Gender balance in the film industry has been famously slow going, with the numbers of department heads behind the camera in film reminiscent of other industries in the 1980s (or even the 1950s). The Center for Women in Film & Television reports that only 13% of directors and 9% of cinematographers are women. In order to foster change in the industry, the New York Mayor's Office of Media & Entertainment (MOME) worked with Brooklyn College's Feirstein Graduate School of Cinema to produce two pilot projects written, directed, shot and edited by women that will receive their premiere tonight, Fri. Jan. 19 at 10 pm EST on NYC Media. We sat down to talk to the crew about the process.
[Full disclosure: The interviewer, Charles Haine, supervised the post production on the pilots.]
No Film School: How did you first hear about the program?
Lilly Kleinman (Editor, Maturity): The Mayor's Office came to school and did a panel with us where they told us about the writing competition and their intention to have it be student-led productions, with the script process open to all New York residents.
Kaitlyn Cortes (Editor, Half Life): I submitted a script. I figured, it was one of things that if I didn't, then I'd be sad. I wanted to at least try. It didn't get selected, and I love post-production, which is what I'm studying here at Feirstein, so that worked out okay. Being a part of that process for Greenlight Her as an editor was just as exciting and that's why I also had no problem with signing on to cut Half Life.
Antonia Colodro looks at the monitor with director Amanda ReyesCredit: Half Life
NFS: When were the final selections made?
Rose Haag (director, Maturity): Well, the scripts were chosen first, in March, then the crew in April, and the shoots were in June.
NFS: So you had almost no prep time.
Amanda Reyes (director, Half Life): It was intense. It was like an intense month of pre-production. Once the teams were chosen, we hit the ground running. So, yeah. It definitely felt like we were on a time crunch in the beginning.
Haag: Especially because Amanda and I, we both made our second-year shorts during the last round of selection.
Reyes: Oh my god, that's right.
Haag: We were actually shooting our second-year shorts, and the day after those wrapped we started to prep the pilots.
DP Alex Brown observes the Steadicam op on MATURITYCredit: Maturity
NFS: Did you then form teams and pitch with your teams for each project? How did that work?
Reyes: We expressed interest in working on the projects. Then they sent us the two scripts and the NDA, and we could choose one of the scripts to pitch for.
Haag: Amanda, you had assembled your whole team already right?
Reyes: I already knew that I wanted to work with Antonia (Colodro), because she is my DP for everything out here and I just love working with her. I knew we wanted to submit a team, but we were having trouble finding an editor and producer. Initially another student was part of our team as a producer. We got our pitch roped together and went in as a team. But then the executive producers chose Mary McCuran to be our producer in the end. They mixed and matched the teams a little.
City Street work on HALF LIFECredit: Half Life
NFS: So even though this was sort of a student production, it had a little bit more of that professional atmosphere of "we're gonna take the best of the groups." Usually on a student film, you get to pick whomever you want work with, whereas professionally, there will often be a list of approved people and you have to pick from one of them. So, this was a little bit of a hybrid between the two.
Cortes: I was part of a team. I was with another director, DP, and Mary and we went into the interview together. But they had been saying was that post was going to be decided last. Like I didn't have to be part of a team pitch but I could. So we just thought like oh, since we already have the editor decided for our team, we're just gonna bring you anyway. I went to interview process, I said a few things but it was mostly about the pre-production that they wanted to hear about. So, for post, as the editor, I was chosen last out of all four of the core because we're later in the process anyway. So, it made sense. But yeah, we got all mixed up once they chose things. Luckily, I ended up getting teamed up with Amanda, Antonia and Mary.
Haag: Our team actually went in as a group, and we stayed intact. It's kind of like Amanda and Antonia where Alex [Brown, the DP of Maturity] and I teamed up. We had worked a little bit before on a documentary project and I knew I really wanted to work with her. She took the lead on putting the pitch together. Then we found Brian as our producer. We didn't have an editor, but they kept our threesome together. After that, we spoke to a large number of editors in the third year and second year tracks. And we fell in love with Lilly.
Kleinman: I kind of missed the whole pitching process because in the beginning of the year when Feirstein announced that this project was happening, they said that it was going to be geared towards the inaugural class. So the first years were under the impression that we weren't supposed to pitch. I was approached by Brian the producer on Maturity, who was a TA in my MOS class first year. He remembered my editing from MOS, then he asked me to interview. And I thought the project was awesome.
Credit: Half Life
NFS: This project was obviously focused on supporting female writers and then by extension, female filmmakers. How did that impact your crew choices? Did it create a different environment on set? Had you worked on majority female productions before?
Reyes: No. [The group laughs.] This is something that was new to me. Within school, I've always been a part of programs that basically want to inspire diversity and so, I've always worked with diverse crews as a part of school. But anything outside of school, no. It was predominantly male, predominantly white. This was something that, even though were looking for crews within the school, it was an outside of school funded thing. It was different than any film set I had been on outside of school because I was on a set where I was the director, and the editor, the producer, the cinematographer, my AD, my second AD, and my script supervisor were all female. I couldn't help but notice it. But it didn't feel any different work-wise. We were so efficient and we had prepped so much that I think we were working like any efficient professional film crew. But I did have to take notice. Like, "Oh my god, there's so many females on the set." It's pretty fucking awesome, but I think we did the industry standard job.
Haag: I think it was most different in terms of crew choices. I feel like we did have a predominantly female crew, but it happened really organically. It wasn't like, "Yeah, well we're gonna choose this person cause she's a woman." I think that more so once the key roles were female, it was more like the people that we automatically knew and thought of, also tended to be female. And the people who were interested in the story since there were female leads also tended to be women. Just the people who were the right fit for the project and I kind of agree with Amanda, that I don't know that the result, or the environment on set was that different. But what I do think was different is, on my very early jobs, I was sometimes the only woman in sight. I think that that's when things tended to feel really off, where there is more of a tendency to feel like you're being treated more like a woman than a person.
Laughing Rose Haag on the set with Alex Brown on MATURITYCredit: Maturity
I think the Maturity crew wasn't as all-female as maybe Half Life. Like, we did have men on set and there was male first AD and a male script supervisor. But most of the other key roles were women and I really enjoyed that mix. I feel like it was majority female, but not all female. But in other cases, where there's a tendency for women to sometimes take up a little bit less space than the men, there was enough of a female majority that it just felt like everyone was a person.
NFS: So you were hired as students, but then the product is showing on television, and it's expected to be of professional quality. Were there any hiccups navigating the transition and the balance between the two worlds, student production and professional expectations?
Reyes: Well, for me it was definitely a lot of pressure. I had never worked for a writer and a board of executive producers. I had always just made my own films and very much the director is like an auteur, basically often producing their own stuff. Especially, at our level being student filmmakers. That was a whole element that I had to get used to was having to, I guess just collaborate more and be more open to different perspectives. It was different in that sense.
Haag: I'll second that. It's that same thing of sometimes being taught to take up less space as a woman, I think was actually in this case, I think as students we tend to take up a little bit less space in the room as well. The challenge was really navigating that and figuring out how to assert ourselves in ways that made sense. Which I also think was a huge plus for this project, because I think that's true for any beginning and first-time filmmaker, the fact that, I think that being able to take up space in the room, the only way that you can learn how to do that and know when to assert yourself is just from experience. The fact that we got to practice that as students is kind of amazing.
Editor Kaitlyn Cortes (left) and Lilly Kleinman review an edit together.Credit: Greenlight Her
Kleinman: Yeah, I also think that we used each other a lot as support. I know like before we had test screenings, Kaitlyn and I, even though we were working on opposite shows, we would always meet and watch each other's cuts and give each other feedback and talk about what executive producers' notes were and see how we could help each other. Having Rose in the room with me during the edit and before the test screening, we always made sure to be on the same page before we spoke with the executive producers. Which I think was really helpful in the end because we were a team. We also received a lot of support from Charles, from the post supervisor. When we didn't know what to do, we had a mentor to say, "this is what you should do."
Haag: Yeah, all of the faculty that was a part of the whole process, were just so amazingly helpful. It was so nice to have industry professionals there mentoring us throughout it all. Jonathan Wacks, Debbie Reinisch, Sarah Cawley, we got the benefit of their support through the whole thing.
"I was constantly trying to push myself to try to do things that I hadn't done before."
Cortes: I second everything both of you just said. We were working in Resolve 14, which was still in beta over the summer and there were a few glitches that are expected to happen, when a program is still getting worked through. It was nice to be able to just walk over to the next edit room and say, "Lilly, do you have this issue?" and be able to bounce off each other and to teach each other the program, things that we learned on our own or had to look up. Things like that were super helpful throughout the entire process. In terms of the transition to professional from student environment, that team feeling in post might not always be there professionally, that student camaraderie. I definitely feel like for me at least, I was constantly trying to push myself to try to do things that maybe I hadn't done before. To not only do the best I could, but to grow to be able to do even more than the best I could deliver.
Sarah Stiles and Joe Curnette in HALF LIFECredit: Half Life
So, I would push myself to ask the questions. To look up tutorials, you know things like that and make sure I can do the things that I need to do to find the best version of the footage. Just pushing myself to be a better editor throughout the entire summer. Because there were times when it felt like I was being seen as only a student and not a professional. I wanted to make sure that I could prove, like no, I am a student but I'm capable of professional quality work. Here's my work, here's what you asked of me. And the student thing is just me advancing what I love to do in this field.
NFS: Every project forces us to grow in some way. In what ways did this sort of transitionary project help you grow?
Haag: I really felt so acutely at the end of production that the director is just one piece of this puzzle. I think in popular culture, director interviews and auteur theory, there's this idea that the director is running the show. It was this amazing revelatory experience to come off set and feel like I was this piece of this bigger puzzle. I think that in television, that starts from the fact that the director really has a sort of smaller role. You're bringing to life [the vision of] the writers and showrunners. I think people have mixed feelings about that, but I felt like that was an amazing experience—to feel like part of this team, part of a collaboration rather than in charge. But it also made me think about even making short films that there is still a possibility to create that collaboration. To have it be this team effort and the director sort of is, I almost want to say a backseat, that you're guiding the process rather than hammering it into being.
Reyes: Yeah, totally. I have to agree with that completely. For me, I really loved working with the writer (Patty Carery-Perazzo). I also learned that it's okay to challenge. It's okay to question. It's actually encouraged, especially in pre-production. It's something that really terrified me because I felt like I had a board of executive producers and a writer to please. I had to make sure their vision came across, but I also had the challenge in staying true to my own narrative. I had issues with some of the characters and how they were portrayed. When voicing that concern, I was expecting to be shut down, but it was the exact opposite. The writer was very open and that collaboration led to better writing, better directing and a better story, more honest characters being portrayed. It was just like, "Oh, I shouldn't be afraid to voice my opinion about something or voice my concern about something when I'm collaborating." That's what it's all about.
Haag: It is such a success of it being to promote women in film. Because I think that we're so taught to please rather than assert ourselves. I should just speak for myself, but I do feel like that's part of how I have been cultured as a woman, is to please and figuring out how to challenge that.
NFS: The Harvey Weinstein story and the "Me Too" movement occurred during the post-production process for these projects, so this program from the city and Feirstein wasn't a direct response to that phenomenon. But this is definitely a program designed to create a more equitable film industry, which is a different issue but is related.
Cortes: For me at least, I just felt more encouraged after being part of a production where a lot of it was female-heavy. For instance, Charles, you were the post supervisor. You're a male. Travis (Devin, sound designer) and Mike Cassedy (score composer) are male. There are males in this pool together [with us] and no one once treated me any less or any different because I was a student or a female. That never happened for me. Having the support from everyone involved, it just really encouraged me that [even though] these bad instances happened doesn't mean that they always happen or they happen in every single environment or instance of a film being made or a TV show being made. Being in an environment that was so open and supportive and just fun at the end of the day, I had a lot of fun a lot of days. There were headaches as in any project but, I mean for the most part, I was supported. I had fun, I learned, I hopefully did good work. I made connections with people. These bad instances shouldn't completely take over and discourage anyone from going into the industry because it's not every single job you'll work on. There are lots of jobs out there where you won't get harassed, where professional people treat each other professionally.
Kristen Parker surrounded by Judith Delgado, Sondra James, Sam Tsoutsouvas, Delphi Harrington,, Ira Hawkins, with Robert Hogan in the background.Credit: Maturity
NFS: The movement this fall isn't the end of all Hollywood, it's just the tearing out of a poisoned section of Hollywood. You felt encouraged because you're like, "That's not the world of media I work in."
Cortes: Correct. I was encouraged. I was also sad that it isn't always this supportive. I hope other people have the experience I had even just for a short summer because this makes me want to continue down this path.
Haag: I feel grateful to have been where we were when that happened because I feel like we got perspectives from women who had been in the industry for a long time. We sat in class and we talked about it. The conversation was kind of a mixed bag. But there were also women like Executive Producer Jaime Zelemeyer who said something about her experience in the industry. Not like a "Me Too" moment, but just her perspective on how people treat each other. I felt really like there was this kind of sisterhood and this connection that was special to be a part of, and I don't know that I would have been seeing that if we hadn't been in this environment where we had these real women veterans of the industry.
Kleinman: Professor Sarah Christman came in as well and gave us feedback, and just hearing from her was so helpful. Her perspective on a lot of the questions that we had, it's impossible not to be aware of the fact that this is a very female-driven crew. That perspective was in what we created. It was reflected in what we created and hearing Sarah Christman reinforce those ideas was also really helpful. I just think this is an experience that we might not even have again. To work with such a strongly, such a heavily female crew and it was just a safe space. Especially at that time, to work together and be in the industry and feel supported.
Check out the projects today, Fri. Jan. 19 and Sat. Jan. 20 at 10 pm EST on NYC Media on the channels listed in the graphic above. You can also stream the pilots right after they air and vote online before Jan. 27th at the nyc.gov/GreenlightHer. The pilot with the most votes will have the project turned into a four-part series.
For more information on the Feirstein Graduate School of Cinema, check out its site.
