wishing to break into the industry. I recently had the opportunity to chat with Paddy Bird, the founder of Inside the Edit, about what sets this course apart from any other editing course on the market today.

First up, for those of you that missed the short Inside the Edit promo that took the online filmmaking community by storm a few months back, here it is:

Now let's get to the interview with Paddy! I'll also embed all of their example tutorials and footage so that you can get an even better sense of what Inside the Edit is all about.

NFS: First of all, Paddy, tell our audience a little bit about who you are, what you do, and what your background is in regards to filmmaking. How did you become interested in editing as a profession, and what steps did you take once that you had decided that was what you wanted to do?

PB: I’ve been a documentary and entertainment television editor for around 16 years. I’ve cut dozens of political docs, science docs, historical docs as well as many of the big format entertainment and reality shows for UK and US TV. I’ve worked for the BBC, ITV (UK), Channel 4 (UK) Discovery, National Geographic, The Smithsonian Channel, ABC and NBC.

I actually fell into editing by mistake. I was working in a small production company in the late 1990s producing corporate films. There were only three of us on the team and we all took turns to shoot, direct, sound operate, edit, and present. We didn’t really know what we were doing but we were all very passionate. My two colleagues both wanted to be directors and were not that interested in editing, so I was forced into the cutting room out of necessity.

It only took a few days to get the editing bug. I got obsessed with it very quickly and actually locked myself away in the company Avid suite for about six months without going anywhere. I loved the idea of thousands of creative possibilities from any one set of rushes as well as the power of narrative construction.

Over a couple of years we produced dozens of short films and corporate videos which was a fantastic training ground for all of us. I would edit anything: low-budget music videos, feature films, charity films and commercials. I offered to cut actors' showreels for a bottle of wine and a pizza through the night! I just knew I needed to get as many editing hours under my belt as possible.

I was very lucky that a friend of mine started working at a post production agency and she gave me a shot at working on short packages for daytime TV shows. Once I had a few credits on my CV I slowly built up a client list over a few years. I moved into reality TV around the millennium as that genre exploded around the world, but the most difficult genre to get into was documentary. That took quite a few years.

By the time I started Inside The Edit a decade and a half later I estimated that I’d clocked up over 40,000 hours in the cutting room.

NFS: What is Inside the Edit, and who is it for?

PB: Inside The Edit is the world’s first truly creative editing course. It’s aimed at anyone who is working or wanting to work in primetime level documentaries or entertainment television. From teenagers studying media in college to TV directors who want to expand their skills. There’s simply nothing out there anywhere near as detailed as what we’ve created. Edit training courses are 95% technical and 5% creative. It seemed to me that the editing being taught in various training books, media degrees and film schools was all based around getting you to learn as much of a software interface as possible while taking you through only very basic editing theory. I took a very long and hard look at what the training landscape was like over the last few years, I talked to a lot of editing friends and attacked the problem from several different angles. I realised that there were several barriers to becoming an editor and why on average it took between 5 to 10 years to master it.

Firstly, most television editors learn in isolation. They are self-taught artisans who figure out a large percentage of their craft by themselves. It’s a truly bizarre fact. We teach ourselves by analyzing and making tons of mistakes. There is no one to tell us any of the high level theory that we need as a pro editor. This made me realize that it really doesn’t need to be this long because as far as I had researched, no one had ever really poured a decade and a half of high level experience out into a course, to essentially compress that decade of self teaching.

Secondly, I had been teaching FCP and Avid courses for a couple of years and the most often asked question I got at the end of each course was, “What do I do now? How do I get a job as an editor?” Broadcasters and production companies are only interested in two things: your CV and your showreel. What have you worked on. Students would always ask me how they could build a showreel and the answer was unfortunately that it’s next to impossible. No production company or broadcaster is going to let you loose on a couple of hundreds grand worth of footage. Why would they take that chance? So the second big barrier was getting your hands on raw uncut rushes to practice on. In all of the other training courses you get a bare minimum of rushes to practice on. Certainly nothing that you could craft into any kind of long form narrative.

It’s another bizarre fact that no company in the history of television or film has ever sold raw uncut rushes before. So, we went out and shot a one hour primetime level documentary over a two-year period with around 35 hours of rushes.

A generation ago you were an assistant and you sat behind an editor for several years and watched them. They would talk you through why they were doing this or that. Unfortunately those days are over.

For about 18 months around 2006/2007 I took a break from editing and starting teaching FCP and Avid at Soho Editors, I noticed that the course materials for all of the standard courses that were taught were all technical with only a very small amount of basic editing theory. There certainly wasn’t or isn’t now, any of the high-end creative theory that you need to become a top-level editor being taught. I spent a very long time researching what all the books, other courses, film schools were teaching and realised that no one was really teaching the thousands of creative decisions and different mindsets you needed at every single stage of the editing process.

NFS: There are a ton of ways for people to learn the art and technicality of editing these days, whether it’s through film school, seminars, books, or online videos. What sets Inside the Edit apart from every other way to learn about editing? Obviously the course is a bit pricey compared to some of the other options. What value does the course provide, and how does that value compare to the cost?

PB: There are a ton of ways to learn the technical side of editing, but after three years of searching we have yet to find a primetime level creative course. There are a few courses out there that do teach a bit of creative theory but unfortunately they’re based around cutting low-end corporate videos and things like that. We haven’t found anyone or anything who is at the highest level of editing who is teaching the hundreds of different concepts and techniques that you need to know as a pro editor. We haven’t found anyone who allows students to practice on a full set of uncut broadcast level rushes. And we have’t found anywhere that imparts all of complexities of what directors, producers and execs expect from you at every single stage of the process.

img-paddy-bird"We are giving our students a huge amount of theory that is just simply not available anywhere else, not even at film school. They're getting to practice for the first time on a hundred grand's worth of documentary footage. We're training your mind so that you are actually employable after a years study. That's what sets us apart from anyone else."

I’ll give you a small example. Actuality style shooting is one of the most popular genres in broadcast. It fills up everything from high brow observational documentaries to entertainment and reality TV. Who is teaching how to cut this? I did it for years and I’ve never seen any book, manual or course on the laws and structure of a genre that takes up a huge percentage of worldwide broadcast output. How do you structure a retrospective or prospective observational scene? How do you create jeopardy in a scene when it wasn’t there in the rushes?

It’s amazing how much people are willing to spend on the technical side of filmmaking. Apple Macs costs thousands, your 5D kit will cost you thousands. The industry is heavily weighted towards the technical. I remember talking to a senior TV exec friend of mine about young people entering the industry and making short films and stuff. He said a very interesting thing to me, that most young people want to shoot on 4K and the grading must be perfect. We have a ton of very talented people who do all that, what we are in very short supply of within the industry is people who can tell stories to a high level.

So we are giving our students a huge amount of theory that is just simply not available anywhere else, not even at film school, getting to practice for the first time on a $100K's worth of documentary footage and training your mind so that you are actually employable after a years study sets us apart from anyone else. You can make a very nice living as an editor, but it will take you many, many years of trial and error and a lot of luck on top. We want to compress that decade down to just one year.

NFS: Inside the Edit is being marketed as an entirely creative editing course that doesn’t teach the basics or the complexities of any NLE. With that said, you’re obviously cutting on Avid for the tutorials. Will somebody using Premiere Pro, Final Cut, or any other software have a difficult time translating the techniques that you’re teaching into their respective NLEs? How do you ensure that the course remains accessible to everybody regardless of what software they’re using? Will somebody proficient in Avid have an easier time with the course material than somebody who isn’t familiar with the software?

PB: It’s strange, but I worked out that probably 95% of my cutting day is spent using 9 buttons and some trimming. Most of these buttons are either the same or very similar on all three of the major NLE systems. All three are all excellent and I’ve used all of them. But a timeline is a timeline. In long form documentary and entertainment television you're using a couple of video layers and about eight to ten audio layers. They all appear as blocks on the timeline in the same way so the theory we teach can be practiced on any system. We pay zero attention to anything technical, there are many companies out there who do that very well, but that is not us.

NFS: Since the course comes with a hard drive packed with documentary footage, is it safe to assume that Inside the Edit is a documentary editing course? Should people who are looking to build a career in narrative fiction editing take this course?

PB: There’s a fantastic quote by the legendary Thelma Schoonmaker, “Because I was trained in documentaries originally and that's what happens in a documentary. You're given the whole lump of wonderful footage and you have to figure out a way to make it into a story, into a structure and so, that prepared me beautifully for doing improvisational cutting. I love it."

Learning how to construct and craft a narrative or build an action sequence as quickly as possible by training your mind how to see that form and logic when watching raw rushes is what we do in television. There is a very strong path from television into drama.

https://vimeo.com/87350744

NFS: Is there any pre-requisite knowledge that people will need in order to get the most out of Inside the Edit? Should someone thinking about purchasing the course already be a proficient editor, or at least proficient in editing software?

PB: We say that you need a basic grasp of your NLE system. If you know how to ingest the footage, mark up clips, edit them down onto the timeline, trim and move the clips around then you're ready.

NFS: Is there anything else that you would like to share with the No Film School community about Inside the Edit?

PB: We have so much planned for Inside The Edit. Over the next few months, we will be adding more original content as well as regular features teaching our students how to be the best editor possible. We have a really exciting year ahead planned!

You can currently purchase the course with a 25% discount available for 2 weeks only until the 3rd September.

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Inside the Edit is now live and fully operational. If you're interested in the course, or if you have any questions, head on over to the Inside the Edit website for more information.

Link: Inside the Edit

Your Comment

95 Comments

really nice article , do u suggest using core video studio ? That one is much easier

August 22, 2014 at 6:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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It's very nice idea they've made but man...3 000 £ for a year ?!! What were they thinking about ? Shane Hurlburt is an ASC Cinematographer and his program Shane's Inner Circle is 8 $ per month ! He has more credibility in his line of field than these guy in editing, I mean, they're not ACE editors, they are little tv editors, 3 000 £ is way more too expensive, it won't work...Sorry to say that.

August 22, 2014 at 7:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Jonathan

I agree with you man... too much expensive

August 22, 2014 at 9:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Alejandro

Checked it out and $8/month is a steal!

August 22, 2014 at 9:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael Hawk

I second Jonathan on this.

These are not "online prices", and the price don't fit the market, and as good as it can be this course, it is really out of market.

August 22, 2014 at 7:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Jean Di Lorenzo

Too expensive. Hellz no.

August 22, 2014 at 8:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rich

I'm sure this course is very good, expensive yes but if it is as good as they say it is perhaps it's worth it if you want to make a career out of editing but...at the end of it you will still be at the back of the queue for work. You will still have to convince an employer that you have the experience to do the job. Can you really compress 15 years worth of experience into a one year course? I seriously doubt it.

August 22, 2014 at 8:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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£3000 for one year? Is this a joke? The only people who could afford this kind of online eduction would already be working for a while. Hell, I'm working full time, and I still can't afford it. Seriously, you could buy a new Mac Pro, and still have money left over. Or you could fund your own film, and learn so much more yourself.

I'm really all for learning new stuff, and I would have loved to buy it, but the price isn't even once off, its only for a year. And then you still have to subscribe after. Who does that?

August 22, 2014 at 8:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Matt

I suppose the market is for people who are also considering film school. The price is actually not bad when you look at it that way. I think they should probably consider partnering with a school.

August 22, 2014 at 3:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mike K

'Inside the Edit' is the Creative Editing Course We've All Been Waiting For.....????? For that price nobody is waiting for it....lmao

August 22, 2014 at 8:59AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Kendrick

+1

August 22, 2014 at 2:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rich

Cheaper "hands on" courses can be found in most cities. I liked the idea for $400 but not $4000.

August 22, 2014 at 9:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael Hawk

Great course material and content but I can find alternatives for much less money. Lynda.com for example has many many courses for a fraction of the cost.I would almost go so far to say that the pricing strategy is almost alienating it's target audience (in disbelief). $400 yes, $4000 no. :-/

August 22, 2014 at 9:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Darren

Those lynda.com courses might be ok in order to learn where the buttons are but thats where it stops. Im not sure you can compare this course to them at all, as they want you to forget which NLE you are using and get down to editing a good story. Learning a professional workflow, storytelling, rhythm and other creative choices etc... all with professionally shot material isnt easy to come by, especially when alot of film schools and courses focus too much on the technical side and forget one of the most important parts, storytelling. I agree with everyones shock at the price though, id be open to paying a fair bit for something like this but this is alot. I think its that hefty monthly few after that bugs me the most... for now its back to plugging away at the smaller jobs and making my own content to learn more....

August 22, 2014 at 10:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dinges

That's not true about Lynda.com. While the majority of their courses are highly technical, there are several that get into the professional workflow and creative storytelling aspects. A brief look through their courses and I found "Foundations of Video: The Art of Editing", and the courses "Commercial Editing Techniques" and "Documentary Editing Techniques" seem to focus on the separate creative styles of editing for the end product.

August 26, 2014 at 11:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Lathan

If they only sell a 100 courses they make 300.000, well someone is trying to get rich, very sad, sounds interesting, but they are too greedy. Material was recorded once and is sold again and again without any further effort. On there website they follow the ... you payed Canon a lot of money for your camera, so pay us a lot of money, too. I do´t get it. Canon makes the camera once, and another one for the next customer. They recorded it, no further cost (a little bit of website setup, alright). 400 Euros would be fair. I don´t need rights to their raw material (which is often strangely framed).

August 22, 2014 at 9:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ben

I'd have to agree with everyone's assessment of a disproportionate price. That kind of price is really out of market for the online tutorial segment, and ESPECIALLY the nofilmschool demographic. So no, I don't think this is the one we've been waiting for. Content seems great from the videos, but for $4000 you could really build your own powerful editing rig or purchase an A and B camera. So for someone trying to "break in" paying this much would do more harm than good in terms of setting you back professionally. Experience, track record, networking, etc. are key elements of gaining traction in this industry, and those cannot be gained from a $4000 online course.

August 22, 2014 at 9:29AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Alex

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's nearly $5000 US dollars? I'm all for education and training, and I find it to be a really important investment worth spending money on, but that is an absurd price.

The course sounds valuable, but I have a tough time imagining the information is unique and good enough to justify that, especially from a return-on-investment standpoint.

August 22, 2014 at 9:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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for a couple grand more i got my masters in Mechanical engineering (granted it was funded).

are there any other resources that teach a similar thing though? because the content of what they are trying to do is great. just not the price...

August 22, 2014 at 3:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Kevin

Yeah it's expensive.... But it's way cheaper than my film school experience, and it's completely worthless, theory-less, "here, click this button," lack of true editing education. I learned so much more about editing by playing with the software and analyzing movies than I ever did in film school. I would've given anything for this type of training back in the day!

August 22, 2014 at 9:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I went quickly from being very excited to my jaw falling open when I saw the price. If you're trying to break into editing and by some stroke of fortune are already rich, I'm sure this course is a great deal. As a part-time admin assistant, part-time student, with more stars in my eyes than dollars in my pocket, I will sadly have to move along.

August 22, 2014 at 9:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Madeline

I agree with all above. To me it seems like you are spending your money to cover their production costs. Better to spend the money on editing and production equipment, and search youtube and vimeo for any related training/theory content, along with cinearchive.org. Start watching everything analytically. Then go out and make your own content to cut.

August 22, 2014 at 9:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Réjean

Agree with all of the above. Sounds tremendous. Would love to utilize. Absolutely no way I could afford or be willing to pay anywhere near this amount of money.

August 22, 2014 at 10:32AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dave

After seeing Vincent Laforet's Directing Motion and Shane Hurlbut's Illumination Masterclass prices I assumed this would be about the same, but really 10x more?! I can afford this but would never pay it. You can get 13 years of Lynda.com for this price and learn editing and everything else you can do on a computer. There are simply too many editing resources online for free or very cheap for this to be worth it.

August 22, 2014 at 10:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Birdman

I think I'm the target audience they're shooting for with this course. I'm self-taught, been in the business for 3+ years as a full-time director/editor. I've learned enough to know how very little I know. And I want to get better, learn some theory, keep pushing my limits. Heck, I'm even making decent enough money to make this feasible. Not comfortable, but feasible.

And even then, there's just no way I'm plunking down the cash for this. Even if it's justifiable from their end – they know the cost that went into making this, and the relative quality and value of what they're selling – it's just so far beyond any other online training (that I've looked at, anyway) that it's a nonstarter in my mind.

tl;dr: I think I'm exactly who they're targeting with this course, I LOVE the idea of it, but there's no way I can justify that kind of cost in my head.

August 22, 2014 at 11:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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David

The price is high yes, but weighing that against a single one of the courses I took for four months in school, that was created in less time than that, and the skills, concepts, and theory that came out of them is pretty remarkable. I agree with many of the above that I would love to be a part of this seemingly amazing learning experience, but cannot afford it. However, the price is not ludicrous because of what it is, I just can't afford it. These people spent 3 years creating this course, which has an entire documentary film inside of it, plus an insane amount of direction. Plus it won't leave you in debt for student loans...

August 22, 2014 at 11:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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John

Looks fantastic, but 3,000 Euros?

August 22, 2014 at 11:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Vlad

No, £3000 (pounds!). Even better.

August 22, 2014 at 12:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rodrigo Molinsky

It's just priced so far our of the norm I can't see many people considering this a worthwhile investment. Yes it's more advanced than the tutorials on Lynda, but I think most of the folks they're targeting just won't have this level of disposable income (especially w/ the US exchange rate) to spend on what boils down to a series of online tutorials and some copyright free assets.

August 22, 2014 at 11:59AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dude PB... 3k for editing really??????????
There are online film schools and classes please check it out how people are teaching there....
Lynda.com, udemy, lightfilmschool and if you Google there are many more... and they all are cheaper combined than your price.

I wish you good luck.

August 22, 2014 at 12:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Aurelien Brentraus

I wouldn't pay for it, although I couldn't agree more with the philosophy. When people ask me about learning how to edit but the NLE's look complicated and difficult, my response is, "Razor blade tool". If you know where that is then your fine. Before NLE's editors did their job by cutting film and splicing it together, thats 95% of the job, we just do it digitally now.

August 22, 2014 at 12:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Adam

The razor blade tool?
I mean, you can use it here and there, but it is certainly not something an editor uses all the time.
Setting in- and out- points, moving the clip to the timeline, then maybe trimming the clip back and front - these are the tools you need most.
If the razor blade tool is the one that you use most, you're doing something wrong...

August 28, 2014 at 6:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Heiko

Somehow you missed his point entirely.

August 29, 2014 at 1:31AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tyler

Looks like a very thorough course and may be great for those who wish to be documentary Avid Editors in the U.K. So much of the terminology I'm hearing is completely regional and wouldn't be used in a typical Hollywood post setting. Even here in LA and I'm sure in other busy places in the US like NYC there is specific terminology used for the type of show your cutting. If someone came in my bay and asked if I'd starting painting with the sync-pulls they better have a British accent. Narrative editing has different terminology than TV doc's etc. So it may be a silly course for someone wanting to be a feature film Editor for the studios here in the US regardless of the price.

For the record, before NLE's, in my first film editing class back in the 80's, it was all creative, it took an hour to show someone how to use a flatbed or Moviola, the rest was all creative and we got to cut actual scenes including a fight scene from Gunsmoke with James Arness and John Carridine. So the comment about "never in the hist of..." is again, probably regional to the UK and not the rest of the world.

August 22, 2014 at 12:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Lance Bachelder

The material they provide is not shot by an experienced Dok Cinematographer, framing is often wrong (looking wrong direction on interviews, guys, thats first year film school), it is shot on a DSLR, so shooting was not too expensive. Ok, they travelled a lot, but well I don´t want to pay for that, I can practise with material shot in one town.

August 22, 2014 at 12:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mike

The funny thing I thought it was Paul Thomas Anderson the first time I glimpse the picture in the top of the article. Having PTA, a director who left film school at the 2nd day, and a £3000 web course in the same page would be funny.

And it £3000 from £4000, so it could be worst.

August 22, 2014 at 12:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rodrigo Molinsky

"...took the online filmmaking community by storm..." Really? I guess I'm out of touch. It's just an info graphic no? I wish them the best of the luck. I don't know anyone that WILL afford those prices. I think the online filmmaking space is changing (as with everything else). There is so much available content for learning by pros. I'm not saying editing Britain's Sexiest isn't a feather for your cap... Just if you look at what's being published these days it's a very competitive internet space.

August 22, 2014 at 1:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Garrett Cox

I am wealthy and £3000 is a ridiculous price for an online course. But maybe I'll bite before they 'run out of stock' you know?

August 22, 2014 at 3:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Salvador

my masters degree in mechanical engineering cost about this much...granted it was funded but still...

love the content though, does anyone know of any resources that have a focus on editing like this?

August 22, 2014 at 3:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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kevin

I second that: the most interesting thing is about concepts and how to think as an editor.
If there's any other sources around that can give me some glimpses about those matters?

August 22, 2014 at 4:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marco

Maybe some good books? At this point I guess a good, solid theory could exists in a good book as well, the only thing is to find "the" good one. In a Blink of an Eye was already a great reading for myself, now I'm wondering if there's something else/more specific about the art of editing, choices, and so forth.
What about these books?
Amazon.com: The Technique of Film and Video Editing: History, Theory, and Practice (9780240813974): Ken Dancyger: http://amzn.com/0240813979
Film Editing: History, Theory and Practice: Looking at the Invisible: Don Fairservice: 9780719057779: http://amzn.com/0719057779
On Film Editing: An Introduction to the Art of Film Construction (9780240517384): Edward Dmytryk: Books - http://amzn.com/0240517385
The Conversations: Walter Murch and the Art of Editing Film: Michael Ondaatje: 9780375709821: http://amzn.com/0375709827
Technique of Film Editing, Reissue of 2nd Edition (9780240521855): Karel Reisz, Gavin Millar: Books - http://amzn.com/0240521854
Film Editing: History, Theory and Practice: Looking at the Invisible: Don Fairservice: 9780719057779: http://amzn.com/0719057779

August 22, 2014 at 6:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marco

Anyone can cut together a film now. FILM editing is a lost art. We're all now video editors. However in order to find the soul of a picture you still need someone that has the talent for editing. It's really more of a hardwired mindset than something that can be taught. Really good editors think beyond the actual picture and can see the big picture, including the sound and music and all of the other elements that make up what is a great movie.

But today, most movies are utter soulless product.

August 22, 2014 at 4:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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neil

YES

August 22, 2014 at 6:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rich

Saying it can't be taught is utter BS, damn near anything can be taught. Nobody was born as an editor, nor were they born particularly apt to it. The "hardwired" or "talent" ideas drive me nuts because even the best people in any field had to learn how to be better than the rest. While some may have an affinity towards certain types of work, they became the best by gaining experience, building taste, practicing with their tools, and having passion. While I agree that "Really good editors think beyond the actual picture and can see the big picture" they are able to do that only because they have put thousands of hours into learning and mastering their craft. Maybe you should give this video another look, https://vimeo.com/84022735

August 26, 2014 at 12:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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You are right, all good editors (or camera operators, whatever) are good because they had thousands of hours of training - but they also need a certain amount of talent for the job!

If you don't have the talent for being an editor, even thousands of hours of experience won't make you a good editor!

August 28, 2014 at 6:37PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Heiko

I am very excited because I believe it is true that this is what we have all been waiting for, except not as you may expect.

We have all been waiting for a great case study to round out the various on-line tutorial business models that we can all learn from, and this is it!

On one extreme we have Andrew Kramer, who for years makes tutorials for free just because he loves doing it and sincerely enjoys helping others, and has managed to make (what I believe) is a very comfortable living for him and his team.

In the middle we have the Larry Jordan's who do a lot of face-to-face hands on training (which isn't always cheap) but taking into consideration his webinars, etc, I would say is priced in the middle. He is also doing quite well for himself.

Now, thank goodness for "Inside the Edit" we have the other extreme where we have creators who sell us on their tens of thousands of hours of expertise and their solid industry reputation, and then charge us an arm and a leg to access that information.

So while I won't be using "Inside the Edit" services I do wish them the best of luck and look forward to learning from their success .... or their failure.

August 22, 2014 at 9:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Jakartaguy

I'm going to wait until someone makes a torrent for this.

August 22, 2014 at 10:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Nick

Hahh. Yup. I'll wait for the PirateBay version.

August 23, 2014 at 8:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rich

lol. That would entail someone actually paying for it ;)

August 23, 2014 at 11:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael Hawk

Most TV that would be classified as "actuality" in the USA is phony semi-scripted garbarge full of gimick editing. And the only people who throw around terms like "actuality" are the worst sort of dumbass development execs and producers. I would not want to learn from these folks. But they do get paid, I suppose. I learned the most from editing sports and sports promos, and learning from some greats.

This is a book full of practical knowledge that Is the best I've found. Don't know the author personally or anything. http://www.amazon.com/Between-Scenes-Director-Writer-Transitions/dp/1615...

August 23, 2014 at 12:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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claude r

I did a double-take at that price, and thought for certain it was a typo, with an extra zero! £3000! Ridiculous.

August 23, 2014 at 5:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Hey just do what this guy did start at the bottom and work up and network.
If you respect your craft give it the time and discipline it deserves.Essentially it's flagged as a way to fast track young editors. I have never heard such tosh.As a former editor turned director in the UK my advice is this: take your time respect your craft do the time don't rush it.£3,000 he's having a laugh!!!

August 23, 2014 at 5:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gemag

Pricing is crazy - getting close to brick and mortar film school. Please, divide price at least by 10 and you will make 20 times more.

August 23, 2014 at 6:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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a

I also think that by making the course much (like 10x) cheaper they would get so many more students, that in the end they would earn more.
I wonder what numbers they are counting on in their business plan...

Online course, compared to a regular classroom, where you can fit only a few students, has no physical limitation in number of participants and thus should be substantially cheaper.

How much would this course cost if taught in a classroom for, let's say, 20 students?

August 26, 2014 at 8:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Pete

Soo...with everybody (who buys the course) cutting on the same footage, won't you get 20 versions of the same story? And if you try to build a show reel from this, won't that mark you as just another editor?

August 23, 2014 at 9:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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David Owensby

No, it would mark you as "total beginner, do not hire under any circumstances!"

August 28, 2014 at 6:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Heiko

Obviously they didn't learned nothing about Steve Jobs' concept of App Store, iTunes Music Store and iTunes iBooks store. Jobs said in one interview that the idea about selling one DATA COPY (you don't even need to buy a blank CD) of anything at a high price is obsolete. You need to lower the price and sell it to more people and you'll end up earning much, much more money. And IMHO Jobs did success on making money that way.

August 23, 2014 at 10:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Hi Leo, you obviously no very little about marketing, Jobs was talking about a horizontal market ie. mass market. This product is aimed at a vertical market ie. specialist. This package will never be mass market like Apple products.

August 24, 2014 at 4:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I'm in for 300£. Keep your HD + Raw material and send low fi by wetransfer.

August 24, 2014 at 2:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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samuele

August 24, 2014 at 3:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Not Applicable

August 24, 2014 at 3:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Not Applicable

Let them fail, they will lower prices if NO ONE is buying. And Yeah keep your High Res material, and make ProResProxy available for download! 300 Euros is fair, the rest is greed.

August 24, 2014 at 5:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mike

That's an interesting statement.
On what is it based, other than your own wallet?
Ever did Research & Development or operated your own business?
I also think it is expensive, but thinking everything above $300,- is pure profit and greed is silly.

August 25, 2014 at 5:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Wouter

Seriously? More than 300 for an recorded online course? No personal guidance, no questions? There is no effort except recoding it ONCE. If you sell like 300 units for 300 pound, thats 90 000 pounds. If an tutorial is between 45 an 5 minutes long (source their site), and its 81 tutorials at an average of, lets say .... 25 minutes, every minute is about 45 euros. deduct half of the price for raw material (although cheap dslr stuff, easy produced for 45.000) you get lets say 22 a minute. lets consider each tutorial takes 4 times the actual screen tile to produce. And if you do your math, you will end up at about 2640,- pound for a workday. I gets even more if you pay 3000,- pound, he will make, well 26,400 for each day of recording, thats what I call greedy (sand think about selling 400 or 500 copies).
So better think before calling someone silly ;-)))))

August 25, 2014 at 11:32AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mike

I agree the price is high. Its also fair to say you wouldn't pay more than 300 bucks. but to call someone greedy is pretty short sighted. i wont even talk about your assumed profit projection you did...failing to take into account website maintenance and other costs.

when you sell something, you sell it for the cost the market can withstand. If its too high, you lower accordingly. 3000 is too high, they will lower accordingly. but to call them greedy shows a lack of business understanding. At the end of the day, you have to make money. Levy this cost against what it would cost you to get the equivalent information elsewhere...not against what you think a fair profit might be

August 25, 2014 at 2:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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kevin

It's pure greed.

August 25, 2014 at 4:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Razor

and I suppose any penny you make more than what you absolutely need to survive as well is pure greed?

August 25, 2014 at 5:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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kevin

And you should buy the black box, if it does not meet your expectations, well the money is gone. No trial, nothing. Wonder why?
And it is greed, they could try to show us what the costs were (an even exaggerate a bit). But their argument is, that if you pay 4.000 for a camera, you can pay them 4.000, too. So ... to pick your argument, raising your rent to ridiculous level, just because there is no law against it, is not greedy? Really? In the interview he talks about teaching people something, but how about ruling out 99%? No ethics, sorry, its like selling a bottle of water, in a desert, to a almost dying man, for everything he has. Well, he survived, and you helped him, no you were not greedy, right?

August 25, 2014 at 6:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mike

I was an accountant for almost a decade-- trust me, "greed" isn't the right word to use. Maybe "overly ambitious" or "not understanding your customers/market," but if 99% of the people on here think the price is way out of whack, then it's likely they didn't do enough research. Maybe it really is worth $6,000-- still, they'd need a much better website and more than 5 of their friends saying that the product is amazing.

But instead of complaining, I'd like to see them come up with a more comprehensive marketing plan and a new pricing strategy. I have a feeling they are on to something, but to make it work they probably need a more adaptive/creative way to charge for it. Adobe essentially gives you $5,000 worth of software for (in my case) $50 a month. I'm fine with that because I absolutely know, first hand, the value of it. "Inside the Edit" is the same price as Adobe's Creative Master Suite, but with next to no real knowledge of its worth-- and they expect all the money upfront.

If they really, really believe in the value of this program, then they should allow their customers to start the course for a small fee, then as they progress and potentially decide to fully commit to a year, create a higher priced tier for these people who want to see it through. Otherwise, no matter how much money anyone has, there is simply TOO MUCH RISK associated with this kind of upfront cost-- no matter how incredible it might be.

August 29, 2014 at 1:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tyler

The whole market system is ultimately based on customer's (or should I say consumer's) wallet. You can make business plans and predictions, but in the end you may still be surprised how much you sell (in both ways)...

August 26, 2014 at 8:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Pete

Some of the remarks here reflect indeed the quoted gear focus.
3000 Pounds? I can buy a mac for that!

Directing Motion is a 2 day workshop people are willing to pay approx $300,- for.
Imagine you're doing Inside the edit 1 day a week. 50 times $150,- is still $7500,- :-p
I know a Dutch editor giving workshop about editing, like Inside the Edit, but only for a day or 2 or 3 and I believe he charges €400,- or more.
So I guess they mixed up real life workshop prices vs online workshop prices.

Yes, it's a steep price.
And I wonder how it works: for 1 year?
Does it means that when you take time, like they suggest, you won't finish in time and have to resubscribe?

Let's face it: a lot of edits are lacking, because the editor doesn't fully grasp the meaning of a frame or a cut...

August 25, 2014 at 5:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Wouter

3,000 £ = $4,790 ha ha... don't think so... poor business plan.

August 25, 2014 at 6:26AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Razor

Don't forget 20% VAT: $4,790 + 20% VAT = $5748. From the 4th of september it will be nearly $8000!..

August 27, 2014 at 9:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Luca

HAHAHAHAHAA... I knew that this article would be full of comments when I visited the site of these guys... I believe they think we are stupids! If somebody have almost 5k to burn in a one year on line course this person certainly have money to choose another "cool" academic alternative right in the field, not behind the mockup!

From the bottom of my heart I wish that this entire course to be uploaded to a tracker as soon as the first victim buy it!!!!

August 25, 2014 at 9:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Claudinho Andrés

I think they looked at video gear and thought "we can sell over-priced stuff, too!"

I mean, the video world is full of things that are much too expensive! I bought a Chrosziel baseplate last year, it is basically two pieces of aluminum with a few screws and two short aluminum rods and it cost 550€ (725 USD).
I have seen aluminum rods for a specialized shoulder mount that were sold at 300€ (395 USD) a piece. These were just single pieces of aluminum.
A steadicam operator told me that a certain high-flex triax cable he needs for his machine in order to do live television events is 1000€ (1320 USD) - for about 4 feet of cable!

So, 3000 pounds sounds like a steal! ;)

Just kidding, almost nobody will buy it, and they will have to re-think their pricing!

August 28, 2014 at 6:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Heiko

I think the correlation between people who need this course and people who can afford to pay the price will be quite small.

August 25, 2014 at 9:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Billy C

From the preview, the course seems really great, thumbs up for the creator!
Intelligent, sensible approach to learn about editing.
I would love to see it, but for the price, it is a too serious investment for me - i don't want to become a professional editor.

August 26, 2014 at 9:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Pete

Complaint, complaint, complaint about the price :) Hope someone is listening.

August 27, 2014 at 7:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gul Ramani

Whoever handles their business side should be fired. Total lack of understanding the market and demographic, and it's going to bite them badly. Which is too bad because the creative side was excellent, but the business side chose to go in a direction that was complete nonsense and severely restricted the cashflow and potential widespread adoption of this tutorial.

August 27, 2014 at 11:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Alex

Maybe they plan on reducing the price massively at some point and think they can get more customers if they give a 90% discount?

However if they do that, everybody who paid the full price will hate them forever, so... it's also a bad idea!

August 28, 2014 at 7:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Heiko

Is £3000-£4000 a lot of money to invest? Well it depends. Personally, I haven't seen anything like this course so if that is the case then the course will be expensive. Only later on will they consider dropping the price. However, I doubt it very much that it will go as low as £400.

August 28, 2014 at 6:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Richard

$5,000.00 US!!!!! Are you f'n kidding me? What a joke for a start-up online course. I don't care what the pedigree is, that price is funnier than the Queen's knickers falling down live on the Beeb.

August 28, 2014 at 6:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Jim

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