September 25, 2013

RED DRAGON is Not Just About 6K Resolution

At this point RED has beaten the drum very loudly regarding higher resolution, and when you're dealing with single sensor cameras that lose resolution due to interpolation (not every pixel represents red, green, and blue, thus it has to be created), it does make a lot of sense. But that's not all that's important in image quality (not by a long shot), and the DRAGON is beginning to prove that you're getting more than just 6K with the new sensor, you're also getting a great image that is tremendously malleable. John Marchant of KipperTie already showed off a little bit of his footage playing around with DRAGON, and now we've got even more, including his thoughts on the situation.

Here is the original clip, followed by an extended version:

If you missed it, here is Gunleik Groven's NSFW short Sweet shot with DRAGON, where he tries to really push some of the highlight handling of the camera:

Here is John talking about RED and working with 6K:

I think the extended sample from John and Gunleik's short are great tests for the camera as there are some really difficult shots that show this sensor isn't kidding around in the dynamic range department. From all of the RED footage I've seen, the thing that often bothered me the most was not skin tones, but the way highlights were handled in non-daylight situations. Very often they skew towards a sickly yellow when you're correcting for the rest of the frame. This look can work for certain projects, but it feels a bit unnatural in anything other than science fiction. With the new DRAGON footage, I'm not really seeing the yellow -- orange is staying orange, which is already a major improvement in my mind. With new color science, I imagine we're going to see even better color separation in mixed or below-daylight situations.

When people finally get to grade this stuff, that's when you'll know for sure what is there in the "negative." I have a feeling based on what I've seen that the information is there, and you'll be able to do whatever you need to it without breaking other things in the frame.

If you want to read more about Gunleik's shoot, check out the REDUser discussion beginning here.

Links:

Your Comment

174 Comments

Great...!
...
Can you send me one...? Air mail, please... :-)

September 25, 2013 at 3:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I definitely want one too. I haven't wanted a camera this badly ever.

September 25, 2013 at 8:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

That's cheating! You cannot test a camera with hot women!

September 25, 2013 at 3:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Izzy

:D :D

September 25, 2013 at 6:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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guto novo

I don't really like the look of any of the footage I have seen from Dragon.

September 25, 2013 at 3:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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You must hate the Alexa look then, because it looks very similar or better. That NSFW piece was graded to hell and back too.

September 25, 2013 at 5:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

And another sexist camera test.

September 25, 2013 at 3:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Shawn

Yup, she definitely had a gun to her head and was hating it the whole time.

September 25, 2013 at 9:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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tom

I have a few issues with this.... Firsty, you could have chosen a better test video than the misogynistic slow mo nonsense of a girl running toward a lake that was poorly composed and lacked any cinematography whatsoever.

Secondly, the two clips said nothing. The first told was just someones opinion, the second showed a 3 second clip playing back on a MacBook Air?? That has no relevance at all! Try adding colour correction, time shifting, key light, 50 clips to a timeline and see how it plays back!

No disrespect meant. I love NFS, but this post is poor IMO. x

September 25, 2013 at 3:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tom

Did anyone bend your arm or make you and Shawn watch the clip? If not, then don't bother looking at the footage then! You may have issues looking at beautiful women, but others don't.

Even more important is the clip shows the cameras outputs out when it's not tempered with or color corrected.Hence, why it's called TEST FOOTAGE.

September 25, 2013 at 5:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ford

Uh oh. Everyones favorite, poorly and over used word is back.
Women gawking at naked men is empowering. Men doing the same gets labelled misogynist.

There were some women here with me who enjoyed the clip- stating how pretty the model was.

September 25, 2013 at 6:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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vinceGortho

Seriously?!? Commenting on how pretty the model was? Oh well that's ok, as long as the girls in the room keep their opinions to how one another look and leave the technical talk to us more intelligent men then that's fine.

And it was misogynistic. I know sex sells but you have to apply some artistry or at least some effort. This was cheap. But hey, at least it got everyone talking, I feel like I've made some new friends on the debate team.

September 26, 2013 at 4:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tom

Calling it sexist would be a stretch, "misogynistic" is just flat out crazy.

Hiring a model for a camera shoot, letting her wear what SHE wants, and filming her means the camera operator HATES women? I guess "Baywatch" was misogynisitc too, because it had female lifeguards in bathing suits. Oh wait, it also had men wearing only red shorts, so I guess it was misandristic, too.

It's funny how feminists are all in favour of women doing what they want, until the point when what women want to do is something the feminists don't approve of. Feminists = The Taliban of the West.

September 27, 2013 at 3:29AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Daniel

Great Rack. Focus.

September 25, 2013 at 4:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Edmund Dale Lloyd

I was really trying to see the dynamic range and image quality. Unfortunately all I could see were tits. ; )

September 25, 2013 at 4:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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this

September 25, 2013 at 5:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

LOOK.. AT... THAT... dynamic range...

September 25, 2013 at 6:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Nick

I sweat it's videos like this that make all filmmakers look like pigs in a way. I love beautiful women as much as any but when you get a 6k Dragon in your hand, can you please try to shoot something just a little cinematic. A girl with nice tits running at the the camera in slow motion isn't really the best way to showcase such an amazing camera.

Skin tones still have that nasty green haze to them and don't come out as clear as the Alexa but the highlights look wonderful. I can't wait to see the camera shoot something that isn't extremely cliche.

Might as well have just said "can you just giggle your breasts" and shoot it with a 14mm.

September 25, 2013 at 4:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Oh yeah, stop those men and their dirty sexual thoughts! Cut their balls too! #FEMMINAZI

September 25, 2013 at 5:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

Natt, he was commenting on the director's uninventive approach to filling his high-resolution frame with content, in a way that is potentially insulting to the heterosexual man's inteligence. The diametric opposite of an engaging narrative is lowest-common-denominator sex selling. Thus it seems like the creator of this piece is trying to capture his core audience's attention in the only way that is garunteed.

"Feminazi" is term used by people who are desperately afraid of others who appear to threaten the former's freedom to consume or express pleasure in/of activites that could be perceived as exploitative of women, by any party.

Be not afraid, my friend.

If you can't objectify a woman in a camera sensor resolution or dynamic range test, then when is it okay? Am I right?

September 25, 2013 at 8:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Darkslide

lol, indeed.

September 26, 2013 at 10:17AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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andy

And who is seeing this footage except for a ton of men and maybe a handful of women? The general public?

September 26, 2013 at 5:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Edmund Dale Lloyd

I swear*

September 25, 2013 at 4:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Freudian slip? Or just a camisole?

September 25, 2013 at 4:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tzedekh

oh beautiful Oslo, love the look

September 25, 2013 at 4:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Chet Callahan

A little confused - maybe because I've never graded footage from a recent RED camera. But regarding the purported superior handling of highlights:

- While there's no apparent clipping, the top of the gamma curve seems squashed. This is a problem that most digital sensors have, though. More so than other D-cameras, RED footage seems to have a consistently sterile look to it.

- Still problematic color space, particularly throughout the tonal range. RED footage has always looked pasty and muted. They've focused almost exclusively on resolution at the expense of every other aspect of image quality.

I'm with Adam J McKay, though - nothing to see here, folks, keep moving!

September 25, 2013 at 4:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ross

Maybe its just me but I just haven't been wowed by any of the new dragon footage. It's just not looking leaps and bounds over regular epic mx footage to me for some reason.

September 25, 2013 at 4:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jacob

I want to see a test with practical lighting. Im not interested in how good it performs under perfect settings (outdoors, magic hour) I want to see how well a camera performs under stressful situations. How does the camera handle shadow details? What's the "noise" look like? Not for anything but most cameras including a few DSLRs look fantastic outdoors or in a controlled lit environment.

September 25, 2013 at 4:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anthony Marino

Some people have all the no taste.

September 25, 2013 at 4:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ant

what is up with red fanboys and shooting scantly dressed women? there seems to be some kind of "machismo" that a lot of red owners have.

September 25, 2013 at 4:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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david

That's kind of a stretch there...first, there are thousands and thousands of Red users out there, making a broad generalization based on two or three of those users is silly, period. Second, these kind of videos come out every time a new camera comes out...it happened with the BMCC, it happened with the Sony F3, it happened with the Panasonic AF100, ect.

September 25, 2013 at 5:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gabe

Tell that to Michael Bay or people shooting Perfume and ads like that. Even hardcore 35mm film guys are red fanboys too, right?

September 25, 2013 at 5:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

Do you remember that absurd C100 lauch video? Geez. It's not just Red.

September 25, 2013 at 6:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ant

And for mostly male viewers, that is a problem why?

September 25, 2013 at 10:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Markus

Watch this with a fairly open mind and you will see why. Great film, amazing cinematography, shot on 65mm film. You tell me if it looks like the Dragon footage you have seen so far. Kill two birds with one stone. Understand why exploitation and lust for excess is an issue and enjoy some of the best Cinematography you will ever come across.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icIv7nJqjuQ

September 26, 2013 at 5:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Guy - "Hey babe, I got this new camera. Throw on your skimpiest outfit and I will film you at 96fps and then upload it".

Girl - "OK, anything else?"

Guy - "Nah, I only feel like putting 2.4% of my creativity into this. Wouldn't want to over exert myself or anything. You free tomorrow? It will take like 20 minutes!"

Seriously though. Is RED shifting their focus from the Hollywood market to the seedy under belly of late night cable? If so, bravo.

September 25, 2013 at 4:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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this too

September 25, 2013 at 5:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tyler

You seem to know alot about pornography industry, mister. Is that you, Ronny Praeger, filmmaker?

September 25, 2013 at 5:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

Man created the camera to take pictures of Woman.

Bless these filmmakers - I was getting tired of those horrid test shots of whatever happened to be on the desk at the moment.

September 25, 2013 at 5:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Yeah, it took so much more creativity to shoot what was under the desk at the moment. HEY-OH!

September 25, 2013 at 5:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hey, is that a 6K Red in your pocket ...

September 25, 2013 at 5:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Uh, what step you talking about? Its 9k and 1/2!

September 25, 2013 at 6:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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vinceGortho

Could have been any camera with a significant bitrate

September 25, 2013 at 5:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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nanno

6K makes pristine 4K debayer (3-chip, CCD fanboys with their "b-b-but this isn't real 4K!!!" or whatever - go away). Plain and simple. F65 did it with "8K sensor", Red does it with 6K sensor in post. We're talking about images that are IMAX firendly.

September 25, 2013 at 5:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

The F65 only has an 8k sensor if you count the pixels in a weird way. It basically has a 6k sensor, although Dragon still has about 1,700,000 more pixels.

September 25, 2013 at 5:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gabe

Gunleik's videos are full of Euro nudity. Just check out his Vimeo clips.
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Off this, some bits are more useful than others. There's a night scene. There's an indoor scene. There's a weird yellow-green-magenta scene. I don't know if one wants to shoot a family drama with this but the US scripted TV landscape is littered with "edgy" lowlifes. Plus, a semi-surreal vignette might work as well.

PS. According to Red Shark, even Microsoft Surface can handle the Red files. Of course, if it's a 8:1 compression, then the file sizes are quite manageable for a lot of laptops and PC's.

September 25, 2013 at 5:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Yes, its a modest improvement from Epic but Dragon still screams digital. With the imminent release of a new Alexa I see no reason to jump ship. In fact, the most organic looking and pleasing images I've seen to date come from the Sony F65. Carry on ...

September 25, 2013 at 5:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mitchell

Sure did. What would you like to see?

September 25, 2013 at 5:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Joe Marine
Camera Department

I'd really like it if we could see a collection of different skin tones in the frame. It seems to me a lot of grades are done for making a single subject look good and I would like to see what a group looks like, especially if you can find subjects contrasting pasty white and darker black skin to push the dynamic range.

Second I would like to see a lot of human motion in the frame, like a marathon coming at you, a dance, or a mosh pit to see how faster motion holds up (not necessarily camera moving a lot though like the whip pan tests), but skin tone DR is most interesting to me in a test.

September 25, 2013 at 9:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Dan

a link to a vimeo page somewhere on the site otherwise whats the point. you guys make a big deal about being filmmakers but I see very little here. would think someone who made a point of telling everyone he bought a scarlet would be sharing work on regular basis - film site etc.

September 25, 2013 at 11:37PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jess

After a long journey to a visit dying shaman deep in the heart of the amazon, I was given a message from the sages dying breath. He knew we were coming. His ancestors had told him. He wouldn't take our western remedies and laughed at medicine as if we were children only imagining we could heal. He didn't speak to his family saying he would commune with them from the other side. Our electrical equipment turned off and on seemingly at his whim. Despite my years of training in the sciences I knew we were in the presence something supernatural

As the light was fading from his wrinkled face he pulled me close and whispered in perfect english, "Your ancestors want you to..."

I waited, sweat and tears pouring down my cheeks. He took one final breath and said as only a man standing between life and death could say,

... use google."

https://vimeo.com/joemarine

September 26, 2013 at 5:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Dan

basically nothing here. nothing shot on scarlet, no short projects, no test footage. seems bizarre that the focus on this site is heavily RED but the author doesn't use his camera. buyers remorse maybe.

September 26, 2013 at 11:51AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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jess

what does it say about resolution when the 2K Alexa from 4 years ago still produces an image comparable if not better than a 6K Red Dragon?

September 25, 2013 at 6:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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steve duncan

I guess it says you've never punched into a shot for reframing or stabilisation, added motion to a locked off image, created an edit from a single natural history or documentary 'one-off' shot, printed an art-print quality poster from a motion frame, never mind produced content for panoramic projection, or a dozen other reasons to capture high resolution... It's not the only thing we need but resolution IS of significance. 2k may well be enough for delivery in many scenarios, but all other areas of creative imaging seem to understand the value of over sampling in capture.

September 25, 2013 at 7:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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If you shoot in arriraw 2.8K, you're pretty well covered for most moderate to medium mucking about in post, be it reframing, stabilisation or added motion (if final delivery is 2K/1080 - which it almost always is)...

September 25, 2013 at 7:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Davíð

Tell that to natural history guys shooting for a 4k deliverable due to hit screens in several years' time when UHD will be ubiquitous.

September 26, 2013 at 3:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Have you tried shooting in ArriRaw? Codex is not cheap.

September 26, 2013 at 11:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Will

Am I weird because the most interesting thing for me in the first video was trying to find out what her tattoo said...?
Screaming sexism on the other hand is a tad hypocritical, considering ruffly 90% of all video content is. One would have to literally stop watching movies and TV or constantly state the fact like a broken record...

Anyways, there is no wow for me in the Dragon footage so far, more like with "The Emperor's new clothes": Well it´s 6K, isn't it? It's got to be good! Can't you see?
F35(!) and the Alexa still looking better to my eyes...

September 25, 2013 at 6:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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SpartaBear

We shoot tests to learn about the camera, not to impress anyone. We went out on a limited timescale and covered off a raft of relevant technical scenarios... Without the benefit of this background people are throwing rocks at both the cinematography and the camera. Not very sensible behaviour. Skintone was a big issue- if we'd shot with anyone but a model with good skin our results may not have meant much. The slomo is there to make judgements about the compression compromises, the black swimsuit to check IR pollution. The dodgy handheld motion to judge jello, the cluttered background to check highest compression settings- several shots are parts of continuous scenes at a given f-stop transitioning from full sun to full shade. The indoor shots are extremely under-lit tungsten, some of the day exteriors had highlight and shadow detail you couldn't see with your own eyes. The very fact that people see the graded result as unremarkable is telling. Nobody's forcing anyone to use a given camera, but making judgment on h264 clips whose purpose is unknown to you is the wrong way to make choices.

Listen to trusted opinions, and use the gear yourself to understand it. 99% of my tech tests don't get shared widely... We should all do our own. Every smart person I know who's used Dragon is impressed, and making your own mind up the right way is only a phone call away. We'll spend time and demo to anyone as we have already for several significant organisations.

September 25, 2013 at 6:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hopefully this will cut the flow of verbal diarrhea. Seriously though, I haven't used a RED so this is exactly the kind of video I want to see when watching footage from a new sensor (even compressed for online). All the noisy chatter about creativity and composition makes me wonder if the commenters are serious about making films or just like to hear themselves rant no matter how deluded they sound.

If you can't separate the technical aspects of film making from the art and philosophy of storytelling and know when to discuss each appropriately then you probably need to take up another hobby.

September 25, 2013 at 6:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Space Captain

I had my first shoot on a RED Epic last weekend - I put it through it's paces with slow motion, high contrast scenes, a lot of handheld (no problem with 'jello' effect) etc... It's a great film making tool and according to many who have used the new DRAGON, it only gets better! I simply don't understand how anyone can talk negatively about something that gives the film maker such a wide range of options when shooting!

Thats not to say there aren't other great tools out there like the Alexa and F65 - but people shouldn't be so childish and bash something that's clearly pushing the boundaries.

September 25, 2013 at 7:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Lloyd

What a shitty camera test. Jesus man.

September 26, 2013 at 4:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Conrad

Thanks John and Joe. Just ignore the stupidity on this thread and know there are still plenty of people who appreciate it.

September 27, 2013 at 12:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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We shoot tests to learn about the camera, not to impress anyone and certainly not out of machismo or misogyny. We went out on a limited timescale and covered off a raft of relevant technical scenarios... Without the benefit of this background people are throwing rocks at both the cinematography and the camera. Not very sensible behaviour. Skintone was a significant talking point- if we'd shot with anyone but a model with good skin our results may not have meant much. The slomo is there to make judgements about the compression compromises, the black swimsuit to check IR pollution. The dodgy handheld motion to judge jello, the cluttered background to check highest compression settings- several shots are parts of continuous scenes at a given f-stop transitioning from full sun to full shade. The indoor shots are extremely under-lit tungsten, some of the day exteriors had highlight and shadow detail you couldn't see with your own eyes. The very fact that people see the graded result as unremarkable is telling. Nobody's forcing anyone to use a given camera, but making judgment on h264 clips whose purpose is unknown to you is the wrong way to make choices.

Listen to trusted opinions, and use the gear yourself to understand it. 99% of my tech tests don't get shared widely... We should all do our own. Every smart person I know who's used Dragon is impressed, and making your own mind up the right way is only a phone call away. We'll spend time and demo to anyone as we have already for several significant organisations.

September 25, 2013 at 6:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Yeah okay face and skintone, check, IR pollution, check, compression, check, latitude, check. Fair enough!

What was the rationale behind the cleavage?

September 25, 2013 at 6:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ant

Seriously? We booked a model, no wardrobe budget, no makeup artist, 'bring what you have'... We should have told her to cover up? I can't please everyone....

September 25, 2013 at 6:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Yeah, seriously. When you shoot a nearly naked woman running in slow motion for your camera test don't be surprised when people call you a misogynist.

September 26, 2013 at 6:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ant

He should have ordered the model to cover up.

Can't have silly girls thinking for themselves...

September 27, 2013 at 3:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Daniel

Internet Whiteknight pls go

September 27, 2013 at 3:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

Gees, people like Luke Neuman, Shawn and Tom really are unbelievable for bashing RED as 'misogynistic' or 'sexist'..if you don't like to look at beautiful women in 6K (or beautiful girls at all for that matter) please do not waste our time posting such childish nonsense. Nothing about these tests or RED is wrong, and nothing is wrong with dudes who enjoy the female body. Get over your pompous 'holier than thou' attitude - because you feel guilty about getting turned on from a nameless chick - instead of your own girlfriend (if you have one). RED RULES!! So does NFS for posting this amazing footage!!!

September 25, 2013 at 6:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Joanathan

When RED makes claims like "it's comparable to 65mm film" and then doesn't deliver with the most cinematic thing your eyes have ever seen, there's going to be some disappointment. They hyped this thing up as much as they could and then have fumbled the release a bit. My gripe is more to do with the lack of cinematic flare in the tests than it is with the actual content. Anyone with access to a phone and $100 could get a model for a day. I think we all wanted to see something like "Crossing the Line" by Peter Jackson (promo film for the RED One) or "Loom" (by Ridely Scotts son for the RED Epic).

I may not personally agree with the content chosen for the test but that's not the reason I (and others) are a bit let down. The footage from the camera isn't comparable to 65mm film and if the camera CAN in fact do that, we haven't seen it in these first few test videos.. Very few people I have talked to are blown away by what they have seen so far. So why release test videos? Why not commission a short film by a big Director to meet the expectations they themselves set? A camera can have all of the specs in the world but it means nothing if people aren't pleased with the final image. RED hasn't shown that the Dragon is worth $9,000 more than the Epic in my personal opinion.

September 25, 2013 at 7:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I'm with you - these don't look substantially better than a standard EPIC. In one case it looks substantially worse! There is better footage out there, but not public yet I guess. Be patient. It is great.

September 25, 2013 at 7:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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marklondon

Trust me, I know. RED is being very particular about what they release and when they release it. It's baffling.

September 25, 2013 at 7:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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It's really difficult to shoot a worthwhile short film spur of the moment. Especially when you have commitments to work already, finding the time, money, and other resources to complete something that you feel is up to snuff isn't possible for everyone.

I'm not condoning the content, I have no opinion on it, but I do understand (first hand) how difficult it is to have new, mostly unreleased tech in your hands but nothing narrative to shoot with it.

September 26, 2013 at 10:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kholi

Kholi, but on the other hand - shouldn't a "camera tester" have some form of a conceptual procedure a la Zacuto Shoot-out where develops a sequence with movement from the high-low F-stop/ISO spots, striped attire, uneven lighting, various skin and clothe colors, etc? It seems to be that Bruce Logan had the right idea of how to run any cam through its paces - coolly, rationally, uniformly. Why detract the attention away from the camera itself toward models, boobs, funky colors, etc? Do a bread&butter test and be done with it. That's what I would have preferred.
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PS. On the other hand, people should move away from ideas such as what is "filmic" and what isn't. I think the "Sweet" shots were very artistic and aesthetic. It remains to be seen whether the Red aesthetics is right for everyone. To me, F65 footage looks deeper and more real but I can see funky, graded footage used on something like the "Sons or Anarchy" or "Breaking Bad" (yes, I know it's over and was shot on 16mm to begin with)

September 26, 2013 at 11:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Yeah, again I'm not condoning or dismissing the content here, was just replying to what was said earlier in regards to shooting a narrative or something. It really isn't that easy, and some of the more mundane tests really aren't that interesting.

It also just takes a lot of effort, and you generally aren't getting paid to do it. The geek-glamor of being one of the few wears off very quickly when you've done it a few times, and you have to start bugging people to come out and shoot with you.

Anyway, just conversing on the topic, I will let you guys back to it! =D

September 26, 2013 at 4:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kholi

Right, I know this to be true as well. I have been talking to John and explaining to him exactly what I mean. I'm more upset with RED for building up expectations "comparable to 65mm film/18 stops", then taking forever to release footage, promising it was close, and then releasing these videos while sitting on others. It's a bit perplexing and it is a pretty big let down after they themselves raised the expectations so high.

If you're going to say it's as good as 65mm film, hire Ron Fricke to shoot a short test video and put your money where your mouth is! These tests are something I would expect from BMCC or Bolex. CANON has better test videos and that's saying something...

It has nothing to do with John, no doubt. I know how these things go, he is being told what and what not to shoot, he probably had notes on his first few ideas/drafts. That's how these things go. I'm tired of RED operating like a start up company. Get your shit together or stop making such bold claims. Let's see the 65mm film, don't just show us a pair of titties and expect us to shell over $9,000 for an upgrade. Jeez.

September 26, 2013 at 4:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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At first skim I didn't quite understand what the difference between shooting with any camera would be when showing first frames. I then realized that you do actually have a point: Nikon's D800 release footage for an example, a camera that primarily shoots stills.

Canon's footage wasn't so great, but they did apply the effort.

There's also the thought that, because Dragon was announced so long ago and production is at a trickle, they feel the need to get SOME footage out to the public versus none. It's a double-edged sword, and likely while Blackmagic hasn't released a single frame of 4K footage.

Best foot forward and all.

I think Dragon is capable, I don't know if the claims of surpassing film are accurate, but I think it's capable (then again, every camera is capable right?).

September 26, 2013 at 7:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kholi

Can someone tell me what this means? http://instagram.com/p/es2n7BKKl4/

September 25, 2013 at 7:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Largely, people fighting over the difference between the "in camera" and the "post".

September 25, 2013 at 10:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

Hi, just wanted to say there's better DRAGON footage out there. The stuff in this post is very average, content notwithstanding. None of this was exciting in any way.

September 25, 2013 at 7:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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marklondon

It's not so much that it's "wrong" or in and of it self sexist to do one camera test with a pouting, scantily clad woman batting her eyelids - it is, however, a thoughtless, banal and supremely unimaginative acquiescence to the sexist slant to the culture at large.

If I were a 15 year old girl trying to wrap my head around dynamic ranges, resolution and ISO's, a few of these camera tests might just make me question which side of the camera I was supposed to be on. Camera-tech and cinematography is such a sausage-fest already guys - wouldn't a few more ladies just be nice, if only for the sake of work-place variety?

But don't get the arguments mixed here; yes these shots are a fine stress-test of a myriad difficult situations/compositions, and serve there purpose well in that regard.

September 25, 2013 at 7:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Davíð

...their* purpose...

September 25, 2013 at 7:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Davíð

You were right the first time. It is very ordinary, and the 'lascivious gaze' is usually irrelevant to story and artistically bankrupt.
I do think we need to be less objectifying (or at the very least equal opportunity about it) in general.
I'd also like to stop the stereotyping/exploitation of homeless/at risk people. I see one more 'grime is pretty' short that is trying to be "good" but is actually exploitative and invasive I will hurt somebody (/joke). Let's see you begging and have a camera shoved in your face. If you don't have their permission, don't do it. Even if you do understand that that permission is significantly compromised. Think about it.
Overall, these are moral decisions photogs/filmmakers face, particularly people just starting out, and perhaps a long post about it on here would be a good start for a lot of people.

September 25, 2013 at 8:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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marklondon

Very well said.

September 25, 2013 at 8:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Shawn

>If I were a 15 year old girl

You sure talk like one, raised by raging feminists, no less.

September 27, 2013 at 3:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

I'm not seeing the dynamic range. Half the skies are burnt out to white when I wouldn't have expected them to be.

September 25, 2013 at 7:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Read Gunleik's post on Reduser at least. For some reason he overdid it for vimeo version. Look at the screengrabs, especially in flat RedLog. All the highlights are there, it just needs filmic curve and that's all.

September 27, 2013 at 3:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

The bottom line is cameras are made to shoot movies. Movies are made to make money. The average viewer is not gonna tell the difference between skin tones and color space or sometimes even resolution. This camera makes it EASIER for PROFESSIONALS with the right tools to color correct the footage and get natural looking skin tones which the average independent filmmaker will not be capable of doing because they don't understand the science of it. The 6k makes it easier to crop and frame as well as hold up in IMAX and 4k theaters. The dynamic range is obviously wayyy better then the MX sensor and right along the lines of an Alexa. The reason the Alexa is so pleasing to the eye is due to the rolloff filter built in that handles highlights. It's also a softer image due to the 2k+ resolution and they type of glass used on certain films. We are forgetting the fundamentals of glass and how it affects colors, images, sharpness, etc. The sensor isn't meant to do EVERYTHING. Some users will be better working with RED then others and will have the budget and resources to do so and that's who RED is catering to. This test was purely to show the range of the camera in an unscripted shoot and why not a beautiful woman? Beautiful women are often characters in movies and tv shows. What is wrong with everybody in criticizing RED? They have created a camera that shoots 14 bit raw with 6k resolution and superior dynamic range to anything else out there and we say we're not impressed? I've seen Alexa footage in the wrong hands turn out like shit. The only difference is the Alexa is in the price bracket where most people don't venture into unless they are doing major stuff. The RED on the other hand is widely more used to the prices and flexibility. Basically there are far more amateur RED owners/users then Arri. Use the tool for the job and tell stories, stop worrying about pixels and colors and all that stuff when it's hardly noticeable.

September 25, 2013 at 8:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Brad Watts

Thanks for the sanity check Brad. Frankly, I was instantly taken aback by the truck load of dumping going down on RED here. It never ceases to amaze me how some folks can be so overly critical regarding things they have no frame of reference for or enough experience to understand. I am by no means an expert; however, I have worked w/ RED footage that either I or others have shot for a couple years now. The one short coming I have started to notice w/ projects shot on RED is the lack of highlight retention that tends to sometimes give a sort of plastic look(Great Gatsby come to mind). Sure you can boost the ISO to get more stops above middle grey, but then you start getting more noise. One of the remarkable things about Dragon is that now you can have unheard of levels of highlight detail, w/ less noise, better color science, more light sensitively in general, more efficient transcoding.. it's not just about more resolution! ...and it's not just a sensor upgrade, it's a whole new camera. Is it for everyone? Absolutely not! Many users w/ limited time and budget restraints may honestly be better off w/ a C100. Thank You.

September 25, 2013 at 11:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thanks Brad, good point.

September 26, 2013 at 4:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Enrico

Well, to me RED Dragon is only about 6K resolution, as I don't see it has much else here going for it. Being able to reframe in a 6K image is of course a great relief to any sloppy DoP. The sloppier the DoP, the greater the need for more K, so to say..

September 25, 2013 at 8:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Cameras, especially flexible ones like the Epic, are not just for making movies. They're for documentary, natural history, fashion and more - all avenues where intentional cropping and reframing is extremely desirable. Open your mind a little!

September 26, 2013 at 3:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Sorry, I only make movies. For documentary, natural history, fashion and more, where reframing and cropping is extremly desirable wouldn't it be better with a square shaped sensor, i.e. like Hassleblad's 6x6 format. which is ideal for cropping and reframing? Your turn now, open your mind a little..

September 26, 2013 at 3:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Having a square sensor wouldn't really make that any better. You want to scale and keep the same aspect ratio, and since you're going to a rectangle anyway, you'd always be cropping the top and bottom. We don't really ever turn the camera sideways to shoot portrait mode for video like you might with a photo. That's what makes the square format more useful in my opinion, if you're cropping to vertical and horizontal rectangles.

September 26, 2013 at 4:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Joe Marine
Camera Department

Dang! I forget we're not all shooting 1.33:1 anymore.. ;)

September 26, 2013 at 5:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Interesting that you don't notice anything else about the sensor, just that it's 6k res. I'm assuming you either didn't pay attention, or aren't reading anyone else's comments about all the new features that make it more than "just 6k". That's up to you, of course, but literally this sensor is about more than just a boost in resolution, your opinion aside.

September 26, 2013 at 5:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Edmund Dale Lloyd

You're absolutely right. It's a stunning sensor, the best there is or ever will be, what was I thinking.

September 26, 2013 at 5:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Dude, really? If you can't see the improvements BESIDES 6K I would never hire you as a DP

September 26, 2013 at 8:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jake

Dude, you'd never be able to afford to hire me anyway.

September 27, 2013 at 7:08AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Ever heard about oversampling, little idiot?

September 27, 2013 at 3:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

You surely seem to need all the oversampling you can get.

September 27, 2013 at 3:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Stop being so ridiculous.

September 27, 2013 at 4:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

I'm so tired of elitist DOPs complaining that only lazy DOPs reframe in post. A higher resolution gives one more options in post, re-framing is one of them. I'd rather have the option than not. Stop trying to sound like you're above everyone and accept that 6k is an advantage. Fincher reframes in post. You know? That director that actually makes movies rather than spending time on forums trying to sound big time.

And saying that the Dragon doesn't have more going for it than the high resolution is.... well... uninformed.

September 27, 2013 at 12:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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vanlazarus

You're quite right, as usual.

September 27, 2013 at 7:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Not a DP... a TROLL!! Get him RED Dragon!!

September 27, 2013 at 9:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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RJ Blooks

Yeah, everyone with a different opinion is a troll, or were you just talking about yourself?

September 28, 2013 at 1:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Love this website but come on, guys, what's going on here? The sooner people have to register and use their real names on these talkbacks the better.

September 28, 2013 at 4:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Will Gilbey

Yes, Will, I think so too. Just because I don't see any stand out advantages from the new RED Dragon, compared to what's readily available, other than 6K, there's all sorts of judgement thrown around here. Suggesting that I have no idea of the most basic stuff like reframe, crop and oversampling, etc, which I of course do, like everybody else. It's not rocket science, is it?

I just don't see an image produced by the Dragon that blow me away. That's all.

September 28, 2013 at 6:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Nothing to do with Red Dragon - you are behaving like a child. I'm guessing you wouldn't be doing that if you had to register or use your real name.
"Dude, you’d never be able to afford to hire me anyway."
Prove it.

September 28, 2013 at 7:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Will Gilbey

Yeah, sorry, I do tend to drop to the same level. Prove it? If I'm not interested in the project, I'll ask for at least $10.000.000, hence he wouldn't be able to afford me. Would I be worth it..? That's another question.

September 28, 2013 at 9:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kent

Hi Kent,

Could you direct me to the movies you've shot? Where are pages on the internet where I can read about you?

September 28, 2013 at 5:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Of all things to complain about, the model?!

Leave it to NFS readers

Footage looks great but I'm holding out to see some cinematic footage, narrative style work. Proper lighting, grading, set design, acting etc. Thats gonna be fun to see, how the footage helps us indulge in the story.

September 25, 2013 at 8:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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carlos

RED footage does not look cinematic in the traditional film sense. it's a great tool for films with alot of digital FX and CGI. it's biggest proponents use alot of CGI. shooting an indie drama with a RED is just stupid.

September 25, 2013 at 8:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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ishoot720p

Well you basically uninformed. There's basically no big advantages to shoot on Red for visual effects. Indie drama is probably one of the main clients for Red, mostly because of the camera's affordability. Dude, you should start checking stuff out there, so many films shot on Red that looks really good.

September 25, 2013 at 9:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Marcus

no film shot on red has ever won a major award.

September 25, 2013 at 11:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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ishoot720p

Jeez

September 25, 2013 at 11:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Marcus

The Social Network was shot on Red One and won 3 Oscars

September 25, 2013 at 11:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Luke

EXACTLY...it comes down to the look you're going for. People who say RED is only for FX or Sci-fi must not be paying attention. Go on the RED site and look at the movies...Great Gatsby looked incredible IMO. All shot on EPIC.

September 25, 2013 at 11:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Brad Watts

best editing, screenplay and soundtrack? what does this have to do with the Red. i'm refering to best cinematography, and best film.

September 26, 2013 at 10:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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ishoot720p

Just recently:

Netflix Original Series House of Cards was nominated in 9 categories and won for Outstanding Cinematography for a Single-Camera Series. Creator David Fincher won Directing for a Drama Series as well.

Behind the Candelabra — which was nominated in 15 categories — won for Miniseries or Movie. Its director, Steven Soderbergh, won Directing for a Miniseries or Movie. Lead actor, Michael Douglas won Outstanding Lead Actor In A Miniseries Or A Movie for his performance of Liberace. The film also won for Outstanding Single-Camera Picture Editing for a Miniseries or a Movie.

Macklemore and Ryan Lewis took home MTV Video Music Awards for Best Hip-Hop Video and Best Cinematography for their epic video “Can’t Hold Us.” The video was shot on EPICs and SCARLETs around the world and has more than 113 million views on YouTube.

September 26, 2013 at 2:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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carlos

And speaking of indie films shot on RED that won awards....Winter's Bone anyone?

September 26, 2013 at 2:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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And what is your point, exactly? No film shot on a C300 has won a major award for Cinematography either... YET. Besides, we're actually talking about the RED DRAGON here, NOT the old Epics and MX series, right?

September 26, 2013 at 5:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Edmund Dale Lloyd

Yeah I saw The Kings of Summer recently, shot on Epic with Panavision Anamorphic lenses, Not only did it look amazing was also a great little movie, classic coming of age story....

September 26, 2013 at 4:13AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I just watched that the other night. Loved it, thought it looked great too. I was surprised to see that it was shot on RED especially with Primo lenses, it seemed to me that it would have been shot with older anamorphic lenses, it had a very nice vintage feel to it.

September 26, 2013 at 8:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Matthew Rogan

This is an indie drama shot on Red with no visual effects, if you tell me this is stupid, you are out of your mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2DqFRsPrns

September 25, 2013 at 9:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Marcus

Looks very filmic to me...

September 25, 2013 at 11:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Brad Watts

The Canon 5d looks better than this.

September 26, 2013 at 4:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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AlexaMan

right. *sarcasm*

September 26, 2013 at 6:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Marcus

no, seriously. it's not much different than 5dmkii footage i've seen

September 27, 2013 at 3:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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AlexaMan

And the fact that you think Indie Films don't use RED cameras makes you ignorant of the facts of the Industry. I would assume you don't work in the Industry, because, if you did, you'd see almost nothing BUT REDs and 5Ds out there.

September 26, 2013 at 5:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Edmund Dale Lloyd

Umm, the fact that your screen name is "I shoot 720p" says it all. Bottom line is, if you know how to use it properly, red will work out just fine. Dragon seems to be simply amazing.

September 26, 2013 at 8:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jake

Since this site is fairly pro Apple/mac, (nothing wrong with it, I'm a mac user) I didn't think this would make it to being an article but I saw this is my jaw dropped a bit.
http://youtu.be/xUVzTywmNh4

Surface 2 tablet and the Red Dragon. Oi.

September 25, 2013 at 9:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Why is the "6K is easy" video converted to B&W? The model's eyes appear jet black which doesn't seem to be a good look in this context.

September 25, 2013 at 10:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Markus

It wasn't - our regular epic was working, the Dragon needed to be in shot, so I grabbed our Monochrome out of the safe. :)

September 26, 2013 at 3:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Oh and Holly's our editor, not a model. I guess I'll find out later if she's flattered or offended ! ;)

September 26, 2013 at 3:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thanks for sharing John! I personally love the look of the footage.

To everyone being a downer... How many of you have actually used a RED? Are you just basing your opinions off what you see on Nofilmschool and Vimeo? Go out rent one, test one, and show us some better results! It shoots a raw file, pretty sure you can do almost whatever you want with it!

September 25, 2013 at 10:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jeff Loewe

The look of the color in the eyes of the little girl in the first 10 seconds of the 'Sweet' video is fascinating. It is saying something about 6K.

I can only say hurry 8K!

September 25, 2013 at 10:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

It takes a lot more energy to be negative than positive. There's some tired commenters here.

September 25, 2013 at 10:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gene

Can't believe some of the comments on here. Complaining about the model? RIDICULOUS. First, they complained about JAY-Z and hip-hop/rap. Now they complain about some beautiful girl?

Not some of the most cinematic, mind-blowing images I've ever seen, but this is a TEST. What it does, it does well enough. Nice handling of highlights, skin tones, etc..

Funny thing is, it's GUYS objecting to this - Shawn, Luke, David, et al. Hmmm... what's up?

September 26, 2013 at 12:04AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Eric

I was raised differently than you, that's what's up.

September 26, 2013 at 3:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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So if men find attractive women interesting, they weren't raised well? Or have some deficiency in their character? Wow.

September 26, 2013 at 1:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Markus

I know, right? But we should get used to it. It's the new world order. With the PC police and vanguards from interest groups jumping at you the minute you say something that doesn't fit their worldview.

Can't appreciate a beautiful girl in a video without being REPRIMANDED by... other men? WTH happened?

September 26, 2013 at 1:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Eric

Nope, I was raised in a house that was OK with violence and profanity in movies but not sex or nudity. Nature vs. nurture. I'm kind of against exploitation of any kind though. Violence, drugs, profanity, and sex/nudity. What kind of comedian do you prefer? The one with the intelligent writing, great delivery, and solid stage presence or the one that just tries to be as gross as possible to get "shock laughs"? What kind of comedies do you like? Cleverly written/shot films or the American Pie movies? Are you a fan of the "Scary Movie" franchise?

It has nothing to do with the fact that there is nudity, it has to do with how it was represented. It was shown in an "American Pie" type of way and that isn't artistic or creative in ANY way. It's simply an un impressive "shock value" Dragon test video and I wanted to see something mind blowing. Tits don't blow my mind, I'm not 14 any more. I came here to finally see a decent RED Dragon test video and what do I get? Late night cable. AWESOME!!!

September 26, 2013 at 4:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I think I know what you mean but I also think you react a bit too extreme here.

September 26, 2013 at 7:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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hansd

Probably true! :)

September 26, 2013 at 8:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I like Zoolander.

And I welcome what you consider "exploitation" as subjects of my filmmaking.

September 27, 2013 at 9:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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RJ Blooks

Yes, you were! But I'm glad you're around to rep the sisterhood and protect them poor exploited girls from villainous and lecherous men like me! Holla, girl!

September 26, 2013 at 1:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Eric

Bro, go back and read my original comment. I was mocking the lack of effort put into the video more than anything else. I'm still waiting to see something appealing from the Dragon instead we get another random test video that looks like it was thrown together at the last minute and took 20 minutes to film. The problem I have with the Nudity goes way past film making and is a personal belief that I wouldn't discuss with a single person here. It's not the place.

September 26, 2013 at 4:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ok then. Sounds like the problem with nudity (what nudity? She's wearing a bathing suit. Should she wear a turtleneck?) is your own issue - don't take it out on the sensor. It's still in its infancy and will get thorough tests in due time. Some filmmakers have gotten their hands on it. TRANSFORMERS 4 most likely won't be a threat to CITIZEN KANE, but visually, I'm pretty sure you'll be able assess what Dragon does and doesn't do well. Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on the upgrade.

September 26, 2013 at 7:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Eric

I'm not taking it out on the sensor, I'm taking it out on RED. Claim it's comparable to 65mm film and that will happen. Let's see a release video to back up those claims.

September 26, 2013 at 8:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I dunno man, seeing a 4k projection is pretty breathtaking.

September 28, 2013 at 12:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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What!? No 6k x-ray vision? Boo... very boo...

September 26, 2013 at 12:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Yuri Deklas

One thing John's videos don't address is why he is wearing a T-shirt that looks like a huge body tattoo.

September 26, 2013 at 1:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Rob

Listen to me when I tell you about camera tech. Do not follow my fashion tips ;)

September 26, 2013 at 3:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Don't worry, Tattoo Shirt, I won't. ;)

September 26, 2013 at 5:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Edmund Dale Lloyd

What I find funny, is people aren't complaining about the camera itself but the artistic decision of the director/DP that shot those images.
"The highlights are burned"
"The colors are horrible"
Don't blame the Dragon, blame the guy who couldn't give a shit about exposing properly.

September 26, 2013 at 2:55AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hubert

Concentration is when you...OH, BOOBIES!

September 26, 2013 at 5:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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hansd

the first video tells us that the RED DRAGON is Not Just About 6K Resolution!! it's about BOOBS!

September 26, 2013 at 5:55AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Mario

Still seeing a bit of that unnatural sheen on the still. They need somebody that knows how to correct this.

September 26, 2013 at 6:51AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Me

Yes I am here for the boobs too!

September 26, 2013 at 8:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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David Martin

is this a joke. 6k for the indie market? dragon? have fun editing on 6k.
i agree. 6k is only good for boobs

September 26, 2013 at 10:24AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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filmrealist

I expect my brazzers subscription to be shot entirely in 6k. And darn it all to heck; those highlights better not be blown

September 26, 2013 at 3:03PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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porn in 6k will be awesome

September 26, 2013 at 4:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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filmrealist

passion hd is shot on red

September 26, 2013 at 6:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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john jeffries

You don't do much post do you? I thought not. Typical uneducated inexperienced comments. Red is so easy to post, people who say different really stick out to us in the know. Why so afraid?

September 26, 2013 at 8:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jake

Well, the new RCX do longer needs a rocket card for real time debayer. It uses GPU support. 24fps in full res 6k real time for playback and transcoding.

This means that as the Sdk is released, applications like premiere, and FCpX will eventually have real time or near real time performance.

Also, something no one seems to be talking about is that the dragon is now full 16bit end to end. This means pretty much full control in resolve or scratch. Grading 16bit material is unreal, the subtlety you can create is astounding. I expect this to be the same.

September 28, 2013 at 12:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Why does Red always have that flat almost bleach bypass look. Someone show these guys what a film really looks like.

September 26, 2013 at 10:55AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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AlexaMan

A lot of the time it's some shitty colorist. I've seen a ton of music videos, commercials, fashion pieces, short films and features shot on Red that look absolutely amazing. If someone fucked up exposing, lighting and / or in post - you'll get shitty results, sure. There's so much poor stuff shot on 5Ds, Alexas, Reds and yes, even 35mm that look horrible. Oh wait, why I'm even explaining this, you're just a fucking troll.

September 27, 2013 at 3:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

No, I mean pretty much most of the indie films I've seen on Red has that same bleached look. Even Amateur :-)

September 27, 2013 at 3:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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AlexaMan

The Game of Thrones porn parody - "MILF of Dragons", starring Lisa Ann and Alexis Texas, will be shot on Dragons and mastered in 6K. Actually.. it will be shot on the carbon Dragons so they can mount cameras to the performers. Cuz', you know, with that 1 pound difference it is now possible.

September 26, 2013 at 3:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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bob

Is the Red Dragon available ?

I visited red.com netstore and it seems you can not buy it.
I thought that Red guy said that you could get it at the very beginning of September.

I also thought about posting a example how you should do a camera demofilm, but last time nofilmschool admins sensored my post with the same link, so... Just search Vimeo for latest work from "EarthBelow FIlms". No naked ladies there.

September 27, 2013 at 10:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Juhan-i

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