George Saunders iso ne of those authors who blew my mind when I first read him. It was his short story book, The 10th of December, and I devoured it all in one sitting. It was so good.

Since then, I have gone back to his writing to see how it tears at the soul and how it finds humor even in dark times.

Well, I was excited to find this deeply reflective episode of The Interview from The New York Times, where George Saunders sits down with David Marchese to discuss his new novel, Vigil, and the philosophical life he's spent in pursuit of kindness and craft.

Let's dive in.

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The Three Delusions of the Self

This was the through line of this hour-long video and something I think that will resonate with writers and filmmakers.

It's what Saunders calls the "trio of delusions" that govern most human suffering.

And as artists, I think we can all relate to that!

According to Saunders, we are biologically and psychologically wired to believe three things that simply aren't true:

  1. Permanence: The belief that we are not leaving and that death is something that happens to others.
  2. Centrality: The feeling that we are the "star of the movie," with everyone else acting as co-stars or extras.
  3. Separation: The idea that we are distinct, isolated islands (e.g., "I am George and you are not").
Okay, these are massive ideas that all need to be unpacked.

Permanence

I was talking with a friend yesterday, and they were asking me why I stay in Hollywood when things are bad, and the money is slow. Why don't I go do anything else?

And without hesitation, I said, "Because I'm going to die someday!"

While I hope it's not for a long time, death comes for us all. And I believe we really only get one life. So, I am choosing to spend it chasing a dream I think is important in a place that fosters it, even when hope dwindles down to a sliver. This may seem insane, but it's what keeps me going.

It's what drives me to write that next spec and to keep going. You get one shot, don't put it off. If you want something, you might have to work and sacrifice for it, but if you don't, you may live a life where you never get it anyway...so why not try?

Centrality

This has more to do with how you handle yourself. If you're trying to break into Hollywood, the best way is to do the hard work and then network and try to find people who can give you a leg up in opportunities.

But take a step back and realize that you might be able to help other people, too.

Once you lose your grip on the idea that it's you versus everyone, you'll be able to actually build a community of friends willing to help one another. That will not only feel better but also get you further.

And in Hollywood, you need those allies to make any sort of dent on the industry.

Separation

We write or direct because we feel alone. We want to remove people and show them what we have. But Saunders’ idea of "Separation" is the wall that every great scene and story tries to kick down.

Empathy is the antidote to separation. When you make a reader feel the heartbeat of a character who is "not them," you have successfully debunked this delusion.

Your goal is to get a connection, not to push people away.

The most powerful climax isn't usually a physical fight; it’s a moment of profound connection where the boundary between "Me" and "You" vanishes.

And the same goes for a script ot a movie, you want projects that bring people into the theater, not ones that tell them to go away.

Summing It All Up

The rest of the hour is powerful and worth watching as well. In fact, the interview concludes with a poignant memory of Saunders returning to his old college dorm room. He's standing at the same window where he once sat as an ambitious, "grotesquely out of touch" student; he reflects on the beauty of a life where the "stupid dreams of being a prodigy" failed, allowing something more earnest and human to take their place.
At the end of my life, I hope to look back in a similar way and be proud of the work I've done and the things I've made.
And I hope other filmmakers get to feel the same way.
Let me know what you think in the comments.