April 22, 2014

6K Resolution for Under $10K: Kinefinity KineMAX 6K Camera Gets Official Pricing

Kinefinity_KINEMAX_6K1Kinefinity, the Chinese company that has been making scientific cameras for years, is now making some waves in the cinema camera market. Their first two models received a bit of attention for the features offered in such affordable packages, but now we are getting the next generation of those models, the KineMINI and KineMAX, which give 4K and 6K resolutions, respectively. We talked with Kinefinity at NAB, and while we already knew the 4K camera was going to come in around $3-$6,000 depending on the package, we now have some official pricing for the 6K camera (which is also capable of 14 stops of dynamic range, and an incredible 16 stops in a special 3K mode), and it's being offered for a limited time under $10,000.

Here is the new pricing information, which applies to the first 100 orders. The numbers crossed out are what the camera is going to cost after the first 100 orders (thanks to Michael for sending this over):

Kinefinity_KINEMAX_6K1

And here are the specs:

The company goes on to explain a few of the modes in their FAQ. One of the biggest questions I had when originally hearing about the camera was about the 3K pixel-binned mode. Apparently this just samples pixels down from the entire 6K resolution, and they are able to get more dynamic range -- up to an amazing 16 stops. This mode is meant for finishing at 2K, and they've also apparently got processing to minimize aliasing, which is something you get with some DSLRs that pixel-bin their sensors down to HD resolutions for video.

We don't know what rolling shutter looks like yet, but their Sport mode at 4K and 2K resolutions samples the sensor faster to reduce rolling shutter to essentially nothing. This is sort of the best of both worlds, as many global shutter sensors decrease performance, so you can use the sport mode when you really need it. They've also got a special high-speed mode which does similar sampling at 4K and lower resolutions to give you faster frame rates, up to 100fps at 4K:

KineMAX is capable of slow motion capture (overcrank), especially KineMAX featuring HiSpeed mode which enable 4K/2K slow-mo up to 100fps at S35mm frame.

It also supports crop mode to higher fps.

  1. M4/3 (Crop mode), 4K records up to 50fps;
  2. S16mm (Crop Mode), 3K up to 60fps;
  3. Smaller area, 2K up to 100fps.

The interesting thing about this camera are all of the different ways of recording internally. Not only does it have uncompressed (in some resolutions) and compressed CinemaDNG, but you also get Cineform RAW, which is very similar to the way RED compresses their RAW files. This means that you can have much more manageable files in post.

You can see footage from their 4K KineMINI camera here, but it doesn't look like anything from the 6K camera has been posted yet. The camera is apparently going to be shipping sometime in the next few months, so it shouldn't take long before we see something. If you'd like to pre-order, you can find it either straight from Kinefinity in China, or from one of the European distributors, who can also handle support if you're in Europe. The 4K camera, which is available for less than half the price, should be shipping very soon, and is available to order from the same places.

Links:

Your Comment

72 Comments

Kinefinity KineMAX 6K Camera VS. 6K RED DRAGON CARBON
$10.000 50.000$

April 22, 2014 at 7:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mher Hakobyan

Until we see production samples of these cameras, it's hard to consider them. BUT if the color science is great, is this going to fan Red's flame? Can Red really sell the Scarlet for $10K with these Kinefinity cameras looming?

April 22, 2014 at 7:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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If this camera is a 3rd of Red dragon, i still see no reason for a dragon when this camera is possibly capapble of the same picture or 80 percent , becasue we all know raw and post work can account for the other percentage and final look.

Now the f55 on the other hand thats a different story but top budget cinema cameras now and in near future under 10k

1. Black magic cinema 2.5k ( best bang for buck) great dynamic range and finish for ultimate 1080p
2. AJA cion looks promising frame rates, raw, 4k etc , nice build
3. black magic pocket/magic lantern lowlight, portability both produce similar raw pics dispite 14vs12bit
4. kinfinity 6k/4k if it comes out will be a nice camera , frame rates, dyanimic range
5. gh4k would put it higher but external recorders technically will not come out until later 4 quter of year and 8 bit is capable but not practical for professional cinema

April 22, 2014 at 8:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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JAYE

http://community.sony.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/3385i285E55550327...

You do not necessary need 6K... Plain old 4K works fine : )

April 22, 2014 at 8:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Juhan-i

+1

I agree technically 2k is fine

April 23, 2014 at 1:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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jaye

-1
4k looks better.

April 23, 2014 at 1:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

@ VinceGortho
No, no. *Good* 4K looks better. 4K from a GoPro or a smartphone camera isn't going to out-do 1080p from the Arri Amira (or even a Canon C100). Also, optimization for different use-cases is important; 1080p raw from the BPCC may be more useful to some than 4:2:0 UHD from the Sony AX100 camcorder.

April 24, 2014 at 12:30AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Mr Blah

the F55?!
But how do you say this?
I had a lot of problems with the F55, especially with lights on blue tones ... and in certain lighting conditions is not true, something has improved with the latest firmware but nothing big.
As stupid as comparison are much better hdc2500 colors.
If you can do the same image with a kineraw. and a DRagon please make a post about how you do not think it's possible but I'd like to see, thank you.

April 23, 2014 at 5:29AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ZDF TV

I think you use the camera on a full time job and see them in use for hours every day. So you are finding things that others who only use them less than you don't see. You are more intimate with the cameras. I appreciate your comments because of that. I always look for your ID and read your comments.

Though I think that camera technology has advanced so much that even now the lower priced cameras do a wonderful job for most people. I am happy for the GH4K and Sony A7s because it looks like I can afford to own them and recommend those I am advising to buy them. I can feel good that they are not extending themselves out on a limb to pay for them. Though I am certain the Red is a better camera.

April 23, 2014 at 10:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

Can you post your issue? Intrigued!
Just finished and delivered two F55 jobs - one commercial with a $1M+ budget, and one multi-cam live job with 10 F55s. We had zero issues.
I'd put that camera up against anything out there (yes, even an ALEXA).

April 23, 2014 at 11:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon

You have obvious bias against Sony. Your claim about some kind of problem with Sony F55 sensor sounds simply false. Or even a clear lie.

How come all the people who have worked with F55 cameras have really nothing but good things to say about them ? Yes, you may not like the "out-of-box-look", but to state that F55 somehow has inferior sensor... It is simply not true.

Well, also your credibility goes totally out of the windows with claim in post below where you state that Red Dragon has the best sensor in the business.

April 23, 2014 at 11:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Juhan-i

It's funny that you're so quick to point out a bias in others about one brand when you rant against another brand continually.

April 26, 2014 at 3:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Daniel Mimura

Because this camera will take another 3 years of firmware and workflow development and harware improving to get to the same quality and reliability like RED or other established cameras you cant expect they are now at same quality level out of the production line like others. So hurry guinea pigs go get them and help them get there :)
Making reliable camera is not a piece of cake and Red know it very very well.
Anyway I higly respect anybody who is so dare and even only try to make a camera! Its not an easy task.

April 22, 2014 at 9:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Kuk

3 years? You think Red will have 8K by then?

April 22, 2014 at 10:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

They won't be any worse off than BM. The Red's color, at higher ISOs, thins out and de-saturates. So, it's not as if Red controls the market. If anyone controls the market it's Arri.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTCpuwZzPPE

Kinefinity isn't arriving late to the party.

April 23, 2014 at 3:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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justasimpledp

I smile when I see these comparisons ...
well give it a try with Dragon then you come to write what is the result.
Now Red has the best sensor of all time, Dragon is excellent throughout, especially in overweight and color fidelity.

April 23, 2014 at 5:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ZDF TV

Make no mistake, I'm not dismissing Red. I'm simply dismissing the notion that any particular company has a firm grasp on the market. I'm just stating that Kinefinity has a shot at making a serious dent. But, first, I would like to see some footage (tests) conducted. On paper, it looks great. But, I want to see it in action.

April 23, 2014 at 7:08AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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justasimpledp

Download some previously released Kineraw footage/stills from their website and have a play. It's actually really lovely to grade :)

April 22, 2014 at 10:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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One reason the Epic Dragon is much more expensive is because of the higher frame rates. The Epic can do 100 fps at 6k and even higher when cropping the sensor, which means it can manage more than 3 times the data throughput compared to the Kinemax.

You could argue that for a feature film you only need 24 fps so you can do with a cheaper camera like the Scarlet, but in my experience is that people go for the more expensive camera because they think it is better, even if they don't use the higher frame rates.

April 22, 2014 at 11:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Sander

Can't wait to see some footage. These specs are pretty exciting.

April 22, 2014 at 7:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Its hard to take this serious when they are presenting 3d graphic mods , atleast have a dummy body but i do hope these come to fruition becasue the specs and previous models were actually nice

hope this works out good things coming in future cameras , i think between these cameras and the cion were both the top cameras at NAB.

Black magic seriously needs some work from what i hear about their 4k picture problems and bugs that they them selves are not sure how to combat even though they intend to produce future model cameras

Still waiting on compressed raw for the 2.5k black magic cinema

April 22, 2014 at 7:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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JAYE

fantastic but I have the s35 and canon lens adapters work really bad. You have to move the optic as Indiana Jones to align the teeth with those of the lens.

April 22, 2014 at 7:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gianluca

so since it's Nikon mount. This camera can be speed boosted to full frame?

April 22, 2014 at 8:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

There's no speedbooster for Nikon mount.

April 22, 2014 at 10:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ts

poop.

April 22, 2014 at 10:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

they are considering sony e-mount option as well.

April 27, 2014 at 8:22AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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bback

6K for $16K. No way to know if it looks better than the Red Dragon. But who really would have thought we'd see such a low price for 6K this soon? RD 6K has a fascinating look. This new camera will probably be fascinating to look at too. Kinefinity has made themselves vital and cutting edge. I like em for it!

How long till we see 8K at a lower than expected price?

This sprint pace that video tech is moving at is a kick to watch!

April 22, 2014 at 8:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Gene

The image should be decent, saw their previous version. All u pay is for the camera body and lil to their staffs, unlike u pay more to their staffs than the camera, taking RED for an example.

April 22, 2014 at 10:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Tim

If you take a look at the footage on their site from the previous cameras then I'm not impressed. They have these colour casts on over or nearly over-exposed areas on all clips and skin tones look funky with weird saturation on some clips. I remember seeing a movie shot with RED ONE that had similar problems. I don't know if this is because the images were improperly exposed to begin with and the colour correction to save detail on them made them look like this or if this is how it just looks when shot. Anyways, this is tempting camera but unless it can produce better images than shown on their website from previous cameras, then I wouldn't go with it

April 22, 2014 at 11:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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ts

Don't know what you mean but the older 2k kineraw footage is simply amazing

April 23, 2014 at 1:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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jaye

This will eliminate my need for a stills camera.

April 22, 2014 at 10:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

Is it me or is this resolution arms race getting out of hand? Seriously, who outside of a $150+ feature would use this resolution? Do you know what post costs for 4k, especially on cgi heavy films?...OMG! Most do SFX in 2k then render to 4k for the print. Then what about delivery? Is 4k projection really filling the seats or is it something else?

I can understand how this might be tempting for photogs, but wow...can you imagine the storage needs for a 3 day lifestyle shoot? Give me a 5Dmk3 and a handful of CF cards and I'll bag just as many shots as this ever could. Throw in certain stills requirements like specific shutter speeds and sometimes strobes...this puppy isn't gonna get used unless you're in a very controlled setting or shooting in perfect ambient light.

Sorry to be a buzz kill guys but when I saw this post I felt my eyes trying to roll. Even if this camera costs $3,000 I wouldn't even contemplate using it until the storage, processing, distribution and display technology could properly support it....2020?

April 23, 2014 at 12:11AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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buddy lets say you have 1TB of storage it wil give you 7hrs of 4K cineformraw-12bit and its not even 2020 yet....better than prores 422 10bit and even more smaller than that prores and if you feel you really need/love to work with prores u can alwas transcode to even prores 444 12bit...but its what really feels your cup...one man's food might be another man's poison...am sure the tool you have works great and if its doing its intended purpose then you should wait tel other solid options come to the market...me i love the 14stops i don't think if i bought it i would ever shoot 6K UHD with it...

April 23, 2014 at 2:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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mathenge

@SCOTT Yes. You don't have to use the 6k mode. Sheesh. Use the 3k mode and gain some dynamic range and storage space.

April 23, 2014 at 2:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

There are several reasons to shoot at a higher res - reframing and downsampling are just two of them. 6K is basically double of 4K, which is basically how F65 works ... and that thing costs about $80,000.
.
In any case, Kinefinity has to deliver a working set and they have not shown one yet. Plus, they have no US distributor yet either. (and their Euro distributor is a small fry in Berlin) It's one thing to buy some LED lights for $500 on eBay; it's entirely another to spend $15,000 on a camera. For that kind of money, one could buy a used F5.

April 23, 2014 at 3:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

This is a 4k solid camera with a 6K UHD option(just to get it str8)...they say 6K for those VFX shots but the SPORT MODE goes upto to 4K...rolling shutter is a nightmare for VFX guys...try to perfectly track a shot with rolling shutter everything just doesn't fall into place...On RED DRAGON side it a real ful 6K camera but also does it a 100fps and not that alone does everything at 16 stops of dynamic range(no pixel binning) the new fans work silently even when you are recording so over heat is almost a none issue,go to KINEMAX the fan goes off the moment you press record...they call it a 'smart fan'(we really do have a different definition of the word smart)...don't complain about overheating the moment you buy....without saying much its a real solid 4K camera with the company selling point being a 6K camera,i might pick it when it actually comes out bt i also hope nobody compares it more with RED they are different beasts when it the game...dont pick max and try to get a red look,am just saying

April 23, 2014 at 2:30AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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mathenge

Looks kinda saxay, wonder what the folks bitching and moaning about red's form factor would say to this.

April 23, 2014 at 4:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Natt

kinefinity, how about putting the same senzor , implement pixel binning (like canon C100/300) so we can shoot at maximum 3k resolution with higher DR and sell it for less? and maybe save some processing power, or something to reduce weight?

why there´s no cheap camera that is focused more on DR than resolution?
put this senzor in kinemini, make it do 3k @ 50fps and with 16stops (ok maybe 14 useable) we are sold

April 23, 2014 at 4:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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matt

A7s, whenever it comes out, is geared toward the DR and low light capabilities. People might complain about the "frankenrig" but, combine it with a monitor/recorder, and it is still a fairly lightweight solution for 4K at ~ $5,000. A7s will have some rolling shutter effect though. Getting high DR, high FPS, hi ISO in a single body is what costs you the beaucoup bucks. Break it down into three different cameras - A7s, FS700, BMPC4K - though and it still costs less than the new Epic Dragon. Or, whenever Atomos or Convergent Design receives a permission from Sony to record 4K XAVC or ProRes from FS700, one might have all of the above for ~ $13K.

April 23, 2014 at 8:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

yes , but I would prefer it in a normal sized body, (GH4 or kineraw mini) , but I am really considering A7s, let´s see first what can s-log do on this baby

April 23, 2014 at 11:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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matt

A7s is still 8bit color max. Rolling shutter test looked horrendous.

April 23, 2014 at 12:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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VinceGortho

Red is a dying breed. The only thing that will save their sinking ship is their light field sensor technology ie: lytro they are developing. Very soon.. we will be pulling focus in post.

April 23, 2014 at 8:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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BobHadABabyItsABoy!

Lytro released their new camera yesterday ... I am not sure what the real resolution is .. or even what its practical resolution is ... I think they're claiming a 40 MP equivalent ... several new smartphones will soon have a similar technology from a different vendor ... hypothetically speaking, if a camera has a high enough frame rate, it can achieve multiple focus point the same way it achieves multiple exposure ... the rest would have to be pulled out in post on a frame by frame basis ...

April 23, 2014 at 9:53AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Not only pulling focus in post - light field tech erases the need for optically perfect lenses.
So IF RED manage to get to market first with it, its the savings on lenses that will be revolutionary.
I do think we're at least 2 years away from seeing it operationally however.

April 23, 2014 at 11:13AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon

One more thing: you are absolutely right the without it RED are dead.

April 23, 2014 at 11:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon

Eventually filming a scene could consist of placing a number of static cameras around the scene to capture all the angles, and then choosing framing, focus, and camera movement in post. Kind of like the system James Cameron developed for "Avatar", but without the need for CGI in post-production. The whole scene could be captured in a continous take.

April 23, 2014 at 12:01PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Daniel

Paul Debevec did this at USC for the 3-D rendering but IMO, this is something you do once to sample your actor and then digitize the obtained info to render everything else in Mo-Cap. Of course, considering the power of new computers/video cards, one won't need to spend $180M on something like "Polar Express" anymore. But that's a whole new bowl of wax - films without real actors.

April 23, 2014 at 12:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

By that logic so are Arri, Sony, Panasonic? Sorry to break it to you, they're not going anywhere.

April 23, 2014 at 8:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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carlos

Incredible, 16 stops of DR? I would love to see what 16 stop footage looks like.

April 23, 2014 at 10:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Ricky

Do you have HDR on your phone? That's what it looks like.
/being glib, but also serious.

April 23, 2014 at 11:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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marklondon

Was checking out some new computing power; there is still not a single proper monitor available.. I mean one with: large color space, ultra hd (4K) AND TRUE 10-BIT output.

It does not matter how much DR you have, if you can not output. This is year 2014 and we are still stuck with monitors / TVs that are 8-bit for each RGB component. Best tonemap algorithm in the world is not gonna save us... 8-bit is 8-bit, nothing more.

(and yes I do understand the difference with contrast ratio / emitted light and amount of gradient data)

April 23, 2014 at 11:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Juhan-i

Monitors that view less DR are less important than sensors that capture it in a couple different ways...one, all the footage you've shot in the past...you're just going to enjoy it better in the future. Even though The Twilight Zone teevee show was from the late-50's, early sixties and designed for NTSC standard def output, even though its black and white, 4:3, monaural sound...it looks amazing on bluray! That's because the capture medium exceeds the broadcast medium...so upgrading as technology improves keeps it looking good.

The other bigger reason is that the sensor needs to capture more for the monitor to see it. If you have don't have wide dynamic range on the sensor, those skies are gonna be white...but if you do have a big dynamic range, those skies won't be blown out in the capture, and will register just fine on the lower dynamic range monitor. True, a monitor with more dynamic range will help, especially with stuff in the shadows or very subtle stuff, but being able to catch better is far more important than being able to view better. This same goes for color space. All professional modern movie cameras exceed Rec709, but many DP's on set (I'm talking big budget A-list movies) are viewing Rec709 b/c it's easier/better to judge color and contrast than viewing RAW or Log.

April 26, 2014 at 4:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Daniel Mimura

Yeah, but how do you buy one if you're in America?

April 23, 2014 at 12:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Sam

April 23, 2014 at 3:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Which is in Germany ... closer than Beijing but much further than B&H.

April 23, 2014 at 7:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Red competitor, wow nice specs. Still too heavy for me hahahah. I know that weight shouldn't be a deal breaker but it sure is convenient and I think that is what it will eventually be. Lighter smaller cameras at an affordable price. Sort of like the GoPro!Which they seem to be coming from the bottom up, starting with size with price and then quality and functionality comes later. Great head start for them.

April 23, 2014 at 2:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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No problem at all with weight being a deal breaker. The F65 is my dream camera in terms of image but the size and weight are too unwieldy for the way I like to shoot. I think this cam could be good in terms of image but at the same time their last camera had a lot of quirks to it. A lot of basic camera features were seemingly left out altogether, and I'm at the point where I don't trust spec sheets nearly as much as I do my eyes. A lot of people are saying this is a RED killer without having seen a single second of footage or without having shot with either camera (which is beyond me how someone could make those kind of predictions). There's a lot to like here on paper, it just bums me out that this year the industry seems to be shifting away from lighter cameras.

April 23, 2014 at 3:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Coty

AJA Cion seems to be rather lightweight and made to be shoulder-mounted ... of course, once you screw in your PL lenses, you are probably doubling the weight (but, before Cion comes out, a third party EF mount should be available) .
.
BTW, I was watching an interview with Garrett Brown, among other folks, and he said that the last thing he wants to do is to go back to the 100 lb Marshall cams. For him, the lighter something is, the better, and the trend is definitely that way.

April 23, 2014 at 3:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

Wait...what? A 2kg camera is too heavy?

April 26, 2014 at 4:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Daniel Mimura

Watch out Red!!!!

April 23, 2014 at 2:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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If this camera is to be successful they will have to offer the kind of support other major camera manufacturers offer. I see on their website they have a European office, but not any stateside. Not sure about sending a camera with issues all the way to China if it needs evaluation or repair. West and East coast sales and tech. support offices would go a long way in making this a more viable option for many.

April 23, 2014 at 3:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Craig

My friend is one of the owners of Kinefinity. That's exactly what I'm keeping telling him. They need a real dealer in states.

April 24, 2014 at 2:31AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Jason

It's called a "manufacturing rep" in the US. These representative are likely to be an existing company with plenty of connection on the retail and wholesale levels. And, even if they take a cut of $1,000 per unit sold, it is usually worth it for the new products because shipping $10,000-$15,000 cameras from Europe and China without any US base just won't work for an average American buyer.
.
And do not forget to treat your customer base well either.

April 24, 2014 at 7:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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DLD

please tell your friend that they really should release the kinemount to sony e-mount adapter.

April 27, 2014 at 8:30AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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bback

For what its worth, all of the cameras I have gotten are still working, even the prototype Super8 model KineRAW-S8p (tm) was still working the last time I had it on. I've bounced them around in a rolling case, so they have held up in use so far.

June 10, 2014 at 3:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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This camera is what impressed out of all of the NAB 2014 coverage.

April 23, 2014 at 5:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Marc B

Kinefinity could make a serious impact in the marketplace. They need to get these cameras in the hands of filmmakers ASAP to show what they can really do. Also get the US/European distribution and support sorted out. Hopefully they are dealing with these issues right now. I really can't wait to see what these cameras can do.

April 24, 2014 at 6:53AM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Trza

I wonder if they'll keep these prices with the price of the Scarlet Dragon being 14.5k

April 24, 2014 at 3:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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If it's close to Sony 65 color science I would get it. I don't like skin tones in Red in general.

April 24, 2014 at 7:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Pete Polyakov

Specs don't mean a thing without seeing how the camera WORKS and what the footage LOOKS like. Let's see some footage and "real-world" users working with it. Then we'll talk money. Any thing can look good on paper(monitor screen)

April 25, 2014 at 3:32PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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Drew

Just a few comments about the comments above:

1) In a True RAW recording camera you are not dependent on the camera maker or anyone else for "color science" you have the actual raw data you can do anything you want with. Software such as mine bypasses the need for the Adobe SDK or issues with variuos programs like Resolve (tm) by allowing anyone to set the matrix and transfer curves and chroma noise filters manually. Although there can be problems with anyone's DNG files being processed in random uncalibrated workflows, there are some calibrated workflows, which in the case of the Kinefinity (tm) cameras use the 3D-LUTs made for color matching with each shots results to the camera's monitor, if people use other workflows then they need to keep in mind that their workflow may know nothing about the in camera color corrections, so they will need to make up for that, but that is true for all DNG recording cameras more or less.

2) Kinefinity (tm) is planning on improving their color processing in the 4K and 6K models, and eventually if that gets implemented should expand the number of looks you can get to be almost infinite and possably emulate standard transfer curves so that looks used with other cameras can be applied to their footage with good matching, the details of this prospective implementation will follow when the firmware is updated.

3) At the present time you can apply any looks you want to the footage since its recorded RAW, if you use the transcode Cineform (tm) or Prores (tm) through KineSTATION (tm) software the in camera monitoring matching 3D-LUT should be able to be applied to that to get matching results on ingest of that footage.

4) The main issues I have seen with test footage being shown is that people were grading from the Cineform or DNG without using the 3D-LUT the camera produces for monitoring matching, and therefore were not using any color science that relates to the camera at all, perhaps because they did not understand the intended workflow, at any rate what you see is someone's color science just not Kinefinity's (tm) in those cases, so critisizing the camera based on such results should be tempered with the knowledge that with a RAW recording camera when the sensor data is processed through random methods you get random results, which depend on the skill and knowledge of the person doing the conversion from RAW to RGB.

5) Hopefully KineSTATION (tm) and firmware will be imporved to give a prescribed RGB result from the RAW data for people that don't know what to do with RAW data or don't have the tools or time to process it to get the results they want. But having prescribed RGB results from a True RAW camera still gives you the option of going back to the True RAW if you want to need to, if you use a RGB only format camera such as Prores (tm) or H.264 you cannot "undo" all of the RAW to RGB processing burned in.

6) I've seen some test shots made with the 6K sensor, so it seems to exist.

7) When you oversample 1.5x 6K for 4K results you are doing what ARRI ALEXA (tm) does shooting 2880x1620 for 1920x1080 end use, such oversample reduces the impact of the OLPF and Bayer pattern artifacts and can give results better and with fewer de-Bayer artifacts than using a 4K Bayer sensor for 4K end use. The fewer digital artifacts in the images the closer they may get to a 4K 35mm film scan which is done with 100% fill factor on the R,G,B scans, Bayer filters are 25% R, 50% G, and 25% B when used pixel to pixel without oversample.

June 9, 2014 at 7:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:56AM

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I have made soem monitoring tables for the Kine- cameras to emulate the gray scale curves of ARRI Log-C, Sony S-Log(1), S-Log2, S-Log3, and Canon CLOG as well as revised Kodak Cineon Film Log, those tables are look groups named, KineLOGC, KineLOGS1, KineLOGS2, KineLOGS3, KineLOGN and KineLOGF, you can see the test video U1 at,

http://vimeo.com/105938940

and

http://youtu.be/5ycLVMH0wI4

If you want the LK5 and cube files I have them in some zip files and can email them to you for testing, my email is: tempnulbox (at) yahoo (dot) com the cube files not starting with Kine are from the internet you need to google to get those.

September 26, 2014 at 7:50PM

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Dan Hudgins
Free DI software developer
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