December 9, 2013

Digital Bolex D16 Cameras Are Finally Shipping This Week

The Digital Bolex D16 camera was wildly successful when it launched on Kickstarter back in March 2012, blowing past its funding goal in just a matter of hours. It's been a long development process with 100s of improvements made to the camera, and now it's finally going to be in the hands of shooters within the next week. If you missed the Kickstarter, and you'd like to get your hands on one, they will officially be opening up pre-orders for the camera starting next week. Check below for more details.

The evolution of the D16:

Here is what Joe and Elle from Digital Bolex said over on the website:

We’re pleased to announce that the Digital Bolex D16 will begin shipping to backers starting this week. If you are a backer, we will contact you shortly to verify your shipping addresses and contact details, so please make sure that emails from digitalbolex.com will clear your spam filter.

For those of you who are not backers but are interested in purchasing a camera, we are also announcing our first official pre-sale for the next 500 cameras! This pre-sale will open on December 16th at 10am EST through our website with a retail price of $3,299 for a 256 GB camera, and $3599 for the 512 GB camera. Stay tuned for the official pre-sale link which we’ll be announcing here later in the week.

We've seen some really impressive images coming out of the camera (which uses a Super 16mm CCD sensor), and there have been even more image improvements since footage has been posted. Some minor things are still being worked out before the cameras go out the door, but we're pleased to say that No Film School is going to be reviewing a finished camera, and we'll hopefully be posting footage sometime next week.

There is also going to be a special discount code just for No Film School readers, so stay tuned for later in the week if you'd like to save a little money on a D16 pre-order.

For more information on how the pre-order is going to work, check out the post over on the Digital Bolex site.

Link: The D16 Ships This Week! -- Digital Bolex

Your Comment

94 Comments

I'm personally not in the market for such a camera but I've been really impressed by it and really excited for it's release. If I had the money, I would totally get it just personal everyday stuff.

December 9, 2013 at 5:04PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hubert

Congrats Joe and Elle!

December 9, 2013 at 5:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Tay Mack

I am happy to see this is finally going to happen. Naturally I am waiting. My pockets are not deep enough to buy without knowing it will do for me what I need.

December 9, 2013 at 5:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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The Rising

Hey, this is great news. I had, initially started to believe, that the Digital Bolex was like the loch ness monster. Some stupid legend, created on a hoax.

Congrats to you guys. I am very curious to see what the final image looks like.

December 9, 2013 at 5:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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zack

2 little 2 late

December 9, 2013 at 5:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Alex

Yay! Congratulations to the Digital Bolex team! Truly a great achievement. Hope you sell a lot of these! Can't wait to see work done by talanted and creative people.

December 9, 2013 at 6:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hugh

oOps.. Didn't mean to reply to the loser..

December 9, 2013 at 6:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hugh

Hahahaha!

December 9, 2013 at 8:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Jacob

Ha:D

December 10, 2013 at 6:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kraig

I've already bought into the BMCC, but I'm glad to see they're shipping. More choice is a great thing!

December 9, 2013 at 5:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Bout Time, Very interesting to put my hands on them when I get some money.

December 9, 2013 at 5:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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This could make a lovely documentary camera.

With the large storage and the XLR audio inputs, along with the CCD images we are seeing -- this could be the tool of choice for someone that wants something like the C100, but slightly more affordable.

December 9, 2013 at 5:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Sadly I doubt it. It only goes to 400 iso so indoors it won't be good without a lot of lights , and only shooting RAW it won't record interviews longer than 50 or so minutes on the on board SSD

December 10, 2013 at 1:59AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Marshall

Wrong.
Check the specs, the internal 500GB hard drive will give you much more than that.

December 10, 2013 at 3:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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pask74

This is the wrong attitude towards a raw camera, I'm afraid. Every sensor has a native sensitivity, iirc, in the case of the D16, ASA200. Everything else is fiddling with read out voltages or digitally processing the data.

This processing can also be done in post. Just like pull/push development with film, you can mis-expose, and then correct for an "assumed" ISO in post. And apparently, the D16 has quite a margin in this regard.

Incidently, it is also considered to provide an in-camera-Setting for ASA800 with a Firmware upgrade. but Initial experimentation has shown (iirc) that the Image is better when doing this conversion in post.

December 10, 2013 at 3:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

We will have 800 ISO and the 500GB version will give you 82 minutes at 2K 24fps.

December 10, 2013 at 4:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Nice, the specs on the PDF still say 400 so you might update it. 800 is much more useful

December 10, 2013 at 5:34AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Marshall

It will be 400 ISO at launch but we will add 800 ISO soon, and change the specs then too :)

December 10, 2013 at 5:56AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Great job, D-bolex! Can't wait to see some D16's in person.

December 9, 2013 at 7:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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alex

Really looking forward to this. The fact that the Digital Bolex people are so communicative with consumers through their website (regarding opinions and improvements) is a reason to choose this camera over the BM offerings. Even though the sensor and resolution are less than the next BM camera, DB will come out with a 4k camera, and it will probably be better.

December 9, 2013 at 7:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Depends on what "resolution" means to you. Gorgeous color, no rolling shutter, superior audio means more "resolution" at the end of the day in my book.
But, yes, it's not a 4k camera.

December 10, 2013 at 3:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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pask74

I suspect that 1080p (especially RAW & Pro Res), 2K and 4K will simultaneously be viable recording options for quite a while. It will be a matter of choosing the best camera/format for the job instead of a mature codec fading into obsolescence, especially now that deliverable product is not as tape or disc based as in the past.

December 10, 2013 at 10:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Marc B

will decide after seeing the foottage

December 9, 2013 at 7:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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wesley

I've been totally underwhelmed by the footage. I've watched all their camera tests and nothing looks that great to me. I think what they've done is awesome in terms of pure entrepreneurship, but the camera's images aren't compelling. Perhaps it's because they're always testing with some vintage or junk lens, or making a weird grade.

December 9, 2013 at 7:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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adam

Let's see what comes out of it within the next weeks but the last DNGs I've been able to play with were absolutely stunning.

December 10, 2013 at 3:51AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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pask74

It is just a sensor with a very sophisticated read out electronics. Almost no processing in-camera. I am pretty sure that it's all in the grading. Such a camera has not been built before (to my best knowledge, even the Ikonoskop uses a simpler electronics), so some learning phase will apparently be required. I hope that the experiences gained by the users will flow into the compagnion software "LightPost". I would really ask for a software that I can tell "ok, on set, we had a light temperature of 4800K, I exposed for ISO 640, and I want the stuff to look like Kodachrome"

There are some potential problems. One is the anti-aliasing filter, but that is removable. The sensor is also known to have an issue with a magenta cast, but since this is known, it can be compensated for (and as far as I can tell, it was). Lastly, there is an infamous "Quadrant Problem" which however apparently was addressed by Digital Bolex by hand calibrating each camera.

December 10, 2013 at 4:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

don't know what to think about the camera..........I'm gonna wait a see what a skill hand can do with it.

December 9, 2013 at 7:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Al

I'm not particularly invested in their success but I will say I'm glad the people who screamed "vaporware" and "scam" have to eat their words now.

December 9, 2013 at 7:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Coty

+ 1

December 9, 2013 at 8:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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+1

December 10, 2013 at 3:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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pask74

Not if it takes months for the company to deliver the preorder and the main order goal is not reached. Skepticism is just a conservative way to look at reality.

A product is more than a release. When number of units is high enough, you can depend on a company having replacement parts in stock, memory cards, etc, and the product rolls out fine.

A few years back, I was working for an audio converter manufacturer. We did a test batch which came out rather expensive as usual. We did release and deliver most of them because we were losing momentum on the marketing side. It was nothing phenomenal, but it put us a little ahead of the competition at the time. It was a successful batch. It worked fine. Most of the units went to audio reviewers and the reviews were good. In most cases, the reviewer does not pay for review units, and sometimes we don't ask for the unit back. Units that stay in their lab are repeatedly used in tests with other equipment, and this is good advertising. So, we used many units for getting reviews and sent the rest to distributors for demo.

At that point we needed about 400 units to get the price we had announced. That figure never came. We didn't get even 50 orders. So, if a few reviewers that got it for free asked for a board, we didn't have it. The parts assembled by hand and sold in electronics stores can be fixed, but some boards cost a lot of money in small units. They provide the means to do affordable electronics products, but they also impose limitations in the number of units. The alternative is point to point hand assembly which is, well, too expensive for our era, and impossible with most modern components.

It is like this in many industries. If it's a large manufacturer with 200 products, it happens all the time and it's not a problem. If it's the only product of a company, it's a case of bankruptcy and it happens in camera companies as much as it happens in audio equipment companies. All eggs in one basket. It comes with an announcement that the product is no longer in production and, in the best case, some parts are still available in small numbers. The demand cannot fund economical production. It's as simple as that.

When you think about it, it's a planning problem. If my entire audio converter market is 10000 units, a batch should never be more than 10% of it or 1000 units. This will roll nicely through the life of the product, with batches funded by revenue as it comes in. The 1000 unit cost should be used to calculate the wholesale price. If it's a converter that very few people care about, the initial batch could be a large part of the entire market and this can kill the product. Any batch after the first becomes economically infeasible. if it's a hot product, you increase pricing to cover the lower demand overhead, if it's not, it's dead. But "low demand" and "hot product" is a rare combination. So 10% it is.

I read about a 500 unit batch, so Digital Bolex could be projecting to 5000 units or more. I don't know how much Ikonoskop sold, but Digital Bolex are in the same product category with similar specs and a very low price, in the very remains of the Ikonoskop market. If it was a consumer product, 5000 would be easy with such a great price difference. Seriously, you can get 4 for the price of one Ikonoskop. Amazing bargain. I can't fathom how they can be 4 times cheaper and produce it while Ikonoskop stopped selling.

December 10, 2013 at 10:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Little Mermaido

FOOTAGE!!!!!!

December 10, 2013 at 11:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Gordon

Hello Little Mermaido,

Thanks for your great comment. Your description is very close to how things work for us. Except you left out the market research stage. Which in my opinion should be the very first stage before anything is built. For instance, we did a lot of preproduction work to understand our market size and market preferences. We purchased the market studies that were available, did a proof of concept with our kickstarter campaign, and we have now done over a year of additional market out reach. Basically what I am saying is we have done enough home work that I am confident we will sell more than 50 cameras.

I think the real message of your comment is the same message I talk about in one of our blog posts:
http://www.digitalbolex.com/funding-complex-rd-existing-product-line/
Which is if you want high quality products made to suit your needs and perform the way you want them to support small companies that work with you. If all you want is the cheapest possible price and you don't care as much about things like quality or ergonomics then buy the cheapest thing from a large company.

December 10, 2013 at 4:21PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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This is the end of the blog post if you don't want to read the whole thing...

In my monologues I often talk about how small business will one day replace large companies in many ways, and while this is true, it is not without great struggle. The truth is if we want smaller more personable, more responsive companies to be able to survive in this world we have to fight for that, and as Martin so elegantly said, we have to vote for it with our dollar.

December 10, 2013 at 4:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thanks for your response!

The problem is that this is high tech and things change fast. Statistics are not very dependable. By the time you get a report it's already old. A single product can change everything.

It's tough for small companies, start-ups need all the help they can get. We need them. That is where innovation comes from, before it becomes mainstream, and since they are romantic by nature, they will even attempt the stuff that doesn't make commercial sense.

In your case, just hang on, and stay very close to the users. The marketing is fine, now the implementation must prove its worth.

Good luck.

December 10, 2013 at 5:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Little Mermaido

Wishing you all the best on this launch. I've always been a supporter of small companies. Hoping for a S35 sensor in the future if things go well :)

December 10, 2013 at 5:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Ben

Thank you all for your support and kind words!

December 9, 2013 at 8:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Even though I'm not too interested in owning this camera, I'm really glad to see something like this come to life. Nice work.

December 9, 2013 at 8:37PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Personally I hope this should lead to a small explosion of C mount lenses or similar from third party manufacturers?! Good for BMPCC users too.

December 9, 2013 at 8:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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First of all, I'm afraid it will lead to a further explosion of prices for used c-mount lenses. I am glad I bought some essential lenses already several months ago.

December 10, 2013 at 3:49AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

Same here - Switars are partying already ;-)

December 10, 2013 at 5:12AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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pask74

Joe thanks for the hard work and producing a one man doc team camera. Planning some shooting out of country with my GH2 but now I´m thinking ¨Why not Bolex?¨ Will this be available for rental?

December 9, 2013 at 8:55PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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THAT Guy

Yes Why Not? ;)

There are some rental houses that are purchasing it for sure! We probably won't be renting it directly though.

December 9, 2013 at 9:13PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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This will make a great pairing with my new BMPCC. Just need to save a little. Congrats on the release! Can't wait to see some footage shot in real world filmmaking situations.

December 9, 2013 at 9:20PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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So, a 4K Panasonic G4 (~ $2,800) will be offered for less than DB? Sony Alpha 99 replacement, also rumored to include compressed 4K recording, should run under 3K as well. Personally, I don't see the bang for the buck here.

December 9, 2013 at 11:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

We all know you're all about 4K, but truly, resolution is only one of many important aspects to a camera. And I know for me personally, it is not the most important one.

There have been many many great films, even Oscar winning films, as recently as last year, shot on S16 film which technically has 4 times less resolution than 35mm.

Do you think those filmmakers chose S16 because the couldn't afford 35mm?
Definitely not, it's because it was the best choice for their story, and they knew that resolution is NOT the name of the game.

Do either of those 4K cameras offer you 12 bit uncompressed raw formats? How about 24 bit sound through XLR ports? How about a global shutter?

I guess value is what you perceive it to be, but for my money those things are all more important than the number of dots on a screen.

December 10, 2013 at 12:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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+1

4K is SO overhyped.

December 10, 2013 at 12:22AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Kenneth

I would much rather have a great 2K camera than a subpar 4K camera ANY day of the week.

December 10, 2013 at 12:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Coty

I'll take the bits, global shutter and XLR's any day. Oh and the Raw too. Ha.

December 10, 2013 at 12:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anthony Marino

All good points but I think its a stretch to say filmmakers chose S16 for its aesthetic and not because they couldnt afford it. Some choose it for its aesthetic, but some definitely have traditionally chosen it for budgetary reasons. Anyways excited to see what this thing is capable of, congrats on nearing the finish line!

December 10, 2013 at 1:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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carlos

I was speaking specifically about Darren Aronofsky, Wes Anderson, and Kathryn Bigelow. But I understand your point.

December 10, 2013 at 3:41AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I read that Wes Anderson chose 16mm for Moonrise Kingdom because the camera is physicaly smaller and less intimidating for child actors...

December 10, 2013 at 9:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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pete

I think that's a great reason to pick S16 :)

December 10, 2013 at 4:24PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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And why not? The same also holds for the d16. Decent footage with relatively small budget. Public European broadcasters apparently will continue to broadcast in 720p for the forseeable future.

December 10, 2013 at 3:53AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

I agree with both Joe and DLD here.

1) 1080 RAW > 4K heavily compressed

2) but sorry, this Digital Bolex D16 is still over priced from what we've seen so far. Maybe once it gets into the hands of independent pros who've purchased it then maybe the reviews and finished products we'll see from it might blow us away. But I won't be holding my breath. I reckon at a guess it might need to drop by a third or even half in price to consider purchasing it myself (but by then there will be even better value propostions out there I presume). When it was on kickstarter in 2012 this was promising incredible value, but now when it is nearly 2014.... nah, not so much.

December 10, 2013 at 1:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Though having said that.... in 2013 (now nearly 2014) we really have been kinda spoilt!!

As only a couple of years ago we'd all be bouncing of the walls in giddy excitement in being able to get a camera like the D16, and if you go back a few more years from that, we probably could hardly have dreamed this would be possible at such a low price!

But now we're so lucky and spoiled for choice that a really well specced camera like the D16 can just make us go "oh, ho hum.... is 'nice' but I'm going to just wait and see how it turns out first, no rush to buy, tweedle dee tweedle dum"

December 10, 2013 at 1:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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The only thing comparable feature to price wise even on the horizon is the bmpc4k, which will have their signature terrible ergonomics and cost $600 more and will come out god knows when.

the black magic pocket jello cam is not comparable. The gh4 will be a nice workhorse for weddings etc but its still compressed and rolling shutter.

I'm not really sure what you mean spoilt for choice. There is really still no true cinema camera in this range until now.

December 10, 2013 at 2:35AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Stewe

That's very true. A little over four years ago I talked to a well established editor who said you'll never see anything like video raw in a camera and now he eats those words every time he sees me. When it comes to digital, Moors Law is always in effect,

December 10, 2013 at 10:06AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Bolex16

Amen.

December 10, 2013 at 1:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hi, Joe. I am not "ALL" about pixels but, at this time, most of the 1080p footage shot on $1,000+ cameras look pretty much the same to me (OK, sans Amira). Let me correct myself, not the same but of essentially equal quality. Be it D7100, NEX6/7, GH3, BMPC, 70D or even 5D MKIII or D800, the video footage looks just about the same. In that case, difference comes down to workflow and budgets. So, would I recommend DB or, as an alternative, 70D with a nice lens, an outboard recorder, a stabilizer, extra batteries and a shoulder/chest rig?
.
PS. The best video buy right now is probably BMCC ($1,995, including the Resolve) and, for about $3.5K total, you can get it with the necessary accessories. So, for the same price, you can have 1080p or 2.5K. Step up to AX1, which costs about the same as DB with accessories, and, as long as you don't need to work in a high ISO environment, you also get a gorgeous 4K.
.
As to pixel peeping, new tablets, iPads and so on are exceeding the "retina" density already. New Kindle Fire has a 2560x1,600 display in a 9" size, making it 339 PPI. The latest iPhones are at 326 PPI. Asus Nexus 7 at 323. LG Nexus 5 is at 445. Samsung Galaxy S4 is at 441. Sony Experia Z at 443. (by comparison, a 4K TV is going to be just slightly over or slightly under 100 PPI on most commercial sizes). My hunch is that, within a couple of years, there'll be 8K TV screens running the 4K content and 1080p will be as obsolete as 480i.

December 11, 2013 at 1:25AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

We know your opinion on the ever growing pixel count and related devices.
By your logic no one should ever choose an Alexa over a Red or an AX1 for that matter ;)
Clearly a significant portion of the industry disagrees with you.

If you really think a baked camera with a built in lens is the way you want to go just cause it has 4K, then good luck to you.

Not the choices I would make.

And as fas as the BMCC being the best value? I agree it's the cheapest way to go, but I don't agree with the best value assessment. If you count the 24 bit 96K audio, the Global shutter CCD (which costs 4 times as much as their CMOS sensor, the built in Enterprise class SSD, and other such things I think it at least equals out ;)

December 11, 2013 at 2:52AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Joe, this is a Nikon D7100 + HDMI into a BMD Hyperdeck (in ProRes, I assume) - a combined price of around $1,500. To me, this is the limit of 1080p. It looks gorgeous and there's no need to spend double on another camera, CCD or not.
.
http://vimeo.com/64959901
.
And that's because my eyes can't see the difference. I've seen the 5D MK II Raw footage. I've seen DB. I've seen the FS-700. Properly used and graded, they all look good. If you got extra money laying around, spend it on lenses, kit, work station, etc. But, denigrate the fixed lens Sony camcorder all you like, my eyes can see the higher resolution that 4K brings along. And the colors look fine as well.

December 11, 2013 at 8:47PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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DLD

That footage looks pretty good I admit, but you still have:
1. DSLR form factor + a Hyper Deck necessitates a rig.
2. Rolling Shutter
3. Aliasing issues
4. It's still not raw so your debayering is still in camera.
and most importantly,
5. You still don't address the price / value issues with this. You still need to buy a separate sound device, enterprise class hard drive, batteries, and a rig. I guarantee that's all gonna cost more than $1500.

The D16 comes with EVERYTHING you need to shoot except a lens. Yes there are many accessories you can put on any camera, but the D16 doesn't necessitate them.

Listen I'm kinda tired of arguing with you on here so I'm gonna let you have the last word if you want to comment again.

There are some people who value shooting ergonomics, global shutter, and raw, and some people don't. If you do you think the D16 is a good value, if you don't then you don't. And that's OK, but you coming on this thread and recommending the AX1 shows you are missing the goal of our project completely and in my personal opinion kinda rude. Each to his own though.

December 11, 2013 at 9:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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See Joe's post on 4k from a few weeks ago. This will probably help understanding the philosophy behind the D16 better.
I personnally much prefer a weather sealed, truly hand-held-able super 16mm camera with high quality audio, gorgeous image quality, no rolling shutter, a proper 3-4 hours lasting internal battery, a nearly 1.5 hours super high quality internal hard drive, CF slots, proper screen, neat software, excellent forum follow-up and participation, openess to further changes and updates, etc. than a 4k discount-o-vision.

December 10, 2013 at 5:17AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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pask74

What is their cancellation policy on preorders?

December 9, 2013 at 11:53PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Philip Lipetz

can't speak for Digital Bolex, but it is my personal Impression that there are many many people in line happy to get one's spot in the preorder queue.

December 10, 2013 at 3:56AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

Great news, exciting...hope at some point you'll lend Phillip Bloom a camera and he'll give us one his very entertaining reviews. Can't wait to take this baby out for a drive myself :) Congrats

December 10, 2013 at 12:42AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anthony Marino

Phillip Bloom backed the kickstarter, so he'll be one of the first!

December 10, 2013 at 12:55AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Stewe

Nice

December 10, 2013 at 12:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Anthony Marino

I have been following the project from the beginning. Congrats and wish you guys all the success.

December 10, 2013 at 12:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Hi Joe, I know you said you will ship the first 500 soon, but when will the camera begin to ship in mass quantity? Thanks in advance.

December 10, 2013 at 1:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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We are ramping up, so first we ship 100 cameras, then we ship 500 cameras, then maybe 1000, then 2000, and so on. Depends on demand. Not sure what you mean by "mass quantities".

Hope that answers your question.

December 10, 2013 at 11:56PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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That grainy street take and beach shot posted earlier really had me. If you think this baby is too clean to look like 16mm, add appropriate amount in Filmconvert. I had a blast playing with it over the beach footage. CCD sensor is beautiful and motion blur is closer to film you could ever get without actually touching celluloid.

December 10, 2013 at 11:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Natt

Thanks! :)

December 10, 2013 at 11:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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I'm on this from the begining. . I'll order in about six months.......yes

December 12, 2013 at 4:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:21AM

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Sarah

Congratulations! An amazing achievement. Can't wait to see what people produce with this camera.

December 13, 2013 at 8:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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TiCa

The AX1? Ha ha, that's great if you need a 4K wedding video, but for anything cinematic, it's garbage. I don't get the people constantly beating off to 4K, like that's the end all be all.

December 13, 2013 at 5:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

Actually, at this point, 6K is the end all.

December 13, 2013 at 11:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

Joe
Honestly, your camera is too expensive. You can get the same results, with little discernible difference, by using a GH2 Driftwood Hacked for FAR less money. The technical difference between the DB and the GH2 adds up to little in the real world. An untrained eye will find no discernible difference between footage from your camera and a GH2. In fact the GH2 may look more appealing. But really, we don't know anything with certainty about the DB since you still have not released footage from it showing what it looks like at its best. There will be a small niche use for your camera. If you would consider 4K in the next generation you will find a larger niche. 4K is successful now. There is no waiting necessary for 4K to be successful.There is no argument about that.

December 13, 2013 at 11:37PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

No Gene, 4K is not "Successful" yet. Show me one market study that says it has even reached 10% market saturation. Doesn't exist. Even in movie theaters it has almost flat lined under 20%.
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And you maybe correct when saying an untrained eye would have a hard time telling the difference between a nicely graded D16 image and a nicely graded hacked GH2 image, but the person shooting the film would definitely know the difference. And I bet even an untrained person would be able to tell the difference if it were a hand held shot or anything but a nicely lit talking head. The real difference is in how you user experience. Every single person who puts their hands on this camera says it feels great. And they've all tried shooting video on DSLRs, many people hate that form factor for motion picture.
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And your too expensive argument holds no water.
GH2 + Additional OLPF + Audio Recorder + High Speed Media + Several batteries + Rig and you're well over the price of the D16 with a less ergonomic setup that is a pain to operate, and still gives you rolling shutter ;)
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People who only read specs think there is more value in buying 20 bits of gear and piecemealing a solution, but people who shoot all the time know the value of an integrated solution.

December 14, 2013 at 2:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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4K is likely the most successful innovation in video ever. It is growing faster than it was projected to grow. Even you have admitted in a previous comment thread it is growing faster than you had thought it would. 4K is a success!

December 14, 2013 at 9:36AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

4K may be beating very very grim projections, but it isn't a "success" yet. When it hits at least 50% market saturation in related areas, especially home viewing screens, then it will be a "success". This will take many years. Until then it is just a hopeful prediction.

December 14, 2013 at 1:00PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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This is the most recent study I could find: http://gulfnews.com/gn-focus/televisions/viewers-must-get-smart-too-1.12...
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I'll sum it up for you.
Aggressive TV markets are on a 6-8 year product replacement cycle. So just based on how many people bought HD TVs in 2012, which was a lot, 4K can't have really significant growth for 6-8 more years after that.
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4K market today less than 1% world wide market.
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At the end of 2018 it will still be less than 5%, with half of that in Asia.

December 14, 2013 at 1:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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I won't be reading studies. I'll stick with the real world.

Look at what's happening around you in the world. Don't look at projections of what may happen.

The weather in this area has been cold. Weather reports a few days ago said it was supposed to warm up. The real world around me is cold. The real world is different than what was projected by human methods.

Look around you. 4K is a success now, not in the future. It will be an even bigger success in the future. And higher K's are on the way. 6K looks fascinating and gorgeous.

December 14, 2013 at 2:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

Joe
Is your camera a success?

December 14, 2013 at 6:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

So tired of arguing with you Gene, so this will be my last comment to you on this thread.
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I'm sure your "real world" experience is more accurate than the studies done by companies that do that professionally for a living, but if I "look around me" no 4K is no where. Exactly ZERO people I know have 4K viewing systems in their home or offices. And of my many friends that work in the industry exactly ZERO of them are finishing their films in 4K. So if I look around me the less than 1% market saturation seems pretty accurate to me.
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And is my camera a success?
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Honestly I don't know, we haven't launched our store yet. But when we talk about 4K we aren't talking about one product. HD is now a success, but it took 17 years and there were many products HD oriented that failed. There were obviously many HD products that did very well also. If my product is a success or not it may not strongly influence the 2K / 1080p market one way or another. One product doesn't make a platform work or not work.
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I can't tell if that question was intentionally rude or unintentionally rude, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but if your grand contributions to the industry are how often you faun over 4K in comments sections, I would seriously re-consider your criticisms of people at least actively trying to make things better.

December 14, 2013 at 10:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Arguing? I don't think it is arguing.

You're in denial how good 4K is.

December 14, 2013 at 10:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

You perceived my question as rude? Maybe that's on you and not me. I was trying to locate what you think the word success means in the video world. If your camera sells good will that mean it is a success? It would, wouldn't it? If 4K sells good that would mean it is a success, wouldn't it? If more and more movies are shot in 4K that would mean it is a success. If 6K is immediately exciting to movies makers and they switch to it as fast as they can that would mean it is a success, wouldn't it? BluRay is a huge success even though it isn't in every home, isn't it? I see 4K is successful now. You say it will be successful years and years from now.

Honestly, I think you have some kind of subculture hang up over 4K.

December 14, 2013 at 10:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

If your camera has less than 1% of the market, and it will, then according to your definition your camera is a failure. So, do you really think your camera is a failure? I think it will sell fairly well and you will make a profit. That is success. But you will think it is not a success?

December 14, 2013 at 10:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

Seems like you very intentionally missed the point of my last comment.
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The D16 is one product in a 2K / 1080 platform. The success of one product is measured differently than the success of an entire platform.
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You may think 4K looks great, but it has very little market acceptance right now, less than 1%. Eventually it may reach market acceptance of 50% or higher, but it will take many years. That's my point. That's how I and many other people / companies measure "Success" of a platform before they invest millions in infrastructure or R&D.
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And the last two major productions I was on, both shooting 2K on an Alexa. I'm sure there are a few people falling over themselves to shoot 6K, but by no means is it the majority of the industry.

December 14, 2013 at 11:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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It wasn't long ago there was nothing done in 1080p. It didn't take decades for 1080p to become a popular format. 4K is growing more quickly than 1080p did. You did know that NetFlix and YouTube are making original content shows in 4K? ESPN is building a 4K studio, right now, not years and years from now. The world cup next year will be in 4K. The 2018 and 2020 Olympics will be broadcast by two Asian Nations in 8K.

6K just came out and it was immediately exciting to those who saw it, even saying things like they've never seen anything like it. There really is nothing stopping 6K from becoming a very hot format, albeit limited by how expensive it is. It only needs to be seen in a couple movies for it to be noticed.

While we debate 4K 6K and 8K are already in use or are in the works.

December 14, 2013 at 11:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

BTW, I didn't very intentionally miss anything. Relax.

December 14, 2013 at 11:39PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

Can we cut the BS about 6K being "the thing" or being "a standard"? Seriously the RED Epic is the only camera to my immediate knowledge that shoots 6K and thats grand but everytime someone starts talking about it its the same rabid Red fan crap coming out of peoples mouth, if RED released an Epic that shot 6.666666K people would say "OMG 6.6666666K is the standard and its amazing 1080p is dead!!!!111one11111rabid1!!" like it was the gospel. Don't get me wrong I love 4K, 5K, 6K whatever high res format but the arrogance around literally numbers is so annoying its not even funny anymore. I don't care if you camera shoots fricken 88K with an option for RAW Live vector images, you think that the audience will care if your content is crap? I feel like 60% of people who talk about RED and 6K are just kids sitting on their computer with their cheap DSLR and no portfolio to show for. I'm not saying I'm better but I don't delude myself with this crap about high resolutions and what not.

December 15, 2013 at 1:39AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Nate O

I hope you aren't referring to me. I didn't say 6K is a standard. If you are referring to me you are exaggerating. I never said 1080p is dead---and I wouldn't.

Have you spoken with Peter Jackson about his adolescence and delusion over 4K/6K? He is the biggest fan of Red there is.

December 15, 2013 at 7:19AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene