January 6, 2014

LaCie Announces 4K-Ready Little Big Disk Thunderbolt 2 & Wi-Fi Hotspot ‘Fuel’ Drive

LaCie is bringing the thunder with two new drives: the 4K-ready Little Big Disk Thunderbolt 2 and the $200 1TB Wi-Fi Hotspot Fuel drive. The new Little Big Disk makes it one of the only Thunderbolt 2 capable drives on the market right now, making it really appealing for filmmakers who are making the leap to 4K this year. Read on for the full specs and details on availability.

As a recent MacBook Pro Retina owner, this is exactly what I've been waiting for. There aren't many Thunderbolt 2 drives out there yet, and I'm glad that my go-to brand LaCie is joining the party. According to intel, Thunderbolt 2 can reach speeds of 20Gbps in both directions, and the LaCie Little Big Disk Thunderbolt 2 boasts up to 1,375MB/s. LaCie opted for PCIe SSDs, which are 75% smaller, 91% lighter, and up to 2.5 times faster than SATA SSDs. This makes the new LBD an ideal option for 4K video editing.

LaCie Little Big Disk 2

Specs on the Little Big Disk Thunderbolt 2:

  • 2x 500GB PCIe Gen 2 SSDs in Raid 0
  • 1,375MB/s via Thunderbolt 2 connections
  •  "Whisper quiet" Dual Thermoregulated fans
  • JBOD support
  • Available Q1 of 2014
  • Price TBA

LaCie Fuel 1TB

Specs on the LaCie Fuel:

  • Creates its own Wi-fi network
  • Stream to iPads, iPhones and Apple TVs via Apple Airplay
  • USB 3.0 connection
  • Stream to up to 5 devices at a time through the iOS / Mac Seagate Media App
  • Lasts 10 hours on a single charge
  • Available 'soon' for $200

The main complaint of LaCie's previous Little Big Disk was that it was too loud, so we'll have yet to see what kind of noise the Thunderbolt 2 version makes. Either way though, we're looking at an extremely fast and compact solution for 4K workflows.

Are you looking forward to these new drives? What kind of work would you utilize the Fuel's Wi-fi hotspot for? Tells us what you think in the comments below.

Links:

 

Your Comment

51 Comments

Wow, 4K marketing for hard drives now. Im laughing my ass off here!

January 6, 2014 at 6:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Tim

+1

January 6, 2014 at 9:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Marcus

I agree the 4K bandwagon marketing scheme is nauseating, but the fact remains that more and more filmmakers will be making the move to 4K acquisition this year. 4K can be intimidating to an indie filmmaker, so I'm glad a lot of companies are catching on and making it feel easier to get into. I haven't had the hardware necessary to deal with 4K until just 2 months ago.

Some people just want the bottom line: "What drive can I edit a 4K project on?" The marketing scheme here is actually pragmatic as well.

January 7, 2014 at 1:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

3
Reply
avatar
Micah Van Hove
Writer
director, producer, dp

This might just be my experience, but I have had THE WORST luck with Lacie drives. I bought a 2tb fw800 drive a while back, and it died within the first month. I then had to PAY to get them to take it back, they replaced the drive. And then this one after 2 months needed to be swapped again for MORE MONEY.

Be wary of Lacie guys, I get that drives have problems, but there's no excuse for Lacie's awful customer service.

January 6, 2014 at 7:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Alek

same here, lacie sucks

January 6, 2014 at 7:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

1
Reply
roberto

+ 10,000000! - Lacie drives are utter shit, have been for years. I can't even begin to tell you how many people I know who have had them die on them. When I was doing post-production consulting I advised everyone to stay well clear of Lacie. I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole!

January 6, 2014 at 7:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply

The only Lacie stuff I had was given to me by work projects, and they still shit the bed. They do make wonderful paperweights.

January 6, 2014 at 7:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

5
Reply
Isaac

As a DIT who manages close to 8-10TB per shoot, per day, not including backups I agree on the LaCie drive. A major malfunction or let down every time. I started bringing my own raid to shoots since most clients cringe on prices for the GTechs and usually bring whatever they can find thats 3-4tb for under $300. I mostly do the delivery and backup dumps for them halfway through the day using my thunderbolt hub once all the major shots have been grabbed.

LaCie's stated speeds are never close to what they say on the boxes. Lots of free overtime finishing dumps. Ask me how I know.

January 6, 2014 at 8:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

8
Reply
Jorge Cayon

Hey, now that you mention it (though kind of off topic), I was looking for an external storage solution to work with and GTechs were a very recommended option.

http://www.g-technology.com/products/g-raid-thunderbolt

Any idea on how good (mainly fast, really) this particular product is, especially for editing multi-camera AVCHD/h264? I'm talking about 8 to 16 cameras. Thanks!

January 6, 2014 at 9:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

2
Reply

I just used three of these gRAID drives (in daisy chain configuration) for a job that I did last month. Black magic speed test puts them at 230MB/s I did not notice the speed going down across the drives. We also had a back up to the lacie (rugged drives) with the thunderbolt usb 3.0 hook up, that was averaging 40MB/s to 80MB/s unless it got hot then it would drop to 10MB/s.

It seems dumb to have a spinning drive in a thunderbolt drive (on the Rugged's), so I've been ripping those drives out and experimenting it with an SSD, so far so good, you void the warranty on the spinning drive but that's really not that big of a deal as it costs just as much to send one of those back as it does to buy a replacement 1tb spinning drive.

This new little big disk looks like it might do a better job of not bottlenecking on the thunderbolt throughput but I can't help but think to even get 1tb of storage it's going to be at least 1200 bucks and I bet it just barely hits over 1000MB/s

January 7, 2014 at 12:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Nick

Speed is king when it comes to editing. Aside from a good rig of course. I've used those on set before and they worked flawlessly for what I had to do. Although I wasn't editing, it did handle all the backups of media from cards and a few one lights for the DP and director. At the end of the day what kills me is the read/write speeds of the cards I'm downloading, not normally my drives.

Although the budget shoots I've been on have always brought LaCie drives and thats where I loose my cool as they are slow and tend to dismount with a few gigs left to go.

January 7, 2014 at 1:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Jorge Cayon

20+ commercials shoots in the last year or so - all used G-Tech drives. I've got a few LACIEs and they've not been too bad (though have had Rugged drives drop like flies) - but everyone I've spoken to in Post houses has had a world of trouble with them.

January 7, 2014 at 6:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply

I have like 8-10 lacie rugged drives, some for 3 years. I have used them in rather intense conditions in many outdoor locations in Europe and Africa and never had a single problem. Seems like other people had no problem as well with the rugged ones. Very different stories here!

January 7, 2014 at 11:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

1
Reply
Haroun Souirji

ive had two fail on me... granted, they lasted a couple of years.

January 8, 2014 at 6:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
jojo

I too have had many problems with LaCie drives. It has been a while though... A few years back I had a LaCie 500gb Porsche recommended for editing on the Mac workstations of the film school I attended (recommended by the school). The drive failed after a few edit sessions and I lost all my data/projects. I sent it back to LaCie, it took a very long time to get a new drive and I had to fight my way through in order to not pay for the new drive (very poor customer service I received), and the 2nd drive failed as well after a short time. I just got my refund and have never attempted to purchase LaCie drives again after having had these issues.

January 11, 2014 at 3:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Benjamin Chan

Funny, it's the first time I heard about a problem with a LaCie. I have one for years, like most of my friends, my uncle has two big ones for more than 10 years now: not a single problem.
I'm talking about the big ones, cause I have a small black one (than takes energy from the computer) and it's kinda dead now...

January 7, 2014 at 6:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

3
Reply

if this is a "4k" drive your'e gonna need more than 1tb.

January 6, 2014 at 7:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
apples

Exactly! I don't understand what a 1TB hard drive is for (unless you edit 1min projects), I mean, I have 1TB of SSD in my macbook pro for my apps and for small fast edits, but I need >4GB SSD/hybrid/fusion solutions to even consider 4K editing...

January 7, 2014 at 9:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

4
Reply
Michael

Maybe there's a pill for the 4k phobic.

January 6, 2014 at 7:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

1
Reply
AAiM

Am I missing something? What is the point of the FUEL? Is it just to drag around wireless storage so that you have all your movies and music with you for your iPhone? That's a pretty thin market segment if you ask me, especially with so many cloud options available. And frankly, if you're out in the woods camping and there's no cell phone reception then maybe you should just, you know, ENJOY THAT.

January 6, 2014 at 8:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
John K.

This guys are obsessed with 4k. I go to you tube and look for music videos, short films or quality work shot with the MBCC or the MBPC and I see a few videos. 2 or 3 of them really good, but tons of comparisons. This camera vs this other, vs, 5DII, vs iPhone, vs iPhone 4s, vs go pro…

We have the best and affordable options ever to shoot digital cinema, but we are not telling stories or creating amazing films. Is 4k the answer?

January 6, 2014 at 8:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Ruben

So true! People (including me, at least a bit) are obsessed by technology, like if you have the right camera you'll make a great film. Making a film begins by writing it, but it seems many people have forgotten that.

January 7, 2014 at 6:13AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

1
Reply

No..4K is not the answer. It's just the next step.
If it's free people will take 4K over 2K. But
visually there is no difference between them.
Be thankful people shoot only comparisons...
it would be very painful if they shot narratives.

January 6, 2014 at 9:06PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
sammy

FWIW, there are a lot of news coming out of CES (officially starting tomorrow, I guess). The new nVidia chip is huge, the 2014 Samsung TV lineup (no new OLED's, plenty of 4K), new 4K streamers, new Nikons, etc.

January 6, 2014 at 9:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

4
Reply
DLD

I guess I must be a lucky SOB, I've been using my Lacie 5 TB Raid set-up for a number of years now, and it keeps on keeping on. Were they at one time in the past good?

January 6, 2014 at 11:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

1
Reply

Yeah, these comments are actually surprising to me too. I've used almost exclusively LaCie drives my entire life and never had a drive fail. I have FireWire 400 drives that still work flawlessly. Getting harddrives sort of always seems like gambling though.

January 7, 2014 at 12:17AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
avatar
Micah Van Hove
Writer
director, producer, dp

I can only comment on their Rugged External drives but I have never had any problem with those and I use 8 of those, some for more than 3 years.

January 7, 2014 at 5:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Haroun Souirji

We've used 3 Lacie Rugged drives (FW800 and USB 3.0) and a Lacie Little Big Disk (Thunderbolt). The Rugged drives have been performing without a hitch. I had issues with the LBD but the replacement has been flawless for the past year and a half.

January 7, 2014 at 5:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

1
Reply
Oliver

I'm getting one

January 7, 2014 at 4:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
DIO

I've had a few friends have problems with a few Lacie producs and others who love them. I see Seagate is buying Lacie as well. let's hope that purchase will fix the quality issues

January 7, 2014 at 7:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Nigel

I use G-Technology's for the most part, but my LaCie Rugged Thunderbolt1 SSD drive has been reliable for a year now. It"s great for traveling. I'm going to buy a second one in a larger size. Maybe the ones with the spinning drives are the ones with problems.

January 7, 2014 at 10:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Mel

I have 8 1 terrabyte Lacies and have never had a problem I. 5 years of using them to make weekly TV show. The ruggeds on the other hand...

January 7, 2014 at 12:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Richard Wilcox

Same here Richard. I have a rugged 1tb and it's great for keeping footage on the go to work in between the studio and home.

January 7, 2014 at 1:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply

Hmmm.. Now if Fuel had a CF card slot and the app played back H.264 (which it probably already does), it could do with a great on-set backup & review station. Card -> Fuel -> iPad

January 7, 2014 at 12:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

2
Reply

Or if the USB3 slot would support plugging in a card reader..

January 7, 2014 at 12:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply

Love the concept behind the fuel drive. Pretty cool interaction with mobile devices and storage. Definitely a fun pickup for people who like to have their content easily accessible but without having to drag around a laptop and other drives. Cool Cool.

January 7, 2014 at 1:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

1
Reply

I'm trying to figure out what the purpose of the gratuitous butt shot at 0:23 in the "Fuel Drive" spot is, and why they felt the need to make that their preview image for the video?

January 7, 2014 at 8:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply

I have had MANY problems with LaCie drives... but this new enclosure is Thunderbolt 2 to dual SSD in RAID. I don't know any other manufacturer that has this product. Yes, dual 500s for a total of 1TB is small.

Next up with be 4-bay SSD enclosures.. with the key Thunderbolt 2 connection.

January 9, 2014 at 1:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Derek McCabe

I enjoy reading these posts. I always learn something but I rarely comment because some of the reply's are so nasty and juvenile but I'll add my 2-cents worth on this one. I've used LeCie drives since the early 2000's. Some died (usually after a few years of continuous use) and one I still own is still working just fine and it's about 5 years old. All hard drives. Two years ago I bought a G-Tech hard drive. It works great but now a horrible noise comes out of it when the fan kicks on to cool it. I assume the fan is dying. Not sure what to do about that. I have not edited 4K yet but have never had any problems with any of my drives editing HD. I have many colleagues who own LeCie Rugged drives and we have one here at the office. All report they work great.

January 9, 2014 at 4:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply

I've got several D2 Quadras and haven't had a problem...most of my seagates and all of my toshibas except one have failed...but I know other people who have had horrible luck with LaCie. I think it's just the luck of the drawl (I mean between LaCie and G-Drive---all the others are crap). It's sort of like vehicle forums...you have people that have one fail, and because most people are over reliant on their vehicle and hard drive...it sort of feels like a catastrophe when one of them fails...so you suddenly hate such and such a drive or particular vehicle...and something else that has way worse failure rates feels way better cuz you got lucky. It's always a bit of a crap shoot.

As far as this thunderbolt 2 little big drive...Amazon lists it as $999!!! Wtf?? That's like a 10 time mark up cuz spinning hard drive D2 Quadras are under $100/GB. (I know it's a little bit of an apples to oranges argument, but not when you look at the big picture of various costs).)

When talking about prices like that...getting a red rocket card suddenly doesn't seem too expensive. ...or getting a 2nd computer and just transcoding on set would be cheaper. Really, how often do you need 4k...on set?

Oh, and what's up with that Fuel commercial? They're really selling to the narcissist market...they take a bunch of selfies and selfie videos and then drive back watching themselves in the Jeep on the way back to camp (that they *drove* to, even though they're in a Jeep!), and then go back to camp and watch more of their selfies! Damn, take some footage of the beautiful god damned mountains!

January 14, 2014 at 7:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
Daniel Mimura

I meant under $100/TB, not GB, of course...

January 14, 2014 at 7:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

4
Reply
Daniel Mimura

so what about the promise r8 pegasus?
i think thats what professionals will be using to edit 4k footage. its pricey but i think when it comes to 4k this is the kind of technology you will need to edit huge 4k files.
it has 8 bays and you can put it in raid anything. only 2 thunderbolt 2 ports.
i expect projects that are editied in 4k to be terrabytes.

January 16, 2014 at 12:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

0
Reply
david

Its because they use Seagate drives. I had 3 sony laptops die within 6 month of purchase of each because they used Seagate drives. I would't trust them in any equipment.

May 7, 2014 at 12:35AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

3
Reply
James

What you need is a raid solution that will fit 2.5inch drives in it. And it needs to hold a lot of them. You should get samsung evo 840. You should be able to get 500mbs from each of them. I would figure you could mirror each drive with a standard rotational drive for security of your files. To get the 17 hours of normal video required for 4k production you will need a total of 34 plus tb of storage. You could always get the western digital raptors and put them in a raid 10 solution. If you get enough drives that will be faster than this. But i could figure for most 4k video projects a 4ssd(1tb each) mirrored with 4 tb HDD for data security of the original files should do it. The read speed if it is a good raid card should just be slightly faster than sad perhaps around 600mbs which would be about 4k video in real time. As far as the final product, you should be able to trim down a lot of the unneeded video so i would sugest using half the storage above, but this time i would go with 4 ssd drives in raid 10 which would be over 1,000mbs write speeds and should (given that the hardware of the controller is of good quality) give you around 2,000mbs read speeds which will be ideal for clearing the drive storage to multiple alternate media sources at the same time once you are done. While maintaining integrity of the files.

May 7, 2014 at 12:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

0
Reply
James

What you need is a raid solution that will fit 2.5inch drives in it. And it needs to hold a lot of them. You should get samsung evo 840. You should be able to get 500mbs from each of them. I would figure you could mirror each drive with a standard rotational drive for security of your files. To get the 17 hours of normal video required for 4k production you will need a total of 34 plus tb of storage. You could always get the western digital raptors and put them in a raid 10 solution. If you get enough drives that will be faster than this. But i could figure for most 4k video projects a 4ssd(1tb each) mirrored with 4 tb HDD for data security of the original files should do it. The read speed if it is a good raid card should just be slightly faster than sad perhaps around 600mbs which would be about 4k video in real time. As far as the final product, you should be able to trim down a lot of the unneeded video so i would sugest using half the storage above, but this time i would go with 4 ssd drives in raid 10 which would be over 1,000mbs write speeds and should (given that the hardware of the controller is of good quality) give you around 2,000mbs read speeds which will be ideal for clearing the drive storage to multiple alternate media sources at the same time once you are done. While maintaining integrity of the files.

And its not that hard to compress 4k video, i have already figured out a way to do it. I would just like to get paid for my efforts.

May 7, 2014 at 12:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

0
Reply
James

I have already figured out a way to compress 4k video, to fit onto smaller drives and disk's. However i would like to get paid for my efforts. So until than its my little trick...-

May 7, 2014 at 12:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

1
Reply
James

LACIE RUGGED DRIVES USE SEAGATE HDD IN SIDE, if you replace them with any other manufacture they will work fine, the cases are great, but seagate can no longer make a good drive. They use to be a name brand, but now they are only using there name to distribute faulty drives. A lot of manufactures of the older generation still use them thinking they are of the same quality they where 15 years ago, but they are not.

May 7, 2014 at 2:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

0
Reply
James

Haroun Souirji on 01.7.14 @ 11:36AM
Seagate bought lacie in 2012, thats around the time that everyone had bad luck. You wrote you have been using them for 3 years, chance are that you do not have any seagate drives in yours and mage you where lucky enough that you received old stock if you purchased at a later date.

May 7, 2014 at 2:24AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

2
Reply
James

You can already get the enclosure, i would suggest getting a diskless one. It will be rather bulky given that they do not make it for 2.5 inch drives or even the m-saga connection. But the case alloone will run a few hundred (i know its ridiculous) each 1tb sad will run about 500, so to put it together your self it will be about 2700 with tax. With the one on the market you will need external power, sense they haven't made a case yet for SSD which would only use 1 watt of power for all four drives. You could perhaps if your savvy take the hardware out of a massive surfer and put it into a small enclosure designed to hold either m-sata or even 2.5inch bay sata, which will save a lot of space while you are out. Bu the way you know how you could fit about 4ssd in the space it takes to hold 1 standard desktop drive,,, you could hold several (ALOT) m-sata's in the space required to hold 1 2.5inch bay... Just a thought, if space is an issue each drive holds the same amount as there counterpart with the same 540-520mbs speed (read-write) They cost about 20$ more than there counterpart despite the fact they should be cheaper (less parts they must cost under a few bucks to make) ... I mean by that a 128gb chip cost only 20 something cents to manufacture. and its the smaller than a pinky finger nail. However the only way it will go down in price and make better drives is if your industry insist and speak of the price margin

May 7, 2014 at 2:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

11
Reply
James

http://www.seagate.com/about/newsroom/press-releases/lacie-announcement-...

Thats why i stopped buying sony computers, LACIE was a great company before seagate bought them, now they are horrible, sometimes you would see a seagate drive in them and they would die rapidly, but now they only use seagate drives, so there just expensive paperweights. Back 15 years ago seagate was a good manufacture. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248864-32-seagate-hard-drive-issue
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1vt14o/hard_drive_reliability_stu...
As far as I can tell they purchased Maxtor as well. so the only manufactures left are samsung, western digital, toshiba and intel. If you want to buy an enclosure for more than 200 dollars and they cannot tell you the manufacture of the drive, than frankly its not worth buying. Same with laptops, it should be told to the consumers with pried. And for those doing video editing that are trying to figure out which ram is better, lower latency or faster MHZ... Here is the equation (#CAS latency / (mhz/2))*1,000 the number you get will be in ns(nano seconds) the smallest number is better, the bigger the jump the better.. At low MHZ the jump in MHZ is very noticeable by percentage of change, as you increase more and more 100 mhz jumps no longer really make a difference. When the MHZ is small a change of 9 cas to 8 cas is hardly noticeable improvement as you go up in MHZ the change in CAS is highly noticeable, the equation is for DDR3.... DDR5 is the same equation but you need to multiple the MHZ by 2 instead of dividing it,, and once again the smaller that number is than the better..

May 7, 2014 at 3:04AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

0
Reply
James

Heres a good refrerense as to when they went bad, its from wikipedia but they are really good with datesJanuary 2010 - Seagate's Board of Directors approved changing the company's incorporation Seagate from the Cayman Islands to Ireland. The change was approved at a shareholders meeting on April 14, 2010 and the change of incorporation took effect on July 3, 2011.[14][15]

Heres a brief back history
May 2006 - Seagate acquired Maxtor in an all-stock deal worth $1.9 billion. Seagate continued to market the separate Maxtor brand.
2000 - Seagate incorporated in Grand Cayman.
Seagate Technology PLC is an American data storage company that was incorporated in 1978 as Shugart Technology. It is currently incorporated in Dublin, Ireland and has its principal executive office in Cupertino, California, USA.[2]
May 1997 - The High Court of Justice in England awarded Amstrad PLC $93 million in a lawsuit over reportedly faulty disk drives Seagate sold to Amstrad, a British manufacturer and marketer of personal computers.[8]
That should give you a good answer as why they are bad now.
They have acquired a lot of companies over the years, apparently even samsungs business in 2011, but i haven't heard of them going the route of the rest like when seagate acquired lacie and several others.
Essentially Seagate is trying to make a monopoly, they are trying to set the prices and get ride of supply and demand and the free market system, thats there business goal it appears, from all the reviews i have read there business goals cannot be to make good products anymore. The best bet i can suggest is make your own raid storage solution, every drive in the device will have a longer warranty than the device if built by someone and you can identify which Drives are still of good quality. The purchase of samsung by seagate said they have there HDD manufacturing but they did not clarify if that also meant there SSD, it is possible that by this they mean a factory which implies a few drives may be made by the old samsung factory and a few by others, which would express the 50% fail rate of there drives from factory and from my experience 100% fail rate within 6 months of use.

May 7, 2014 at 3:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

0
Reply
James