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September 6, 2011

Sony Prices F65 'True' 4K Camcorder at $65K, to Ship in January

I was in the room at this year's NAB when Sony revealed the F65, and one of my first thoughts was to wonder why it was called the F65 if the F35 was named because its sensor size matched that of 35mm film. With their announcement today that the F65 will retail for $65k, perhaps the camera was named because of target price? Strange. The F65 has the same size sensor as the F35, but upgrades the pixel count to a "true" 4K (I'm putting "true" in quotes because the F65 has a nonstandard pixel array that producers a resolution of 8768 x 2324).

$65K may seem like a lot, and this camera will probably not find its way onto indie sets any time soon, but considering the F35 retailed for well into six figures, this is Sony's attempt to drop their camera to a RED-like price point. While the EPIC-X starts at $30k, for example, that is a "brain only" price; the EPIC-M shooting package, keep in mind, sold for $58k and the mass-produced EPIC-X cuts less than $10k off that. Sony and RED are now officially competitors, and not just at the high end; I mentioned them squaring off in January regarding the $6k and $12k price points as well. Perhaps Sony has something to do with RED's latest philosophy change, who are now claiming they "will only announce new things when they are done and ready to ship." This feels like the third or fourth time RED has claimed such a change in strategy, so I'll believe it when I see it! Sony's F65 press release, where they "officially raise the curtain on the F65" (what was the NAB event, then?) is below; also hit the following link for the PDF brochure.

Link: Sony F65 Brochure (PDF)

Sony F65 Press Release

LOS ANGELES, Sept. 6, 2011 -- Sony Electronics officially raised the curtain on its F65 CineAlta(TM) digital motion picture camera system, ushering in a new era of digital cinematography. Before a select audience of American Society of Cinematographers (ASC) members, press and high-profile industry professionals, Sony screened new F65 footage shot by leading DPs, demonstrated new features and announced its roll-out plan for the revolutionary camera, including availability and a surprisingly accessible price of just $65,000 (with viewfinder).

Announced here only days before the F65 will be shown to a worldwide audience at the IBC conference in Amsterdam, the new camera clearly signals Sony's commitment to the Hollywood community and to developing the production technologies content creators need.

The F65 derives true 4K resolution - and beyond - at the point of image capture. "4K" resolution is 4096 x 2160, which is more than four times greater than the full HD (1920x1080) spec. Its unique 8K image sensor, with approximately 20 total megapixels, offers higher image fidelity than any other digital cinema production camera. With 16-bit Linear RAW File output capability, the F65 creates the gateway to an end-to-end 4K file-based mastering workflow.

"This is the camera Hollywood has asked for, designed specifically for filmmakers," said Alec Shapiro, senior vice president of Sony's Professional Solutions of America group. "The ability to shoot content in true native 4K resolution lets filmmakers capture more of what they're seeing through the lens to fully realize their vision. The F65's incredible imager captures more data, which translates to more information that can be put up on the screen. And access to an open and inclusive platform enables the integration of an F65 file-based workflow into other systems, creating truly exciting, and limitless, production opportunities."

Sony first announced the F65 at the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) show in April, and the camera has already distinguished itself by offering superb resolution, incredible dynamic range and the truest color reproduction of any available camera.

With its latest enhancements and features, the F65's capabilities now include:

  • 14 stops High Dynamic Range with much wider color gamut
  • Rotary shutter model (F65RS) to remove motion artifacts; four ND Filter built-in with rotary shutter.
  • Wi-fi operation for remote control operation from tablet devices (including the Android-based Sony Tablet S and Apple iPad)
  • HD-SDI output with viewing LUT for on-set monitoring with focus assist zoom
  • 60 Minutes of 16 bit Linear RAW file recording onto a 1TB SRMemory card at 24FPS

Sony also introduced a dockable SRMemory recorder - model SR-R4 - which attaches to the camera to record directly to an SRMemory card of 256 GB, 512 GB or 1TB capacity with data security and sustained throughput of 5.5 Gbps.

Sony is now unveiling a powerful new capability for the F65/SR-R4 combination - the ability to switch recording between 16-bit linear RAW File and MPEG-4 SStP File modes. Users can configure the camera on a project-by-project basis, selecting either 16-bit linear RAW File for ultimate quality acquisition or high speed operation at up to 120FPS, or MPEG-4 SStP File (HDCAM SR native) for exceptional quality HD recording. MPEG-4 SStP File also provides full compatibility for viewing, offline and post production using either the free Sony PC or MAC viewer or products using the new Sony Software Development Kit.

The F65 is in high demand by the motion picture production industry, and Sony is now taking orders for the new camera. The first rental company in Hollywood to take delivery will be Otto Nemenz International.

"The F65 is more than just a new camera; it's a complete system and a revolutionary approach to the digital production workflow," said company president Otto Nemenz. "My customers are looking for the latest and greatest, and this technology more than fits the bill. I'm proud to be the first to carry this camera."

New CineAlta(TM) Branding

Since its introduction more than 10 years ago, the CineAlta brand has come to represent the benchmark for the highest quality digital cinematography acquisition. Now, to coincide with the launch of the F65, Sony is introducing a new CineAlta logo, signifying acquisition quality at "Beyond HD" resolution and reflecting the open nature of the F65 and its file based approach.

The new logo is designed to resemble the symbol for infinity, as the F65 with its new image sensor makes true 4K production real today and provides viable image acquisition for many years and future applications to come. The logo will be applied to all Sony system components that enable digital imaging beyond the 1920 x 1080 HD format.

"From the success of Sony 4K projectors which are driving digital cinema in movie theaters and creating demand for 4K content, to the staggering creative possibilities offered by the F65, no other company can deliver the total 4K lens to theater experience that Sony can," Shapiro said. Sony has already installed more than 9,000 4K projectors in cinemas worldwide.

The F65 digital motion picture camera line-up is scheduled to be available in January direct from Sony: The F65, with viewfinder for $65,000; the F65RS (Built in Rotary Shutter Model), with viewfinder for $77,000; and SR-R4 dockable recorder for $20,000. All will also be available through Sony authorized resellers.

Your Comment

41 Comments

Alright Sony, ramp it up! I still love the Epic. Form factor is such a key thing these days.

September 6, 2011

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OK, so $65K plus $20K for the dockable recorder... and no media.
And what's the maximum frame rate again?

While I love the fact the big boys are finally waking up to the inevitable 4K+ future, I still don't see this as a serious competitor to the Epic - except in brand recognition like the ARRI Alexa.

Yes it makes fabulous images (I saw the demo at NAB), but form factor is a huge element. There's no need to keep building cameras the size of a Panaflex Millenium anymore.

September 6, 2011

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Jack Frost

How did I not mention the ARRI ALEXA in this post? Oops.

Sony's going for some interesting differences -- 16-bit RAW, 8K sensor -- and the images I saw at NAB in 4K looked fine. But it didn't look better than the EPIC to me... we'll find out what it's capable of in January, I suppose.

September 6, 2011

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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

Fans of rolling shutter CMOS cameras and those shooters specifically looking for the rolling shutter artifacts will probably opt for the Red and Arri offerings. Whereas folks who have been shooting mostly with motion picture film cameras will appreciate the F65's advantage of having a mechanical shutter that will prevent any jello and related RS artifacts to be recorded in the first place.

September 9, 2011

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Stunko

Right, $65,000 for the 8K camera plus the new OLED color viewfinder. The $85,000 shooters package that folks are signing up with Band Pro include five different items, for example you can shoot w. the F65 while someone else is copying from the SR memory card using the SR Data Transfer Unit. Unlike Red, Sony's F65 will probably have fewer than three dozens or so "must-have accessories" for it from the camera's manufacturer.

It is also good to compare apples to apples, so comparing a film camera style electro-mechanical shutter camera (F65) that cannot possible give you flash banding, jello, skew, bent verticals, and related RS artifacts to rolling shutter cameras is really like comparing Bentleys to Smarts, no?

September 8, 2011

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Stunko

This looks amazing.

and why do people bag on the form factor. I personally think this form factor is far superior than the epic.

this is a proffessional level form factor, comfortable on the shoulder and ready to shoot. Rather than building up a system of parts, on this we have an all in one ready to shoot, shoulder rig included, system. Far beyond the DSLR ergos of the Epic.

Perfect for the handleheld effect of old, instead of the current DSLR wobble and shaky cam we see nowcaer

This camera looks amazing!! Not at a DIY level, but still amazing

September 7, 2011

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isaac

Interesting stuff for sure. I'm really excited to see some of the 16 bit linear RAW stuff, but, again, as with sony, without it's extras (i.e., the recorder) goes from being just about affordable to expensive again. I mean, if you want the full system you're talking about $100 grand still, and the lowest package without the (what i perceive to be necessary) recorder is still $65 grand. I guess if i had to go "budget" i'd to the $65,000 plus the $20k recorder rounding out at $85,000 which, okay, still not as cheap as an epic without nearly as many media options (is there no pro-res option here? MPEG-4 but no pro-res? what?)

September 7, 2011

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If Red can deliver an Epic package at around $20,000, they might be able to compete with the F65's $85K five-piece package price. But otherwise -- not.

September 7, 2011

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Stunko

?????? I'm more than confused by this statement. I just outlined how in no way is Sony really showing it has a better camera coming than an epic. Different? sure. Better? Uhh, I'd say it may be debatable just because different people prefer different things. however, please justify how Red would have to come $60k under in order to some how be a better camera than the F65, though the specs are better

September 8, 2011

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Well, one big difference between the two are, Sony's F65 is for real, whereby as usual, the Red Epic is "out there." Hard to differentiate the head guy's fantasm from actual facts & products. Red as a company may go out of business any day, as so many have in similar situations. It is nothing short of amazing to me how (and why) that company is still in the business, let alone how they are actually MAKING MONEY. On the other hand, I have no worries at all about an outfit such as Sony, Arri, or Panavision going out of business.

NAB 2011 was a good example. Sony had a huge stand with a myriad of products andf prototypes. And Red? First of all, they were in the WRONG BUILDING -- among the post production exhibits, not where all the other camera and accessory mfrs had their stands. Also, at the Red "stand," they showed absolutely no cameras. Instead, their "stand" consisted of a cordoned-off area where a couple of people were getting tattooed. That is all Red had at NAB 2011, all that we could see, at least. Right?

September 8, 2011

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Stunko

i'm gonna go ahead and call troll, and if you're not a troll then you have the horrible logic of one. not to mention, blatant untruths that are more humorous than infuriating

September 9, 2011

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This is a rather poorly written article. Sony and Red has never been "competitors," and they are certainly not competitors now.

Red Epic is so D-E-A-D now, it already missed its own funeral. A Red Epic at up to $12,000 may be of interest to some lower camera budget shooters, but past that price point, one is so much better off going with the Sony F65 CineAlta. Red has no chance in hell now to make a mark, it's all Sony's show from this point forward. Compared to the F65 CineAlta from Sony, a Red camera still comes across as a garage-built experimental.

Re. the "4K footage" -- I was at NAB this year. Sony had shown its 4K footage. Red did not. Big difference, hmmm?

September 7, 2011

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Stunko

I don't even know where to start with this comment. EPIC is dead, seriously? Keep saying that as a huge percentage of hollywood blockbusters you see in theaters over the next two years were shot on it.

EPIC showed 4K footage at NAB this year. I watched it in their theater twice, along with another piece they showed behind closed doors, co-produced with Avid. All projected at 4K. You can see it here in 2K:

http://nofilmschool.com/2011/05/watch-reds-short-film-tattoo-screened/

September 7, 2011

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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

1. Similar features, similar price points, similar markets. Sounds like competitors to me.

2. RED is dead? Alright, if you say so.

3. RED actually did screen TATTOO - a short film - in 4k at this years NAB. Pity you missed it. Apparently it was pretty nice as it convinced Vilmos Zsigmond to choose Epic for his next film.

September 7, 2011

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Michael

Okay, but:

1. Different types of shutters, entirely different memory cards w. entirely different recording and transfer speeds, different bit-rates and codecs, different frame rates, and so on. But otherwise -- pretty much identical cameras, it seems. :-))

2. RED is not dead, I was using the word figuratively, better way to put it would have been that Red and Arri will now have a comeptitor to contend with. Last year at Createasphere here in NYC, I sat through and watched the three short films shot with the just then introduced SRW-9000PL from Sony. Played with the memory card the 9000PL is uses -- same card that the F65 is also getting.

3. A couple of years back Vilmos had DP'd a movie using a Super 16 film camera, but that does not mean that he or the ASC is predicting that Super 16 is the wave of the future.

Re. 4K rez videos and shorts -- well, the first time I saw 4K footage shot with a Red camera was around 2003 or 2004 (camera was not out yet). This was at NAB East at the Jarvitz in NYC, and they used the Sony SXRD-105 (5K lumen output) 4K projector in showing it. It was really not good, of course the projector was not that great back then, either. I remember this event vividly, because the Red honchos were telling the crowd that by the following year, they will have a 4K resolution projector (!!!!), and soon after that, an 8K resolution projector.

Flash-forward some 7 years, and guess what: Red no more has a 4K or 8K digital projector than they have a camera called "Scarlet." Right?

September 9, 2011

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Stunko

As was said earlier, this must just be troll-bait...but I just have to reply because not everyone out there knows what the difference.

1. I said 'similar', not the 'same'. The word similar implies both similarities and differences. That's the difference between 'similar" and the "same'. Hopefully that is appreciated. For instance, The F35 and the Alexa are competitors. They are not exactly the same, but they are similar. Likewise, the F65 and the Epic are competitors. They, too, are similar, but not exactly the same. So the fact that there are differences between the cameras is to be expected. But lets look at those differences.

A. Shutter type - Well, actually the regular F35 does not come with the mechanical shutter. As it turns out, that an optional upgrade, requiring the purchase of the F35RS for an additional $12,000 premium.

B. Memory - both are solid state memory disks. Sony's has to be bigger (1TB) and faster (5Gb/s) because they are not using lossless compression as is RED. So their 4K filesize and datarate is about 17 GB/minute. That alone, right there, makes me want to use a RED instead.

C. Bit-rates and Codecs - Yep, as I said, the Sony shoots RAW while the RED shoots REDCODE. We'll see how big of a difference this makes when the cameras come out, I imagine. No-one can say anything until then. But as I said, there are already professionals in the industry asking Sony to make their own compressed RAW format because of the filesizes and datarates.

D. Frame rates - The RED has more options.

2. Okay, glad we agree you overused hyperbole there a bit. Not sure why you are so excited about the SR memory, though...

3. I didn't say it would be the wave of the future. You had said, sarcastically, "Big difference, hmm?" - implying that 4K was of no real importance and didn't differ in viewing experience from 1080p. I simply noted that it was apparently different enough from the standard for a great DP to want to use it, rather than the standard, for his next work. As to when RED releases its products? That's very simple to mock, and perhaps rightly so. But I'd rather remain focused on what they have released, rather than quibble about dreams.

September 14, 2011

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Michael

Are you a Sony or Arri fanboy? I own an EPIC-M and can tell you it is amazing. I am just waiting on a 4K projector affordable enough to properly show it off. Once the Canon EF mount is released (with electronic automated focus-pull, are you kidding me???) it will smoke any offerings from the competition. Sony and Arri are still charging far too much based on their established brand. The Alexa is $65k for a 2K cam and the Sony is $65k for a 4K cam that down-samples it's footage at lower frame rates. We should all be thanking RED instead of bashing them for stepping into a stagnant space and truly innovating. Competition spurs on better product and now I'm just waiting for the big boys to start pushing Jannard.

And for everyone who complains about on-board audio options, traditional film workflow has audio captured separately. Only broadcast news and documentary needs on-board audio.

Oh yeah, RED offers all software upgrades gratis. There is no more supportive digital cinema community than the one that Jim built.

September 7, 2011

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Chris M

For the space its entering I find the pricing pretty competitive. Red vs. Arri vs. Sony frankly who cares. They all record amazing images and have their various strengths and down falls. As for pricing, in my market the Alexa is certainly commanding a premium in rentals that far exceeds the actual difference in price but that is how supply and demand goes. Hopefully the rental rate for the F65 will be more competitive.

Right now though my favourite camera is F3. Not because I think its the best but because its so often the right tool for the job I'm doing and I can rent the body for $200/day. Not a Sony Fanboy but I have been impressed with their offerings over the last couple of years. Why pay for 4k when the finished project is only going to be seen on the web. I'm not working on the Hobbit and I don't need to use the same gear that they are to make a good product. People often forget that its not the tool but how the person uses it. (wow that could be taken kinda dirty If you can't light a scene or match lighting from one set up to the next, the latest greatest camera isn't going to make you any better.

The one thing I am so over is RED TED and his incessant chatter which is often subtly condescending. The cameras stand on their own. Talk to us again when you have shipping product, referring to Scarlett and Epic-S.

September 7, 2011

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Allan

Exactly right. The Sony PMW-F3 is amazing for what it is, Sony (and Panasonic as well) have some great products, so you can constantly select the "right tool for the right job." Only $200 per day for the body -- wow, that is cheap rental indeed, where are you getting it from?

"Future-proofing" today (for larger budget shows) would most likely entail shooting in 4K, or shooting in 3D 2K, and on the very top echelons, shooting in both 3D and 4K. And of course, 35mm and even Super 16 film is not going anywhere soon.

Re. Red's Jim Jannard, I really believe he is a mental case, or at the very least, he has serious and advanced mental issues. He has a screw lose up there, in other words.

September 9, 2011

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Stunko

Chris, we all have our favorites, and like you said, the bottleneck right now is a dearth of true 4K OLED monitors and 4K DLP and SXRD projectors. For instance, only Barco, Christie, and Sony ship 4K PJs right now, AFAIK, and these are all DCI 2.0 series commercial cinema behemoths priced at $65,000 and up.

So, shooting at 4K is really mostly for ensuring compliance w. future delivery standards and Ultra HDTV specs. If you shoot in 4K now, you are probably extending the shelf-life of your show buy a good 20-years, as if you would have shot it in 1920 x 1080 Full-HD. Of course, if you shoot on 35mm film, you are probably sitting even prettier, as you can already do 8K scans off of today's negatives. So, "state of the art" as far as recording and archiving resolution goes today is probably in the 4K to 8K range, whereas for exhibition, it is a 2K and 4K world out there.

Sony's latest CineAlta-cam will certainly eat some of the money soup that Red was hoping for, but I sort of think that the real "victim" here will be Arri and its three Alexa Blue models. With Red Epic and Sony F65 CineAlta out soon, there will be no possible way for Arri to defend the Alexas' over-inflated pricing structure.

However, I would never buy anything as expensive as a MP or D-film camera from the manufacturer directly. That is why professional equipment houses are there. This is easily done with the likes of Sony, Panasonic, Arri, Weisscam, etc. Not possible with Red. Also, think about this for a second: what of Red as a company folds tomorrow and shuts its online doors (things like that do happen in capitalism, right)? Frankly, since up until now all that company ever made and sold was one single camera and a bunch of proprietary accessories for it, the amazing question is, how can they still afford to be IN business?

September 9, 2011

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Stunko

RED haters continue to amaze me. i don't understand the need for people to never fully embrace any system, especially not a "rouge" company. It's almost like because RED sets out to prove something, people set out to prove they can be stubborn. It's like when people try and argue apple with me but have no apparent reasons for disliking Apple other than, "their cocky!!!" Oh, okay. I don't see that, i see innovation and confidence but okay.

And, just wondering, what are the said downfalls of an Epic? I'm sincerely asking this question.

September 8, 2011

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How about the way OSX has ALWAYS eaten HDDS?! Bringing that gem up brings in bans from Apple boards, howls of indignation and outright denials, not to mention a few Apple fanatics trying to damage me in real life by spreading lies online using my real name after using illegal means to hunt it out. After ten Macs and 14 dead HDDs, I can say for certain that OSX eats HDDs and will continue to do so until users call Apple to task over their serious problems... instead of forgiving Apple their mistakes ad infinitum.

Not to mention the lack of support software for graphics professionals. Nothing to work with bulk files adding and altering metadata. Nothing like a REAL file manager (common in 1989 on the Amiga) for managing thousands or tens of thousands of files. Nothing to seriously automate across many graphics apps (multitasking them) regular operations like on the Amiga with AREXX. And even the few tiny half arsed apps that are available are all shareware when the same apps on Windows are all free and plentiful.

Should we talk about the way that if the graphics apps are available on OSX, it is often YEARS behind the releases on Windows? Should we discuss the way Apple deliberately try to break their competition by updating OSX so Premiere and nVidea cards no longer work?

Nothing to complain about? F'ing BULLSHIT!

September 8, 2011

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Bunny

okay, clearly a lot of what your saying is opinion and you're allowed to have it and the reason i'm so confident that it's opinion rather than cold hard fact (like you'd seem to like it to be) is for a couple of reasons. 1. I know about 20 people with macs, only 3 of those people had hdd crashes, 2 of those were in 2007, the only other one was in 09. Haven't heard from anyone since. I've heard barely any actual complaints about graphics cards especially with people who know how to properly configure their peripherals, you know, like pros, not amateurs. I understand some people have differing opinions, but this doesn't make it fact.

Let's not even mention you kinda missed the point of my post. So you come up with some (far-fetched imo) accusations concerning apple, yet can't tell me how RED does the same thing, which is the point of the post. There's a reason btw Apple is the most successful comp. company in the world; we don't all have 10 HDD fried, and if you did, well, i'd have to ask what you're doing with the computer other than surfing the net atop your stove

September 8, 2011

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Your cold hard facts are anything but. I know a fair few Mac fanatics as well. Their "Pro Use" is email, browsing, and a few hours on Final Cut Pro, not to mention cafe use while typing in Final Draft.

Mac fanatics are posers. They stay well clear of anything truly creative and truly hard work. They do not push their hardware like I do, and like most graphics professionals on Windows and Linux.

Maybe you should read the reports about how Apple broke Premieres Mercury engine in the week following Final Cut Pro X? Oh, is your head too far up Steves cancerous arshole to hear anything other than pro Apple propaganda?!

You used anti Apple people, or your accusation that they have nothing to complain about, as a way to belittle anti RED people. Standard Apple fanatic attack. Use slights and insinuation to try to run down the competition because you do not want to be called out on your one eyed world view!

September 8, 2011

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Bunny

again, i would gladly admit to all of these railings which you seem more than happy and content to spew my way if I didn't absolutely know differently. I'm sorry, i am a professional editor, i walk in circles with professional editors and i read constant notes, journals, books, blogs, editorials, and websites from plenty of professionals who are content to turn from Windows and never turn back. I'm not talking FCP vs PremIere, I'm talking Apple versus stubborn ignoramuses like yourself. Truth is i think you had a secure job somewhere where Windows was integral and when mac came along and people could do more simply what you had to work hard to do; boo too, grow up, get over it. By the way, i didn't say you had nothing to complain about with apple, i said most people can only claim that their cocky. Then there's people like you who take your very biased and, what i perceive to by, hyperbolized circumstances and use them as some kind of pseudo-admissable evidence to berate your fellow editors (if you are one) who clearly can pull their head out of their own butt enough to realize that part of being an adult is learning not to rant and scream about everything that comes to mind and at least have the common decency to see Cancer as something to treat with sobriety instead of using it is as a shlock joke/insult against those you disagree with. To quote pacino, "you're a child."

September 8, 2011

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Also, until you want to talk like a big boy (or girl) i'm done talking with you unless of course you care to speak about what was actually the point of my post: RED is a great camera and generally speaking people can't find specific fault with it, just a general fault which goes unnamed.

September 8, 2011

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Sorry Brennan but nothing Bunny had said qualify as 'opinions.' More like facts of his own actual experiences. Also, I never met a single Windows fanatic. With Apple, looks like about two out of three Apple users are hardcore fanatix, ha-ha-ha! Also there are probably jut as many disillusioned Apple user who junk their machines and switch to Linux or Windows than there are other who move into Apple. As a professional video editor, the MAC OS is probably the poorest one to use these days, no?

Anyhow, instead of using the Mac as your OS, try any distro of Linux. Much better, and you are not stuck with having to buy 2-3 year old Intel-chip computers in shiny white boxes, either. Apple computers are so much better, they already have what, 8 or 9% of the world's personal use computers, and what, almost no % of the world's servers.

September 9, 2011

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Janis

i appreciate your comments Janis, although sometimes i wonder if janis might be a pseudonym. perhaps not, but i'm sorry, a certain set of circumstances with a certain group of people does not cold hard facts make. Numbers don't lie, reviews don't lie. While the numbers might be more positive than the reviews, the ratio of isn't as dramatic as a lot of windows/linux/ubuntu users would have me or others believe. i have used linux and i see in no way how it is superior, but again this is why these are opinions, not facts. and i beg to differ, all mac users tend to be fanatics for their given OS

September 9, 2011

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sorry, meant mac *haters*

September 9, 2011

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Imagine someone making the colossal mistake of picking a RED(!!!!) camera from all the other cameras out there. And then add to this the fact that the same someone would pick an APPLE computer (!!!) and MAC operating system (!!!), instead of one of the many competing options out there. How can one possibly live down this double whammy calamity? It's not easy, if not outright impossible, I should think.

According to the Red web site's self-promotional material, they "lent" numerous "pre-production models" of their latest (more precisely, their second ever) camera to a number of famous people. Times must be tough indeed, when even these "name folks" have to use untested products blindfolded, instead of just renting a tried and trusted camera package from a major equipment rental house.

September 9, 2011

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Stunko

I'm glad to see Sony continue to push the future of digital cinema capture. Not only are they offering the highest resolution capture (8k) they're also solving a problem that all digital cinema camera's have (rolling shutter) with a simple proven technology. Manual rotary shutter borrowed from film camera technology.

What many seem to forget is Sony was doing digital cinema capture years ago and paved the way for companies like RED. I also find it very mature of Sony to solved the rolling shutter issue as they push the resolution to nearly double what is offered currently while keeping the price under $100k.

I like RED, they're products, marketing, and their support for the community but, with the introduction of the F65 it shows that Sony has been really paying attention to what's been happening in the industry and plans on being competitive for years to come.

September 8, 2011

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Chase D

I second that, Chase. If Red was actually developing and delivering cameras instead of moaning and bitching at just about everything and cursing at anyone else who happens to be also in the camera business, they could have and in fact should have come out with something like Sony just did with the F65 CineAlta camera, and come out with it a good three to four years ago. But Red is much bigger at talking the talk than walking the walk, it seems. After about a decade in the camera business, they are just now introducing their SECOND ACTUAL CAMERA, like ever! Wow!!!

For a company that a number of years ago was boldly promising a 128K sensor camera (!!!!), they are moving in reality at a snail's pace indeed.

Re. the CineAlta F65, it is not the first single-chip CMOS camera with a global shutter, just the first with an electro-mechanical shutter design. That is a real state of the art feature, and probably cost them more money to bring about than Red has available in their cash drawer. Yeah, Sony did not just fell off the early morning's first turnip truck. :-))

Re. the stated 8K recording capability, that is definitely there for down the line witgh the F65's new sensor, but not for the present time. The maximum resolution that can be recorded with the camera is 4K. This is not sensor related, but media and recorder limitation derived. This may change soon, however, especially if there is an overwhelming demand by the masses for 8K footage (I don't think that there is, actually). So for now, future-proofing and extending shelf-life or a project is either (A) shooting it digitally in 4K or (B) shooting it on 65mm (or larger image format) film.

Also, for 8K cinema, you would likely need 35mm cine optics with 8,000 to 10,00 horizontal lines of line resolving power. Right now, I think we are talking about 5K-6K for these lenses on the top end.

September 9, 2011

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Stunko

Wow, this thread got weird... I mean, computers and cameras are just tools. You use the one that works for you, right?

September 9, 2011

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Ryan Koo
Founder
Writer/Director

although it would seem i'm fueling the weirdness, i'm honestly not trying to, i just think it somehow got overrun with trolls. if you'll notice though, i tried to bring the discussion back around to much dismay

September 9, 2011

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We know, Brennan.... Sony knows sheite about making digital cameras, and anyone NOT using an Apple computer and the Mac OS is an Internet troll. So be it.

September 10, 2011

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Stunko

no, my good stunko, sony knows plenty about making cameras, they just tend to eat crow and pick people's pockets while doing it. And, as for the troll comments, it's not just anyone really, just anyone that seem sot be commenting on my comments. everyone else has the mental faculties of someone beyond at least huggies. oh well, we can['t all think like adults....so be it

September 12, 2011

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In my experience, folks who refer to others right off as "Internet Trolls" are such bothersome creatures themselves.

Sony F65 CineAlta camera with a color OLED viewfinder is priced at $65,000. If you want the entire shooting package with flash recorder, memory flash card, transfer station, etc tossed in, that can be had for $85,000. Sony is not fleecing anyone or picking anyone's pockets. Sony is not forcing you or anyone else to purchase or rent any of their products, either, which includes their new F65. Furthermore, if these prices are too rich for someone, there are some good pricing still on used Super 8 cams over there on eBay.

September 14, 2011

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Stunko

The thing I like best about the F65 coming out is that there is now a third option for the high end cameras. This is all a good thing. It's not simply Coke® and Pepsi®, or Apple® and PC®. Now the market has a third choice that isn't some small distant also-ran like, I dunno...RC Cola® or Linux® (maybe that's technically a type of "PC"...I don't know...nor do I really care.) I guess to keep up with the brand analogy, it's more like Germany's major car makers...they have 3 viable choices instead of two (BMW/M-B/Audi).

For the fanboys to have some chip on their shoulders against the other manufacturers, it's starting to remind me of the hayseed trailer park crowd with the "I'd rather push my Ford® than drive a Chevy®" (or vice versa) bumper stickers on their trucks... Um...I'll just use any one that works.

Just the way cinematographers will chose different lenses and different film stocks, time and time again in interviews you hear DP's talking about how they all have different palettes and choosing what's right for the particular project, and digital cameras means it puts some of these choices on the cameras (if your registration was good and the cameras had the right features you need (12v or 24v, videotap, variable shutter, illuminated matte lines, frame rate, ramping, chipped lenses with metadata...etc...), excluding these details, all major brands of film camera gave you the same look...now with digital, the camera itself is partially responsible for the look...it's now like the lenses or the stocks...it's one more variable that can give you different looks... To go back to the "palette" analogy again, I just can't picture Da Vinci getting into an argument with Michelangelo about why such and such a brand's colors of paint is superior and why his choice is "better" than the others...it's ludicrous for any serious artist to not want anyone to have choices, and it's just as ludicrous to knock other artists for their choices that they make for their own reasons. The more viable companies there are out there making solid professional tools, the more artists can do with them.

Anyway, with modern digital post, with unimaginative bottom line conscious producers looking for a sellable product, and vacuous trendy directors intentionally or unintentionally going for a "flavor of the month" look, the vast majority of footage from all three of these cameras is gonna look exactly the same anyway... ;)

September 13, 2011

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Daniel Mimura

Biggest problem faced by those of us wanting the purchase or rent this new breed of Super 35mm sensor (app. 27mm diagonal) D-film cameras with PL mounts is the dire lens situation. There is precious few lens makers out there catering at this level, and what they have are routinely mundane glass at amazingly high prices.

Since the East German Jena Zeiss was gobbled up by the West German Carl Zeiss, the Zeiss lens prices have shot through the roof. No competition, see? If you want high contrast and super sharpness, Zeiss is your ticket, however Zeiss glass has to be softened quite a bit for facial close-ups. Very little by way of zooms from Zeiss. Cooke in the U.K. had gone lazy, they are doing primes only with a 6-month waiting list, last I checked. But the famous "Cooke look" is really something else, admittedly. Angenieux is still delivering the zooms, but they have very few models and the spec's are nothing to write home about. I mean, this company had cinematic zoom lenses with 10x and 12x zoom ranges back in the late 1950s.

So, that would basically leave the odd-ball Russian glass, as well as the Fujinon and Canon cine lenses from Japan, which are basically the best values for the money in 35mm cine optics today. But altogether, with this avalanche of S35 CMOS sensor cameras coming out and becoming available, the major issue is the specs, prices, and availability of the matching optics from C. Zeiss, Cooke, Angenieux, Fujinon, and Canon. Compared to these ueber-priced cine-style lenses, the class-leading 35mm photo primes and zooms (Sigma, Tokina, Tamron, Rokinon, etc) begin to make a whole lot more sense, frankly.

September 15, 2011

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Stunko

i am from Recife in Brazil south america and i would love to have this camera ...

February 4, 2012

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In my experience, folks who refer to others right off as “Internet Trolls” are such bothersome creatures themselves.

April 6, 2014

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