December 19, 2013

Digital Bolex Case Study: 5SecondFilms Takes the D16 Camera for a Spin

It's happening! It's finally happening! The Digital Bolex team, after their years-long journey from conception to finalized product, has at last released their D16 digital cinema camera into the world. We've already seen the first major review from our very own Joe Marine. However, Joe (Rubinstein) and Elle have been making their way around the country debuting the camera and putting it into the hands of eagerly awaiting filmmakers. Some of the first filmmakers to put the D16 into their workflow are the extremely funny folks over at 5SecondFilms, a Los Angeles-based comedic filmmaking troupe. In a guest post on the Digital Bolex blog, 5Second filmmaker, Tim Ciancio talks about his first practical experience with the D16.

First and foremost, for those of you who are unfamiliar with 5SecondFilms, the premise is exactly what it sounds like: a joke or a complete story is told entirely in 120 frames. That's one hell of a task just in itself, but to add to the mayhem, the 5SecondFilms team has been making one film per weekday for the past 5 or so years.

Here are a few of the better 5SecondFilms compilation videos. Some of these are definitely NSFW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiq-x96D4mo

Now that you've got an idea of what the 5SecondFilms team does with their time, it should be clear that they are constantly in a never-ending cycle of production and post in order to produce a new video every weekday. Needless to say, simplicity of use and an easy post workflow are critical pieces of their operation. Here's what Tim says about how the D16 fits into the 5SecondFilms production environment:

We mounted a SmallHD HDMI monitor to the top shoe mount and fired it up with c-mount lenses that Joe had supplied. I set the custom jog wheels on the side of the camera to control ISO and shutter speed. As a regular Canon 5D shooter, I needed these settings available on the fly. I plugged in the mounted shotgun mic directly into the XLR inputs on the side of the camera body with a sigh of relief. Finally a standardized feature on a camera that I’ve missed dearly over the past years by being accustomed to having to use an external recorder with DSLR production. Each input has it’s own independent input volume control on the side for quick adjustments, and supplies phantom power.

Digital Bolex 5SecondFilms

As much as we've talked about the Digital Bolex in the past, most of those posts have been focused squarely on either the image quality or the ergonomics of the camera, and not the astounding audio features that are built directly into the D16. The Digital Bolex features 2 balanced XLR inputs that deliver 24 bit 96kHz audio, which is actually superior to some of the cheaper audio recorders on the market. As such, depending on the scale of the audio in your production, the D16 can alleviate the need for an external recorder in your production workflow, which also makes post production a bit more streamlined.

Speaking of post production, here's what Tim had to say about the post workflow and the D16's Cinema DNG files:

We move fast as a production team and I was worried about the post workflow taking up valuable time out of our day. We dumped the footage to an external drive using a USB 3.0 connection and using the Digital Bolex software on a MacBook Pro and got our first looks at the takes. The program was surprisingly simple to use with an intuitive layout with all the color tools available on one surface. After a simple color grade adjustment of the mid-tones for skin, and adjusting the sharpen to bring out the detail I output the clips using ProRes 444 in 2k 16:9 (2048×1152) for editing in FCP 7.

It seems safe to say at this point that Pomfort's ClipHouse software is the perfect tool to accompany the Digital Bolex in that it mirrors the simplicity and functionality of the camera itself. It's also interesting to see the D16 being used in a run-and-gun style production and post environment where speed and ease of use are absolutely key. It seems rather counterintuitive that a s16 RAW camera could fit into a workflow like that, but the Digital Bolex is proving to be a fantastically useful tool in a good many shooting situations.

With that, here's the 5SecondFilm that was recently shot on the D16:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOiSdkqx1do

And here are Tim's final thoughts on the Digital Bolex:

Overall the camera had all the welcomed functionality of a run and gun camera body with the flexibility of shooting in a RAW format for post. The workflow was surprisingly quick and easy in comparison to our usual DSLR, and RED camera sync and transcode workflows.

To read the rest of Tim's post, head on over to the Digital Bolex blog. And of course, if you're in the market for a new camera, the D16 is now available for pre-order.

What do you guys think? Is the D16 going to prove a valuable tool for filmmakers on the run? Will the audio features of the camera help small productions rid themselves of dual-system workflows? Let us know in the comments!

Link: Guest Post 5SecondFilms -- Digital Bolex Blog

Your Comment

109 Comments

Pretty ugly red shift in the image imo. What's with all the buy a bolex spam lately? Is this nofilmschool's new advertising? Did Koo invest in the company? It seems so out of place.

December 19, 2013 at 4:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Roland

The backing that Digital Bolex has been getting from nofilmschool lately is next to ridiculous. It's a pity really cause I thought this site was purely about filmmaking.

December 19, 2013 at 1:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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demetris

We write about the Digital Bolex because we firmly believe in the product and the people making it. If you take issue with that, then don't read the posts about the D16. It's that simple.

December 19, 2013 at 2:10PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4503

What an arrogant reply! Don't read nofilmschool you said? Done! So long and thanks for the fish.

December 19, 2013 at 3:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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exfishead

lol

December 19, 2013 at 4:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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IAN

I'm sure everyone will really miss exfishead and all he brought to the table.

December 19, 2013 at 6:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

Good riddance.

December 20, 2013 at 10:01AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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John

well said

December 19, 2013 at 4:26PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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apples

If you take an issue about people taking an issue, don't write about it.

December 21, 2013 at 8:11AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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zeke

um, simple color correct would've fixed that, but they clearly didn't. so who cares?

December 19, 2013 at 2:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Allen

Probably because it's a new camera that's interesting, and I'm glad they're doing it because I;'m curious about the camera. Same reason I want them to keep writing about Black Magics or whatever.

December 19, 2013 at 5:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

Hi, please see here: http://nofilmschool.com/2013/12/digital-bolex-d16-review-part-1-first-im...

Joe is trying to charge us camera backers for the PL mount we were promised with our orders. In his reply he claims that they won't give us one because they're having someone else make it. This camera is not being made by them either, but rather by ienso and Cinemiridian is not ienso. Bags also made by someone else, lenses, list goes on
Just another case of us backers getting short end of the stick. Someone please cover this, we have had enough

December 19, 2013 at 4:23AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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The Ripped us Off

Who's "we"? You're the only one complaining about that. Cancel your order, not very hard is it?

December 19, 2013 at 9:15AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mitch

In all fairness, it would a huge letdown to the camera backers if they had to wait a year and a half just to cancel their orders. But I don't even think they can do that since there's no refunds on Kickstarter and I'd imagine many have already asked for refunds at this point. Anyway, I totally respect his point. If the backers are now not getting a pricey part of what they signed up for then that's a pretty big deal.

December 19, 2013 at 9:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Avi

x1000

December 19, 2013 at 7:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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backers were promised the mount of their choice from the ones that DB are manufacturing.
They are not manufacturing the PL mount. Your'e the only one who seems to have an issue
with this. If you don't like it cancel your order or and let someone else waiting in line take it.

December 19, 2013 at 1:07PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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lopo

A simple research of the Kickstarter will show you are wrong. The promise was never that they had to make the mounts and they never said they would even make any mounts.

December 19, 2013 at 2:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Yves

Hi Everyone,
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I have tried to directly interact with the commenter above.
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All of the backers that we have spoken to are very supportive of what we are doing and still very eager to get their cameras. And all of the backers know they can contact us at: info@digitalbolex.com or on our forum to resolve any issues.
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The fact that the above commenter has not even attempted to contact us and only chooses to make public cries makes me believe they are not a backer in fact.
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There are people who would like to see us fail for some reason. That makes me a little sad, but I can deal with it.
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If one of our backers has an honest issue please contact us and we will do our best to resolve it.
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Thanks, Joe

December 19, 2013 at 8:23PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Joe I think you should publicly adress this guy's concern. There's more than one camera backer. And I looked into it, you're actually going to have to give them the mounts:
http://m.inc.com/?incid=46116
Or refund them the value that they'd have to pay for them be it from you or whoever is the other maker.

December 19, 2013 at 9:35PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Michel

Hi Michael,
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Thanks for your comment.
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Just want to be clear again. A total number of zero actual kickstarter backers have contacted us asking for this.
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Also, the mount wasn't something they paid for. It was something we added for free if we hit our $250K extended goal. So no one paid for the mount in the first place.

December 20, 2013 at 1:08AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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lol, Joe I'm sorry but you're setting yourself up for some real bad legal trouble. You can't just say, oh it was a stretch goal, we don't want to give it to them anymore. It was listed in the Kickstarter so The Ripped and Michel are right, you're going to have to give it to them. You made it something they paid for the moment you added the stretch goal

December 20, 2013 at 1:31AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Ben Rejs

Joe. STAHP. Just give them their darn mounts :P

December 20, 2013 at 4:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Marie

We are still offering free mounts to our KS backers. Just ones that we develop, manufacture, and sell, which is what we said in the KS. You can check it out yourselves. We don't really have control over third party accessories. That's like asking us why we can't lower the price on Arri's baseplate they're building us, or give it away for free... it's not our product!

December 20, 2013 at 1:17PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Elle

This is the third or fourth thread that you have used to drag out your soapbox and spin your yarn. Joe has already answered you on this forum regarding the PL mount (which won't be ready until after the new year anyway) and I would not be surprised if he has already contacted you via email. Why don't you him on the phone and work this out like two men, instead of using this forum to throw a tantrum and slander the company for no good reason?

I just put an order in for a D16 and have been in contact with Joe and Elle for the past few months. There is no problem and I look forward to shooting with my camera soon.

December 19, 2013 at 10:45PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Martin

Where are the others? Looks to me like this is the second time he posted it, plus Joe's response wasn't exactly satisfactory. If he settles it with Joe personally then the other backers still get screwed over. I say good for him making a stand if they're being cheated!

December 20, 2013 at 12:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Norm

Hi Norm,
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I agree with you. If there is someone getting cheated then they should speak up.
In this case though, this guy is not even a backer that's why he can't use his real name.
His only intention is to stir the pot and get people angry.
If he was a backer he would have reached out and tried to contact us at least once ever.
If he has time to write multiple comments he should have time to email us at least one time.
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The fact is that backers are getting much more camera than what was promised them. We have upgraded the cameras to 512GB drives, instead of 256GB, we have upgraded to 96K 24bit sound instead of 16 / 48, we have added a sealed sensor compartment and other wether seals, and many many other things that weren't in the original spec, because backers have requested them.
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We have been at this full time for over a year, so we have personal relationships with most of the backers. I am pretty sure this guy is not one of them.

December 20, 2013 at 1:20AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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I'm glad to see you're defending your camera but this is becoming like "How Not To Handle Your Kickstarter."

That was like a string of non-seqituer excuses. I actually feel like you're only backing up his claim more.

December 20, 2013 at 1:45AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Norm

THE INTERNET: where people get outraged on behalf of unoutraged people.

Here's the deal. We are offering free mounts that we make to our KS backers. That's been on the table for a long time, as a thank you *bonus* when we reached our extended KS goal.

"Thanks to you we can not only make this camera happen, but we can start making new mounts," is one quote. Here's another: "our next milestone is $200,000, which will fund the manufacturing of each of the additional mounts, as well as some of the accessories we really want to make."

We were never specific on the KS campaign page as to which mounts those would be because we didn't yet know which mounts would be feasible, so nobody was *promised* a specific mount. What they were promised is that they would get *a* mount, which we are 100% following through on. EF and M43 were our most requested mounts, so those are the ones we prototyped. We hoped to have PL as an option, but realized after some time we couldn't reasonably design it in house. That sucks. We also hoped to have B4 and Nikon, but those aren't even in the cards right now, though hopefully in the future they will be.

The bottom line is another company decided to make a PL mount for our camera, and we cannot offer other companies' products for free. They are not our products. We don't control the R&D costs, the build materials, the price points, the cost of their employees, or their retail estimates. If we can negotiate a good deal on these items, that would be awesome! And that's exactly what we're trying to do, and why we haven't made any decisions or announcements about the PL mount yet. We have been in contact with all of our backers who have inquired about this, and as Joe said, exactly zero have responded with any issues.

Because our backers get it. They donated to help realize a complex product. This was always going to be an evolving process, and I don't think anyone would have donated who wasn't okay with that. And our response so far from those who donated has been fantastic. We've had a chance to shoot with some backers already; two have posted guest posts on our blog. We see backers in person from time to time, and talk to at least half on a regular basis. The others seem pretty content to check in when they need to, or sit back and wait for their cameras to arrive, which is cool too. We appreciate all the support we've gotten, passive or active.

And in addition to the $800 discount on the camera itself, we're delivering each KS backer a thousand dollars in freebies. Which is a pretty sweet deal. And so is the guarantee we've made to inquisitive backers about the PL mounts, because we know some people do want that mount, and we want to make that as easy and as inexpensive as we can for the people who supported us. Free, if we're able to. But the thing isn't even done, so we can't say anything with certainty yet.

December 20, 2013 at 2:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Elle

Well, judging from the comments section, no one really cares about the DB, which is normal judging from the footage so far..can't the backers ask for their money back?

December 19, 2013 at 8:27AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Michael

True, this is the worst footage the D16 has produced so far, but it seems like that has more to do with the people behind the camera than the hardware itself.. their stuff is about content, but in terms of visuals all the 5sec stuff looks pasty. Previous D16 footage looked great, and these notes on workflow are an interesting supplement.
NFS is prolly posting a lot about this since it is the first 'affordable' camera with a CCD sensor and serious peripherals. Moreover, it is actually being delivered on time (..seems BMPCC loses in all those categories? or even RED, for that matter.) As for the comment on not all parts being made in-house: no one does that. literally, not one company.

December 19, 2013 at 9:58AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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OK

I wouldn't say this is the worst the camera has produced. I actually thought this looked like a big improvement over the previous stuff. But I don't think you know much about this camera if you think it's being delivered on time. See I agree on the last part, and you're exactly proving his point: no one manufactures in house, making Joe's I-don't-want-to-give-you-a-mount-we-aren't-making point moot.

December 19, 2013 at 10:32AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Avi

"Moreover, it is actually being delivered on time"

The camera is a year and a half late. Estimated delivery according to the Kickstarter page was July/August 2012.

December 19, 2013 at 11:14AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Andy Smith

This looks a lot less like oversharp video than the bmpc and bmpcc. It's been poorly graded and shot, but IQ and motion rendition is superb.

December 19, 2013 at 1:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Lodidodi

Remember this thread?
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2568/digital-bolex-get-raw...
This is what we should have seen in articles about this camera from the very beginning. 22 pages of all flavours of shading things from using a CCTV camera as their "prototype" to not building the right sized boards for the camera bodies, hiring porn stars as camera company employees and confusion over how to get their image working (after several missed release dates.)
These are the things I'm surprised we haven't seen mentioned once here.

December 19, 2013 at 10:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mike

Shady things*

December 19, 2013 at 10:47AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mike

Most of that thread seems like catty gossip without any knowledge. Might as well read about people who hate actors winning Oscars or whatever. They really had a porn star working there? Who cares?

December 19, 2013 at 5:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

I can't make anything out in that thread. Vitaliy at Personal view can definitely be rather cryptic regarding sometimes his opinions. He seems to think that the camera is some sort of vaporware or a shady scam of sorts. If its shady or scamy then it's one of the most inefficient scams I've ever seen. I hope this camera does well and all the future owners create good work. It definitely meets the needs of a lot of shooters.

December 19, 2013 at 6:30PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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ArchiCine

Some people are always looking for the dark side to everything, they're negative people. Now maybe there IS underhanded stuff going on, but I didn't see anything in that thread that screamed anything out to me...and now here is the camera, it does exist.

December 19, 2013 at 6:34PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

The image looks worse than D7100 in ProRes (via Hyperdeck or Samurai) or even graded BMPCC in ProRes. It's OK for the 1080p image but hardly worth $3K, IMO.

December 19, 2013 at 10:46AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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DLD

It's all in how you shoot, what lens and how you grade. This ungraded landscape footage looks fantastic and way different than the 5 Seconf film:

December 19, 2013 at 12:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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December 19, 2013 at 12:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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The available footage still doesn't look superior to any available major brand cameras sold in the US in the $1K-$2K range despite DB being priced at ~ $3.5K. In terms of the workflow, one still needs a kit which pushes the price even higher. And there are remaining questions to the dependability, service, etc. At least, the brand name manufacturers have a track record, global infrastructure, etc. BMD may have the same questions as well but, at least, they undercut the major brand prices by a significant percentage to make their cameras worth a risk. RED, with the same set of problems, approached it from the opposite end, making a very high end camera. But RED has huge financial muscles and is also a price cutter visavis its competition in the pro end. DB's advantages of Raw, CCD and XLR are minor, given its asking price. ProRes does the codec just fine in this end of the market. The megapixel CMOS sensors are of high enough quality and the outboard sound recorders are affordable. Now, what are other reasons for someone to pay $3.5K a DB?

December 19, 2013 at 4:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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DLD

The reason why I'm personally considering it is, unlike the two thousand dollar BMCC, this has a global shutter (which I'd really like to have) and the audio seems great. Yeah, I can get a two thousand BMCC, but then I gotta buy something for audio and deal with that...oh yeah, and get a battery solution too. And then a cage to keep it all together. So it's not REALLY two grand, not to make it workable.

December 19, 2013 at 5:33PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

haha, yeah right. Enjoy the camcorder look of bm do you?

December 19, 2013 at 1:12PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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apaul

BM looks camcorder? I think it looks amazing. If I were ONLY going for the look, it would be that. The problem is everything else, that is one badly designed camera.

December 20, 2013 at 11:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

Everyone needs to keep in mind that this post has absolutely nothing to do with the footage, but instead with how the D16 fits into a hectic run-and-gun workflow. If you watched any of the 5 Second Films, it should be clear to you that these guys focus their efforts on the comedy and the process of fitting a story into 5 seconds, and not making it look pretty. By judging their footage and making the jump that the D16 is a bad camera, you're completely missing the point.

December 19, 2013 at 12:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4503

They are not winning over anyone by allowing shoddy footage to come out the gate. They should have put a few cameras in the hands of top pros and let them go at it. Marketing is everything. Word of mouth is powerful. Amateur hour is bad for business.

December 19, 2013 at 12:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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The Rising

December 19, 2013 at 12:59PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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I don't think they need to win anyone over, they have already shown great examples. The first 100 cameras are spoken for and I imagine the 500 presales will sell out fast.

I think anonymous comments here need to end. Facebook linked accounts only. Then watch the spineless haters crawl back into the darkness of their mom's basements.

December 19, 2013 at 1:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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apaul

The negativity and gross arrogance of the commenters on this site is sad to me. There's rarely even one positive comment out of a dozen for any post NFS puts up. I've successfully been in this business for 12 yrs and dislike the people in it more and more, this community is no especially.
Thank you NFS for the work you do and I would urge you to consider disabling comments all together, it's really a poisonous environment.

Happy holidays never the less.

December 19, 2013 at 12:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Robert

I agree for the most part. WAY too much negativity.

December 19, 2013 at 12:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Coty

I couldn't agree more. Here we have another company trying to give all of us yet another option, forcing the hand of camera crippling companies like Canon to give us better products for less money, and all people want to do is bitch and complain. These same people are sitting at home alone and not actually out there doing something with themselves. Way way too much negativity in this world, and the online world is the most repugnant example.

If someone is having genuine problems with getting what was paid for and promised to them, that should in fact earn equal coverage, however you can't just post something like that without looking into it thoroughly, or at least this site itself cannot.

December 19, 2013 at 1:16PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Hey Robert,

We're definitely working on building a much stronger community in v2.0 of NFS. It's one of the absolute top priorities. In the mean time, stick with us and try to ignore all the haters, because when we launch the new version, this place is going to be awesome.

Thanks for reading, and happy holidays!

December 19, 2013 at 1:25PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Rob Hardy
Founder of Filmmaker Freedom
4503

Glad to hear you guys are working on it. You guys do some great work and those of us who don't come here to hate appreciate it.

December 19, 2013 at 1:29PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Coty

Can't wait for the reboot! The dickish comments, negativity and weird camera/resolution cabals have gotten absurd. Lively debate and strong opinions are vital for any creative community, but some people on here seem to have forgotten they're talking about (or to) actual real-life human beings. I actually feel a little embarrassed knowing that the D16 Joe guy has to trawl through all the poison to answer comments. You can dislike something and still be cool about it people.

December 19, 2013 at 3:49PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mak

I sure hope so. I enjoy this site very much, but I wish people would use the comments to further productive discussion and help everyone learn and grow. It is very frustrating to see the negativity over petty things that are tangent to the topic at hand.

December 19, 2013 at 4:08PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Morgan Simpson

Hey man, I think a good upvote / downvote system works great, like on Reddit. The cream will usually rise to the top, and negativity will usually be buried.

December 20, 2013 at 10:10AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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John

+1 And posts connected to the Digital Bolex seem to draw out the trolls more than any others. It's surprising to me how many people have jumped on the bandwagon of negativity regarding this camera, especially all those associated with the site linked above. They have been calling this camera "vaporware" since Day 1 and yet Joe and team have still managed to get a physical version of the camera into shooters hands. Strangely none of these vaporware trolls have admitted they were wrong.

Every camera and piece of gear has its faults and every piece of gear is designed for different styles of shooting. Sometimes I think many here want a piece of gear that does everything, shoots in 4K, includes a global shutter, shoots north of 120fps, makes images requiring no lighting, brews coffee on the side, etc and all under a $1000... As someone who has been in the industry for almost 20yrs, I say some of you don't know how fortunate you are to have so much choice at affordable price points. More products means more competition which is good for all of us.

Totally agree with the comments about either disabling the comments section of adding some form of verification so the anonymous trolls don't have any place to hide.

December 19, 2013 at 2:19PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Neil

How lucky we have it???? Ummm, hello it's called advancement in technology, as with any other field. 20 years in this biz has nothing to do with the real intelligentsia who are the engineers and scientists putting in R&D behind technology. Luckily we don't have the dino filmmakers in the lab cos Lord knows how much they senselessly crave nostalgia...the stone age is gone, deal with it.

On the other hand, I have commented in the past that the negative criticism on nfs are too much. From the posts, there are lots of hobbyists and less real world professionals on here. That is my assessment

December 19, 2013 at 3:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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thadon calico

I like how you're complaining about negativity right after you wrote a really obnoxious post. Get some self-awareness, man.

December 19, 2013 at 5:38PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

Noooo..... don't disable comments! While sure, sometimes many of the comments are negative, other times though I end up learning more from reading the discussions in the comments than the post itself which got it started :-)

December 19, 2013 at 7:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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It's been really discouraging for me over the past year especially. I don't frequent NFS nearly as much as I used to for this reason alone. Hateful, immature and unprofessional comments WAY too much.

December 20, 2013 at 11:54AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Jeff

It's not hating. Every footage they've released is bad, that's a fact, not hatred. Also, another fact is that nofilmschool nowadays is essentially selling stuff to amateur and consumers, still, no hate, just facts. I wish you to build the community you long for, but I wouldn't be so optimistic about your crowd, unless this is what you are targeting. In that case I wish you the best.

December 19, 2013 at 1:48PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Michael

Also,if anyone would take the time, go to the Digital Dolex site, download some of their available DNG files, grade, and see if it suits them, then read some of the D16 forum posts. Joe and Elle are pretty transparent and great with interacting with the forum members - tons of info! A little research peeps goes a long way.

December 19, 2013 at 1:57PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Actually if the 5sf guys are going to be using this for their next project "Slumber Party Massacre" then this is the perfect camera for them, I mean that feature basically a parody of old B-Movie slasher films, so super 16 seems pretty good for them, global shutter, xlr right to camera for simple shooting, makes sense.

I think im one of the few that likes the Digital Bolex on this site... It looks good and it more options for us.

December 19, 2013 at 2:40PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Xiong

I do apologies for my spell errors/grammar haha

December 19, 2013 at 2:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Xiong

I like them too. If they offered a 4k version I'd jump on it (hate to sound like a 4k junkie on that).

December 19, 2013 at 2:43PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Coty

You should read Joe's post on why they didn't go 4k. I found the info cleared my decision to buy one:
http://www.digitalbolex.com/to_4k_or_not_to_4k/

December 19, 2013 at 2:52PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Oh yeah I completely agree. I'd rather have a great 2k cam than a subpar 4k cam.

December 19, 2013 at 2:58PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Coty

I doubt they'll be using the D16 on their next project, as they just got to use it this time because Joe Rubinstein was passing through at the time with the camera.

December 19, 2013 at 8:02PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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I love the drama. It's so funny to read watching camera nerds argue over petty things . It's just a camera . Maybe spend more time on your crappy script than worrying about telling some camera manufacturer how much they suck . If you don't like it don't buy it. Simple .

December 19, 2013 at 3:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Rob Thomas

Yeah, people seem really personally offended about other cameras, and now they have to avenge their honor or something. People talk about their perfect camera but I never get the sense that they're doing any shooting. For me I LOVE the look of the BMCC but I'm not sure if it seems like a pain to shoot what I do...Bolex looks a lot closer to the kind of camera I can get a lot done with...but the footage so far hasn't looked nearly as good. In the end I'll go with the best look and deal with the other issues if I have to, but it'd be nice to have it all in one camera.

December 19, 2013 at 5:42PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

What so many complaints? Look how far Plescia pushed the footage and then look at this video. It's produced exactly how how it weas meant. If they wanted a cinematic quality "look" I'm sure they wouldve blocked differently and used a different lens. Its video that can maybe resemble film in the right hands. If you ask me this camera has range and like another poster stated, very nice motion rendition. Not bad for under 5 grand, we just gotta see how it handles low light. These people are delivering man...enjoy it.

December 19, 2013 at 3:11PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Anthony Marino

One of their first lowlight tests.:
http://vimeo.com/74159118

December 19, 2013 at 3:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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What I've seen from D16 and the Black Magic cameras so far doesn't come close to the Kineraw Mini or the Kineraw S35, I wonder why these cameras have had so little impact in the west. I ordered my Mini two months ago and it took only 2 weeks to deliver, and I'm quite happy with it... it does have some issues, but most of them are probably fixable by future firmware updates (there have been 2 firmware updates already since I got mine). These are really good cameras, I hope people will pay some more attention to them.

December 19, 2013 at 3:22PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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luciano

Checkout EOSHD side by side comparison of the kineraw to other cameras. It doesn't even out shoot the 5dRAW. Not a good cam sorry.

December 19, 2013 at 4:31PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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apples

Because it doesn't outshoot the 5dRaw it's not a good camera? This is pathetic. People here are so into the 'vs' mindset that they can't understand that every camera has it's own look. The KineRaw Mini is lovely. Just as good as the BMCC and 5dRaw. Each one has pros over the other. However, the KineRaw has a massive feature list.

At the end of the day they all suck if you suck. I wish you people stop trying to make it "one camera is better than the other" already.

December 19, 2013 at 7:50PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Thank you!

December 21, 2013 at 7:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Not to go into camera-bashing mode since there's been far too much of that here already, I'll just say you really need to look closely at the kiniRAW before you buy... there are some pretty big issues with that camera and its variants. Also, the dynamic range is far below DB, BMCC, Acam and even the 5D III. Please do your homework anybody who is thinking about getting a kiniraw!

December 20, 2013 at 10:17AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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John

If I could pee myself I would, but I just pee'd. Nice WORK. W-O-R-K is when you do shit! Great job. Funny Shit too.

Danny Ahlfeld

December 19, 2013 at 7:51PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Danny

anyone know what loupe they're using on that smallhd monitor

December 19, 2013 at 8:41PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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grant

I think a lot of the negativity - about this or any other camera - would be avoided if the manufacturers got it into the hands of top-notch professionals earlier... Whatever you're shooting on - whether it's RED, Phantom, Alexa - it all has the potential to look a bit crap unless you've got someone who really knows what they're doing, lighting-wise.

With that in mind, I'd love to see more well-lit studio based footage coming out in advance of camera releases. It baffles me that you'd spend so much on the development of the technology and then so little on such a huge part of your marketing. Get some hot young DoP to churn out a soulless but swanky looking test ad (like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j9q8yw8E7E - but on a friendly budget!) and I'll put my name down for one - until then, I don't entirely see how anyone can know what these cameras are capable of, because nobody has really put them through their paces yet.

I know the example ad I've used is a) black and white b) not the best and c) for a big brand - but it's one of the first things that came up when I whacked 'Arri Alexa' into Youtube. If I do the same for the DB, there's nothing on the first page of results that really shows me what the camera can do. I know it's early days - but they need to hit the ground running if they're going to be able to stick around, and a campaign of amazing looking footage should have been part of the strategy.

I've really got my fingers crossed for them - they've achieved a lot already, and it's exciting to see them taking on the industry giants... but with every week that goes by without some amazing footage appearing online (or, conversely, the appearance of another slightly disappointing video), lots of people spend their money elsewhere. I can understand the negativity - though I don't condone the trolling. I think there's just a lot of people out there who are waiting - and desperately wanting - to be shown the one piece of footage that makes them think, 'Fuck - I HAVE to have this'.

December 19, 2013 at 9:36PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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They had this discussion on the forum. Some people were suggesting that Bolex find a very experienced DoP to put together a wiz bang demo reel, but Joe was more of the opinion that he wanted to put the camera in to the hands of ordinary people and show what they came up with. I admire Joe for his idealism and sticking to his beliefs, but I also believe that this was a strategic misstep.

But I am certain that once the camera gets out that we will see some impressive work. I am convinced that they have produced a camera capable of some very impressive footage.

My guess is thatthe D16 will deliver IQ similar to, if not better than the sony f35 for the cost of its matte box. Also this will be raw, not rgb444 video.

December 19, 2013 at 11:15PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Walter

Yeah, doing that is a major problem...let's have non-pros making terrible looking videos and being cute and oh look, a ukelele! Sorry man, that doesn't make me want to spend over three grand.

December 20, 2013 at 11:11AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

"I think there’s just a lot of people out there who are waiting – and desperately wanting – to be shown the one piece of footage that makes them think, ‘Fuck – I HAVE to have this’."

+1

The camera (or cameras) used in first video above, the "Top 20 5 Second Films Part 2", actually had a more appealing look than the DB. They were used on the run and gun too, a lot, and they worked just fine. I do agree DB needs to make a more appealing video if they want to impress. It being run-and-gun-able is not enough. It needs to look worth the money. When Panasonic released the GH3 they had two professionals, Philip Bloom and Bruce Logan, work together to show the potential of the camera. The video was called "Genesis". Here it is on vimeo: http://vimeo.com/49420579

These unimpressive clips coming from the DB will not be enough to create excitement to make it a big seller---even if it can be used on the run and gun, with XLR inputs and 24 bit 95kHz audio (which I have said from the beginning I like about this camera). If the DB is capable of looking better than the GH2/3, as we've been told it is, then DB needs to enlist the help of professionals and make it look better than i\the GH2/3. Because the truth is the GH2 Hacked and GH3 are in direct competition with the DB. It's not of any use for commenters on the internet to tell us the DB is better than the GH's just because. We need to see it.

I can understand why the DB would work good for run and gun. But show us its potential in the image.

December 20, 2013 at 12:18AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

"If the DB is capable of looking better than the GH2/3, as we’ve been told it is.."

lol.. Of all the ridiculous things you have said on this site, this has got to top 'em all. Unbelievable.

December 20, 2013 at 4:43AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mitch

You can disagree with someone without getting personal - there's no need for it and it doesn't make any of us better filmmakers. There's a lot of truth in what he's saying too - the DB has potential, but we're not seeing it fully implemented yet. With the GH2/3 (especially the GH2) there's been a LOT of high quality stuff shot. Being told something is better is a lot different to having it demonstrated - tech specs and test cards alone aren't enough. I'm really hoping that when the first few shoots come in they knock it out of the park - because I think what they're attempting is HUGE and I love the idea...

...I just wish that stuff had been shot already!

December 20, 2013 at 7:50AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Thanks dad. I've seen footage from the GH2/3 and if you like that kind of look then that's great. "High quality stuff" is a pretty ambiguous statement I think, also subjective, but again - great if you like it! Now, without having seen a lot of footage from the Digital Bolex, since it's only just being shipped, I'm absolutely positively sure that it will be more than capable of producing images beyond 'better' than the GH2; it's ridiculous to even compare the two.

December 20, 2013 at 11:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mitch

Nick Driftwood really did to a great job with that GH2 hack.

December 21, 2013 at 12:11AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

I think these five second guys just grab a camera and shoot really fast, I doubt they're using a lot of equipment. So we don't know yet. I bet they spent a lot on that Genesis movie for the GH3, and I looked at it when I was interesting in that camera because I liked the GH2 raw footage...but I don't like the GH3 that much, it looks too digital/video for me.

December 20, 2013 at 11:16AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

+1!
Gene, I'm glad you and I can agree on something for once! :)

December 20, 2013 at 5:54PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Kenneth Merrill

Hmmm.... Distinct lack of charm... Blind faith in an unseen force... Mitch - I'm sorry but I'm not convinced I'm your father. Do you at least have a jewfro and glasses?

............

I think we're all chomping at the bit to see the first knockout footage from this camera - which has to be a good thing for the people at DB. Just hope it's soon!

December 20, 2013 at 6:09PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Don't worry, I'll try to keep 4K out. ;^)

Joking aside, Merry Christmas Kenneth. :-)

December 21, 2013 at 12:13AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

Merry Christmas to you too, man! :)

December 21, 2013 at 1:00AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Kenneth

Alex,
-
If you see this comment please email us at: info@digitalbolex.com
-
And that goes for anyone else too, if you think you can offer something of value we would love to hear from you, especially if you live in the LA area. I can't promise we can work with everyone, but we would love to put the D16 in as many hands as possible.
-
Cause literally everyone that holds it likes it :)

December 20, 2013 at 1:37AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Hi Joe,

Thanks for the offer - but I'm in London. I'm really looking forward to seeing some great footage from this camera - I think you're doing something huge. Maybe pull some strings and get it onto a commercials shoot for a few test shots? The guys I work with over here (mainly Phantom and Alexa shoots) are lighting wizards and really know how to get the very best from a camera. If you get just one shoot like that, I think lots of us would be on the waiting list immediately.

Best of luck with it!

December 20, 2013 at 7:44AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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The Armani commercial strongly reminds me of the next sample that Digital Boelx put on their site, a black and white music video with heavy grading and lots of cuts etc. And guess what? People are complaining they want less processed test footage, more down to the physical level (lattitude, colour etc). Right now, it seems that DB can not only not please everybody, but evidently can't please anybody :-)

December 22, 2013 at 2:30AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

This footage is not conclusive folks. Chillax

December 19, 2013 at 10:27PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Ben

I think the camera is good even if the color grading was a let down. I have never seen 5 second films stuff before and have to say I am not a fan. If they went 30 or even just 15 seconds it might work.

December 20, 2013 at 1:28PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gary

I like the 5 second concept.

December 21, 2013 at 12:09AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

Long time reader of NFS as the destination for so many things I find relevant to myself as a filmmaker. Thanks so much for posting the 5SF compilations and the D16 post. Speaking as one of the few that have actually had hands on use of the camera for just a single shoot we explored more of the functionality and workflow more than the technical aspects of the Bolex. Our goal is always to entertain and tell stories rather than to wow people with fire hosing footage of flowers or showing color charts and scope readout stats. I figured l'd leave that to the professionals that make that their passion, and just put something out there to show how the camera works in a natural outdoor environment with little to no adjustment. Granted the youtube compression does the footage no favors, the image quality during post was impressive and easy to work with, and there's RAW footage out there for people to judge with technical scrutiny. As for Joe and Elle, I can say that they are both very real and passionate people and about the camera as well. I've been seeing the Bolex story unravel since the first words of the kickstarter hit the internet, and seen tons of positive and surprisingly negative response. As with any kickstarter, be it a film, or a product, it takes on many challenges and changes before you see a vision come to completion. They delivered on what they set out to do, besides all the neigh sayers that said it couldn't be done, and that money would be lost, well, their vision became a reality. From a community of filmmakers I'm astounded by the lack of support for filmmakers setting out to make an affordable camera for the operator and enthusiast. All the brands of manufactures that have millions spent on development to withstand the scrutiny of the customer also deliver on their promises, and end up charging you for it. The bolex is in a perfect price range for people that enjoy film making and want a great image without all the issues of the major brands. In time there will be more technical review of the D16 from much more reputable sources than us doing a 10 minute shoot in the front yard for a laugh. Thanks for watching.

December 20, 2013 at 8:18PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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So buying a camera from a non viable and dubious business -and inexperienced people in charge- is what we have to do to prove ourselves, hmm...
No one has a problem with the camera, that is just crazy, it's just another camera. The problem is that naive (they actually confessed it themselves) businessmen/filmmakers are trying to sell a camera to even more naive consumers, through heavy advertising and without any actual products rolling out. Again, I'm sure they will manage to get the camera in people's hands eventually, but the problem with this project, business wise, is that unfortunately is not viable.
Maybe these 100-200 cameras will become a collector's item and eventually the backers will manage to get their money back in 10-20 years :)

December 21, 2013 at 11:07AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Michael

The backers were Kickstarter people and they're getting the cameras now, it seems like.

Is there a huge difference between this and what keeps happening to, say , Black Magic? Have they EVER met a deadline they promised they'd keep?

December 21, 2013 at 3:14PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Muh

I remembered this video that helps make 24 bit 96kHz a little easier to understand, why it's better than 24 bit 48kHz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD4Jx-iGdxo

December 21, 2013 at 11:44PM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Gene

Oh, so ist gear porn time again?

December 22, 2013 at 2:32AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

"It's". Death to spell correction.

December 22, 2013 at 2:33AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Thyl Engelhardt

I guess what I said some time ago was right. This company seems pretty fishy. I guess it will be a BMC 4k take over. #300

December 24, 2013 at 4:57AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Mike

I need details and contact of perfect artist that i can use for my film,please call +2348063931934 f you wanna recommend a friend or your self

December 24, 2013 at 9:48AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Ilori Oluwaseun

please or mail elishailori16@yahoo.com

December 24, 2013 at 9:51AM, Edited September 4, 11:45AM

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Ilori Oluwaseun