October 30, 2014

The $1,000 App that Allows iPhones to Shoot 4K Video Just Got a Whole Lot Cheaper

Vizzywig
Last month, we wrote about Vizzywig4K, a one of a kind app that allows iPhones to shoot, edit, and deliver 4K video. As great as that seems, the original $1000 price tag left everybody scratching their heads.

An update to the app was released yesterday that not only added support for iOS 8.1, but the price was significantly reduced to $49.99. Users who purchased the app at its original price will receive a full refund of the difference in the two prices. Additionally, the app is no longer called Vizzywig4K, but instead Vizzywig 8xHD. The new name apparently isn't trying to imply that it can pull 8K video from an iPhone, but that it can pull 4K video, which is roughly eight times the resolution of 720p video.

For those of you who were interested in seeing Vizzywig4K or Vizzywig 8xHD tested against other 4K-capable smartphones (and a RED ONE MX), the founder of i4Software, Michael Zelatel, recently did just that. He tested his app against the Sony Xperia Z2, LG-G3, and his RED ONE. Unfortunately, I can't embed those test videos here, but you can see all of that material in this Dropbox folder.

Vizzywig 4K Test against RED ONE

Although $50 is still a relatively hefty price for an app, it's much harder to argue with that price point because Vizzywig 8xHD really is an interesting piece of software engineering that adds some significant capabilities to the limited camera hardware of the iPhone. Granted, this app will never replace a dedicated 4K camera and editing system for any kind of serious video production work (as some claimed that it would), but it provides more video functionality to the iPhone than it previously had, and that's worth something. Not $1000, though. That's just silly.

Click here to download Vizzywig from the App Store.     

Your Comment

113 Comments

Releases a good app for $1000. Everyone is out raged at the price. Sites upon sites blog about the ridiculousness of the price. When the storm quietens, they release the app for $49. All of the sites that wrote about the app, re-write another article about the price drop. Amount spent on global advertising = $0

October 30, 2014 at 4:04PM

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Lewis McGregor
Content Creator
117

As likely (and legitimately brilliant) as I think that marketing strategy is, I'm pretty confused about why Michael Zelatel, the app's creator, would have commented like 60 times on our original post trying to justify the original price. Having read through that comment section many times (for its sheer entertainment value), I'm convinced that Zelatel believes his app is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that it should legitimately cost $1K, if not more.

I mean, if he knew that the price would drop within the next month, why expend all of that energy fighting an impossible perception battle with internet commenters? Why not just sit back, soak in all of the free publicity, and bide your time until you lower the price? It just doesn't add up. I'm also curious as to why the app disappeared from the app store for a short period.

October 30, 2014 at 6:39PM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4503

I definitely do believe the app is worth $1,000. Take a look at the tests we ran against a Red One MX with a $1,500 Nikon lens. I've posted a link to the raw R3D files, still image sequences and 4K video files.

October 30, 2014 at 7:45PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

I think that was part of the marketing plan. It's one thing to just release an expensive application and let the media report on it, but to drive the publicity just a bit further by attempting to directly engage potential users and rile up heated arguments is probably even more effective still. At least, for those engaged in or reading those discussions, the product's existence was probably that much more implanted in their consciousnesses.

November 1, 2014 at 4:25PM, Edited November 1, 4:25PM

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That last article was pure bliss, entertainment for at least 3 days in the commentary.

October 31, 2014 at 9:30AM

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Josh Paul
Most often DP, Direct or Gaff
1245

BEGIN RANT - This 'app' is a total waste of $49, let alone $1000 - it might up-res video, but let's be clear, it's not actual 4K. You just can't make something out of nothing. The iPhone has an HD (1920x1080 pixel) video camera, you simply can't make it 4K (4096x2160 pixels) or UHD (3840x2160 pixels) with software. Whatever trascoding/up-resing/pixel-doubling/tripling/quadrupling voodoo/bullshit they're using to get '4K video' is going to make it look like crap, guaranteed. Never mind that cramming enough pixels for 4K video on a sensor as tiny as most mobile devices is already a spectacularly bad idea. Apple knows this, so they concentrated on making their HD sensor as good as it can be with its larger pixels, better dynamic range and sharper/faster optics. Bottom line - you don't need 4K on your phone, it's a silly sales gimmick and a complete waste of time (and money). - END RANT

October 30, 2014 at 4:13PM

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And angry ranting man didn't actually read about the app or how it's achieving 4k in the first place. It's not up-resing, it's taking 24 stills a second and stitching them together.

October 30, 2014 at 4:29PM

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BEGIN COMMENT - Larry is correct.

But the fact is that even the process of up resing to then down resing to the original resolution often times helps. And it's not like the 4k on my red scarlet is super sharp. It only looks good when you down res to 3k or lower. - END COMMENT

October 30, 2014 at 4:56PM

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Scott Talbot
Director
159

Why is Larry incorrect? That’s what it was explained before that the app is doing. Casey is the one who is quite incorrect in assuming that you can’t fit that many pixels into that sensor since they’re ALREADY THERE. 4K video works out to 8MP, which is the resolution of the iPhone sensor.

October 30, 2014 at 5:45PM

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Ryan Toyota
Graphic Designer / Typographer / Video Editor
1238

I didn't say you can't. I said you shouldn't. ;)

October 30, 2014 at 5:46PM

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I said Larry was correct!

October 31, 2014 at 2:32PM

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Scott Talbot
Director
159

Scott, I agree down-resing video can have benificial effects. RED Epic and Sony F55 test have shown that to be the case. If there's someone out there using an iPhone to capture 24fps video at a level (professional or otherwise) that down-resing for contrast or sharpness would be wanted or necessary, my opinion is that they're using the wrong capture device. Just my opinion though...

October 30, 2014 at 5:53PM

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That being said 4k on a phone isn't exactly needed.

October 30, 2014 at 4:56PM

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Scott Talbot
Director
159

If Apple felt the camera was capable of capturing continuous stills at 24fps, I'm sure they'd be marketing the crap out of it.
There simply has to be software manipulation taking place to make 24fps still capture a reality. I have to assume (although I can't be sure) they've lowered the bitrate when saving RGB stills which would allow for more fps at less quality.
My point was that this app isn't creating 4K video, and, well, it isn't.
The 24fps '4K' video at 3264x2448 isn't even close to either accepted 4K or UHD resolution standard. I guess that's why they had to change the name of the app to '8xHD' instead of using 'Vizzywig 4K'.
I tend to get my back up when apps like these try to pull an end around by claiming they're capable of doing something that they actually aren't.
The app definitely does 'something' to the image coming from the sensor (which I choose to call voodoo/bullshit) that allows the iPhone's hardware to capture 24 still frames per second and 'stitch' them together to create 'video', almost certainly at the expense of image quality. Super. That's great. But it's not 4K video, not even close.

P.S. You'll need an iPhone 5s to get the 'best quality' 24fps, because it doesn't work on the 6 or 6 Plus (10fps max.). Also, while it will work at 24fps on iPhone 5 and earlier, the cameras on iPhone's prior to the 5s are much lower quality (read - crappier video/stills at lower res), so be aware of that before purchasing.

October 30, 2014 at 5:40PM

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I'd love to get you a free promo code Casey. Please contact me. I don't want to argue this with you. You have to see it to believe it. 3MB per frame RGB still photos at 3264 x 2448 really do look better than 300kb compressed YUV video frames captured at 3840 x 2160.

October 30, 2014 at 7:51PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Michael, thanks for your offer, I'll get in touch with you. I'm not looking to argue either. I admit I remain skeptical on the actual performance... I appreciate you sharing your tests and standing behind your what you've created. While I'm not sure your app is for me exactly, the fact that you are willing to encourage someone with as many reservations as I have test your app for free says a lot about how good an app you feel you've created. I may have to eat some humble pie in the near future... Also, thanks for being so gracious with me when it probably isn't deserved. Cheers.

October 30, 2014 at 9:32PM

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One free Promo code awaits Casey. Ping me via LinkedIN.

November 2, 2014 at 12:19AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Michael, may I ask why there are such few reviews in the Apple Store regarding the app?

November 6, 2014 at 1:22PM

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sanveer mehlwal
Filmmaker
248

Michael, may I ask why there are such few reviews in the Apple Store regarding the app?

November 6, 2014 at 1:22PM

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sanveer mehlwal
Filmmaker
248

Hi Casey,

Vizzywig 4K does not "res-up" 1920 x 1080 video. It captures RGB still photos (3264 x 2448) at 3MB each 24 times per second along with synched audio from multiple devices at the same time. When used with the Moondog Labs Anamorphic lens, we desqueeze the 3264 x 2448 frames to 4352 x 2448 frames and scale down to 3840 x 2160 or let you access the full 4353 x 2448 if you want.

You can see the tests we ran against the Red One MX and the top Android 4K phones for yourself. I have posted the Google Drive link to ALL the raw files.

October 30, 2014 at 7:48PM, Edited October 30, 7:48PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

smartphone cameras are horrible. they can take some passable stills, but the video is atrocious. the Panasonic Lumix CM1 (or whatever it's called) could be a game changer on that front, since it's got a 1inch sensor.

i think Blackmagic need to get into the game and partner with someone to make a BM pocket with phone capabilities. give me that with a standard wide pancake and i'd change my phone plan instantly to get one of those.

October 30, 2014 at 4:34PM

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Ben Howling
Writer / Director
565

Hi Ben,

Please take a look at the full Google Drive folder I posted that contains the comparison files to the Red One MX and the Android 4K phones. You really have to see what we are doing to believe it. Please keep an open mind. It really is amazing. 3MB per frame RGB photos are not the same as 300kb per frame YUV compression motion video frames.

October 30, 2014 at 7:53PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

The iPhone 5S camera is quite amazing Ben, especially the still photos which have been used in many major magazines and catalogues. We are not capturing video, we are capturing full 8MP RGB stills with synched audio at a rate of 24 per second and 72MB per second.

October 30, 2014 at 9:27PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

I took a look, and what I saw was a Red One MX set up in a fashion I would never want to use it. You've got to strip back all the features that makes it a good camera to make it look like an iPhone. Red has more latitude, holds highlights better, and can obtain legit DoF. The iPhone can't do that.

I'm not criticizing what you're doing, just saying that smartphones just don't make for compelling imagery unless they're heavily treated. You've got to work to give them character. As another poster commented, I think it would do you well to shoot something dramatic, under controlled lighting, to really show the quality of what you can achieve. Right now I'm just seeing smartphone images that have better latitude and detail than normal, but still nothing I'd want to use in a professional sense.

I'll tell you what though, if you could bring in an Android app for $5 that provided log video and fully manual settings for a Samsung, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Just so that if I were in a pinch and needed to grab some video, I could at least have some control over it.

October 31, 2014 at 7:02PM

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Ben Howling
Writer / Director
565

Hi Ben, Give me a scenario and lighting condition you think would be a better comparison for the Red One MX. I might even just go ahead and run some tests against the Red Epic Dragon. Keep in mind that the iPhone 8MP still photo mode does surprisingly well in low light and fake DOF can be added in the future with the new Core Image filter and it looks pretty convincing.

November 3, 2014 at 7:37AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Laughing out loud. At this moment.

October 30, 2014 at 5:37PM

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I literally laughed for 5 solid minutes when I heard about the price reduction last night.

October 30, 2014 at 5:56PM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4503

I really understand you.

October 30, 2014 at 6:06PM

3
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I can't stop laughing.

November 2, 2014 at 1:52PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

OK, the comments from the original post were hilarious. Can't believe they dropped the price that much though.

October 30, 2014 at 7:06PM

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Luke Neumann
Cinematographer/Composer/Editor
2796

Here is the demo video shot entirely on an iPhone 5S. Please make sure to view on the largest monitor you can find and change the setting in lower right corner of YouTube player to 4K resolution even if you don't have a 4K monitor.

http://youtu.be/yQxPsfq0fSw

We also performed extensive testing to substantiate our claims that Vizzywig 4K is outputting true 4K resolution video. Each test includes an HD behind the scenes video shot concurrently with the test shots.

VZ4K vs RED ONE vs Sony Z2 vs LG G3
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8bjEqY78wLpaFFnN2xVRk5hMlU&usp=...

4K Cameras Compared:
1. Vizzywig 4K iPhone 5S
2. RED ONE MX 4K Digital Cinema Camera
3. LG G3 4K Android Smart Phone
4. Sony Xperia Z2 4K Smart Phone

Tests Conducted (Subfolder for each)
1. Interior DAY
2. Exterior DAY
3. Exterior Night (After Sunset)

Each Test folder contains an HD Behind-The-Scenes video and a separate subfolder for each camera to keep things organized. The Behind-The-Scenes video was recorded simultaneously with each test to prove that the tests are legitimate.

October 30, 2014 at 7:38PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

I just saw the video. While the resolution seems excellent for a phone, the frame rate seems to be a bit off. Are you sure that this is 24fps? If so, maybe adding some motion blur into your software will help make this seem more natural. In any case, great job with the app!

October 30, 2014 at 10:46PM

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Miguel Sotto
Cinematographer
260

Hi Miguel,

Thanks. It's the shutter speed. We are working on motion blur that users will be able to optionally apply without affecting the original source frames. The shots in our demo were all captured with really fast shutter speeds (like 1/1000) to maximize still frame resolution. It's really easy to add great motion blur in After Effects but impossible to remove it.

The other option is an ND filter and slow shutter speed (1/48) which is now possible in our iOS 8.1 update but then the motion blur is forever baked in.

October 30, 2014 at 11:00PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Fantastic!
4K imaging of really low cell phone latitude.

Ahhhh.... no.

October 30, 2014 at 9:59PM

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sheldon norton
Indie Filmmaker \ In-house Producer at Rogers Comm
83

The latitude of the iPhone 5S still photo (8MP) is really quite amazing. See our comparison tests in multiple shooting scenarios vs the Red One MX.

October 30, 2014 at 11:01PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Michael, you're doing a really great job defending the app here and answering questions. I would recommend you shoot something fairly dramatic (or at least lit dramatically in both interior and exterior) run it through AE to get rid of that jitter (which is really off putting to potential buyers) and post it up. Look forward to it.

October 31, 2014 at 2:18AM

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Jonathon Sendall
Stories
1736

Thank you Jonathan,

The reason we haven't done that yet is because most general consumers don't have access to Adobe After Effects or fully understand how to apply motion blur in post. I agree we would sell more copies if we ran our high-shutter-speed demo footage through Adobe AE to add motion blur and stabilization but I am concerned that it wouldn't be fair unless fully disclosed. I am hoping most users on this forum understand that the issues they are seeing can be fixed in post.

October 31, 2014 at 2:43PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

"It's really easy to add great motion blur in After Effects"

"most general consumers don't ... fully understand how to apply motion blur in post."

Try not being such an unethical wideboy and being honest and upfront about your product. For a product that stitches photos together into a video, it's neat. As a competitor to a 4k camera, it's a toy. This line about being able to apply motion blur in post is just the worst kind of nonsense - Until I read this, Ubisoft with their "video games look better at 30fps than 60 because it's more cinematic" won my award for most exploititive lie of the week. Now it's all yours. Because like Ubisoft, stitching together 24 or 30 crisp frames together makes for a headache to watch. That motion blur that is so easy to apply in post that most people don't know how to is not at all easy to recreate in the same way that a camera does. When a camera produced motion blur, what you are seeing is the effect of the genuine movement of the thing being filmed, and because our brain is so amazing it can very easily tell the difference between the genuine motion blur and an effect applied in post. The reason you haven't produced a video with motion blur applied is simply because you tried and it looked like blurry bunk. Prove me wrong, if you can, reply to this with a link to one of the videos above taken with your app, apply this easy after effects blur and show us how it looks.

October 31, 2014 at 5:34PM

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Hi Williiam,

This is precisely why we added manual controls for the iOS 8.1 update. You can now set shutter speed to 1/48th of a second and also manually set ISO, Bias, Temperature and Tint. Of course, you may need an ND Filter in daylight. Further we added manual control for focus and a really innovative new focus check feature to nail focus perfectly.

The point is, if you "bake in" the motion blur, it's there forever. Do you realize how impossible it is to remove motion blur from 180 degree shutter 24p? You say it's hard to add motion blue in post. I completely disagree. This has been done successfully in 3D animation forever. That's why AE dedicated a toggle for MB in the timeline. And there are even more sophisticated algorithms. I'd actually rather have the high-shutter speed frames 3 years from now when those algorithms improve even further.

If you don't like the look, use iOS 8.1, set shuttee speed to 1/48th or 1/96 and throw a 37mm Variable ND filter on the iPhone 5S to control exposure.

Next?

November 2, 2014 at 12:31AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

To be fair, anyone who's prepared to spend $50 on a video app for their iphone, likely knows what they're doing.

October 31, 2014 at 6:53PM

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Ben Howling
Writer / Director
565

Wow. Looks awesome. Anyway to try it out first??

October 31, 2014 at 3:18PM

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I'm trying to figure out why I need 4K on my phone...

October 31, 2014 at 4:51PM

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PinZ
Director / Writer / Producer
241

1. Breaking news
2. Family Home Movies
3. Inexpensive Aerial 4K
4. Inexpensive underwater 4K
5. Extreme low light 4K
6. Timelapse 4K
7. Second camera 4K
8. Behind the scenes 4K
9. Risky shots where camera could get damaged.

November 2, 2014 at 12:39AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

1. Breaking news
(Yeah, if you can manage to capture anything relevant with 3 minutes of capture time)

2. Family Home Movies
(Ummm...again. Same problem as above. Birthday parties aren't planned shoots)

3. Inexpensive Aerial 4K
(You'd have to bring the drone down and offload every couple shots. At least with an LX100 you'd have a good 20 minutes. GoPro Hero 4 anybody?)

4. Inexpensive underwater 4K
(Again... offloading every couple shots. I'm sure divers would love to come to the surface every few minutes to offload. Again, why not a GoPro?)

5. Extreme low light 4K
(Say what?!? It's an iPhone...what are you talking about? Low light? LOL!)

6. Timelapse 4K
(Okay sure, but plenty of apps already do this for less money)

7. Second camera 4K
(Yes, but why? the plastic lens and small sensor will never allow you to intercut with other 4K cameras)

8. Behind the scenes 4K
(Do I need to bring up the constant offloading up again?)

9. Risky shots where camera could get damaged.
(AGAIN! Why not pay $400 for a Go Pro and not risk your phone?)

November 2, 2014 at 7:28PM, Edited November 2, 7:28PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Really?

First, GoPro 4 Black costs $499 vs $49.99 for the 60 million people that already have an iPhone 5S.

Second, the GoPro 4 only supports extreme wide angle in 4K mode. Not useful at all for Aerial or many other shot types.

Third, Vizzywig 8xHD can be remote controlled from another iPad or iPhone to start and stop recording. In fact we support simultaneous 4K recording and live switching from up to 8 iPhone 5S's.

You can also reduce the bitrate and record up to 30 minutes on a 64GB iPhone 5S.

November 2, 2014 at 8:05PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

...yes, if you clear virtually every app off your phone then I suppose it's possible, but at what cost? You claim you are going for quality, but compressed JPGs are still that. JPG quality goes down hill pretty quickly the more you compress it. It's less robust than h264. So are you now claiming the low bitrate version of the backend data from your app is up to snuff with the quality of a RED camera? I'm guessing no, because even the high nitrate version won't match the quality of a RED.

Why? It's simple. JPEG compression.

November 2, 2014 at 9:30PM, Edited November 2, 9:30PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Hi Tony. It's always a pleasure.

Lots of people will keep their 5S as a spare phone so keeping it empty is not unreasonable but more importantly you can buy one used on eBay for $325.

But more importantly, let me ask you this. Do you think a 150KB YUV frame from an H.264 has less or more usable data than a 1MB RGB JPG?

Isn't YUV only 16 bits in many cases vs 24 bits for RGB?

Why do you seem to believe that a single frame of a 4MB per second YUV compressed H.264 would have more data per frame than a 24MB still photo sequence at our lowest JPG compression setting which is 1MB per frame instead of 175KB?

Again, have you looked at our raw test files? How do you explain that our still frames beat even the Red One MX R3D frames in resolution and color?

Who cares if it is a small sensor and a plastic Lens. The tests and the raw files cannot lie. That's why we shot the behind the scenes video for proof.

November 3, 2014 at 7:46AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

"Who cares if it is a small sensor and a plastic Lens. The tests and the raw files cannot lie. That's why we shot the behind the scenes video for proof."

Ummm... plenty of people care Michael. That's why talking to you on here is so hilarious. You have no idea who you want your end-user to be and you keep throwing random stuff at the wall hoping it will stick. I looked at your files on google drive. The first glance I immediately noticed plenty of chromatic aberrations and blow out. Having a backend JPG data path won't ever change that.

Sound off everybody. Who would rather purchase a used iPhone and Michaels app over a GoPro Hero4 Black for aerial, underwater or crash cam?

November 3, 2014 at 2:50PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

The fact that you think the GoPro 4 which is limited to only super-wide, fish-eye mode is a good solution for aerial 4K video shows you have no idea what you are talking about Tony.

November 3, 2014 at 4:40PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Yet, I still seem to know more than you. Obviously people seem to agree with me as nobody has spoken up about preferring an iPhone over a GoPro. So, If I have no idea know what I'm talking about, then where does that leave you Michael?

That's a rhetorical question. You don't need to answer it. You already do every time you have something to add here.

November 3, 2014 at 7:18PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Yeah, except you can actually do something with the Red's raw files. For someone so against "baking in" shallow depth of field or slower shutter speeds than 1/1000, you sure aren't taking into account how much of the iPhone's colors and contrast can't be changed without destroying the image.

November 4, 2014 at 2:53AM

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Jacob Floyd
Writer / Videographer
1252

Exactly! The red channel is horrendous. Even with the IR filter.

November 4, 2014 at 7:12PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Apple's engineers have done an amazing job with color science. They are, in fact, some of the top in the world. It takes a LOT of work to make the raw R3D files from a Red One look as accurate to color as what we get natively from each RGB iPhone 5S image.

I completely agree that if you have time to offload R3D files to a Mac or PC and if you have the skill to properly grade those files, you can do a lot more with them. But most of our customers don't have the equipment or the time.

When you just need to shoot something, edit it and post it in 4K to YouTube quickly, you don't exactly want to be spending an extra hour color-grading raw files.

But take a look at some of the RGB still frames on the Google Drive folder. You can actually push those more than you think. It's the YUV compressed H.264 frames that can't be pushed.

November 5, 2014 at 4:47PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Will this work on the iphone 6 or 6plus?

October 31, 2014 at 8:52PM

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Dennis Brooks
Writer/Director
166

Hopefully iOS 8.2.

Currently the 6 and 6 Plus appear to be artificially throttled to exactly 10fps max at 8MP. The encouraging part is that the 5S could do 24fps in iOS 7 but was throttled to 10fps in exactly the same way in iOS 8.0 but is now 24fps again in iOS 8.1.

However, I still use Vizzywig 8xHD on my iPhone 6 and 6 Plus for extreme low light 4K because I can set the shutter speed to like 1/10th and get 10fps that looks pretty cool. When the native iPhone 6 or 6 Plus video camera can't see anything like at a party, I use our app to get something usable and export to 1920x1080.

November 2, 2014 at 12:37AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

I tried it on the iPhone 6, but apparently Apple limited the burst rate on the iPhone 6 to 10fps. According to the manufacturer it currently works best on the iPhone 5s. Read my full review here: http://filmkit.net/posts/show/5081/shoot-4k-on-your-iphone-the-vizzywig-...

November 2, 2014 at 1:01PM

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I think it's a superb initiative to correct the price. I am sure the number of subscribers will go up a thousand times.
The most important aspect of a product is the price. And quality comes immediately thereafter.

November 1, 2014 at 3:44AM

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sanveer mehlwal
Filmmaker
248

I've written a review based on my first impressions: http://filmkit.net/posts/show/5081/shoot-4k-on-your-iphone-the-vizzywig-...

November 2, 2014 at 12:54PM

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One practice I have adopted to save time is that I do not render the HD proxies for each clip. I just trim and arrange clips based upon the thumbnail (first frame) and the audio and memory of the shot. This allows me to quickly compose a 6-shot movie and export the still sequence and upload to YouTube in 4K in half the time.

We will work on improving the UI issues you mentioned. Any suggestions or specific requests?

Have you had a chance to use the app in multi-camera mode?

November 2, 2014 at 2:55PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Oh look! Michaels back! And he's lowered the price of Vizzywig 4K... err, 8xHD.

Michael last time you were here you not only claimed that your app was worth $1000, but that people were actually buying your app en masse for that absurd $1000 price tag. So why drop the price?

November 2, 2014 at 1:51PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

And I still think $50 is a bit much for this. When can we expect another price drop?

November 2, 2014 at 2:34PM

2
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matthew david wilder
Director/Cameraman/Editor/Colorist
275

Let me make sure I understand...

You believe that $50 is "a bit much" for the "only app" in the world that can capture 24 separate still photos per second at 8MP RGB at a data rate of 3MB per frame or 72MB per second along with synched pro-quality digital audio using a Zoom H6?

You feel that $50 is "a bit much" for an app that can achieve the above in remote multi-camera 4K mode and capture 24fps at 3MB per frame from up to 16 WiFi connected iPhone 5S's at the same time offering simultaneous 4K recording and live switching?

And you feel that $50 is "a bit much" for the only app in the world that allows you to preserve every clip as a still image sequence and separate audio file and provides a non-linear, non-destructive 4K stills-based editing environment with 4K titles, 4K lower thirds, 4K scrolling credits, finishing and direct H.264 4K sharing export to YouTube?

Wow. Has software become that devalued among film industry professionals?

November 3, 2014 at 7:56AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Yes. In a few weeks when your sales drop again you'll see why $50 is too much. Then a month or two down the road after you've pulled Vizzywig 8XHD from the store we'll see another incarnation of this app drop and it will be priced less. Hopefully you will come to your senses and realize this simply cannot work as serious production tool and reduce the price to somewhere around $5.

...or a competitor will finally catch up to you and you will lose your last final chance of holding the market for awhile and reaping the rewards.

What you don't seem to get Michael is that nobody is interested in all the remote control and live switching nonsense. They are simply interested in 4K. Stop trying to sell people on features only a fractional percentage of end-users will even want or use.

November 3, 2014 at 3:01PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

The original version of Vizzywig has grossed over $750,000 and is still selling strong among the top grossing photo apps in many countries worldwide at a price point of $29.99. We put the app on sale from time to time to build our install base and drive awareness but if you look at the pricing history, you can see that we stick to our high price point. A large majority of those sales are due to our revolutionary remote control and live switching features.

I don't spend time on here because you are my target market Tony. I have a responsibility to defend our app against slanderous, malicious and false comments.

November 5, 2014 at 3:59PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

We sold 12 copies at that price before the release of iOS 8.0 which limited the app to 10fps even on iPhone 5S. Once Apple fixed the issue in iOS 8.1, we knew the market size would be much bigger.

I still believe the app is worth $1,000, especiall after spending a week testing it against a Red One MX and the Sony Z2 and LG G3 after the intense debate you and I had last time. Did you get a chance to look at the raw files on Google drive yourself? The Android 4K phones aren't even close and we are beating the Red One MX in resolution and color.

The manual shutter speed controls in the iOS 8.1 version allow you to set 1/48th and eliminate the high shutter speed stutter if desired. I still prefer using a high shutter speed so I can pull poster quality prints from any frame and add motion blur in AE in post.

We are offering full refunds to anyone that paid full price.

November 2, 2014 at 2:49PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Honestly, the app sounds intriguing. I won't deny that. That being said I'll wait for the price to drop some more, or wait for the clone app from a different company. It's still not worth $50.

At the end of the day it's a phone and the limitations that come with that are simply never going to compete with actual 4k cameras (not phones) out there. You simply can't get great footage from a small sensor with a plastic lens. The pipeline is compromised from the start.

November 2, 2014 at 7:18PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Contact me thru LinkedIN for a free promo code Tony. Did you look at the raw test files?

November 2, 2014 at 8:09PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

No thanks. I can't really use it for anything. I need space on my phone for important stuff like GTA:San Andreas. As I stated perviously I took a glance at your files and immediately noticed chromatic aberration and harsh blowouts.Doesn't really matter what the bit depth or compression is you aren't fixing those problems in post.

Hmmm... if only there was a better lens and sensor...

November 3, 2014 at 3:06PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

How is the view from the cheap seats Tony?

November 3, 2014 at 4:51PM

3
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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Regardless how well your product works Michael, your making a bad name for your company on this forum.

November 3, 2014 at 5:25PM

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Justin Miller
Director/DP/Editor
329

I have been positive and helpful, answering questions and providing raw test files. The people that have nothing better to do than rudely criticize and distort the facts are the ones making bad name for themselves.

I have give Tony every opportunity to prove his point of view offering so far as to travel to his city and spend a day testing Vizzywig 8xHD against ANY 4K camera of his choice rented at my cost and we both post our respective files for the community here to review.

It's easy to yell out insults from the cheap seats up high in the stadium when others are actually out on the field, in the mud, working hard, making mistakes but getting up and actually playing on the field.

Tony either needs to get out on the field with me and put all his theories to the test or shut the hell up. I know exactly how I come across on this forum and I'm okay with that. I realize the risks I am taking talking so honestly and openly.

People know how hard it is to build and launch an innovative app, let alone how hard it is to get anyone to talk about it. You can second guess my methods, and maybe I am making mistakes along the way but at least I am on the field in the game, not sitting in the stands booing the coach or the players who have enough courage to get in the game.

November 3, 2014 at 6:01PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Also, I just wanted to mention that it's hilarious that a "professional" like Michael has advocated adding fake Depth of Field and Motion Blur in post as solutions to make Vizzywig footage better.

Simply ridiculous.

November 3, 2014 at 3:09PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

The point here is repurposing. If you use shallow depth of field and slow shutter speed, it's baked in forever and you limit yourself to what can be done with the still frames. If you would read, you'll see that Vizzywig 8xHD in iOS 8.1 gives users the option to use 1/48th shutter speed or any shutter speed for that matter. I only suggested adding motion blur in post if you want to use a high shutter speed so that each frame can be used for still photos.

Have you released any Apps Tony? Can you post a link to your best film?

November 3, 2014 at 4:47PM, Edited November 3, 4:47PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

To think that your "test footage" is better than the R1MX is making me laugh beyond control. I looked at the shots for myself and can see that the MX is just plain better. Why compare apples and oranges when you might have the best 4k phone app out there already. Your digging yourself into a really deep hole comparing it with REAL cameras for actual production. Just take it for what it is, a great 4k app for the phone. Simply put. Tony is right on the money when he suggests your trying too hard to market to the wrong consumers. Sell it for $5 and make your millions already.

November 3, 2014 at 5:32PM

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Justin Miller
Director/DP/Editor
329

Justin. Please post a link to the two comparison full resolution still frames that show that the MX is "just plain better". When you are already opposed, just saying the MX is better without pointing out the details means nothing. I am more than ready to have this debate with you and look at both 3840x2160 still frames.

Keep in mind the Vizzywig 4K shots were done on an iPhone 5S in iOS 7 with high shutter speed. iOS 8.1 allows us to manually set shutter speed to 1/48th and internally, we are achieving 30 frames per second on the new iPad Air 2 which has an 8MP camera. Don't waste time on issues we have already resolved.

If you can pull a frame from any of the Red One MX R3D files that you truly believe "is just plain better" than the corresponding frame from Vizzywig 4K, email them to me or post a link to both frames and specifically point out what you are talking about.

November 5, 2014 at 4:06PM

6
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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Michael, I don't have the time to go back and forth over something I have no use for in a production setting anyway. If this was a great product for production you would not have industry folks bashing your claim to supremacy. Like I said before, it may be the best App of it's kind for the iphone but does compare to a RAW workflow from any RED. Taking a still JPG with a baked in look with very little ability to grade in post without damaging the image is not even comparable to a RAW image. Every time I take a shot with my Canon still camera it records a JPG and a RAW image together. The ability to grade the exact image in post with the two different formats is not even comparable. Sure if I was a consumer and didn't care to grade in post then I might be happy with the end result. The main point here is your trying to market to industry professionals on this site.

November 6, 2014 at 12:58PM, Edited November 6, 12:58PM

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Justin Miller
Director/DP/Editor
329

Now it's all about still frames? I thought this was about capturing high quality 4K video. Keep moving the goal post Michael and I'll keep watching from the "cheap seats". LOL!

November 3, 2014 at 6:41PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Also, it always seems to come down to some sort of dick measuring contest with you Michael. It just reveals your character (or lack thereof), but if you must know I've worked on apps. Hell, I designed one. I've been shooting and editing since I was 12 years old. Professionally since I was 19. I've got over 20 years of real world professional experience. You want to keep claiming that your app on an iPhone produces image quality is as good as a RED ONE MX. It doesn't. Period. Instead you'd rather boast about features in your app that nobody cares about, make grandiose claims of quality you simply can't back, and constantly move the goal post for your app, all in attempt to get people to pay $50 for an app.

Expecting people to believe that a 1/3 inch chip with 8 megapixels and plastic lens will be as good as S35 sensor with 8-12 megapixels and a professional lens is either delusional, ignorant, or both. Not to mention silly insinuation that your apps JPG backend solution is equal or superior to Redcode. A codec means nothing if it's encoder is nothing more than sub-consumer camcorder level.

I don't need to do a dick measuring contest with you Michael because the facts are already out there. There's a mountain of them you refuse to acknowledge.

Everything about you reeks of money man, out of touch with his customer base. You certainly aren't coming off as a professional shooter. No professional shooter would make the claims you have. Buying a RED camera doesn't make you an expert in cameras.

November 3, 2014 at 7:03PM

2
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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Well, since Michael seems all for it, I'd like to announce that I'm willing to host the First Annual NoFilmSchool Camera Shoot-Out / Dick-Measuring Contest, featuring Michael Zaletel and Tony Tibbetts.

Tony, if you give up your absurd no-dick-measuring stance, we can bring you both to a seedy motel off the Las Vegas strip and have you guys whip it out in front of an iPhone running Vizzywig and a Red One MX, and see who comes out on top, once and for all.

I'm pretty sure no matter who wins, we all win.

November 4, 2014 at 2:48AM

0
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Jacob Floyd
Writer / Videographer
1252

...but what's to stop Michael from taking a trip to Thailand for emergency penile enlargement surgery?

At this point my guess would be nothing. Absolutely nothing.

November 4, 2014 at 7:17PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Why don't you point out a specific example frame that proves our still frames are not as good as the Red One MX. Just pick two frames and post a link here or email them to me. It makes much more sense to discuss a specific example.

Again, I am willing to rent you a Red One MX for a day and let you pick the locations and the shots and I'll shoot the same things. Then we post the final, graded footage and let the people on this forum decide. I think you know instinctively that your footage won't look enough better than Vizzywig 8xHD for it to matter. I can't think of any other reason why you won't take me up on this generous offer.

You keep mentioning a mountain of facts. If the facts are so clear, and if I am willing to pay all of the costs and let you make all of the rules, why are you so afraid of putting your facts to the test in a real-world camera test.

You know what Tony, I'll even rent you a Red Epic Dragon for a day so you can show the world how much "better" you can make that camera look in a real-life shooting scenario than I can make Vizzywig 8xHD look in the same scenario.

How about it?

November 5, 2014 at 4:22PM

3
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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

No Michael. I know instinctively it's not worth my time. For the various FACTS I've stated previously. Again, you are the one making the claims that nobody else but you believes. Go ahead and look through the comments on this article and the last one. The majority of people on here (your actual customer base) do not believe you. The burden of proof is yours alone.

Here are the facts ...again:

1.) The lens. The iPhone lens can't compete with higher grade lenses available for RED (and other 4K cameras). This is no me expressing opinion Michael. This is simply a matter of engineering and physics.

2.) The sensor. Simply put, the photosites on an iPhone sensor are simply too small to compete with larger 4K camera sensors. Noise and light gathering are extremely compromised. Again, this is not opinion. This is fact.

3.) Encoder. The encoder in the iPhone is sub-consumer camera level. Fact, not opinion.

4.) Codec. This is the last and probably least important part of of the process. The one you seem to think matters above all else regardless of the facts staring you in the face. RedCode is more efficient than your JPG solution. You will never get a RAW workflow from your JPGS. Ever. The look is baked in and the look is typically iPhone-like. Even if you think H264 is worse than JPG (try editing a JPG in photoshop and see how quickly it degrades) you're simply avoiding the obvious, the efficiency of the compression algorithm in concert with a good backend encoder. Even if your JPGS somehow managed to work some sort of compression miracle you've still got garbage lens, garbage sensor, and garbage encoder to get though before an image is outputted.

These are all facts you are either ignorant of or willfully avoiding to acknowledge in order to sell your overpriced product.

Continuing to propose some sort of lame-brained shootout in the face of these FACTS only illuminates your desperation. Get a grip Michael. Stop treating people on here like they are morons. Embrace your customer base and sell your product for a reasonable price.

November 5, 2014 at 4:49PM

8
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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

I thought you were taking two months away from this discussion?

You keep talking about the technical specifications. All consumers and viewers really care about is the final visual result they can see on a 4K television or projected in 2K in a theater.

Your hesitation has nothing to do with this being a waste of time or you wouldn't spend so much of your time answering here on this forum. You are hesitant to take the reins of a Red Epic Dragon in a real-world filming situation against Vizzywig 8xHD on an iPhone 5S because of how similar the end result will look to most consumers and viewers.

ONE. I agree that PL mount (and Canon/Nikon, etc.) mount cameras have a huge advantage in the range of Lens options available. However, those lenses often cost thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. There are several excellent lens options for the 5S if you need wide angle or telephoto. I am not trying to say those compare to Ultra Primes, just saying the results are amazingly comparable to most viewers considering the enormous cost difference.

TWO - You talk about the iPhone 5S 8MP sensor as if it is a toy. It is the product of incredible engineering and mass economies of scale. The iPhone 5S still photo camera is being used by major fortune 500 companies for print catalogues, posters and fashion show shoots. I agree that such a small sensor shouldn't be able to perform as well as it does against the larger Red One MX sensor but that technology is a few years old and they didn't manufacture and spread the cost of R&D across 100 million of them like they did with the iPhone 5S.

Why don't we let you shoot a few common scenarios with a Red Epic while I shoot the same scenes with Vizzywig 8xHD on a 5S. Let everyone look at them side by side together. Embarrass me, I don't care. I think you are afraid you might look silly when you can't get an Epic Dragon shot to come out looking substantially better than an iPhone 5S shot.

THREE - Encoder? Do you mean Apple's code that saves the 3MB JPG images to disk from the raw camera sensor output? That is probably some of the most sophisticated image processing code in the world. No one else has ever made such a small 8MP sensor with a plastic lens look so amazingly good. I agree the H.264 encoder isn't as good as Red's Encoder. That's why I convert our JPG image sequences to TIFF format and use Red's .RED encoder for my RED RAY PLAYER for optimal quality. You can do the same for best results.

FOUR - The results speak for themselves Tony. We've had plenty of people tell us the tests we made favor the iPhone 5S and Vizzywig 8xHD. You have your own opinion but you can't even find two comparison frames to prove what you are saying and you refuse to put your skills to the test.

$50 is a reasonable price. Grip that.

November 5, 2014 at 6:37PM

4
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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

That's where you are missing the point Tony. It's always been about still frames. The higher the quality of each still frame, and the more we can capture per second at the user-preferred shutter speed, the better the 4K video will be. As mentioned above, we are achieving 30fps on the new iPad Air 2 in our internal testing and the iOS 8.1 update live in the store today allows users to manually set a slower shutter speed.

November 5, 2014 at 4:09PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Guys,

Michael clearly doesn't want to listen to his actual customer base in an attempt to seek out an imaginary one. In an imaginary world where people are desperate to be flying multiple drones with iPhones attached capturing 3 minutes of a child's birthday party with 4K JPGS! All being controlled from an iPad where they can (hopefully) cut together a 60 second clip to upload to youtube.

In all honesty. I think the 4K pipeline Michaels TEAM (trust me his programming team are the real brains here) created for the iPhone is pretty neat. Not at all practical for any real world professional usage, but neat none the less. I sincerely hope they got paid well before hand. I imagine any backend deal would have any programmer/designer furious at this point.

'sigh'... Well, it's been fun guys. I've said all I can say. I'll see you back here in a couple months when Michael changes the name and price of the app again. I'm guessing maybe... $19.99? That sound about right Michael? Sorry you have to learn things the hard way.

Some day Michael you (or your competitor) will get my $5.00 (along with many other filmmakers). Until then, talk to ya next time!

November 4, 2014 at 7:33PM, Edited November 4, 7:33PM

2
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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

We listen very closely to our customer base. Email our support address and you'll see how quick we are to listen and respond. Please let us know your suggestions for improvement. We've already added several amazing features for the next update by popular request.

Vizzywig 8xHD has already grossed more in the first 7 days than 90% of mobile apps earn in their lifetime.

I am looking forward to putting Vizzywig 8xHD running on the new iPad Air 2 up against a Red Epic Dragon in the hands of esteemed professional filmmaker Tony Tibbetts whenever he accepts the challenge. We will both post the footage for this community to debate and discuss.

The future is changing guys. Vizzywig 8xHD on an iPhone 5S is to the Red Epic Dragon what Photoshop 1.0 was to the Quantel Paintbox. It's simply a matter of years measured on a single hand. Mark my words.

November 5, 2014 at 4:39PM

2
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avatar
Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Repost, because Michael can't take the time to read other comments:

No Michael. I know instinctively it's not worth my time. For the various FACTS I've stated previously. Again, you are the one making the claims that nobody else but you believes. Go ahead and look through the comments on this article and the last one. The majority of people on here (your actual customer base) do not believe you. The burden of proof is yours alone.

Here are the facts ...again:

1.) The lens. The iPhone lens can't compete with higher grade lenses available for RED (and other 4K cameras). This is not me expressing opinion Michael. This is simply a matter of engineering and physics.

2.) The sensor. Simply put, the photosites on an iPhone sensor are simply too small to compete with larger 4K camera sensors. Noise and light gathering are extremely compromised. Again, this is not opinion. This is fact.

3.) Encoder. The encoder in the iPhone is sub-consumer camera level. Fact, not opinion.

4.) Codec. This is the last and probably least important part of of the process. The one you seem to think matters above all else regardless of the facts staring you in the face. RedCode is more efficient than your JPG solution. You will never get a RAW workflow from your JPGS. Ever. The look is baked in and the look is typically iPhone-like. Even if you think H264 is worse than JPG (try editing a JPG in photoshop and see how quickly it degrades) you're simply avoiding the obvious, the efficiency of the compression algorithm in concert with a good backend encoder. Even if your JPGS somehow managed to work some sort of compression miracle you've still got garbage lens, garbage sensor, and garbage encoder to get though before an image is outputted.

These are all facts you are either ignorant of or willfully avoiding to acknowledge in order to sell your overpriced product.

Continuing to propose some sort of lame-brained shootout in the face of these FACTS only illuminates your desperation. Get a grip Michael. Stop treating people on here like they are morons. Embrace your customer base and sell your product for a reasonable price.

November 5, 2014 at 4:53PM

0
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avatar
Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Repost: Same Reply as above. Not sure why Tony thinks he needs to copy and paste two copies:

I thought you were taking two months away from this discussion?
You keep talking about the technical specifications. All consumers and viewers really care about is the final visual result they can see on a 4K television or projected in 2K in a theater.
Your hesitation has nothing to do with this being a waste of time or you wouldn't spend so much of your time answering here on this forum. You are hesitant to take the reins of a Red Epic Dragon in a real-world filming situation against Vizzywig 8xHD on an iPhone 5S because of how similar the end result will look to most consumers and viewers.
ONE. I agree that PL mount (and Canon/Nikon, etc.) mount cameras have a huge advantage in the range of Lens options available. However, those lenses often cost thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. There are several excellent lens options for the 5S if you need wide angle or telephoto. I am not trying to say those compare to Ultra Primes, just saying the results are amazingly comparable to most viewers considering the enormous cost difference.
TWO - You talk about the iPhone 5S 8MP sensor as if it is a toy. It is the product of incredible engineering and mass economies of scale. The iPhone 5S still photo camera is being used by major fortune 500 companies for print catalogues, posters and fashion show shoots. I agree that such a small sensor shouldn't be able to perform as well as it does against the larger Red One MX sensor but that technology is a few years old and they didn't manufacture and spread the cost of R&D across 100 million of them like they did with the iPhone 5S.
Why don't we let you shoot a few common scenarios with a Red Epic while I shoot the same scenes with Vizzywig 8xHD on a 5S. Let everyone look at them side by side together. Embarrass me, I don't care. I think you are afraid you might look silly when you can't get an Epic Dragon shot to come out looking substantially better than an iPhone 5S shot.
THREE - Encoder? Do you mean Apple's code that saves the 3MB JPG images to disk from the raw camera sensor output? That is probably some of the most sophisticated image processing code in the world. No one else has ever made such a small 8MP sensor with a plastic lens look so amazingly good. I agree the H.264 encoder isn't as good as Red's Encoder. That's why I convert our JPG image sequences to TIFF format and use Red's .RED encoder for my RED RAY PLAYER for optimal quality. You can do the same for best results.
FOUR - The results speak for themselves Tony. We've had plenty of people tell us the tests we made favor the iPhone 5S and Vizzywig 8xHD. You have your own opinion but you can't even find two comparison frames to prove what you are saying and you refuse to put your skills to the test.
$50 is a reasonable price. Grip that.

November 5, 2014 at 6:38PM

2
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avatar
Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Yawn... same old nonsense.

Nothing but subjective assessments that go against every known fact regarding sensors, lenses, and encoding. Michael when are you going to get it through your head that the burden of proof is up to you. If you truly want a legit comparison with a known impartial pixel peeper (I suggested Andrew Reid in the older forum, but you conveniently ignored that) I have no interest in wasting my time with your app, when I have paying jobs to attend to. Why not have an impartial source that does this for a living?

Lens is garbage and you admit most people won't notice. You're absolutely right! That's what makes it consumer, not professional.

The sensor is a toy. A well engineered toy, but a toy none the less. It was never designed for anything more than consumer (not professional use)

The encoding, while pretty good for a camera phone is still consumer grade. Why? Because of the simple fact that it was never intended for anything other than consumer use.

"We've had plenty of people tell us the tests we made favor the iPhone 5S and Vizzywig 8xHD."

Wow! faceless random people that could be anybody, even possibly made up by you! Sir you've convinced me of the veracity of your arguments with this comment alone! ...not.

Favor it over what? What people are saying this?

Nice Try!

Guess what? Still, no one on here believes you. I wonder why that is? Actually I don't. That's a question for you to ponder Michael.

November 6, 2014 at 6:35PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Hey Everybody!

Looks like ProCam 2 just updated and it has an in-app purchase to upgrade to 4k.

Not sure what the price is. Anybody wanna bet it's not even close $50?

Anybody care that it's not a bunch of strung together JPGs?

Yeah, didn't think so.

November 7, 2014 at 12:32AM

1
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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Check the ProCam 2 files yourself in Photoshop or AE. The file format is Photo JPG.
The resolution is 3264x1836 not 3840x2160.

The resolution, color and bit depth are all lacking compared to Vizzywig 8xHD and there are a lot more compression artifacts.

Additionally...

Regarding ProCam 2..
No 4K editing
No YouTube 4K upload or Vimeo 4K sharing
No 4K multi-camera recording or editing
No 4K titles, lower thirds or 4K scrolling credits
No music backgrounds or audio editing
No access to RGB still images

November 8, 2014 at 10:33AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

"Regarding ProCam 2..
No 4K editing
No YouTube 4K upload or Vimeo 4K sharing
No 4K multi-camera recording or editing
No 4K titles, lower thirds or 4K scrolling credits
No music backgrounds or audio editing
No access to RGB still images"

NO body cares about any of those things Michael.

November 8, 2014 at 7:59PM

6
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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

People definitely care about editing Tony. Even if only basic in and out point trims.

People don't want to have to connect their device to a computer and offload files to be able to post 4K to YouTube or Vimeo.

Mostly though, the people on this forum, care about quality and being able to grade their footage. ProCam 2 isn't recording 4K resolution, the gradients fall apart, there are bad compression artifacts around areas of detail and the data rate is only about 12MB per second vs. 72MB per second in Vizzywig 8xHD.

We are working on iPhone 6 and 6 Plus support but we will not announce it or claim it until it is the VERY BEST it can possibly be. We could use the same shortcut ProCam 2 is using, which takes 5 minutes. We are not competing against Android 4K phones or against apps like ProCam 2 that use device presets, we are aiming for quality that can be cut in with footage from the Red EPIC Dragon. Every pixel matters, every bit matters.

November 9, 2014 at 9:16PM

10
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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Hey Michael. Nice job on talking down the competition. Let me introduce my self. I'm the lead developer on ProCam 2. First, let's be clear about one thing. The iPhone's 8MP sensor produces 3264x2448 resolution images. This means that your claims of native 4K resolution are a blatant lie. What your doing is upscaling each image from 3264x1836 to 3840x2160 before encoding the video, while we encode the video at 3264x1836 and then upscale to 3840x2160. Our method produces the same results but much more efficiently.

November 10, 2014 at 4:32PM

3
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Majed Azzam
Co-Fouder, RedEye
234

Hello Majed,

Our quality is much higher and you know that. I am certain you have compared. Compression sacrifices resolution and quality. Do you want to compare footage? I'm more than willing to put our app to the test against yours. Your claimed "efficiency" comes at the cost of compression artifacts, blotchy gradients and aliasing on text and other smooth and sharp edges.

If you were capturing full 8MP photos, there would be a shutter sound. If you've replaced the sound file with a silent one, you are in violation of Apple policy. There's no "legal" way around the shutter sound on 8MP capture. So which is it?

We have not told any lies. Our 4K ANA mode has been explained. We have more than enough vertical resolution to claim 4K in that mode.

Have you read our iTunes Description? We are very clear about what we are doing and what we are claiming. In fact, our iTunes Description is essentially the documentation on this entire concept. Your team is claiming "4K UltraHD Video" without the detailed mathematical explanations our description provides. Your In-App purchase is titled "4K UltraHD Video" which is misleading and deceptive. You are not even scaling up the 3264x1836, you are just changing the resolution of the wrapper meta data. When you open your movie files in Adobe Photoshop or After Effects and check image size, they are clearly 3264x1836 yet you are telling users they are 3840x2160 without any disclaimer.

In addition, you are claiming 30fps on iPhone 6 Plus but iLounge reported today that you are only doing 15-25fps at best. Here's an excerpt from their article:

"Unfortunately, ProCam 2’s actual performance on an iPhone 6 Plus typically reached only 15 to 25FPS during our testing, with a noticeably laggy shutter during recording"

Who is telling the lie?

November 10, 2014 at 8:50PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

It's hilarious that you think and iPhone with JPG encoding can cut with a Red with RedCode and a good lens.

F**king hilarious man. You keep me laughing Michael. I appreciate that.

November 10, 2014 at 5:32PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Don't you at least have some desire to shoot for a day for free with a fully kitted Epic Dragon Tony? Even if you are busy with paying jobs, it would seem that would be worth your time especially if you get to pick the locations and shots and keep the footage for your reel.

Stop laughing already and take the challenge. Just think of how stupid you can make me look when you post your Epic Dragon footage and I post my Vizzywig 8xHD footage for this community to compare and debate.

November 10, 2014 at 8:55PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

I have iphone 6 , so the only solution for now is Procam...
IF you can make this app for 6 and 6 plus, i will get it!

November 9, 2014 at 6:06AM, Edited November 9, 6:06AM

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We are working on it John. We have finally achieved 30fps on the iPad Air 2 and have increased the fps on iPhones 5S so we are hopeful that we will be able to do the same on the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus soon.

Open the ProCam 2 footage in Photoshop though, really. Check the resolution, it's 3264x1836. Shoot a sunset and another daylight scene with lots of detail and see how the gradients in the sky and edges around text fall apart with the lower bit rate and substantial JPG compression artifacts.

November 9, 2014 at 9:22PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Vizzywig claims of encoding in native 4K resolution are false. The iPhone's 8MP sensor produces 3264x2448 resolution images. Vizzywig is upscaling each image from 3264x1836 to 3840x2160 before encoding the video, while we encode the video at 3264x1836 and then upscale to 3840x2160. Our method produces the same results but much more efficiently.

November 10, 2014 at 4:35PM, Edited November 10, 4:35PM

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Majed Azzam
Co-Fouder, RedEye
234

Please carefully read our official iTunes Description for Vizzywig 8xHD again. You'll see that we are completely transparent and 100% honest about what we are doing and what we are claiming.

Then carefully read ProCam 2's iTunes Descripton and What's new text. Do you disclose that you are saving out 3264x1836 Photo JPG files whose meta data wrapper has been altered to say 3840x2160? Importing the files yields 3264x1836.

Regarding our claims of 4K resolution, do you understand what we are doing with the Moondog Labs Anamorphic Lens to get 4352x2448 out of the 3264x2448 sensor? We definitely have the vertical resolution to claim UltraHD in the 4K ANA mode. h

Have you carefully studied our public tests against the Red One MX? Have you compared our still frames against your still frames?

November 10, 2014 at 9:02PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Vizzywig's claims of encoding in native 4K resolution are false. The iPhone's 8MP sensor produces 3264x2448 resolution images. Vizzywig is upscaling each image from 3264x1836 to 3840x2160 before encoding the video, while we encode the video at 3264x1836 and then upscale to 3840x2160. Our method produces the same results but much more efficiently.

Now about the editing capabilities, we don't think they are worth an additional $45!

November 10, 2014 at 4:40PM

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Majed Azzam
Co-Fouder, RedEye
234

Oh Snap!

Majed! Love your app man. Any chance we can get higher bitrates and shutter speed control in future updates? That would make your app pretty much perfect.

Your pricing and features are exactly what people are looking for when it comes to an app like this. Michael could definitely benefit taking a page out of your book.

November 10, 2014 at 5:29PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

Compare the quality and resolution yourself Tony. Do you still need that promo code?

Seems like ProCam 2 has done nothing more than take a page out of our book... using a low resolution copy machine.

November 10, 2014 at 9:06PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Thanks Tony. Glad you're enjoying ProCam.

It's very easy for us to increase bitrates and we are considering adding a higher bitrate option in the next update. It is not rocket science, as Michael makes it out to be! For us, the most important goal was to find the right balance between video quality and practicality. After all, we are talking about shooting a 4K video on a smart phone with limited storage.

In-terms of shutter speed, ProCam offers 3 standard frame rate options and a user defined one.

November 11, 2014 at 12:57AM

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Majed Azzam
Co-Fouder, RedEye
234

In 4K ANA mode, with the Moondog Labs Lens, we are capturing full 3264x2448 RGB still photos at a data rate of 3MB per second. Then we desqueeze the anamorphic frames to 4352x2448 and scale DOWN to 3840x2160. The vertical resolution key to UltraHD is 2160p, we have 2448 scaled down to 2160. Please do your homework before making false accusations publicly Majed.

Also keep in mind the effect that compression has on resolution. I can prove that a 3MB JPG from an 8MP sensor has more resolution than a 500KB JPG from a 12MP sensor.

November 10, 2014 at 9:11PM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Michael, with all do respect, that's a very weak argument. Vizzywig 8xHD without the $160 anamorphic lens add on produces the same quality videos as ProCam. The only difference is that we don't try to conceal our methodology.

About JPEG compression, it's very easy to use a higher JPEG quality and increase bitrates. However, for us, the most important goal was to find the right balance between video quality and practicality. After all, we are talking about shooting 4K videos on a smart phone with limited storage.

By the way, we'd appreciate it if you could remove your 1 star review on the App Store. It's very unprofessional. We have refrained from doing the same.

Thanks.

November 11, 2014 at 1:20AM

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Majed Azzam
Co-Fouder, RedEye
234

Actually, Vizzywig 8xHD produces much higher quality Majed. Our iTunes description is clear about the 3264x2448. We aren't claiming 4K UltraHD like your description is. Update the name of your In-App purchase and your iTunes Description.

If you are able to capture frames at the same quality as we are and maintain the frame rates, why don't you just give users a setting to change the JPG quality setting like we do. If you cannot maintain the frame rates and match our quality level, you should disclose that to your users.

Look. I am glad to see competition. It's good for both of us. I bought your app because we do not yet support 30fps on the iPhone 6 and my personal phone is an iPhone 6. I was looking forward to using your app on my iPhone 6 for now to shoot 4K. However, I could not manually set the shutter speed or the JPG quality and there was no way in your app to upload 4K to YouTube or Vimeo so I had to connect to my Mac and import the file. When I opened in Photoshop, and checked image size, it was 3264x1836 rather than the promised 3840x2160. I realize it takes time to resample up every frame but if you don't do it, I have to do it before I can upload to YouTube in 4K.

More importantly though, I compared the quality. Of course I would want to know if your app is producing the same quality as my app. But it isn't, I shot several scenes with both apps and several issues stand out. In particular the resolution isn't the same. That could be because of lower JPG compression or because you aren't actually capturing 8MP RGB still images. Second is the aliasing around text and smooth objects and third is how gradients fall apart in the sky. If you can fix that, I'll concede that your app has the same quality as ours. Please address shutter sound issue.

The reason we have priced our app so high is because it is doing much more than just using AssetWriter to write frames from the buffer to a movie file. The original full resolution, individual RGB frames at 3MB each are important to us. These give us a completely non-destructive still images editing workflow. If we only save movie files while recording, we would lose resolution and quality each time we process during editing and export.

Vizzywig 8xHD has the following features your ProCam 2 app lacks.

1. Preservation of full resolution RGB still images up to 3MB each.
2. Full Non-Linear editing and finishing in 4K. This is worth $50 alone.
3. Manual Value Controls for Shutter Speed, ISO, Gain, Temperature and Focus.
4. 4K titles multiple fonts and colors.
5. 4K lower-thirds overlays multiple fonts and colors.
6. 4K scrolling credits with multiple fonts and colors.
7. Direct export and sharing in 4K to YouTube and Vimeo.
8. Multi-Camera 4K recording with sound synch across devices.
9. 4K Multi-Camera live switching and switch editing.
10. Sound volume editing, mixing and background music.

I was honestly looking forward to using your app on my iPhone 6 until we add support. When I realized the files were only 3264x1836 (not resampled up) and not 30fps and not the same quality as our app and no way to set manual shutter speed to 1/60th, and no way to upload to YouTube or Vimeo, I was disappointed as a customer and gave your app 1-star as a consumer. If you fix these things, I will give your app 5 stars because even without all of our 4K editing features, it would be worth $7.

November 11, 2014 at 7:50AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

Hey Michael. Thanks for your comprehensive reply.

We both know that iPhone's 8MP sensor is limited to 3264x2448 and that we are both upscaling. But in your review on the App Store and your comments here, the only point that you inaccurately stressed was that ProCam renders videos at 3264x1836 while Vizzywig produces 4K resolution (3840x2160) natively. You mention this point over and over in your comments. This again suggests that you are misleading users.

With regards to our in-app purchase's title, your app came out as Vizzywig 4K and was renamed 8xHD, which in exactly the same as 4K Ultra HD.

First, you argued that with a $160 ad on lens, your app achieves 4K resolution natively. Apart from the cost, nowhere in your description do you mention that this is a requirement to achieve 4K. Then you started de-emphasizing resolution and focusing on JPEG compression, making it sound like rocket science. It's one line of code!

We deliberately reduced our bitrate after reading reviews about Vizzywig and user comments. No one wants a $50 app that can't shoot more than 5 min of video on a 64GB model!

Going back and forth is a bit pointless as we both feel very strongly about our apps as it should be.

Again, we would appreciate it if you would remove your review from the App Store. We make it our policy not to rate / review competing apps whether we like them or are unimpressed with them.

We wish you all the best going forward.

November 11, 2014 at 9:51AM

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Majed Azzam
Co-Fouder, RedEye
234

Full 4K editing workflow and distribution, multi-camera support and pro audio on an iPhone or iPad is significantly more complicated than writing frames to a movie file Majed.

When someone else releases a $0.99 app that does only what your app does, you'll understand why we didn't stop at 3264x1836 low bitrate recording. As you said yourself, what you are doing is not rocket science. The rest of the workflow, what we are doing, is significantly more complicated. Just try to add it and see.

November 11, 2014 at 8:58AM

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Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
790

"Full 4K editing workflow and distribution, multi-camera support and pro audio on an iPhone or iPad is significantly more complicated than writing frames to a movie file Majed."

Good lord! Michael you keep on bleating the same nonsense. Only the smallest fraction of your customer base will care about that crap. Especially since your data path does nothing but eat space. You need room to edit and process these obnoxiously large data files. There's no getting around this.

You're like the Terminator of promotional BS. Maybe if you just keep at it people will believe this garbage.

You've done nothing but distort and sometimes even outright lie about the value of your product. I know my way around app development. I'm also a shooter with 20+ years of experience. I've shown where, why, and how your app is lacking. Which in turn points out why it wasn't worth $1000 or even $50. Now somebody who is actively working on apps comes along and provides even more reasons why it isn't worth $50 and you continue to regurgitate the same nonsense.

Then after all of that you resort to dropping a petty 1-Star review on your competition.

Simply pathetic and low of character. Good job pulling back the curtain all the way this time.

I'm gonna give my money to ProCam 2. I'm guessing most others on here plan to do the same. I suggest they do exactly that (or even give MoviePro some love)

November 12, 2014 at 6:48PM, Edited November 12, 6:48PM

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Tony Tibbetts
Director/Cinematographer/Editor
646

I bought yesterday Vizzywig (29€ version) and i must say i'm impressed by the wifi recording of my 3 IOS devices. JUST for this, to make music bands videoclips... my value for this app is 100€.
I, for my reasons, i'm willing to buy Vizzywig 8HD for 50€ (when it drops it's price).
One of the reasons is i'm tired of buying 5€ apps and in the end, they don't listen clients like Michael seems to care. Just for that... my value is 50€.

As for all the comments i read here, i will drop my conclusion to all the intervenients :

Michael Zaletel, i learnt that when our stuff is good, good enough, we magnet the right people... don't worry or lose energy with people which DON'T want the same as you. Your app deserves the price, period. The energy you "lost" here, could be used to benefit better the code or something else related to the app itself.

As for the fantastic Tony Tibbetts, which i assume likes to bash people just for the sake of something, EVEN if you are/were right... it's very sad to see someone bashing someone the way i read. You show no respect at all for a single line of code of Michael app. And i wonder... where is YOUR software, or RESULTS.

In the end... you may have reason or results.

Michael is searching for results... ANY result is better than all your reason.
He is serving everyone who wants to be served... you are bashing someone.

The only "code error" or "lie" i saw here is Michael naivety answering too much to people that DON'T WANT the program already, because they just want other things.

And Michael is right when he says that the consumer, the final client DOENS'T care at all to the technics and hardware nerd specs!
The consumer wants to SEE good or satisfactory results. Period.
Hey, that's Apple thinking and they have success, Nintendo too, the better ones in the world gave complicated things in simple ways!

This topic discussion reminds me music, which is my main passion.
Some argue that vintage hardware is better... some musicians defend it like crazy!
Well, i prefer software! Why? Because i can achieve the same or satisfactory results with less money and without carrying heavy things. Period.
They prefer carrying heavy things and spend LOTS of money.
I prefer to have a better relation between money/practicability .

Back to that magical phrase:
Vintage/Retro people may have reason, i prefer results and i show them live.

Anyway we all have our own world and we can live well in it.

As for the ProCam app, which i have and like, congrats too! Nowadays i use it's filters often.

As for Vizzywig, thanks Michael for creating this piece of software.

April 7, 2015 at 1:24PM, Edited April 7, 1:24PM

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André Santos
Musician and Marketeer
81

Cool. I would also like to recommend you visiting the following website https://college-homework-help.org/blog/homework-app

October 6, 2017 at 8:34AM

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