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1. Write the Feature. 2. Make a Short. 3. Get the Feature Made. (Coming Soon: a MANCHILD Short)

UPDATE: In response to some of the (heated! opinionated!) questions and comments on this post, we did a long video Q&A as well.

I wrote recently about finishing the screenplay for my feature MANCHILD (for now… ), but it’s been a while since I talked about what else is going on in the trenches of first-time feature filmmaking. The title of the post gives it away: we’re making a short. Why are we doing this? And why do I think this strategy makes a lot of sense for other first-time feature directors? Because there are millions of people with a screenplay, all trying to figure out how to get from here (words on a page) to there (actual finished movie). If your goal seems impossibly far off, that’s when it’s time to bite off a smaller chunk and show what you’re capable of.

“What have you directed lately?”

When someone likes your script, the next logical question you’re going to be asked as a writer-director is, “what have you directed lately?” If you’ve never directed before… you’re probably going to have a hard time getting your feature made. If you have directed before but your material is of a different genre than your feature script, if it’s in a different style, if it’s dated technologically, if it was of a different (or non-existent) budget level… you’re also probably going to have a hard time getting your feature made. I’m in all of the latter situations, as my no-budget, black-and-white, stylized “urban western” web series I co-directed with Zack Lieberman, The West Side — which I shot myself in 2007-2008 in standard-definition black-and-white — is still what I”m known for today (the only other thing I might throw on a reel is my RED SCARLET camera test, and that was done under even more limited conditions than TWS — except we had a better camera).1

So, despite the script for MANCHILD garnering some prestigious grants and other selections:

A good script is not enough

Put yourself in the shoes of a talented actor. For your next project you have dozens of scripts from which to choose, from big-budget studio films all the way down to no-budget student projects. Some of them have financing attached, some of them are shooting soon, some of them have other (possibly star) actors attached, and some of them are just at the script stage with no firm attachments or schedule. It’s highly unlikely you’re going to move the ones that are “just a script” to the top of the pile.

Therefore our goal as directors is to get as many elements in place on a project — producers, talent, crew, schedule, financing, locations — to make the film as real as possible, in order to help bring talent on board. But it’s a catch-22 — you might need talent attached to raise the financing, and you might need financing attached to get the talent. What’s a filmmaker to do?

“This is going to be good.”

That’s what you want a producer/actor/agent/etc. to think when they read your script or hear your pitch. Not “this could be good.” Every script is execution dependent, and there are plenty of projects out there that could be good. You want to put together a package that makes someone think, “this is going to be good with or without me. I want to be a part of it.”

With that in mind, in addition to the MANCHILD screenplay, I’ve put together a mood reel (we’ve looked at the sizzle reels of several other directors as well), director’s statement, hypothetical cast list, potential budget, and I’m putting together a marketing plan now as well. But while these materials are nice to have, they are more likely to help someone see how the project could work — they’re less likely to convince them that it’s going to be good. To really show something, it’s time to:

Make a short

Mood/sizzle reels are nice, but they generally consist of materials made by someone else. To really demonstrate your vision for the feature, the best approach may be to bite off a smaller chunk of the full-length story and make a short out of it. It could be an actual sequence from the feature script, it could explore a minor character or incident from the feature in greater depth, or it could be an entirely new prequel/sequel/tangential storyline. The end goal is to make something that demonstrates your abilities and helps potential producers/talent/investors better see the finished feature film in their heads. Thus the steps are, to reiterate:

  1. Write the Feature.
  2. Make a Short.
  3. Get the Feature Made.

MANCHILD and raising additional financing

One reason to make a short is to help raise financing to make the feature. Of course, I already ran a Kickstarter campaign for MANCHILD, so why make a short if the financing is already in place? Let’s take a look at what I wrote on the MANCHILD Kickstarter page:

Movies are really expensive; Hollywood spends $100 million on making a single movie all the time. So believe me when I say it’s going to be a challenge to make this for “only” $115k! Especially because it’s a sports movie — it’s not one guy in a room talking, it’s a lot of people running through carefully choreographed actions in a gymnasium in front of a crowd of spectators. I drew up the budget below myself, but note that I am NOT a producer. Once there’s a producer attached, they will come up with their own budget, which will undoubtedly be higher than mine, and then we’ll have to raise more money or make tough decisions about what we WANT in the film versus what we absolutely NEED.

From meeting with a number of experienced producers — indeed, one of my Kickstarter updates was titled Fifty Meetings Later — that last sentence has proved to be the case. The producer I’ve been working with is Chip Hourihan, whose (much more extensive) bio begins with:

Chip Hourihan has produced fifteen independent films in the past ten years. Frozen River, which he produced and line produced, received the Grand Jury Prize at the 2008 Sundance Film Festival, and was nominated for two 2009 Academy Awards.

Chip has been great to work with, and he obviously brings a lot of experience to the table. He and the other producers I’ve met with have all felt the same way — that there is really no way to make this feature as written with JUST the Kickstarter funds. Could we get something in the can? Absolutely — but we’d have to cut out a lot, and I haven’t worked so hard to get to this point only to make half of a movie. The best films are greater than the sum of their parts, and if we start pulling out components, the movie as a whole will surely be a lesser work.

Shooting with a larger budget is not a matter of having luxuries on set or affording star actors. It’s a matter of doing the story justice: being able to give us enough time on set to get convincing performances, being able to capture the basketball as written (the sports scenes are a vital part of the piece as a whole), and being able to include the sub-plots, minor characters, themes, and arcs that I’ve constructed very carefully over the past two years.

This section isn’t easy to write, because I can hear this hypothetical comment ahead of time: “Wait, you got us all to give you money so you could make your movie and now you say you need MORE money?” Sure, but I’m not asking for more money on Kickstarter; we’re looking to raise more financing to make MANCHILD by augmenting the Kickstarter funds with traditional independent film financing. Most Kickstarter campaigns only cover part of a film’s production, not the entirety of it, and this one is no different.

Any working filmmaker understands — when it comes down to it, you’re chiefly concerned with doing what’s best for your film. You can’t get caught up in thinking about what people are going to say, how it’s going to look to outsiders, and whether you’re going to get someone’s goat.2 If you have goats, believe me, I’m not trying to get them. Unless you have a lot of them, in which case we could maybe sell them and finance the rest of the movie. So let us know if you have a lot of goats!

Three great examples of shorts that led to features

Making a short to help get a feature made isn’t a new approach by any means; I’m not claiming any credit for it. Here are three great examples.

Five Feet High and Rising –> Raising Victor Vargas

Five Feet High and Rising received the Jury Prize in Short Filmmaking at Sundance in 2000 and the resulting feature Raising Victor Vargas was selected for the 2002 Cannes film festival as well as the 2003 Sundance film festival.

From producer Ted Hope, in a post fittingly titled First The Feature (Script), Then The Short:

[Anna Boden] and Ryan Fleck had been inspired by Peter Sollet’s RAISING VICTOR VARGAS and the prize-winning short that preceded it 5 FEET HIGH & RISING. They had written the HALF NELSON script and in trying to figure out how to do a short that could help get the feature made they decided to shift the focus away from the focus on the teacher (later played by Ryan Gosling in the feature) and put in on Shareeka Epps the student (and who stars in each the short and feature).

Here’s the resulting short, Gowanus, Brooklyn, which helped Boden and Fleck get Half Nelson made:

Gowanus, Brooklyn –> Half Nelson

Similar to Five Feet/Victor Vargas, Gowanus, Brooklyn premiered at the 2004 Sundance film festival and took home the Jury Prize for Short Filmmaking; Half Nelson premiered at the 2006 Sundance film festival, was a box-office success (grossing $4.6 million worldwide versus a reported $700,000 budget), and took home several Independent Spirit Awards; lead Ryan Gosling was also nominated for an Oscar.

Compared to the example of Gowanus/Nelson, I’m attempting to do the opposite with MANCHILD as far as the characters are concerned — whereas the short focuses on the kid and the feature is about the adult, my short is about an adult and the feature is about the kid. I didn’t actually realize how closely I’m hewing to these past approaches until writing this post, because while it just so happens that both of these shorts are portraits of urban youth (one even holding a basketball!), the example that first came to my mind when I was planning a short was in fact Sean Durkin’s Mary Last Seen, a short that played Sundance and helped get the Ted Hope-produced Martha Marcy May Marlene off the ground. Here’s a brief trailer for Mary Last Seen:

Mary Last Seen –> Martha Marcy May Marlene

However, the short isn’t available online (it can be seen on the MMMM DVD/Blu-ray). Which brings us to a topic we’ve talked about before here on NFS:

Festival vs. Online Distribution (for shorts)

While we riffed on it here, I highly recommend Short of the Week’s full case study on the topic of releasing a short online versus playing at festival(s). The topic gets a bit more specific if you’re making a short with the goal of getting a feature made; in this situation, there are a few approaches you could take with a short to garner maximum interest and/or exposure:

  1. Show it privately to prospective producers, financiers, and talent
  2. Premiere at a (preferably well-known) film festival and leverage the prestige
  3. Release it online and try to get it in front of as many people as possible

These options are not mutually exclusive. For example, you could premiere at a festival for the laurels (and the chance to potentially pick up an award), and then after that show it privately to prospective investors. Or you could premiere at a festival (or three) and then after that move on to widespread online distribution.

But there’s another consideration: your production timeline. Submitting to a festival brings with it a delay of a few months while you wait to see if you got in; furthermore, the festival you think is right for your short may have already come and gone, or it may remain several months off. During this waiting period, you can’t show it online — most festivals will not allow your film to play online before it premieres at their festival (understandable). So depending on when you’re looking to shoot your feature, it may not make sense to wait months before you can show your short anywhere.

In the case of MANCHILD, the feature is almost certainly a summer shoot because that’s when kids are out of school; if we want to shoot during the school year, we would have to hire tutors and provide schooling for the duration of the shoot, and that could add significantly/prohibitively to our budget. I’d like to shoot MANCHILD this coming summer, as opposed to next. And that means we’re on a tight timeline with the short, which means film festivals don’t make sense. For example, the Tribeca Film Festival is one of the top film festivals here in New York; it even has an ESPN Sports Film Festival component, which makes a lot of sense for MANCHILD. It would be great to have the short play at Tribeca, especially in light of the fact that MANCHILD received a grant from Tribeca! But the deadline to apply to the festival was in November, and the festival itself is in mid-April. So as much as I’d love to play there — assuming the short got in, no easy feat — we would’ve needed a finished short by November, which was when I was just starting to write it. Therefore:

Coming Soon: a MANCHILD Short

I’ve already written the script. We’re casting as we speak. We’ll be shooting in a couple of weeks and I’m going to put some long hours in the edit room to fast-track post-production so we can get it out there — online, available for anyone to see and share — ASAP.

The reason to make this short is not only to help raise financing. It’s to make everything about the project better: to help with talent attachments, to gain credibility in the basketball world, to launch the MANCHILD website (there isn’t one at present), to hone my own on-set chops on a shooting pace similar to that of the feature, to find potential collaborators for the feature, and to generally raise the profile of the project. If you’re thinking about putting together a short that ties into a feature, many of these reasons will likely be similar for you as well!

In response to the comments below, I did a follow-up Q&A as well.

  1. This lack of director’s reel material is due to two main things: one, launching and growing this site over the last three years equated to a full-time job much of the time, and two, working on a number of screenplays (MANCHILD in 2011-2012, 3rd Rail in 2009-2010, and a few other incomplete scripts along the way) also equated to a full-time job… sometimes at the same time as the full-time job of growing NFS. I wouldn’t change anything about my approach and decisions over the past few years — I learned a lot of valuable lessons and have grown a lot as a screenwriter — but everything comes with inherent sacrifices and the casualty in this case was my director’s reel of recent work. []
  2. Speaking of getting someone’s goat: this should go without saying, but all of the Kickstarter money is still in the bank, untouched (except what I had to pay in taxes, which is another issue that deserves its own post… coming soon). So it turns out that the minor controversy over me buying a camera would’ve been moot even if I HAD used the Kickstarter funds — which, again, I didn’t — since, by virtue of sub-renting the camera through a rental house, the SCARLET is now paid off. By the time we’re shooting the feature I’ll have hopefully spent negative money on the SCARLET, which makes it hard to argue with that purchasing decision! []

Related Posts

  1. My Entire Life Has Been Leading Up to This. Will You Help Me Make My First Feature Film?
  2. Leaving It All on the Court with 24 Hours Left: Everything I've Done to Promote #Manchild
  3. Coming Soon: a RED SCARLET Micro-Short


We’re all here for the same reason: to better ourselves as writers, directors, cinematographers, producers, photographers... whatever our creative pursuit. Criticism is valuable as long as it is constructive, but personal attacks are grounds for deletion; you don't have to agree with us to learn something. We’re all here to help each other, so thank you for adding to the conversation!

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  • Ryan you seem a little too defensive, these are just peoples opinions. I notice some of the more critical comments have been deleted which brought up interesting points.

    There’s a difference in raising money online versus raising money in the film world. Success in one doesn’t automatically qualify the other.

    What would you do if you can’t raise anymore funding? I thought the whole point of this was to go outside the system, now you are at the mercy of traditional film money dictating when and how you make your film. Additional funds would likely come with strings attached.

    • I haven’t deleted any comments.
      Sure I’m being defensive – because people are putting up straw arguments and then cutting them down. This is supposed to be a conversation about making a short to get a feature made as a strategy and instead we have statements like “Success in one doesn’t automatically qualify the other.” Where did I say that it did?

      • I’m not seeing many strawmen. Ryan, I don’t think you’re being as transparent as you think you are with people who are rooting for you and want you to succeed. Despite the long blog post, there’s a lot of unanswered questions. You even just ignored another one from trevor.

        1.) How MUCH more money are you seeking? You’d likely have a lot more support in seeking an additional amount near what you have vs. 2x/3x/4x(5x/6x?!) more. Hell, maybe you could even raise it here.

        2.) What evidence do you have that a check from some larger entity/person is ONLY being held up by the signer not knowing your current level of director craftsmanship?

        3.) YOU are the one who set the $125K Kickstarter goal. I can’t be the only one thinking that goal met = movie gets made. Now their’s another hurdle? Did you originally believe that would be enough money and now you changed your mind, or was Kickstarter ALWAYS only a first fundraising step?

        4.) Can’t make it for $93K? Made a mistake and realized you wrote the wrong movie to be crowdfunded by pleebs? (My words, not yours.) OK, sure, makes sense. But then what happens IF you don’t raise any more money? You’ve backed yourself into a corner saying it can’t be done for $93K. Most people think you’re wrong (and are likely willing to help you more even if not in cash but with production), but if you draw that line at $93K = not enough, what then?

        Whether or not you owe any public explanation of your choices is another matter. You asked for help. People helped you with no strings attached except that the movie get made. No one threw down cash to help you have the opportunity to ask for more money from someone else (or am I wrong?).

        I’ve been following your arc (we’ve been following/encouraging each other?) for longer than most readers. I have some misgivings about why you’re all of a sudden doubting your ability to reverse engineer a budget (“I’m not a producer!”) when you’ve successfully done so many things already outside of your comfort zone. Acting like the finances are Greek to you seems really odd.

        Collectively, a lot of us gave you a chance that, individually, we won’t have.

        No one (thus far) funded your help-me-be-a-career-artist quest expecting a return other than seeing “one of us” get closer to their dream/potential. If an audience has been key to your success to date and will be playing an even bigger part in the future, I’d wager your most ardent fan base is on this thread.

        There’s no wrong answers to the missing questions synthesized above, and if I could be personal for a second, no expectations that you answer them publicly, privately, or at all.

        • Hey Josh,

          No, absolutely — this site is here because it’s all part of an ongoing dialogue. I want to answer questions and sometimes I’ll be more defensive than I should be because, well, we’re all human. And when you’re working extremely hard on something and people are questioning why it’s taking so long — and I’m not just talking about here in the comments but in real life as well — that can get frustrating.

          Instead of writing another post-length reply here in the comments, I think it’ll be better if I do a Q&A on NFS talking more about all of this. It’s clear from the comments here that I can do more/better explaining about the timeline and what’s gone on since the Kickstarter campaign, and it’s also clear that a lot of people don’t have a handle on the nitty-gritty of independent film finance and preproduction, so we can talk about that as well and hopefully it’ll be a valuable discussion. Coming soon!

          • For the record, Ryan, I understand where you’re coming from. It’s one thing to have people ask you on forums or websites “Where is your movie?” or even worse, attempt to use what’s out there OF your project against you — I’ve got one guy that LOVES to try this but he has no idea that I probably see more flaws in it than he does, but it’s a COMPLETELY different feeling to get it face-to-face.

            Many descriptors, including exhaustive, disheartening, etc.

            It takes a lot to attempt a feature length film, and I did say earlier that I believe your decision comes from having to MAKE a decision, not excuses but just wanting to do something that isn’t a wash. It’s rough to have a feature film that you’re afraid of allowing others to see… especially as a first timer. This feeling is almost as bad as knowing that the principal called your parent(s) and you have to face that when you get home.

            There are a few people here making some pretty valid points, as a backer I had the same question: What happens if you do not raise the money you are looking for in a timely manner? When is the cut off? Two years? Three?

            It’s cool to see that you have people all over invested in seeing your product come to life, and some of us put up money to help! Me thinks we all just want to see it happen, so that’s why you have the long-winded posts here.

            Anyway, staying tuned for the next discussion.

            Shoot it up!

  • Ryan, I didn’t back your project, so honestly I’m not that invested in this conversation (I am one of the readers you gained because of the campaign). But the criticism you’ve received, you shouldn’t get too defensive about it. If I pre-sold any other product to someone, and a year later hadn’t delivered that product, I’d be expecting some pissed off people. I hope your plan works out for you. But don’t forget that if you don’t get this done soon, investors aren’t going to look kindly on the fact that you’ve been holding some “other investors” money for an extended period of time with no ROI. They’ll want to see that you are capable of handling their money, that they have a chance of getting it back, and I’m sure they’ll want to see that you can stay within the budget you propose. At this point you haven’t shown that you can do any of the above. Good luck.

    • great post! The filmmakers of Saw come to mind who used this strategy and produced a short film out of a scene after having no success with the script alone! Well you know the story…
      Good luck with the short, looking forward to it!

      • Hey Ryan, great post! The filmmakers of Saw come to mind who used this strategy and produced a short film out of a scene after having no success with the script alone! Well you know the story…
        Good luck with the short, looking forward to it!

  • Tim Rockwood on 02.7.13 @ 5:34PM

    Thousands of feature film projects are launched each year. Many get finished/delivered. A few get into Sundance or any of the approximately 7,000 other film festivals (there is one every day somewhere). Even fewer get onto so-called television networks. Unless Kickstarters go eyes wide shut before they click PayPal, they’re betting on the concept and the team to deliver. IIRC about one in 15 start-ups succeed. How many films make their money back? Just a few thoughts from a veteran of the network and indie wars. I salute anybody with the vision and groove to make a film and to seek funding. That human proclivity ain’t going away.

  • Koo has the right idea.

  • A couple of thoughts on crowdfunding and money needed to make a feature.

    I have backed a couple of films on crowd-funding sites and haven’t gotten anything back form them apart from a couple of small messages. But no regular communication on how the film is going etc. Admittedly they were both in the second half of last year so it will be a bit of time before they are made.

    I do think there is a risk of crowd funding losing a lot of support it has gathered over the last few years if films people have funded don’t come out soon. Especially in todays worlds where most of us would rather get a digital copy of a film right now when we want to see it than go to the effort of walking to a shop and buying it there.

    I have looking into crowdfunding a lot lately for my own documentary films, I am of the belief of trying to hold off till post production to raise the funds, when I am confident in what I have shot and can give a “clearer” deadline of when the film will be finished. Of course if you need money for production then you have to run it earlier, but I would try and get as many elements into place before running it.

    Another thing that annoys me about a number of crowdfunding campaigns is that they only give you the film after it has had a cinema release etc. Which by living in Australia a lot of films won’t ever have a cinema release here.

    As far as making a feature film for 100k or 10k or whatever, the main reason it is possible to make a film for very little is basically people work on it for free. I make a lot of films for free (usually short and for youtube) because I like doing it. If someone was to provide me with a room to live in and food every day, sure I would work on films for free all the time. But the fact is most of us have to pay rent etc that means to be able to work on a film full time over a lengthy period means we need money to live off. Of course you could always get people to work for free on weekends and so forth but that presents a whole lot of issues and in production you will most likely get better results over a solid few weeks or months than that same time spread out over a year or more.

  • Please consider writing a post about subletting a camera through a rental house. It seems like a brilliant way to pay for an expensive camera, but I would be worried about how much wear and tear the brand new camera received. Does the rental house repair any damage or do you have to provide your own insurance? Sorry if this is off topic.

    • That’s a good idea for a post, thanks Richard.

      • i would love this info. I’m looking at doing it myself and have asked you several times for some helpful info. it would be greatly appreciated.

        (Disclaimer – I am writing this after the Q&A went up but before I can listen to it as I am at work)

        As for the Manchild stuff. I discovered your site after the Kickstarter so I don’t have a vested interest in this, but I can understand peoples grips. If the intention of the kickstarter was to make the movie, and you said “I need this much to make it.” then you turn around on those people and essentially say, ‘ you know what? What you gave is no longer good enough.” People’s feelings will be hurt. I think you should do what is best for your movie and for your art, but don’t be surprised by kickback.

        Another issue at play here is this site is in many ways about paradigm shift. Finding ways outside the traditional ‘gate keepers’ to make a movie and make it successfully. Get it to an audience. And to start on that route and then say something that to many here probably sounds like, “Thanks guys, but now I want to play with the BIG BOYS.” Seems like a big slap in the face. I’m not saying that was your intention or even what you said, but I bet that’s how it was heard, and I think its a fair interpretation of what is going on, from the perspective of the people who support and frequent this site, who are struggling and hustling just as much as you to get the proverbial “piece of the pie”.

        I would think the more grace you can display toward their frustrations the more you might get back from them. I don’t think that’s easy. It’s not, but if you want the grace from your community as you change and adapt your plans, you should afford them when they don’t understand and feel betrayed.

        But best of luck man. I can’t wait to see what happens with this. You have a lot of things going for you in this situation. There is tons of potential, can’t wait to see it explode on the screen.

        Complete side note. I just finished shooting a short this weekend. We are still raising money. I’m not actually asking for support. Just want to send links out into the world. More updates are coming.

  • Hey Ryan,

    I don’t want you to feel interrogated, because I genuinely admire what you’ve done and what you’re doing. I’m actually very interested in following this whole process from an indie filmmaking perspective, and would like to apply it to my own low budget feature at some point. I’ve got a couple of questions, and you mentioned you might do a Q&A at some point, so these may be worth saving until then. But:

    1) With the writing and revisions to the script that you’ve been undergoing over the past year, have you been writing with budget in mind? Or have you just been trying to write the best possible script, and then aiming to try and work a budget around that?

    2) Do you think the two processes should be intertwined? For example, I have an idea for a low budget feature, but I find myself trying to think of ways to tailor the idea to a low cost form of production, even though the idea has scope to be a multi-million dollar production if I chose to write it different ways. In the end, since I plan on making the film myself, I feel that it doesn’t make sense for me to be writing something that’s beyond my means of accomplishment. (The answer to this response is entirely subjective, but I’m just curious since you’ve got access to funds already, and if you found yourself writing your scope up or down to match that).

    3) I know from personal experience that a lot can happen once you finally get on set, and scenes can be dropped, others can be added. How do you anticipate these changes, and allow for a safety net of funds to accomodate?

    4) As a director, have you found that the coverage you’re planning for the film has been impacted by the budget, or is this one of those elements that you’re looking to expand the budget to help cover? And how has this effected the tone of the film in your mind (as far as visualising it)? I know that TWS was quite stylized, and that to achieve similar looks on a large production could be costly, so have you had to consider cheaper, more organic, off the shoulder shooting options?

    5) Whilst you were writing and revising the script, did you have producers onboard at that point? And were they helping to try and steer you and the script towards something that was achievable with the budget, since you had a fair idea of the budget back last year?

    6) At what point do you consider making the film for the budget on hand, as opposed to the budget you’d desire? Do you have contingency scripts for that, which might involve lower cost scenes? Or do you just plan on finding lower cost ways to cover that same script?

    Again, please don’t take any of these questions as any kind of negative outlook on your approach. Being able to ask someone these questions as they’re in the midst of the process is actually a fantastic opportunity for me, and others, to learn for your experience. Thanks again for taking the time to share all this stuff, in the midst of pre-production.

    • Ben,

      These are really great questions and this is exactly the kind of discussion I’m hoping to engender. We’ll get to them all in the Q&A, thanks for asking!

  • Your feature will probably never get made. You’re too scared to do it. You defaulted to doing a short because you think $115k is not enough to make a sports feature. That’s because you are letting your limitations dictate your creativity instead of using your creativity to overcome your limitations.

    You are not the first to make these excuses and won’t be the last. There are filmmakers worldwide, who will never come close to the amount of money you received and could still make this film work.

    If you don’t know how to make this movie, you should figure it out, or don’t make it. Why make a short and then remake as a feature. That’s a waste of energy. That’s a waste of time.

    Make the feature, or don’t make the feature. No short. No excuses.

    • Kevin Brock on 02.10.13 @ 5:03PM

      “You’re too scared…” said the ANONYMOUS guy.

    • I have to kind of “agree” with the above. It sounds like either you are bewildered with all the stuff you’re faced with in getting this thing from script to screen, or you never intended to. To be quite honest, your film doesn’t sound very interesting to not only me – but many other posters here, and you bought a very expensive, flashy camera off the backs of your kickstarters… whether you paid for it or not – not the point… it just looks messy.

      You say the current budget will not do the film justice, tell that to Robert Rodriguez. You hatched the initial plan pal! You want to include subplots into your boring film – ipso facto – making it more boring. Take Kevins Smiths advice – cut that *ish down. Keep it snappy, quick, interesting… it’s a sports film – not Pride and Prejudice.

      I say you need to return your kickstarter funds and crank out a no budget short, maybe then you’ll regain the confidence of your supporters.

  • This was actually what I was going to do first. Make a short, then use that to gain financing. I had several producers tell me that was a bad idea because if the short sucks or just doesn’t resonate, than no one will give you money for the feature. Of course no one goes into this with the idea of making a shitty short, but it’s always a possibility. No second chance at first impressions and all.

    I’m surprised you’re having a hard time finding extra financing. I was going to do exactly what you did if my Kickstarter had worked. Raise about $100k and then use that as my “buy in” to direct even though I hadn’t directed anything before. Interesting to see that this doesn’t seem to work. I figured showing up with six figures already would entice others to throw in, but it doesn’t seem to be that simple.

    Right now I’m actually in the process of rewriting my script (same one I did the Kickstarter for) for a specific actor/director/producer and they’ll go off and make it. I came to realize that I wouldn’t give myself money to shoot an entire feature film considered I’ve never directed anything. I think shorts for the most part are a waste of time, but they would definitely be helpful to at least show someone that you’ve done this before and that’s probably where I’m heading.

    So if my failed Kickstarter script actually does get produced, and then I have a short to show for it — maybe then I’ll be able to attract financiers for my next project. If I’m not blind by then :)

    Best of luck Koo.

  • Ryan,
    Please take a look at This is a fantastic resource for people like you and me looking to finance our films. Stacey who runs it, is a former sales agent, and current producer. The bottom line is that first time filmmakers (meaning never budgeted and distributed traditionally) can get a film made with a $250K budget if they package a film project by industry standards.

    Now there are certain principles, such as you should try to have a name actor and a genre script, because that’s what the market wants. You play to the market and adjust accordingly. You finance the film through pre-sales, soft money (like tax incentives), and equity investors. Crowd funding is a small part of it, if you use it at all. Film Specific has a monthly fee but many producers in a wide range of experience and success use it all the time. And there are free resources there too.

    Secondly, I have to say that making a short is often out of the question. It’s expensive. And it’s very unlikely a short will get festival play let alone accolades. But, I think making a trailer is a great compromise. The Coens are one example. The made a trailer of a fist going through a wall to promote their first feature, Blood Simple, to prospective producers. But also you need to have your business plan, a professionally done budget, interested name talent, and of course a really good marketable script.

    First time filmmakers can’t get budgets to do pet projects. You have to make stuff that will sell, that people want to see. Doing a short is certainly good, if you can do that. But I think the risk of resources to do that are not worth it. Better to do a trailer.

    • Thanks Jon — I have read Stacey’s book (most of it, at least, I’m actually finishing it now) and know all about Film Specific, the Coens, etc. but these topics are definitely something we will discuss in the Q&A.

      Ultimately what I want to caution against is folks thinking there is a “one size fits all” approach. Every project is different and I wouldn’t make assumptions about mine (that this is a pet project that no one wants to see, for example). As for the short, it’s not about festival accolades (as the post makes explicit), and if it’s a contained short, it can be easier to pull off (well) than a trailer, IMO.

  • I think it’s great that you are really planning out your feature. It is a very ambitious project but I know that you can very well pull it off. I think a short will definitely help improve the final product and you are going about this the best way possible. But I’ve got a couple questions about how you are doing a few things. For example, are the actors cast for the short also going to be a part of the feature? And how do you go about casting? Do you cast everyone at once or do you cast when you need people?

    Anyway, I cannot wait for Man-Child and I wish you the absolute best for your project.

  • I would have to agree with Ben and a couple of other posters on the board. I have been following this campaign since i first read about it and the movie is still not made. I was excited as hell for you because it gave me hope that maybe, I could finally get some funds for our movies. During the time of your campaign and with budgets of roughly a thousand each, we have made two features; one released last summer and one released early this spring. I can’t even fathom having 20k as a budget for either one let alone what you have for this. We tried Kickstarter, Indie Gogo, rich relatives, and on and on.

    What seems to me is that you’ve crippled yourself and the process in the quest to make the perfect film; which doesn’t exist no matter what kind of budget you have. I was stunned when i read just a couple weeks ago that you didn’t have a finished script after this long let alone hadn’t shot a single scene. There’s no straw man arguments from me – just raw motivation. You can make a damned fine movie if you want with the COH. The problem exists here simply because you or something else is holding you back. Being defensive isn’t getting your movie made. Make the movie, drop the short.

    • I would LOVE to see these features that you’ve made for $1,000 each. If they are not absolute garbage then you have made film history.

    • post links to a feature a short literally ANY of these features. please. i agree with mark i would LOVe to see film history as well.

    • still waiting.

      • Who the f are you two to be questioning me or the quality of my work? The writer asked for feedback on this so he got some. My point as well as a few of the other posters here is that he’s basically paralyzed himself in search of perfection. He’s not going to get it and i am not trying to call out Mr. Koo at all. I am thinking he just needs to stop wasting time with shorts, rewrites and other crap and make his movie as best he can with the fairly ample resources he has.

        As far as my work goes; that makes my other point. We would have killed to have a fifth of what he has for resources. Either of you questioning the quality of it or my integrity because you don’t like my comment is both petty and ridiculous.

        But because i have enough balls to be proud of what we have done here’s the first of the two (the other won’t be officially released until April)

        • look man so many people on this forum talk way to much and never show a link to there work. without seeing your movie i cant say whether it is good or not. however telling someone who clearly cares a great deal about his craft how to make his movie is not something i think people have any right to do. hes the one under the gun and i think he knows that people want the movie done but he is making the best decisions based on the information he has. i think hes more informed about his movie. id love to watch your film and tell you if you made something good. (a link to imdb doesnt really show me anything) but for 2k i just dont see how you make a film with any real production value. unless your making it based on looking crappy (found footage/cellphone).
          prove me wrong man.

  • I appretiate all your doing Ryan. Take your time and do it right. Quality over quantity is what the film world needs. I look forward to the short and the feature. Cheers.

  • does anyone know what mr koo is shooting on?
    and after reading all these comments i really just want to say dont listen to anyone. you think a short is a good idea its your vision get it done. no one can tell anyone what the best way for there movie to get made is because every movie takes a different path.

    you raised the money you wrote the script you did the work. so its up to you anyone who says youre scared or some other silly thing is not informed and simply making a stupid comment about YOUR project so who cares.

    Creativity takes courage -Matisse

    Keep shooting and cant wait to see it.

  • You might decide that this is a facetious and unwelcomed jab, or maybe a moment of wisdom, but: There is a preciousness in our culture, now worse than ever, of coddling virginal artistic debuts. This cheat used to be tagged with “fairy tale,” while these days you see it oozing from reality television programs.

    Artistic credibility isn’t just slowly learned, it’s especially earned, in volume. That is the critical flaw of hipster/liberal guilt Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaigns about niche topics. Go look for yourself: you’ll find a stunning lack of linkage at any given campaign to any readily available portfolios of work, demonstrating elbow grease.

    And here, Ryan Koo is respectfully forthcoming about his lack of any body of work to show for. After all this debating, campaigning, pleading, and strategizing, there’s a classical (tested) course of action: elbow grease. Debuts with budgets well over $100k make for quaint stories, and yammering agents love the idea of “discovering talent,” but we seem to have lost one quotient of humility in the arts: Creativity grows in increments. I think it’s awesome that Mr. Koo is putting himself out there and might create something incredible. But he might not. Then what? (not brilliant, but not hidden: I wouldn’t dare ask for a cent from anybody without a few more pages of clips)

  • Wait wait… so you raise $90,000 to shoot a film you claim to have budgeted and planned for only to reveal to the people who gave you money that the script isn’t finished and and you’ve decided to shoot a short instead because some how you’ve discovered that wasn’t enough money? My company shot a feature on 10K that has worldwide distribution, friends of ours shot films on 20K and 40K that are amassing epic followings!! We are presently shooting a film on 2K that is gaining the support of major companies across the state?! And you can’t shoot a feature on 90K?

    I as well as hundreds of other film makers would kill for even half of what you’ve scammed out of your supporters. Suck it up boy-o and shoot the feature you promised people… any actual investor would have had you drawn and quartered by now.

    • Feel free to share links to these projects.

    • Wow, you can make your point without personally attacking people. Drawn and quartered? Really? I may not agree with every decision Ryan makes regarding ManChild, but it’s his journey. Let him do what he wants!

    Above is the link a short I made. If anyone can please give creative critism, I would most appreciate it. I am here to learn.
    Thank you all,

  • Ryan: Are you aware that Ed Burns just made a film for $9,000 and also did a very informative interview that encouraged “serious” filmmakers to comprehend that can be done? I also just saw an excellent feature that earned spots in several major film festivals that cost $30,000? If you can’t make a feature for $115,000, you need to rethink your career choice. And I agree with the other poster that a YOU were the one who set your Kickstarter goal. You got your money. You led contributors to belive you would make a film. Now go make the film. Period.

  • Thanks Ryan, gotta respect you for working so hard and so openly too. For every hater, there’s 10 of us who look up to you. MAKE AWESOME STUFF!

  • Good luck either way!

    I hope there will be some great special features when it does come out!

  • Thanks Philip and Brad. And yes, we’re hoping to do special features during production — a way, way smaller version of The Hobbit production diaries, more focused on the nitty-gritty of filmmaking.

  • Don’t forget “Alive in Joburg” which inspired District 9

    • Quit encouraging him to do a short.
      He doesn’t need to do one he’s ready.

      Sure if Peter Jackson likes a short….
      he can get anyone $25 million for a feature.

  • Canon? The printer manufacturer?nice that they are also doing dslrs now.

  • Marc Paolella on 03.29.13 @ 9:45AM

    I still maintain that no questions need be answered about the campaign. When you give money to a creative for a kickstart campaign, you give it without control or expectation. All that is in place is trust. You look at the pitch and decide to go or no go. Once you go, you shut up and wait. If something happens, fine. If the money is squandered, too bad, be more careful evaluating the next pitch.

    I think Ryan should concentrate ONLY on making the film, not answering these stupid questions. JMO.

  • Ryan,
    You’re inner critic has come back. The pressure of doing something that you have never done has caused you to fear the unknown. Therefore you are listening to your inner critic, and he is having conversations with those producers. Remember those producers want to make things practical, but they don’t do things for you, they want you to succeed and listen to them. I honestly think your first movie won’t be any good, unless you have amazing talent.

    I watched your short and the story is solid, but a little weak on the exposition. For example, you rely on the stereotype that a good basketball player is going to be recruited by a scout, but I didn’t understand the scout’s stakes, or how important it was for him to win over the player until the very end of the film, which isn’t good. Your Hispanic male lead isn’t strong enough to carry a feature in my own opinion. Your African American lead did well, his lips were quivering during his conversation on the bleachers, it made me think something was seriously wrong with him. On hindsight that lip quiver conveys something like, “I’m afraid of telling you this, because it is so personal to me”. Something was a little off about it, but it wasn’t the mislead at the end because if he was really a con artist, he would be able to lie confidently. This leads me to the conclusion that his lip is quivering because he is afraid of the camera.

    Since you are his director, and I believe you are channeling emotion through him, I see YOU in him. I see your lip quivering. And after reading all of the above nonsense, I realized you are making excuses because you are afraid to make a movie that sucks.

    I hope you find this comment helpful. I wish you the best of luck, and remember, you are your own worst enemy. Close your eyes and repeat after me, everything is going to be okay, and I can do it.


  • Hello, always i used to check website posts here early in the break of day,
    for the reason that i like to gain knowledge of more and more.

  • The one thing I’m finding the most challenging is finding people who want to help you in your film….

    I’ve tried working together on an idea (instead of just being my own), but it seems that unless you pay its not easy getting volunteers. Any tips appreciated. Thanks.

  • yasser puri on 02.21.14 @ 4:24PM

    example: bottle rocket.

    wes anderson and owen wilson wrote and made bottle rocket (the short), before being approached at sundance to make it into a feature film. hence began the colourful directorial career of wes anderson.

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