June 23, 2014

Dave Dugdale's GH4 Review Might Finally Convince You to Retire Your Canon DSLR

GH4 Dave DugdaleAnybody who has been learning the ins and outs of shooting video with DSLRs during the past few years is likely very familiar with Dave Dugdale and his excellent educational site Learning DSLR Video. Like the rest of us, Dave started out from square one, with a Canon T2i, a few lenses, and an insatiable hunger to learn anything and everything about the process of DSLR filmmaking. A few years later, Dave is shooting corporate and real-estate videos, and doing it quite well. While his gear has changed a bit since that first DSLR, he has been a Canon shooter since the beginning. Until now, that is. His 45-minute review of the Panasonic GH4 explains why.

Like I mentioned above, this review is a bit on the lengthy side at 45 minutes, but it is definitely worth watching all the way through because Dave has some excellent insight into how the GH4 stacks up against the 5D3 (and how the image stands up to a RED EPIC in terms of sharpness & rolling shutter). So grab a cup of coffee and check out the review. If you're interested in just one of the topics that he covers, check the list below, and jump to the appropriate time in the review.

  • 1:26 -- No Zacuto Viewfinder Required
  • 2:39 -- Skin tones
  • 3:05 -- Slow Motion
  • 3:45 -- 4K Detail
  • 6:09 -- GH4 vs Red Epic
  • 7:33 -- Everything not in focus at f/16?
  • 8:19 -- Sensor Size
  • 16:43 -- ISO Tests
  • 18:42 -- CineLikeD
  • 19:48 -- Dynamic Range
  • 20:40 -- Pushing the Grade
  • 22:05 -- Motion Blur
  • 22:50 -- Aliasing
  • 23:41 -- Rolling Shutter
  • 25:09 -- Focus
  • 26:22 -- Time Lapse
  • 26:37 -- Construction
  • 27:18 -- 4K Pan/Scan
  • 28:06 -- Stills
  • 30:14 -- 4K Advantages
  • 31:59 -- Things I Don’t Like
  • 36:14 -- Magic Lantern Raw?
  • 36:51 -- Sony A7S?
  • 38:07 -- C100?
  • 39:19 -- Conclusion: Why I am leaving Canon?

Like most of the reviews and comparison videos with the GH4 that we've seen so far, Dugdale's conclusions are quite similar. It's an incredibly sharp camera that blows all other DSLRs out of the water in terms of sharpness, especially in its 4K 100Mbps mode. That much is self-evident at this point. The GH4 produces excellent 4K images with the same workflow simplicity as other DSLRs at a price that is unmatched.

However, the fact that the GH4 looks better and is more versatile than the Canon 5D3 is only part of the reason that Dugdale isn't going to be a Canon guy any longer. In his review, he confirms something that many of us have suspected for quite a while: that Canon has no vested interest in adding new video-centric features to its DSLRs because it would essentially cannibalize their line of cinema cameras, all of which are significantly more expensive. Panasonic, on the other hand, has proven that they're extremely interested in continuing to innovate with their lower-end products, and it makes economic sense for them to do so since they don't run the risk of cannibalizing an entire line of higher end cameras.

Ultimately, Canon is going to have some serious work to do if it wants to maintain the DSLR filmmaking market that it inadvertently created 6 years ago. If they fail to innovate and compete with the likes of companies like Panasonic and Blackmagic for the low-end market, their DSLR's may very well begin to fall out of favor with the people who have been steadfastly relying on them since day one. Dave Dugdale might be done with Canon, but if these trends continue, he certainly won't be the last one.

What do you guys think of Dugdale's review? Are Canon DSLRs going to remain relevant in the world of independent filmmaking, or are they becoming a vestige of years past as cameras like the GH4 surpass them? Leave your thoughts down in the comments!

Link: GH4 Review and Why I am Leaving Canon -- Learning DSLR Video

Your Comment

185 Comments

I love watching Dugdale's reviews. A big part of it is that I use my camera like him doing some side work and shooting events and interviews. Plus the guy seems always relaxed - like the Bob Ross of camera reviews.

June 23, 2014 at 9:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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casey j

The Bob Ross of camera reviews! That's easily the greatest comparison ever!

June 23, 2014 at 9:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4538

Haha, i agree

June 23, 2014 at 10:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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It is so crisp and absolute amazing quality picture.

June 23, 2014 at 9:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Chum Reap

Hold on a second, Canon is, apparently, working on an entirely new sensor for the 7Dii.

link to story:

http://petapixel.com/2014/06/19/rumor-reliable-source-says-7d-mark-ii-wi...

I am absolutely certain it will be a 4k in video sensor as no camera manufacturer is stupid enough to NOT go to 4k from now on. But even 4K is only temporarily enough, as I am also certain lower priced 6K will be here soon.

For sure, Canon is late to the game and may have permanently lost clientele to the GH4, and soon to the A7s---even though the A7s has only external 4K recording---the image will still look better at 1080p than a 5D and one won't have to jump through all the 5D patch hoops.

Of course Canon has better still photography than both Panasonic and Sony.

June 23, 2014 at 9:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

The problem is that putting any kind of 4K video in the new 7D would kill all sales of the 1D-C, something which Canon probably isn't inclined to do, unless a higher-performing replacement for the 1D-C is also on the horizon.

June 23, 2014 at 10:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4538

You just might be right. But it seems like Canon's hand is forced to go 4K. It seems like everyone's hand is forced. Red really changed things.

June 23, 2014 at 10:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

I don't buy that. The 1D C is a walking timebomb as it is. Which is not to say it's a bad camera at all, I've never used it. But it's extremely high priced for most shooters and there is no way Canon can get away with not including 4K in other cameras just to protect a niche cinema camera like the 1D C.

Look at it this way. They probably only sell a few thousand 1D C cameras because of the price. Do they want to lose the potential sales of more consumer priced 4K cameras to Panasonic, Sony and eventually Nikon just to protect some speciality camera they probably don't even sell a lot of to begin with?

They are far better off putting 4K in consumer cameras and selling more of them. Camera makers have always made their bread and butter off of point and shoot sales, now that those are next to extinct their core camera business is their consumer DSLRs.

Canon will go 4K and probably the 7D2 will usher it in. The bigger question is, will that 4K be anything other than just a simple UHD spec bump so they can say that the camera has 4K shooting on it? Will it have any of the features we indie filmmakers really want that most consumers would have no idea to even ask for? That is where the potential gap between the DSLRs and the C series resides. Those little features that make us say "damn it Canon, why couldn't you have just put X on there, it would have cost you next to nothing to do it."

June 23, 2014 at 10:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I should also point out that the original 7D had better video features than the flagship 5DmkII when it first came out. Then the Rebel T2i got those features. It wasn't until the 5Dmk3 that it came to par with the rest of the lineup. The 60D was the fiirst with a flip out screen and the 70D got the new autofocus system before every other camera.

So based on Canon's history, they don't seem to care much about protecting their higher end cameras from their lower end camera as much as we may think.

June 23, 2014 at 10:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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...But Canon has their EOS Cine line of cameras to protect now ( C100/C300/C500 ), so it's unlikely they would bring 4K to their consumer cameras before the C100 or C300 cine cameras would have it.

June 23, 2014 at 11:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Guy McLoughlin

Guy,

you think they would make that calculation? If I was a big wig at Canon I would be concerned how 4K is the hottest topic in the video world, and, if I didn't have 4K as a given in every camera that comes out from now on (until 6K is the hottest topic, then would have 6K in every camera) I would be left in the dust and be considered out of touch with what is going on in the world.

I just can't see any way around Canon not needing to have 4K video in the 7Dii. They must also be planning to get 4K in the next generation of C100, C300, etc., too. The same has to be true of Nikon. Panasonic and Sony have already read the handwriting on the wall. Canon must have read it too. No?

June 24, 2014 at 12:22AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

True, but the C100-500 line are dedicated video cameras, whereas the 1DC and the rest of the DSLRs are photo + video. C500 shoots 4k, and the C100 and C300 have sharp 1080p (downscaled from the 4k sensor). 4k in the DSLR products would be a great step forward for Canon, without taking away the need for the higher line of cinema products.

June 24, 2014 at 12:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Henry

Canon wont have to go 4k for a while. THey don't need it in their 7DII. 4K is great but not enough people are watching 4k in their homes yet. So the C100/C300 are still good cameras that down-sample 4k in to crisp 1080p the same way you would do it in your editor. Who REALLY needs a 4k camera?

June 24, 2014 at 1:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

The biggest advantage of 4K at the moment is not its 4K output, the delivery system is not there there. Rather the biggest advantage of 4K is its huge advantage and flexibility in post when outputting to 1080p.

July 18, 2014 at 7:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Goryan

Canon could care less about that.

August 19, 2014 at 6:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Logan

Canon wont have to go 4k for a while. THey don't need it in their 7DII. 4K is great but not enough people are watching 4k in their homes yet. So the C100/C300 are still good cameras that down-sample 4k in to crisp 1080p the same way you would do it in your editor. Who REALLY needs a 4k camera?

What I'd like to see Canon do with their next gen C100/300 is add 10 or 12 bit color and more dynamic range.

June 24, 2014 at 1:21AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

I don't really NEED a car either. Bus and train work well too. Let's get past the point of saying we don't NEED 4k. Even ARRI is going to 4K, and apparently, 6K. They're doing it because they NEED to do it. Camera companies think it's needed----oh, but maybe not Canon. Who would come out with a new 1080p camera and think it will cause excitement in the market???? Seriously. Canon thinks that? I doubt it.

The horse it out of the barn: Anyone can see the difference when something is shot in 4K and downscaled to 1080p---it looks better than something shot in 1080p. And 4K tv's/monitors are coming down in price pretty rapidly. YouTube saw how good 4K looks and has made 4K available. At electronic stores people are sitting down, or standing, in front of 4K tvs to watch for a little while, not in front of the 1080p tvs. Canon needs to go to 4K video in all their cameras. Or, they can let Panasonic and Sony, and apparently soon Nikon, have all the 4K fun.

jus sayin

June 24, 2014 at 2:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Canon is also very aware of Magic Lantern. Even if they don't *officially* release a 4k though, their new technology will highly likely easily support it, and I would not be surprised to see ML hard at work. Personally, I love the color rendering of the C500. I have played around with BM's products and that would be my choice over Panasonic. Canon is also very focused on their still work. Panasonic would be my "in a pinch" camera.

Still a good test.
http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2014/06/blackmagic-cinema-camera/

June 24, 2014 at 4:53AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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RidingtheDragon

Great review, for the money and detail coming close to the RED Epic footages..... you just can't beat it......personally I think this is the camera of the year if you factor in what you get for the cost...... can't wait to get my hands on one.

June 23, 2014 at 10:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Al

That was one of the best reviews I have ever seen. He has a new fan!

June 27, 2014 at 2:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Allan Crocket

For moire: 2 videos showing how a GH4 in 4K has virtually no moire:

http://vimeo.com/94233203

from 3:27 to 3:46 in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Grj67XCUk]

June 23, 2014 at 10:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

It may sound stupid, but people are to used to know what a 50mm is in APS-C or Full Frame, but the numbers on MTF are totally different. Of course pros won't see it like a problem, but marketing wise, it's hard to tell people that the "normal" lens isn't a 50mm, and so on with all the others.

Personally, I'm still a very newbie student, and seeing this reviews makes me wonder if I should buy Canon lenses (actually owning a T4i) if MFT is looking this promising. I was looking to buy Rokinon Cine lenses, but this is making me wonder what should I do all over again :P of course I could buy an adapter later, but the lens focal distances I would need on MTF would be completely different I guess...

June 23, 2014 at 10:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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PabloW

A "normal" lens for an APS-C camera is a 35mm lens, NOT a 50mm lens which is a "normal" lens for a Full Frame camera like the Canon 5D camera.

You can also buy a SpeedBooster adapter that converts the GH4 2.0x sensor crop to 1.4x sensor crop, which makes it wider with shallower DOF than an APS-C camera. ( standard APS-C sensor format )

June 23, 2014 at 11:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Guy McLoughlin

A normal lens should resemble the focal length of the human eye: 43mm. Except you can't match the massive field of view of the human eye at that focal length, even on larger sensors. So defining a normal lens in relation to human vision isn't straightforward.

Still, if you are looking for a lens that represents objects' spatial relations in a similar way to the human eye that lens will always always have to be 43mm, regardless of sensor size

June 25, 2014 at 12:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Graham Kay

Well, to a lens designer, a "normal" lens for a given format is roughly the diagonal distance of the format. It has nothing to do with the human eye. But I could be wrong - it's not my area of expertise.

Years ago, Leica published an article comparing paintings to photographs taken from the same location. They found a 80mm lens was closer to what the paintings depicted. In my own work, I tend to use 85mm on 135 format, and 50mm on super 35/APS-C.

June 26, 2014 at 4:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ken Elliott

Perhaps, save your money for now and stick to a (or a few) workhorse lenses and rent as you need.
With the ever changing market and tight pockets for students, it would be wise to watch from the wings as the camera wars play out.

June 23, 2014 at 11:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Krispy

Cost may make you want to stay with Canon as a beginner. Canon can afford to drop prices on lenses, more accessories are targeted at Canon, and getting wide shots on micro four thirds can also be a pain. I currently use micro four thirds, and if I didn't already have a GH2, I would go APS-C. I still might in the future.

June 24, 2014 at 12:02AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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moebius22

Hey Pablo, if Metabones releases it's ef-mft speedbooster, then you'll get the exact same crop in 4k on the GH4 that you already do on the t4i. I have a t3i and a t2i and I've invested in some of those Rokinon lenses (which I really like, but honestly, the rebel series doesn't have good enough sensors for them to REALLY make a huge difference I feel). I'm getting a GH4 the second Metabones released that speedbooster, they just announced the bmpcc mft speedbooster, the active one for ef lenses, I can't wait for the regular one.

June 24, 2014 at 12:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Brennan

Thanks for your replies! I think I will stick to my desicion with the Rokinon Cine lenses. I like that they're not electronic, so they're kinda future proof in that aspect (I dont like the idea of that super expensive adapters). The Canon mount well... I'll stick to Canon cameras for now, then we'll see.

June 24, 2014 at 9:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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PabloW

m43 is easy to figure out. It's 2X. So you either double it or cut it in half.
So if you want the look of a 50mm you buy a 25mm. If you have a 35mm lens you really have something that looks more like a 70mm. Simple math to do in your head. Much easier in my opinion than the Canon 1.6x crop.

June 24, 2014 at 9:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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But it's not simple. A 2x crop on a 35mm lens only looks like 70mm on FF in terms of field of view, because the focal length hasn't changed. It still looks twice as wide in terms of how objects in front of the lens appear in relation to each other; it still looks like a 35mm lens, it's just that the image is cropped.

On a smaller sensor camera you can't get the z-axis compression that you do with larger sensors for the same field of view. So the look is very different. This is of course why 16mm film has a distinctive look compared to 35mm, and so on.

June 25, 2014 at 12:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Graham Kay

Right, but you can't change the size of the sensor so all we're really comparing is field of view.

June 25, 2014 at 1:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Sorry, but the field of view is all that changes. The focal length does not change the perspective - your camera position does. You can prove this to yourself. Shoot a still with a wide angle. Do the same with a long lens, but without moving the camera at all. Now crop the wide shot. It's the same, ea?

Most people think (and usually write!) that the lens focal length changes perspective, but it is a mis-understanding. If you put a wider lens on the camera, you tend to move closer. A longer lens causes you to backup. It is moving the camera that changes the perspective, but people incorrectly think it is the lens.

Ask large format photographers about this. Those guys work out the desired prospective, position the camera, then select the lens that gives them the crop they desire.

June 26, 2014 at 4:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ken Elliott

Actually, cropping the wide shot does change it - using a zoom lens compresses the background as well and makes everything seem much closer than it actually is. I use that all that time for different looks. This is the "z" axis compression he was referring to.

June 28, 2014 at 3:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Billy

I'd make sure you buy those Rokinon primes in a Nikon F mount, even if you're sticking with Canon for now.

Nikon is the best choice for your glass investment, being that it is the most versatile. Whenever I've been on shoots (that aren't using cine glass) Nikon is the top choice of DPs.

As the Canon mount is one of the more annoying ones to have to adapt, hence the delay in a Focal Reducer coming out. Is why from the start, before even focal reducers existed, I made the decision to base my lens collection around the Nikon F mount as the most sensible choice to make for the future.

June 25, 2014 at 3:29AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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For those not wanting to pay an arm and a leg for features, the Panasonic offers a compelling package. You could spend 5 grand for a C100, but for the price it's missing features that you would think a camera of that price should have.

June 23, 2014 at 10:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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moebius22

You can also shoot with the C100 in basically no light and get a serviceable image, whereas the GHx series just don't hold up at higher ISOs.

I think each has a good role, though, and if I were wanting to shoot lightweight and in reasonably well lit conditions I'd absolutely go with GH4.

June 23, 2014 at 11:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Swissted

If canon can't beat the panasonic's prices it won't matter what they do. Plus, Canon has a reputation for over charging and not listening to consumers on giving them features that they really want. Canon started the
(dslr video)revolution but has now fallen behind and seems to not care about maintaining a lead in that category. I'll be moving to panasonic and/or Sony.

June 23, 2014 at 11:05PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Actually, Nikon was the first DSLR to come out with video. Canon didn't actually add the feature until the second version of the 5D.

June 25, 2014 at 8:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Jorge Cayon

Hmm, so what does that make you?

June 23, 2014 at 11:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Stephen

Doesn't he know that the cool thing about a 5D is that's is full frame? And, it has the ability to have shallow depth of field? Geez!

June 23, 2014 at 11:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tim

lol

June 24, 2014 at 12:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

The GH4 seems like a camera that truly separates the wheat from the chaff. I've seen way too many terrible looking videos shot on the GH4, which are too sharp, screaming with aliasing and moire, and to me feel like they may as well have been shot on a Sony EX1.

That said, I've also seen some absolutely gorgeous stuff shot on it.

So, without having used the camera myself, the only conclusion I can come up with is that it's a much harder beast to use, but by learning how to get the most out of this bad boy, it will likely teach you to become a better shooter.

June 23, 2014 at 11:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ben Howling

Best comment re the GH4 I've ever read.
Its like all the Panasonics - if you're willing to learn your way around, they're great.
But initially - wow, you're going to get terrible stuff.

Anyway, all this will be moot shortly :-)

June 24, 2014 at 12:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon

Why moot shortly? Is there an easy to understand instructional series for the GH4 coming out soon?

Or, do you have something else in mind?

June 24, 2014 at 12:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

You are meaning the A7s is out very soon and it will make GH4 sales evaporate? The A7s doesn't have internal 4k recording so it's a 1080p camera that costs $700.00 more than the GH4. Yes, it has great low light. But no internal 4k that costs more than the GH4 with internal 4K will not make the GH4 go away. Or will it?

Or the "moot" meant something else?

June 24, 2014 at 12:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Depends if your wanting to go no budget or zero budget. Sony with a recorder will best the gh4 internal and add the recorder and sony will still win on low light, which if you've got no cash will save you on lights...

June 25, 2014 at 3:37PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Keith

That's NOT my experience. I own both a GH4, a C100 and some other video camera's.The GH4 is not hard to use, in fact I prefer it over my C100, The form factor is great (handy & small), the image is superb. Yes, the GH4 does have a ton of video functions, so that may take you some time to learn, but hey, that's why videographers want this camera to begin with. Even for point and shoot video work a camera like this couldn't be simpler. Low light and ND filters are the only 2 points where my C100 has some advantage. ND filters I can solve (attach an ND filter to your lens), so that leaves low light. And frankly the GH4 is not bad in that area, just not as good as the C100.

June 24, 2014 at 1:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Erwin

I agree. I have a C300, C100, and the GH4 (and a 5D3.) The C100 and 5D3 are going on sale. The C300 is long since paid so id rather keep that. But your comments stand up on the c100 or c300. The GH4 is a great camera, especially with a lens like the 42.5mm F1.2 Noctitron on it. Or any of those lovely Rokinon primes which I tend towards over my Canon L glass anyway.

June 24, 2014 at 6:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Paul

"The GH4 is a great camera, especially with a lens like the 42.5mm F1.2 Noctitron on it."

Man is that an awesome combination. Incredible image quality, bokeh, sharpness, and contrast even wide open and it completely eliminates the GH4's minor disadvantage in low-light AND you can actually pull focus on the damn thing wide open.

That's the sleeper. Actually, all three Leica's are nice and you could easily shoot a feature just with that set, and add an adaptor and Canon's killer 70-200 for the longer stuff should the story need it.

The combo is also lightweight enough that you can easily put it on the 5lb Movi rig.

June 25, 2014 at 4:22AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Erich Ocean

Shooting at 4k, there should be no aliasing/moire because the sensor is read out in full. Shooting at 1080p, there is a little more but the only competitors it has for lack of moire/aliasing are the Canon 5d and Nikon d5200/5300.

The detail levels are similar to the RED, which is generally considered as having quite a cinematic image. I think videoish images are mostly to do with the lighting and grading. The only reason a lot of people say they think the Canons are more cinematic are because they are very soft - like old films. However if you watch films shot on film today (Like Django for example), they are nowhere near as soft as that. Technology has changed for both digital and film.

June 24, 2014 at 7:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Seb

Not just the D5200/D5300, but also the D7100 and D3300 perform similarly well! (Sony A6000 is another one to consider: http://www.eoshd.com/content/12428/surprise-sony-alpha-a6000-video-mode-... http://www.eoshd.com/content/12822/best-small-camera-108060p-panasonic-g...)

I myself shoot with a D5200 (after starting out with the fantastic Panasonic GH1). Here is an example of something I shot recently with the D5200 (and a mix of Canon 5DmkII in it too): http://vimeo.com/94806693

June 25, 2014 at 3:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Thanks :) As it turns out, I have owned a D5200 for five months and an A6000 for a few days. Both great cameras indeed. Just lacking in a few things! Well done with your video :)

June 25, 2014 at 4:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Seb

I made the switch recently and haven't looked back.

The gh4 is the first camera I've had that is a pleasure to work with. Every time I go and shoot, I'm amazed at the quality it gives me. With the canons, I was always a little disappointed with the results.

If you're worried about shallow depth of field, don't be, get a 25mm f0.95 voigtlander and an ND filter. Also, at f0.95, there's plenty of light coming though for those dimly lit situations.

June 24, 2014 at 12:04AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mike Smith

that was awesome the gh4 looks better than the epic?/!1 ... imo

June 24, 2014 at 12:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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sebastian

Worth pointing out - the Epic isn't exactly a sharpness monster in its own right. The MX sensor has a lot of great qualities and I love a lot of things about the image - but matching up a downsampled image with a C300 (and I assume C100 by extension) will give a pretty noticeable sharpness advantage to the Canon.

June 24, 2014 at 12:28AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Carlos

Yes, the Canon 1D has 4K video. But has anyone been inspired by how it looks..... ?

June 24, 2014 at 12:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Canon should up the color bit depth on the 1DC to 12bit at least.

June 24, 2014 at 1:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

It needs something. That might partly do it.

June 24, 2014 at 1:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

I'll wait till Canon comes out with their retort to this camera.

Don't like that small sensor and the trouble it will have in low lighting.

If my old lenses could work without any big adapter hassles then I would have considered it.

June 24, 2014 at 12:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Isn't it called the C100/C300? Both have 4k sensors that output crisp 1080p, the same as you would do with a Red, Blackmagic, GH4

June 24, 2014 at 1:24AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

The problem is that a lot of people, myself included, don't want to invest in a 4K sensor alone. We want the output as well. The biggest letdown for me in regards to the C500 is the need for an external recorder. There's nothing wrong with external recorders if you're willing to throw on the extra attachments but a lot of shooters, once again myself included, want internal 4K, which is something that Panasonic was clearly forward thinking enough to add to the GH4. The GH4 definitely isn't the camera for me (only because I'm looking to leave all DSLR shooting behind in the near future) but the video features it has are very enticing.

June 24, 2014 at 1:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Coty

I heard something interesting why the internal 4K of the GH4 is 8 bit 4:2:0 as opposed to 12 bit 4:2:2 (which it could have been): it's intentional, for battery life, for taking more minutes to fill less expensive memory cards, and for lighter work flow.

June 24, 2014 at 2:06AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

But couldn't there have been a choice: shoot at 12-bit 4:2:2 but kill your battery in short order, or extend battery life and shoot in 8-bit 4:2:0?

June 24, 2014 at 9:05AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tzedekh

You mean a menu option that you could choose which you want? I don't know. That may have made it more expensive. M,aybe the $1700.00 price tag was part of it too.

June 24, 2014 at 10:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

I love Dave - I send a LOT of newbies to his site.
But this review is nonsensical, and irrelevant.
Its like someone who just bought a revved up Mustang trying to compare it to a McLaren. Yes, its just as fast. Now lets see it corner.....
If the GH4 works for you, that's great. Its a terrific camera for the money for a lot of uses.
But the other camera brands being disparaged here (love all the Canon hate - shake your fist at the moon while you're at it) have specific areas where they SMOKE the GH4.

Plus, and I really only come here to type this: keep your powder dry. There are LOTS of new cams to come over the next 6 months. And anyone who is delivering masters in 4K here is either lying, or doing it for kicks (or we've met).
By the time you NEED 4K, you'll be up to your waist in better options.

June 24, 2014 at 12:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon

Are you taking odds on what will be happening to the GH4 over the next year? Are you putting good money on those odds?

June 24, 2014 at 12:55AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

You're entitled to your opinion and are spot on with the majority of your comment, but calling his 45 minute review "irrelevant" is flat out incorrect by any definition of the term...

June 24, 2014 at 1:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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with all due respect, it sounds like you didn't use the GH4 yet. Once you see the 4K footage it produces, you'll be convinced...

June 24, 2014 at 1:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Erwin

Anyone who buys MFT, SpeedBooster or not, will always want full frame sooner or later.

June 24, 2014 at 2:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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wavydavygravy

No they won't!

June 24, 2014 at 4:08AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Joe Nanoski

I fully disagree with this, and in general Im sick and tired of this Full Frame talk. Get over it. I had the 5D3 and now shoot M43. Full Frame is not what cinema uses, aps-c is much closer and the GH4 isnt much off of that.

June 24, 2014 at 5:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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So called "full frame" is brilliant marketing spin! Putting in the word "full" in the terminology.

If anything is "full frame" at all for filmmakers, it is APS-C (which is rather close to Micro Four Thirds, and once you put a Focal Reducer on it, then m4/3 is even larger than APS-C!).

June 25, 2014 at 3:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon is habitually eluding to secret knowledge that for some reason he is only privy to, about as yet unannounced cameras. If he was anyone of influence or importance in the camera world he would not be a commenter on this blog. Pathetic.

June 24, 2014 at 10:22AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Posting using DLD's ID now hey? Blow in, blow up, blow out, flame throwing, using other people's ID.

June 24, 2014 at 10:46PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

And how many Genes are there here ;)

June 26, 2014 at 7:43AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Well, looks like about 5 or 6. Funny, I've never met another 'Gene' in person. Only seen it a few other times, Gene Hackman, Gene Simmons, Gene Roddenberry, Gene Autry, Gene Wilder, Gene Kelly. And never seen a comment on the internet on other sites with Gene. Lots of Gene's ended up here..... some how.

June 27, 2014 at 12:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene, the tryin...

I agree with this - I'm 8 years into my career shooting for corporate/docs and we are still a couple years away from any clients requesting 4k. People STILL can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080. Yes, there is a place for shooting 4k today. Yes, it's nice to have the ability to crop your shot and so on.

But as mentioned above, by the time 4k is a real necessity we will have all sorts of options to choose from.

I'm still more inclined toward the A7s due to the full frame sensor over the smaller M4/3.

June 24, 2014 at 7:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ty

Absolutely agree and I agree with Mark. We are a very long way, IF EVER from needing to/having to shoot 4K.

I'm still not remotely convinced 4K is even going to take hold. True 1080p is gorgeous, at least a GH4 will downscale to a really nice 1080p but I have zero interest in delivering anything in 4K.

Also I wish the GH4 well but the highlights don't look very nice to me but still better than the Canon DSLRs ;)

June 26, 2014 at 7:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Wow, It's a throw down for exhaustive GH4 reviews. Who wins? Dave Dugdale or Caleb Pike.
https://vimeo.com/m/98782921

June 24, 2014 at 12:59AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Earnest reply

He's high on the GH4. He says he is so done with Canon, and the GH4 has made him excited about shooting video again. I like that frame he has around it.

June 24, 2014 at 1:08AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

THats fantastic, but I will see if he is still excited in 6 months or a year. Caleb's review honestly just sounded like he truly enjoyed the camera, which as a side effect, will make you shoot more. Im truly interested to see how everybody feel sin 6 months or a year of using the GH4.

If a "camera" makes you excited to shoot again, you have a gear problem. I understand its lighter, easier, and you can take it more places, BUT if you are a pro shooter like Caleb, that shouldnt change you urge to shoot, whether on a Canon, RED, GH4, or Chinese rip off camera. Both Dave and Caleb's review had a level of "new electronic gadget" syndrome that just didnt come off well to me, and unfortunately, biased the review a tiny bit.

Im frustrated with my (lack of) options from Canon too, but that doesnt stop me from shooting, planning my next shoot, etc.

June 24, 2014 at 3:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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PS I may end up with this camera eventually as well. My comments arent made to discourage, I just dont believe in the bandwagon approach (sell everything, buy everything). If its truly the Brand changer, it will still be so in 6 months to a year, and I can proceed.

Its a camera, not a soul. Pick one, shoot, edit, repeat cycle. If you can afford to, upgrade. If not, continue cycle until you improve, die, or give up storytelling.

June 24, 2014 at 3:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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He did say why: he was tired of all the constant tinkering needed with 5D's.

June 24, 2014 at 10:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Doug is absolutely right. I gave up on Canon even earlier than he did - they aren't interested in the filmmakers who put them where they are in the first place. I dumped my 7D for the Nikon D5200 - it had a sharper picture and a lot less aliasing and moire than the 7D - it compares favorably to the 5D Mark III and costs thousands less. Magic Lantern proved Canon was crippling the Mark III just to protect their high end stuff which they wouldn't have had in the first place if it hadn't been for the 5D. Why give money to these people?

June 24, 2014 at 1:21AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ed Wright

I am one of those folks who switched to Panasonic.

No regrets. 4K (Especially Cinema 4K) is such a treat for my small operation, opening the door for so many more projects and clients. It also didn't break the bank, so I will be able to afford to upgrade my gear in a year or two.

June 24, 2014 at 1:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tom

Seems great, but there's something I'm not quite sure about.
To get wider angles one needs to get very wide lenses, meaning quite twice of the price of, let's say a Tokina?
To push the aperture one needs the Metabones thing, other money on top of the starting price. I mean, yes, it's cheaper but it seems to me is not 100% ready to go out of the box (at least if we consider those two details), maybe 70-80%?
Also, for a vintage ML addicted like me, I guess is not gonna be very easy to live with the sensor size side effect...
Last but not least: did I hear well? The camera crashes now and then? hm...

June 24, 2014 at 2:56AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marco

Also, considered the M43 of the GH4, the fact that A7s cannot directly save 4k straight out of the camera, it seems to me that other brands are still kinda limiting their products somehow, not so different from what Canon does. But I do agree Canon doesn't listen to their customers whereas other brands are trying to push at least in the low/mid-budget market.
I dunno... should I switch today I wouldn't know what to buy. I guess as usual best thing to do would be rent/try & then decide.

June 24, 2014 at 3:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marco

On the wide angle, you can get a fisheye and then push it or reframe it in in post. If you're shooting in 4K, you have more than enough detail to do so.
.
Anyhow, it's one thing to be selling your old Canon cameras, it's another to get be getting rid off your Canon glass. Obviously, with the advent of 4K, every video camera manufacturer is revamping his lines because no one is going to be able to sell a lot of $10K-$20K cams if they don't include 4K. Meanwhile, while the quality and features will vary, there'll be a ton of 4K cams out soon. Even the consumer juggernaut like Samsung will have a 4K unit out (NX1) . Panasonic obviously just came out with the bridge 4K camera in Z1000. Surely, Nikon and Canon aren't going to leave the market to their competitors and that includes both the photo-video hybrids as well as the camcorder style products.
.
As to what a rep says at the NAB, it's usually nothing but piffle. Their job is to help retailers move the merchandise that's already on the store shelves. Rumors of future models and rumored features do nothing of a kind.

June 24, 2014 at 4:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

There are several choices for Wide Angle Lenses. For the GH4 the best choice would likely be Panasonic's 12-35mm 2.8 (FOV equivalent 24-70mm). But there are also lots of primes in the 12mm area. The Olympus 12mm 2.0 is worthwhile looking at for example. And I'm in love with the Panasonic 7-14mm.
Micro Four Thirds has a great selection of lenses and many of them are a bargain. With the GH4 Panasonic lenses are advisable because of DHD but don't miss out what I consider to be the most magic lenses of the MFT world the Olympus 75mm 1.8 and the Panasonic 25mm 1.4 -- very magic lenses. For anybody getting the GH4 -- welcome to the world of MFT!

June 27, 2014 at 5:26AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Endlos

Yet, there's still no global shutter for either Canon or Panasonic. No thanks to either one.

June 24, 2014 at 3:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Maxx

I know, gees, I'm doing whip pans all day. I hear ya.

June 25, 2014 at 1:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Rolling Shutter Repair is such a hard button to press...

June 25, 2014 at 2:40AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tom

Yeah, I didn't add a /sarc/ tag as I thought my sarcasm was obvious. Who knew.

June 25, 2014 at 9:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Fret review, I got my gh4 and within 2 weeks was selling gear together another, I have a scarlet, black magic 4k, and all the nikons, this is the best bang for the buck of any camera I have ever used. We got our first 4k television and the images and detail are amazing!

June 24, 2014 at 3:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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A point on the market - all manufacturers try to beat each other on the price&quality angle. Canon and Nikon have a huge head start here because there are about of hundred of million of Canon lenses out there but, with other manufacturers catching up with them on the lens quality and beating them on the price&&quality ratio, the big boys will respond. And, while some features are always going to remain a surprise until the official announcement, the "going" features of the day will include global shutter or its facsimile, HDR, low light capability, 4K/6K, updated software/codecs, AF, etc. The only remaining questions concern which models will receive what features and at what price point. In that, everyone should expect some product crippling from everyone but for the market to keep providing more and more bang for the buck. The technology is already there. It's all a matter of ironing out the production and finishing the marketing aspects of the biz.

June 24, 2014 at 4:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Canon don't do consumer 4k cams because they don't sell 4k TV's

June 24, 2014 at 6:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Really? 4K is just a sales gimmick then?

June 24, 2014 at 9:35AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

I've seen from 3 meters the detail of a 4k tv and I believe it's absurd and unnecessary for consumer use

June 26, 2014 at 9:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Yeah, well, purchasing Alaska was absurd too.

June 27, 2014 at 12:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene, the tryin...

too much cold up there :p

June 28, 2014 at 9:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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The professionals will still keep using Canon, Red, Arri because they know the importance of good colour scions and just look better. For soccer dads/moms the GH4 is no doubt a wonderful 8 bit over sharpened camera :)

Not saying that IF you really want to use the GH4 you can't, but there are much better options image wise when you're being payed and respect yourself and your client. Colour is still bad, skin tones are mediocre, and everything below 4K looks just bad.

June 24, 2014 at 8:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

WTF?

I preordered 2 Sony a7s and have no ties to Panasonic but you sure made some sweeping statements there.

Post a link to your owns tests that back up those claims.

June 24, 2014 at 4:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene Wolfe

Lol..there are multiple tests concerning Sony sensors (being done by DOP societies in every country, in cinemas..) I would advise you to go check the image you're willing to buy on the big screen, next to the others. Then you'll get it ;)

June 24, 2014 at 4:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

Nice try kid

Both the gh4 and a7s have their uses

June 24, 2014 at 8:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene Wolfe

Lol "color scions," you mean "color science?"

June 26, 2014 at 6:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Birdman

The professionals will still keep using Canon, Red, Arri because they know the importance of good colour science and overall just look better. For soccer dads/moms the GH4 is no doubt a wonderful 8 bit over sharpened camera :)

Not saying that IF you really want to use the GH4 you can't, but there are much better options image wise when you're being payed and respect yourself and your client. Colour is still bad, skin tones are mediocre, and everything below 4K looks just bad.

June 24, 2014 at 8:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

Is ARRI left in the dust too because they don't have a 4K camera?

So many people are acting as if a camera doesn't have 4K that it's irrelevant. That's just not true. 4K is simply a way for companies that don't have a large market share to introduce a new "gimmick" to help them catch up to their rivals and it usually works to a point. Canon and ARRI both understand that there isn't a REAL demand for 4K cameras yet. I mean, look at how many Academy Award Nominee's used something other than an ARRI for their 1st Unit. I don't think they are concerned about losing a few people to the GH4 when they are selling loads of their Cinema Cameras. Has Panasonic even come out with a decent cinema camera since the AF-100? Talk about losing market share...

My only complaint with Canon's business is that they refuse to put any form of slow motion into their cameras.

June 24, 2014 at 9:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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+1

June 24, 2014 at 9:13AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Michael

ARRI is working on a 4K camera right now. It been in development for about 2 years and is rumored to be out possibly by the end of the year.

June 24, 2014 at 9:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

ARRI may also be working on a 6K sensor, though it may be just a rumor:

http://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/1564-pre-nab-rumor-arri-s-6k...

June 24, 2014 at 9:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

I don't know if anyone is thinking there's a competition between Arri and GH4.

Also, most of the big money makers are done in 4K, and, in 3D (but we're told 3D is dying). They may not be nominated for Oscars. But the Oscars best movie have become a political award, not necessarily about the best movie. The fact they chose Whoopi Goldberg(4 times), Ellen DeGeneres(2 times), and Jon Stewart(2 times) to be host the Oscars shows how political the Oscars have become.

June 24, 2014 at 10:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

starting to look like the nba live & nba 2k competition,and we all know who won that?

June 24, 2014 at 9:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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jerome lucas

What about GH4 for stills? I'm considering to buy a new camera next year, and I'm in a dilemma. GH4 or 5D3? I wanna have a camera that has great video and photo quality/ability.

June 24, 2014 at 9:59AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Elisha Batuncang

Nikon may also be coming out with a new 4K video, and stills camera soon. Another one to consider.

Just be careful and take time to look over them all. Take time and choose wisely so you don't regret later on your choice, is my advice.

June 24, 2014 at 10:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

The GH4 is a $1800 camera... it's not really that big of a purchase...

June 25, 2014 at 12:02AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tom

Lots of complaints on this site about wasted camera purchases.

June 25, 2014 at 1:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Still photography long ago reached the point of "good enough", even quite average midrange or entry level modern still cameras are good enough for 95% of people.

It is cutting edge video performance which is still lagging behind from where we'd like to be.

Thus get the Panasonic GH4! It has the most cutting edge video performance by far in this market segment, and its still performance is more than good enough! (unless you're in a small and very demanding niche, such as a pro photographer of NFL games)

June 25, 2014 at 3:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I understand what Dave is saying. It can be tempting.
I owned a GH1 and then GH2 and made the switch to a 60D last year. When the GH4 came out I was like "oh, that's nice, maybe I should consider switching back." But I already told myself I was going to stick with Canon long term. So I'm holdng strong. At least for a little while longer so I can see what the 7D2 and the new rebel offer. If I don't see any video progress in these two camera, then I will consider making the switch to something else.

The GH1/2 were great cameras, but I felt like the Canon had a stronger cinematic look to begin with. The GH series looks more video. To me that's a big thing. Even though the image is high resolution and sharp, if it doesn't have the look I'm after I'll still turn to the Canon or something that does.

My overall reason for switching to Canon and sticking with it is has to do with options for long term lens investment. Canon lenses are decently priced, there are a ton of them and you can put them on a variety of camera bodies including their DSLRs, their cinema cameras and even some Blackmagic and RED cameras. With a speedbooster, potentially even more cameras.

I also have to consider that Canon will eventually improve the video quality on their DSLRs, it's a given based on market demands. It's just a matter of when. So when picking lenses to buy it's a long term investment and I feel like Canon is the safest bet. Especially if you want to have AF functionality for shooting stills in some of that glass. Since I shoot stills that is also important to me.

So unlike Dave, I'm not going to just jump systems because Panasonic brings out one nice new camera. I have to look at the bigger picture. Plus I already leanred this lesson. 15 years ago I bought my first Canon DSLR and then sold it a year later and jumped from system to system for the next 14 years. If I had just stuck with that Canon back then and bough lenses, I would have a nice arsenal of glass of glass by now. Instead I had to start fresh last year when I finally smartened up and said "Hey, quit jumping systems and puts some roots down."

June 24, 2014 at 10:21AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I just buy Nikon F mount glass, lots of it!

I started out with a Panasonic GH1, now using a Nikon D5200 (recent example shot with it: http://vimeo.com/94806693), and because I've gone with Nikon F mount glass I'm totally free to jump about from one system to another of whatever takes my fancy!

Be that Panasonic, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Blackmagic Design, or even something crazy like..... Olympus, Kodak, or FujiFilm! (lol, I doubt it, but who knows what the future holds??)

June 25, 2014 at 3:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I've considered that, but I still want autofocus while shooting stills. Unless you get into the AF-D glass and a higher end Nikon like a D7000+ you don't have the ability to AF. With Canon you do on all their cameras, you just need other cameras with full EF support.

June 25, 2014 at 1:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I think you know all this, but the words you wrote don't quite match.

All current Nikon bodies have AF with all current "G" lenses. Older lenses can be used, but with manual focus.

Pro and semi-pro bodies (Pro = D4, D800, semi-pro = D600, D7100) will autofocus with "G" lenses, as well as the older AF and AF-D lenses.

June 26, 2014 at 4:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ken Elliott

You went from a GH2 to a 60D? And your saying the GH2 has the look of a video camera? I can't follow that logic. And if the GH2 can't do cinematic style film how do you explain all the indie films shot with the GH2 including this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U9KmAlrEXU

June 27, 2014 at 5:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Endlos

I bought my only Canon when the overhyped 5D2 came out.
It actually was a good landscape camera if you had over 10 minutes to set up for a shot on a steady TriPod.
I also tried lots of Canon Glass and ended up using and prefering Sigma lens on it.
I hated having to use manual focus (that was the worst AF I ever tried),
And I absolutely hate the Cinemac look, especially jello and rolling shutter Video.
For me, the Nikon D90 was an upgrade and they have made plenty of better cameras.

What do I use now? A GH4.

August 31, 2014 at 11:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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RRRoger

Sorry dave. No ML no review.

June 24, 2014 at 10:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Edgar

By "ML", you're referring to Magic Lantern? As in, if there's no ML test, there's no review?

Are you kidding? I feel deeply sorry for you if you think Magic Lantern is the end-all be-all of the future of cameras. Dude, stay open to possibilities.

June 24, 2014 at 11:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Magic Lantern is a huge part of why people still sticking with the 5D Mark III, so I think to not touch on that is a bit neglectful.

June 24, 2014 at 12:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Nick

Dave DOES talk about ML RAW, and states that he specifically didn't compare because of the large difference in workflow. He seems to be more interested in quick and easy transport and shooting.

A lot of cameras can shoot RAW now, so frankly, I'm glad he didn't make this a RAW versus Compressed debate. He's talking ergonomics, speed and ease of use within a scope of details, as well as his experience with Canon and their non-interest in pushing the boundaries of DLSRs.

If it wasn't for the Magic Lantern team sealing Canon in their spot in the industry, Canon DSLRs would probably be dead in the video world, very very soon.

June 24, 2014 at 1:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Don't panic Jordan.

In general, the media is highlighting ML RAW as much as making everyone believe that the raw function is all it has to offer. Analog audio gain, audio monitoring, false colors, zebra, auto ettr, intervalometer, waveform, vector scope, dual iso, frame overwrite, bitrate multiplier. and all you can imaging can be put inside a devise that little and yet powerfull. It is free and mind blowing to know that 8 years old DSLR have all this potential. That is what ML is all about. Please Note I'm not speaking about canon or raw here. Does anybody remember why the GH2 was so sensational?

I know Dave rarely goes deep in to the matter. Is not a bad thing. But there is people like me who really like to know what is happening.

June 24, 2014 at 5:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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edgar

ML is awesome but lets be real, the workflow and file sizes are a massive pain in the ass. And even with ML the detail is nowhere close to the GH4. And this is coming from someone that owns nothing but Canon cameras/glass.

June 26, 2014 at 6:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Birdman

Isn't the softer and more "bokehy" canon image more "cinematic" as opposed to more "videoish" GH4 pixel perfect image?

June 24, 2014 at 10:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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You can soften the image if you want it...

June 24, 2014 at 1:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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alex mand

The GH4 so far seems like a a great choice for people who want primarily want sharp and detailed video with decent low-light performance and secondarily as a camera for indie filmmakers. There are some good attempts at producing a cinematic image with that camera, but nothing I've seen yet has impressed nearly me as much as early BMCC footage.

June 24, 2014 at 3:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marc B

Use an aftermarket Speed Booster with some nice old Zeiss glass and it softens it quite nicely, more filmic than LUMIX glass.

June 25, 2014 at 2:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tom

Anybody else having trouble getting to and viewing the first page of comments?

June 24, 2014 at 11:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I am too. I'll let Ryan know and see if we can get it resolved.

June 24, 2014 at 11:04AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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avatar
Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4538

This is like the 3rd or 4th time this happened and none of the previous ones were fixed.

June 24, 2014 at 11:53AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

June 24, 2014 at 2:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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BMcQ

Hey guys,

Could you screenshot what it looks like for you? I'm not able to duplicate the problem on my end and therefore I'm not sure how we could fix it. Thanks!

June 24, 2014 at 4:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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avatar
Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

When it went to a two page comment section, clicking on the Page1 link didn't do anything. Now that it's been restored to a single page comment section, there's no longer a problem.
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PS. There's still a fake "DLD" comment at 10:22 that refers to "marklondon, etc" ... not my post ...

June 24, 2014 at 9:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Where are the 1million Comments i came here to read!?!?!?!

June 24, 2014 at 12:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Z-Axis

Me too, ditching Canon for the GH4

June 24, 2014 at 2:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Rob

I was going to buy a Mark II in 2008, but then I heard the 7D had better features and I was going to buy it in 2009 until I found out that the Mark III was coming. So, I waited two more years for the Mark III in 2011, but found out the Scarlett was coming in 2012 and it had 4k. I was about to buy one, but then i found out the 4k Blackmagic was coming in 2013, so I waited another year. Then I found out the Blackmagic was a shitty, but then I found out the GH4 was coming, but I couldn't decide, but then I found out the Dragon has 6k, so who cares about 4k. Maybe, I'll get one in 2015. By the way, I've never shot anything, but as soon as I get the best camera, I'll be able to fake the years of experience I would have gained in the last 7 years because I know a bunch of marketing specs related to cameras I understand nothing about, said the devoted troll. 8k!

June 24, 2014 at 4:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Derek

Epic

So true

June 24, 2014 at 4:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene Wolfe

Best comment.

June 24, 2014 at 6:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Janssen

baha I can't stop laughing

June 25, 2014 at 2:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Just wait for the Nikon D400 to come out, it is going to even be able to make you a cup of tea!

June 25, 2014 at 3:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Yup. DVX-100 for sale. You can have the camera that started it all!

June 26, 2014 at 9:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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jd holloway

Great review Dave. Looking forward to your GH4 vs A7S. Plus A77MK2 vs A99 MK2. Need to make up my mind FF or APSC? Making the transition from Pentax who will never have a FF.

June 24, 2014 at 7:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Harry Kemball

Super 35mm = APS-C

Don't go with FF, unless you've got way too much cash to waste and big muscular arms to carry around their excessive weight! :-P

Read this article for insight into what you should get with a US$10,000 budget:
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/hypothetical-minimum-set.html

Got less than a US$10,000 budget? Then do not bother with FF!

June 25, 2014 at 3:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I'm still gathering info around and looking at samples. Assumed that best thing to do is just rent it and try out by oneself, I'm still not sure about the character of this camera (actually of GHs in general). Yes, it is crisp, lot of detail, quasi moire free, 4k and so forth, but what it does matter to me is the character of the image at the end. I'm not too concerned about quality, focus, crispness. Somehow GHs cameras look more video-ish vs cinematic. Not sure what it is, I might be wrong, that's just how I see it.
It's almost like comparing vintage ml to modern lenses, there's something in the vintage ones in terms of render that modern don't have. That being said, new cameras that push forward the market it's always good.

June 24, 2014 at 8:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marco

I haven't tried one yet but hopefully can before too long. That cinematic versus video look - on the GH cameras, and any camera for that matter, I've always felt is not the sensor so much as 1) color grade, 2) lighting, 3) lenses. Old Nikon glass on the GH2/3 has worked great for me in the past.

June 24, 2014 at 11:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Have you used Metabones or other sb for that?

June 25, 2014 at 12:13AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Nope, just dumb m43 adapters so far. Debating investing in Speedboosters for the BMCC/BMPCC.

June 25, 2014 at 11:38AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I have seen more than once that a speed booster gives more of that "filmic" in the GH4 that some want.

June 25, 2014 at 11:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

BTW, there's samples of GH4's with Metabones in vimeo and YouTube.

June 25, 2014 at 11:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Totally agree with that, even though there's something that caught my attention as far skin tone renders goes, at least from what is supposed to be straight out of the camera videos I've seen around... but yes, for sure no way to actually judge without testing it out on the field.

June 25, 2014 at 1:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marco

ops... did something wrong with the reply, was replying @ Joe Filipas

June 25, 2014 at 1:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marco

Oh for sure - the GH3 skin tone capture was a huge improvement over the GH2, which straight out the camera could skew green if you weren't careful.

Filmed this a while back on the GH2, and was pretty pleased with it, but it took a lot of work with Colorista and Looks to get to that point. Almost everything here, aside from a few shots on the SLR Magic 12mm, is on the old Nikon 28mm/f2.8 and 50mm/f1.4 (both non-AI).

June 25, 2014 at 11:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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June 25, 2014 at 11:43AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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A major announcement from Samsung today - among the high end UHD sets, they're also introducing a budget 40" model at $999. This should put more pressure on the off-brands to keep improving their products and lowering their prices at the same time. Right now, the lowest priced UHD set is 39" Seiki for $399. I expect to see a lot more units within a month or so, as the football season approaches (of course, NFL is still 720p OTA or 3.5 Mbps on NFL.com. NFL Now will launch in August)

June 24, 2014 at 9:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Any news on 4K DVD's and 4K DVD players?

Too bad they don't just put 4K movies into thumb drives and you could just plug them into the USB port on the tv, no player needed........

June 24, 2014 at 11:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

BTW, ESPN is going 4K in the first qtr of 2015. 4K tvs make nice computer monitors for watching 4K stuff on the internets. :-) A 4K monitor for $399.00? :-)

June 24, 2014 at 11:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Samsung is promising to have a 23.6" (odd size for the US market but it's 60 cm in metric) for around $400 by September. AOC has just released a 27" 4K monitor in the UK for £499, which might mean around $500 in the US. Asus has a brand new 28" monitor that retails for around $600-$650, as does Samsung. All of these newer monitors are using slightly older technology instead of the new IZGO/IPS. Those units still run several grand.

June 25, 2014 at 1:43AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Better check on your UK vs. US exchange rates. Not 1=1.

June 27, 2014 at 3:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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funkydmunky

720p because it allows for 60fps.

June 27, 2014 at 3:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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funkydmunky

I think that Canon has the best offer in order to allow magic lantern to Release the 14bit dng file from the 5dmark3 .. and This is a giant step in my opinion ... Not Sony nor Panasonic offers such an offer at this price .. Not even Black Magic .. If Canon offered 14 bit dng file in 4k resolution .. i will ensure my loyalty to them forever

June 25, 2014 at 9:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Arthur

its a fantastic option, but a hell of a workflow (coming from someone using it fulltime). I understand the want and need for a quicker and easier workflow

June 25, 2014 at 12:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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The Best Camera War is still going on? I'll let you gentlemen be, I got things to shoot.

June 25, 2014 at 5:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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PayDro

Not if you chimed in ;)

June 27, 2014 at 3:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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funkydmunky

Canon blundered into the video DSLR scene with the 5D2...and haven't done a useful thing since. They aren't seriously interested in giving videographers value for money technology...and deserve to be ignored henceforth.

Panasonic on the other hand learned their lesson when they stupidly tried to block the Ptool hack in the old GH1...in order to maintain "control" over what the plebs were allowed to buy/use. They have realized that there are a lot of talented "plebs" out there who are hungry for well thought out cameras delivering superb image quality at a reasonable consumer level price. The GH4 proves the absolute success of this marketing strategy.

June 25, 2014 at 7:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Skeptikal

ADOBE...FIX YOUR FUCKING FLASH PLAYER...

June 25, 2014 at 7:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Skeptikal

You'll never win. Innovation never sleeps, folks. I'm not averse to switching to GH4 or A7s from Canon. But better to keep your Canon glass, just in case...

June 26, 2014 at 1:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ed Hecht

GH4 and A7s 4K recorder, Convergent Design Odyssey 7q

http://vimeo.com/98497426

June 27, 2014 at 1:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene, the tryin...

Canon obviously needs to pick up their game. One way is to work with Magic Lantern to release the inner raw capability of their DSLR line. No one will sell their gear and it will maintain sales of their lenses.

June 27, 2014 at 4:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Bo

Let's us all be honest for second. If it wasn't for Magic Lantern nobody would be using Canon cameras for as long as we have. Canon has done absolutely nothing for the Indie film maker scene since the Canon 5d mk2 release . When the canon 5d mark 3 was released it was underwhelming. But when ML RAW was released, that's when people became excited about canon cameras. Companies like Panasonic, Black Magic and maybe Sony see the value in the film maker market. I'm planning on selling my Canon 5D Mk3 and buying either the gh4 or the A7S. I'm moving on.

June 27, 2014 at 9:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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There's definitely a lot of credit due to the ML folks. Even the 5D mark II at my work is significantly improved by ML. Not so much in image quality, but in usability with waveform, focus peaking, zebras, etc.

It definitely makes using the 6 years old, heavily limited camera way more tolerable.

June 27, 2014 at 9:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Doug's review is spot on except for his one complaint that the video Record button is "too recessed." Panasonic thought of this: when in the Movie mode, the shutter button, which is right under your index finger, becomes a second video Record button. If in autofocus, it also pops the camera into focus. You can set the focus mode to be auto/manual. While partially holding down the shutter button, if you grab the manual focus ring on the Panasonic lenses, a user-defined enlarged focus-assist box pops up allowing you to check focus and make adjustment. Fantastic.

Coming from a Nikon D800 that I've used (and lugged around) since mid-2012, this Panasonic GH4 simply blows it away. Yes, there is less depth of field: you don't get those beautiful blurred backgrounds as easily, but the finished video is simply superb. 200 mbps 1080-23.98p is awesome.

I haven't even employed the UHD 3840x2160-23.98/29.97 or the 4048x2160-24.00 modes yet because the week I got my camera/YAGH unit, we needed to shoot several interviews and I wasn't sure how the UHD would work in Premiere or FCP or Vegas or Media 100. But the 1080p stuff I shot was simply amazing and easy. The camera is a joy to use.

The flip-out viewfinder and electronic eye-level finder are terrific.

The YAHG lower unit (which costs more than the body) allows reliable and professional audio inputs and SDI outputs to our 19" SDI monitor over a single BNC coax. (One sad discovery: our older SDI monitors cannot lock up to 60p or 29.97p video, as they were designed to sync to 23.98, 29.97i or 59.94i only. Had to shoot 23.98p if I wanted to monitor on an external monitor. But that's what we were shooting at, so it was okay.)

Drawbacks to the YAGH unit:
1. The YAGH slopes forward so far and is so tall that it's impossible to fit most follow focus gears and rings to the Panasonic lenses. The lenses are very short and compact and I just can't get the gears in there. I'm looking into using a wraparound belt design instead of a gear driven system.

2. The YAGH has to be externally powered by an 11-17VDC power supply via its industry-standard 4-pin XLR plug. No internal battery capability. You can run via a 12VDC battery back, an Anton Bauer 14.4 or an AC Adapter. The YAGH does power the camera, though, so no worries about changing batteries in the camera in the middle of a shoot. So, if you want to wander around with the YAGH attached so you can get good audio in, you'll need a battery and a cable somewhere. Could be a couple of 7.2VDC Sony lith-ion 970-type in series to get the 14.4VDC or some other solution.

3. The micro-HDMI plug runs from the left side of the camera inside an armored cover to supply HDMI and SDI signals out. Everything runs down that little HDMI fitting. It would have been better if the HDMI came out the bottom of the camera. Having that armored cable on the side stops the flip-out viewfinder from freely moving and makes getting the earphone-out attached.

4. When the YAGH is attached, all signals run out of the YAGH unless you punch the Function-3 button to send the signals (audio and video) out the camera. This means if you're monitoring via an external SDI monitor, the earphone out is dead on playback. If your monitor doesn't have audio capability, you cannot hear the audio on playback. To hear the playback, you have to punch the Function-3 and watch on the tiny camera monitor to hear via the headphone out. Small but annoying.

Overall, the camera is a dream.

I bought some Metabones adapters to use my Nikon glass: the Nikon F/G to MF3 Speed Booster ($400) and a regular Nikon F/G to MF3 adapter. These adapters have rings that allow you to stop the lens down if desired as the G series Nikon glass do not have f/stop rings anymore. My Nikon 70-200 with the speed booster becomes an f/2 lens and is very sharp, if gigantic. Definitely need a rail solution to support such a monster lens.

Rail adapter screws into the front 1/4-20 holes on the YAGH. They are centered exactly 85mm below the optical center of the sensor, conforming to the Lightweight Support 60mm width rod standard.

Rod adapters that fit are available from coollcd.com for $26.

As much as I liked using my D800, it simply isn't as sharp as this GH4.

And the small size and light weight of the camera/lens combo is a pleasure to pack and use.

Overall, the GH4 is my new favorite camera, and I've been using Nikon since 1974.

June 28, 2014 at 2:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Dan

Thanks for sharing your experience as a long time shooter. Especially your info regarding legacy Nikon glass and your experience with adapters is helpful. There are so many great lenses that can be used with Mirrorless cameras in addition to the native MFT lenses. Have you tried the Olympus 75mm 1.8? I think you will blown away if you haven't.

June 28, 2014 at 4:03AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Endlos

Way back in the 1980 and 90s a couple musicians playing sampling synthesizers started replacing entire Broadway Theater orchestras. Keyboardists programming tiny drum machines started replacing real studio drummers and their entire kits. Art Directors on Apple Computers and various software started replacing entire Print Production Departments. Now TV commercials that used to require 30-40 crew, (plus teamsters, trucks, generators, light/grip gear) can sometimes be shot with 4 or 5 crew or even less, and post-production that required film labs, off-line then SFX and on-line edit facilities, sound design/audio mixing studios are now often all done on a single computer. I guess it should not be surprising that a $1700 GH4 is being compared to a Red Camera. Still this is amazing stuff even for a jaded guy like me…I wish Panasonic would make a version of the GH4 that looks more like a movie camera than a DSLR...

June 29, 2014 at 2:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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rob

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